Dr. Wolfgang Smith, Renowned Physicist, on Vertical Causation, Irreducible Wholeness and Meaning
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- I had the privilege to speak with Dr. Wolfgang Smith about his solution to the Quantum Enigma and the tripartite structure of the cosmos.
philos-sophia.org/
Vertical Ascent
Ancient Wisdom and Modern Misconceptions
Cosmos and Transcendence: Breaking through the Barrier of Scientistic Belief
The Quantum Enigma: Finding the Hidden Key
Theistic Evolution: The Teilhardian Heresy
Science and Myth: A Response to Stephen Hawking's The Grand Design
and many others
And a movie made about his life:
The End of Quantum Reality, available on Amazon
Born in Vienna in 1930, Wolfgang Smith graduated from Cornell University at age 18 with degrees in physics, mathematics, and philosophy. In a few short years he took his master’s degree in physics at Purdue University, climbed the Matterhorn, and published the first theoretical solution to the re-entry problem for space flight.
Finding himself irreconcilably at odds with the prevailing Zeitgeist, he decided to forego a professional career in the fields of his primary interest - physics and philosophy - in favor of pure mathematics, and after taking his doctorate at Columbia University, he served as professor of mathematics at M.I.T., U.C.L.A., and Oregon State University until his retirement in 1992.
Wolfgang Smith, author of the following books all available at Amazon.
(I don't receive anything from Amazon, just mention it as it's a convenient way to find all his books:-)
Vertical Ascent
Ancient Wisdom and Modern Misconceptions
Cosmos and Transcendence: Breaking through the Barrier of Scientistic Belief
The Quantum Enigma: Finding the Hidden Key
Theistic Evolution: The Teilhardian Heresy
Science and Myth: A Response to Stephen Hawking's The Grand Design
and many others
And a movie made about his life:
The End of Quantum Reality, available on Amazon
An earlier discussion with physicist friend Glen on Wolfgang Smith's ideas about vertical causation as well as a bit about Stephen Wolfram.
Toy Story as Metaphor for Quantum Measurement Problem: • The Toy Story as a Met... - Věda a technologie
After John Vervaeke talked to Wolfgang Smith, he came to this conclusion: vertical causation is an essential truth. czcams.com/video/ycuFZz3bns8/video.html
Dr Smith was my math professor at Oregon State when I was getting my undergraduate degree in math there. Great guy, super smart.
Backyard Professor brought me here. As a profoundly non-scientific person, these conversations open up a new world to me as a 75 year old grandmother. I am an ancient, gathering wisdom! Thank you all so very much. Corpus Animus Spiritus. Beyond space and time.
So glad to meet you! Hope you have fun exploring the back catalog. And the comment section is almost always worthy of deep mining:-)
Wolfgang, listening to you makes me feel like HOME. Thank YOU everyone for participating in this discussion 🪔 WE must start to see everything as a whole instead of in pieces. Especially, in all subjects in and of life ( sciences & mathematics) 🌌
I am immediately enthusiastic on seeing Teilhardianism described as heresy in the description!
Excellent, thank you all. I keep thinking about the way our phones and other electronics keep us looping on the periphery.
Makes sense since quantum mechanics made them possible:-)
I would love to see a conversation between Wolfgang and John Lennox
The Whole is ever greater than the sum of it's constituents.
Wholeness is an integral Way of Being, Knowing and Doing.
Value free is also a value.
Thank God you didn't give up Karen, this is one of the most important dialogs of the corner...and you find them!
I’m having another one with him and John Vervaeke together on Friday. Can’t wait:-) You might enjoy some of his books. I am simultaneously reading three of them, cosmos and transcendence, ancient wisdom, and Vertical Ascent.
Wonderful conversation. The connection between Descartes and Democritus is profound. Insightful cuts made to the subject hollows the dative case; in a real sense, the history of philosophical reflection is the history of grammatical turns of phrase, of the invention of recognition itself. What do I mean? To take a concrete example to illustrate my point, the indicative mood and the dative case, on one level, are aspects of the construction of a sentence - and in the sentence qua unit of composition the equivalent sentence in a different language can be found, which is the ground of the trees of the fruit with the seed of translation. Icons relate to the dative case as the rays of light relate to the window, the indicative mood relates to the icon as the eyes of the subject relate to the shining window. If we turn our backs to the symbol, then we see an earthquake.
Profoundly delightful! Thank you for sharing this kind of interviewing, discussing, learning. Just beautiful!
Excellent conversation.
Thanks, Brad!
Just purchased both of his books from listening to this video (via PVK’s recommendation). I hope leaving this comment helps with getting great guests like this in the future too.
Yay! I’m always working at it, but many guests are reluctant to appear on such a small channel. “Like, subscribe and share” gives the channel more visibility and soon I’ll be able to gather some of those speakers. In the meantime, you will find that the previous conversations on the channel, even with those who are less known, are exploring these very important patterns and connections.
PVK sent me here, and I am so glad he did. This discussion is blowing my mind and syncing so many categories of ideas. I can hardly stand it 😂.
The dynamic of physics and wholeness is so spot on. I am working on an essay on the sci fi film Arrival for the Stmbolic World Blog, and this talk has added so much to the analysis.
Thank you so much for this trialogue.
Maybe the two of us could plan a conversation for sometime late July or August. What do you think of that?
@@TheMeaningCode let's go for it. I think the conversation could benefit our listeners and each other. If you would, grab my email from the about page on my channel, and let's set a date.
Slow to find this, but Dr Wolfgang Smith is well worth listening to.
Have you also seen the one he did with Jonathan Pageau and the one with John Vervaeke? I tried to line him up with Michael Levin, but Dr. Levin wasn’t interested. Also, Wolfgang’s interview on the TOE channel is one of his best.
@@TheMeaningCode Will look for them. I sometimes like to go to sleep listening to thinkers. I have enjoyed TOE's interviews several times ... he is an insightful young man ... more vertical than Lex.
Incredible discussion!
Excellent, Karen. Thanks to all three. Will circle back after PVK's live Q&A for another listen.
This was my favorite interview so far- Thanks Karen!
I'm struggling with picking between Glenn and this, but that's a pleasurable dilemma!
I really enjoyed this conversation. So glad that others are making the rather embarrassingly simple points (we like to seem smart, simple points bother us) that highlight the problems with the materialist (as in, material is primary) world view. Talking about vertical causation is a good way to re-introduce Aristotle's final cause! For me, this vertical causation is the axis of quality that is missing from the purely scientific calculations. Dealing with wholeness is super important as that ties back to John Vervaeke's Relevance Realization - how do I know what the proper level of analysis is?
Really wonderful talk as always! Thanks!
Aristotle? Actually, Dr Smith actually considers Plato as the ultimate philosopher over Aristotle, who he perceives as leading into the current emphasis on horizontal causation. incomplete . I won’t go into his explanation. You’d have to read his books, the latest one may suffice, to understand his theory.
Wonderful to see this.
Let me know in the comment thread what you think about his ideas after you watch this.
A discussion earlier on the channel with physicist friend Glen about Wolfgang Smith's ideas, and a little Wolfram thrown in for good measure. czcams.com/video/dFqGjvocYPw/video.html
Very pertinent observation about the ideological take over of education and universities. Even in what are supposedly theological faculties, the dominance of non-Christian philosophies is evident. I am reminded of the observations in the book "Historical Criticism of the Bible - Methodology or Ideology" by Etta Linnemann, a former student of Bultmann. She recommended establishing a Christian academic education by dissociation from the modern universities with their anti-Christian intellectual starting point.
Isn't much/most of ancient Greek philosophy - not quite Christian and not anti-Christian - in essence ?
So we add this - and then the other ingredients - to the mix - while cooking.
I use Indian ayurveda chillies - 'Buddhist' vegetables - shamanic spices - in my cooking, constantly. Soooo good.
All human thinking - has come - via, the vibrations - from the Real Being.
These - form into thinking and words - in the language - we use and live in.
If we use - all these gifts and methods - with love and due care and knowledge - we will hopefully taste - the spirit - and not grind our teeth - on semi-cooked (understood) parts.
These are gratefully received - wholesomely utilised and healthily absorbed - in the Real Being's essence.
May it be so. (Fare thee well)
"Ideology driven from below....a counter religion". Thank you, Wolfgang Smith. Brilliant and must be applied to many, if not most, facets of the world today. We battle Principalities. Ave Joseph!
What a fascinating conversation! Thank you so much; it takes courage to challenge the very worldview of modern West. As a theologian and science fan, I yearn for a reconciliation of these two. Btw, I got here through the Symbolic Community circles. Greetings from Colombia, South America!
Welcoming me to The Meaning Code. We also have a great conversation between Wolfgang and John Vervaeke and a couple more are coming up soon. Also I have some with John Vervaeke and Michael Levin.
Wow, this was awesome. What a fascinating conversation. Thank you all so much for sharing it with us.
I have to say though, I had an experience midway through college when dropping acid that allowed me to realize the levels to consciousness, that there wasn't just my individual experience, but that experience translates up and out into City, State, Country, and even Global manifestations. It really opened my eyes to see how everything was interconnected with everything else in profound ways. Not all psychedelic experiences have to be negative. Maybe that's not what you all were conveying, but I just wanted to say it. Again fantastic conversation. Shout out to Paul Vanderklay for pointing me to this beautiful talk through his coverage. 😁👍
Just a warning, I think, to know that for some, they can be dangerous. I’ve heard others tell of experiences like yours. If you liked this, you might enjoy some of my other physics episodes.
brilliant!
I'm always surprised that I don't often hear Bergson referenced. His metaphysic aligns with what WS and others have been circling around lately.
Bergson, until he repented in his final days, were evolutionist thru n thru. It's doubtful that Dr. Wolfgang has anything to do with Bergson.
Its brilliant. Whatever little I understand from Mr. Smith's talk is constantly reminding me of the Quran. I am sorry I had to say this here, cant help. Simply brilliant.
Hi Karen, I haven’t followed your channel enough. Just wanted to chime in about Smith’s comments about the intermediary realm. Music is used in every form of cultic ritual to either accompany or directly facilitate transition to the intermediary realm, perhaps precisely because it is the art form par excellence of conveying “time but not space.”
By the way did you produce that artwork in your intro?
Yes.
Love all the cellos! Curious if you have any for sale 😂
@@Drewsicology That might be arranged. Some are 30x 30 and some are 20x20. E-mail me either from m my art site or my old blog. Links in the about section.
I recommend the online article "Critique of Fr. Teilhard de Chardin by Dr. Dietrich von Hildebrand" on the absolute primacy of Christ site.
I couldn't even pause this conversation.
How dare you shake the foundations of non sequitur contemporary logic. I offer you my support. Thanks for the conversation.
Excellent... A deep dive... I enjoyed the exploration from Math, Physics, Philosophy, Religion through the everlasting search for truth!
I see a lot of overlapping between his work and John Vervaeke's and Peterson's, would love to see them potentially do dia-logos.
Yes! I’ll talk to John and see if he’s willing.
@@TheMeaningCode amazing!
Measurement verifies the accuracy of the predictions. It doesn’t collapse the waveform. The “waveform” of a particle is a mathematical artifact, not a physical entity.
After reading a lot of the comments, I thought I’d mention that Dr Smith is a Traditionalist philosopher. The significance of his work is that he is a both an accomplished scientist and a true philosopher (in the sense of “True” or “Real” Philosophy dealing with ontology rather than the modern logic games sort). Traditionalist philosophers believe in a Perennial Philosophy behind all of the world religions, which manifest along their specific cultures and don’t share the exact same dogma (eg. Islamic vs Christian vs Jewish). Metaphysics is key. Dr Smith is a Christian, having turned to it after meeting his wife, Thea. He mentions Jean Borella, who is a brilliant Christian Traditionalist. Look up Borella’s works if interested. Major Traditionalists include Henri Corbin, René Guenon, Ananda Coomeraswamy, Titus Burkhardt, Martin Lings, Seyyed Hossein Nasr,and even Karen Armstrong.
Thanks for that background!
I gathered much of that from reading his books, but didn’t know the terminology of “traditionalist”.
Wolfgang is not, however, a Traditionalist (or Perennialist), though many have made the mistake of lumping him into that category, seemingly only on the grounds that he's quoted certain Perennialist thinkers.
@@PhilosSophiaInitiative Ah! Thanks! I was introduced to him by an old Seyyed Hossein Nasr lecture awhile ago (years!) which dealt with his quantum enigma book and that publisher was Sophia Perennis/Angelico Press - hence my confusion- but he’s now with your publishing enterprise. Thanks for clearing that up for me, as it makes total sense in retrospect and clears things up considerably! You’re coming at all of this through Peripatetic/Aristotelian Christian angle.
I have read several of Smith’s books because of my interest in his views on Descartes and Quantum Theory but I was always curious on his geocentric perspective - which I personally disagree with despite finding his essay on Astrology fascinating. I have been an astrologer for well over 4 decades now and use both Tropical & Sidereal zodiacs but find the Sidereal more spot on. And not only that but as an astrophotographer, when I can directly perceive a planet or the Moon in a specific constellation during the night, that’s where it is not approximately 23 degrees later in the zodiac.
I must add, however, that while I believe in a perennial wisdom tradition I don’t ascribe to the more modern traditionalist perspective wholesale - but I will say the works of Guénon, Corbin and Coomaraswamy have been pivotal for my individual outlook. That specifically has to do with a profound sapiential experience of mine which is best described by what Otto Rank coined as the “mysterium tremendum et fascinans “ which NO discursive philosophy even approaches on a practical level and is more akin to the result of a Sufi or other mystic practice. And that’s not something which can be, or should be discussed, especially on a CZcams comment thread.
As far as “philosophy “ goes though, I hope that collectively we can all get past the dualistic perspective of Aristotle & Plato which plagues our collective ability to think clearly. It is unfortunate that “ the philosophical life as an integrated combination of practice and perception fell apart at the seams, and another ideal came to predominate instead … so as to become the defining characteristic of what was to prove the most enduring Athenian contribution to intellectual history: instead of the love of wisdom, philosophy turned into the love of talking and arguing about the love of wisdom” after Plato & Aristotle as Peter Kingsley wrote in his ANCIENT PHILOSOPHY, MYSTERY, & MAGIC. But here we are, talking and arguing about the love of wisdom.
@@IpsissimusPrime
If one found it necessary to "pin him down," Wolfgang would say he's a Platonist, not an Aristotelian; not that he's _opposed_ to Aristotle. Most of those who seem content to dub themselves Platonists or Aristotelians do seem to think that if you subscribe to one you cannot possibly think the other has anything right. And that's a position that's quite wrong.
@@PhilosSophiaInitiative agree! That’s great to hear! Right now I’m currently struggling to get through Arthur Herman’s THE CAVE AND THE LIGHT: PLATO VERSUS ARISTOTLE, AND THE STRUGGLE FOR THE SOUL OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION for just that reason! Such hyperbolic drama!
29:30 ish the "measuring 'system'" (I don't like the word system. I'd say body.) is not in the material level (of field if you bring in Rupert Sheldrake's Morphic fields). Yes. This is the hard problem of consciousness. What is it that SEES?
42:50 re the modernist view of physics and philosophical materialism “nobody really believes it.”
Amen. They just *think* they do. Believe vs think.
“Meaning governs matter.” PVK
Oh yea!
This Idea of the center seems to be something like Martin Heidegger's Ecstatic Temporality (not the everyday time we experience, but the ground of experience).
Could you say more about that? I'm not familiar with Heidegger's Ecstatic Temporality. I've been thinking a lot about time lately, especially the idea that time heals. The fruit in the garden was eaten fresh but the fruit of the vine, the wine of Christ's blood, was fermented, a process in time.
@@TheMeaningCode Ecstatic Temporality is who we are authentically and then there is Within-time-ness which is the time of calendars and clocks; the original clock is astronomical ( day and night ). Ecstatic Temporality is in chapter 5 of division 2 of Being and Time and Within-time-ness is in chapter 6. Of course, Within-time-ness is the everyday experience of time and we are Ecstatic Temporality which can be expressed as care which is defined as “ always ahead of ourselves in already being there with our projects of care”. The book “ Being and Time “ is one of Martin Heidegger’s greatest works.
Would love to see these guys talk with Don Hoffman
Karen made a comment in another podcast about his “types,” so I take it this group of 3 aren’t fans of his
@@James-mk8jp in this case, what are the "types"?
@@nodeinanetwork6503 youtuber physicists is what Karen said - how people are enamored with them just as people follow priests.
It’s a shame, because up until I heard her say that I thought the same as you
@@James-mk8jp wow, yeah I wouldn't have thought of putting Hoffman in that category. There could be a misconception happening.
Brilliant. I agree about mentalism is flawed… mental is a sense limited of a whole conscious of foundational characteristics; a unique characteristic of everything includes Wolfgang Pauli exclusion principle.. two particles cannot occupy the same state and be the same particle.. I believe space and time to be the same as the unique exclusion principle of spatial uniqueness.. we are constantly in motion, occupy the highest potential, purpose of conscious evolution. Greater then the sum of the whole and the whole is unique to the unique parts.
no man can step in the same river twice, it is not the same river and it is not the same man. -Heraclitus
Allowing cultures to be who they are, believes what they want, and coexist, we are not having to control anybody or anything, because allowing unique characteristics is the purest form of individuality. Control is not scientific, science is absence of hierarchy..” bad boy” philosophy science is about discovery and adventure but respect other cultures and their knowledge.
For me it's not weird that we see a chair as a chair instead of it's parts. In most cases it's just more practical to do so.We can still contemplate the parts if it becomes relevant. The chair emerges from the parts when manipulated by a human and his or her tools.The chair dosen't need to exist in another realm as a whole chair first before we build it.😊
It’s hard to imagine that I could build a chair without some idea of what a chair is, even if I had all the parts.
@@TheMeaningCode it seems to me that imagining the chair & how it might be constructed from wood & nails for instance, does not in any way require that the chair exists as a whole in some other realm.
@@primatejames In this instance, the chair concept is a “stand in”. In other words, is the universe built from the particles upward, or is it first “whole”, at least in concept) before it comes into being?
@@TheMeaningCode idk ,it dosen't ring true for me. Obviously, Wolfgang Smith is a brilliant man,but other brilliant people, like Stephan Wolfram have shown that complexity arises out of the simple systems & that new properties emerge from this process.
@@primatejames I like Wolfram, too, but even his version of the cosmos has a rule set, or all possible rule sets.
I would have asked what he thought of ghost “orbs” caught on video and electronic voice phenomenon on audio recordings and how these would show up in our physics or how we show up in their physics. There is so much evidence I don’t understand why it is still ignored. It would definitely support the intermediary realm he discussed with an exorcist.
Maybe folding our hands is really all we need but we first learn our hands are ours as a baby then we learn to fold our hands.
Similarly, to learn of all our realms available to us might give us another way to fold our “hands”.
Also should have asked what the heck are they really doing at CERN?
36:18 “we have the capacity to *conceive* of it as a whole.”
I would say no. Unless, by conceive, you mean “see”, with the mind’s eye or something.
I’m trying to be careful by pointing this out because sometimes our mouths betray our deeper ways of construing or thinking.
We can only see real things. With either or material eyes using our senses, or with our mind’s eye using our higher imagination.
It’s all imagination. “Imagination is a truth-bearing faculty.”
We see reality. We just don’t always think we do.
Not quite understanding what you’re saying here, Luke. When he talks about corporeal, he means real things. Chairs and people and single cells and anything else that has substance and quality. When he says physical, he means the quantum make up of that object that does not include the qualities.
In Dante’s Commedia the word that appears most often is ‘occhi’, which means eyes. His great work written 700 years ago lines up brilliantly with Dr McGilchrist’s focus on the role of attention, perception, intuition and imagination.
It is all longing and desire, care and attention. Hans Rookmaaker’s lecture ‘What is Reality?’ ditto. Incorporated experience trumps all. You have to get in the Peterson muck of the bad diner before you can start to see the potential for the new creation. As Rookmaaker says “You see what you know.”
@@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 Thanks for reminding me of that Rookmaeker quote. I don’t get the reference to the bad diner, could you say more?
You have to experience all of reality: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Experience as Christ did: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. The great paradox of life. And it is all good!
The importance of ambiguity. Dr McGilchrist’s deep insight.
Most Christians are actually Cartesians.
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. What's the takeaway from this conversation?
How do you measure in the corporeal realm? I understand the tool of measurement here is perception, but what is the measurement for this tool? I’m gonna have to buy this book! Thank you for the lovely video!
Corporeal realm is the realm of sight and touch or a realm of the five senses. The physical realm, as hermes by WS, is the realm that needs special measurment took bcos it's a realm of unseen by naked eye and exist in potentia. From my understanding, the reason why he says physical realm is bcos it is the domain of physicist while corporeal from corpus meaning bodily existence. It takes a while to get into his terminology. I hope you buy his books and enrich your understanding of this important subject.
@@bachamadu2076 thank you for responding to my comment. I’m actually writing about about vertical causation. I believe I have discovered the scientistic perspective needed to actually have a “science” for VC.
A micrometer, a caliper, a rule, or a tape measure. Our realm's measurement tools.
@@josephjohnson3738 to clarify what my comment is saying:
What is the fundamental metric that these tools measure? Essentially, is there a common mechanism that applies to all possible tools, and what specific and/or conceptual tools are used to measure this mechanism?
Karen, I want to thank you for sharing your videos. This particular one about Wolfgang Smith not only expanded my understanding but also introduced me to his fascinating world. I've since read two of his books and it's been enlightening. I appreciate the exposure you've provided to his work. Also, thank you for having me and Alex on your channel. It was great! I can’t wait to show you the book on theme, which directly relates to Wolfgang’s work and my questions in this comment.
It is quite ironic that Physicists using measuring tools and minds existing in the plane of this world think their findings (that they perceive are in the plane of another, more valid world) discount the very tools and minds they used to come to those conclusions.
Bravo!
Can anyone help me with the mention of “john varela" (metaphysician)?
I cannot seem to find him via Google…
Am I spelling the name wrong?
Thanks!
Time stamp?
@@TheMeaningCode
34:17
Thanks!
@@MrHwaynefair Jean Borella
@@TheMeaningCode ❤Thanks SO much, Karen!
Danke Wolfgang. Sehen Sie ähnliche Ansätze wie bei Burckhardt Heim?
Hi, what do people think about ecology as a science of irreducible wholeness versus the atomisation of physics and chemistry?
That's an interesting idea. The worldwide (food) web seems like an irreducible wholeness, the relationship between hummingbirds and deep-throated flowers, between giant sequoias seeds needing forest fires, etc.
@@TheMeaningCode It seems to me that Dr. Smith's ideas have a lot to offer the ecological movement, which is currently under attack from transhumanism. For example, we see a lot of 'green' politicians under pressure to accept the notion that a man can become a woman or vice versa by removing or adding body parts, in the name of 'kindness' or inclusivity. However, if the human body is considered as a complex system and irreducible whole, just one part of a much larger irreducible whole we call the ecosystem, then it should be obvious that attempting to improve the body with crude surgeries, implants and hormonal disruptors cannot end well for the individual or society at large. In that sense, perhaps transhumanism is the reductionism of mainstream physics and chemistry applied to 'fixing' the human condition.
He's 92!
1:18:55 re the “wise professors” I call these technically proficient people “smart dumb”.
So my first question is where is Above and where is Below. Is the Universe Geocentric and below is Earth's core while above is everywhere else? Or is it Heliocentric?
You need to check Dr. Robert Sungenis. Btw, Dr. Wolfgang is more incline to Geocentrism than heliocentrism.
1:05:00 but Christianity (Christ) gave birth to AntiChrist (his shadow, false-self) & that is individualism, divided man, and ideology.
This is my critique of confessionalism, repeating empty platitudes. Not saving the appearances. Not holding ideas iconically.
ie scientism is downstream, the fruit, of Confessionalism
In-FORM-ation - the essence of form?
The Book is the Strongest Strong’s EXHAUSTIVE Concordance PUBLISHED by ZONDERVAN It is where the Author of All Things. Has written about the Beginning, the first of All Things. The Little Words the littlest Words, for the humble beginnings of Mankind. The Root Words are the Keys to understanding the meaning of the Words. Even the number of times, a word is used. The thousands of Books are in the works of the verses. Who will write them ? Everything points to the Son given for his own good, works.
As the views widen vision get to quantum conciseness. Good video. It is apparent that the lower level of vertical ascent is chaos upon which the three levels degined for the wholeness .But ultimate solution of measurement is in the void of time.
Is this incomplete notion makes the fake physics paradigm or quantum world?
The pseudo cartician impacts is discreet the behaviour of physics observable
You said, "But ultimate solution of measurement is in the void of time." Could you say more about what you mean by that? I've been thinking about the idea that time heals. The fruit in the garden of Eden was eaten fresh, consumed right off the tree raw, but the fruit of the vine, the wine of Jesus' blood, went through a fermentation process, a process of time. So that time redeems. That gets into another quandary, though, because there is fermentation used for a good purpose, to preserve, to bring community and healing, and fermentation used for a bad purpose, personal pleasure, pride, lust.
@@TheMeaningCode As your coat as a wholeness spam which is blood less. On the contrary your quest of difficult questions on evil's will .
Let it be on science of solitary , void is an absorbed Devine of creation an algorithm that nature perform.
Very tough indeed, difficult biology of fermentation a complex chemical cause.
For dummys like me is there a bite sized version 😂 no 'matter' if not 😉
I mean how is platonism compatible with the Trinity? Similar in certain regards but neo platonism is what the Roman Catholics ended up with. I thought ADS was incompatible with Orthodoxy?
@@RedShnow What is ADS?
@@TheMeaningCode Absolute Divine Simplicity. The neo platonic doctrine that “The One” god has no real distinctions. Which is a problem because the Energies of God are truly distinct from the Essence. This is the founding presupposition of what you know is ‘Theosis’. Participation in uncreated energy.
Otherwise we would participate in the essence (aka Pantheism). Another way to demonstrate this. What do you participate in in the Eucharist. The essence? No. Created grace? That’s just a creature not in any way God. The only way to participate is to admit the real distinction between essence/energy. You participate in the uncreated energies, as God is fully present in them. The energies are truly as distinct as the persons of the trinity. All of whom/which are God.
This is one of the main disagreements between Orthodoxy and Papalism.
11:00 Logoi. Sperms of the logos. At the center of anything that *is* is Christ, the unity of every multiplicity.
And then regarding "corporeal" entities vs. physical ones. They are both bodies, just bodies of a different kind. One is spiritual, one is material. One is perishable, one...more imperishable (not sure if all spiritual bodies are eternal).
Maybe one could say that all unities (of multiplicities) are bodies. This is VERY non/anti-nominalism and cartesian. Whatever IS has a body, necessarily.
Dante is the reader’s closest friend because he consistently experiences in his body, like we all do. And he tells his true story, no holds barred. It is gruesome and as full of horror and also indescribable beauty as our very own stories.
He begins……In the middle of the path of OUR LIFE…..I found myself lost…..
Right there in the first line, he resolves the subjectivity/ objectivity false divide and the community dance is seen. What a relief! No more lies. You can’t dance without a body and neither can the angels. Or the rocks for that matter…..
There is no spiritual, no material. It is all fractal, moving to the centre, like all ways. Reality is circular. Even Dr McGilchrist’s spiral is off. Dante’s Paradiso has no levels per say and he says so in no uncertain terms. Dante destroys all Platonism, neo or not. It is all reflection, seeing the stars and sex.
Look like Dr Wolfgang want create new culture, above scientific rationalism))
Dawkins poisoned so many thirsty young minds.
I mostly loved this, but I think the idea that entire intermediary is demonic is wrong, that's a relatively late Christian reading, but he's still right to caution people about venturing into it causally and it in in part demonic even if that's not all that it is.
Regarding evolution, I submit the following from Valentin Tomberg:
This is the “groping trial”, to which natural evolution owes much, which
speaks this time. It is the method of so-called natural evolution which has
replaced since the Fall the world created by God (i.e. “paradise”). Because
evolution proceeds gropingly from form to form, trying and rejecting, then
trying anew…The world of evolution from protozoa to vertebrates and from
vertebrates to mammals and then to apes and to pithecanthropus is neither the
accomplishment of absolute wisdom nor absolute goodness. It is rather the
work of a really vast intelligence and a very resolute will pursuing a definite
aim determined by the method of “trial and error”. One could say that it is a
matter more of a great scientific intellect and the will of an experimenter
which is revealed in natural evolution (the existence of which one can no
longer deny), rather than divine wisdom and goodness. The tableau of
evolution that the natural sciences-above all biology-have at last obtained
as the result of prodigious work reveals to us without any doubt the work of a
very subtle, but imperfect, intellect and a very determined, but imperfect, will.
It is therefore the serpent, “the most artful animal of the fields”, that the world
of biological evolution reveals to us, and not God. It is the serpent who is the
“prince of this world”, and who is the author and director of the purely
biological evolution following the Fall. Read The Phenomenon of Man by
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, which gives the best summary and interpretation
that I know of natural evolution; study this book and you could not arrive at
any other conclusion than that the world of evolution is the work of the
serpent of paradise, and that it is only since the prophetic religions (of which
there were many) and Christianity that the “good news” (evangelion) of
another way than that of the evolution of the serpent exists.
Now, the tempter proposed to the Son of Man the method to which he
owes his existence: the trial. “Throw yourself down and it will be seen if it is
true that you are the Son of God and that you are not as I am, the son of
evolution, son of the serpent.”
That's a sneak preview for you, as this is likely to be discussed in the next Grail Country tomorrow.
But I agree with him on everything important.
I think you misunderstood him or maybe he only talked about that part, but the intermediary is the place of all the angelic hierarchies. He only mention the demonic in reference to the fact that if you are on a psychedelic trip and you don’t know your way through the intermediary, there are dangers there.
@@TheMeaningCode right, but it's not just demon/angel even it's more messy than that. There are elemental spirits etc., Look at any cultures folklore and mythology and you will see it's quite a populated place. He's from the Germanic world, where does he think alfs and swarvtalfs etc , reside. I did acknowledge his point about the danger of psychedelics, heck I have made the point myself.
@@grailcountry I hesitate to say what he thinks about this realm as he’s written a dozen books and I’ve only scratched the surface.
As Karen rightly explained, Wolf's point was simply that the intermediary is necessarily "dangerous" _because_ this is a place where demonic forces tread. But he would be the first to admit that it is not _only_ an abode of demons. The latter may be how the Orthodox primarily view the "aerial world"; but not sure. In any case there are, strictly speaking, manifold "layers" within the intermediary or "subtle" realm.
The more important point, however, for our purposes, is simply that this is a domain subject to the bound of time but _not_ of space, which has profound implications for one's understanding of physics. For instance, if time and space are indeed _distinct_ - and if the temporal is indeed more foundational than the spatial - then the theory of relativity is simply a no-go from the outset, as one of its core tenets is "space-time," wherein space and time comprise a single "fabric," as it were (to speak of "space" vs. "time" is, in the relativistic paradigm, essentially twelve of one vs. a dozen of the other).
In any case, the question of the so-called "Longaevi" apropos the intermediary is indeed an interesting question.
"christianiy is not an ideology, it's the whole" must say the related ideologist, what else, haha
Christianity without Judaism is an idealogy.
Could you say more?
First of all, you made Wolgang Smith accessible through intelligent questions. Second, your definition of idealism discussed 1 hour in provoked the comment. Dr. Smith is an accessible resource on Metaphysics and what makes Western Christian Religion plausible and the mystery all baked in. In its 'great tradition' theology, Christianity is Greek Philosophy, Roman Natural Law such is idealogy, and Jesus is the Messiah from such a description. However, one cannot understand such great traditional metaphysics without Judaism and the Kabbala Tree of life. That DAAT, the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, is in ashes through modern physics, both mechanical and nuclear, namely because of metaphysics as DAAT exists as descriptive metaphysics severed from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you look at DAAT: Knowledge, Intelligent, Will, these were the focus of the medieval monastic orders to describe the imago Dei, but there is so much more! Namely, the Dominicans (intellect) and Franciscans (will), and similar approaches by Islamic Philosophers and Maimonides on knowledge are hegemonic. "Knowing" (one word in English) but two (cognosere & sapere) in most others, including the romance from Latin and German (Kennen und Wissen), looks like something wholistic from a Hebrew Judaic worldview. DAAT as fruit eaten has left us isolated, sure, we may have described something from a certain angle, BUT it exists alone. The problem with thinking that Eastern Orthodoxy or Romanism is a prescription for flat post Reformation modernity is that all Christian tradtiions created an idealogy out of Judaism.
@@fahznab Would you like to talk about it?
@@fahznab Dr Iain NcGilchrist, just saying. In his tome, The Matter with Things.
@@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 The book you mention is an inquisitive tour de force but when it comes to the divine (where Iain McGilchrist continues to be honest and impressively describes yet fails to prescribe, except from philosophical contructs), the western metaphysical tradition is stuck on one of the Aristotelian categories, jettisoning substance and exploring the accident "relation." Relation is all about pursuing the divine, the Holy Other who revealed himself to Abraham, his offspring, walking with Him and then keeping the mitzvot given, keeping the oracles, and being a light to the nations, a relation most reject. However, it is all about a Messiah, ben Yosef reality and ben David to come. Such revelation has been an unbearable burden for Abraham's offspring, and its prescription gets them through, however the story is not over.
Pseudo-babble meant to impress and confuse laypeople. Absolute nonsense.
"Christianity is not an ideology" 😂😂.....its man made BS, she should not be on the panel