The Legend of Lalli and Bishop Henry | Finland Folklore
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- #finland #finnishfolklore #lalli
What a great story! really enjoyed looking at this one! it did escalate a bit quickly however 😂
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So the original story was supposed to show how Christianity is the right choice, but we just usually end story to the part were Lalli gets his brutal revenge. 😂
That's probably true. It was supposed to be a story about "a poor stupid man opposing Christianity and suffering from his actions", but we decided it's better when Lalli kills the bishop! Anyway that's pretty much what we're about anyway. Don't tell us what to do, because we're against it anyway, no matter good or bad. If you decide to commit suicide, put your head in a bucket of water, and drown yourself, that's all you need. That's Sisu. Make a decision and stick with it. :)
But to be honest, of you come to a house and the matron says they have nothing to give you, even if they seem to have it, they're most likely preparing for a long cold winter. when you don't have provisions for winter, you're screwed. So good for lalli, for being angry and taking revenge.
This!
In those times if you didn't have enough food for your family saved up for the winter your family starved to death, sure you could hunt and try to scavenge what frozen berries and edible plants you could find but given that people tended to have large families (as early deaths were pretty common you had to have multiple children to "make sure" that at least one of them would survive to adulthood and be around to take care of you and the household when you got too old to do it) it's very unlikely that you would be able to find enough food that way to last through the whole winter, and given that your closest neighbors were likely almost a days walk away and were themselves in a similar situation even if the bishop's crusading party paid (and given the history of crusaders pillaging half the world I *highly* doubt they didz and yes they were crusaders BTW the church called the missions up north "the northern crusades") the money was basically worthless until spring/summer because they wouldn't be able to find people that would be able to sell enough food and even those who would have some they could part with would have to ask a really high price for it.
So basically the bishop handed Lalli and his family a death sentence, he was willing to let them slowly starve to death, what a horrible "man of god"!
I think it's very important to keep in mind the realities of life in the far north in those times when talking about this story, and when you do that the bishop immediately becomes a cruel and uncaring villain willing to let people starve to death and Lalli a desperate man trying to avenge a great injustice and maybe get some of the stolen food back to give his family slightly better chances of survival... Hell, the bishop sending his men ahead might have been more about securing the stolen goods than anything else, clearly his crusading party was not properly prepared for their travels if they needed to resort to taking food and other goods by force but it really shows the mentality of the bishop and church at the time in general that they were completely okay with taking food by force from people who would starve to death without it.
Since when ever crusaders prepared for their travels with food provisions for the whole darn trip? No they literally took what they needed where ever they went. And that had been done ever since the start of the whole darn way of spreading the religion on the tip of the sword edge. And nope they did not care either if those people they found were christians already or not. When crusades started first - they were franks trying to get just more land from the Germans of what ever those tribes were called back then. It started that early - I think around about the same time when Muslims actually held Spain and Portugal areas - when their reach was at it's widest in west. That is because of their similar way of spreading their religion, by violent claiming of areas and pillaging. Literally what made the first kings of France so to speak, for having defended and defeated them trying to push north. Then If we go to the first crusade - the Emperor of Constantinople (Istanbul) then the head of Easter Orthodox church starts to get his feet burned by Muslims and there are reports of original pilgrims being pestered and attacked on their way to Jerusalem. So he sends a letter to ask for help from his competition really at that time - the Pope in Western Europe. And that man makes a great speech - and suddenly original and armed noble men are heading out to help to keep the Christians safe and take over Jerusalem - where even right then live some few actual Christians along with Jews and Muslims - maybe a bit discriminated against - cause that is how Muslims would rule. Allow the others their religion but not equal standing in society of course being the rulers. So when that huge group of crusaders passed through towns they attack Jews in those towns to kill them and steal their money because many of them had nothing to sell to prepare for the trip. No no, they left empty handed in some short of religious a fit. And then they took what they needed even out of christian settlements. Some never got there - not even to Constantinople at first. Several died obviously, some just stopped going forth and made new settlements where ever they got bored about the traveling. Well the journey lasted 3 years to get all the way - so duh - I guess they had not known the world is that huge. Then at Constantinople the Emperor thought that he will just get aid in form of some men who would be placed under his command - but he has now huge army or people from all walks of life outside of his gates so he is worried and those people have been taking provisions from people around the area for what ever they needed. Never asking if the people they stole it from actually would starve. Of course not - it would have been those the most able to acquire aka steal what they wanted to even stay alive that far. And yea there as even more hardship to wait on their way cause they had still lot to cover to get to Jerusalem. Well about 1/3 would get about there but it was really a huge mass of people almost like entire tribe or something like that on the move. And yes as they did get there in the end and made a desperate attack as they were literally starving by then - and as the area did not have much trees they could make like two attack towers - out of which one managed to gain them the access. The city was heavily fortified but somehow they just got in - idk what happen with the defense given the level of fortifications - and what did they then do? Kill nearly everyone inside the city - all Muslims, all Jews AND loads of Christians if not all of them too - calling them traitors for having lived there. Some where on the way they had forgotten few things. At first the Pope had actually said that who ever goes there to help without intent on stealing and claiming riches - will gain forgiveness from their sins. Well some of the noble men had literally sold their lands back home and thought just to get new holdings in the holy lands - so the idea about not grabbing for wealth went out of the window like the Pope never even uttered the words. And yes - the Pope had made his pretty speech about saving Christians there - but they just removed them too once they got the hold of that place. And if you then remember that it was not just because the Catholic church suddenly wanted to help the very church they had beef with for the old schism about which one of them were the true over all leaders of Christianity. No the Pope and Church had issues with a ton of noblemen in Europe getting into jousting and fighting between each other leading to untimely deaths of Christians - cause the knights would not have had anything else to fight against otherwise. Oh and generally trying to expand their own areas at the cost of others - the same old stuff. So when those Northern Crusades happen - not just in Finland by the way but Baltic's and Poland and all of that area maybe just bit before. The form of the Crusades had already formed this short of a formula from the early Franks spreading their fate on the tip of the swords and would show its true colors even with the first crusade to Jerusalem. They wanted the lands and the glory form the Pope and riches and nope they did not prepare, they just pretty much always would take what they needed and steal all the wealth and food if not freely given. I really wonder if they would even have attempted to pay in all honesty. All though I do find it outrageously funny that they then decided to use a Finnish name for the God - Jumala - when it was a God already. Maybe that is why people think there was lots of Christians already in Finland when it actually was more so spread mainly at south western coastline and possibly the islands for what I remember. All though my school years are long ago so maybe they figured something new since. Regardless - how do the Gods then know which one people prey at or do they take like turns? (Sry, but lol, I have always thought that way of spreading the fate in disguise of old local customs and names but with new content rather funny. But it most certainly was not the original way of Christianity by the way - all those festivities we have now that used to be pagan festivities like Christmas, it would not even exist, had not the first Emperor of Rome to turn to Christian figured to adjust the ways of the original religion a bit.)
"A hippocratic moral teacher decides to force a transaction and gets killed in the process"
Hippocratic?how is bishop related to a father of western medicine? Did you mean hypocrite?
Based on my observations I think for Finns the important part of the story is the heroism of Lalli showing the invader that he can't come to our lands and homes to boss us around. And Lalli did what he had to do no matter what the consequences were.
I've always been weirdly proud of the story of Lalli 'cause I've always seen the story even as a kid as "Do not come to preach at my house about your superior morality all while stealing our shit"- kinda tale. Even though the story is made to be showcasing how Christianity is supposed to be a good thing, I've always seen it as inverse and it warms my cold heart how the most famous conversion story of our country is one where the Bishop is just simply murdered when forcing his views over our traditions.
In school i was taught that Bishop Henry traveled alone and was the victim of the story.
While Kerttu was a liar and sent Lalli to kill the Bishop after willingly giving him food.
I always had a feeling the Bishop barged into the house, ate the food and maybe also got...forceful.. with Kerttu.
It would have explained Lalli's extreme reaction.
Yep, how can you trust even your own nation's education when history is almost always very biased? And I'm Finnish..
I can't fathom how anyone reads the "historical" account of this story and views Lalli as the villain.
Right! how!? 😂
@@IrishinFinland First location where Christianity actually arrived to Finland is in Kalanti. There is a church there obviously. But even before that location - there is an island in front of Uusikaupunki - called Putsaari - where they landed at first. And in that place stands a small chapel called Piilokirkko. Let me tell you it's legend, even if I did mention it passing before.
So when Christianity arrived to Finland at first - it did not really come that very peacefully. Those times are called the Northern Crusades. But the religion would have made some appearance in shores of Finland even before those rather forceful attacks - which may be part of the reason why Lalli too would not take very kindly to the bishop. I mean not just cause he figured his wife was wronged by those people. Besides if you think of it - they have certain measures of goods, but then a large party of people arrive - maybe more than they can afford to take care about paid or not... Well one have to remember that those kind or parties aka crusade groups would not really have been very small now would they have? Well it's hard to know - past is past. But that is certainly not the First place or time for Christinaity to arrive in Finland.
No - I think officially it is considered to be at the town of Kalanti (Uusikaupunki did not exist yet per say, though I think there was a village by other name in very much same location or area). I seen copy of an old map about the area, so I kinda base that info on this about the village - but yea Uki (aka Uusikaupunki, was established few hundred of years later.) And like said, before they arrived to Kalanti, the christian fate had landed to the Finnish archipelago first. Namely on that island, the Putsaari. And a small chapel was raised on that location. But apparently the locals burned set chapel. I don't exactly know why. But there was some short of issue about matters resulting to this. You would have to visit that place, to get one of the little notes detailing this story better.
Anyhow this is the general story of it - once the small chapel (really small enough like one of those tiny barn buildings made out of wood we call an aitta or may bit bigger like a riihi) was burned - the location according to the story would not extinguish. The fire would burn on and on. They could not put it out either. A blue flame would burn there until another a new chapel was built there. And the building standing there today is indeed a tiny wooden structure, very much like a storage building rather than a church, it does not even have a floor. The ground itself is the floor, no other furniture but a few benches if those survive on sides of the walls. A cross on top of the roof is wooden. It looks like the wood has been painted with tar, you know bit brown dark. A small door at front, no windows, made out of logs full of carved names of the visitors, some even from hundreds of years ago. And that is why you are not exactly allowed to draw on the walls yourself - lol. But there is also a tiny grave or memorial yard around the location. Among those is a memorial stone to men lost at sea - and a large rock hill behind the building where one can climb to see all around the area called Kirkkovuori (church mountain) - but it certainly is no mountain just a bit high hill.
Apparently it was easier in the old day for sailors to stop at this tiny chapel - because back then the water level was much higher - as you know Finland is rising constantly out of the sea. But today the closest shore to the sea is very shallow and difficult to access a bay. So people visiting do walk through the island from the other side to get there. As I said, the place is called Piilokirkko (Hidden church). And it is indeed quite 'hidden' even today. There are only rather poor signs past the paths on the island to get there. Shorter walk from behind the island, but far harder to land with boat like I told - I mean on the back side. But that does not mean that people don't visit. It just is maybe more common by those who are familiar with walking and traveling about Finnish islands and those local areas. Our summer house is near there - only few kilometers away. But unfortunately I live in France and due covid can't travel now. Besides I don't have the stability on my own feet to walk in those kind of landscapes - I have mobility issues. Even visiting at the summerhouse is bit of a challenge for me these days. Would otherwise invite to show the place at some point - as have done it before when I was younger and did not have any problem with my feet. And would enjoy to have my French husband to see the place too, even if we aren't exactly that religious. It just is a cool little part of the history.
That said it is nice place to go to, not something amazing - but pretty island. But if you ever make that trip there - wear some long pants. Stick them into your socks and have boots as well as a good jacket which will protect your skin. Oh and take tick spray and use plenty of it - as well as looking through all areas of your bare skin later - not taking the clothes you had on inside before shaking and throwing them directly into wash. The area has very little human traffic - so there are unfortunately loads of ticks it being rather south and winters not being cold enough anymore to kill those little pests. (All thanks to global warming, dam it.) In fact living in Finland these days it would be smart to have vaccination against lymesdisease because of the ticks. It shows up as a red ring expanding around the tick bite area of your skin if one gets that. And takes like half year of antibiotics to get rid of, so I am serious in this warning. Won't kill you though these days when noticed early enough. Well I am not that scared of it, have the vaccination and will have it for rest of my family too when we move back to Finland in few years. It is two-part vaccination, caused no issues for me.
Oh and yes, back then Finnish areas were very much so tribal areas. So when missionaries arrived to different places - lol - it was always the first time. ^^
Several scholars believe that the legend is not historical at all. Christianization began in Finland much earlier and therefore Henrik and king Erik would have arrived in 1150 to baptize Christians again Christians. And the earliest mentions of Henrik are only from the end of the 13th century, which is why the bishop's historicity has been heavily questioned because there is no any evidence of Henrik's existence.
@@danielmalinen6337 Interesting question. But 1150 swedes were with pope and had own bishob who propably saw any than catholics as pagans. Its propable that there is east roman church after volga trade and loot-companies at some degree. Also german-roman emperium at other side of finlands bay had some influence also. But there is practically no preswede history research at finland.
@@riippumatonlinja sweduits made sweden? pushed through denmark to southern "sweden" then displaced finns and norwegians
The only version I knew of is that Lalli kills the guy and takes his stuff for the transgression, that's it. :D
The ending is not considered canon. You can stop the story at the killing of the bishop! :D
What a coincidence, that I saw this vid here. I visited lake köyliönjärvi day before yesterday. Beatiful lake. It has the Köyliö church in the middle in a small Island. I also passed Lalli's hidingplace, a real out there middle of dark woods place and Lalli's stone just beside one road on the trip. All within in 50km of my home. Super nice trip. Rode it with my honda monkey 125.
It was time when we here in Finland did't know yet it is normal way bishops and priest to act like bishop did. Take, not pay.
Yeah, crazy to think that just because you believe in your deity you can act however you want without consequences. TLDR; Bishop Henrik's first (and last) cultural exchange didn't end very well...
Sounds like somebody changed the story when Lalli suddenly couldn't take the hat or ring off, as if some greater power was affecting him in a way that would invoke fear in finns who didn't want christianity.
I guess it's obvious that some kind of guy called Lalli existed and he killed this guy, but the rest sounds like some mythological folklore. It's likely Swedes and/or clergy tried to conjure some horrible fate to Lalli, so people would be afraid and refrain from attacking "holy men". There is dispute if he left payment or not. Most seem to think he did not do that. Its probable Lalli would say no, since that would give him better justification to killing the bishop. However, its likely those who side with the church said he paid, because the church would not like to associate themselves with thieves. One of those stories we will never know for sure what really happened :)
Wether they paid or not is actually sort of besides the point, in those times that far up north of you didn't have enough provisions to last through the winter you died, buying new provisions would have been insanely expensive and it very well could have been that the payment would not have been anywhere near enough to buy enough provisions to last through the winter for Lalli's family so the crusaders (that's what they were, the church at the time called their trips up north "the northern crusades") basically took not only the food etc Lalli's family had put aside for taking care of guests but also the family's own food etc meant to last through the winter.
So basically they forced Lalli into a situation where he would have to hunt and scavenge all day everyday all through the winter to have any hope for him and his family to make it through the winter alive, so his anger was more than understandable, I think the murder itself was more about the Bishop sending his retinue away with all the stolen provisions they had left than anything else, when Lalli saw that he wasn't getting the stolen items back (things taken without permission or with force even if paid for are still stolen IMHO) he took revenge against the leader of the crusading company, the bishop.
When people talk about this story they often forget to consider the harsh realities of life up north during the winter in those times, during the winter the only food you could get was what little you were able to hunt or maybe scavenge some frozen berries etc, not enough to survive on especially if you have more than just yourself to feed, having stores of grain, potatoes, hay etc for the animals, etc etc was a matter of life and death, basically the bishop gave Lalli's family a death sentence when taking their food so frankly I think he more than deserved his fate, he was willing to let Lalli and his family to slowly starve to death so he was a truly horrible person.
I might not be entirely impartial though given that I'm Finnish, and an atheist, but I think I've made a pretty sound logical argument for why Lalli's actions were more than understandable and why the bishop and his men were the true villains of the story no matter whether that paid for the goods or not, and I really really doubt they paid given the history of crusaders and their behaviour, crusaders pillaged half the world after all in the name of their god...
I heard this story from a priest, when I was a child. In that version Lalli's wife converted/honored the bishop, so she gave the stuff willingly for free. Lalli didn't believe in God, so he was angry.
Yeah, sure, the wife gave the stuff for free out of her own will *sarcasm *
Way to go Lalli!
There is so many interesting stories, alot has happened around this country. Like in the year 536.. winter lasted 10 years.. Thats a long winter :D
Mini Ice-age
That bishop had it comming
Nice one! This is one of my favourite legends. Another, more trollish version can be found on my channel, hehe.
Likely the bishop didn't wear a bishop's hat on this trip though, but it does make a nice story.
I love this stuff man because the history and mythology is one of my favorite things in life :D
#Irishinfinland
Thank you very much Markus!
It's actually really cool to hear someone make a video about this story, because I'm actually named after bishop Henrik. I also own a book about it. (His name is actually Henrik in Finnish mythology btw. It kinda varies in other languages. Dunno what his original name was. Also in the version I heard as a kid henrik was supposed to come from sweden.)
Ah that's awesome! Yeah it's fascinating to see all the versions of this story, I did choose the basic version though 🤦🏼♂️ kind of wish I could redo this video
There is a song "Kolmen konstin timpermanni" by Erkki Liikanen. It tells a funny version what REALLY happened. Lalli was ice fishing. The bishop had never seen anything like that. When Lalli got a huge pike, the bishop went too close to see, and when Lalli was to hit the pike in the head with an axe, not the blade side but the opposite side, 'hamara' in Finnish, the bishop's bold head was in the way, and that's how the bishop died, a mere accident. I think the song won the
'Syksyn sävel' song competition which was hugely popular competition I guess in 1970's, 1980's maybe 1990's. I think I heard they might bring Syksyn sävel back.
A bit of continuation to the story: After Lalli had killed Bishop Henry (or Pyhä Henrik in finnish (Saint Henrik)), the soldiers put him on an ox cart. Legend says that when the oxes are too tired to carry on, there would be construced a church. The Oxes halted in the municipality of Nousiainen, near Turku. In the stories I have heard, the oxes stopped in the village of Repola in Nousianen, but the church was built near the river of Hirvijoki. In Repola there is a wooden cross to mark the place where the ox cart halted. Also in the church of Nousiainen is the sarcophagus of Bishop Henry although the remains are in the cathedral of Turku.
The coat of arms of Nousiainen which you showed in the video shows Bishop Henry stomping on Lalli with the axe on his hand
Bit of messy storytelling but I hope you get the hang of it 😅
Thank you for the context on this story!!
There’s a really cool choir piece about this story written by Estonian composer Vejlo Tormis: Piispa ja Pakana. In the piece, the composer depicts the story of Henry and Lalli through surviving texts in Latin, English, and Finnish. It’s a super cool piece of music.
My Grandfather and great grandfather came over with the Lalli name which was changed to Hiipakka when they arrived in the USA. So while researching this name Lalli I came across this story. I thought it a lark at the time and was telling the story to my 80 year old Dad. He got quiet and when I was done He said he heard that story when he was young and that Lalli was supposedly a relative of ours.
The story of Lalli actually ends with him killing the bishop, the additions after that are Christian propaganda.
Here’s another historical character to do a video on: Jaakko Ilkka, the leader of the Cudgel War.
Many people who have roots in South Ostrobothnia can trace genealogy to him. (He is named in my family tree as a direct ancestor.)
Just to give you some historical context: Lalli was a isäntä, meaning very wealthy local man, who more than likely was a member of local Käräjät, meeting which formed the law and also named the guardian of that law. If and when "bishop" Henry tried to get cash from the locals for his mission and church, not only from Lalli, he was breaking the law. Lalli, most like acting in the role of Vallesmanni/Vallasmanni = sheriff, captured this criminal and executed him according to the laws of that time. Henry is not named in Vatican scripts at that time circa 1150 AD so he must have been a missionary, not a real bishop. After he was killed around 1150 the next bishop of Finland is mentioned by the Vatican in 1191 when he was beaten and left to some tiny rock island to die. Pope complains that no one wants to be the bishop of the Finns because it means more than likely a martyrdom than riches and power. Christensen says in his book (Baltic Crusades, Christensen) that before the early 1200's Sweden nor the Church had no power even in the Turku region, not to mention the rest of the land.
Thanks man! You did it!
the version i was told has a few differing details. i was told that the bishop indeed did not make any payments and threatened lalli's wife with all kinds of punishments before just taking the stuff and leaving. after killing the bishop lalli tried to take the expensive looking ring from his finger. after attempting to remove the ring, lalli decides to just cut the finger off. when the ring still refused to depart from the bishop's bloody finger, lalli just threw the whole finger away and left for home. it is said that the finger, being that of a holy man, did not rot even after years had passed
this is the version i heard in school from a 60-something-year-old lady who recited it from memory
Check out the story of Katumajärvi (Lake of Regret)
Will do!
Faaaaak. It has been taken out! 😔 well you can get some of it by listening Pain Confessor-Lake of Regret
Curious thing with the legend however is that neither a catholic cleric or a bishop by the name of Henrik has been found anywhere from the church records either in Sweden or England and especially not one that has been sent to far distant ultima thule to babtise pagans.
It's propably a made up story based on some event that took place someone else.
Yep. And the legend only started circulating about a hundred years after the supposed fact, so this story is most likely just Catholic propaganda of the time made up to combat the pressure from the Orthodox church expanding from the east.
The thing is.
Christians wanted to Martyr Henry, but also accidentally Martyred Lalli as well.
Henry, the bishop who "paid" for supplies and was murdered in cold blood.
Lalli, who bravely faced oppression from foreign culture and was wrongfully punished.
And people wonder why Finns are Christians only on paper.
One version of the story is, Bishop Henrik took benefits of the ladies of the house. Lalli came home and heard about what happened. So he chased henrik on the lake Köyliö ice and killed him with an axe.
Lake is in my neighborhood. It is not very large so Lalli had to get bishop almost firsthand.
Think about risk and task compared to grass value.
I think you would be intrested of the legend of Kirmukarmu. Kirmu was warlord of Häme region in 11th century. Like Lalli, he didn't like much christians either. There is a folk metal song of him, very old style finnish lyrics, but translation can be found also in english. At least in one yt-video's comment section: Korpiklaani - Vesilahden veräjillä
There is bishop henrys church in Nousiainen finland. One of the oldest rock churches. Where I think he is suposed to Be buried?. I was born in the "Village"
This thing happened, but a lot of this story is not true. However a bishop was killed by Lalli, because they stole food and those people mostly wanted Finnish people to pay taxes to "holy Rome". The sacred jewelry of this bishop were found in Finland. This is not a legend. Lalli really took the life of this man of crusade.
I called my cat Lalli. But after the Stand Still, Stay Silent character
I'm pretty sure that character was named after the original Lalli too... :)
@@House_of_Caine probably
Made a few axe restorations, and i usually engrave the helve with rather visible "201" to comemmorate Lalli, and kinda remember that men should not bow down like dogs to any institutes like churches that aim to grab the lands, taxes etc.
If you like stories about Finnish assassins, one of the most notorious is Eugen Schauman. Check him out.
So wait, this guy Lalli trounced a group of christians, killing the bishop with an axe. But later he's cornered by a group of mice and is apparently so frightened by them he climbs a tree, falls in a lake and drowns? Does anyone else think the second half of this story might have been tacked on by angry christians?
Or angry Englishmen?
COWBOYS TED!
Add the story of Pekka Vesainen. He was a real bad ass Finn. ( From there Oulu area)
Well, to be honest. Lalli did not do ANYHTING a Finn from that same (or possibly any) area of Finland would not have done, if anyone forced his way into a man's house and helped himself to his victuals by force when the owner was away. If you did that in any part of Pohjanmaa even today, the outcome might well be the same (though a gun might be used, we have made some progress after all)
Wouldn't expect any less tbh
A more interesting and true story is the English in Finland during the Crimean war, some killing on both sides.
czcams.com/video/_8oPnaMx-_w/video.html was it that by any chance?
Symbols of the false knowledge and power leads to suffering and to death of a holder.
My moms name is Mullally
It is not known about these legends that whether they are true, but probably not. In Finland is also known an interesting legend about Tavastian Chief Kirmukarmu and the missionary Hunnun-Herra, which is said to have taken place at the same time as the story of Lalli and Henrik. In this legend, the Latin-speaking missionary Hunnun-Herra arrives from the east but Chief Kirmukarmu doesn't like him, so Kirmukarmu binds the missionary to a tree and tears his hands off. However, the residents of Vesilahti like this guest so they release and healing him. Later, Kirmukarmu organize the war against Novgorod, but lost this because he had treated the Hunnun-Herra so badly.
The Ö is close to what the U sounds in the English word "fur" and I think a fair approximation of Ä is what the "ea" sounds in the Irish word "fear".
The Y is harder to explain, but I will try. Compare the tongue position for the A in the English word "far" and Irish "fear". Try to say "fool" with the tongue in front like that and you should be close to Y. Finnish is a rare case in that we mark the Ü sound with Y.
Of course these are rough approximations based on my lingual capabilities which are rather restricted, as I don't pronounce my English too well and I have inly a weak grasp of how Irish sounds, although I attempted to study some of it years ago.
Ä is easier explained as the sound of a in e.g. hat, cat, that, mat etc.
@@timoterava7108 that is possibly closer, but may also vary by dialect in either language. I tried to explain it that way some years ago only to find that the person used a very Finnish A sound for cat and hat etc.
You should definitely check out the story of Kirmukarmu who supposedly was a tavastian warlord at the early 13th century. There's pretty grim shit embedded to his story.
The story about drowning in a pond during winter when even the large lake was frozen enough to bear the weight of a horse and a retinue of people sounds a bit unrealistic. It is a legend, but that just seems like something the christians wanted to emphasize for religious reasons. On top of the magical hat and ring.
I'm at least a deist but I wonder about the religions which claim they are nothing but the truth and as such try to control every move in our lives.
That's why I understand the anger that the conversion may have roused: while there are good things in Christianity, there's a massive amount of hypocrisy as well (as proven by schools of native Canadians as the latest example).
i feel that Lalli might be a finnish version of main character of "Braveheart".
When the Baptists came by Mattila's.
To flesh things out a bit more, Bishop Henry was sent to Sweden to ostensibly become the Archbishop of Uppsala, so he was in Finland in service to the Sweden, not operating in any capacity for England.
Uppsala's in Sweden. Don't know how good a churchman Henry might have been, but his geography was shockingly bad.
can you do simple history of ireland? it's awesome it hasnt been assimilated
Awh dude that's been on my to do list for aaaaaages, A simple version I think is just too difficult 😭 I will just have to try one day and see how I get on!
@@IrishinFinland yea i guess there's no way to make it simple. i'm just interested in how ireland is still its own country, being next to britain etc. how about just doing *only* from the aspect of independence?
@@IrishinFinland I'd absolutely watch a series of it, either historical or just a bunch of cool, folklory tidbits.
Novel series by Paula Havaste: Maan vihat, veden vihat, tuulen vihat etc. tells you the real story. Or as a real story as it gets. Everyone should read them.
lalli taitaa olla symboli suamalaiselle mielelle ku kristinusko tänne saapui. mä tykkään siitä mitä tää oli ennen mutta mä tykkään siitä mitä tää on myös nykyäänkin. ihminen luottaa aina luojaansa, suomessa se oli joskus paljon vahvempi ku nykyään.
4:51 Coolio
Can't find where someone said he was hanged. Would be more credible.
as true as Isontalon Antti ja Rannanjärvi
Story of Lalli is more of the persuverance of the pagan fait. Some dude in a fancy hat comes here to tell us what to belive. OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
I think how I was told about it was that the bishop came and raided Lallis house and converted his wife to christianity and that made Lalli go berserk.
Here is an old story, even most finnish people don't 'remember; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyenschantz Nyenschantz, Nevanlinna in finnish, is a ancient finnish city that existed in the place of current St. Petersburg. Folklore?
Why is the catholic church in Helsinki called ”Saint Henry’s Church” ?
Cowboys Ted, They're a bunch of cowboys!
It's an apocryphal story, written far later than it supposedly happened. What is true though is that it WAS written down, and that's the interesting part. Why was it written down? Most probably for propaganda purposes. The whole "first crusade to Finland"-story is very much propaganda. Most likely for the benefit and status of later relatives of the Swedish king Eric the Holy. They tried to canonize him within the Catholic church, but it never reached that level. There are no actual written accounts of these happenings from the time they supposedly happened. Everything is written much later.
That's not to say it didn't happen, but the whole ordeal was most probably made much more dramatic than it actually was. Southwestern Finland (Finland Proper) had contacts to the Swedish side long before a crusade was supposed to have happened. Some people might have been allied to the kings on the Swedish side from time to time. We tend look at the world from a thousand years ago through anachronistic glasses, and implement our reality and knowledge on people who knew nothing about the nations of today.
Moral of the story: Keep your dirty hands off of a Finn's wife or catch an axe
Actually Lalli might have killed German missionary Heinrich instead. 🤷♀️
l don't dislike England or English; quite the opposite, l have always liked them. But regarding Lalli, l have long felt a grudging admiration for him; l am obviously influenced by my wonderful Finnish teacher in (Swedish-language) high school, a Finnish nationalist, who told the students that the Swedes, when they Christianized Finland, robbed, raped and killed many Finns. As somebody who harbors a deep resentment for the variants of monotheism, l cannot help but admire Lalli, truly one of the greatest Finns ever!
You've come to the wrong place then for English admiration I'm afraid
They both had very chubby fingers.
This story might be "fixed"by churh lesson is pagan cant beat churh? And Juoppo lalli.. its alcoholic or alcoholic lalli..
I don't recall ever hearing what happened to Lalli, but that scalp thing and finger ripping off sounds like ridiculous nonsense to me.
Oh absolutely, that's the church version 😂
@@IrishinFinland I wonder if something like that is along the lines on how people get that "st." on their name? IIRC at one point Finnish immigrants in USA made up their own saint because Irish were bragging with their own.
I remember hearing the story that The Bishop slept with Lallis wife, and when Lalli came home and heard about it he flipped and went in to a pursuit. Did you know Lalli also means Bear, large man and giant.
The bishop and his men probably forced themselves on her after she refused them, and then went on to steal whatever they wanted from his house. Typical Catholic behavior.
A brave Finn striking back at the evil, thieving Catholic church. What's there not to love? After the deed was done, Lalli spat at Henry's dead corpse and called it a day. He didn't tear his own finger off and drown in a pond and whatnot. That's just a load of Christian propaganda BS.
dont be christophobic