Casting sorbitol rocket fuel.
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- čas přidán 4. 11. 2021
- This is an updated tutorial on casting sugar fuel. I will be casting sorbitol using an induction plate and 3D printed casting tools. The BATES grains are for a 38mm Super G rocket motor.
Please show your support and buy me a coffee, thanks!
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Induction cooktop.
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Induction pan with spout, similar to mine.
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Digital cooking scale up to 30 lbs.
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Digital scale small.
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Sorbitol from Amazon.
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Sorbitol source, cheaper but requires shipping. Share with friends :)
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Royality free music from Motion Array.
Making rocket fuel may be hazardous to you and your surroundings. Always be prepared with a fire extinguisher and make fuel away from your home or flammable materials.
It may not be legal in your area to make rocket fuel or purchase the materials. I assume no responsibility for the content of this video. - Věda a technologie
Long time watcher, never commented…
I appreciate all you show me.
Show me how to make ejection charge, simple to complex.
Checking in from Texas
Single use motors come with the ejection charge built in and some are adjustable for delay. Aerotech reloadable motors ship with a small vial of BP but I don't think LOKI motors are supplied with it. For dual deploy you must supply the BP charge. At this time in December of 2021 traditional 4f black powder is unavailable because GOEX shut down production. I think imported BP will be available next year. When supplies resume I will make a video on setting up an ejection charge for a high power rocket. I hope that helps and don't forget to subscribe!
Yay! Thanks sir, with the help of your KNSB motor tutorial I can finally fly my first rocket 'korolev' by the end of the year.
Awesome! I like how you named your rocket after a Russian scientist responsible for the first human spaceflight!
@@TheRocketeer thanks a lot sir for the compliment
Hello There, I am making a KNSB Motor also! For School!
@@krishnannarayanan8819 heyo!
Thank you very much kind man. I am using this in my STEM Capstone class for a new rocket design. God Bless. - Me
Great work. Thanks 😊
Thanks!
Wow. Good useage for 3-d printing for one's equipment I think!
greatly appreciate the explanation! been doing succesful small scale tests with this fuel, planning on using it on an rc rocket car next year (hopefully)
I am happy you found it helpful. Good luck with your rocket car!
@@TheRocketeer cheers, thanks mate!
Just found your channel and I have to say that you speak well, you teach well and I'm looking forward to learning more!
Wow, I didn't know if you were still out there. Welcome back!
You were the inspiration for building my first rocket motor with flexi-fuel. I adopted your no nonsense "WizzBang" style of clear instruction to build the CZcams channel!
If you have made any progress on the delay grain then please share your results. I look forward to any comments you may have. On the "About" tab you will find my email address.
Thanks for your kind comments, lots more fun stuff to come!
@@TheRocketeer I guess we all have our inspirations...RocketmanBKK and Dan Polino were mine. I also had the privilege of corresponding with Jimmy Yawn, and because of him I was able to perfect and make safe my built in delay grains.
I'd like to say that I could make a CZcams video about those delay grain bulk heads, but it may be a while...I am still building my house and there is a ton of competing demands on my time.
For now, I'll just enjoy watching your progress. Thanks for reaching out!
Love from India🇮🇳🇮🇳
You can avoid having to trim bevels on your grain ends by using a tapered end cap and compression disk.
Also, KNSB propellant grains can be used 24 hours after casting (I've even flown ones in 4" motors after 12 hours)
I agree that a taper is a better solution. I made new casting tools out of acetal and I plan on cutting a taper for each end. That is as soon as this mid 20°F weather passes and my lathe thaws out!
Good to know that 24 hours is enough for sorbitol. Thanks for your comment.
Thanks
Thanks for the donation!!
Nice work! You really have a good procedure and explain it very well. I appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos and that you share this with us. Really wanted to see that burn test you mentioned with your excess fuel.
Now you have me thinking. I should put all the excess fuel in a coffee can and light it up.
Love your videos been watching most of the day on the 3d print are you selling the files or can I download them somewhere man I have looked at so many videos on making rcandy sugar rockets but non have put them in a rocket kit so I have been looking for you along time
Hey Chris, I am glad you found me! Please like and comment on videos, it helps others to discover the channel.
The 3D print files are listed for the PVC nozzle in another video but not for the casting tools. I don't have a 3D printer but the casting tools are very basic. I will check into posting the files. I have used common washers in the flexi-fuel video. I use plastic from a cutting board and mill them on a mini lathe for 54mm motors.
I built a dual deploy rocket just for 1" PVC motors called "Candy Magic" but ran out of time to get it in the air and now winter is here. You can look for it in the spring. Stay tuned, I will have more videos on sugar fuel and PVC motors soon!
Curious- have you or anyone else experimented with adding 1-2% burning rate modifiers to KNO3 or whatever your oxidizer blend is? From my understanding zinc and copper nitrites have been used for this. From the patent data these catalysts were being tested with AN and AP based oxidizers, and were giving 30-40% increased specific impulse, don't see why it wouldn't work with KNO3.
Potassium nitrate is not as strong of an oxidizer compared to ammonium perchlorate or potassium perchlorate and therefore it does not burn as hot. Ammonium nitrate usually needs magnesium to perform well. In other words potassium nitrate will not burn hot enough to take advantage of zinc. I have had some success with aluminum and magnesium in sugar fuels but I have found it is difficult to control burn rate. I have not had any success with RIO as well.
This summer I hope to test magnalium, a blend of aluminum and magnesium. I think this combination holds promise at around 5 - 10%. I have not tried any copper combinations. Testing unknown combinations usually causes a loss of hardware and that is something I need to limit.
Go to my home page and scroll through some of my previous tests with metal powders. CZcams.com/TheRocketeer
Powdering the potassium chloride will greatly improve the propellant since it doesn't melt. The finer particles will disperse better.
It is true that grinding the potassium nitrate will make the fuel burn faster. The difference is not that great from granulated oxidizer and it will make the fuel more difficult to cast. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you!
But I have a question. Do you add water when you are melting the propellant?
There is no need to add water, that will only reduce the thrust.
I love your videos so informative. I want to make some 29mm casting. Would everything be the same just smaller tubes. I love the 3d printed jigs, where might I be able to get a set for the 29mm? oh the coring size for 29mm?
No luck finding a 29mm snap ring case. So on to bigger things like a 38mm one. Oh and a new rocket darn :) for the said 38mm case. still looking for casting tools like you gave.
It is easier to make 38mm grains anyway, a 4-grain 480 case from Loki makes a good H-200 motor. I don't offer the 3d printed casting tools yet but it shouldn't be too hard to find someone to make them for you.
@@TheRocketeer Woops typo I meant have and not gave. When my tubes get here, I will take them to the big box store and see what i can find and or make to fit them :).
Is the week set time necessary? I casted some 1in grains yesterday and the are very solid already
There are several factors that affect the amount of time for grais to set up. I suggest allowing at least another day. Changes take place that you can not see.
INDUCTION hot plates will only work with cookware that is MAGNETIC..
Hey gotta a stupid question , but I gotta ask it. What is the ideal length for your grains? I have never purchased an aerotech grain, so I really have no idea what is the actual grain length. I just picked 1 3/4 inch (29mm diameter) along with a 5/16th coring tool. Would all the grains be the same length no matter the diameter?.. i.e. 24mm 29mm 34mm etc. I realize that the core diameter will change with each different diameter grain., but the lengths i am not sure of. I purchased some cesaroni 29mm casings and found some nozzles at another company. Get my O-rings at the hardware store in town and cap the cesaroni casings with about a centimeter slow cure (24 hour) epoxy. I like flying electronic ejection systems so delay charges are well beyond my knowledge.
This is a very good question so let's take a look at it.
Grain length is usually around 1.50 times the diameter of the grain. A 38mm grain is around 1.50 inches, multiply that by 1.50 and you will get 2.25". For 54mm diameter grain I use 3.25" long BATES grains. In your case a 29mm motor would use a 1 3/4" grain. The fuel length will be determined by the case length. All the grain lengths are usually about the same unless a very long case is used. I don't worry too much about grains being the exact same length.
For my 1,200 LOKI style case I sometimes use 4x grains (2 3/8) instead of three to lift a heavy rocket. Longer cases will give more options.
I use a 1/2" core for 38mm and a 5/8 core for 54mm motors. I think a 5/16 core should work fine.
Electronic ejection is the best option for sugar motors. You are on the right track, press on!
how do you like this fuel compared to flexi fuel?
The reason i like this fuel is because it melts at a lower temp and is a little bit safer than using sugar
I have a question. I'm new to homemade sugar rockets and have been experimenting with different motor bodies. Cardboard tubing, PVC, and Bamboo which didn't work, it cracked when compressing my mixture of fuel.
Last night I came up with a possibly Great idea for a rocket engine. A thick, but lite aluminum bottle that tapers. I haven't cooked rocket fuel, only in powder form.
After I am finished compressing propellent, I use a appropriate diameter masonry drill bit to drill out the core . I think using this aluminum bottle will work . My only concern is the take off weight . Any input you can share ?
Thin aluminum melts quickly when heated to extreme temperatures.
When starting out making sugar motors I always suggest begining with something that works and then experiment from there. I have many videos on how to make fuel and rocket motors. Have fun and stay safe!
www.youtube.com/@TheRocketeer/videos
does the kno3 need to be ground down before mixing? Or is granulated okay?
I use granulated and it works fine for me.
Thanks u my teacher ..
Question :
What is the propellant used in ballistic missiles? ( solid fuel )
I don't know but the space shuttle primary propellants were ammonium perchlorate (oxidizer) and atomized aluminum powder (fuel).
@@TheRocketeer The grain is HTPB hydroxal terminated poly butidyne. You can make a low smoke design by eliminating the Al. Slow down the burn rate by adding ferric oxide.
The shuttle SRBs and SLS uses PBAN and some rockets use HTPB as the binder/fuel with AP and Al
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutadiene_acrylonitrile
I just wanna ask, how are the coring tool size and the casting size relate? how large is the diameter of my core, and how large is outer diameter if it says "38mm"??
A 38mm sugar motor has a 1/2 core. The motor consist of a casting tube that has a 1/2" core that fits inside a thermal tube that protects the case from excessive heat. The casting tube and thermal tube slide into a 38mm motor case. The tube set can be purchased through Loki or Always Ready Rocketry. I hope that helps.
Hello. Which are the ratio between external and internal diameter, and the recommended length of the block? Thanks in advance.
The casting base extends about 1/4" into the casting tube. I use a 1/2" mandrel to make the core. I hope that answers your question.
Where do you buy aluminum coring tools?
Aluminum rod can be purchased at home improvement stores like Home Depot. It is also available from Grainger or Amazon.
sir. question. what is the strongest rocket fuel for producing thrust? thank you .
Any fuel that doesn't blow up the rocket :)
I am not able to find sorbitol around my place, no online retailers either, have been using sugar, difficulty is Sugar gets extremely hard to work with as soon as it cools down even a little bit
Using a handheld hack-saw to cut the excess from ends of fuel grains, it's like sawing a piece of rock that also ruins the blade.
Have you tried casting flexi-fuel? Take a look at this video from my channel.
czcams.com/video/KZQ-cVx4Mkw/video.html
My thoughts on Rcandy.
czcams.com/video/OvtFxdWNrp0/video.html
Make your own corn syrup!
czcams.com/video/QhK7e-v7rxk/video.html
Make it like thick syrup.
Let me know if any of the soulutions work out for you. I know other countries do not use Karo or corn syrup.
You could also try dextrose based fuel, which is labelled as "Glucose D" and available almost everywhere.
what if you need to have an ejection charge
The Loki cases have an ejection charge bulkhead or better yet use an altimeter with apogee deployment.
What is ratio of KNO³ and Sorbitol?
Sugar fuels use a 65/35 ratio of Kno3 to sorbitol.
Why would you do it this way and not intimately mix the KNO3 and sorbitol before hand when it’s dry?
Adding the potassium nitrate later enables quick dissolution of any clumps in the sorbitol. As the sorbitol melts, it envelops the oxidizer particles, facilitating intimate contact. This is why melted fuel is superior to dry pressed. It's important to note that potassium nitrate does not melt at the temperatures used for casting.
To visually confirm thorough mixing, consider adding a few drops of food coloring to the mixture. This will demonstrate that the fuel blends easily and thoroughly.
@@TheRocketeer That's not what I'm saying. I know melted is better, but why wouldn't you intimately mix the sorbitol and KNO3 before heating (ball milling) so the suspension is better mixed when the sorbitol does melt and envelop it? Wouldn't that be better than just spooning it in?
I have done it both ways with the same results. It is not necessary to premix because the propellant is a liquid.@@WildernessMedic
@@TheRocketeer Well that saves a lot of time. Thanks.
sir is there formula to calculate diameter of core according to our size of our pipe
This is a link to a website that will calculate motor design. meteor.open-sky.fr/
I made a video on how to use it. czcams.com/video/gdD1B3Ki14c/video.html
Good luck and keep a great distance from any motor test!!
Sir can you tell me what is the diameter of that aluminium rod used to make the core of rocket motor
It is 1/2" or 12 - 13mm.
@@TheRocketeer sir is there formula to calculate according to our size of our pipe
What is the material on the scale?
That is leftover fuel from a previous casting. I test them for burn time or melt the propellant in the next batch.
Have you used iron oxide? 3% has good results.
I have not had any luck with RIO at 2% as documented in a previous video. Others have said it works. I am going to try again this year with an accurate digital scale. Thanks for your comment.
I don’t have access to a 3D printer. Would you consider making a set for me for sale??? By students will be making sugar motors during the spring semester.
At this time I don't own a 3d printer but I have a friend that really likes to use his :)
You can purchase casting supplies from the following vendors:
plasticrocketparts.com/
www.rocketsaway.com/
Check to make sure the parts fit your application or email the vendors.
why you dont add ironoxyde powder? it will incrase the burn speed alot. 100g of your fuel +1g Fe2O3
This is a very good question and one that comes up fairly often.
You are correct that adding red iron oxide (RIO) at 1% will increase the burn rate. Adding RIO will not boost the specific impulse or amount of energy produced by the fuel by very much.
There are other ways to increase the burn rate without adding anything else. Increasing the number of grains in a motor or the core diameter and using a smaller nozzle will accomplish the same thing.
There can be advantages to using a slower burning fuel such as adding more fuel and allowing longer motors to be made without erosive burning.
I hope to produce a video on this subject in the summer.
@@TheRocketeer You melt the fuel in an pan wouldnt an oil bath work too. we call it here an Simmer pan it has an chamber with water (instead of water you can fill oil in)and so the inside doesnt rise above the boiling point of the oil .
@@Preyhawk81 Yes, a simmer pan should work well for you. Good luck and stay safe!
Don't you need a conical shaped clay nozzle? I made rocket motors like this in the late 50's with ZnS and KNO3 sugar and a little dextrin as a binder fuel. The spindle had the proper shape for the charge and also for the clay nozzle. Mix the Zn and S with acetone and pour it in the tube around the spindle.
The BATES grains go into an aluminum snap ring motor with a graphite nozzle from Loki research. I have only seen one video of a Zn + S motor and it was all out crazy, so much flame and sparks!
I don’t understand how your fuel remains white. I’m following the same directions as you and I cannot get the sorbitol to melt and remain white.
Mixing propellant is an art and science. Don't be too concerned if the fuel turns out to be a light tan. Heating the sugar too fast will cause it to turn darker.
Heat the sorbitol slowly and try not to go over 250°F for very long. Hold it at temp for at least 1 minute or longer if it takes an excessive amount of time to set. Sometimes impurities in the potassium nitrate will cause it to turn darker and not much can be done about that other than changing vendors. The fuel will burn just fine.
Potassium nitrate that I use.www.seedranch.com/Potassium-Nitrate-Powder-KNO3-Saltpeter-p/kno3-powder-5.htm
Sorbitol melts at 203 F. Cooktops are not super precise when it comes to heating, some areas will be hotter and some cooler. Melt all of your sorbitol at the lowest possible temperature setting and only then increase the temperature while stirring until the viscosity is low enough to pour. I usually pour at around 220-225; Increased heat and time will gradually darken the mix as will impurities in the KNO3. Under no circumstances should you ever use an open flame or electric heating element cooktop...that's how fires start.
How do I become a Rocketeer? Were do I start and who do I talk to?
To find other Rocketeers go to the Tripoli or NAR website and look for a club near you. Tripoli L2 will allow sugar launches while NAR is commercial motors only.
Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA)can be found here.
www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=225&club_id=795696
List of clubs: www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=225&club_id=795696&mt=None
National Association of Rocketry (NAR)
www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/nar-club-locator/
Attend a launch and ask questions, everyone starts somewhere.
Good luck and have fun!
Do you know if anyone has successfully made a solid rocket without an external case? Basically the solid fuel is strong enough burn completely while still maintaining a (mostly) downward thrust. If the rocket simply went up and turned into vapors and dust, I could skip the complexity of parachutes. :-) I tried searching to see if someone had made rockets that were 100% solid fuel, but only found a few references to weaponry, not hobbyist rocketry.
Sounds fun but I have no idea how it would work.
I was testing various rocket fuel mixtures while I was in college. This was back before the internet (late 1980s) so I was guessing about everything. I used latex with an oxidizer as my fuel. I had spread some of some aluminum foil to let it dry. Once the fuel was dry, I tested it by lighting it on fire. The edge of the fuel started to burn and the piece of fuel started to spin and then levitate into the air. The fuel vanished into nothing after reaching the height of about eight feet. It took a couple seconds to reach the eight foot height. It was a very surreal experience. The piece of fuel taking flight in a relatively controlled way, seemed magical to me. I know this isn't what you were looking for but technically, the fuel flew on its own.
I'm not sure if I could reproduce this result if I tried but I think the spinning of the fuel as it burned stabilized it flight. I think any attempt at a fuel only rocket would benefit from being spin stabilized.
Sorbitol. Orbital.
Coincidence? I don't think so... ;-)
Good morning Sir im seargent arthur d dakiwag here in the philippine island.im a biginner to make rocket propellant sir.what kind of syrup that i will mix to the potassium Nitrate before melting sir.please help me to make my rocket fuel made up of sugar KNO3 and etc.please help me Sir cause im ignorant of everything about rocket fuel.the fire cracker is too much price High during christmass day Sir,i cant afford the price of every piece of firecracker.please help me
In this video I am using sorbitol sugar and potassium nitrate. In the following video I am using corn syrup. If you can't find corn syrup then honey may work.
Ok that is great but tell me a main raw materials please
Sorbitol is an artificial sweetener that is a sugar alcohol. The oxidizer is potassium nitrate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol
For some reason my grains get soft after few weeks, probably due to moisture intake
It's very important to store grains properly and right away! Drying soft grains out does not work well so start with fresh ones.
I store my grains in filament storage bags like below, I could not get the vacuum pump to work but it doesn't really matter. I have learned that Ziploc bags will not keep moisture out for the long term.
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I also always use desiccant now.
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These stainless steel canisters work great.
amzn.to/3TEyH0J
Amazon links help support the channel, thanks.
why is it not brown. The one I saw before was brown.
Flexi-fuel has a darker tone.
@@TheRocketeer It was sorbitol and potassium nitrate I believe with some iron oxide. It was a putty like conicity.
working my way through your videos from your PM you sent me on TRF..hobie1dog