Discussing Church Of Christ with Two Ex Members
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- In this video, I discuss the church of christ with two ex church of christ members. This is a glimpse into how my podcast operates. If you're interested in checking it out, go to my youtube channel or my iTunes podcast. Thanks for watching.
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Music: Silent Partner - Ether
Please, more interviews of ex religious members. I can listen to those all day. Thx for your diligent hard work.
I do these types of interviews all the time on my podcast. that's basically all it is. check it out in the description
Telltale Sweet, checking it out now.
I really wish I could share my story. I’m ex religious and I love these talks. I guess I stumbled across this channel to late. I love these tho!
"Was it forced?" Well, compulsory schooling is forced as well.
I have traveled o & lived in the Philippines several times over the years & hearing this adopted Filipino speak with such a Southern white accent is incredible...It definitely makes a case for nature vs nurture. Nice discussion...
Bud Askins I know right! I was surprised when he said he was from the Philippines lol
It reminds me of an Asian stand-up comedian who has a thick Tennessee accent. I can't think of the guys name but he's pretty funny. He's been in a few movies as well.
You guys didn't know that if you learn a language before puberty, you can speak it with no accent? Works with several languages too!
@@jayfrank1913 he literally speaks in a southern american accent
@@a10miletooth That's what I meant. If you learn the language before puberty, you speak like those around you, in the case Southern American. If you moved to the Southern US after puberty, you would speak English with an accent from your native language(s).
Just now found this. As an ex-CoC person, I found this oddly validating, and wow did it bring up memories.
Does the COC produce the World Bible Study courses?
I as well found it accurate as a kid who was born into it
@@zaneher7 yes
I’m also an ex-CoC. So glad to have departed from those idiots.
Leaving the Church of Christ is the same as falling from Heaven
During Jesus earthly ministry HE experienced the deputure of disciples.
I also was born into the Church of Christ and I am so glad I'm no longer there. I can finally be myself and Worship God in a loving wsy instead of being scared all the time
AleciaAlways I am sorry you were scared all the time but Christ purchased the church with his own blood and He has the right to say how we are to worship Him; afterall He created us.
@@lindahutchens8612 Says you. And your Bible. We are beyond your cruel, evil, sadistic church. A lot of us suffered our whole lives, and continue to do so. I only regret that there's no Hell for the likes of you to go to. Shut the fuck up with your sanctimonious bullshit. Your comment has no place here.
Linda Hutchens Your manipulative brainwashing bullshit is disgusting. I take no issue with someone practicing religion on their own, but when groups like these manipulate and control people it’s just gross. Wake up. You are a cult member, and you are being fed garbage out of the palm of their hands.
Alan Canon Wow, you were in the wrong congregation. I have experienced only love.
@@VickieV1333 That's the thing a lot of people don't get. People see God through the actions of his followers. People who feel loved by their congregation feel loved by God. And when they treat others with kindness and warmth, people see God as a benevolent figure of unconditional love. But not everyone who feels loved by God preach that love to others. They preach sulphur and damnation and treat others with scorn as if to elevate themselves as spiritually superior. And to the people who fall victim to their scorn, God appears as a tyrannical megalomaniac. Rather than draw people in towards Christ, they push people away because the God they believe in is not the same God they preach.
Can I grow antlers and be the Deer Lord
Please do
Only if I get to grow my own and become Moose Wheat Lord.
Only if I can grow wolf ears and be the wolf Goddess. And maybe a tail.
I'll allow it.
If only huh? Well the Antichrist is real he is the true king. Non believers are the evil that is preventing the truth of creation from being shown to humanity. But the golden rule of law is about to be enforced and it will be glorious. Flow with progress or go against it and be swept away in its torrent. Christopher King is the name of the 2nd coming of the son of god. Expect us and accept us. The truth shall be revealed
Thank you very very much for this, right now I am stuck in a CoC and it feels amazing to know I’m not alone
I'm stuck in the CoC, too! This discussion is certainly encouraging!
@@ka.s.55 This breaks my heart to hear of all of you feeling this way.
The only reason I stayed in the church of christ cult for so long is because of family. they really get disappointed if their family members leave. And the church says so many bad things about families who have members leave the church. I hope you're no longer a member and have found freedom, whatever that means for you.
@@thomasbermea347 sooo true. I was raised CofC and was made to go until I turned 18. So thankful to have freedom. Took years for me to really believe I am not going to hell though.
Stuck? Is the church of Christ a Cult? Really? czcams.com/video/qmeB7HEeZHM/video.html
There is no problem with belief and with believing in something. The problem arises when the belief becomes organized and "religious leaders" take advantage of the system
Believing that the coronavirus vaccine is bad is very destructive both to a person's health and to the health of those around them so yes our beliefs do matter believing that trump is still the president of the United States is very destructive for democracy
I can go on and on but you get the point
I am a recovering member of the CoC. I was born and raised in it, and Southern, no less. My biggest beef with it is that it believes that it is the ONLY legitimate church. I often urge my parents, who are still faithful members, to ask themselves: What if I am wrong? How do I know that I have the perfect understanding of which religion is the true one? The arrogance of believing that nobody else has the answers is actually sinful. It's a form of pride and judgement.
same experience. fear theology, rigid, and yes, "we are the only people going to heaven." SAD!
Ditto!
Studied with Catholics, Baptist, Methodist and others, and none come close to following the Bible as written. As a former Baptist and Nazarene, the COC is not a cult. Just using the Bible only to speak for God. If p people feel they are going to hell, that is their own conviction. Christ provides the way out. He does expect obedient faith, not false teachings and fake man made faith. Or faith in a self made God that won't punish the those who are not obedient to the word of God. Look at God in the Old Testament, he destroyed men for erring outside his instructions. Christ is strict with the Apostles about what he wanted, and he wanted them to teach. czcams.com/video/qmeB7HEeZHM/video.html
As a Christian loses desire for temptation of things in life, the Holy Spirit intercedes for that Christian. That's is what's happening. Have a great month and be blessed.
Agreed!
I was a minister for 31 years in the more progressive branch of the church of Christ. Even so I still got fired from my last two churches and my family essentially disfellowshipped and told never to come back under threat of financial retribution because I had two of my children who were gay and I stood up for them by loving them. The great irony being that two of the churches I worked for through the years covered up the preacher having an affair with somebody but would flip out over someone who was gay. Church is supposed to be a place where that people care for each other no matter what, it is such a travesty that the leader ship in so many churches have to be power-hungry control freaks and cause these kind of hurts on people.
God's word never changes.
Jesus Christ loved the sinner, but not the sin.
Baptist historian here. Alexander Campbell was a Baptist preacher before he startd the Restoration Movement. I have studied the CoC for many years. If you ever need a friend to talk to, I am here friend. God is good, and I pray you dont leave Him behind, because He has not left you. The CoC generally teaches that being in union with Christ and being in their church, is the same thing. That is the biggest difference between Baptists and the CoC. Baptists have many faults of their own, but one thing they get right, is that your relationship with God is not the same as being a member of any church. I love you, fell your pain. Trust Him!
@@caman171 I appreciate your heart! I definitely have not lost God and in fact have a stronger faith now than ever. I have been on sabbatical from church in the traditional go to a building on Sunday morning since for three years now. The purpose of a sabbatical is to grow closer to God and this has certainly been that. I’ve even found my faith being surprisingly influenced by a group of Christian guys doing a podcast called Blurry Creatures!
@@micshould Praise the Lord! When youre ready, find a church that loves God and loves His Word and THAT means one who loves people no matter where they are, who they are or what issues they have. Its not my job to condemn, its my job to take them to Jesus! Praying for you friend!
I’m an ex CoC member, raised in it as well, and 70% of my therapy is about problems my church caused. The fear. The self loathing. The shame. The brainwashing. So thankful I was able to see the light to get out.
I’m sorry about that but don’t lump all CoC’s together.
Yes! Thank God you were able to get out! Me too. I was a member of the International Churches of Christ- even worse than the mainline CoC.
@@nancytoulouse6973Really? Didn’t know that ICoC was WORSE than CoC!!! I was raised in CoC until age 12. I’m now 65, and still have legalism issues! However, the Lord led me to a really good Gospel preaching church. In this church, our pastor teaches deeply from the Bible, and I am beginning to understand why Grace is so AMAZING!!! It’s almost too good to be true, but it IS true!!!! 😂😂😂🥰
@@colepriceguitar1153 Exactly
They have a attendance salvation, be there always when the doors are open or your a 2nd class Christian.
The verse which my CoC used to justify the lack of instruments was Ephesians 5:19. Because it says "make melody in your heart" rather than with an instrument. Very bizarre interpretation.
Mine uses that also, but moreso say that because we don't see any examples of instruments being used in worship in the new testament, we can't assume we have the authority to do so.
Gilgamesh Yeah this was the only part I really disagreed with. The OT isn’t used as an authority when they were determining NT worship
David played a harp or something. How can they say he didn’t use instruments?
Practical Theist They don’t deny that he did, they just deny that the OT has any authority to prescribe NT worship. They hold to a patternist theology, the pattern being the New Testament *only*
Gilgamesh look at col 3:16-17
If there really is a God, do you think he'd care about how you look, what music you listen, who you love, what fun you have?
Don't you think he'd rather care about the real issues in the world? The people in need, the wars we fight, ...
You'd have to read the Bible to see what he thinks about those things?
Pusalieth None of this shit makes any sense, and if you actually thought about it, you’d realize that.
Little Loner God had to deal with sin and He sent His Son to die for the sins of man. Everyone needs to have this sin removed and must become a Christian. Jesus himself said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; Mark 16:16." One must be immersed in water and no coC does not believe there is any power in the water; the Lord Jesus saves us when we DO as he says. Visit several coC's to find a scriptural and loving congregation to attend; most teach the apostle's doctrine. Ask questions and study the bible to see if what they teach is correct with the word of God. A good place to read about how to become a Christian is Acts 8:35-39 and it talks about Jesus being preached; remember today is the day of salvation. Satan wants us all to be fighting one another and in the meantime souls are being lost; I want all to be saved.
@@RyanChaos.0 Have you read the Bible (and I am not being sarcastic); just asking? What doesn't make sense to you? Maybe I can help; would be more than happy to try.
@@lindahutchens8612 what about the scripts the bible didnt include? Like the gospel of judas and others? Did you read those too?
I was raised in the church of christ and left at the age of 20. This interview really gives a very accurate analysis of the COC, and reminded me how glad I am that I got out when I did.
I went to Church of Christ for 15 years. I left and no one stopped me and if I wanna go back I’ll go! no one has control over you unless you allow it.
Tater Traps Please come back to Church of Christ.
Thank you to these guests for sharing. I actually had a similar experience to what was mentioned at 20:37 …years ago I told an evangelical Christian friend I was gay & was terrified she would reject me, but she responded with, “of course it’s not a choice! Why would anyone choose to be discriminated against & hated by most of society?” It meant the world to me in that moment!
I think a lot of everyday Christians realize that. :-)
I went to the Church of Christ for 60 years and taught classes and very active. I got a divorce and talked about something they thought was horrible (it wasn’t) and the elders excommunicated me and told me I was going to hell. Now.....women I was friends with for years do not speak to me and couples my husband and I were friends with, will not speak! Church was my life so now I have no friends. But i will be ok because I have my husband, kids, grandkids and friends outside the church. I still believe in God but I don’t think elders should have that much power. They cause more harm than good!
Debbie Pickett May I asked what they thought was horrible?
And this is what makes it a cult. Is that all the people that I've met from this denomination only except other cult members as true friends. Anyone else is merely an acquaintance and always judged. It's almost like how Muslims believe that they cannot sin as long as its against a non-muslim
@debbiepickett5755 One of the true signs of a cult is that when your “friends” won’t talk to you anymore when you leave.
I went to church with a Debbie Pickett. I wonder if this is the same person. The situation doesn’t sound familiar but I haven’t seen her in years. ❤
@@concrete3030 That's a lie. Members of churches of Christ are cool with people not in the church. Maybe the congregation you were part of were like that. Don't generalise it!
I AM soooooo excited I left the church of christ in FEBRUARY this year! after 30 years. thank you SO much for this i can't wait to finish watching this, is so awesome I am so excited
i am a believer but not in that doctrine. I believe in the G-d of Israel isaac and jacob, i'm probably messianic now
Why did you leave?
@@angeldream1 are you still religious a year later?
@@angeldream1 so you're not a Christian?
....folks in the audience with ears that are itchn,reveal their vain discomfort by bitchn....Potter's Poets........
try with all your might to speak as oracles; for a fool is known by multitude of words; and the laughter of the fool is the same as the crackling of the wood in the fire. When you Leave the Church of Christ; THE WORD is just being proved: the dark flee from the light, and they seek to have their ears itched, and they will look for comfort but will find no comforter. If you do find carnal comfort outside the Body of Christ; understand it will only last as long as you do; & after that; HELL....the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy is understanding; eliminate vanity, feel ashamed, and take the steps necessary for reconciliation; for if you are not ashamed remember....the Unjust know no shame; if you can't tell where theses sayings came from....study to show yourself approved...
Long comment. Telltale, I hope to hell you see this. You have done something invaluable here sir. I'm never going to be allowed into a Kingdom Hall, so I never would have had the insight I gained through watching your videos, researching things you've said, etc. I never would have known JW's were the way they were. I would have gone on thinking they were the best religion out there for their natural skepticism, their interpretations of the Bible that seemed analogous to views in the modern world that promote wellbeing, their exhaustive research of scriptures, their relatively accurate translations, etc...
My parents joined relatively recently. They'd always been believers, but never the type to inform actions on those beliefs. Had JW grandparents, but they were cool and never pushy and never tried to indoctrinate us, just educate us on what the Bible said and what they believed to be accurate or inaccurate interpretations. Allowed and encouraged skepticism, and I honestly think it saved my mind.
But a few years ago a sweet old guy from the local Hall came along and offered studies, and he was unwittingly the more indoctrinating type who'd inadvertently trained himself to subtly insert dogma without noticing. Nonetheless he was a good guy, and my parents ended up being pretty close with him. He passed away last year, and they took it pretty hard. I think it was a big part of the reason they decided to fully join the congregation. He came to see them even on his deathbed, the guy had conviction and a good heart. But about the same time they phoned to tell me they were joining, I started watching your videos. And I'm so so so so so so so so so glad, man.
If it weren't for you I'd have never known how to talk to them, what kinds of things they were being exposed to, what kind of brainwashing they'd be going through once they were out of study and in the congregation. I'd have never been able to make concise guidelines for talking with them without jumping over the "us vs. them" fortress wall. I'd have had to generalize based on far more propagandistic and inaccurate material about witnesses, or would have been totally unaware of big chunks of the Hall experience, and I'd have ended up shunned in no time flat. But through the info you've provided, I was able to talk to them on terms they would be able to square, that wouldn't rip up their core beliefs and shock them into that "ears closed" state you showed in those hall-crashing videos that they can get when their beliefs are brought to question. I was able to have a conversation with them about epistemology, about harmful methods of indoctrination which could have caused psychological damage to both of them if they'd let it, about following truth even if it opposed what they were learning. All in productive ways. And tonight, when I said something about this church I work at in my town (as a technician for a company which failed to ask my opinion about it) and about the manipulation techniques I see them use, and hoped my mom wouldn't hang up the phone and never call again... She said "yeah, even when I go to the Hall, I see some of that. They encourage us to question and not take their words as absolute authority, but... The way they word things, it doesn't always seem like they want us to do that beyond a point."
BOOM. That's you, my good sir. You armed me with info I needed. You helped prevent me from being shunned. You gave me seeds of doubt and inquisition to plant that would protect both their minds, and our relationship. Even though we only talk once or twice a month, I know that I helped them, I know I'll continue to be able to, and maybe one day I'll convince them not to tithe for child molester protection money. Maybe abandon the organization altogether and seek their faith on more honest terms. And I know if I'd found your channel a year later, I'd never talk to them again.
Don't EVER let anyone tell you you should stop, or that you're not helping people. Some people might call you the devil. Some people might say you're working against god. Screw those people. Your work literally saved two people who mean a whole lot to me, who I was risking never seeing again after telling them I'm an atheist/ borderline antitheist. Now I feel pretty confident I can have that conversation next time I'm in town to visit. Just one story, I bet a lot of people can say the same whether they take the time to tell you or not, but I wanted to make sure you knew how directly and how significantly you helped me out. This one guy on the internet somewhere. Haha. Don't worry, I'll meet you at Faithless Forum next year, and I'll tell you this in person in case you don't see it here.
Anyone else, watch everything on this channel. Telltale is an incredible content creator. He works really hard to help those of us who might be having family issues or personal issues because of religion. And he does particularly good work on Jehovah's Witnesses, having been there himself and bled horribly for the experience he can now share with us. He's a Messiah if I know what one looks like, and deserves massive reverence and support. Take the opportunity to learn everything he gives us. Let's change the future for good.
@Rose dowling Why have you left coC? Maybe you can try another coC and let your family know that. Have you written here alot of bad things about coC and your family is upset about? If so maybe you can make it right with them. Remember not all coC's are the same but most teach the correct gospel. Let me know how you are doing.
Im happy for you i hope you continued to open your eyes and were able to reconnect with your family ❤️ I hope you’re doing well now that its been a year, i think you made the right choice to question keep on doing that
@Rose dowling
CoC is a waste - as is evangelicalism in general - simply an anti-Christ cult.
I encourage you to simply open your heart and walk with God and focus on integrity before the Lord and humility before the Lord and before people.
If God calls you to hang in a COC church or any other church you can do so without letting them brainwash you but allowing God to reveal himself to you and simply hanging with the people and interacting with them in a constructive way.
@@lindahutchens8612
She left CoC because - just like all evangelicalism - it is a religious manipulative cult that lies to people and keeps people from genuinely meeting God in Christ.
@@greglogan7706Churches of Christ are not all the same. I had to visit several before finding one that abides in the word of God and follows Jesus and the apostle's doctrine; just because there is a sign out front of the building that says church of Christ does not mean it is teaching the truth; it may in fact may be but if one does not study the word of God a person would not even know if the truth is being taught or not. We MUST check out everything that is preached from bible classes to the preaching from the pulpit to see if it is so because we MUST abide in the word of God.
I would recommend you read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached.
I am a member of the Church of Christ, and being part of this group has had a profound impact on my life and my family's lives. Many of my family members are also part of this group. I feel trapped in this group, as I recognize it as a cult. However, due to my family's long-standing involvement of over 55 years, I find it difficult to leave. I am 72 years old and ask for your prayers as I navigate this challenging situation. Being part of this Church of Christ has negatively affected my self-esteem and has significantly impacted my entire life. I pray for God to show me a way to escape this situation and move on from this nightmare of being part of this church.
First of all the church of Christ is not a group🤦♀️. It is the church that Christ himself had shed his blood for. It goes by the New Testament scriptures in every way. You will never be in a church that isn’t tainted with the worldly practices! It’s a shame to say that Christ church is a cult and you will have to answer for that.
I pray you study more of the New Testament. Maybe you don’t like the fact that the church don’t itch your ears to fables. You want a church that will say it’s ok to sin and all you have to do is believe. Good luck
I think it depends what Church of Christ you go to. I go to the church of Christ and have had nothing but good experiences (compared to other churches I've been to). I enjoy where I go and what I'm learning. My pastor doesn't seem to be as extreme as some of these they are talking about. Such as the hell and brimstone. My pastor doesn't try and scare anyone about it or shove it done your throat. Every church is different. More than anything I think you have to find a good group of people that runs the church.
My sis and her family are the best, they're cofc and their church is aight. I was in a missionary group/"camp" of the same cofc name and it was a total Looney bin cult
If your Church of Christ has a "pastor", then you're not in the denomination being described here. The Church of Christ these guys come from forbid people from calling the preacher "pastor."
@@j.d.matthews1226 A pastor is a shepherd or elder according to the bible. The one who preaches the sermons is a evangelist
I AM CHURCH OF CHRIST INDONESIA ,SOUTHEAST ASIA
Which congregation to you go to? I'm always interested in finding progressive ones.
One of my uncles converted my parents to the church of christ (non-capitalization is intentional) when I was little more than a toddler so I was effectively born into the church. Mom was a great believer in bending the twig in the direction I should go. She shoved the church down my throat until I gagged on it. If the church doors were open, we were there; Sunday morning church school and preaching, Sunday night preaching, Wednesday night bible study, and every night during any "revival" service held within reasonable driving distance. Attendance was absolutely mandatory. If you were ambulatory and the church doors were open, you went to church - no excuses. This particular twig was bent far beyond the breaking point.
Socialization with non-members other than to proselytize (to get to heaven, you had to take at least one other soul with you) was not prohibited, but was discouraged. Ours was a small congregation and the only other members that were near my age was one cousin. You can imagine the crimp that put on my social life. No school dances, no proms, no nothing if it involved the possibility of a one-on-one encounter with a (gasp) girl! You can count the number of dates I had with a (gasp) girl in high school on the fingers of a quadruple amputee. My social skills were non-existent. I lost my virginity to a professional lady in Tijuana, Mexico before boarding ship for Okinawa, Japan on the way to Vietnam.
I never believed the s**t the church shoveled, because none of it made any sense, then or now. Even as young as I was, I recognized the circular reasoning, the lack of any supporting evidence, the biblical contradictions, and the absolute nonsense of almost everything in that "holy book", but questions or objections were not allowed. Throughout my development years I lived a lie; projecting the image of a pious, believing little church member drone, leading songs, serving communion, even preaching a couple of sermons while the real me lived behind a self-built wall; effectively a prison with me as the only inmate. I'm in my 70's and still have at least one foot in that prison. My wife has worked with me for over 50 years to dismantle the wall. It's not as high or as thick as it was, but it's still there and I'm resigned to the idea that my death certificate will be my only parole.
My dad left the church after his father died. Grandpa was a deacon and founding member of a Baptist congregation, and dad refused to accept the church of christ teachings; Grandpa was not a member of the church of christ, he was going straight to hell. As you might imagine, that put some stress on the home environment during my pre-teen and early teen years. Mom and dad's screaming matches would seemingly last for hours while I cowered in my room, or on a couple of occasions left home to be anywhere but there. It never got physical, but I hoped they would get a divorce and end the warfare. Divorce in the 1950's in the bible belt of rural North Louisiana was not going to happen.
I effectively walked out of the high school graduation line into the Marine Corps recruiting office at age 17. In any event, I would have enlisted on my 18th birthday, but prevailed on my parents to sign the permission for me to enlist at age 17. My primary motivation was a desperate attempt to get away from the church of christ and my family environment. The jungles of Vietnam was preferable to remaining in that environment. I had to promise mom that I would go to church before she would sign the permission slip. My first Sunday after arriving at Marine Corp Recruit Depot in San Diego, I went to the recruit church services. That was the one and only time, but I fulfilled my promise that "I would go to church". Marine Corps boot camp has a deserved reputation for severe and inflexible discipline. It may give you some idea of my experience with growing up in the church of christ when I say, quite truthfully, that the first time in my life that I remember feeling free was Marine Corp Boot Camp.
They say there are no atheists in foxholes. All I can say on that subject is that anyone who can believe in a loving, omniscient, omnipotent "father in heaven" after experiencing what that "father" allows his "children" to do to each other on the battlefield has their head so far up their dorsal orifice their view of the world is constrained by their navel. A human "father" which "loved" his children the way the Judaeo/Christian god loves his would have all parental rights stripped away by any court in any civilized nation on Earth. If he doesn't know about it, he's not omniscient. If he knows about it and can't stop it, he's not omnipotent. If he knows about it, has the power to stop it and doesn't, he's an immoral, homicidal maniac and completely undeserving of any respect, much less worship. The church of christ made me agnostic, the foxhole made me atheist, and a lifetime of observing theism made me an anti-theist.
Age 50. Agree with every word you said. And the way you said it.
Memories...
Excuse me, good sir; may I plagiarize your "no atheists in foxholes" response? It is the most beautiful piece of poetry I have read in this decade.
@@Magekind Certainly, Sir. Use whatever you wish with my blessings. And thank you for the kind words.
I was 2nd generation coC agnostic now..
I am noticing that these gentlemen are not Biblically sound at all. As a Church of Christ member I am saddened for these guys to be our representatives. I pray for people who grew up in such strict and harsh congregations. I would love to hear a discussion with a Church of Christ minister who is biblically sound and only sticks with the doctrine of Christ. We stress the importance of salvation because we never know when Jesus will return. I am 24yrs old and seek knowledge through the scriptures and I encourage you all to do the same.
Instrumental music is not recorded in the New Testament. It is recorded in the Old Testament. However, the only people allowed to use a particular instrument were the brethren Levites -1 Chronicles --15:16--. We are not Levites and today that is not applicable to Christianity. Jesus change the priesthood/law after Melchisedec- Hebrews 7:11 -12. That was under the Mosaic law/old testament. The New Testament teaches that there is no life in instruments- 1 Corinthians 14:7-15. God wants us to worship him in Spirit and in Truth which is life-John 4:20-24. God authorizes us to sing hymns- Mark 14: 16 and use our lips for praise- Hebrews 13:15. Old law/Mosaic law/Old testament has been for filled Luke 24:44. Jesus teaches that we cannot have 2 Testators in effect. It’s either the mosaic law or The New Testament which is grace- Romans 6:14-17, Galatians 5:3-4, Hebrews 9:15-17. I pray this helps. Much love.
So why even read the Old Testament if it doesn’t matter?
Selective scriptural Dispensationalism
@@lukehan451yep. The bible says nothing shall be subtracted or added from The Book
Love does not care about instruments. Is it not clear?
My grandmother was church of christ. She had been for 50+ years. Taught a lady's bible class and knew her bible inside and out. Me and my brother lived with her and took care of her after her stroke. The Elders of her church were trying to make her kick my brother out because he was gay. Her response resonates with me to this day.
"It's not my job to judge him. It's my job to love him."
Too bad most of the other members were complete macaroni ass hats.
Well christans don’t talk like you.
Would you say cuss words in front of God
Wow .. the mention of Lonnie Jones here sent shivers down my spine. This man was the only "counselor" my ex-wife would meet with after I deconverted. I never got to meet him, and she had 1 "session" with him. 1 session. 45 minutes, and he told her to seek an annulment or divorce because I was a lost cause. He told her I was a Narcissist or an Engineer, and my ex-wife replied "he's both".
Wow! Is that common? Does CoC in general encourage divorce just because one marriage partner isn’t a believer?
Also I’m sorry you had to deal that
I watched a video of him "preaching" at a summer series on the church's views on mental health. I didn't know I could feel so much rage. Oh my god. He has no clue the damage he is doing.
Playing this at 1.5 is better in my opinion, try it if you want 😊
kitty cat because our dulcet tones sound sweeter?
Mark PH sure, we're going with that, but great vid btw! I really relate with some of your belief's 😊
It's all down to the host & moderator. I enjoyed it for my first time
Thanks❤️
I do this to save time
My family used to be church of christ when I was a kid but we eventually kind of just stopped going and i didn't know why. My parents are still Christians and I still identify as a Christian, so I asked them about it. Come to find out my mom wanted to lead an adult Bible study class and they wouldn't let her because "women aren't allowed to lead", so after a long argument with the elders about it they decided to leave the church. I still have a lot of nostalgia for churches of christ because I went there so many times a week as a kid, and I find their style of worship really comforting, but looking back they were extremely misogynistic and elitist, not to mention super homophobic.
And did you ask why women are not allowed to lead? Because there are actually scriptures that speaks against women leading in the church. Don't bring feminism into Christianity
Are you still interested in delving deeper into the Church of Christ and its effects on former members? I was a preacher in the church for a brief period, and grew up indoctrinated in the church's dogma. It severely effected me, and I'd love the opportunity to share my story and offer advice to others who are facing these kinds of situations.
I came to the church today was baptized do not the scriptures teach that to be saved we have to be baptized?
Hope you can share your story.
So much insight, these videos are more helpful than you probably know - best regards to everyone involved.
I'm an apostate from the Church of Christ and now an atheist myself. Nice to hear an interview with people similar to my background
Listen guys, there are many different churches with the name the Church of Christ, so if you intend to criticize this Church, you need to specifically tell us which one you are talking about, so those of us who are criticizing this Church should specifically tell us which ones you are talking about. I disappointed in a lot of people who are criticizing without knowing which one they are talking about.
And even in the video, they talk about survival week and revivals, the one I attend does not entertain these things.
Baby Duck if your Church says “that church doesn’t know the Truth”, then you might be in the wrong church.
YES EXCATLY
I quit being religious when my grandparents forced me to come to church. Thankfully my family wasn't super religious. My mom never went to church because she was busy going to college against my grandma's wishes. That and also working a job and taking care of us. I still love my mom because she cares for us a lot. My father sadly passed away a few years ago, but I've gotten over that since he didn't provide for the family and he wasted our money. We're now the happiest we've been. I want to thank you for bolstering the facts and bolstering the lies. Thank you.
I know this was highly personal, but I'd like to tell my religious story.
There are 13,000 churches of Christ, no two are identical. I do believe the two accounts given here. You have 12,998 left to explore. What they share in common is the belief that all authority in things Biblical are rooted in Scriptures.
I’m part of a family that has always attended Church of Christ in the Bessemer/Hueytown area of Alabama, and the Churches of Christ there are all quite similar, they even share a few members
AMEN!!! anyone can go anywhere and not feel welcomed or safe but GOD is not the author of confusion. I am sorry that they were at these churches, this does not change the truth and God's law! HE SAID WHAT HE SAID AND HE MEANS IT ALL! There is NO OTHER name under heaven that was given!
BlakLabelEmpire you’ll have to convince us that your God exists before you can make claims about his authority
DC Hunter odds are none of them are right
@@wilezekiel5773 The word of God tells you that God exists and if you don't believe that then there is no hope for you until you do and I pray that some day you will believe. Just looking around at the oceans, mountains, all the different kinds of fishes in the oceans, animal kingdom, etc. I know there is a God and God was the great creator and oh my gosh having a baby is something else in itself. Please read the book of Genesis to see how God created earth and spoke things into existence. I pray that someday you will have an open mind and read the word of God for yourself and one day do what needs to be done when Jesus is preached; Acts 8:35-39 and a church of Christ can help you answer with the word of God what you must do to become a Christian and you will have the peace that passes all understanding. I am not saying that a Christian will not suffer but we will have the Lord to help us deal with anything we are dealing with.
This hit me hard because my best friend and first love committed suicide at fourteen because he was gay. This was in 1984. His father was a Baptist minister. My ultra religious stepmother said he was in hell for killing himself. It messed me up bad.
Love you David! Miss you!
I am so sorry dude... he didn't deserve that treatment. I just hope you're doing ok now.
@@Cometsarecool Thank you. I have come to terms with his death and what my stepmother did. I have peace now.
I’m sorry for your loss! He’s in paradise!
I feel like this is a misrepresentation of the Church of Christ at least the one I attend now and the one I was raised in. All we do is try our best to do the truth and to do Gods will to the best of our ability.
Absolutely... people have the right to their beliefs. They’re not hurting anyone. They’re bashing the church because they know it’s an easy target that won’t get aggressive.
My ex boyfriend was a part of the church of Christ growing up. It absolutely ruined him.
He used to tell this story about a man (who the family is actually still friends with) who took a Walkman CD player (this was in the early 2000s) up in front of the church and smashed it with a sledgehammer, encouraging the church to do the same to all of the technology they owned.
That's stupid!
I’d dare say most CoC are not that extreme. My childhood church of Christ had nothing bad to say about technology or pop culture, except to the extent it encouraged sin, which is like most southern Protestant churches. Although we did have a few old cranks who didn’t like new fangled stuff because it was so worldly.
So you're actually saying they're Amish & not Church of Christ? I've never heard of any Church of Christ with such a teaching or doctrine.
J.L. Herington I have to speculate here but if she is correct that they were CoC then I’m pretty sure it was probably a rural congregation that got fired up about “today’s music” corrupting our youth. This could have happened at any number of Baptist, CoC, Pentecostal, or other fundamentalist churches, especially in the southern U.S. Similar to many church sponsored bon fires fueled by vinyl records, cassette tapes, CDs, books, and pornographic magazines through the years. Not uncommon in the rural south, peaking in the 1950s but not unheard of just a couple of decades ago.
Hey I'm a jw right now and I've been recently questioning the religion I would like to ask some questions if you don't mind.
JackThe Kat
While I'm not former JW, I'd be glad to try take a shot addressing your issues.
I'm a deconverted Catholic.
You may want to get over to Telltale's Discourse, just in case he doesn't see this. He is more than willing to help JWs (acts like the true Christian I was brought up to aim to be. Just without the religion!) He's also got a great back catalogue of JW videos you should watch. Check his descriptions in each video, he often puts links to useful organisations and other channels for JWs. HTH! 🙂
JAck The Kat
Cool name, Rick the Dick doesn't work. JW can be defeated with Isa. 6:1 and John 12:39-41, your JW bible says the being on the throne is Jehovah and John 12 it is JESUS. Join the body of CHRIST and become a biblical believer. The HOLY SPIRIT will guild you.
Have you found answers?
Hideki Ryuga I come back 2 years later to my comment I had no idea people commented on it and yes I found the answers I was looking for and I think this channel has helped me on my path all the pain and hardships I’ve gone through I found answers
I'm a member of the church of Christ. I love it, the one I attend is a great church. We just try to follow what the Bible teaches. :)
No you don't.
Have you sold all your possessions and given the money to the church or the poor? Does your church have all things common?
@@j.d.matthews1226 Does yours?
I don't think anyone here knows anything about Churches of Christ, so many people base their opinions on internet gossip and never step foot inside a church, if you have questions or concerns about any Churches of Christ you should visit those churches ask the preacher what the church believes in, is it a sound church etc.... yes there are some C.o.C that use instrumental music, and have added other things that are not scriptural, yes there's disunity even within the Churches of Christ, are there any religions out there that aren't struggling with similar issues?
I was a member for more than 30 years, all the way from the cradle. I was a minister and missionary. All of these things being said here are completely accurate. So do you wanna try again?
@@j.d.matthews1226 Why did you leave COC
J.D. Matthews So you used to believe baptism was necessary for salvation,what changed your mind. I know of a former minister (COC) and he still attends the CoC I go to and he said he used to be the biggest proponent of baptism so I assume he is like you. When I first asked him what must I do to be saved he said ask another question. I knew then he didn't believe baptism was essential for salvation but he still comes every Sunday, why I do not know; he doesn't let it out what he believes but I know. I believe one is saved by grace through faith and baptism is apart of being justified by faith and the water does not have any power to save; it is Jesus that saves us when we obey Him and we are saved by the working of God. Colossians 2:12. I believe it is at the moment of baptism that one is saved and in baptism we put on Christ and are raised to a new life. Baptism is part of my faith response to the grace of God. Why did you leave coC? Did some legalistic people turn you off or disagreed with something you taught and were mean spirited? I hope this didn't happen to you.
No reason one should leave the church of Christ if we seek to stick to what the Bible says! It depends on how much we respect God's word.
The church of Christ is biblical and I see nothing wrong with their interpretation of the bible.I think you guys want to live your life your way and not God's
My husband was raised Church of Christ. This is definitely a sleeper. I thought it was like any other Church. A lot of the doctrine sounds the same as most mainstream, except they have one detail that destroys the whole thing. They truly believe that if you are not a part of that church, tithe paying card-carrying baptized in their church member, you're going to hell. They're staunch about this. They don't talk about it. But they believe it. They also believe that if you get married and then divorce, you're going to hell. Of course unless your spouse dies. I won't say that all members take this too far, but some do. They will consider options that normal people would not.
Having said that, listening to these stories breaks my heart. In spite of everything, I'm still a Christian, but I firmly believe that people need to walk their own walks. Live their own story. I just don't think everybody goes to hell if they don't go to church or follow a particular prescribed Theology. It doesn't even make sense. I'm sorry these things happened to you all. It really is tragic.
Just in passing, I have a discussion with my father-in-law regarding the music in church. He said that it was because it Didn't appear anywhere in the New Testament. I asked him about King David. he quoted the same scripture in Psalms that this man did, that then! I quoted Psalms 150 which is a virtual band and Orchestra all put together. He said that it was invalid because it didn't appear in the New Testament. I finally said, okay, if you can demonstrate to me scripturally that musical instruments will send you to hell, then I will concede. He pulled out his Bible and talked and talked, then looked kind of worried. Finally he snapped it shut and said it doesn't matter. If God decides to draw the line between the churches who have pianos and the ones who don't, I want to be on the right side. And that was the end of our conversation.
@Russell Day I do accept the Bible for what it is. A load of BULLSHIT. That "instruction book" has killed more people than any other book on the planet. It has held back humanity's evolution and I smile every time I hear about another person waking up and accepting reality. There is no Hell and there is no Heaven. We cease to exist after we die. To suggest that there is such a thing as a soul or an afterlife (good or bad) is the height of human ridiculousness and arrogance.
I am so glad people are less militant about religion in Germany... Or have been since the 30 years war 😉
COC does NOT and I repeat does NOT believe in tithing; we are to give as we have prospered. I am literally so sad that all these people have been so hurt and have so much hatred for the COC and I pray that they would try another one since each is autonomous.
@@0816M3RC I pray that someday you will change your mind. Just think if all this is true and there is a hell.
This is very familiar to me as well. I'm all for doing the right thing but to add to the bible something as a law when it's not is against revelation. So I dont buy it.
As a musician, I would be persona non grata instantly. Sometimes I think about walking in there and asking, "Hi, where do you want me to put this piano?"
Hello Tellale. I am glad that you did this interview. You three are awesome. It must be hard to be an ex-member.
Mrketchup Person. Once you learn a little bit about rational and critical thought, it’s pretty easy to be an ex member. I do feel bad for those who had such deep emotions attached to and fears caused by the church that they’re scarred.
Thank you. Thank you! I was raised in the CoC and, at 67, I am still recovering.
Thank you for this. Theres nothing like being shunned for choosing a different path. Hope and help to hear from others.
I think if I hadn't left I'd have died by suicide because the guilt was too much
Hi. I was Church of Christ for 1 year. They prey on lonely and vulnerable young people. It was the emptiest year of my life. What a waste.
This is not true of all churches of Christ. I am so sorry you were treated this way.
I keep hearing not all congregations are the same which is true but the core tenets are pretty universal
@@ghostmedik Can you tell me what you mean by the CORE TENETS are pretty universal and please use scripture that says what they are teaching is wrong; thanks.
I don't have time to cherry pick scripture but belief in the 10 commandments, homosexuality and/or its actions are wrong, marriage/matrimony is between one man & one woman, baptism by immersion, etc.
@@ghostmedik Scripture please that says baptism by immersion is wrong please. Also when you have time please give scriptures on the others that you say coC teaches wrong; thanks.
please if u ever have any questions and want to talk to anyone else i would answer anything, iwas in the church of christ 30 years, i was forced to go each week 3 times. and it was SO abusive. i have been a member of a few different churches and even went to church of christ camp. my mom was forced too since she was born. my parents started doing church in their house last week and so they kind of left too, i hope.
Same here, except the catalyst for me leaving was finding out that an elders son had molested my younger sister and several other young girls for years. After jail he is still involved in a leadership role in another congregation.
*hugs* same it's hard
My boyfriend is going to get baptized this week by this church and I don’t really know how to convince him that this church isn’t right. Do you have any advice?
@@briannahuseman4787 Just be honest with him
@@briannahuseman4787 Maybe he is going to the church of Christ that is talked about in the bible; Romans 16:16. Christ died for one church and there a several biblical names in the bible of this one church; another is church of God. As long as these biblical named churches are following Jesus and the apostles doctrine he is in the right church and one does not become a member of Christ's church til after baptism as Jesus himself says "He that believes AND is baptized will be saved." Mark 16:15-16 and please read Acts 2"41 and Acts'2:47 says the Lord adds to the church.
I have discovered your videos today and I have been enjoying your discussions about Christianity, especially in regards to the Church of Christ. I grew up in one, riding on “Joy Buses” each Sunday. For much of my life, I was indoctrinated and it definitely seemed like a cult in hindsight. I was a believer but I had doubts pretty early on. I remember one member I was friends with was ostracized for playing music with instruments in his church and he moved away. I was also at odds with the “we are the only church and all others are wrong.”
I didn’t really feel truly alienated until college where I got plugged into a religious group on-campus supported by local Churches of Christ. At the time, I found it difficult to get employment and relied on money from school. I also didn’t own a car, but somehow the leadership felt they needed to insert themselves in my finances and told me to stop buying video games. In fact one of them told me to save money for car tires….like wtf!
There was another moment where one of the leaders criticized me for drinking a soda on a trip despite everyone else having soft drinks (but was specifically singled out because I was obese).
Gaslighting is the norm and public shaming is even used in some COCs.
I never felt like I belong in that religion and shunning members are the normal. Some pretend to be your friends but they really don’t care about you.
It must have been in 2012 when I left the church and religion for good and only a few people I met are truly friends. I have even less now since I came out as a trans woman over 2 years ago. (Fun fact…one pastor from my first COC church asked me about my genitals and if I was getting bottom surgery as if he thought that was okay asking someone he barely knew). I doubt they will let me sit foot in their churches, but I am okay with that honestly. I also have to still unpack so much anxiety and depression as a result of the Church of Christ.
I'm a CoC member....Sad to hear all that I heard.....All CoC is not created equal and that's sad to say also but much luck to all..
If they're the one true church, why are they not all identical?
Because men get in the way of truth...
My grandmother almost sucked me into this church and she frequently choose the church over our actual family. I still have trauma from going to Church of Christ summer camps. It was so subtle in it's tactics by just.... implanting in your head that you aren't good enough unless you were baptized.
Hey man. Current member of the CoC here. I would love to talk on here with you sometimes if you want some answers from a guy who isn't going to force anything on you. Just wanting to debunk some of the myths about the CoC
I think it would be better content to talk with someone who is still currently in the CoC instead of those who left and are clearly on your side of the argument
One other thing. The guy who compared Lonnie Jones to Hitler... I don't care if he only meant by his speaking abilities, that is an insult and he should be ashamed.
I am what you call an "Ex Hardline coc member". Always here if you want to talk whether that be on your podcast or through online sources 👍✝
I was living with my fiancé (my husband of 42 years now) for about 6 months before our wedding. My mother just now told me the church (Church of Christ) had discussed disfellowshipping me during that time. The preacher (now deceased) stood up for me and shut that down. What a shame my parents did not stand up for me. I am shattered and completely disillusioned.
Thank you for this interview. I was a member in the International Churches of Christ for 10 years and thankfully was able to escape. It was damaging to me, but I'm on the mend, thankfully. Interviews like this helps in that healing process: just sharing their experiences and how they were able to get out.
I once went to a church with a friend of mine. I have no idea home her mom found this church, and I can't remember the name. They were "planting" it when I started going to it. They practically made me pray with them. The last Sunday of the month they had pizza and told people to invite their friends. Also on your first visit if you donated some money they would give you a $5 Starbucks gift card. I was sitting in some of their meetings, and they told us how they planned their meetings. Oh, and they spoke in tongues. Scared the heck out of me. Also her mom said that schizophrenia was of the devil (my friend also had schizophrenia). She died of a blot clot, I'm so mad because they thought they could pray it away.
I was born and raised in the church of Christ. There is absolutely NO speaking in tongues there, it had to be another church.
Have you thought about possibly doing an interview with former female members of the CoC denomination? My great grandfather started a congregation in our area 70+ years ago and I grew up in a church where 99% of the members are related to me. I was never really a part of the clique because I was “weird” and asked too many questions. I went to church camp in Kentucky when I was 12 (Taylor Christian Camp is beyond awful). I wasn’t allowed to go swimming on our only free day because I was on my period. I was also punished for commenting when our day teacher was explaining to the class why the New King James Version of the Bible is the only translation you’re allowed to read because “nothing can be added or taken away from the Bible”. I interrupted her lesson with “then why aren’t we reading it in Greek?” 😂 I had to scrub toilets with no gloves on after that. One day later I stole my phone from the camp counselor and called home, demanding to be picked up. My parents finally came to get me but only when the week was over. I never went back.
I had a similar experience to Mark, my brother outed me to our assistant preacher when I was a teenager and I was shunned publicly for many years until I “finally” married a man (I’m bisexual). Recently I was allowed back in, but because my husband doesn’t believe in the way they treat women we’ve been very openly ostracized, especially by my mother. I just wonder how the experiences of other women might be.
Your mother didn’t like that your husband doesn’t approve of how they treat women? Personally I find it encouraging that a man (such as your husband) cares about how women are treated. As a woman in the C of C, I have always felt like I wasn’t as worthy in the eyes of God because I was born female. It baffles me how some women say, “well I’ve never felt like I was second class.” 😳. I am still very much a Christian and accept that Men and women are different but the restrictions placed on women are extreme and often unbiblical.
The only thing we were taught about sex is... don’t have it until you’re married. I literally thought I was going to be killed or something the first time I had sex, which was in college lol 😂 Crazy to think of now. We weren’t allowed to date until we were 18
Quite a few CoC defenders in the comments. As a former CoC member for 25 years, these guys are accurate as fuck. The only solace I have for the years of mental abuse endured under this backward thinking denomination is that the church is slowly dying out. When I went as a kid we averaged 200 people every Sunday. My parents still go and they're down to about 60 now. Anybody in here defending CoC are delusional. Fallacies all over the place. "Well MY church isn't like that." Yeah it is...you just don't see it because you're part of the problem.
good podcast. If you had a woman on the panel it could have brought some clarity in the way they are treated. One CoC I attended as a child, women were not allowed to wear anything but dresses/skirts. Another CoC the men held a meeting as to at what point women were to be silent. Should it be in the parking lot, lobby, sanctuary? Disgusting.
I love you channel it's amazing it make me fell more normal I'm an atheist with an entirely religious family
I haven’t been to a Church of Christ congregation since my mom passed away. I have been questioning a lot before she passed away but I tried to keep it to myself knowing how devote she was. I now appreciate this virus because it gives me a reason to not go that can’t be argued. I don’t argue but I absolutely HATE the judgment. The high and mighty mess. I’m spiritual but I don’t follow these people anymore. None of them.
My mom and dad raised me in the church but my dad is definitely more laid back than my mom was growing up. The fear is what kept me docile and scared to even question things. They are passive aggressive for sure.
Unbelievable how similar all these cults are in their control techniques. It's amazing how life can be when you reject fear.
Wow. This is so perfect. As a minor who is forced to go to the Church of Christ, this is so true and perfect.
Keep questioning
I hope you never gave in to them
Hope you manage to escape. I did. It gets better, but there may still be lasting trauma.
Read, read, read. Learn where the Bible came from, study science, read about other cultures and their beliefs. Don’t let them tell you that education is evil. It will free you. Hang on. ❤️
@@AlanCanon2222 Church of Christ is not like JW, we don't force you to do anything. You have the freedom to do anything you like. And mind, every church of Christ is autonomous so if you had a bad experience in your congregation, don't generalise it. Thank you.
I believe it depends on what Church of Christ your talking about. I wasn't raised Church of Christ, But became a member of a Church of Christ because of my Personal studys. The Church I attended dosen't teach fire and brimstone perpetually, but we go into deep issues like current events and how some issues in the world try to destroy the family, the world warping the minds men and boys to become defective women and women and girls becoming defective men. Men can't be men anymore because now if you demonstrate masculinity you are seen as portraying toxic masculinity. As an individual, personally, I dress with dark heavy clothing like heavy metal heavy and I have long hair. The people at the Church I attend love me not because of my outward appearance, but because of my heart, and yes I am a trained musician, and no we don't use instruments, but I know why in deep knowledgeable level. What I seen this interview is that these men have the peragdime of there minds warped. Wheather you were raised or converted it is up to you to Study The Scriptures to properly vet the Churches you attended, yes I understand some mental and emotional scarring has been done. However, as adults there needs to be healing and understanding of your past traumas to move forward. What I would suggest is that people do a deep study by themselves in the Scripture and properly vet the Churches they are in, all Churches are different, some have ultra conservative others are ultra liberal and in beatween. Some Churches isolate have reguris restrictions, other Churches have what I call "anything goes" kind of feel. I know this because The Church of Christ I attended encourages us to visit other Churches to see what they are like and what they teach. All I want personally is Real Truth, and the Real Truth is always transparent never watered down or toxic like poison that will make you brain fatigue and brain washed. I know the Journey isn't easy, but your not trees you can move from Church to Church, If I were in a Church of Christ that these men discussed about I would at any prepared and planned moment leave, and join another Church of Christ that wasn't the same. That takes alot of patience and preparing to just get out, but is do able. There is more I can say, but my finally I would like to say seek wisdom, knowledge and understanding because that's what I did and things become so much clearer and you get to enjoy life better because for me my struggle less, I understand why I go threw things in life and I become stronger, and it's hard for bad people to hurt you and out do you with diception with such Wisdom, knowledge and understanding.
@Unchained
What does "men being men" mean to you and your church? Marrying the youngest youth group member you can legally get away with in your local jurisdiction, then showing her the back of your hand and bloodying her face whenever she dares "talk back" to you, because of Paul's writings on the subject? Curb stomping gay people, or driving gay teens to suicide? I grew up in the churches of Christ more than 30 years ago. I know exactly what you teach should be done to any human being who doesn't live up to your idea of what they should be. After all, God's going to burn them forever, anyway, so you feel fully justified in getting your verbal, physical and/or sexual abuse in on them in the meantime. Fuck your "we're actually nice" attitude. Those of us who were raised in it know that your niceness is a cover to suck people in to your cruel, sadomasochistic cult.
What course of self study could possibly lead you to embrace what you've become? The Marquis de Sade?
When I was after of the CoC I didnt feel like I had much friends. And most the time I only mainly spoke to one older lady that was my mom.
I would be interested to hear from women who leave these churches and what they deal with (I am a recovering ex-several-religious-beliefs before I finally allowed myself to face the fact that I lack the 'belief gene' and I stopped trying to find God or whatever is supposed to be out there. If God or whatever is out there, they will need to find me because I am 'belief disabled' and don't 'get it'). Seriously though, I think women have a harder time and have more to lose in a lot of situations. They need to be heard also and I hope you will look into doing that one day.
I'm a 29 year old woman, I married into the Church of Christ coming from a broken family, and I've been in for almost 11 years. At this point, I firmly believe it's a cult. But I'm completely stuck. I have 4 children, and no resources. Women are highly discouraged from working, I can hardly have any relationships outside the church, and I'm heavily monitored by my husband, and the rest of the church. I have no place to go if I leave, so I stay for now.
Ka. S. Stay strong! I hope you find a way out somehow very soon.
@@ka.s.55
Its so sad to see you limited thusly, I hope you will be able to free your self and children from it.
@@ka.s.55 Good Evening The Church has no right to prevent women from working.
💙 *quality content* 💙
I normally don't watch videos this long but it's you, so i knew it'd be good. And i was not wrong! Every second of this is interesting and insightful ☺
Thank you TellTale. You really are criminally under-subbed.
~ Owl
Discern the difference between the outwardly "religious" and the spiritually born again . Big difference.
@@TheQueenmellie Please give scripture on how you believe one is saved; thanks,
I think religion is quite important for some people, and it can be helpful for anyone.
But as soon as religion is organized it gets messed up
Becoming too dependent on something especially if it cant be demonstrated to be true can be very dangerous. Religious dogma is a scary thing as well.
@@jmanpolo5611 sometimes humans need to dream to make reality a bearable place.
And if your dream is a god, I'm not judging.
If your dream god puts up ridiculous laws and you think you n everyone is going to face eternal torture if you break the rules.... thats clearly too far.
Just bc one indian scamcalled you doesn't mean all Indians are scammers.
And aren't we all quite dependent on our own way of sorting out the world? There is no independence in that way, the ability to adapt is key tho.
Knowing that your way isnt superior to anyone elses n we're all different thus cope different with reality
Some have no issue knowing that the dead are dead, some need to imagine they're still there.
@@littleloner1159 fair points.. people still need to be cautious.
I was a minister in progressive churches of Christ for 31 years. I was finally fired and run off because 3 of my 6 children I adopted from Russia are gay, because I discovered the elders were covering up an affair by the preacher, and because I was willing to question the elders. They threatened to withhold $32,000 of severance pay if I continued to attend church there. This was not a hellfire and Brimstone type of Church of Christ. One thing that I think is consistent from the most progressive to the most conservative churches of Christ is that the elders have a completely dysfunctional dictatorial method of church leader ship within their local congregation. I think the best thing that could happen would be for churches of Christ to cease to exist.
Just wanna say, the church of Christ of the 70s did so much damage to the mission of the church of Christ as a whole with all the hellfire and brimstone. I’m a member today, and just want to say that many congregations are working really hard to undo that damage that was done.
Another ex C.O.C. member, I deconstructed from the religion, because I had questions about if God, angels, or demons really existed, which stemmed from the fact that I saw none of my prayers being answered. I remember that the people were really nice, but my problem became the fact that they thought that their particular section of Christianity was the only section which interpreted the documents correctly. This smacks as a cult. If some of you can remember, they even had a tract, 'Why the church of Christ is not a cult.' Well, I think that's quite telling, of a group which isolates all other theological perspectives throughout the centuries of Christianity.
get a shot for every "that is fascinating"
Great video. It is really nice to be able to hear people's experiences and their thoughts.
+39:34 I heard that line so many times from my dad when it came to metal, grunge, or psychedelic rock from the 60's and 70's ...I mean he's calmed down so much now but that line always got me frustrated, These interviews are so amazing I feel so comforted to know that my experiences with the church were similar to other ex-religious folk
My mother was raised in a Church of Christ church by a mother who ate up the hellfire and brimstone message. My mother was completely turned off of church in general by the whole experience. She's 80 years old, and to this day, the only reason she'll even set foot inside a church is for a wedding or a funeral. CoC turned my mother off of God completely; it's sad.
I was indoctrinated into Coc when i was in 4th grade. My math teacher was a deacon. Turns out im a bit too sassy for thier liking. I remember the day i left. The pastor was saying the catholics are going to hell , the jews are going to hell... I just stood up and walked out.
You should do a video about Awana.
Awana isn't a cult... It's like Campfire Kids... Kids hear Bible stories, eat cheese crackers and play basketball..
Sounds like VBS, vacation _Bible_ school.
Love watching your videos,very informative and you definitely do your homework.Where as one can’t say having faith in a religion is a good thing or bad.As we all know historically more bloodshed has been a result of religion than anything else,There are still many people who as a result of religious upbringing took to heart the moral and civil teachings and do many good things.So in that regard sometimes the end justifies the means,and everything even science is a double edged sword.So if it gets you through the night its alright.Stay gold TTA stay gold.
Need to be lighten the truthful way.. WVBS, GBN, Apologetics Press
I was in the Church Of Christ until my mom left the Church and my father when I was around 8, but continued to be indoctrinated by the Christian church in general until I was 18.
I still remember at age 7 how bad the pressure was to get baptized. And how much I had to hide growing up.
Yeah. I honestly think CoC beats out JW in a lot of cases (no listening to any music with instruments, no playing musical instruments, weird beliefs surrounding angels and nephilim, constant and militant misogyny, aswell as demoralizing young men they didn't deem good enough).
I'm not entirely sure how much the Church was involved with my father distancing himself from my brother and my mom, but continuing to reach out to me and try and pull me back in (I honestly don't want to get into it here, but several elders had weird ideas about me in particular). The New England Church of Christ community is very extremist & I encourage you to please seek out and speak to more Church of Christ survivors. I'd be happy to.
Very confused about all of this. I grew up in church of Christ and I’ve never had any issues other than normal Christianity bs. Everyone encouraged me to learn about it myself, do my own research, and question everything about it. None of my friends are church of Christ members and honestly these horror stories just make me confused as to why my church is so different (not a bad thing) from other church of Christ churches
Although, church of Christ went through MASSIVE reform in the 80s-90s, and they openly admit their misguided views from back then (At least mine does/did)
Edit: I should add that I have literally never heard of revival week, and much of the conversations/debates I hate with my youth minister and pastor involved lots of metaphysical philosophy and apologetics, my youth minister and pastor actually had me read arguments against the Bible just so that I could understand the other side.
Gospel meetings
There just out doing what satan comanding them too! There blasphiming the church jesus said that he was going to build (math. 16:18) they'll do & say anything to destroy or slander the CoC & baptism as a whole they lie and distort the truth because they are working with &for satan h es sent them a strong delusion! and satan is extremely smart! you can't put the Jehovah's witness and the CoC in the same sentence! These guys don't know ik that they just doing what there master says do and that's to turn people against the Bible and the 1st century church the only church that was built by jesus and the church jesus shed his blood for! Im sorry Not sorry these guys have the freedom to practice whatever religious denomination they want to but in gods house god will be worshiped how he wants to be worshiped!
I was a member until I started doing investigation of the world around me and educated myself through books and college...I remember one time in a service a preacher said he should spot in the congregations face for their sins.. I remember being ten at that time ...standing up and saying give it a try and see what happens 👌🤣😭😭 the rest was history lol.
Good for you. I also spoke out, and got choked out by my elder dad for my troubles, then made to apologize to the person I'd "wronged".
The Church Of Christ is called Iglesia ni Cristo in my country, its huge, there’s churches everywhere, my uncle was in it with his wife but thankfully they left the cult very early.
Are you talking about the church in the Phillippians?
“Shunning” is limited to an individual who is engaged in some Biblically specific immorality, while publicly presenting yourself as member of the church. If you go on the record of not representing the church then ‘disfellowship’ is no longer needed. You simply aren’t a member of the Church.
I hear "as the dear" and i actually have flashbacks to my church of christ experience. I'm diagnosed with cptsd from it. Cptsd means complex post traumatic stress disorder. It comes from repeated inescapable traumas. For many years my youth group ignored me and would not talk to me because i was not baptized, many of the adults would make fun of me and other children for asking questions. If you got in trouble you would be backed into a corner and yelled at by an adult who towered over you, threatening kids with a belt was also common. My schizophrenia was never treated growing up because i heard the voice of god and my delusions weren't demons, but they were the holy spirit and the devil.
I also got kicked out of a church of christ summer camp because they assumed i was gay and was acting on it (my only act was carrying a passed out girl to the nurse)
The church of christ is incredibly harmful and dangerous to children, especially mentally ill children.
Many of the preachers "hear the word of god" or receive commands from him actually have ocd and/or psychosis.
Edit: "as the deer" is a song sung very often in the church of christ
Awww I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can't believe they accuse you of such things. I'm glad I'm away from it too. It has ruined me as well. It's their fault for my intense anxiety where I always think someone is angry at me or something.
Hope you're doing better. There's a lot of good Bible teachers around.
This is so terrible and I go to a church of Christ and we are nothing like this; so sad.
@@jreyas6263 Why would any of us ever need a good Bible teacher? I know everything I need to know about the Bible from a) reading it b) reading scholarly criticism of it c) my own testimony and those like the fellow victims represented here. Comments like yours are like telling a 14 year old incest rape victim that she just needs to choose a better pedophile uncle next time.
@@lindahutchens8612 I'm getting the impression that "Church of Christ" here probably refers to a specific subset of the churches that call themselves that. Kinda like how "Christian Scientist" is referring to a member of a part of a specific religious group of loonies, not all Christians who are scientists.
Awesome podcast!..Being raised a JW since 6 y/o I can relate on many levels!..Thanks to all for sharing a part of their "Cult Life" with the community! I know that it will help save so many lives.
Just a suggestion...Make this a "Sunday's Podcast" on this channel...This would be neat!
I am a way late on this broadcast, I know that. I am NOT defending all of the Churches of Christ by any means. I am a Church of Christ member myself. I apologize for the actions of these other churches, I really do. I have no idea what "branches" or "divisions" of Church of Christ are being referred to, but the one I attend, and the ones that I am associated with do not act like that. In fact, Lonnie Jones is not allowed to speak at our church at all, period. Yes, our church does have its problems, and I will talk about those problems, we are not perfect. I am so sorry these guys went through that. It's horrible.
I always love discussions like these, learning about what other Churches are like on the inside.
This is not an accurate account of what the church is.
Man, Mark has amazing taste in music. I love Rammstein, Korn and all them. Very nice! (I know that isn't on topic, it's just so awesome to find other people who like Rammstein.)
Woah, I didn't realize how long this video was or how long I've been listening until I checked
1. It's not called revival, it's called Gospel Meeting. It may seem like splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction. 2. True c of C do not have any governing body outside of the congregation. 3. No Christian congregation is going to encourage "heavy metal, rap, etc." The c of C only takes a stand on instruments within worship and/or the church building. 4. Not using instruments in worship does NOT come from Psalms. It comes from zero mention of instruments in the New Testament church. 5. The discussion on the Jesus twist was hilarious and spot on. 6. LOVE THE FINAL THOUGHTS.
I grew up "in the church". I had a somewhat weird church upbringing, because we didn't go to one specific church. My mom was a music teacher, and would take jobs as a choir director for various churches. We were technically Methodist (where I was baptized the first time). We went to a Presbyterian church for a while, and then to an Assembly of God church. We ended up back at the Methodist church when I was in middle school, and the church had an identity crisis. I decided to go to an American Baptist church on my own, before deciding to stop going to church altogether.
My mom eventually decided to go to seminary, and became a Methodist minister.
In college, I got a job as the soloist of a Christian Science church, while going to a liberal Lutheran college.
It is so difficult to think of Lutherans as Liberal (not that letting his ex-nun wive earn the "family" income was too representing), while he endorsed feudalism.
@@fionafiona1146 I am not an expert, so don't take my word as infallible. There are currently five branches of the Lutheran church, and they are pretty wildly different. The most liberal branch is the ELCA, or the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. They are pro women, pro LGBT, and moderately pro choice (the official stance is if it's for health reasons/rape/incest, abortion is a morally acceptable choice). They have women and LGBT clergy.
The college I went to, California Lutheran University is affiliated with the ELCA, but is nonsectarian. They embrace diversity in all forms, and are a fairly progressive school.
While Martin Luther may not have been "liberal" and some of the modern Lutheran denominations are definitely conservative, not all of them are.
As a German, the Lutheran Church is quite prominent in our religious makeup ("Christians" that aren't Lutherans or Catholics make up as close to 5% of people as Muslims and Jews respectively).
Having half our religious people allow women to preach I "progressive" until you realise how nothing much else changed in the last 500 years.
I only meant to say it's surprising to me, not that it want the case. Reading comments helps me see different perspectives.
Thanks for the explanation.
Funny thing about love, there’s no end to the crazy we will all swallow to be with someone. That said, any religion who makes someone have to ask why God doesn’t love them, cannot be right.
Get to the core of the matter. The Church of Christ is based upon the Gospel of Christ and the Salvation Jesus offers. Don't look at the people, but the Word of God. People are not perfect - Jesus is!
Read the Word and establish a relationship with Jesus. Keeping it real!!! Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Life. No one goes to the Father except through the Son! Study to show yourself approved into God. Know God's Word for yourself!
I agree
@@cheriesmith5140 I know it's difficult to separate the person from who they wish to follow. Human behavior is fallible, but we may want Jesus in our lives, because in his Word there is promise of eternal life in heaven for those who are in Christ Jesus. I'm sure if you go to another congregation you won't experience that. Family can scar us and make our belief systems distorted. But always know that Jesus Christ died for our sins and those who obey the Gospel, love God and love their neighbor the way He showed us, should serve God with a Christ-like attitude. I pray that you rededicate your life to Christ.
The bible says you judge a tree by its fruit....
Mark’s story reminds me soooo much of my experience in high school when I came out to my Mormon best friend who had always been supportive and friendly in every other situation who suddenly did a 180° telling me that she was 100% sure my attraction to girls was a choice, that me openly dating a girl who made me happy was a choice, and that it was THE WRONG choice. She told me I was sinful, that she personally believed and would do anything in her power to ensure that I would never be able to marry or have children (at least with a female partner), and that my relationship and sexuality in general would ruin nice straight people’s marriages and families somehow. She refused to touch or sit too close to me all the way until I moved to a new town. All this for the relationship of a 13 year old with absolutely nothing more physical happening than the occasional make out session. Destroying marriage. Ruining families. Bringing down religion. Bc two bi teenagers held hands.
Psalm 150: 3-6" Praise him with trumpets. Praise him with harps and lyres. Praise him with drums and dancing. Praise him with harps and fluted. Praise him with cymbals. Praise him with loud cymbals. Praise the LORD, all living creatures".
The bible clearly says it is acceptable to use musical instruments in worship.
We aren’t under the old covenant any longer, we are under the new covenant.
@@loveneverfails6811but aren't you supposed to speak where the bible speaks and be silent where the bible is silent? Irony is a funny thing lol
hahaha. I'm listening to this as I have some red wine.
If I had some bourbon ready, I'd clink yer glass over the Internet. Here's to being FREE.
King David in the story played the harp; that was why Saul kept him around. How do they know that he didn't use it to accompany the psalms?
As I recall, being very ex CoC, there was a saying, "where the bible speaks, we speak, where the bible is silent, we are silent." The problem being that they, like most god followers, severely cherry picked where they would speak or be silent to their own advantage.
Also, that was Old Testament. New Testament apparently is the age of the church.
A couple of us got tired of the way churches were ran. We created our own in my living room and read from the bible. My best friend was the pastor and his mom was COC. When my best friend past away, his mom had the COC pastor to do his funeral. This man barely said anything about my best friend and all he talked about was the mom and their church. for 99.9% of the service. I was literally sitting there waiting for my dead friend to roll over in this coffin. Worst funeral ever!
Much love💙 Keep up the amazing work!
Ah lovey, a Telltale video about my (non)denomination. To be clear, I’m atheist and was never baptized, so technically I’ve never been Christian according to Chruch of Christ understanding, I was just raised in it all my life, and became atheist in the last year or so. I can’t come out to my family because it would likely turn my mother totally against me or destroy her mentally, or both.
The nondenomination bit is so accurate. Lol. They are so blatantly one but it hurts their feelings so much. I'm sorry you're in that situation, hold out till you can get out. It's worth it.
Same here... born and raised in the church.
Here are some basic beliefs of the Conservative Church of Christ. Gambling, dancing, and consuming any alcohol are sins. So is using instrumental music in worship, having any sort of social gathering inside the church building, and using money from the treasury to support any institutions or using it to help the needy if they are not members. You MUST be baptized to be saved, and you lose your salvation over one sin. You HAVE to go every time the congregation meets. If you miss a service, it's sin. They usually meet at least 3 times a week at the church building, and other places for bible studies, 'singings', etc. If you are unrepentant of sin you are "withdrawn from" or disfellowhipped/shunned. They control your thoughts, actions, the way you dress; especially women and girls, and completely cut you off if you 'sin' or leave the church. They have a polarized us-vs-them mentality. They use shame and guilt to control members. It's not a good place.
The arguments are weak at best. It was explained to me that gambling is wrong because God wants you to work for money, not try and get it for nothing. Alcohol because we're supposed to be "sober minded" at whatnot. Dancing? Well, the best and only explanation I've seen for that one is just that it can lead to sin, because of the way you move and how you are to the opposite sex. Married couples shouldn't even dance in front of their children because it leave them with sinful ideas.
@Russell Day "You have to realize that some individuals take and alter what is written to satisfy their own egos and set up different congregations." This is precisely why the Bible shouldn't be taken seriously. The Old Testament and the New Testament were clearly written by different writers and with different agendas in mind.
@@ka.s.55 Didn't Jesus drink wine?
@@Skadi609 Sort of. While we translate several different words in the bible to just wine, there were actually several different words in greek, representing different states of fruit juice. Supposedly, what Jesus drank, turned from water, etc, was all a non-alcoholic version.
My husband and his family are Church of Christ. The one they attend is not like this. They are politically conservative in a very conservative region, and while some of their beliefs are antiquated and/or sexist, they are not as extreme as what you experienced. Each Church of Christ is different and independent. Their church believes that it's not sinful to drink, smoke, gamble, or dance. They believe in moderation and in exhibiting behavior that does not smack of hypocrisy. For example, my husband could not stay the night at my home before marriage, regardless of what actually occurred there, due to the assumption of what would be happening if he did so. It's okay to divorce, but you can only remarry if infidelity was a factor in your previous marriage. They do not require strict attendance. They had no problem with me marrying into the family. Although I don't adhere to or attend their church, I'm not condemned to hell because I married one of theirs. Once a month, they skip evening Sunday service and have an afternoon potluck instead. While many traditions may be similar, it seems behavioral doctrine really just depends on the local elders.
Hearing the joke about CoC and heaven, followed by the brief discussion of dancing, reminds me of an old Mennonite joke we used to have; "Why can't Mennonites have sex standing up?"..."Cuz it might lead to dancing."
The good thing is freewill. Now that all of you are adults, you will be accountable solely for your choices.