Just when I think I knew everything about my BMPCC, I completely forgot they mentioned this feature when buying it. Now I have another way to get maximum quality out of it, thanks so much
being a noob with the 6k pro, or with film cameras in general, I find your videos most useful. I come from DSLR and mirrorless cameras, and I am so happy about your channel. It helps me a lot. Thank you so much MVP.
Coming from the world of photography, i got to adust for videography and this tip helped me a lot. Then i go back to photo and it changed my understanding of how digital ISO works in both world.
It is worth thinking about going UP in iso (to like 800) in bright sunlight, because all the shadowed areas receive plenty of ambient light, and the extra stop (vs. 400) above middle grey helps toning down the harsh highlights in post. Note that if you do that, 6 stops of ND filters will not be enough to keep you at f/2.0 AND 180° shutter angle at 24fps. You will need an extra 2 stops for that, so a mattebox and a ND 0.6 filter is still recommended (besides that it gives you somewhere to stick your blackmist/streak filters).
Thanks! wanted to ask this as a question. So in addition, since the nd of the bmpcc6kpro doesnt have a well IR cut, ik planning om getting Nisi filterset. Then use that irnd ikstead of the bm one. You agree with that take or go half on both.
I’d recommend investing in the Tilta mirage matte box with the variable ND filter (motorized and manual) which, along with the built in ND filters, will give you complete control.
Great timing for the video. I was looking into this subject. I felt like all I know about ISO was wrong. I also have BMPCC 6k Pro and I'm a bit confused about some of the shots I have. I think, the next stop on this topic would be examples of situations and matching iso options for those situations. Like which iso would be good on twilight, or sunsets, or backlit daylight or putting the sun on our back. Exactly what levels of exposure considered to have good amount of details. That would be the key video for this topic.
Appreciate it! I plan to do a video on that here soon, I talked some about it in the last one I did for the P4K but need to do a follow up with examples. Good idea!
Perfect idea! Would also be cool to go through the light intensity / position and ISO you used to make this video! just picked up a 6k pro and i’m envisioning my lighting/space to be similar to how it is here (to obtain a moody vibe) while mixing some music 🎶 but it’s not clear to me if for a setup like this i should go with 400 or 3200 ISO
Small correction: this camera along with the 4k only has two analog iso, not two different systems. Within those two isos, each stop is like increasing and decreasing exposure in post meaning it's fully digital and away from the analog domain of the sensor. That's why you can change the iso in post but not go from iso 1600 to iso 100. They're two different analog isos which aren't possible to change in post. Old canons had multiple analog isos but that severely limited the dynamic range above a certain iso.
Great explanation! Just upgraded from my Canon 5D mark II - Loving my black magic, and didn't understand the concept of dual ISO. Now I do! Thanks man. Great quality content. Keep it up!
Glad it was helpful! It tends to be a hard topic to grasp, especially if you ask in a forum where there are like 50 different answers. To me this is the easiest and best way to understand it. Hope to see you around the channel and good luck with your awesome new camera!
@@FrameVoyager true but now you're talking apples and oranges. The g2 looks a bit more harsh vs filmic. IMO. The last time I used one they color sci wasn't updated either so it was a bit more difficult to match.
learned a lot from you channel while expecting my 6k pro tomorrow. I’m switching from Sony a6400 and I’m quite excited cause I love colorgrading and kinda scared as I’m complete newbie with manual focus :D Thanks for sharing your knowledge. People often forget that we are just humans and every single one of us has it’s own opinion and that we have always take info, but not for granted. So less trolls, more goals 🙏🏼
Hi! I was in a similar boat - I am so so happy I changed from Sony. Using manual focus makes you a better film maker! Plus imperfections are perfect :D
Man, I should have watched this when I first got my 6K pro a couple months ago. I shot a music video in very low light locations and was wondering why everything was grainy as hell 🤦🏻♂️ but this really helped, and your footage is incredible!
It just takes a little bit to get used to it! This camera works slightly different than others. But if you stay on your native ISO's you'll generally be fine!
Appreciate it! That shot is at the Bonneville Salt Flats that are right outside of Salt Lake City, UT. It's usually just dry salt for as far as you can see but when we went this time it was during the winter and it was a thin layer of water, maybe like 6-9inches deep for miles out. Made it look like you were walking on water and the reflections were insane
@@zallesproductions me neither! An incredible surprise actually. We went out there expecting no water and it turned out to be even better than what we expected!
Hey man, thank you so mutch for these “Perles”(info)! When i watched this video, i felt like i’v known nothing! 😅 But i was thinking would it be posible 4 u to make a video with semples, te get in some lowlight and highlight situation, and to show us as how you operate the diferent ISO levels from your camera screen acording to the light of each situation? I think with that video we would realy, fully understand! Respect and all the best! 👋🏼
Q : Awesome video! Of course it would depend on the exposure level but generally speaking which do you personally use more in dark situations 1250 or 3200iso? A : Typically I would use 3200 ISO because I have more room to work with and I like the expose for that better than a lower ISO like 1250. I'll have to do that sometime! ***Your answer to the 3200 vs 1200 comparison For cinematography, I'm wondering if ISO 3200 is better than ISO1250 for nighttime indoor shots with lighting. ISO3200 is always handy for shooting, but when image quality is a priority, which is better for noise, 3200 or 1250? I'm using daVinci Resolve and am curious about the denoising results between 3200 and 1250. I've always been curious about the benefits. Finally, thank you so much for your good video!
1250 ISO will give you the most stops below middle gray. This means that in that second iso range, 1250 would favor less noise in darker scenes at the expense of your highlights.
Hi, thank you for this video. In my opinion it's a great chance the different distribution of the stops (depending on the ISO). I can shoot to 1000 ISO in a sunny day with many clouds and achieve the clouds. But if i have also a subject in backlight, for example, i can't shoot to 1000 ISO because there is too much noise in the shadows. This fact reduces the power of these camera. I have a Ferrari, but i can't push the accelerator. However, i notice that this problem affects more the 6K and 6K Pro than the 4K. I don't know why. In my opinion there is a problem in GEN 5. It's like they've pushed too hard the flateness of the image, like Sony with the S-Log 3 (more flat -> more noise). But is a fantasy of my buggy brain. I noticed however that Pocket 6K Pro is more noisy, and i see more noise to 800 ISO as compared to Pocket 4K. I can solve a bit this problem opening the exposure, because Pocket 6K Pro holds better the highlights, in my opinion. But in this case i can't apply the Extended Video LUT, because it results too much overexposed (without clipping, of course). So, i have to make a specific LUT for the scenes where i have to achieve more stops over the middle gray. I think this could be a good compromise. This camera is not a 'run and gun' camera, i know... And the price also tells me about the limits. What a sad ending... :(
I have the same issue or i noticed the same thing but i'm not quite sure if it is the GEN 5, the Sensor itself or the processor which causes this "Problem". Ofc smaller sensors tend to be more noisier than Full Frame Sensors because of its physical structure but even on a APS-C type camera like the Fujifilm X-T4 i didnt have that much of a problem with the noise in F-Log on an Atomos like i would on the BMPCC 6K Pro. (Yes, i know RAW is noisier than ProRes). unfortunately like u mentioned the price tells the limit of the camera.... but still i love the camera i never had such a beautiful image coming out of a camera so i stick with it for little bit before i upgrade to somethin else...
Kind of a preference thing tbh. Like there are times I will film at 1250 ISO in really dark situations, but a lot of time I'll leave it at 3200 ISO. But it's really about assessing the situation and then using your prior experience with the camera to adjust to the correct exposure. I recommend native ISO's because you really can't go too wrong exposing for them, but as you get used to exposing with the camera, start experimenting with the ISO levels for sure!
Awesome video! Of course it would depend on the exposure level but generally speaking which do you personally use more in dark situations 1250 or 3200iso? If you could give an example with false color it would be awesome
Typically I would use 3200 ISO because I have more room to work with and I like the expose for that better than a lower ISO like 1250. I'll have to do that sometime!
Thanks for the great vid! And do you set exposer with a LUT on or off? I know with BRAW it doesnt affect the metadata captured, but for me its difficult to determine the correct levels if the LUT is off, like which ND to use, etc
It depends, but typically yes. I'll like to see what it looks like with the LUT on when I expose but I'll always rely on the false color more so than the monitor. A lot of time I feel like shots come out darker than they look in camera
So I’m getting on board with this way of thinking about ISO, but this leads me to wonder about what’s going on with braw then since you can alter your ISO in post? When you change it in Davinci does it also effect the stops above and below middle grey? Or does that mean that in the end it doesn’t really matter in raw since you can always change it in post? Or is it really just for reference in camera so you can know how much light to feed the sensor? Thanks and appreciate your videos!
Appreciate it! Um... I would personally never use 100 ISO if I'm being honest. I just think the footage starts looking really weird no matter what you film at that level.
I have one strange question: Let's say I am filming RAW in a dark situation, then I use the iso 800 (which will bring a lot of noise to shadows). Is this noise likely to 'disappear' from my footage if I switch the ISO back to 100 in Resolve? Did you get my point? Thank you
In RAW the only thing which is ‘recorded’ is if you’re in high or low iso. So you can change ISO in post, but you can’t change low to high ISO or vice versa.
Oh man thank you! I’ve been struggling with understanding native ISO and have been having noise issues with my pocket cinema and they totally explains why! Curious though if you’ve seen more grain when shooting in the Pro Res format verse the Raw?
If it gives you the look you want no. But 1250-3200 can look cleaner in certain situations. As always I encourage everyone to take the information in this video about the ISO dynamic range loads and test it out themselves. We are all doing different things so it's always great to test it out for yourself!
Okay quick question! So say if I shoot outside in direct sunlight at 1000 iso at (7.3 highlights) i will need to turn on my internal ND's to maybe 2 stops , but will that effect my highlights in post?
As long as you're making sure it's all exposed correctly in the false colors you should be good! I typically will stay on 400 but if you wanted to squeeze in a little bit more highlight details 1000 would be fine. Just know it will be noisier than 400 and you'll have to clean it up some.
Hmmm... A lot of debate over this one. I know the bitrate is higher for BRAW but it's also taking in a lot more information. If you film with BRAW though you get the ability to change ISO, white balance, etc. in post!
Hey, So.... I get it but I dont get it xD let me explain. I clearly understand the there is dual ISO system ( 400 ISO and 3200 ISO) it bumps from one to the other by itself at 1200 ISO. So at those Native ISO that is the area where you will get the most dynamic range in your Highlights and shadows. NOW... what I don't get is why you would go for that 3200 Native ISO if that means your image will have more noise...? I also get that depending on the situation you want to maximise the dynamique range of a specifique region lets say bright sunny day with almost non shadows your better off with 1000 ISO for capturing those details in the highlights. But yeahh just don't get when you would want to go to 3200 if that means noise in those shadows ? If your record in B-RAW at 3200 ISO you max your dynamic range, in post production if you drop it to 1200 ISO will you keep the dynamic range captured and lose the grain in the image ?
if your shooting indoors, and have no lights in the room. when using mirroless or dlsr usually people increase iso to get more light. but for 6k pro i have to drop iso for more dynamic range below middle grey? (sorry for my bad english )
Great question! My suggestion would be at that point to bump up to the secondary ISO. That's what blackmagic designed it to do, to be used when their are no lighting sources. I know a lot of people swear by using 1250 here, I prefer 3200 but that's honestly a choice you should test out! So it works similarly, but that secondary ISO makes it a little strange. Hope that makes sense! (And your english is perfectly fine!)
Helpful info and some good eye openers but (a constructive point) it would be worth you doing more takes when filming as you tripping over your words so much is a little distracting. Useful video nonetheless so thanks!
Appreciate it! Would you say it was the jump cuts in-between takes or the actual talking? Made this one quickly so it was a little rushed unfortunately. Appreciate the constructive point
@@FrameVoyager I mean while you were talking, just fumbling over your words and um'ing an ah'ing at times. Jump cuts can be okay I think but the fewer the better. I just think it's worth doing a bunch of takes until you get a nice clean one. It's great info and you've taken the time to create a nice set and lighting etc so worth polishing the performance a bit. Again, not meaning to pick but I think it'll just polish the whole thing up and serve you better.
1250 is not native. The secondary native would be 3200. I've heard a lot of people wanting to use the 1250 over 3200 but to me staying at the native iso at 3200 doesn't add that much more noise in my opinion. Granted, the secondary ISO system is really reserved for when you just can expose for 400 ISO and need that boost. I would not use it except for that situation, but some people tend to like it better. Hope that makes sense!
@@FrameVoyager In my experience so far, there's definitely a decent amount of noise at 3200 when exposing skintones at 50-60 IRE. Moderate denoising in Resolve or with NeatVideo gets rid of it, but it's definitely a bit more than I expected for dual native ISO 🤷
Staring 7.22 I lost you.. Why using ISO if you implemente it like a Gain ( db ). 100 Iso is in film made for highlight, and high Iso as 1250 for low-light...and here you say to do the opposite. When there is much light, as in outdoors, shooting with a very sensitive film could burn all highlights, .. But here you say it s the last thing to do... 🤔 And that to shoot at 3200 is way better in terms of noise reduction in lower light situations... I experience the opposite! 🤔 On my bmpcc 6kpro at 3200 Iso I have much more noise than 100 Iso in low light, as a DB gain would do. But usually you see grain only in the middles area, where in dark and white areas there is nothing to see anyway. And bmpcc seems to have a tendancy to produce red noise.
Yeahhh, it's a little different when it comes to digital ISO vs film. that 100 iso on the provided BMD dynamic range chart provides for very little range in the highlights above middle grey. It's fine as a "lasat resort" but you'll have much better footage outcome filming at 400 iso, more balanced DR and it's the native, just expose for it and use ND filters for the best result. Typically, I would only recommend staying at the native 400 and then hitting native 3200 when absolutely necessary. So 1250 will usually get you less noise in low light situations, but 3200 because it's native will give you the best quality of footage. It might have more grain in it, but it you use it and properly expose it, it works great. Then throw it into resolve and do some noise reduction and it looks great! I've only seen the BMPCC produce red noise above 3200 or if you're not exposing it properly, or if you left your focus peaking on haha. It's a pretty complex topic that a lot of people have a lot of different opinions on haha
@@FrameVoyager thank's for responding, i got some pretty interesting answers from BM meanwhile..told me to use 3200 in highlights for the use of greater dynamic range and 100 ISO in dark scene !!! ( we don't see noise in white anyways..ahah ) and to avoid red noise to use +10 tint ( and tungsten lighting if possible... Why ? because you need to expose only according dynamic range and the ISO CHART / middle grey point shifting with the iso. So forget about the hybrid logic, or regular video camera, 100 iso on low light when you want dynamic range in shadows , 3200 in bright scene when no shadows. But since the second native iso starts at 1250 always use the lowest iso possible as a last ressource as it still implements noise going up ( like broadcast db/gain works - the more iso still makes more Noise ( for ex. FX9 does not -invisible almost with its low and high iso modes ) Also the camera is not that great in low light (small sensor nor mega pixels ) meaning with no additional lighting to recover dark areas you are a bit screwed. It is always better to shoot with the histogram far as possible on the right end just avoiding clipping highlights or you will always get noise in shadows. Why ? Except in Prores where there is an algorithm when recording , that there is no sharpness neither noise reduction in BRAW, and that it is only meant to be done in post : they created this camera to be used with Da Vinci of course...the software is not in camera but in DA VINCI somehow ( the opposite of Sony's camera who make footage ready to post and that you can tweak easily even in XAVC with almost no rendering on a 2011 mac like i have ) since they don't recommend at all to bake in the lut meant only for viewing ( and i assure you it creates undesirable results...) Video Mode is the only way to use the camera as a "regular" video camera, but it looks awful and too contrasty to my taste, i prefer extended video mode. That's why FALSE color is absolutely necessary with this camera : the zebra at 75% is useless, ( in video you expose faces with a bit of 70% ZEBRA and you are sure it's ok) , because anyway everything that is on the red and purple zone is clipped, therefore if you touch it noise will appears in shadows, and you ll need de-noising in Post. BM recommend to shoot the brightest possible for low light scenes ( as we do in cinema ) and to lower you exposition in Post. This is not a video camera, it's a 2500$ camera requiring cinema skills and gears both on stage and in post production.
@@tekoneco yeah i only trust false color when using these cameras. And it is a cinema camera first and you do have to treat it like one. It's low light capabilities actually aren't awful, you should check out "over the moon" by elliander pictures. Shows off what you can do with it in low light if you know proper filming techniques
Yep! That's why I always preach starting at your native's and then experimenting in those specific lighting situation with other ISO levels to see what it does to your footage. It's all about experimenting from a base line and ignoring what everyone else tells you haha
@@rMr.big13 Thanks! All the footage is from a Alaskan adventure video that I'm releasing next Monday with footage from the 6K pro, P4k and the URSA G2!
Iso is basically a Lut. Its not good to film at "Native ISO", you are just getting free noise. Film at the lowest ISO that's able to accommodate your scene DR. When you film @ISO800 for example you are starving the sensor of light (because when you select ISO800 the image in the monitor will get brighter and so you will stop down effectively letting less light in, hence why you have more noise.
There are NO two dual native isos, but two dual native iso areas. This only when shooting raw. Proress is like all baked in klusterfu@# with kolours wiped of
![The BMPCC6K Pro/4k feature even the pros got wrong at first [Gerald Undone/Josh Yeo]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9yMhRjpqM08/mqdefault.jpg)
Just when I think I knew everything about my BMPCC, I completely forgot they mentioned this feature when buying it. Now I have another way to get maximum quality out of it, thanks so much
being a noob with the 6k pro, or with film cameras in general, I find your videos most useful. I come from DSLR and mirrorless cameras, and I am so happy about your channel. It helps me a lot. Thank you so much MVP.
Coming from the world of photography, i got to adust for videography and this tip helped me a lot. Then i go back to photo and it changed my understanding of how digital ISO works in both world.
It is worth thinking about going UP in iso (to like 800) in bright sunlight, because all the shadowed areas receive plenty of ambient light, and the extra stop (vs. 400) above middle grey helps toning down the harsh highlights in post. Note that if you do that, 6 stops of ND filters will not be enough to keep you at f/2.0 AND 180° shutter angle at 24fps. You will need an extra 2 stops for that, so a mattebox and a ND 0.6 filter is still recommended (besides that it gives you somewhere to stick your blackmist/streak filters).
Very true! that's a good point
Adjustable nd1000 cheapo filter? Lol
About iso 800
I shoot 50 persent of a film with iso 800 in bmpcc 6k. Some people's told me that, Iso 800 will give best result, also in dinamic range.
Thanks! wanted to ask this as a question. So in addition, since the nd of the bmpcc6kpro doesnt have a well IR cut, ik planning om getting Nisi filterset. Then use that irnd ikstead of the bm one. You agree with that take or go half on both.
I’d recommend investing in the Tilta mirage matte box with the variable ND filter (motorized and manual) which, along with the built in ND filters, will give you complete control.
I'm loving this series about pocket 6k pro! Keep it coming John!
Appreciate it! About to do a vs. Series between all of the cameras
@@FrameVoyager can't freaking wait!!
Great timing for the video. I was looking into this subject. I felt like all I know about ISO was wrong. I also have BMPCC 6k Pro and I'm a bit confused about some of the shots I have. I think, the next stop on this topic would be examples of situations and matching iso options for those situations. Like which iso would be good on twilight, or sunsets, or backlit daylight or putting the sun on our back. Exactly what levels of exposure considered to have good amount of details. That would be the key video for this topic.
Appreciate it! I plan to do a video on that here soon, I talked some about it in the last one I did for the P4K but need to do a follow up with examples. Good idea!
Perfect idea! Would also be cool to go through the light intensity / position and ISO you used to make this video! just picked up a 6k pro and i’m envisioning my lighting/space to be similar to how it is here (to obtain a moody vibe) while mixing some music 🎶 but it’s not clear to me if for a setup like this i should go with 400 or 3200 ISO
Small correction:
this camera along with the 4k only has two analog iso, not two different systems. Within those two isos, each stop is like increasing and decreasing exposure in post meaning it's fully digital and away from the analog domain of the sensor. That's why you can change the iso in post but not go from iso 1600 to iso 100. They're two different analog isos which aren't possible to change in post.
Old canons had multiple analog isos but that severely limited the dynamic range above a certain iso.
Very useful !! Thx mate ! Far from all these reviews boring and not interesting at all ! Thx again for your work !
No problem at all! And yeahhh, most people don't have any fun b-roll 😩 it's honestly just a little extra work to make these a bit more fun
@@FrameVoyager how many stops of ND filter do you need if you record with ISO 1000 at daylight.
Great explanation! Just upgraded from my Canon 5D mark II - Loving my black magic, and didn't understand the concept of dual ISO. Now I do! Thanks man. Great quality content. Keep it up!
Glad it was helpful! It tends to be a hard topic to grasp, especially if you ask in a forum where there are like 50 different answers. To me this is the easiest and best way to understand it. Hope to see you around the channel and good luck with your awesome new camera!
The 6k with gen 5 color sci has THE BEST image ever for anything withing 10k of the price. It looks so crazy good.
It's really good! I do like my URSA G2 though haha
@@FrameVoyager true but now you're talking apples and oranges. The g2 looks a bit more harsh vs filmic. IMO. The last time I used one they color sci wasn't updated either so it was a bit more difficult to match.
Great video! 😎 So good to see such a detailed approach to this camera’s ISO.
Appreciate it!
learned a lot from you channel while expecting my 6k pro tomorrow. I’m switching from Sony a6400 and I’m quite excited cause I love colorgrading and kinda scared as I’m complete newbie with manual focus :D Thanks for sharing your knowledge. People often forget that we are just humans and every single one of us has it’s own opinion and that we have always take info, but not for granted. So less trolls, more goals 🙏🏼
Glad my content could help you out! Excited to see what you make!
Hi! I was in a similar boat - I am so so happy I changed from Sony. Using manual focus makes you a better film maker! Plus imperfections are perfect :D
Man, I should have watched this when I first got my 6K pro a couple months ago. I shot a music video in very low light locations and was wondering why everything was grainy as hell 🤦🏻♂️ but this really helped, and your footage is incredible!
It just takes a little bit to get used to it! This camera works slightly different than others. But if you stay on your native ISO's you'll generally be fine!
Thanks it's a good reference point for me seeing as I've never done this kind of thing before.
Thanks again..
Happy to help! Let me know if you have any questions!
Great video, but the winner here is your golden mane ... bro ... that hair ... superbe. and the backlight giving you that halo ... I mean ... sold.
Super insightful thanks!
No problem!
About iso 800
I shoot 50 persent of a film with iso 800 in bmpcc 6k. Some people's told me that, Iso 800 will give best result, also in dinamic range.
Great video once again. I've been watching your content more and more. Keep it up! 😀
Appreciate it! Look forward to seeing you around the channel!
Great explanation! I learned something new today. 😎
Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
i love this channel so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Appreciate it!
Informative and on point. Great video!
Appreciate it!
you just enlightened me
Glad to help!
Great vid, bro.
Appreciate it!
Very helpful, thank you for this !
Glad it was helpful!
haha loved the vfx for the DR chart! XD
Bro where is that shot from 2:34? Unbelievable!! Great quality content. Keep it up.
Appreciate it! That shot is at the Bonneville Salt Flats that are right outside of Salt Lake City, UT. It's usually just dry salt for as far as you can see but when we went this time it was during the winter and it was a thin layer of water, maybe like 6-9inches deep for miles out. Made it look like you were walking on water and the reflections were insane
@@FrameVoyager Wow thank you for explaining that. It really is incredible. Never seen something like that before 👏
@@zallesproductions me neither! An incredible surprise actually. We went out there expecting no water and it turned out to be even better than what we expected!
Such good tips to start!
Great stuff! Thank you.
its fun being first to comment hihi as you were FV.
ps. love the content, as always
haha it is! Glad the content was helpful!
Gracias Colega!!
Respects man!
Hey man, thank you so mutch for these “Perles”(info)! When i watched this video, i felt like i’v known nothing! 😅
But i was thinking would it be posible 4 u to make a video with semples, te get in some lowlight and highlight situation, and to show us as how you operate the diferent ISO levels from your camera screen acording to the light of each situation?
I think with that video we would realy, fully understand!
Respect and all the best! 👋🏼
Appreciate it! And for sure! Actually planning on circling back on these videos again at some point soon
@@FrameVoyager Awsome, looking forward to it! 😉✌️
thaanks
Q : Awesome video! Of course it would depend on the exposure level but generally speaking which do you personally use more in dark situations 1250 or 3200iso?
A : Typically I would use 3200 ISO because I have more room to work with and I like the expose for that better than a lower ISO like 1250. I'll have to do that sometime!
***Your answer to the 3200 vs 1200 comparison
For cinematography, I'm wondering if ISO 3200 is better than ISO1250 for nighttime indoor shots with lighting. ISO3200 is always handy for shooting, but when image quality is a priority, which is better for noise, 3200 or 1250? I'm using daVinci Resolve and am curious about the denoising results between 3200 and 1250. I've always been curious about the benefits.
Finally, thank you so much for your good video!
1250 ISO will give you the most stops below middle gray. This means that in that second iso range, 1250 would favor less noise in darker scenes at the expense of your highlights.
The highlight recovery resets all that back and gets you the headroom back at lower ISOs. Gerald covered this.
Right, but I wouldn't rely on this. In my experience it's kind of hit or miss with that setting. Great when it works! Just would rather not chance it
Спасибо!
Hi, thank you for this video. In my opinion it's a great chance the different distribution of the stops (depending on the ISO). I can shoot to 1000 ISO in a sunny day with many clouds and achieve the clouds. But if i have also a subject in backlight, for example, i can't shoot to 1000 ISO because there is too much noise in the shadows. This fact reduces the power of these camera. I have a Ferrari, but i can't push the accelerator. However, i notice that this problem affects more the 6K and 6K Pro than the 4K. I don't know why. In my opinion there is a problem in GEN 5. It's like they've pushed too hard the flateness of the image, like Sony with the S-Log 3 (more flat -> more noise). But is a fantasy of my buggy brain. I noticed however that Pocket 6K Pro is more noisy, and i see more noise to 800 ISO as compared to Pocket 4K. I can solve a bit this problem opening the exposure, because Pocket 6K Pro holds better the highlights, in my opinion. But in this case i can't apply the Extended Video LUT, because it results too much overexposed (without clipping, of course). So, i have to make a specific LUT for the scenes where i have to achieve more stops over the middle gray. I think this could be a good compromise. This camera is not a 'run and gun' camera, i know... And the price also tells me about the limits. What a sad ending... :(
I have the same issue or i noticed the same thing but i'm not quite sure if it is the GEN 5, the Sensor itself or the processor which causes this "Problem". Ofc smaller sensors tend to be more noisier than Full Frame Sensors because of its physical structure but even on a APS-C type camera like the Fujifilm X-T4 i didnt have that much of a problem with the noise in F-Log on an Atomos like i would on the BMPCC 6K Pro. (Yes, i know RAW is noisier than ProRes).
unfortunately like u mentioned the price tells the limit of the camera.... but still i love the camera i never had such a beautiful image coming out of a camera so i stick with it for little bit before i upgrade to somethin else...
@@Edi-CH I agree with you!
such a nice video.. sub right away
Appreciate it!
Please make a complete manual vídeo for the 6k pro like you did with the 4k, I am suscribing
Oh, don't you worry. It's already in production 😉
@@FrameVoyager thanks a lot man, You are great
Very useful
I don't get it. In THEORY we should use ISOs that have more dynamic in the shadows to film in low lights, right? So why we don't?
Kind of a preference thing tbh. Like there are times I will film at 1250 ISO in really dark situations, but a lot of time I'll leave it at 3200 ISO. But it's really about assessing the situation and then using your prior experience with the camera to adjust to the correct exposure. I recommend native ISO's because you really can't go too wrong exposing for them, but as you get used to exposing with the camera, start experimenting with the ISO levels for sure!
Awesome video! Of course it would depend on the exposure level but generally speaking which do you personally use more in dark situations 1250 or 3200iso? If you could give an example with false color it would be awesome
Typically I would use 3200 ISO because I have more room to work with and I like the expose for that better than a lower ISO like 1250. I'll have to do that sometime!
Thanks for the great vid! And do you set exposer with a LUT on or off? I know with BRAW it doesnt affect the metadata captured, but for me its difficult to determine the correct levels if the LUT is off, like which ND to use, etc
It depends, but typically yes. I'll like to see what it looks like with the LUT on when I expose but I'll always rely on the false color more so than the monitor. A lot of time I feel like shots come out darker than they look in camera
@@FrameVoyager Gotcha. Cause it looks the same with or without LUT with false color on. Thanks!
So I’m getting on board with this way of thinking about ISO, but this leads me to wonder about what’s going on with braw then since you can alter your ISO in post? When you change it in Davinci does it also effect the stops above and below middle grey? Or does that mean that in the end it doesn’t really matter in raw since you can always change it in post? Or is it really just for reference in camera so you can know how much light to feed the sensor? Thanks and appreciate your videos!
the second hi gain circuit kicks in at 1250 iso, not at 3200, people should be informed of this
Right, that's why there are the 2 separate charts.
And 1250 is practically noiseless in low light, 3200 gets nasty quick.
Great instruction.
So when is using 100 iso useful?
Appreciate it! Um... I would personally never use 100 ISO if I'm being honest. I just think the footage starts looking really weird no matter what you film at that level.
I have one strange question: Let's say I am filming RAW in a dark situation, then I use the iso 800 (which will bring a lot of noise to shadows). Is this noise likely to 'disappear' from my footage if I switch the ISO back to 100 in Resolve? Did you get my point? Thank you
In RAW the only thing which is ‘recorded’ is if you’re in high or low iso. So you can change ISO in post, but you can’t change low to high ISO or vice versa.
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Oh man thank you! I’ve been struggling with understanding native ISO and have been having noise issues with my pocket cinema and they totally explains why! Curious though if you’ve seen more grain when shooting in the Pro Res format verse the Raw?
So for a night scene of a car driving through the city you'd still shoot at 3200 ISO if 400-1000 gives me the look I want?
If it gives you the look you want no. But 1250-3200 can look cleaner in certain situations. As always I encourage everyone to take the information in this video about the ISO dynamic range loads and test it out themselves. We are all doing different things so it's always great to test it out for yourself!
subbed
Appreciate it!
Gosh I lit this video so bad 😩
Okay quick question! So say if I shoot outside in direct sunlight at 1000 iso at (7.3 highlights) i will need to turn on my internal ND's to maybe 2 stops , but will that effect my highlights in post?
As long as you're making sure it's all exposed correctly in the false colors you should be good! I typically will stay on 400 but if you wanted to squeeze in a little bit more highlight details 1000 would be fine. Just know it will be noisier than 400 and you'll have to clean it up some.
Is there any difference between braw and prores in terms of quality?
Hmmm... A lot of debate over this one. I know the bitrate is higher for BRAW but it's also taking in a lot more information. If you film with BRAW though you get the ability to change ISO, white balance, etc. in post!
Hey, So.... I get it but I dont get it xD let me explain. I clearly understand the there is dual ISO system ( 400 ISO and 3200 ISO) it bumps from one to the other by itself at 1200 ISO. So at those Native ISO that is the area where you will get the most dynamic range in your Highlights and shadows. NOW... what I don't get is why you would go for that 3200 Native ISO if that means your image will have more noise...? I also get that depending on the situation you want to maximise the dynamique range of a specifique region lets say bright sunny day with almost non shadows your better off with 1000 ISO for capturing those details in the highlights. But yeahh just don't get when you would want to go to 3200 if that means noise in those shadows ? If your record in B-RAW at 3200 ISO you max your dynamic range, in post production if you drop it to 1200 ISO will you keep the dynamic range captured and lose the grain in the image ?
if your shooting indoors, and have no lights in the room. when using mirroless or dlsr usually people increase iso to get more light. but for 6k pro i have to drop iso for more dynamic range below middle grey? (sorry for my bad english )
Great question! My suggestion would be at that point to bump up to the secondary ISO. That's what blackmagic designed it to do, to be used when their are no lighting sources. I know a lot of people swear by using 1250 here, I prefer 3200 but that's honestly a choice you should test out! So it works similarly, but that secondary ISO makes it a little strange. Hope that makes sense! (And your english is perfectly fine!)
Great video. If I’m shooting in Pro Res HQ would you still chose 400ISO? I’m on a 6k (not 6k pro)
How many stops of ND filters do you need if you record with ISO 1000 at daylight?
Stupid question but im new to this cam and is dual native iso something i have activated in the cam settings first?
@Frame Voyager how many stops of ND filter do you need if you record with ISO 1000 at daylight?
So if I made a mistake and exposed at 100 iso in Braw,
Can I change the iso in Davinci to 400 and the dynamic range will shift?
Helpful info and some good eye openers but (a constructive point) it would be worth you doing more takes when filming as you tripping over your words so much is a little distracting. Useful video nonetheless so thanks!
Appreciate it! Would you say it was the jump cuts in-between takes or the actual talking? Made this one quickly so it was a little rushed unfortunately. Appreciate the constructive point
@@FrameVoyager I mean while you were talking, just fumbling over your words and um'ing an ah'ing at times. Jump cuts can be okay I think but the fewer the better. I just think it's worth doing a bunch of takes until you get a nice clean one. It's great info and you've taken the time to create a nice set and lighting etc so worth polishing the performance a bit. Again, not meaning to pick but I think it'll just polish the whole thing up and serve you better.
I dont agree... but is a good video ;)
Appreicate the honesty! Hard to ever fully agree on everything camera related I've found lol
What about iso 1250? Is it native too? I’ve heard people asking users to use iso400 or iso1250 🤷🏻♂️
1250 is not native. The secondary native would be 3200. I've heard a lot of people wanting to use the 1250 over 3200 but to me staying at the native iso at 3200 doesn't add that much more noise in my opinion. Granted, the secondary ISO system is really reserved for when you just can expose for 400 ISO and need that boost. I would not use it except for that situation, but some people tend to like it better. Hope that makes sense!
@@FrameVoyager In my experience so far, there's definitely a decent amount of noise at 3200 when exposing skintones at 50-60 IRE. Moderate denoising in Resolve or with NeatVideo gets rid of it, but it's definitely a bit more than I expected for dual native ISO 🤷
Staring 7.22 I lost you.. Why using ISO if you implemente it like a Gain ( db ). 100 Iso is in film made for highlight, and high Iso as 1250 for low-light...and here you say to do the opposite.
When there is much light, as in outdoors, shooting with a very sensitive film could burn all highlights, .. But here you say it s the last thing to do... 🤔 And that to shoot at 3200 is way better in terms of noise reduction in lower light situations... I experience the opposite! 🤔 On my bmpcc 6kpro at 3200 Iso I have much more noise than 100 Iso in low light, as a DB gain would do.
But usually you see grain only in the middles area, where in dark and white areas there is nothing to see anyway.
And bmpcc seems to have a tendancy to produce red noise.
Yeahhh, it's a little different when it comes to digital ISO vs film. that 100 iso on the provided BMD dynamic range chart provides for very little range in the highlights above middle grey. It's fine as a "lasat resort" but you'll have much better footage outcome filming at 400 iso, more balanced DR and it's the native, just expose for it and use ND filters for the best result.
Typically, I would only recommend staying at the native 400 and then hitting native 3200 when absolutely necessary. So 1250 will usually get you less noise in low light situations, but 3200 because it's native will give you the best quality of footage. It might have more grain in it, but it you use it and properly expose it, it works great. Then throw it into resolve and do some noise reduction and it looks great! I've only seen the BMPCC produce red noise above 3200 or if you're not exposing it properly, or if you left your focus peaking on haha.
It's a pretty complex topic that a lot of people have a lot of different opinions on haha
@@FrameVoyager thank's for responding, i got some pretty interesting answers from BM meanwhile..told me to use 3200 in highlights for the use of greater dynamic range and 100 ISO in dark scene !!! ( we don't see noise in white anyways..ahah ) and to avoid red noise to use +10 tint ( and tungsten lighting if possible...
Why ? because you need to expose only according dynamic range and the ISO CHART / middle grey point shifting with the iso.
So forget about the hybrid logic, or regular video camera, 100 iso on low light when you want dynamic range in shadows , 3200 in bright scene when no shadows.
But since the second native iso starts at 1250 always use the lowest iso possible as a last ressource as it still implements noise going up ( like broadcast db/gain works - the more iso still makes more Noise ( for ex. FX9 does not -invisible almost with its low and high iso modes )
Also the camera is not that great in low light (small sensor nor mega pixels ) meaning with no additional lighting to recover dark areas you are a bit screwed.
It is always better to shoot with the histogram far as possible on the right end just avoiding clipping highlights or you will always get noise in shadows.
Why ? Except in Prores where there is an algorithm when recording , that there is no sharpness neither noise reduction in BRAW, and that it is only meant to be done in post : they created this camera to be used with Da Vinci of course...the software is not in camera but in DA VINCI somehow ( the opposite of Sony's camera who make footage ready to post and that you can tweak easily even in XAVC with almost no rendering on a 2011 mac like i have ) since they don't recommend at all to bake in the lut meant only for viewing ( and i assure you it creates undesirable results...)
Video Mode is the only way to use the camera as a "regular" video camera, but it looks awful and too contrasty to my taste, i prefer extended video mode.
That's why FALSE color is absolutely necessary with this camera : the zebra at 75% is useless, ( in video you expose faces with a bit of 70% ZEBRA and you are sure it's ok) , because anyway everything that is on the red and purple zone is clipped, therefore if you touch it noise will appears in shadows, and you ll need de-noising in Post.
BM recommend to shoot the brightest possible for low light scenes ( as we do in cinema ) and to lower you exposition in Post.
This is not a video camera, it's a 2500$ camera requiring cinema skills and gears both on stage and in post production.
@@tekoneco yeah i only trust false color when using these cameras. And it is a cinema camera first and you do have to treat it like one. It's low light capabilities actually aren't awful, you should check out "over the moon" by elliander pictures. Shows off what you can do with it in low light if you know proper filming techniques
So basically this video is a firmware update? 😊
How did you calculate the DR chart ?
Directly from BMD's manual and site and then you can tell in the lumetri scopes somewhat as well.
is this the same for the bmpcc 4k?
The native ISO's are the same, but the charts slightly differ for each.
In theory all good but ISO 1000 has a lot of noise!
Yep! That's why I always preach starting at your native's and then experimenting in those specific lighting situation with other ISO levels to see what it does to your footage. It's all about experimenting from a base line and ignoring what everyone else tells you haha
A lot of words little examples
what was this video shot on? pocket 6k pro?
Yep! Almost all of the shots were from the 6K Pro!
@@FrameVoyager Looks amazing!!
@@rMr.big13 Thanks! All the footage is from a Alaskan adventure video that I'm releasing next Monday with footage from the 6K pro, P4k and the URSA G2!
@@FrameVoyager awesome! Great content, to the point...I subscribe
Iso is basically a Lut. Its not good to film at "Native ISO", you are just getting free noise. Film at the lowest ISO that's able to accommodate your scene DR. When you film @ISO800 for example you are starving the sensor of light (because when you select ISO800 the image in the monitor will get brighter and so you will stop down effectively letting less light in, hence why you have more noise.
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Its effect, not it's
Whoops 😬 that's what I get for writing titles at the last second 😂
@@FrameVoyager no prob, thanks for the content
There are NO two dual native isos, but two dual native iso areas. This only when shooting raw.
Proress is like all baked in klusterfu@#
with kolours wiped of