I'll bet that those cracks will come back. As they did not get to the root cause, which is the steel structural frame (not the aluminum wall framing) is flexing.
According to what we have learned the steel frame has to flex or it would break. The wall is built to be rigid and therefore is the problem. So far it has been just over a year and no issues so far with over 25k miles under our belt Thanks for watching! Safe traveles
'Fixing' a steel crack is not the same as fixing a faulty design. It is easy to re-weld a structural crack - even easy to add re-enforcement at various frame locations (including at the cracked areas). One has to ask a simple question: "Why the crack in the first place?' The practical answer: "Never, never, never purchase any unit with a repaired frame!"
Looks like they did a good job. Seeing other repairs where gussets and what not was added to the frame, but from the way the wall bulged when the slide was out, broken structure in the wall was not addressed.
Unfortunately most people, that are not familiar with metallurgy, think that steel will not bend and flex. How much it does this will depend on many factors. Such as the thickness, the grades, and more importantly the overall length of the material. Put any trailer frame in the blazing sun of a desert in the middle of summer and measure the dimensions. Then take that same frame to the Artic in the dead of winter. They will not be the same. It becomes a trade off for the customer and manufacturer. Stronger frames equals heavier, more expensive products, greater towing requirements.
This problem is industry wide, especially in larger units with the front drop frame allowing more storage in the front leading to excessive pin weights. The current industry practice of using lag screws to attach the trailer walls to the frame is insufficient when pin weights exceed 3k IMO. These upper deck frames are not designed to support the pin weight unless securely attached to the trailer walls. Secure attachment of the trailer wall structure creates a uni-body frame which prevents upper deck flexing. Not securely attaching the walls will lead to metal fatigue and eventual frame failure from frame detachment. Having 3/8 lag screws is another sign of poor industry practice. Instead of using lag screws into wood stuffed aluminum tubing a 3/8 alum plate should be welded to the wall alum tubing all along the upper frame deck and the bolted directly to the upper deck frame. This would create a secure wall attachment insuring strong uni-body support. I believe RV manufacturers need to place warning placards in the front two storage compartments warning owners not to overload them. With massive drop frame storage compartments it’s easier that you think to over load the front end of these trailers and cause these lag screws to either back out or break. 14 lag screws into wood stuffed alum tubing is wholly under designed for the size and weight of these larger fifth wheels to keep the wall structure securely attached to the upper deck frame. This problem will only get worse as owners are to easily mislead by such large storage areas and over load a poorly and under designed section of the trailer in these larger fifth wheels.
my dad was in the rv industry for years and the one thing he told me was always remember a hole or opening is always a week spot and if you want a leak or weakness issues put a hole in something and you will find out if you want it strong build a solid wall with minimal holes same goes for the roof and floors that's why I would rather build my own. I was already told my tow rig would destroy a new unit
Have a Vanleigh 2018 fifth wheel. When I hooked it up to the truck I had a separation right in the bend that goes over the cab. Took it to Tishomingo RV repair. These guys are awesome! It is a common problem with Vanleigh. Sad the workmanship is so sorry. Maybe that’s why they went broke.
From what I saw they fixed the aftermath but not the cause . A little wood and aluminum isn't the cure, it's a bandaid. It's the undersized steel framing.
Real nice video.. so glad to see the work getting done and Keystone stepping up. They are great to work with and we are proud to represent the Brand. Great meeting you in Tampa.. hope our paths will cross again some day soon.
Yes, Keystone was great to work with both times we have had this happen. We hope to cross paths with you as well. We really enjoyed meeting you two and hanging out. We will give you a shout when we get up your way!
Wow, this was a fantastic video. We have been thinking about backing down from our motorhome to a fifth wheel; but I have seen so many repair videos to them this year that I’m just gonna stay with what I have. We aren’t full time per se’ but we do travel a lot. Still have the sticks and bricks and I don’t see that ever changing either. But this video really gave me some good info for people like my nephew who just went full time with a new fifth wheel. Blessings to you as you travel.
Thanks for watching! We have had this happen before and have been on the road for almost 3 years. No matter the RV, if you travel, especially like we do, they will break. It is just a fact. The question is have a reputable company that stands behind their work and will get it repaired for you. Safe Travels!!
Nope,,, yha can only patch the problem in that spot as other areas will flex and crack later on since those thin inner frames are junk... Just imagine that that trailer is worth nothing if you ever sell it...
Great documentation!!! We have a similar issue, back side of the front slide, not the front like yours. Trying to find someone to fix it since the crack is growing. Thank you for this video!! I am now a subscriber!
You did a smart decision by taking it to affinity. We had the same issue with our 3781 RL. I wished a 1000 times I had of taken ours there. Safe travels my friends.
Great video and thanks for sharing this. Did you happen to ask this repair shop which RV manufacturer was the best to stand behind their product? We own a Montana HC built in 2015 and I consider it a well built unit and IF we upgrade I think a Montana 3123RL would be our first choice. I've seen too many frame problems with Grand Design.
Just maybe if these RV manufacturers would structurally design and build them to meet the stress demands of over the road travels frame cracking and bending would not be an issue? But I'm sure it's all about cost and weight, which bad for the consumer.
The companies which build these should be ashamed but they aren't because this is a consumer driven industry and all they care about is $.Remember when the Us Auto makers built cars with poor or no quality.Maybe the Japanese should get into the RV industry. I'm quite sure if they did they would sell a quality product MUCH better than the CRAP which is thrown together here.
We have the same issue and are headed up to Affinity in Jan. Since it is warranty and you are full time, did Keystone pay anything towards your travel and hotel? Good video showing the repair.
I agree. The frame must flex, but, they bolted a wall to the "flexing frame" that has no relief points and no give. So, the "frame flexed" and caused the wall to crack and break a weld. Thanks for watching!
@@CoddiwompleTravelers Was this all covered under warranty? and seeing the internals of your wall, this is why I prefer azdel over luan.. I'm currently in the market for a TT.. Glad you got this fixed
While it appears the repairs were properly made, I'm not entirely convinced they solved the underlining issue of flexing. I checked your channel and didn't find a follow up. How about doing one? Of course it would need to be based on the same number of travel miles and other circumstances as before the repair.
Very true. It is my opinion that they use a frame that has to flex or else it would break and then bolt a ridged wall on it without any place for relief. Looks good in theory but doesn’t work in the real world. I have spoken to multiple people along the way and they seem to agree. We have notice that in the past year they are putting expansion joints on the newer models to allow for the movement. All that coupled with very thin aluminum makes for a bad combo. So far we have put over 15k miles on this repair without issue. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Not sure, I guess it is because it is not a water issue and weight. They (Affinity) have it down to a science. It has been over a year now without issue. Thanks for watching!!
I have the exact same issues in the same two locations as you. Who did you contact at Keystone? We need to get this fixed before we tow again. Thank you!
The first thing that you need to do is contact your dealer to get the warranty paper work started. Once that was done, because we wanted Affinity to do our repairs, we contacted the customer service number for Keystone. They were very helpful and help work out all the details. Hope that helps
@@CoddiwompleTravelers thank you. We have an extended warranty, but the dealer in Arizona we are scheduled with said we need to contact Keystone to get a case number and that our extended warranty will not cover it (although they have not seen the warranty). We bought the rig in Washington, but if we tow it back up there we won’t have anywhere to stay. We have a home here in AZ. I’m also concerned about towing it back to Washington with these cracks. Should I contact the dealer again or Keystone? Our rig is a 2020 so we are behind the year manufacturers warranty. So, am I out of luck getting it fixed? 😢
@@sandichristianson2134 I would contact Keystone directly and let them know what your dealer has said. We used ours for several months after we found the crack. Just be sure and take photos and then seal the he cracks. Water is your enemy!
@@CoddiwompleTravelers About how many miles do you think you traveled after noticing the issue? We just have a single bulge in the driver's side bed slide corner and about 1/8 flex when we hook up. Alliance say we can't get appointments for 6 months. I'm thinking of seeing if they'll approve Affinity.
@@daveclark6947 Actually I agree with you and think that there is frame flex and frame failure. Although I do think that this issue is frame flex. I have seen several cases of failure and it is devastating. Thanks for watching!!
sad days we live in most anything built now is junk
Except trailers are extra crappy
It's a 2021.......COVID Quality!
I'll bet that those cracks will come back. As they did not get to the root cause, which is the steel structural frame (not the aluminum wall framing) is flexing.
According to what we have learned the steel frame has to flex or it would break. The wall is built to be rigid and therefore is the problem. So far it has been just over a year and no issues so far with over 25k miles under our belt
Thanks for watching! Safe traveles
'Fixing' a steel crack is not the same as fixing a faulty design. It is easy to re-weld a structural crack - even easy to add re-enforcement at various frame locations (including at the cracked areas).
One has to ask a simple question: "Why the crack in the first place?'
The practical answer: "Never, never, never purchase any unit with a repaired frame!"
Looks like they did a good job. Seeing other repairs where gussets and what not was added to the frame, but from the way the wall bulged when the slide was out, broken structure in the wall was not addressed.
Unfortunately most people, that are not familiar with metallurgy, think that steel will not bend and flex. How much it does this will depend on many factors. Such as the thickness, the grades, and more importantly the overall length of the material. Put any trailer frame in the blazing sun of a desert in the middle of summer and measure the dimensions. Then take that same frame to the Artic in the dead of winter. They will not be the same. It becomes a trade off for the customer and manufacturer. Stronger frames equals heavier, more expensive products, greater towing requirements.
Even though I have a totally different camper I’m amazed at how much I learn just watching yours getting worked on! Thanks for sharing!
I learn something every time we visit Affinity.
It’s always nice to find a reputable service company. 👍🏻
You got that right!
Yeah, I'll put them on my list if needing some kinds of service!
This problem is industry wide, especially in larger units with the front drop frame allowing more storage in the front leading to excessive pin weights. The current industry practice of using lag screws to attach the trailer walls to the frame is insufficient when pin weights exceed 3k IMO.
These upper deck frames are not designed to support the pin weight unless securely attached to the trailer walls. Secure attachment of the trailer wall structure creates a uni-body frame which prevents upper deck flexing. Not securely attaching the walls will lead to metal fatigue and eventual frame failure from frame detachment.
Having 3/8 lag screws is another sign of poor industry practice. Instead of using lag screws into wood stuffed aluminum tubing a 3/8 alum plate should be welded to the wall alum tubing all along the upper frame deck and the bolted directly to the upper deck frame. This would create a secure wall attachment insuring strong uni-body support.
I believe RV manufacturers need to place warning placards in the front two storage compartments warning owners not to overload them. With massive drop frame storage compartments it’s easier that you think to over load the front end of these trailers and cause these lag screws to either back out or break.
14 lag screws into wood stuffed alum tubing is wholly under designed for the size and weight of these larger fifth wheels to keep the wall structure securely attached to the upper deck frame.
This problem will only get worse as owners are to easily mislead by such large storage areas and over load a poorly and under designed section of the trailer in these larger fifth wheels.
my dad was in the rv industry for years and the one thing he told me was always remember a hole or opening is always a week spot and if you want a leak or weakness issues put a hole in something and you will find out if you want it strong build a solid wall with minimal holes same goes for the roof and floors that's why I would rather build my own. I was already told my tow rig would destroy a new unit
Affinity is great! Not only do they do a great job, they also care about their customers.
Absolutely, that is why we drive so far to let them do our work.
We love Rod and his crew. We agree with you, they are the only company beside Keystone that will touch our RV
Absolutely! They have been so good to us over the past few years.
Have a Vanleigh 2018 fifth wheel. When I hooked it up to the truck I had a separation right in the bend that goes over the cab. Took it to Tishomingo RV repair. These guys are awesome! It is a common problem with Vanleigh. Sad the workmanship is so sorry. Maybe that’s why they went broke.
THE FRAMES ARE THIN RECYCLED METALS.THEY WILL BEND,BREAK,CRACK,FAIL.WELDING IS POOR AT BEST..
We have a large crack just under our bedroom slide where yours was. Ours is a Dutchmen. Wow they did such a fabulous repair job. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
From what I saw they fixed the aftermath but not the cause . A little wood and aluminum isn't the cure, it's a bandaid. It's the undersized steel framing.
Looks like they did a great job! Thank you for the video. Just sub'd!
We think they did a really good job. We learned so much while we were there, and they are very "full-time" friendly.
Real nice video.. so glad to see the work getting done and Keystone stepping up. They are great to work with and we are proud to represent the Brand. Great meeting you in Tampa.. hope our paths will cross again some day soon.
Yes, Keystone was great to work with both times we have had this happen. We hope to cross paths with you as well. We really enjoyed meeting you two and hanging out. We will give you a shout when we get up your way!
Great video! Headed to Affinity for frame flex on my 2020 3791 on November 7. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thanks for watching!
Wow, this was a fantastic video. We have been thinking about backing down from our motorhome to a fifth wheel; but I have seen so many repair videos to them this year that I’m just gonna stay with what I have. We aren’t full time per se’ but we do travel a lot. Still have the sticks and bricks and I don’t see that ever changing either. But this video really gave me some good info for people like my nephew who just went full time with a new fifth wheel.
Blessings to you as you travel.
Thanks for watching! We have had this happen before and have been on the road for almost 3 years. No matter the RV, if you travel, especially like we do, they will break. It is just a fact. The question is have a reputable company that stands behind their work and will get it repaired for you. Safe Travels!!
Nope,,, yha can only patch the problem in that spot as other areas will flex and crack later on since those thin inner frames are junk...
Just imagine that that trailer is worth nothing if you ever sell it...
Great documentation!!! We have a similar issue, back side of the front slide, not the front like yours. Trying to find someone to fix it since the crack is growing. Thank you for this video!! I am now a subscriber!
Thanks for watching!
You did a smart decision by taking it to affinity. We had the same issue with our 3781 RL. I wished a 1000 times I had of taken ours there.
Safe travels my friends.
We had a 3781rl before this one and had the same problem with it. That is how we found Affinity. They are great!
Wow Seen the young man grinding metal with no safety glasses or gloves.
Great video and thanks for sharing this. Did you happen to ask this repair shop which RV manufacturer was the best to stand behind their product? We own a Montana HC built in 2015 and I consider it a well built unit and IF we upgrade I think a Montana 3123RL would be our first choice. I've seen too many frame problems with Grand Design.
As far as we can tell and after talking to the shop, Keystone is one of the better companies to work with. Thanks for watching!
Just maybe if these RV manufacturers would structurally design and build them to meet the stress demands of over the road travels frame cracking and bending would not be an issue? But I'm sure it's all about cost and weight, which bad for the consumer.
The companies which build these should be ashamed but they aren't because this is a consumer driven industry and all they care about is $.Remember when the Us Auto makers built cars with poor or no quality.Maybe the Japanese should get into the RV industry.
I'm quite sure if they did they would sell a quality product MUCH better than the CRAP which is thrown together here.
That's NOT frame flex,,that's frame FAILURE period,,it will fail again because of the thinkness of the iron,,,likely right next to welds
Liberty frames suck unless a brinkley they add extra supports
Maximum profits over rides quality.
no way on this earth was that guy a welder
We have the same issue and are headed up to Affinity in Jan. Since it is warranty and you are full time, did Keystone pay anything towards your travel and hotel? Good video showing the repair.
No they did not. And, it should be noted that we didn’t ask either.
Nice job and nice RV, how much doest it cost a repair like that ? I know you didn't pay but do you know how much ? Thanks.
Thanks for watching! As far as price I have absolutely no idea. If I was guessing ….. maybe $5000 ish????
It’s NoT frame flex ! A frame must have some flex.
I agree. The frame must flex, but, they bolted a wall to the "flexing frame" that has no relief points and no give. So, the "frame flexed" and caused the wall to crack and break a weld. Thanks for watching!
@@CoddiwompleTravelers Was this all covered under warranty? and seeing the internals of your wall, this is why I prefer azdel over luan.. I'm currently in the market for a TT.. Glad you got this fixed
@@Bronco2Cj Yea it was. We have had this issue twice (2 different RV’s) and both times it was fully covered
Thanks for watching!
@@CoddiwompleTravelers out of curiosity did you have an extended warranty? the 2 sales reps I've spoken to so far want to sell me these.
While it appears the repairs were properly made, I'm not entirely convinced they solved the underlining issue of flexing.
I checked your channel and didn't find a follow up. How about doing one?
Of course it would need to be based on the same number of travel miles and other circumstances as before the repair.
Very true. It is my opinion that they use a frame that has to flex or else it would break and then bolt a ridged wall on it without any place for relief. Looks good in theory but doesn’t work in the real world. I have spoken to multiple people along the way and they seem to agree. We have notice that in the past year they are putting expansion joints on the newer models to allow for the movement.
All that coupled with very thin aluminum makes for a bad combo.
So far we have put over 15k miles on this repair without issue.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
❤️
Why mot marine grade plywood after the repairs?
Not sure, I guess it is because it is not a water issue and weight. They (Affinity) have it down to a science. It has been over a year now without issue. Thanks for watching!!
I have the exact same issues in the same two locations as you. Who did you contact at Keystone? We need to get this fixed before we tow again. Thank you!
The first thing that you need to do is contact your dealer to get the warranty paper work started. Once that was done, because we wanted Affinity to do our repairs, we contacted the customer service number for Keystone. They were very helpful and help work out all the details.
Hope that helps
@@CoddiwompleTravelers thank you. We have an extended warranty, but the dealer in Arizona we are scheduled with said we need to contact Keystone to get a case number and that our extended warranty will not cover it (although they have not seen the warranty). We bought the rig in Washington, but if we tow it back up there we won’t have anywhere to stay. We have a home here in AZ. I’m also concerned about towing it back to Washington with these cracks. Should I contact the dealer again or Keystone? Our rig is a 2020 so we are behind the year manufacturers warranty. So, am I out of luck getting it fixed? 😢
@@sandichristianson2134 I would contact Keystone directly and let them know what your dealer has said. We used ours for several months after we found the crack. Just be sure and take photos and then seal the he cracks. Water is your enemy!
@@CoddiwompleTravelers we will! Thank you!
@@CoddiwompleTravelers About how many miles do you think you traveled after noticing the issue? We just have a single bulge in the driver's side bed slide corner and about 1/8 flex when we hook up. Alliance say we can't get appointments for 6 months. I'm thinking of seeing if they'll approve Affinity.
Frame flex is misleading. This is frame failure. Nothing to do with ( flex)
@@daveclark6947 Actually I agree with you and think that there is frame flex and frame failure. Although I do think that this issue is frame flex. I have seen several cases of failure and it is devastating.
Thanks for watching!!
2021........Covid Quality!
Don’t know if it is a factor but we can tell a difference between our 2020 and our 2021
Is is a requirement that CZcams creators play obnoxious music on their videos?
Grand design sucks
@therovingvets
Its all junk...
Junk.
Ĺiperd frames suck
Awesome video!!!
Thanks!!
Junk....no resale
Have another drink.