AVS paid off to botch the detail shots! Lol j/k, love you AVS, thanks for the tour! I absolutely love how overengineered their speakers are, I had no idea that they were so solid. I am honestly not sure how they are able to sell them at their current price point. That guy knew his stuff, you can tell he has an engineer brain by how passionate he looks about every detail without smiling one time. xo
Brilliant, and fascinating! Many thanks for recording as you went on tour. I don't have the budget for UK manufactured speakers (800 series) but note the trickle down effect to 700... Particularly interesting to hear some of the details that make the sound so great.
That's the reason the are so good ...because they are not the new design ...Most 60s 70s 80s stuff was brilliant.....man made better quality. the new series just has to much emphasis on computer based technology
Quality engineering and manufacturing is never cheap folks. I compared the 803D 3's with others in their price range and they won out every time with their uncolored, neutral sound. They sound great with all genres!
I mean, factually, objectively, they are quite heavily coloured/not neutral - the entire 800 series have a significant peak in frequency response around the 10k area, which is what causes them to sound sibilant in so many systems. But I do agree they are some of the best performing speakers on the market, outside of that (likely intentional) issue.
@@LordVictorHalgaard have you heard all of them? I have and the 800 d3 and the 802 d3 do not exhibit that behavior but the rest of the line does without question and yes the amps are VERY important - McIntosh is the most synergistic
when I first got mine I put a couple pairs of sweat socks over the tweeter. Then a passive equalizer , which worked great to tame the “ headphone sound “ .
Wow, amazing video and shows how much work goes into making these fantastic speakers and that NOT ALL speakers are made the same! Thanks for the video!
I'm a retired woodworker, home builder, cabinetmaker, Mold and Model maker. I have to say, this manufacturing process and attention to detail is inspired and inspiring. As a retired Social Worker/Case Manager i will never afford the 800 Series Diamond speaker pair. But i am nearly in the market for a new pair of front speakers. Currently, my 5.1 system is connected to 4, DM303's and an HTM62 center. I've updated my interconnects and speaker cabling with Furutech in nearly every instance and i have found the 303's just sound better and better. The sound is so clear, detailed and with an amazing sound stage. In fact, i cannot identify the speaker placement they seemingly disappear into the sound-stage. Anyone who listens to this humble system looses control of their jaw as their jaw drops to the floor. With todays lossless audio formats, well recorded music gives me the cymbal crashes and the sharp crack of the snare drum and the chirping chord change from the strings of the acoustic guitar and so much more... Recently, I've been looking to up my system to a 7.1 array (probably more than i need). However, lately i've been hearing and reading great reports regarding the Continuum driver in the new 600 and 700 series speakers. I've been thinking i might try the B&W 607's..., does anybody have thoughts or experience with listening to any of the new continuum driver configurations. Whatever i land on will probably remain in my system for eternity (obviously). With the asking price on B&W speakers in general i'd be bummed if in a few years i feel i'm missing something in sound reproduction. I know any system can be improved upon. With upgrades, tweaks and positioning at times it's hard not to tweak the system for every new song. Any thoughts will be helpful. (sorry about the length of my comment) Well done B&W and thanks.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN Thanks for your comments. i totally agree with your thought/experience with quality front speaker pairs. Two speaker systems can act as a more than adequate sound reproduction tool. i've lived with a few decent even nice speaker pairs in the past. The Mission 765's and Celestion SL12si's to name a few. i felt these were exceptional speakers. i was happy even satisfied with the above speaker pairs especially, but of course not every recording is created equally and one frustration seemingly leads to another and all too frequently i would find myself at the controls attempting to dial in the magic..., sometimes it worked. To make a much longer story, very brief - a friend (Roger) i've known for a very long time has an unavoidable impulse to own every vintage and popular speaker to ever cross his path and he has room after room of speakers in storage as evidence. Unfortunately for me, he believes every speaker he owns is worth its weight in gold..., maybe true but he offers no financing (lol). In any case, Roger had a sub/sat speaker system set up on one day i happened to drop by. That day i left with a slightly muddy sounding PhaseTech passive subwoofer. A 14" cube with a 10" down-firing Morel driver, i think. The idea of a subwoofer playing the longer sound waves below 80hz freeing the 5-7" drivers to focus their energies on the upper range musical details sounded logical. Since the 80hz sound wave, even half a sound wave below 80hz fills any conventional room with sound, it's then, an easy task to believe the LF sound is coming from any point within the sound stage. To be brief, I'll end with, in my more productive years, my son lived with me and as a single dad, there are priorities. So, the newest car i've owned was a 3yr old Subaru and i am not complaining, i loved that car. As long as i've owned a Subaru i've never been snowbound and i have seen some incredible scenery in my home state of Maine. If car dealers ever offer a 0% financing for 6 or 8 years i may yet qualify to purchase a new car. As for a 6-9 thousand dollar pair of speakers - i've been looking, ever since i noticed Music stores have been offering 0% financing for 48 months on instruments. That may up my investment in a better quality speaker pair like the B&W 707's. But i'm not holding my breath. Besides, i have read several great reviews, very flowery and flattering reviews about the B&W 607's and add that to the idea Roger has always preferred a 5.25 driver he says it makes for a better sounding Sub/Sat speaker array. I don't disagree, for vocals he is absolutely correct (i think) but i find with some 6-7" drivers there are added layers of detail and with new technologies and reviews raving about the B&W 607's... Bottom line it'll take the federal government awarding the American People the full $2000 CoVid-19 relief amount - if that does happen i may be able to make an offer on an even better quality, epic, used pair of B&W speakers. Again, i am not holding my breath. Hope your able to stay safe thru these Holydays with family. Best Wishes for your New Year. my apologies for the longer reply
i knew the 800 series was good after B&W sent me a DVD with all the info like 10 years back.... but my god i didnt realise the engineering that went into them... these things are sooo sweet!.. but seriously overkill for anyone who isnt an audiofool!
Mygoodness. The depth of engineering is Phenomenonal! Unfortunately, I'd never be able to afford these ever and will have to go with my Japanese/US combo.......
They're worth the money just for that level of attention to detail and quality of components! I've never listened to anything in this price range, but I'm guessing once purchased, they'll produce quality sound for a couple of generations at least 😂
No they're not and I've listened to a few. Get a Genelec 8531 and be happy. It's more reasonable priced, has matching amplifiers built in and is filled to the brim with quality engineering and manufacturing. If you need more low-end, get multiple subs and set them up properly with the guides you can find online.
@@iSkyline1 yeah, figured as much! I'm using diy line arrays with quad 12" subs. Now the room has the most scope for improvement. Figuring out the cheapest way to make effective acoustic panels is almost as much fun as building speakers 😉
I've heard that the diamond tweeters has a high weight disadvantage and that's why more high end speaker manufacturers don't use it in their monitors. And that Beryllium is a bit harsh. Would the Kii Three's gain anything by using super premium drivers? They seem to be the ultimate rated monitors/most accurate yet they use $70 third party tweeters in their $30k speakers.
So basically he's saying my brand new 600 plebeian series speakers have crappy magnets, sheet metal tweeters and a cabinet built like an Ikea flat pack.
I dream off the 800 series pretty much every night maybe when I get older and am earning more I might be able to afford some I’m using the CMS2 range at the moment not bad
So, the 800 series tweeter's voice coil is surrounded by a ferro-fluid material to dissipate heat into the aluminium structure/heat-sink; that's going to introduce damping. It would be interesting to see the FEA models of the tweeters (I assume they do FEA on the tweeters as well as on the cone designs) since a traditional second order ODE of the form x'' + (c/m)x' + (k/m)x = some function (m=mass, c=damping coefficient and k stiffness) would be too simple. There's an idea for a future CZcams vid: the underlying modelling work carried out for the tweeter in the 800 series.
The ferrofluid will evaporate - leaving behind nano-magnet-dust (that's when they start sounding funny and burn out). KEF tried ferrrofluid designs lang ago. Owners will need to get a refill from time to time
12:04 They use a diamond dome to be able to present the finest details in music and then 16:21 they use ferro fluid to wipe out some of the details again... Okay, to be fair, the material of the voice coil former also plays an important role in that.If it's made from aluminium it's also decreasing detail.
@@DanielFSmith : I'm sorry but your example doesn't fit here. In a car you want a smooth ride. The electrical equivalent would be DC. In a speaker movement is the main purpose. To use your analogy: I want to experience not only every bump in the road and each small stone I go over, I want to feel every tiny bug I accidentally crush under my tyres. I want the finest changes of the signal to be presented to me. That's why I dont want a _controlled_ movement.
@@mariusloubeeka5810 When you ask your mechanic for more "road feel", would they install performance shocks or weaker ones? Sure, the damper removes sound energy. That's what you need! Look at/measure the resonance curves for undamped speakers as you bounce down the road. (Would be a good topic for your podcast, in fact ;-)
@@DanielFSmith : As I said, the car example doesn't really fit. My speakers (link to one of my videos about them below) do have quite strong cone break-up resonances because they have stiff diaphragms (beryllium dome & fibre-reinforced paper). That is also the reason why all resonances are shifted to higher frequencies (woofer: >5 kHz, tweeter: ~30 kHz) where they are either filtered out by the crossover (@ 2 kHz, 3rd order) or in a non-relevant range (>22 kHz). I dare to say that they can compete from let's say 300 Hz to at least 40 kHz with any B&W diamond speaker. With a good soobwofer even below 300 Hz. Thanks for mentioning my podcasts! I think I already said something about that topic in one of them. My _Illuminata 15_ speakers: czcams.com/video/gMyE3SUvSeM/video.html
@@mariusloubeeka5810 I'm sure you appreciate that a non-relevant range is only non-relevant if everything in your system (cone, enclosure, room) is perfectly linear! If you get enough energy accumulating at 22kHz anything can start to resonate. You're only really safe when the air becomes your attenuator (at the relevant distance to the object).
Ok so They press it to make the shape. I was always thinking they carve baffles from wood. This way can whatever shape they desire, using designed pressing tool
Před 5 lety+3
Is it advanced space ship we need or a simple pair of loudspeakers?
but why copper coil on the tweeter, Why not aluminum, which has a much better weight to conductivity ratio??? it does not make sense. Is it because the copper coil will be small enough for the power rating?
I could be wrong but I doubt most of the employees I saw on this video (apart from Andy Kerr) would have the finances or motivation to assemble a system which included an 800 series speaker. You never know though..
Three comments: First, I own 804D3s. 1. Disappointed the tweeter tube is only there for show (as well as holding the tweeter). The original "Nautilus" premise was to let the tapering tube dissipate the back wave so it couldn't reemerge full-strength from the front (again). The demonstration clearly shows total tube blockage directly in back of the diaphragm. 2. The presenter mentions "safety concerns" regarding the speaker tipping over (from being top-heavy). I provided platforms for my 804D3s as it was clear they could fall over with minimal assistance ($325 out of my pocket). B&W thoughtfully provided platforms for their lesser model tower speakers. 3. Funny how the factory affixed some kind of paperwork directly to a driver cone with paper tape. More concern for the finish than the part people actually buy the speaker for? P.S. Wondering if the factory ever tried the plywood pressing procedure in a vacuum chamber? Could probably get a few more percent of stiffness with the glue getting sucked into every last crevice? Love my 804s BTW.
Kenton Kirkpatrick the tweeter tube is aluminium, almost sold aluminium, is thee primarily for heat dispersion, he says that, and heat dispersion is critical! In driver components. The front baffle on my speakers have a 9mm think aluminium plate that all drivers are mounted too, for this very same reason👍🏻👍🏻.
Kenton Kirkpatrick but yes, they should have shown us at least, the paper taped to the driver, I cringed😂😂😂. Nobody would ever get close to my drivers, and I certainly do not handle them myself, that was painful to see😂😂
I forgot to mention the "ferro fluid" which is used to cool the tweeter voice coil. Anyone know the shelf-life of ferro fluid? My understanding is ferro fluid dries-up over time. Can the ferro fluid be replaced or must the tweeter be replaced? Inquiring minds want to know...
Kenton Kirkpatrick well, I’d suspect it’s a life long substance, as he mentions that the cooling properties of it, means the tweeter never gets too hot and deteriorated over time, he goes on to say that because of this this sound always stays the same, throughout the speakers life. So I’d suggest it would be a life long substance based on this...👍🏻👍🏻
@@kentonkirkpatrick5225 Life long ferro fluid. Wow! Meaning you never change the oil in your car?! If it dries up you have two options #1 New Ferrofluid or #2 New Tweeter.
For the 800 I've not money, but last month I had bought the 702 S2 My TT Rega 3 with Exact and my ampli-McIntosh are very happy. P.S Sorry for my English language, but i am Italien. Fabioo '961 12/12/2020 h. 01,17
@MAD GRUMPYMAN Yes. For the price you pay for these speaks I am shocked that this has happened. And no I didn't have kids for 10 years when these got pushed in so kids are not the culprit. They collapsed on their own from used from some strange reason. The center channel is the only one not caved in and I this that is because it is the least used.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN I lived in So Cal and the speakers where there for 10 years until I got married. For whatever reason the tweeter covers got removed from several of the speakers when I moved and were lost. I just ordered new ones. They have been missing for about 15 years and I finally got tired of not having them. I found a B&W website that sells parts and ordered the tweeter cones also. I love these speakers but my wife hates them. If I die look for them on Craig's list because they will be sold before I am cold. LOL Thank You and enjoy. Also the reason I said it wasn't kids was that I posted before and people always says it is kids who poke them in. My kids after I got married used a crayon or something on one of the speaker screens but that is the worst thing they have done to them.
the problem with his logic about tweeters is: you're limited to the frequency response of the amplifier (i recognize a class a/b is gonna be able to play higher than class d, but upper limits is probably 40k), and the upper limit of frequencies that instruments can play is like 16k, so even though a record is capable of playing 50khz, the amplifier might only be able to play 20, and the music itself will only have up to 16. 20 is basically overkill, 70 is just to show off
Its always good practise to operate a driver well away from its break up point. Music harmonics - especially a pipe organ, can go as high as 50 kHz. Ok that is besides the point. Assuming your parameters then its nice if your driver breakup is 2 or 3 octaves away from the highest sound its expected to do. So 16 kHz for your music - one octave higher is 32k, two octaves is 64k.. so this tweeter is really only offering 2 octaves of safety. When a tweeter hits break up, the peak resonance is pretty nasty. Better to keep it a long way away.
@@theprof291166 Feeding a tweeter frequencies above 20 kHz (which is already very generous) is pointless and needlessly heats up the voice coil which introduces distortions and can lead to driver-failure at high volume-levels. Unless the resonance is within or right above the tweeters intended frequency-bandwith it will be completely inaudible anyway, so this supposed 2-3 octave safety factor is complete overkill.
likewise here. I like the look and dont mind the overengineering, but i dont love sounded speakers, like B&W definitely are. Perfect speakers in my opinion are very neutral, like studio monitors or a decent pair of Nubert`s
@@chewieone1064 Actually, B&W are extremely neutral. That's their calling card. And that's why some people don't like them because they're too stark. They don't sweeten the sound like, say, a JBL, which some prefer. To each his own.
David Brent has a new audience... Having owned what must have been over five pairs of the 800 series loudspeakers I am very glad to have moved on to altogether 'proper' loudspeakers afterall. Its funny how carried away these manufacturers get, it's hardly aerospace engineering...
Zingali twenty evo 1.2 - I see zingali have just found a distributor in the US so these should be available for you to go hear for yourself to in Canada... I use the Gryphon Diablo 300 with them... I have heard there are better results to be had with diablo 120 due to the loudspeaker high sensitivity @ 6 ohm...
I didn’t get the comparaison with an exotic car better performing at 100kph than a cheap one: Il the speaker is rated +/-3db between 20hz and 20Khz, this means that it performs at its best within this range... why would we need to go much higher if that doesn’t improve the audible performances?
It DOES improve the audible performance, that's the entire point. A point of failure is never 'immediate', its gradual, so the closer you get to it, the more small issues will start appearing, which is why you want to move the point of failure as far away as possible. Put it this way: if I asked you to run 24+ km/h, you probably cant do that for very long, because its close to the average human limit, your failure point, you get winded, red in the face, sweaty - not very "composed". Most have to go to almost half that speed, to be able to keep it up for a long time: 13 km/h is a fairly normal marathon speed. So your "comfortable" or well composed speed is only half of your max speed - same with the speaker, in theory, to reach 20khz comfortably, you often need a much higher maximum limit.
B&W speakers definitely come with grills. I think it must be that they find it easier to show them when they are off. A lot of people also choose to leave them off. It just depends if you have pets and kids. Though cats just love speaker grilles !
Why companies like B&W and others today's days selling basically I can not say lowend but midrange speakers as High end speakers for lots of money like 15 or $20000
Control over cone movement what ? Control over cone movement is got to do with electro-mechanical and electrical between the stiffness of the spider/s And Sorround and with the factor of the Qes vs the Mms the coil winding type and the relation to motor design it’s self can can also can change cone movement not just the raw neo magnet and I have not talked about damping factors including mechanical and electrical yet control over cone movement my a**
I have always had respect for the 800 series. Now I know my admiration was not misguided.
AVS paid off to botch the detail shots! Lol j/k, love you AVS, thanks for the tour! I absolutely love how overengineered their speakers are, I had no idea that they were so solid. I am honestly not sure how they are able to sell them at their current price point. That guy knew his stuff, you can tell he has an engineer brain by how passionate he looks about every detail without smiling one time. xo
Brilliant, and fascinating! Many thanks for recording as you went on tour. I don't have the budget for UK manufactured speakers (800 series) but note the trickle down effect to 700... Particularly interesting to hear some of the details that make the sound so great.
Fascinating production line. These things actually deserve to be pricey.
Best speaker makers on the planet,top quality
Great tour, thank you
Looks amazing well done guys! Regards South Africa...
I have had pair of B&W speakers for 40 years now and they still sound fantastic.
True, like all (very) good speakers. Lol!
That's the reason the are so good ...because they are not the new design ...Most 60s 70s 80s stuff was brilliant.....man made better quality. the new series just has to much emphasis on computer based technology
Quality engineering and manufacturing is never cheap folks. I compared the 803D 3's with others in their price range and they won out every time with their uncolored, neutral sound. They sound great with all genres!
I mean, factually, objectively, they are quite heavily coloured/not neutral - the entire 800 series have a significant peak in frequency response around the 10k area, which is what causes them to sound sibilant in so many systems.
But I do agree they are some of the best performing speakers on the market, outside of that (likely intentional) issue.
@@LordVictorHalgaard have you heard all of them? I have and the 800 d3 and the 802 d3 do not exhibit that behavior but the rest of the line does without question and yes the amps are VERY important - McIntosh is the most synergistic
when I first got mine I put a couple pairs of sweat socks over the tweeter.
Then a passive equalizer , which worked great to tame the “ headphone sound “ .
Wow, amazing video and shows how much work goes into making these fantastic speakers and that NOT ALL speakers are made the same! Thanks for the video!
The little speakers green, blue and orange are very sexy! I want a pair! Very good video! B&W ought to be proud of their products.
@mario j I wonder why you would like two different colors for a pair. Could you explain?
Lovely, just bought the 805D3 yesterday! :-) it's lovely
@MAD GRUMPYMAN Correct 😀 I am powering them with a Hegel H390, streaming from Tidal Hifi over bubble upnp, soon with a Node2i instead.
Brilliant speakers those D3. I have the 805S and I think they are great.
Sayin lovely is f***ing lovely!!!
Excellent video
I'm a retired woodworker, home builder, cabinetmaker, Mold and Model maker. I have to say, this manufacturing process and attention to detail is inspired and inspiring. As a retired Social Worker/Case Manager i will never afford the 800 Series Diamond speaker pair. But i am nearly in the market for a new pair of front speakers.
Currently, my 5.1 system is connected to 4, DM303's and an HTM62 center. I've updated my interconnects and speaker cabling with Furutech in nearly every instance and i have found the 303's just sound better and better. The sound is so clear, detailed and with an amazing sound stage. In fact, i cannot identify the speaker placement they seemingly disappear into the sound-stage. Anyone who listens to this humble system looses control of their jaw as their jaw drops to the floor. With todays lossless audio formats, well recorded music gives me the cymbal crashes and the sharp crack of the snare drum and the chirping chord change from the strings of the acoustic guitar and so much more...
Recently, I've been looking to up my system to a 7.1 array (probably more than i need). However, lately i've been hearing and reading great reports regarding the Continuum driver in the new 600 and 700 series speakers. I've been thinking i might try the B&W 607's..., does anybody have thoughts or experience with listening to any of the new continuum driver configurations.
Whatever i land on will probably remain in my system for eternity (obviously). With the asking price on B&W speakers in general i'd be bummed if in a few years i feel i'm missing something in sound reproduction. I know any system can be improved upon. With upgrades, tweaks and positioning at times it's hard not to tweak the system for every new song.
Any thoughts will be helpful. (sorry about the length of my comment)
Well done B&W and thanks.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN Thanks for your comments. i totally agree with your thought/experience with quality front speaker pairs. Two speaker systems can act as a more than adequate sound reproduction tool. i've lived with a few decent even nice speaker pairs in the past. The Mission 765's and Celestion SL12si's to name a few. i felt these were exceptional speakers.
i was happy even satisfied with the above speaker pairs especially, but of course not every recording is created equally and one frustration seemingly leads to another and all too frequently i would find myself at the controls attempting to dial in the magic..., sometimes it worked.
To make a much longer story, very brief - a friend (Roger) i've known for a very long time has an unavoidable impulse to own every vintage and popular speaker to ever cross his path and he has room after room of speakers in storage as evidence. Unfortunately for me, he believes every speaker he owns is worth its weight in gold..., maybe true but he offers no financing (lol).
In any case, Roger had a sub/sat speaker system set up on one day i happened to drop by. That day i left with a slightly muddy sounding PhaseTech passive subwoofer. A 14" cube with a 10" down-firing Morel driver, i think. The idea of a subwoofer playing the longer sound waves below 80hz freeing the 5-7" drivers to focus their energies on the upper range musical details sounded logical. Since the 80hz sound wave, even half a sound wave below 80hz fills any conventional room with sound, it's then, an easy task to believe the LF sound is coming from any point within the sound stage.
To be brief, I'll end with, in my more productive years, my son lived with me and as a single dad, there are priorities. So, the newest car i've owned was a 3yr old Subaru and i am not complaining, i loved that car. As long as i've owned a Subaru i've never been snowbound and i have seen some incredible scenery in my home state of Maine. If car dealers ever offer a 0% financing for 6 or 8 years i may yet qualify to purchase a new car. As for a 6-9 thousand dollar pair of speakers - i've been looking, ever since i noticed Music stores have been offering 0% financing for 48 months on instruments. That may up my investment in a better quality speaker pair like the B&W 707's. But i'm not holding my breath. Besides, i have read several great reviews, very flowery and flattering reviews about the B&W 607's and add that to the idea Roger has always preferred a 5.25 driver he says it makes for a better sounding Sub/Sat speaker array. I don't disagree, for vocals he is absolutely correct (i think) but i find with some 6-7" drivers there are added layers of detail and with new technologies and reviews raving about the B&W 607's...
Bottom line it'll take the federal government awarding the American People the full $2000 CoVid-19 relief amount - if that does happen i may be able to make an offer on an even better quality, epic, used pair of B&W speakers. Again, i am not holding my breath.
Hope your able to stay safe thru these Holydays with family. Best Wishes for your New Year.
my apologies for the longer reply
Have 3 pairs of the 805s as I love them so much.
Me 26 minutes ago: What?? 26 minutes?! Ill just skip the though it real quick.
Me now: What?? Its already over??
Thanks for the excellent tour :)
"Now our smallest model of loudspeaker, the 805..."
That kinda tells you all you need to know, if you're thinking of buying a pair of 683.
i knew the 800 series was good after B&W sent me a DVD with all the info like 10 years back.... but my god i didnt realise the engineering that went into them... these things are sooo sweet!..
but seriously overkill for anyone who isnt an audiofool!
Those 805s in baby blue with silver tweeter are gorgeous, wish one could buy them in this combo =)
GamuT a.k.a. Just give them a call and they'll do it ;3
Hopefully this will help improve the failing tweeters in most dm speakers
Mygoodness. The depth of engineering is Phenomenonal! Unfortunately, I'd never be able to afford these ever and will have to go with my Japanese/US combo.......
Garret could blow this up in 1 minute, great video very interesting 👍
They're worth the money just for that level of attention to detail and quality of components!
I've never listened to anything in this price range, but I'm guessing once purchased, they'll produce quality sound for a couple of generations at least 😂
No they're not and I've listened to a few. Get a Genelec 8531 and be happy. It's more reasonable priced, has matching amplifiers built in and is filled to the brim with quality engineering and manufacturing. If you need more low-end, get multiple subs and set them up properly with the guides you can find online.
@@iSkyline1 yeah, figured as much! I'm using diy line arrays with quad 12" subs. Now the room has the most scope for improvement. Figuring out the cheapest way to make effective acoustic panels is almost as much fun as building speakers 😉
Love it!
This must explain Why I have binned the new cm 9 and do 600 s3 for yamaha ns d 40 and roksan
I love my matrix 802 S3
I think I'll keep them.
I love my 601 s2's with my HK amp. My dream speaker is the 802 and some day i will own a pair👌
I've heard that the diamond tweeters has a high weight disadvantage and that's why more high end speaker manufacturers don't use it in their monitors. And that Beryllium is a bit harsh. Would the Kii Three's gain anything by using super premium drivers? They seem to be the ultimate rated monitors/most accurate yet they use $70 third party tweeters in their $30k speakers.
Excellent 👌
スピーカーBOXの色がとても素敵です。
So basically he's saying my brand new 600 plebeian series speakers have crappy magnets, sheet metal tweeters and a cabinet built like an Ikea flat pack.
yep but they still sound great :) (imo)
Yep, you get what you pay for ;)
... greater than the sum of its parts. 🙂👍🙏
I mean, they sound like it - the old one did anyway, not sure if its changed since I heard it. But people seem to like it.
Exactly what I was thinking...
FERROFLUID! SO COOL!
Nice!!
It would be fun to work in a place like this, creating beauty every day.
Ultra quality
now this video actually explains the insane prices
i like this orange version !
WOW!!! I'M SOLD!!!!
I love the 804D3
I want an 804 D3 in that green or blue, stop with just the white & black!
Paradigm persona offers those color options
Love my 702 S2's but wish I could afford 800 series
For money 800 serious you can't buy much better speakers or can build custom much better than BMW is only 90DB for the money it's a garbage
I dream off the 800 series pretty much every night maybe when I get older and am earning more I might be able to afford some I’m using the CMS2 range at the moment not bad
@@rustystofan1740 this is hilarious
What material do they use for the cabinets (stated in the beginning of the video)?
So, the 800 series tweeter's voice coil is surrounded by a ferro-fluid material to dissipate heat into the aluminium structure/heat-sink; that's going to introduce damping. It would be interesting to see the FEA models of the tweeters (I assume they do FEA on the tweeters as well as on the cone designs) since a traditional second order ODE of the form x'' + (c/m)x' + (k/m)x = some function (m=mass, c=damping coefficient and k stiffness) would be too simple. There's an idea for a future CZcams vid: the underlying modelling work carried out for the tweeter in the 800 series.
The ferrofluid will evaporate - leaving behind nano-magnet-dust (that's when they start sounding funny and burn out). KEF tried ferrrofluid designs lang ago. Owners will need to get a refill from time to time
ok, are we to see 800 series in that orange, green and blue?
Is this production still in the UK? Worthington? Or has everything been shifted to china?
7:40, gonna copy that my cnc . hehe
Amazing that there is a market at this price point.
cheap for what they do...
Why is it that B&W only show their factory in England that make the 800 series and not the factory in China where other stuff is made.
agzman71 Because that’s the factory I was invited to tour. I doubt I would’ve accepted an invitation to China, that’s a lot longer flight.
Because the China factory is probably shit lol
@@Squishmallows24 probably, which actually means you don’t know?
amaizing
12:04 They use a diamond dome to be able to present the finest details in music and then 16:21 they use ferro fluid to wipe out some of the details again... Okay, to be fair, the material of the voice coil former also plays an important role in that.If it's made from aluminium it's also decreasing detail.
Even the lightest racecars use shock absorbers with their springs. Damping gives you /control/ over movement in a passive mechanical system.
@@DanielFSmith : I'm sorry but your example doesn't fit here. In a car you want a smooth ride. The electrical equivalent would be DC. In a speaker movement is the main purpose. To use your analogy: I want to experience not only every bump in the road and each small stone I go over, I want to feel every tiny bug I accidentally crush under my tyres. I want the finest changes of the signal to be presented to me. That's why I dont want a _controlled_ movement.
@@mariusloubeeka5810 When you ask your mechanic for more "road feel", would they install performance shocks or weaker ones? Sure, the damper removes sound energy. That's what you need! Look at/measure the resonance curves for undamped speakers as you bounce down the road. (Would be a good topic for your podcast, in fact ;-)
@@DanielFSmith : As I said, the car example doesn't really fit.
My speakers (link to one of my videos about them below) do have quite strong cone break-up resonances because they have stiff diaphragms (beryllium dome & fibre-reinforced paper). That is also the reason why all resonances are shifted to higher frequencies (woofer: >5 kHz, tweeter: ~30 kHz) where they are either filtered out by the crossover (@ 2 kHz, 3rd order) or in a non-relevant range (>22 kHz).
I dare to say that they can compete from let's say 300 Hz to at least 40 kHz with any B&W diamond speaker. With a good soobwofer even below 300 Hz.
Thanks for mentioning my podcasts! I think I already said something about that topic in one of them.
My _Illuminata 15_ speakers: czcams.com/video/gMyE3SUvSeM/video.html
@@mariusloubeeka5810 I'm sure you appreciate that a non-relevant range is only non-relevant if everything in your system (cone, enclosure, room) is perfectly linear! If you get enough energy accumulating at 22kHz anything can start to resonate. You're only really safe when the air becomes your attenuator (at the relevant distance to the object).
Ok so They press it to make the shape. I was always thinking they carve baffles from wood. This way can whatever shape they desire, using designed pressing tool
Is it advanced space ship we need or a simple pair of loudspeakers?
What are the making?
I really like my m&k's. Haven't heard the b&w's.
I really like The President of the US. I haven't heard about Trump.
disses my beloved 602 :(
803 D3 soon come :) heck a 606 i'll be chuffed with
You mean two sheets of wood are stiffer than one? Amazing! They should laminate many layers together and build houses with it. Golly!
puts the neo magnet near his phone?
The moment he thinks that fella with the neo magnet screwed his phone
but why copper coil on the tweeter, Why not aluminum, which has a much better weight to conductivity ratio??? it does not make sense. Is it because the copper coil will be small enough for the power rating?
450lb speaker out of aluminium? B.S. Krell's Lat 1 was only 250lbs and about the size of the 800 D3 if not larger overall.
All this and it still sounds like music coming out of a box!
"A fool and his money"
That's like saying a CRT and an OLED TV both look like light coming out of a box. Stupid.
i'm convinced if you were a multi millionaire you'd still buy an integrated stack system from matsui... right? :P
Wow
Why the cameraman is filming his chest all the time (more than 5 minutes)?! 12:00
orange crush!! make it available! i know, wishful thinking.
Feel the stiffness
He is hifi’s answer to David Brent.
I would like to think that all employees at a very steep discount have a nice pair of Bowers & Wilkins at home. I know I would .
I could be wrong but I doubt most of the employees I saw on this video (apart from Andy Kerr) would have the finances or motivation to assemble a system which included an 800 series speaker. You never know though..
Great video!😣
@20:20 "...Significantly more HORSEPOWER" Wow! Rofl!
@MAD GRUMPYMAN 🎠🎠🎠
My Lord, please invest in a couple of wireless lavalier mics so we can hear what he’s talking about even when the camera is not pointed at him!
That nigga is a pretty good salesman.
Three comments: First, I own 804D3s. 1. Disappointed the tweeter tube is only there for show (as well as holding the tweeter). The original "Nautilus" premise was to let the tapering tube dissipate the back wave so it couldn't reemerge full-strength from the front (again). The demonstration clearly shows total tube blockage directly in back of the diaphragm. 2. The presenter mentions "safety concerns" regarding the speaker tipping over (from being top-heavy). I provided platforms for my 804D3s as it was clear they could fall over with minimal assistance ($325 out of my pocket). B&W thoughtfully provided platforms for their lesser model tower speakers. 3. Funny how the factory affixed some kind of paperwork directly to a driver cone with paper tape. More concern for the finish than the part people actually buy the speaker for?
P.S. Wondering if the factory ever tried the plywood pressing procedure in a vacuum chamber? Could probably get a few more percent of stiffness with the glue getting sucked into every last crevice? Love my 804s BTW.
Kenton Kirkpatrick the tweeter tube is aluminium, almost sold aluminium, is thee primarily for heat dispersion, he says that, and heat dispersion is critical! In driver components. The front baffle on my speakers have a 9mm think aluminium plate that all drivers are mounted too, for this very same reason👍🏻👍🏻.
Kenton Kirkpatrick but yes, they should have shown us at least, the paper taped to the driver, I cringed😂😂😂. Nobody would ever get close to my drivers, and I certainly do not handle them myself, that was painful to see😂😂
I forgot to mention the "ferro fluid" which is used to cool the tweeter voice coil. Anyone know the shelf-life of ferro fluid? My understanding is ferro fluid dries-up over time. Can the ferro fluid be replaced or must the tweeter be replaced? Inquiring minds want to know...
Kenton Kirkpatrick well, I’d suspect it’s a life long substance, as he mentions that the cooling properties of it, means the tweeter never gets too hot and deteriorated over time, he goes on to say that because of this this sound always stays the same, throughout the speakers life. So I’d suggest it would be a life long substance based on this...👍🏻👍🏻
@@kentonkirkpatrick5225 Life long ferro fluid. Wow! Meaning you never change the oil in your car?! If it dries up you have two options #1 New Ferrofluid or #2 New Tweeter.
For the 800 I've not money, but last month I had bought the 702 S2 My
TT Rega 3 with Exact and my ampli-McIntosh are very happy.
P.S Sorry for my English language, but i am Italien.
Fabioo '961 12/12/2020 h. 01,17
There are many speakers and then there are B&W.
It's such a shame to paint over wood that beautiful.
He sounds like Delboy from the Trotters Industry;) Is it me or did I see a toilet seat in there? Actually I have an 805D2, it does sound good.
Get some JTR 210RT's.
Maybe he can explain why all of my tweeter domes have collapsed? I have 4 cdm speakers and all for have collapsed tweeter domes.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN Yes. For the price you pay for these speaks I am shocked that this has happened. And no I didn't have kids for 10 years when these got pushed in so kids are not the culprit. They collapsed on their own from used from some strange reason. The center channel is the only one not caved in and I this that is because it is the least used.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN I lived in So Cal and the speakers where there for 10 years until I got married. For whatever reason the tweeter covers got removed from several of the speakers when I moved and were lost. I just ordered new ones. They have been missing for about 15 years and I finally got tired of not having them. I found a B&W website that sells parts and ordered the tweeter cones also. I love these speakers but my wife hates them. If I die look for them on Craig's list because they will be sold before I am cold. LOL
Thank You and enjoy. Also the reason I said it wasn't kids was that I posted before and people always says it is kids who poke them in.
My kids after I got married used a crayon or something on one of the speaker screens but that is the worst thing they have done to them.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN I had the speakers 10 years before I got married. They were pushed in before I moved to my new house.
One word: clipping
And ALL THIS TALK is the reason why home assembled DIY speaker kits WILL NEVER BE HI-FI resolution sharp, clear, deep and inert. Nuff said
That still don’t tell me why they’re so expensive 🤷♂️
WOW!
the problem with his logic about tweeters is: you're limited to the frequency response of the amplifier (i recognize a class a/b is gonna be able to play higher than class d, but upper limits is probably 40k), and the upper limit of frequencies that instruments can play is like 16k, so even though a record is capable of playing 50khz, the amplifier might only be able to play 20, and the music itself will only have up to 16. 20 is basically overkill, 70 is just to show off
Its always good practise to operate a driver well away from its break up point. Music harmonics - especially a pipe organ, can go as high as 50 kHz. Ok that is besides the point. Assuming your parameters then its nice if your driver breakup is 2 or 3 octaves away from the highest sound its expected to do. So 16 kHz for your music - one octave higher is 32k, two octaves is 64k.. so this tweeter is really only offering 2 octaves of safety. When a tweeter hits break up, the peak resonance is pretty nasty. Better to keep it a long way away.
@@theprof291166 Feeding a tweeter frequencies above 20 kHz (which is already very generous) is pointless and needlessly heats up the voice coil which introduces distortions and can lead to driver-failure at high volume-levels. Unless the resonance is within or right above the tweeters intended frequency-bandwith it will be completely inaudible anyway, so this supposed 2-3 octave safety factor is complete overkill.
I like B&W's engineering ,but they exaggerate and overstate things.
I always like how they look, but the sound is not for me.
likewise here. I like the look and dont mind the overengineering, but i dont love sounded speakers, like B&W definitely are. Perfect speakers in my opinion are very neutral, like studio monitors or a decent pair of Nubert`s
@@chewieone1064 Actually, B&W are extremely neutral. That's their calling card. And that's why some people don't like them because they're too stark. They don't sweeten the sound like, say, a JBL, which some prefer. To each his own.
David Brent has a new audience... Having owned what must have been over five pairs of the 800 series loudspeakers I am very glad to have moved on to altogether 'proper' loudspeakers afterall. Its funny how carried away these manufacturers get, it's hardly aerospace engineering...
Which new model speakers Neil?
Zingali twenty evo 1.2 - I see zingali have just found a distributor in the US so these should be available for you to go hear for yourself to in Canada... I use the Gryphon Diablo 300 with them... I have heard there are better results to be had with diablo 120 due to the loudspeaker high sensitivity @ 6 ohm...
@@neilwood8794 thank you very much Neil. Really appreciate it sir.
This guy is putting me off buying my 606s.
I still don't understand why Bentley is written on the trash can!
... even if you think the price on the 800s is outrageous, it's pretty obvious where that money goes...
How much was the factory tour?
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🎮🎮🏎🏎🏎🏎👈☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
theres some not overly well done camera work in there. But other than that, good video, very interesting
Norml B Sorry about that whole "camera aimed at shirt" segment...
@@avsforum never mind, thank you for showing us the factory ! I wouldnt do much better instead ;-)
Boom plywood
Interesting, although Mr Kerr does come across as a bit 'David Brent'.
Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mk2 kills my B&W 805S
I didn’t get the comparaison with an exotic car better performing at 100kph than a cheap one:
Il the speaker is rated +/-3db between 20hz and 20Khz, this means that it performs at its best within this range... why would we need to go much higher if that doesn’t improve the audible performances?
It DOES improve the audible performance, that's the entire point. A point of failure is never 'immediate', its gradual, so the closer you get to it, the more small issues will start appearing, which is why you want to move the point of failure as far away as possible.
Put it this way: if I asked you to run 24+ km/h, you probably cant do that for very long, because its close to the average human limit, your failure point, you get winded, red in the face, sweaty - not very "composed". Most have to go to almost half that speed, to be able to keep it up for a long time: 13 km/h is a fairly normal marathon speed. So your "comfortable" or well composed speed is only half of your max speed - same with the speaker, in theory, to reach 20khz comfortably, you often need a much higher maximum limit.
I'm not sure if this man really knows what he is talking about...
And after all that no sound test video .computer says computer says computer says
is there a reason that none of your speakers have grills?
B&W speakers definitely come with grills. I think it must be that they find it easier to show them when they are off. A lot of people also choose to leave them off. It just depends if you have pets and kids. Though cats just love speaker grilles !
Why companies like B&W and others today's days selling basically I can not say lowend but midrange speakers as High end speakers for lots of money like 15 or $20000
How long was the flight to China?
Maybe next time. The company does build some of the speakers in England.
🤣🤣🤣
Great movie, but i will keep my DALI speakers.
Control over cone movement what ? Control over cone movement is got to do with electro-mechanical and electrical between the stiffness of the spider/s And Sorround and with the factor of the Qes vs the Mms the coil winding type and the relation to motor design it’s self can can also can change cone movement not just the raw neo magnet and I have not talked about damping factors including mechanical and electrical yet control over cone movement my a**