Sega 32x Tomb Raider???
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- čas přidán 4. 01. 2024
- Tomb Raider has been ported to the ill-fated SEGA 32X system! The first level anyways...
Check the game out here: github.com/XProger/OpenLara/r...
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#TombRaider #Sega #32x #retrogaming #Openlara #laracroft - Hry
The Sega CD can communicate with the 32x so I wonder with it could be a Sega cd32x port.
Since the sega cd had basically no copy protection, that could be an interesting idea. The main bottleneck there would be ram and the painfully slow 1x cd drive
@@Redcactus5 You could use it simply for audio playback, it has seperate control for that so not taking up much (if any) power from the actual 3D computing and game logic. The Sega CD does also add some computing power to the megadrive, though to be fair it's not massive and went basically unused in nearly all games (I think only Sonic CD and Batman really used it).
@@relo999you make some very good points. I was more thinking that the cd format could fix the capacity issues and make distribution much easier, though I could be wrong about that. Your points are still very valid though! :)
I'd like to see this.
@@relo999 To the best of my understanding, the homebrew Doom 32X Resurrection project uses the Sega CD to free up the Genesis from processing the audio, even without a corresponding CD in the drive, thus improving the framerate. It's only a marginal benefit, but it's impressive to see it utilised.
As someone who programs 3D on the Game Boy Advance, that Open Lara port is way beyond impressive.
"but can it run openlara?" is becoming the new "but can it run doom?"
I always remember being disappointed when magazines listed tomb raider for n64 but then eventually removed it from coming soon lists. That’s a port I’d love to see
The 32X is more powerful than the GBA so it was not so shocking to me after seeing the GBA version.
The story is Tomb Raider was originally planned for the Jaguar CD (as in the first concept first version was supposed to be on Jaguar, similar to Rayman). Work may have started on it.
Just an information regarding the comments about an 32X CD port as a solution to storage: it’s not possible because of the RAM. This level alone is 2MB that you can access any time via cartridge. But the 32X only has 256KB of RAM, and the Sega CD manages memory transfer in a very specific way. That’s why only FMV games were released for the combo.
The Sega CD, however, can be used to boost performance - not by much, mind you.
Or stream music and FMV, in a cartridge/CD combo.
Yeah, I figured that the most viable use of the CD would be to store music, voice clips and FMV.
I suppose that you could do something really out there and find a way to open up a means for the CD drive to directly communicate with a system on a chip inside of the cartridge, but at that point you may as well dispense with the two add ons completely and just have the game run entirely on the cartridge and just have the basic mega drive functioning as a really inefficient DAC for the streamed video and audio from the game.
I guess that you could potentially also use the CD to bolster the amount of memory available for textures and possibly some visual effects and sprites (something basic like the muzzle flash from a gun, a fog effect, something really far in the distance, or some lens flare. The sort of thing that won't need to be rotated or deformed in order to make sense relative to the camera angle and can be integrated into the scene by being smart with the draw order so that it doesn't display over the top of objects that should be nearer to the camera.)
If the sprite sheets are well optimised, then you could probably do some very old school stuff involving sprite sheets and lookup tables to allow for 2D sprites to be made from some common elements, so each object is drawn from one or more tiles taken from the palette and they can be mixed and matched to create different things, though finding a suitable application for that technique that won't be jarring is probably not going to be all that easy, especially since the addition of music and voice lines would be more effective at making the game feel authentic to the original, which is what the goal of the exercise seems to be.
EDIT: it may be possible to integrate something similar to the way that Doom draws its wall sprites: arranging them as a series of vertical strips that are scaled vertically and/or removed depending on the distance and angle of the wall relative to the camera. May be too much to expect that to work in addition to what's already on screen and presumably there's already a means to do this within tomb raider through putting a texture onto a flat plane, though if it's viable it does reduce the number of actual polygons being rendered and it may improve performance a bit by using a method that's been demonstrated to work through official releases on the platform
except the Sega CD had way more than FMV games.... jeesh
@@Tolbat Combo, he said. So the games that required both the 32X and CD units.
Might be doable with extra ram in a cartridge.
Playing through this on PS1 atm. Absolute classic. This port looks interesting, but honestly I'd like to see an N64 port.
I guess, but the N64 could obviously do full 3d
I'm sure someone will do it for completionist sake at this rate but I think the fact that the N64 has no limitations that would make TR seem impossible to do means no one's really jumping at the opportunity to prove themselves with it
There's some videos of openlara running on N64 on CZcams.
Once they optimize the texture compression, possibly introduce a lower texture resolution, enable the 2nd SH2 to offset some of the number crunching and I imagine it would be over 20-25FPS+.
Nice! I like when developers port newer games over to older tech that you wouldn't expect. Portal 64 is also currently being ported over to the N64 by James Lambert (he has a CZcams channel documenting his progress).
Also, as others have stated, I would imagine that putting it on the Sega CD 32x could be an option, but I think it would be more impressive to put it all on the cartridge. I've always thought it was impressive, but MVG also talked about Resident Evil 2 being an impossible port for the Nintendo 64 (fitting the two-disc game on one 64 MB cart, with all FMVs intact).
They need to port this to the Texas Instruments calculator, now that will be an accomplishment
Someone correct me but I don't believe Portal 64 is a port. I believe it's a custom engine and game for the 64 being built in the likeness of the original Portal.
@@Charlie-eq3dj Maybe port isn't the correct term, but maybe 'demake' is more accurate. But, I think you're correct, it's not an actual 'port'.
I’d be amazed if they can get this running on the Jaguar. Now that would be crazy.
Pretty sure the Jaguar could do 3d better than the 32x could
I could see that being a real possibility. Considering this version is running via software rendering on a single CPU and not even using the 3D hardware of 32X. Jaguar would be far beyond this.
John Carmack once said the single thing holding back performance on Jaguar was the limited CPU cache of Tom/Jerry, in that, if the cache was doubled Jaguar would be very close to the Ps1. I'm sure that with the right optimizations and - well - short cuts we would be able to see something close of the platform.
@@Jabjabs Good one
Jaguar has more native power than the 32x and the GB Advance so its very feasible to do.
@@Jabjabs If they had doubled the cache, removed the moto 68000 and had decent dev kits, it would have been better thn Saturn and the PS1.
Loved the 32x. The new doom for it is mind blowing
There is an ancient demo from, I believe it was created by Saga themselves to show off what the system was capable off back when the 32X was first released, and based on that demo I felt that it could have been a contender during the 32-bit generation if it had been it's own system, or at least better supported. I have to say, I feel very vindicated right now. I think it's actually a much bigger feat to get it running on the GBA
Cool stuff. One would think it could run pretty good considering it had an official Saturn version. Saturn had the same CPU’s albeit about 3mhz faster than 32X. As far as size, put it on CD. The Sega CD can be used in conjunction with the 32X as evidenced by official releases. I’m impressed by all the open Tomb Raider projects. Kinda like the new Doom! What will it run on next?!
Main issue with the Sega CD/32X is the amount of work RAM available to store all assets from the disc. The PS1 had more available to it as a whole than the SegaCD/32X do. With optimization it might be possible though.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Store the game on a CD and use a 32x flash cart to bridge everything. I didn't know there was a GBA port, so I copied the rom over to my GBA's everdrive. It runs nicely.
Alone in The Dark? Hexen? Star Wars Dark Forces?
@@_MasterLink_ They are already showing one level of the game running with just the 32X and Genesis. That combo has less overall RAM available than if they include the Sega CD in the mix.
Adding the Sega CD would eliminate the storage problem vs a cartridge.
It adds the Sega CDs extra PCM sound channels as well open the door to CD music.
The 32X+CD would improve video quality playback (over not having it at all or cropped Sega CD only clips).
@@lazarushernandez5827 You're not understanding how CD based systems work as compared to cartridges. The map data could be in ROM in a way that it doesn't need RAM, and can stream from ROM. You cannot do this with a CD based system, it needs to be put somewhere. The Sega CD has only 512K of main RAM (we are certainly NOT storing map assets in the 256K of video memory, that's not usable for this purpose in this situation), which is not much to load those assets to be readable since CD streaming is simply not happening with a 1x drive.
Feel free to argue this, but I am well aware with this architecture having wrote software for it.
Remember how much ROM space is required just for this demo. Now squeeze that in 512K, what you are proposing is not how this works.
If this truly was to be ported to the Sega CD/32X combo, maps will need to have loading stages, kind of life Half Life, where certain areas trigger a load to load in different sections. That's the only way it'll happen on the Sega CD with the limited available memory.
This video taught me that Lara liked the frozen wolf-infested caves of Nepal so much that she moved in.
Wow. Awesome! We need more 32x development :)
Thats great to see but I would like to see it running on the N64 as it was in the same era as the ps1
Sega 32x is a fifth generation console just like the PS1 and N64.
@@Dmar-ih7kr ehm no, the 32x is an attachment, not a console, it fully needs a genesis/megadrive attached to work, a 4th generation console.
@@GeomancerHT the public still calls it a fifth generation console no matter what it’s attached to, check the stats
It's quite impressive. Regarding all versions, I still like the Saturn the best. There's something about the colours that completely makes the difference to me
underneath aII that stuff it'S STILL A GENESlS HOW
32x had same processor as the Saturn
Tomb Raider is slowly becoming the new Doom 😂💯👍🏻
Would love to see the running on the Jaguar / Jag CD.
On the Atari Age forum, an openLara test on the Atari Jaguar
That GBA port is damn impressive, and this? even moreso! Nice coverage!
That 3do port runs more less like I remember the early 2000 windows mobile smartphone port. It was pretty impressive back then to see a full 3D game on a phone
Maybe the coder will do what capcom never did. Port AvP arcade to the 32x ?
Tomb Raider begun on 32X with CD Games
I would love to see outrun on the 32x!
We know the vdp was used in virtua racing for mega drive. Imagine if they released a 3D accelerator chip for 32x in a similar fashion. As redundant as it sounds back in 1994 not so much nowadays for homebrew.
The next challenge, will be running this on the Atari Jaguar CD.
Crazy to see this on what started out as a sprite munching machine.
They could have easily made this a tower of power game back in the day, just pull data from the sega CD for FMV and textures.
I wonder if it would be possible to make a RAM cart for the 32X (similar to the Saturn) and use the Sega CD to hold the data? This would bypass the Sega CD 1X limitation as well as cart size as RAM is cheaper than ROM and the data could be streamed from the CD to the RAM cart and run from there.
There were cd 32x games for those who had both the cd add on and the 32x .I assume the game can be ported in cd format and be streamed from the cd so it has all game data and fmv
Unfortunately there's an issue with the 32x's RAM size so thats unlikely. Maybe the music could be streamed though.
So, this version has no sound yet. I wonder what the music would be like? Maybe a mix of synthesis and sampled audio?
Looks like it runs on the 32X as well as it did on my DX4-100!
Nice it's Tony time thanks for sharing us a video about another port of Tomb Raider very interesting video
Someone needs to travel to the past and explain to SEGA how to use the 32X.
I'll go.
And better yet, someone needs to go back and tell Sega how to market the Saturn better, and to make it more competent and efficient with 3D graphics and alpha blending/transparency.
This is mindblowing 😮
I hope it's play able some day on the n64 but awsome video 😎🤘🏽
In addition, the demo uses only 1 cpu. the 32x has a dual cpu
This would work well as a 32X CD game
t. never developed for either systems
32X + SEGA CD for FMVs (and textures?)?! This could be cool AF
A true novelty would be if this could be made for Sega CD/32X. There were only five games that used both expansions, and they were all FMV.
They could make it a CD32X game, no worries about cart size then and you get the extra power from the sega cd which would give it just that little bit more of a bump in performance. I wouldn't expect saturn or ps1 levels of detail and framerate but it definitely wouldn't dip as low as it does now.
Where can I find some Sega 32x Programming Guides?
Thanks for sharing this with us 😄
My first thought when I saw the video about this was why not make it a CD32X game. Then you would have plenty of space for the game, be able to take advantage of the extra scaling and rotation hardware in the Sega CD. You could probably even still have the cutscenes included. After watching a few more videos I don't think the CD32X works like I thought it did. It apparently is pretty difficult to get data from the Sega CD to the Genesis/32 and that could be why the only CD32X game released were FMV games. But you never know, maybe one day some super skilled programmer will come along and find a way to use the CD32X to take full advantage of all the hardware.
fantastic job! once he's done optimising it, it would be nice to see resident evil on 32x too.
Lara is immortal
Very cool work that team does. 2MB for 1 3D level unfinished, menu, enemies the other clothes Lara has/cut off levels and other minor details, is pretty fair I'd say. As much as I can see in the video anyways besides what ir actually has included or how down scales rhey got it. Some 3D N64 games are what 4MB? Or so and people think oh thats small. I mean FMVs out that made games 300+MB on 700MB disks. People forget N64 they had 16MB or less space didn't they? To me irs impressive on lower sizes what they could fit in. Voice acting especially in Rare games besides older with the Intellvision addon and the limit of voices back then too.
Seen the GBA & 3DO videos. The PC FX, FM Towns, Pippin, Amiga CD32, Jaguar/Jaguar CD and Virtual Boy as remaining 32/64bir systems left I guess/think are left to assume they may do in the future?
I doubt it just a handful likely and more suitable or still clear documentation ones.
But 32X is impressive still. Sega CD would make sense because its a CD addon. I doubt much of the Turbo Grapx or others but because 32X and Sega CD can be combined I wouldn't be surprised if doing that to offer both to achieve it.
As someone woth no experience woth them but seeing games with Sega CD/32X combos on the game boxes in videos. I assume they use both qell enough to achieve things?
Never seen any other than Mega Drive boxes in retro stored never any addons/niche consoles because why would people sell them its ebay and such usually.
Never played the OG Tomb Raider games at all to understand perspective properly but respect the series and the later entries have played.
Wow Saturn looks good. Never knew how good Saturn was for specs to PS1. I knew it was powerful but with the handful of 3D third parties it is impressive and always unclear what games would have been better like on Saturn besides the few we can see on there due to dales/complexity and such.
Especially with more RAM and GPU/CPU differences can make sometimes with textures. PS3/360 as well ghr RAM differences in texture quality or other details they wanted in games.
Or carts to disks and Blu ray to DVDs of storage also limits and enhances.
But for level of 32bit as the 32X is it's impressive still to see what is possible on there from higher 32bit hardware down to its level especially as wasn't the 32X fillrd with some Saturn chips? But I assume the RAM/other aspects are obviously not as high as fhe Saturn or other platforms.
The Tapwave Zodiac and Ngage had Tomb Raider ports already, the Gizmondo I doubt it they need to if the Zodiac already showed it off rather well. Let alone documentation and still no good emulator for it anyway because it flipped and is so rare even if the elements were good of the device in some ways. PDA/Pocket PC and gaming handheld is pretty cool to me. Ngage as phone and gaming as well.
Any lower end who knows if they will bother like with Doom or any lower end devices.
Yeah CD roms on sega had no drm. What if they ported it for TOWER OF POWER CD 32X? Piles of space on a CDR and run on the 32XThe only trouble would have been SAVE GAMES. Unless you can use the cart slot for a rewritable cartridge like on Saturn i would think they would have to create an old scool password save system like in metroid/prince of persia.
The gba port is way more amazing ( don’t get me wrong the 32X version is also amazing), but the gba has a cpu clock of 17mhz and the 32X has 23mhz, not a lot more but that makes a difference in 3d games.
There are 32x CD games so that would be the best possible solution to the storage issue. If thats an option for this project.
Odd... I tried it on my steam deck, pressing start puts me in free cam mode, there's no menu like shown here... I wonder if it's a picodrive issue. EDIT: had to switch my core input to 6-button from 3-button, I feel dumb!
I can’t wait for the Atari Jaguar version to never come out.
This looks extremely impressive and is the most impressive game I've seen running at 32x.
However, I still don't think that more games like this would save the 32x, people completely forget that 3D games weigh a lot more than 2D games, the Nintendo 64 suffered a lot from space limitations with the 64 MB cartridge, like the 32x with 10 MB cartridges would they have any chance?, not to mention that it was a very expensive, clunky and difficult to market add-on.
The 32x never had a chance of success, we never saw its hardware potential at the time, but even if we had seen it it wouldn't have saved the 32x.
I think it should been a SEGA CD 32X Game
The 32x was by far and away one of the coolest system upgrades ever created. Too bad it never got that VR headset.
Running DOOM on every console invented is so 2023.
Running Tomb Raider on a pregnancy test is the new hotness.
Someone get them working on Atari Jaguar Version. Pretty Please!
Sega 32x CD solves the Storage problem
Can 32x run 3d graphics?
There was official 32x cd games, very few but….
OpenLara is always going to be deployed to original hardware through a flash cart, so file size might be one limitation of the original hardware that doesn't apply.
I asked the developer if the 32x is enough to run a Mario 64 port and he thinks so, that would be extremely bizzarre and fantastic to play on the 32x.
I'm tempted to start tinkering with the SDK, but maybe mario is too big for a newb, I don't know what other modern open sourced/decompiled games we have to port?
Cave Story was decompiled as shown by the CSE2 project. There is even already a PS1 and Genesis version that has been made, with the Genesis version still not at 1.0 but very good with cutbacks, mostly color and sprite limit related. Seeing as a SNES port is apparently impossible, and nobody’s going to try a Neo Geo port anytime soon, the 32X could be used to enhance the visuals and run the original Organya system through PWM. The SEGACD would also be a good pick due to the variety of remixed soundtracks available for CS.
There will be a consulE they don’t have to worry about the switch
I will only be impressed by a port to the Grundy NewBrain.
Hey Hard4Games, I have a gray (not green or blue) PlayStation Programmer Tool DTL-H1001 Debugging Station that I would like to know the value of. The only info I know about it is that these units were used for conventions. The reason they are the same color as the home version was for the public to believe it was the same one you could buy at the store. Would you be able to help me out? Thank you!
Hi! Unfortunately I'm not capable of valuations. There's a lot of variables involved and for that particular unit my knowledge is limited. 😬
@@hard4games can you point me in the direction of someone who can help by any chance?
I wonder if the genesis svp could have accomplished this
its weird that they didnt port it to the 3do considering it was basically on par with a ps1, i guess the install base was so small it wasent worth it
sorry but the 3do was not on par with ps1
it could have been a cd 32x game lol
what is it with tomb raider and running on impossible tech
like this just seems impossible
love it
Did you say “2MB”!?
Cool. 😎👍💯
at this point I'm just waiting for the SNES version...
I clearly jest.
or do I? :B
SuperFX port when?
Imagine a jaguar version
On the Atari Age forum, an openLara test on the Atari Jaguar
@@Hellgenio nice, link
the best is NGage version 😅
Would Tomb Raider on N64 be possible?
I imagine so! Just a matter of someone being willing to do it.
bro , sorry if i do this in this video, but can help me with get a Mewtwo PCNY Shyni? i really want one, if you can, and thanks for the video
Sill finding new games for these systems and no one has yet to find any SNES CD games that wasn't relseed on otter systems. The SNES CD came form an sotry I haerd about Bubsy 3D being portype SNES CD game ported to saturn then rushed to the palystaion still in beta.
This isn’t a found game. This was just made.
whaaaaattttttttttt?
Why people insist on talking about putting the whole game on cartridge when the Sega CD 32x combo is an option?
For the hell of it.
cd would be a good storage for the fmv and soundtrack maybe if the core of the game was stored on the cartridge and certain game data could be loaded from disc to flesh out the level in ram i dunno, im no boffin. i do love the idea of this though. what did they do to compress resi 2 so much on n64? dropped a lot of video but what else?. to be honest it is 2024 if it can run off a sdcard everdrive does it matter?
@@samaeldrakul4191 it had the fmv sequence encoded with a propietary codec, not the same quality as in the PSX of course.
When we getting the SNES port? It could run Starfox in 3D, so why not a janky version of Tomb Raider?
Could barely run Doom.
@@John-nb6epSame could be said for the 32X’s official Doom port. ;)
@@emmettturner9452 I don't think so. It was just heavily rushed. Now Quake or Duke nukem on the 32x would be much more interesting.
It would need the super fx co processor. The snes just doesn't have the horsepower by itself unlike the 32x. The superfx is on par with the SVP, and getting tomb rader to run on that would be a very big stretch...
@@BrendanRaymondKoroKoro I’ll just hack FX Fighter. ;)
If it were to come out on the 32x, the game would have to be downscaled and work like Tomb Raider The Prophecy.
Wasn't this game junky enough on PSX?
second
First
can we all agree that Tomb Raider running better on Gameboy Advance than the 3DO is a new level of pathetic for that joke of a console XD
I would agree, however the GBA has had more optimizations like closer Camera Angles to the in game character model.
What's funny about it? It's at least 8 years newer technology.