Autistic Adult Reacts to Autistic Children in ABA
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- Sorry for being so late this week, I am not good lol. Love y’all
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Related: autism, autism diagnosis, Paige layle, paigelayle, paigelayle tiktok, tiktok videos, autistic, autistiktok, autistok, autism spectrum disorder, Aspergers, Aspergers syndrome, autism in girls, dsm, autistic kid, autism mom, autism family, autism speaks, autism awareness, autism acceptance, ABA, ABA Therapy
You gotta love it how they want the kids to understand emotions and body language, but proceed to ignore the child’s body language telling them they aren’t happy
They're either indifferent to the suffering before them, think "normalizing" our behavior is worthy of the suffering, or find the money to be worth torturing a child into a compliant dog.
And I'm serious, this is torture, the touching, the clapping, the compliance demand under extreme stress. But oh no, that's just an autistic experience, our suffering isn't really worthy of consideration, our temporary facade of normality is all that matters. I wish I could give these "therapists" autism for a moment and let them experience the hellish sensory and social submission experience they've crafted.
It's saying everybody else's (as long as they are neurotypical) emotions are more important than yours. It's really messed up
Also, how are you supposed to understand emotions and body language when everything they're saying is so exaggerated and fake sounding. It's grating! Seems like it's a good way to learn to distrust what anyone is saying to you.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD and suspect I may be on the spectrum as well. I was surprised to learn that some autistics are actually super sensitive to some people's emotions. It's sometimes like there's just too much information I have to decode. I haven't even had this harmful "therapy," and I don't think the incongruity would make it any easier. Like, is this person upset, and they want me to know but we're both supposed to ignore it, or am I supposed to tune in and address it, or do they not want me to know at all? (Yeah, the hypervigilence from trauma does NOT help with this at all, and this "therapy" looks traumatizing, tbh.)
When I was in grade 1 I had a teacher literally tie me to my chair not my arms or anything but around my chest and across my legs because I was fidgeting and disrupting the other children when I brought up how inappropriate that was to my mom as an adult my mom just said to be fair the teacher was probably just frustrated with your disruptions and didn't know what else to do with you. that doesn't mean. it wasn't abusive Mom
@@caradanellemcclintock8178😢😢😢😢
I thought my son's ABA was different, but after listening to adults such as yourself I told them to remove "punishments," no longer refuse food or his comfort stuffed animal, go to him in his room instead of forcing him to the table, and not trying to use things like stimming as the focus and instead focus on things like self-care instead of "don't be autistic." My son LOVES verbal praise, so I told them I thought that alone would encourage him, but they said "that's not a reward, he needs something physical to give or take away." I said no, so they "tried" to make it work but after about a week said "we need to go back to the original plan, it seems like we're not doing anything with him." I pulled him from the therapy, and was very clear with his school that I did NOT want him having ABA in school and why. Honestly, my kid is exactly the same before starting and after ending ABA. He had a year off due to insurance changes, and he gained independent behaviours (like dressing himself, feeding himself, checking up after himself) in that time just by us telling him he needed to do it himself, letting him make mistakes and praising him once he did it. I frankly don't care if he sits still, "focuses," does things "properly" or is quiet. I don't care if he appears autistic or not. If someone doesn't like his stimming in public, too freaking bad. Telling him to stop is like telling someone to get out of their wheelchair and walk because you don't like seeing a wheelchair- your preferences are worth absolutely zero to me.
Im so happy u realised aba is bad
From an autistic perspective (me) i am able to do everything a neurotypical can do i still get it done but in a different way aba doesnt allow that they teach that doing it a different way it bad
You remind me a lot of Temple Grandin's mom as portrayed in in the 2010 movie Temple Grandin. Your son could spend all his time and energy trying to appear normal (with training), or he could let go some of the masking and achieve other things in his life. Some masking will still be helpful to function in society, but that shouldn't be the main goal of his education and upbringing. Thank you for expanding your goals for your son beyond ABA and NT standards.
@@madcow3417 thank you!
@@elliemw2351 thank you for responding! The "play properly" thing really bothered me for that exact reason- why is his type of play "bad"? What difference does it make if he'd rather sort his toy cars instead of driving them? Maybe he's making a junkyard, we don't know! But I thought his "out of the box" type of play was a cool thing and didn't like the idea of forcing him to do otherwise. I get that it's social, but I've seen unbelievable kindness from my friends' and family's children who get into his type of play with him, one even joins him in his stim if he's doing it! It's not him that's a problem, it's that the right kids will accept him as he is and join in and play with him however he's doing it! His younger male cousin got frustrated with him in a sandbox this summer because my son was just doing his thing and his cousin wanted to play with more structure, so his cousin got mad and yelled at him "if you're not going to listen to me, I'm not going to play with you!" (He can be like that, earlier that same day he quit a race because "if you won't let me cheat I'm not doing it!") Guess what? His youngest female cousin, that boy's little sister, came over quietly and sat next to my son and started playing in a similar way, and it was beautiful! She quietly talked to him, and he listened and they dug holes and built piles of sand! This made me feel great, and I'm sure he was delighted (he's non-verbal and just started learning how to use a speech program with a tablet so he's still a mystery). I like to give him positive autistic role models, like youtubers and writers, actors and business people, and tell him he can do whatever he wants with his life, that this won't hold him back and he can be successful in his passions! I don't know what he'll do or be, or what his adult life will look like, but it's his life, not mine, and he gets to decide for himself!
(Sorry this was long, I was having trouble sleeping!)
I wish you everything in life you want, sending love!!
@@person2194 This is the first thing that comes to my mind, which isn't exactly helpful: czcams.com/video/TIMrFpnfvyI/video.html
the way the ABA therapists talk is sooo so grating. I really really hated being infantilized as a kid, and i could feel my inner child screaming
My inner child is dueting you in that chorus
same. it was so hard to watch
When Paige said "red flag", I thought the red flag was that the therapist was using a baby voice when talking to a preschool-aged child.
Same same same
I had to quit the vid midway trough and left it alone for a year. God that baby sh*t is grating
I love how the "reward" for "correct" behaviour is unwanted physical contact and loud noises.
How do you know it’s unwanted?
@@alexanderjimenez1995 if the person is autistic, it's unwanted.
@rachelb4235 Autism is a spectrum. It's not a one size fits all thing. I personally don't like abrupt physical contact, but my son? Loves it! Tickles, scratches, squeezes, kisses/snuggles. All of it. It's actually super overstimulating for me, and I often have to take breaks. I've also seen plenty of autistic kids who love the squeezes and/or tickles as well. It's just dependent on the type of input you prefer!
Any therapy should be tailored to the person though.
@@EveryDayImJocelyn
Even if the children want to be touched the therapists should not be allowed to do all the touching.
All the touching results in loss of body autonomy increasing the probability of abuse.
@@autisticdan6151 that is interesting. Can you tell me where you found that information?
ABA says that a child shouldn't tell anyone when they're overwhelmed by a situation. That's like teaching a child not to say ouch when they get hurt
Or teaching a dog not to growl when they don’t like something. It all makes them feel Ike they aren’t supposed to communicate how they feel, so then they might just burst one day and bite, or throw a huge fit.
@@nataliewendt8927
Then tell me why ABA therapists punish children for saying no and stimming. Tell me why a child's body is moved and manipulated in situations where it isn't needed. Tell me why the needs of the child aren't taken into consideration during this "treatment". None of this helps an autistic child communicate, all it does is teach them that others are allowed to bully and abuse them.
No autistic adult supports this. Dog trainers are held to a higher standard than these "therapists". People who undergo this treatment are 70% more likely to get sexually assaulted than people who don't. All it teaches is masking, which is harmful.
The only people it helps are Autism Speaks, and parents who are too embarrassed, or lazy, or ignorant, to actually take their child to an effective therapy.
@@nataliewendt8927
All over official ABA organisations' advertisements we still see ABA abusing autistic children by being so ignorant and regardless of their autism and emotional well-being.
Human wellbeing is clearly not a priority in ABA Therapy, ABA goes by what's healthy for nonautistic people just assuming that's better for us. The reason many of us don't accept the perspectives of others is because their perspective hurts us, and you still press those harmful perspectives like going to a full size shopping centre on to us.
@@danielmoore4024
And on top of that, they tell parents using this treatment for their children not to give said children any way to reduce the stress. No noise canceling headphones, no sunglasses, nothing. I even heard of one therapist recommend a family take their kid into a candle shop! Luckily my mom was able to convince them that was a terrible idea, but holy fuck
@@lenekabry
That's an exception, not the rule. The fact that this isn't the typical example of ABA is the problem. It's especially bad when ABA is often the only "treatment" covered by insurance.
autistics: we fucking despise being touched unprovoked
aba therapists: no, you love it! and i will do it all the time!
autistics: seriously, stop
therapists: _Incorrect Response_
There are even times when I hate my husband brushing my shoulder or thigh. Sometimes I seek sensory stimulus but other times, I want to rip a person's hand away because it's horribly overstimulating.
That's how you make sexual predators happy. Wouldn't be surprised at all if some of these therapists take that even further, always happens in such environments.
@@thegracklepeck 100% relate
Autistic person here. I don't mind being touched, but some of these made we wonder what the hell the therapist was thinking. Don't move the kid's hands or arms to the "correct" spot, and definitely don't grab them from behind while they're doing something.
Even as someone who has not been diagnosed as autistic, this made my skin crawl. The touching is the absolute worst, and as a nanny, I would never do any of this. The “rewards” seem SO overstimulating, and I think even a neuro typical child would HATE this. Anyone who’s ever met children knows this kind of stuff would cause so many tantrums. This is so disturbing.
Terrifying do they just teach the therapists that tickling makes autism go away
Especially since Autistics HATE getting touched by strangers. As an Autistic adult, when I'm anxious or overloaded, the only person who is permitted to touch me is my fiance. Since she is also Autistic I am the only one who is allowed to touch her.
@@Genin99 kids and most people don't like being touched by strangers, it can feel violating to have someone forcefully touch you in any way, it's gotta be even worse with sensory issues and autism
@@marshmallow4646 It is worse if you're Autistic.
@@person2194 The fact that it's tickling specifically makes it so much worse for me. Have you ever seen even anyone being tickled and laughing while saying, "Stop, stop, stop!" to the point where they actually hit the person tickling them? Laughing is actually a panic response to the amount of sensory input. So even if it's an enjoyable sensation for a short time, it can quickly get so overwhelming that the person will react in a way they otherwise wouldn't in order to make the sensory overload stop.
I love the rewards that are actually torture for us. Touching, loud voices, being fake, and expecting compliance without an explanation. Their alone voices are setting off my flight or fight
I’m so glad that you included being fake, because wow it’s always borderline unsettling when people try to be fake like that with me. And I know they turn up the dramatics because these monsters think that we don’t have the ability to notice. They like to pretend we don’t have empathy, and I think that’s part of the reason they don’t feel any guilt or remorse literally toying with us or brainwashing us with shit like abas or electro shock therapy.
Like I spent my entire childhood learning how to read people’s emotions to tell if they were genuine, I can absolutely tell when they’re treating me like a teacup poodle, but it didn’t change the fact that I didn’t have a say in it, unfortunately.
@@zombinary3138 Isn't it ironic that ableist neurotypicals tell us we have no empathy when in reality they have no empathy for us? They think we're dogs and won't get upset when people treat us like animals. They claim we don't have empathy and social skills, when in reality they don't, because they don't treat every human being like a human being. Obviously, this isn't all neurotypicals but unfortunately, there are too many neurotypicals who are like this.
Gee, it’s almost like the people who do this shit don’t have even the most basic understanding of what autism is
I’m an adult diagnosed autistic I tried therapy without knowing what was wrong the left me mentally Ill cptsd and they are still trying to Infantilise me at 54 it has resulted in fight and flight and psychosis and suicide attempts UK autistics are 1 in 10 times committing suicide . They are treating us like dogs and if we don’t do it they give us cold face. Pretty sure I’m a labrat for adult ABA where they show 0 empathy because I’m just me and they refuse to care so I refuse to take their crap. They need jailed
You love it?
Holy shirt. I had never seen a video of ABA before, and this is worse than I thought it would be.
Also, I saw an article by an autistic professional dog trainer who argued that ABA is not dog training for people because certified dog trainers are not allowed to use their methods for anything that interferes with a dog's wellbeing. So for example, they can't teach a dog not to growl, because that's communication, and they give retrievers toys to pick up instead of teaching them not to pick up anything. This is very different from ABA, where the child's wellbeing is ignored. So basically, dogs are treated better than autistic children.
ABSOLUTELY!!! THIS!!!!!! maceys a german shepherd, there are breed traits that i choose to UTILIZE, not change- she will always have the innate urge to have a job to do, and that job is protect and defend. does she bark when she sees things outside? absolutely. but does she stop barking if i ask her to? absolutely. and i would even argue that it’s not because she’s obedient and knows she MUST listen to me, but that i’ve done a good enough job of showing HER that she can trust me, just as much as i trust her. she knows that when i tell her she’s good to stop barking, that i’ve decided there isn’t a threat, and she believes me.
dog training is such a team thing. it’s just as much me testing her to see if i can trust her, and me having to show and prove to her that she can trust me. there are even days where mace doesn’t wanna work or do tasks, and yknow what that’s fine! she’s a dog, not a machine. and even on service dog work days, she’s ALWAYS. given time to be just a dog. and she knows the difference. and she THRIVES w doing tasks for me. that’s why i got a GSD.
obvs i could talk forever lol but yeah, dog training is much, much more adaptive and cooperative and safe and healthier than ABA. in my autistic service dog handler opinion.
@@realpaigelayle I totally agree makes sense, I see dogs in my neighborhood that have owner's who say go potty over and over in a mean tone of voice about 200 times a day and let their dogs out almost every time I go outside and it's easy for all the neighbors to hear and the dogs haven't learned anything from their owners, also my other neighbor has a sheltie who told me that she got her from a breeder who had the shelties voice box REMOVED!! or "debarked" what they call it. So she wouldn't bark and sounds like laringgitis in the dog, that also sounds like what ABA therapy is for autistic children just like forcing them to act normal so neurotypical people don't have to put up with autistic people being autistic and not caring about the autistic person's well being, it sounds the same with the voice box removed in the poor dog to stop barking, this was the first time I heard about this. People shouldn't have dogs if they can't put up with their barking, that means the owner doesn't care about the well being of the dog and their ability to communicate with their owners through barking.
My brother's a dog trainer, this sounds about right.
@@DavidSmith-vz9uu the idea of forcefully and permanently silencing a dog just so their owner’s life can be slightly easier is disgusting to me, especially considering how much that dog will likely love and trust their owner unconditionally no matter how loud or annoying the human might be. How hard that dog will work to understand their owner’s verbal commands… it’s disgusting.
I wasn't aware of ABA use in autistic 'treatment' when I was really getting into dog training, so when I first heard that ABA was abusive, I was confused. I didn't understand how that could be because I certainly didn't see the use of ABA as abusive with dogs.
And then I learned that yeah... dog trainers, at least ones that follow LIMA (Least Invasive, Minimally Aversive) which basically all modern trainers do, follow ethics codes that are way more strict than what's used with human ABA. The wellbeing of the dog is paramount, and before doing any "training", the base needs of the dog need to be met as well as they can be. That includes giving them the ability to express their natural drives as much as possible, ensuring their communication is listened to as best we can, and that they have the ability to opt out without coercion (as much as possible. Sometimes dogs just gotta go to the vet, for example, but we do try and make it as consent-based as possible).
Around 16 mins ‘the children will learn to enjoy it’.
This is literally grooming in action. It’s disgusting, inhumane and makes my skin crawl. I’m an autistic mother of autistic children and this horrifies me.
Agreed, this is exactly how predators normalize sexual abuse to children and I was very alarmed when I heard that comment in the video.
Since the final taking of your herbs, my son has been speaking well and responding to his name Thank you Dr Oyalo for saving my son with your herbs. I’m so happy to share this good news
And it’s literally what villains in movies or shows say, which is meant to be obviously bad, like have they not heard that line in ANY media before?
Those people lack ANY awareness whatsoever. They should NEVER be near kids
Wow. I'm autistic and sometimes have trouble with facial expressions. But dude, you made like 17 different disgusted expressions in this video, and I felt all of them down to my very core.
18:02 is the best!! Yeah I think she does acting and I can see why.
I watch many other autistic CZcamsrs but I identify with Paige the most(I'm 43YO male) just the mannerisms, expressions like you said etc
Since the final taking of your herbs, my son has been speaking well and responding to his name Thank you Dr Oyalo for saving my son with your herbs. I’m so happy to share this good news
I am selective mute and autistic. In my science class last year, we always had to do entry tasks. The teacher would then make us share with the table group. I would always point to my answer rather than read it aloud. In this class, we changed seating arrangements more often than most classes, (I always hated it when we would change seats, when I was younger I used to have meltdowns when we changed seats.). One time, my teacher put me with this one group that had this one girl in it. When we were all seated and had finished our entry tasks, the teacher then had us share them. I was seated next to that one girl. She reacted normally when all of the others showed their entry tasks. When I showed mine and pointed at it, this girl, in a voice similar to that you would used with an infant, nodded in an exaggerated fashion and said great job. She just said ok when all of the others showed theirs, why did I do a great job? Also why did she have to say it like that? She continued to do that every time we would show our entry tasks. For once, I was actually happy when we moved seats. Why do so many people view us as toddlers?
Probably because almost all the resources available for NTs to learn focuses on children
Should've just rolled your eyes at her. It's not part of either of those things as far as I'm aware, and it sends a clear, deserved message of "Fuck off". One which clearly shows you have far more to communicate than a toddler would, even if you have difficulties showing it.
Sounds like it's all in your head
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks Right, because you can totally see and hear what's inside somebody else's head without even knowing who's the person behind a comment on CZcams (s/). Get real, you're not Psycho Mantis (from Metal Gear Solid).
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks sounds like you should stfu
I spent my sophomore year of high school in ABA and it took me no time at all to sense what was going on. From the moment I stepped through those doors, I ceased to be a person. I was an object, a pet to train. These people weren't teaching me "life skills", they were teaching me to mask my neurodivergency for no reason. I told my parents this over and over and they refused to believe me. When I was finally taken out of ABA, it wasn't because I was uncomfortable and hated it - the people just decided that it would be useless with the attitude I'd developed. I was sixteen years old, and yet somehow I didn't know what I was talking about or the proper way I and my peers should be treated.
That’s so messed up and very sad. I’m sorry you were subjected to that abuse 😢
One thing you learn in ABA is that you don't matter. Your parent's wallet matters. What society wants out of you matters, and that is to stop being a complicated little shit.
Jfc, your parents and those other people sound horrible! I hope you've been able to get away from shitty folx like that and found better people in your life.
How long ago were you a sophomore?
@@amyowen486probably a year, seeing how it's called a sophomore year.
I inadvertently got "trained" to do ABA when I was hired to work with Autistic children... could not even begin to tell you how badly I hated it. Intuitively I realized that trying to train behaviors out of children (some of whom are so young their pre-frontal cortex isn't even onlne yet in addition to the sensory loads of Autism) was literally just trying to make them do things in ways adults wanted them to for the adult's convenience. Like sleep training (vomit vomit vomit). Makes no sense. A few sessions in I just gave up and started taking the kids for loooooong walks to explore their neighborhoods and focus on the things THEY found interest in. My supervisor hated me, but the parents loved me - because what those kids actually needed, what EVERY child actually needs, is to be seen and loved and honored. So my clients ended being happier, more settled, and responsive because they had developed a secure attachment.
meeting a living being where they are at and meeting their needs in their way is for sure going to creat a happier being,wether it's a child or a zoo animal or a pet. love it.
Hey, I just wanted to let you know you dropped your crown 👑
THIS!!!
i think you’re the only good aba therapist out there 👑👑 (or former aba therapist, either way, my point still stands)
This. I got trained to do ABA unfortunately. I usually just play with my clients except for when the case supervisor shows up... It's very frustrating! I treat my clients like they are my kids, not like dogs needing training! I luckily only have two more weeks left in this terrible role, then I'll be done. ABA does not enable or instill learning. It's literally just Conditioning! Conditioning isn't learning! I do not touch my clients at all! These "skills" aren't skills at all by the way.
Calling ABA a “therapy” is sickening. It’s obedience training, pure and simple. We. Are. Not. Dogs. Thanks Paige for this.
It's honestly kind of disrespectful to those that practice actual therapy (You know, the one in which you actually take into account how the patient feels)
It's neurological conversion þerapy.
The only people against ABA are those that don't understand the science
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks Why does conventional therapy exist if ABA is so great and 'scientific'? And why does the child actually show some pretty fast progress from saying nothing to attempting to speak with the REAL therapist, while they don't even understand what crackers are and just go lie down on the floor, then attempt to escape TWICE after being subjected to ABA therapy? Simple, because it doesn't work. Even at the most basic result, which isn't even getting an emotionally stable child that doesn't have a meltdown every five minutes, it's getting results. A child that can look at something, identify what it is, know whether they should pick it up, and do so accordingly. This video shows MANY examples in which children subjected to ABA fail completely to do so even when some Autistic children WITHOUT help could do so.
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks Sara Rocha understands a lot about science and she already proved how wrong ABA therapy is. The fact that people like you take a long time just to find her page says a lot.
I am autistic and so is my best friends younger brother. For years during his childhood we'd ruffle his hair as a form of affection and he wouldn't complain (often seem amused or happy). A year or so ago, I ruffled his hair and he said "hm don't" and then seemed to immediately feel guilty for telling me off. It took me pressing a little more before he admitted he disliked when we did that. We don't do it anymore. It is deeply ingrained in a lot of children (autistic or not) that older people and adults will touch them as they please. This shouldn't be the case. No child should feel the need to pretend not to mind contact. This is an example that occurred in a safe and educated space, where his needs are prioritized and he is thriving. That is how common this is.
Autistic here too. When i was younger old ladies my mum knew at church would often just… _grab me_ and do the shoulder rub thing or just fucking *hold me* like that and i hated it. But oh no no i cant complain because that’s rude and uncalled for. Like. Just. Stop. Touching. me. Aah. And this was long before i was diagnosed.
In media, especially horror, physical touch that seems ‘harmless’ but is obviously unwanted is like a #1 thing that makes a character threatening to me. I just hate it. It works well to establish power dynamics, and irl that’s often representative of a younger and/or ND person having less power in a situation yk?
Often it’s not that big of a deal, but when it’s repeated and reinforced it is compounded, and can lead to ND people in dangerous situations.
Since the final taking of your herbs, my son has been speaking well and responding to his name Thank you Dr Oyalo for saving my son with your herbs. I’m so happy to share this good news
There is a herbal recommendations I got about dr Oyalo and his herbal remedy which work perfectly on my sons improvements from nonverbal to verbal and his and social skill till now.
@@AnEmu404 I know this was like- ten months ago but people at my church and my PARENTS do the same! When I was a bit younger I had the confidence to tell my mom and dad that i didnt like being hugged and touched all the time. You know what they said/did? My mom said that
"humans are made to be touched and have connections. You need to learn how to make connections"
And it ended up with me being touched MORE. Now they dont do it as much but every time my dad sees me he INSISTS that i hug him. EUgh its horrible. Just to say that i relate and its 100% not acceptable.
As a person with auditory/spacial sensitivities, the constant shouting and touching is absolutely horrendous, and I'd imagine torturous for these poor children. I have no idea why all the loud noises and unannounced movements are supposed to help, but I really appreciate you reacting to this because it validates my discomfort with this type of "obedience and discipline" training. Thank you for your insightful commentary, Paige! ❤
FORREAL! if someone talked to me like that and touched me in the way that woman is touching the child i would have a complete meltdown
I truly hated that as a kid too.
I am sensory avoidant and the screaming so loud it makes the speaker blast made me cry because I became so overwhelmed neurologically. Now I’m crying emotionally because this is pure torture
The point is to make the children as uncomfortable as possible and to hit all of their worst sensitivities to "desensitize" them to these stimuli in everyday life. But it doesn't fucking work that way, and it's only making them miserable...
I'm not autistic, and honestly this is the first time I have Watch a video of this Applied behavior analysis or whatever this crap is called. But as a teacher, this is absolutely horrendous. And as a blind person, I get talked down to and shouted at like this on a regular basis. Even that so-called praising is obnoxious. The energy behind all of that exaggerated praise is completely fake. I don't even praise my own guide dog (Or any dog)like this. Oh and touching/grabbing without consent? That used to cause me to go into severe panic mode as a kid. I've managed it better as an adult, but I never failed to be puzzled as to why people think it is OK to do this to disabled humans.Absolutely disgusting.
I am so glad you are such a strong advocate for your son. Growing up, I never had a solid advocate, especially once I started school. And I see so many kids who are brilliant but often misunderstood and left to flounder for themselves.
"We develop relationships with the children". No, you don't. You force the children to accept that they have to tolerate your invasive behaviour regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them.
There is a herbal recommendations I got about dr Oyalo and his herbal remedy which work perfectly on my sons improvements from nonverbal to verbal and his and social skill till now.
"if you teach children that they are not in charge of themselves, other people will be in charge of your children" 100%
There is a herbal recommendations I got about dr Oyalo and his herbal remedy which work perfectly on my sons improvements from nonverbal to verbal and his and social skill till now.
Lol, when I was around five years old it was suspected I was autistic, and there were many tests that I was put through by a therapist. Apparently also with those flash cards where you had to recognize an emotion. Eventually it was ruled that I was not autistic, because I had empathy (wow), because I could recognize people's facial expressions on the flash cards. Years later I got diagnosed anyways, turns out being autistic doesn't immediately make you incapable of empathy.....
I’m autistic and the ‘‘doesn’t have empathy’’ thing is so frustrating. I do have empathy, I just can’t show it in the way you expect me to. I can’t give you a hug or kind words or a shoulder to cry on but I can give you tissue if you’re crying, an animal to comfort you (who doesn’t like animals while upset) or one of my nice books to read to take your mind off things. Empathy, but empathy in ways you probably won’t expect
NTs try to be empathetic challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
I hated those tests. Hated them! What is with these "therapists"?
As far as I know, I was never tested as a child but I have too much empathy. I don't know how to comfort people well but I can feel emotions...their emotions. Even if someone is lying and saying they're fine, I can still feel their true emotions. It absolutely exhausts me! I don't get the whole "we don't have empathy".
Thank god for genetic testing
34:59 - PLEASE, PLEASE, DO NOT, *DO NOT* PHYSICALLY RESTRAIN AUTISTIC CHILDREN. WHY IS THIS STILL NORMALIZED NOWADAYS? IT'S PAINFUL, TRAUMATIZING, AND CAN CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY, EVEN DEATH. WHY DO PEOPLE STILL DO THIS, IT FRUSTRATES SO MUCH AND IT BREAKS MY HEART *SO MUCH* TO SEE IT.
Agreed! I'm so thankful the ABA company I have been working for DOES NOT restrain, EVER. I think my company is probably the best after watching this video, we are nothing like this! None of these nonsense commands, no restraints, no invasive prompts. Just communication and life skills. I'm shocked by some of these videos.
@@gracehobbs430
Are you actually ABA though or are you just under ABA for insurance?
Even though ABA has changed to only positive reinforcement and stopped aversives, it still has a harmful framework with the underlying message that devalues us.
If actual ABA wants to help practitioners are going to have to start sharing the alternatives to ABA so parents can choose the most suitable path for their children.
While ABA is based on Operant Conditioning, there's an alternative method based on "Attachment and Containment" that has being extremely successful and takes everything into consideration.
There's another evidence based method called SCERTS, the reason they founded this method is because too many resigned practitioners noticed the harm ABA causes and that ABA is not about health outcomes, SCERTS is based on health outcomes as well as helping.
Thank you for warning me about this. I could have been sent into some sort of trauma shock if I saw this unprovoked. I love touchiness but only when I want it from people I’ll accept it from.
I was a teaching assistant who 'specialised' in working with children with 'behavioural difficulties'. I am AuDHD. I was sickened by how we were taught to treat children who were obviously struggling. I was expected to physically restrain children who were in obvious distress. The end result was to shut them up and stop them 'acting out', not to help them in any way or to make any effort to understand or accommodate their needs and to give them support. I worked with children who were autistic, had ADHD or were living in environments that were absolutely traumatising (I had a 6 year old threaten to r*pe me (the details were far more explicit) and cut me up...what was he seeing at home?). All the school did was to punish those children, they were given no support whatsoever. That's why I decided I could NEVER work in the education system again
Still happens. Ive lived in a homeless hostel for the last year. Its intensely stressful. Sometimes i self harm. Thats fine. Its my body. One time i did and the staff tried to get me an ambulance. I refused to go with them, because i just needed to be alone. So they called the police, who forced their way into my room, and threatened to lock me in a cell if i didnt go and took issue with my tone of voice, which i cant control when im stressed. I was held in hospital until a doctor came, who agreed that i was right, and i just needed to be alone. I couldve told them that. It harmed me. Every time my freedom is taken away, it harms me. I am scared to show how awful i feel because i will be caged.
That woman’s squealing made me physically convulse against my will, and I was only listening on low volume. I shudder to think of the sensory hell that kid was experiencing. The music therapist felt like a sigh of relief, great choice to add that to the end!
Right! I was literally getting nauseous and visibly angry every time they did this
I am now in pain because of her
I'm not autistic as far as I'm aware, but I felt the same way. I wonder if it's because, as a child, I could always sense when adults were talking down to me, and I HATED it.
They are also told to speak in voices louder than normal so it must have been extra hell.
i'm so glad i at least went into aba old enough to not be talked down to that bad bc the tone of voice they use makes me want to punch them so bad
Totally agree with you, even as a non autistic child being shaken and tickled by a teacher or counselor is like something you would hear about as a warning sign for child predators grooming children.
Can we just talk about how fucking awful tickling is. Especially when you tell them to stop but they continue because "yOu'RE laUGhinG". Like it's a physiological reaction, not consent.
I was surprised how long it took me to find this comment. So many of these "therapists" are implicitely teaching these children that their consent doesn't matter and isn't required. Now I'm worried about children in ABA being sexually abused on top of the standard abuse.
Sexual predators have a type: children with low self-esteem. Autistics fall into that category. Loner+low self-esteem+autism=easy prey. A child who is confident and has friends has less chance of getting abused.
@@sharonjensen3016 Actually, autistic people can be confident and have their friends too. I don't see your point there.
@@yurigagarin9765
Your worries are well placed, as children who undergo this treatment are 70% more likely to experience sexual assault later in their lives
Funny how tickling is considered by many autistic people (including myself) to be an actual form of torture, yet it's a "reward" for "correct behavior" by the "therapists".
Tickling actually was used as torture back in the day for Chinese royalty. It was a form of punishment that was non-life-threatening and did not leave marks on the body.
Here lil me was teaching myself to become cold and separate from the moment and imposing mental distraction so I could stop laughing and they would quit cus nothing else worked to get it to stop. Hearing the recommendations from torture experts on how to resist torture... It's disturbingly identical to what I came up with.
@benjaminmerritt177 OMG same!!! beautifully written 🥹🤌🏼
There is a herbal recommendations I got about dr Oyalo and his herbal remedy which work perfectly on my sons improvements from nonverbal to verbal and his and social skill till now.
I say this not to contradict you, but as a lead in to agreeing with you. As a kid I loved being tickled and I'm sure I wasn't the only autistic kid for whom that's true.
But the people who came up with the ABA variant for Autism know so little about autism that they don't realise that just because it probably worked for the first kid they tried it on, that doesn't mean it works for all autistic kids.
It's another case of NTs not realising: If you've met one autist, you've met _one_ autist.
I used to get dirty looks from old ladies for letting my son hang off the side of the shopping cart & drag his hand on the floor. My thought was "if he's happy and has a dirty hand so what! At least he's not screaming and upset because he's in a store!" I also would take him in, go directly to the book section and let him choose a book to read. He could be happy reading (hyper focused ) in the cart and I could get shopping done. He's always been tall for his age, so that often got looks too. You as a parent have to learn to get thick skin and not care what society thinks of you, & rather do what your child needs from you in situations like that.
I think it's different because it's dirty and he could get ill
It's always the old ladies that judge the most
@@claviculesclaclavicules6161 so long as he washes his hands he will be okay. Mom here sounds like a good one so I’m sure she was aware and had him wash before eating, etc
@@squidhands6941 Yh, as long as he washes his hands.
@@claviculesclaclavicules6161 actually, getting a little dirty is healthy and extreme hygiene is linked to allergies. just saying.
I wasn’t diagnosed with autism as a child and have never had ABA but received support in school for my other disability. I have vivid memories of the touching, tickling and high pitched squeals from my support worker when I did something correctly. It was horrible but I had no idea how to make it stop so I put up with it.
I remember at the age of six having the self awareness to know what support I needed and what I didn’t need but every time I tried to advocate for myself I was told by my parents and teachers that I was being ungrateful and that others knew what was best for me.
My self autonomy and self advocacy was denied so I learned that my thoughts and feelings and needs did not matter. This is what ABA (and social conditioning) teaches and in my opinion, why it is so damaging.
And why would you tickle a kid who's not yours and does not like it
Also, as someone who wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, if a student is "good" and gets good grades you're usually allowed to choose social accomodations that likely wouldn't be approved for a kid they're trying to coerce into submission. Like, cause I got good grades no one cared that I would sit in a corner and read and have no friends. They wouldn't find it "weird" when I'd design machines as a lil kid and eagerly explain what it did.
That is truely heartbreaking, involuntary touch feels terrible, its exceptionally horrible when you feel loosing control over the situation and being trapped. I used to start crying being tickled, i did not remember it until my last boyfriend did that to me and did not stop when i asked him too. I was raped(not by him), i say this to tell people: it feels similar, you loose control and another person proceed as they wish. ABA is abusive there is no question, except: why is it not banned yet?
I am deeply sorry your autonomy was denied when you were a child. I am currently going through the process of becoming a special education teacher and I deeply believe that children should have just as much, if not more say than their parents when it comes to defining their needs. Self advocacy is so important for life as a disabled individual and always a skill that should be encouraged in my book, your comment really reinforces my belief in that. Thank you for sharing your experiences
@@thelostremainunfound yes absolutely this!! I believe that the adults in my life did what they thought was best for me but it never occurred to them that I knew best.
Disabled and neuroduverse kids grow up to disabled and neurodiverse adults so even if we can't process or communicate the situation as children we can do as adults and that for me is where the pain kicks in.
The amount of trauma I have as an autistic adult WITHOUT having gone through ABA, I can’t even fathom how much worse it could have been if I had been diagnosed and gone through it as a child.
Yeah it's why I tell people to be grateful they weren't diagnosed as a child it's a hassle now but they are allowed to abuse you as a child
@@june-cz1cw Hey, I was diagnosed as a child. What's wrong with that?
@@filipeflower what's wrong with that is that you can't consent as a child
@@june-cz1cw Doesn't make it any less true.
@filipeflower Being diagnosed as a child isn't the issue. They're saying that IF they had been diagnosed as a child, then subjected to that kind of torture (meaning ABA therapy as represented in this video), their life would be that much more difficult. I am an adult who only recently learned I was autistic. While I've been working with kids with autism for over a decade as a nanny. I often cringe when I have to take kids to any kind of therapy because I don't agree with many of their methods. And I've had parents point out that their kids are more successful working with me than their therapists. Why? Because I do things in less conventional ways to get through to them because I get what they're going through. I get how annoying these therapists are. They annoy me when I'm not even the "patient". If I had to go through those therapies as a kid I would be a far worse mess now than I already am. Getting the diagnosis as a child isn't necessarily the issue. It's the fact that early diagnosis often leads to early intervention with these therapies that are more torturous than beneficial. If having an early diagnosis put you in more difficult situations as a child, I'm so sorry. If it did not put you in such situations, great! But the person who said that was just saying they're glad to have avoided the possibility altogether.
ABA therapists: the kids love it!
Also ABA therapists: ending the task is a great reinforcer!
One thing I absolutely can’t stand are these over exaggerated reactions by the ABA therapists. I am a 21 year old autistic man and whenever I do anything people congratulate me like and clap and say “yay” like I’m a child and I don’t know how to do anything. I don’t want that treatment, I just want to fit in and be treated like everyone else
Have you seen "Legally Blonde"? There is this scene where Elle says..."what? Like it's hard?" When asked how she got into Harvard. If someone is talking down to you, ask them..."what? Like it's hard?" And walk away.
I am so pissed off on your behalf...
I really hope you tell people that when it happens! Some ppl like verbal praise and social attention but for some it can be a NEGATIVE PUNISHER. for example, I have mild ASD, ADHD, Anxiety disorder and a couple other fun neurodivergent diagnoses and social attention, including loud, public social praise is my nightmare fuel!! So while it’s annoying and (rightfully) condescending for you, I can get really bad panic Attacks 🤦🏽♀️. Oh and My big brother is 38, has ASD and a severe learning disability but we still talk to him like a grown ass man (even tho he is more on the level of early preteen). Even when we were little and I was the one taking care of him, I always made sure he felt like he was the big brother and the one in charge, “if he said jump, I’d ask how high” type stuff. I really hate when ppl think that ASD=Stupid 😡
Fr I am an Autistic 28 year old single parent of two kids. I've been at this parenting thing for a while now and I've been alone from the start. But still, some people in my life (some of whom are YOUNGER THAN ME) will praise me for doing very basic parenting skills.
@@jackriver8385 now danng... not to be rude but... THAT has no cap gotta be pretty stressful... wel pfft I mean obviously life is stressful but its like.. thats kinda inspiring tbh
That's how my dog likes to be spoken to
My mom worked with autistic adults before I was born and used ABA on me. It was mostly “positive” reinforcement. I learned that when I do something right, I’ll be rewarded. That’s not how the real world works. When I got to middle school, good things I did were ignored and bad things were punished. It felt like nothing I did was right and the best I could do was to be ignored, so my goal was to minimize my existence as much as possible. I still struggle with not wanting to have been born. I also looked solely externally for whether I did anything right. I didn’t start thinking about what I wanted until college. COLLEGE.
Aww I'm so sorry you've been through this :c Please take care, I'm very proud of you for everything and I hope you'll feel better soon 🥺💗
Lol such a good point! I struggled a lot with the truth and right and wrong because adults would often tell me how I should act, or how life works, and then the real world would be completely not like that. I would get frusterated that I couldn't just follow the same rules I was taught in every situation. Also didn't help that I had pretty abusive socially inept parents so I kept trying to mimic them or do what they said only to have ppl not actually like those behaviors. Because the real world wasn't like that!
That wasn't ABA's fault. That's on you. And yeah, a kid who is not motivated to work or do anything needs some kind of motivation. You are delusional if you think kids should just want to learn and do better. The ones that do probably only do it under coercion and the threat of punishment if they don't do well. Positive reinforcement is the key to helping society.
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks
Bribing children is not the key to society, it's the key to selfishness.
Since most parents bribe their kids to behave in a given way the children grow more and more selfish, which should explain why each generation is more selfish than its previous generation.
The more people are rewarded for doing something, the more likely they will lose interest in whatever they do to get the reward. It's seen in schools (kids lose interest in learning the more they're praised and rewarded grades), in work environments (pay rises and promotions reduce the quality of the employee's performance), it's seen in homes (a child is rewarded for being generous and becomes selfish), it's across all age groups, across all cultures.
Positive reinforcement destroys intrinsic motivation.
The whole behaviourist framework is a control system that leads to an evaporation of motivation, commitment, and quality of performance.
All positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, extinction, and punishment are all control mechanisms violating their right to autonomy which is not accepted by the science community as it is against the bioethics code.
Serious thinkers see no value in behaviourism.
@Daniel Moore lol. You seriously don't understand. I can't even start with how wrong you are, let's just start with where you found that information about pay reducing work quality and the such. Where'd you get that information?
I already love the dog training metaphor bc it shows that even literal dog training is more humane than most ABA (and only slightly worse than the rest).
Aba is literally equivalent to negative positive reinforcement dog training, aka shock collar, prong collar, choke chain training. We are going to negatively affect you until you do what we say.
My son's therapist when I first met her said to me that "I wanted to be a dog trainer, this is pretty much the same thing." At the time I didn't think much of it, but later when I started listen to autistic adults I realized how horrible that was, and pulled him from therapy.
@@LizRealGirlBeauty holy crap that’s a real mask off moment
@@LizRealGirlBeauty
An actual dog trainer claims ABA is not like dog training, because he would never treat a dog the way ABA treats children.
@@danielmoore4024 WOOF, that’s bad
Them "rewarding" the boy with tickling and him completely not having it, literally turning his body away and dissociating.
And the "reward" for that poor exhausted girl rubbing her eyes being chaotically throwing the toys on the floor while yelling so loud you blow out the mic, like that was overwhelming THROUGH A SCREEN I cant imagine what it was like right next to her ear.
That was SO UPSETTING
In NO scenario am I gonna feel relief or happiness if someone just SHOVES away what I did! If I wanted it gone or not! And that screaming is awful! It’s just like a horror game
I thought ABA was all about teaching autistic people how to do basic life skills like cooking, cleaning, and motor skills.
I had no clue it was basically a sneaky way to abuse an innocent human being.
that's what I thought before I found stuff out too
Trust me, they make it seem that way for the therapists too. I was *excited* to be autistic and be an aba therapist but everything they told me i needed to do I disagreed with. I let my kids do whatever they wanted and *i* was the bad therapist :^)
@@Raichu420 oooh scandalous/tawdry/juicy/rumour idk kidna immature yeah ikr no cao gonna admit but... wait hol up what? - 3:38 * wait wth this looks like osme sort of cheesy or just acjward demonstration video from the 90s or 2000s/00s idk why how to describe it but the just... casually with the qaulity even if its a dvd and narrated over with a narratir voice narrating whats happening and the weird ackward imho... short clips of the action instead of the uneditited video XD think of like a specifically mid late 90s or early 00s idk why fwiw but kirby vacuum video guide no cap...* wait wtf Touching a child/you hsouldnt ever touch a childs body- manupulate them" oh wth is this it sounds like some reaction to a ytp lmfao no cap idk why ig I just watch too much ytp and nonsense or just even any kind of like reaction to stuff I like or find humorous lols idk why ykwis
@@The_Keekazoid
Not all therapies that call themselves ABA are actually ABA, they just call themselves that for insurance.
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is not ABA.
Speech Therapy is not ABA.
Occupational Therapy is not ABA.
You can discern whether a therapy is ABA or not by seeing if the approach goes by the following assumptions;
• All behaviours are learned from experience.
• Only observable and measurable behaviours are to be studied.
• Genes have no influence on human behaviour.
• Non-human animals are valid test subjects as they follow the same learning principles as humans.
ABA is based on what's called Operant Conditioning with the pattern "A > B > C"
A = Antecedent
B = Behaviour
C = Consequence
@@The_Keekazoid
You may be able to understand this.
ABA is all about changing behaviour.
Other therapies are not ABA.
Everytime I heard “DO THIS” I actually felt sick to my stomach and wanted to get out of the scenario. This is sickening thank you for making awareness for this.
Ah, when the girl in the grocery store lay down on the ground, it just broke my heart. I didn't read it as a need for sleep (which it could have been!), I read it as a behavior I used to do when I was overstimulated. I used to lie on the floor much like that because it felt less overwhelming to be down there. If that were me, I would have been thinking "just let me lie here for a moment on the cool floor and block everything out. just give me a minute and then I'll try again."
@@labellavitakurz
The Floortime model is not ABA, most ABA workers despise it.
ABA steals bits and pieces of anti-aba methodology because they know ABA is not the good therapy they like to preach themselves as.
My biggest issue is ABA methodology is not based on health outcomes.
yes, this isn’t because she is tired. Paige doesn’t realize that all autistic people are not like her. Overstimulation is so much more different that being tired. I wish someone would call her out on this.
@@coco_b
If you did to a nonautistic child what you've just said you do to clients it would be defined as abuse and violation of human rights.
Which means you use abuse and violation of human rights as a method to modify behaviour which makes your clinic abusive.
It doesn't matter how you twist words, abuse is abuse no matter what the reason.
ABA methodology is physically and mentally harmful according to 21st century science.
We know that when a person consumes alcohol they are causing liver damage, but the individuals consuming alcohol seem so happy about it.
Something making someone happy does not mean it's healthy. On things like lung cancer from smoking, the cancer doesn't result after the first smoke does it? It takes smoking repetitively to develop blood clots and lung cancer.
It's the same with ABA, things may look good now just like it looks good when you see a 22 year old drinking alcohol feeling happy at a party, it takes quite a period of time for illnesses and cancers to develop doesn't it?
Putting children in anxiety triggering the fight or flight response then telling parents they have to go through with it, doing so releases adrenaline from the adrenal gland. Adrenaline damages blood vessels, increases blood pressure, increases heart rate which all greatly contributes to the development of heart diseases, just like tobacco greatly contributes to lung cancer and alcohol to liver damage.
As science has progressed ABA has remained in the early 20th century, it's being proven so many human behaviours are biological responses to what's happening on the inside, how a person is responding to their thoughts and not the environment.
The longer ABA continues refusing to come up to date with the rest of science, they're just going to continue living as their own culture. As long as they remain regardless of everything happening beneath the surface they will remain unethical, harmful and out of date.
Each time ABA overstimulates a person tension develops in the muscles. Sustaining tension in muscles causes chronic pain, then when they teach them to keep overstimulating themselves they take the risk of developing chronic pain disorders.
Not good!
The nervous system is directly connected to the brain through the spinal cord, scientists who are actually up to date claim there's approximately 1,000,000,000 neurons in the nervous system that they're describing it as a second brain and is the size of a cat or dog's brain. As ABA practices damage the immune system the children become more susceptible to sicknesses and diseases, especially associated with age.
Again, not good!
Due to variation in the hippocampus autistic people are more vulnerable to depression, the ignorance technique is both damaging to child development and causes depression and a reduction of self-worth. When people are in depression there is a reduction to metabolism resulting in food being turned into fat instead of energy which is why depressed people snack more (because the food did not turn into energy) and increases fat storage. The body will feed off of sugary cells before calories while increasing fat storage pushing children in the direction of developing type 2 diabetes later in life, especially when they use sugary foods as positive reinforcement.
Not good once again!
I and any other up to date scientists can provide countless damages that are happening beneath the children's skin, as long as ABA continues being regardless of the harm it's doing beneath the surface I will not support it. Doing all of this to children as young as 2 years old, how much of an impact do you think this has on human development?
ABA has not done a single longitudinal study of its methods and is entirely ignorant of the results we see later in life. Universities have investigated the results and suspicions of today's ABA, they tested lots of autistic people, results showed that those who were subjected to ABA are still 86% more likely to meet the criteria of PTSD and nearly 50% of the people they tested are actually diagnosed with PTSD.
Those tested who were not subjected to ABA were found PTSD symptom free.
That doesn't look good to me!
More funding should go towards neuroscience to understand autistic behaviours biologically, by doing so they may come to find biological solutions.
I use biological solutions and have successfully helped autistic children accelerate in progression as unlike ABA, scientists outside of ABA are actually up to date with scientific discoveries, not once has ABA updated with the rest of science.
Until ABA updates its scientific methods, its functions of behavior, and incorporates modern day psychology - including neurology, child development, educational psychology, and other vital research - it cannot be considered to be a safe, effective, or ethical field.
There should be something like this on every consent form:
ABA therapy focuses on the behavior of your child but does not take into account modern research in neurology, biophysical factors in behavior, neurodevelopmental conditions, trauma, or child development.
The methodology behind applied behavior analysis was founded in the ’50s and ’60s and your analyst’s education may not have incorporated more modern discoveries in psychology or behaviorism. Use ABA as a therapy at your children's risk!
@@danielmoore4024 uhhh, was that really meant for me? I dont do ABA. I am autistic and have an autistic child. We will not have ABA in our lives. Please redirect this to whom it was intended.
I thought something similar. When I get overwhelmed I shut down and just lay on the floor. I was thinking she was doing it for the same reason; being overwhelmed or overstimulated
As a licensed therapist and autistic myself, I am outraged and have to ask: How can so-called neurotypicals completely ignore the fact that they are tormenting people? Their mental capacity does not seem to be sufficient to take a different view from their own.
The next time someone wants to make small talk while I'm shopping, I just kick their shin and say firmly, "STOP, do not talk to me!". If they complain, I refer them to ABA.
I believe what they call “empathy” is actually not true empathy but all they do is literally imagine themselves in your shoes. Then if they conclude it wouldn’t be so bad for _them_ it should be fine!
What kind of therapist are you?
@@pardonmyfrench4760 Maybe we should ask you the same thing.
I LOVE THIS COMMENT 😂😂🤧
Because the neurotypical brain HATES inconveniences. If believing another person’s experience will cause them to have to change something about _their_ life?? They will fight that belief to the death until ~something~ gets thru to them thru their own experiences or someone they trust helps them see things for what they are, but mostly they will just beat (figuratively and literally) or ignore the difference/pain/issues out of you.
ABA is like the most traumatic acting class ever that you didn’t ask to be in
That.... is a beautiful analogy
*stands and claps slowly*
This is perfect as an analogy
I love this analogy, I hate ABA
This comment is better than ABA is bad!
"if I let this stranger touch me against my consent I will get food" is such a great lesson to teach kids! Don't see how that could go wrong ever
this is a nice1 if it's sarcasm ^^ but be honest, is it? my autistic 🍑 needs to know 👁👄👁
@@kalyasaify yes, I was being sarcastic. I think this is a terrible idea to instill in children and sets them up for accepting abuse in the future
And yet neurotypicals still wonder why autistic people are ten times more likely to develop eating disorders. This stuff is sickening.
super random but in high school, in my chemistry class, I was partnered up with my best friend at the time and she asked what was wrong and I hadn't realized I was struggling to comprehend the instructions, and so I said "I think I need these out loud" and she immediately understood and read them out loud to me while I read on my page, and after that she kept helping me in that way - I was so shocked that she listened and actually offered to help me get to where I needed to be.
🥺❤️
Wow, you're lucky she actually listened & helped 😯
I hope your friend went on to become a therapist, because based on this story, she'd be amazing at it. She'd also be an excellent doctor
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
As an Autistic Person, one of the things I hate more than anything is being touched without permission. ABA is torture. The video with the music therapist actually made me cry with joy; I was never given these accommodations as a child.
ABA: Gay conversion for autistics.
Omg right? I'm so glad they included that, painful to watch and realize how bad the ABA model is/was.
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
Yeah, it's torture, and even friends of mine who are blind like I am who've done the research think it's OK. Uh... let's just say that I will no longer be willing to suffer fence sitters, and ABA lovers!
As if growing up autistic isn’t hard enough. depressing enough. Isolating enough. If I was subjected to this, in any capacity, I think I would have ended my life. This is disgusting.
The way you just described being autistic is really frightening me for my child :(
@@shauna3742 it’s not the autism that’s the issue. It’s the way people react. If you treat your child right, they won’t have these issues.
@@shauna3742
I'm going to be interviewed by a BCBA shortly and are going to discuss what needs alteration, or stopped, and start doing.
Make sure you emphasize your child's abilities and strengths, this is one thing I'm bringing up at my interview, that practitioners only focusing on difficulties results in a low self-esteem and a negative perception of themselves.
Look at what's good about your child's autism and approach it with the social model of disability, don't use the medical model as it defines people by what they can't do.
fr, only thing im grateful that i wasn't diagnosed until i was already eighteen is bc of aba. i know my parents wouldn't have allowed it, but the fact that it could've happened either way ( it's not like these institutions really care for the child or their parents wishes ) gives me so much pain
@@shauna3742 i think autism can be all the things they named, but it doesn't HAVE to be. i know it sounds scary when autistic people talk about all these bad experiences, especially for parents who just want their children to be happy. but the way autistic people experience their autism can change so much even with just parents accepting their kids and encouraging them to be themselves. i was never subjected to aba, for example, bc i wasn't diagnosed as a child, and i genuinely believe experiencing that would've have been the nail on the coffin for me. that's why parents educating themselves about how to correctly engage with their autistic children and what things are damaging to them ( aba, masking, not giving accommodations ) is so important. autistic people are not condemn to these isolated, sad lives, it's society who will try to convince us that we are
I had aba in school and it was the worst, I had people forcefully stop me stimming, people shouted at me when I had breakdowns and I was treated like a child constantly and never taken seriously when I said I was depressed because of it. The school tried to cover up our "abnormal behaviour" and pretty much taught us to mask until it was painful. I'm 20 now and only now accepting my autism after being hospitalised for mental health reasons several times in highschool. It. Doesn't. Help.
I am in the same boat.
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
You made a GREAT point with saying that disabled people get SA at a higher rate. ABA is just teaching these kids to accept it as something normal. It's a GATEWAY TO SA.
Yes it teaches the kids that when someone is hurting you, it is acceptable and normal. Other comments have called ABA grooming, and I agree.
Absolutely agreed. Just the attitude in general to autistic people can feel like a gateway too cause everyone will disregard your needs and you just have to put up with it. :c
What is SA?
@@labellavitakurz Se×ual Assau|t. CZcams doesn't like triggering words
@@labellavitakurz
Sexual assault
Thank you. I am a mom of an autistic child. I am autistic. When I was young, NO ONE talked about autism. I was the bad kid. The disruptive kid. The kid that neighbor kids were cautioned against playing with. I was different. Weird. Anyway, I didn’t know I was autistic until I was an adult. My son is 4. Since his diagnosis I have learned all I know about autism. Never did I learn about it because of me. But I was told ABA was the “norm” so I was prepared to put my son in it. Because of the pandemic it was put off and put off. Now that I have learned about autism and ABA I am grateful that I had that time to learn. My son will not be going to ABA and it took me a while to be okay with the decision because, again, it was what I was told was the norm. I learned how to mask my entire life so that I fit in better. I am 43 now and just in the last 2 years have I learned all this about myself and WHAT A RELIEF. I am sad that back then this wasn’t talked about. I am autistic, have ADHD, and all these things that I was was just described as behavioral issues. I am so relieved to meet other autistic adults/mothers because I feel less alone. Anyway I am still learning how to talk about all this because like I said I have had to mask my entire life. With my son I talk about autism on a daily basis and we are ALL ABOUT NEURODIVERGENCE in this home and in our lives. Autism is not a dirty word, not something to be swept under the rug and not spoken on. It is a HUGE part of me and my personality and now I can raise my son to be aware of this, to not be afraid or ashamed because he is “different”. This world is VERY slowly starting to accept these differences and someday hopefully they won’t be considered differences, but everyday personality traits that so many of us have. I hope somebody reads this because this was a lot for me to get out. I am still learning. I am only 2 years into this journey. Its something Ive lived with my entire life but its almost like Ive learned that everything I have known about myself is a lie. Not to my parents fault. It was just a different time. Thank you for reading this.
There are other kinds of therapy that can help an autistic child if need be. Make sure your son is listened to in therapy, as that is clearly not what happens in ABA. They clearly ignored the signals that the children were sending.
Good on ye for sharing. It's truly wild how much misinformation is presented as truth, way too easy to think 10 different partial behavioral issues are responsible instead of autism. For me it was learning about the co-morbidities that not every autistic person has, that previously I used to explain it away and not consider it.
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
ABA is accepted because of one simple premise: autistic people are considered to be an empty soul-less thing, a blank slate, sub-human.
We do not teach NT children this way at school. We dont even use this sort of "therapy" on thieves, rapists, or murderers. We DO use it to train animals however.
Parents: before considering putting your child thru ABA consider this: do you REALLY want your child to go thru something that society wont even accept doing to a rapist or murderer?
VERY GOOD POINT!
Also you don't withhold food from a dog in training or make them train while they're falling asleep that's cruel for any living thing
You are amazing
This absolutely, and also ABA therapy makes fat stacks of ca$h that most psychology professions do not. If they address the problems with ABA they won’t be able to exploit and torture children for money.
Why do I wish there was a place that does this to normal people just to expose how bad it is?
I would imagine it would go something like this:
Teacher: So I have just been given some flashcards with formulas on it... Pick up the quadratic formula
Students: *Picks up the flashcard with the wrong formula because they don't know what they're looking for*.
Teacher: *Gives all the students an electric shock*.
Paige! I’m a soooooooo glad I found your page!!!! My daughter was diagnosed with ASD in January. She’s was only 20 months old! She’s about to start ABA therapy and I always felt bothered by this. Watching your video helped me realize that my intuition is correct. Since my husband will be home for Violet’s first aba therapy, I asked him to observe how the therapist interacts with our daughter.
Instead of ABA therapy for children, why couldn’t they offer EDUCATION for parents on how to help our Autistic children be THEMSELVES? I want to be educated! I want my daughter to be herself and to be proud. She does not need fixing! The world does!
As an autistic, thank you for doing research. ABA is horrible. It’s just abuse. And I’m really glad you’ll observe but please please don’t continue with ABA, because it’s so damaging. Instead, there are many websites that give suggestions to parents of autistic children. Also getting involved with your child’s interests can also help. Just be pacient with them.
Go ahead, do not do ABA at all… years later if your daughter start having many behaviors you will regret about it
I don't think you should be doing ABA at all, but I'm glad you're at least vigilant. Also, an abusive therapist isn't gonna pull anything with you or your husband sitting in, they're gonna be on their best behaviour until you leave them alone with your child. And at any rate your daughter doesn't need to be trained like a dog, she's only a baby and you're absolutely right, she's just fine as she is. You obviously love your daughter very much, so please don't bother with it. It won't help anything even if there isn't overt abuse.
@@saumpaulinaaaaaaa
So you think it's acceptable to physically harm children internally just because you can't see the damage?
That's careless of you, you should educate yourself, ABA clearly does not take health seriously.
The circumstances and positions ABA methodology is physically and mentally harmful according to 21st century science.
We know that when a person consumes alcohol they are causing liver damage, but the individuals consuming alcohol seem so happy about it.
Something making someone happy does not mean it's health. On things like lung cancer from smoking, the cancer doesn't result after the first smoke does it? It takes smoking repetitively to develop blood clots and lung cancer.
It's the same with ABA, things may look good now just like it looks good when you see a 22 year old drinking alcohol feeling happy at a party, it takes quite a period of time for illnesses and cancers to develop doesn't it?
Putting children in anxiety triggering the fight or flight response then telling parents they have to go through with it, doing so releases adrenaline from the adrenal gland. Adrenaline damages blood vessels, increases blood pressure, increases heart rate which all greatly contributes to the development of heart diseases, just like tobacco greatly contributes to lung cancer and alcohol to liver damage.
As science has progressed ABA has remained in the early 20th century, it's being proven so many human behaviours are biological responses to what's happening on the inside, how a person is responding to their thoughts and not the environment.
The longer ABA continues refusing to come up to date with the rest of science, they're just going to continue living as their own culture. As long as they remain regardless of everything happening beneath the surface they will remain unethical, harmful and out of date.
Each time ABA overstimulates a person tension develops in the muscles. Sustaining tension in muscles causes chronic pain, then when they teach them to keep overstimulating themselves they take the risk of developing chronic pain disorders.
Not good!
The nervous system is directly connected to the brain through the spinal cord, scientists who are actually up to date claim there's approximately 1,000,000,000 neurons in the nervous system that they're describing it as a second brain and is the size of a cat or dog's brain. As ABA practices damage the immune system the children become more susceptible to sicknesses and diseases, especially associated with age.
Again, not good!
Due to variation in the hippocampus autistic people are more vulnerable to depression. When people are in depression there is a reduction to metabolism resulting in food being turned into fat instead of energy which is why depressed people snack more (because the food did not turn into energy) and increases fat storage. The body will feed off of sugary cells before calories which while increasing fat storage pushes children in the direction of developing type 2 diabetes later in life, especially when they use sugary foods as positive reinforcement.
Not good once again!
I and any other up to date scientists can provide countless damages that are happening beneath the children's skin, as long as ABA continues being regardless of the harm it's doing beneath the surface I will not support it. Doing all of this to children as young as 2 years old, how much of an impact do you think this has on human development?
ABA has not done a single longitudinal study of its methods and is entirely ignorant of the results we see later in life. Universities have investigated the results and suspicions of today's ABA, they tested lots of autistic people, results showed that those who were subjected to ABA are still 86% more likely to meet the criteria of PTSD and nearly 50% of the people they tested are actually diagnosed with PTSD.
Those tested who were not subjected to ABA were found PTSD symptom free.
That doesn't look good to me!
Behaviourism which is actually out of date and proven scientifically false, like it's claims;
• All behaviours are learned by experiences (I never learned how to have a meltdown)
• Genes have no influences on our behaviour (Autism is primarily genetic, behaviours to do with autism are biological)
More funding should go towards neuroscience to understand autistic behaviours biologically, by doing so they may come to find biological solutions.
I use biological solutions and have successfully helped autistic children accelerate in progression as unlike ABA, scientists outside of ABA are actually up to date with scientific discoveries, not once has ABA updated with the rest of science.
Until ABA updates its scientific methods, its functions of behavior, and incorporates modern day psychology - including neurology, child development, educational psychology, and other vital research - it cannot be considered to be a safe, effective, or ethical field.
There should be something like this on every consent form:
ABA therapy focuses on the behavior of your child but does not take into account modern research in neurology, biophysical factors in behavior, neurodevelopmental conditions, trauma, or child development.
The methodology behind applied behavior analysis was founded in the ’50s and ’60s and your analyst’s education may not have incorporated more modern discoveries in psychology or behaviorism.
@@saumpaulinaaaaaaa
Are you really going to trust an organisation founded upon dogmatic assumptions, like the claim that free will is an illusion?
ABA Therapy has been proven bias by the behaviourists' publications.
By ABA using diverse techniques on diverse individuals makes ABA subjective, they cannot generalise subjective results meaning they do not have objective evidence.
Published in 2021 by Psychological Bulletin
Abstract
The “replication crisis” describes recent difficulties in replicating studies in various scientific fields, most notably psychology. The available evidence primarily documents replication failures for group research designs. However, we argue that contingencies of publication bias that led to the “replication crisis” also operate on applied behavior analysis (ABA) researchers who use single-case research designs (SCRD). This bias strongly favors publication of SCRD studies that show strong experimental effect, and disfavors publication of studies that show less robust effect. The resulting research literature may unjustifiably inflate confidence about intervention effects, limit researchers’ ability to delineate intervention boundary conditions, and diminish the credibility of our science. To counter problems of publication bias in ABA, we recommend that journals that publish SCRD research establish journal standards for publication of noneffect studies; that our research community adopt open sharing of SCRD protocols and data; and that members of our community routinely publish systematic literature reviews that include gray (i.e., unpublished) research.
They're literally just setting these children up to be controlled and abused, the tasks are so nonsensical that I'm in disbelief
The people teaching these kids are insane. They talk to them like pets, and it's dehumanizing controlling every single thing they do. Patience is key, let kids be kids, and they should ONLY help them if they need to. These people be thinking that the autistic children are incapable of being smart , or cant think for themselves, and that's what makes me angry.
As a self diagnosed autistic adult, I used music as a coping mechanism when I was a child, so I love the idea of a music therapist for autistic children!
I can vision it as being amazing! Music is such a deep pleasure.
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
My sister works as McDonald's and has encountered a group of disabled teenagers along with their care takers or therapists. They are quite impatient and force the teens to respond. The guy my sister had to attend doesn't understand what a large fry or a small fry or medium fry is. Not even by trying to create a visual with your hands. All he keeps saying is that he wants fries. My bought bought out the different sized fry boxes and asked him to point which one he likes better. Can't remember which size he chose, but it solved the problem. Another time a child was forced by her dad to order a drink, but she's so nervous and shy and let alone can barely speak loudly enough to say what she wants. My sister related to the poor girl as she has anxiety and was often yelled and demanded by my dad when she had trouble ordering something. The dad knows what the girl wants, but refuses to help the girl. So my sister had an idea to do a multiple choice thing with her fingers. She would hold one finger up and say small. Hold 2 fingers and say medium. Holds 3 fingers and say large. The girl shyly said medium and held up 2 fingers. Problem solved.
When I worked in ABA, I struggled with the idea that when a child was having a meltdown, I was simply “reinforcing” and “punishing” the topical behavior…but never taught the child how to deescalate, label and understand their emotions, or discover outlets that could help them through the situation at hand. Instead, I would follow a plan that made the behavior “go away,” but never addressed why it happened in the first place. Compliance training. I quit soon after that. Your perspective and reiteration of facts is so necessary.
i don't want to be harsh on you, but if you worked in this field imo you have an obligation to get the word out and tell people (beyond videos that are already addressing it) about what you saw and that it's wrong.
@@SpecialBlanket i agree!! I’m in a MSW program and my main thesis, research, and outreach efforts surround raising awareness around the harms of ABA and creating material to elevate autistic voices. :)
If you don't mind, could you elaborate on ways to teach an autistic child how to deescalate on their own? I'm a special education aide in a school and often feel weird punishing and rewarding a 2nd grader for all her behaviors in front of her peers instead of teaching values or methods of self reinforcement and regulation and relating to peers as well as getting to know themselves. I myself am not autistic and am striving to learn more about what is best for a developing neuroatypical child.
@@lsour8546 id take them to a quiet place, let them breathe and stim, and once they are calm enough you can calmly ask if they are feeling better and how you can help them.
@@lsour8546 there’s also like, don’t really punish for meltdowns please? Because we literally cannot control it. For me it feels like I’m not there, my emotions are coming up and when someone asks me a question like “why are you doing this?” I’ll probably just repeat “i don’t know” over and over again bc I literally have no idea what is happening when I’m in that state.
As an autistic person ABA actually feels offensive and the opposite of helping and I actually felt the distressing child despite not experiencing ABA.
I actually felt a bit overwhelmed myself (not the typical ones I experience) and the loud noises the phycologist was making kind of hurt my ears a bit.
*ABA LITERALLY SHOULD NOT EXIST!!!*
I do not have autism and those videos were still unpleasantly loud to me. I cannot fathom how a "professional" could think that yelling at and aggressively touching a person with sensory issues is a reward
Exactly!
I would never want a therapist or anyone touch my child in that way
I probably would have bit my therapist if she pulled that at that age. Lucky for me I didn't have ABA
@@jojo-7306
Its the opposite of what they should do! They honestly shouldve just talk in a low voice to where it wont cause sensory triggers!
@@jojo-7306
It's because they are not educated about the autism itself and the common co-occuring disabilities autistic people have. They don't see themselves abusing children because they have not been taught this hurts autistic people.
I don't think any of them would want to confess to themselves to just may be abusing children for a living.
Just found out that my cousin is training to become an aba therapist and that my mom tried to talk to her and her mother about how bad that was and that they didn't care at all. Especially frightening considering that I have epilepsy and autism.
Update: cousin asked me for my take on what parents should know about their autistic kid after they are diagnosed. I did my best and she thanked me for the ton of info I gave her and added it all to her notes.
Wow, we didn't even think about epilepsy. ABA may legitimately kill a child because the rather aggressive stimuli triggers a seizure.
@@the11382
This is just one of the unethical issues I see them failing to address. Nearly every autistic person I’ve met has another disability or comorbidity besides their autism, and therapists including BCBAs have no education about the disabilities/comorbidities, not one therapist has been able to answer questions about them.
I’m epileptic myself, ABA workers are not taught stress, anxiety, and tiredness are three of the most common seizure triggers and their behaviour plans can be very stressful, cause anxiety, and be tiring as they’ve already been at school all day.
I want there to be actual specialists about the disabilities to do safety checks on their behaviour plans, or have them educated during a university course before gaining a license to work with disabled children. I find this great lack of education an ethical problem that needs solving.
Hope your cousin completes study. My son loves his therapists.
@@FloatingGoat27man just tell us you don’t have your son’s best interest at heart and move on
@roasted_toast69 Yes. That is it. I'm the great oppressor. I don't have my son's best interest at heart.... but i do want him to be one of the 20 percent of autistic adults that can function independently outside of his parents care after he is 18 years old so there is also that, so we use supplements and ABA and OT and speech therapy. Autism is NOT a preference it is a disease.
This is not only glorified dog training, it's also torture. As an Autistic all I see are kids being manipulated and forced to do things that are unnatural, uncomfortable, overwhelming and painful.
If I was a five year old kid, having to do that, I'll get frightened, I'll get angry and what makes that worse is, unwanted touch from strangers.
The tickling is terrifying
@@person2194 Especially if you HATE getting touched by strangers.
i would be so frightened and breakdown from this now at age 19. can’t imagine being a child and going through this. terrifying
I didn’t even like being touched by people I knew especially if it’s my hair or tickles😓😖 I couldn’t imagine intimidating strangers touching me without permission while trying to boss me around with useless tasks. Sounds like literal hell 🤢
@@person2194 it gave me anxiety watching that…they used to do that to me too. I can’t believe how many of my boundaries have been ripped down because of ABA, it’s disturbing! I’m so happy she made this video!
I was recently working with a student who is categorized as limited-verbal. He really enjoys puzzles. Once he finished the puzzle, the teacher came over and jumbled up all the pieces and started putting them back into the box. The teacher then gave me a sensory toy for the student 'in case he gets upset'.
When I asked why the teacher did this, he said that the student puts the puzzle away one piece at a time and he wants to discourage that. But for my student, putting the puzzle away piece by piece is PART of the whole experience. Really annoyed me to be honest. The teacher is a nice person but frequently tries to get us discourage autistic behaviours instead of helping the students learn new skills. This is very common in our program. 😔
What a terrible teacher. Honestly, who cares that the kid puts it away one piece at a time?
So fucked up
You're too generous, she sounds like a horrible person. What does she think the point of a puzzle is but enjoyment? If the child gets just as much enjoyment putting it away as putting it together why stop him? And they say autistic people lack empathy...nasty woman.
I hope he was fired or left! This kind of thing makes bad teachers!
Me - a psychotherapy student - who sent a lengthy email 2 months ago to the biggest local autism center in my area after seeing they offered ABA when I looked for internship positions - asking them how and why they use ABA. I listed all the research that suggests that 80% of former ABA patients suffer from PTSD. etc. etc. wanting to know if MAYBE here in Europe we practice it differently than in North America (call me naive, but I really wanted to work with autistic kids. Just not when this organisation tortures them) Getting the short response after weeks saying -our interns don‘t use the ABA method anyway-.
Seeing Paiges video & thinking - do I wanna get more enraged with this organisation? Nope.
Am I still gonna watch this video to educate myself? 100%
Ps: I of course didn‘t apply there and got another lovely internship in the psychotherapy field 😊
as someone who suffered from being abused by people like that neurodivergents don't need it
@@emilyrouk1820 i‘m very sorry this happened to you. I would really like to work with autistic children in the future. But of course NOT using anything like ABA. Rather like Paige described it - teaching them about THEIR feelings, about THEIR boundaries and how to cope so THEY feel good and not how to play an act to please their parents or society.
@@emilyrouk1820 oh and also I would love to work along adults autistics, so they can help me better understand. Rather than just learning it in university. I don‘t think you have to necessarily be neurodivergent to be able to help but you need to be able to LISTEN. I used to struggle with my mental health a LOT. And I don‘t believe that every psychotherapist has to go through what I went through, but I do believe that I have a unique perspective when working with people with mental health issues. (Not comparing autism to mental health issues of course)
@@emilyrouk1820 as a neurodivergent person, we do need support. as someone who is lacking support, i would like ppl such as this person rather than the aba therapists shown in this video. aba therapy is trying to force them into a box thru trauma rather than helping them to learn about themselves and to cope better with things.
@@ferninthehouse neurodivergents have existed since the dawn of time and have survived in the world just fine special education and aba was only invented to turn neurodivergants into neurotypicals out of ableism and have the scars to prove it
As the mom of an autistic kid with adhd (now a new adult), the best approach we found (through trial and error) was to find facts (studies etc) about what we needed him to do. A foot doc gave him facts about wearing socks with shoes he changed overnight to wearing socks with shoes. It now made sense to him. He wouldn't learn to tie his shoes (for 7 YEARS). He wanted shoes with laces. Learned to tie shoes in 10 minutes. If it makes sense to him, he'll learn the new thing. If it doesn't, he'll spend the next 3 hours explaining to YOU why it isn't logical.
I'm so tired of autistic people being forced to adapt to NT society. Is there ever going to be a place that makes space for us to be us? I love my autism and autistic quirks, but when I go out into society, society freaks out because I act differently or learn differently. I can't even exist peacefully without people taking issue.
There's nothing wrong with me. Society is the problem.
I’m an ABA therapist, and I would never want my kids to lose their quirks, or be judged for them. I simply want the best for them; I teach them how to communicate wants and needs, resort to other self-calming strategies if stimming is not an option, and to be independent from brushing teeth to managing emotions. I agree there’s a lot of bad things that happen in ABA, but I don’t necessarily thing it’s because of the basic principle, but because of the grey area people take advantage of. ABA should not be for obedience, but for independence.
@@alyssaxmay ABA is the issue at hand because it is based on behaviorism and it tries to rids the autistic individuals of their autistic traits by making them "indistinguishable from their peers". ABA was founded by someone who made gay conversion therapy. That's what ABA is. Basically gay conversion therapy but for autistics. I am heavily against ABA. I just hope to help therapists to see that.
@@kaishawna3753 the issue here is that blaming individual therapists for causing the damage ABA does is harsh and trying to get them to change occupation is very risky in capitalist society. The best anyone can do now is be as accommodating as possible and break as many “therapy” rules as possible (i.e. do not force children to conform) without being caught.
@@gliiitched she really said she helps them stop stimming when it’s not available. what the hell? when is it not available. when people are being ableist lmfaooooo that’s when… i just am dumbfounded she went to school for psychology and didn’t just see how ignorant the comment was.
@@lotus8650 yeah I feel you, “stopping stimming” is just bootlicking non autistic people. What I kinda meant is that ABA is terrible and whoever does it needs to find resources like this and move forward in their careers breaking as many ABA rules as possible while looking for a new, actually helpful career.
disabled (not autistic tho) college student here. im studying elementary/special ed. ive heard of ABA but thankfully my professors dont believe in it or teach it to us. this is honestly disgusting. EVERYTHING about this goes against what we know about children's emotional development. ive been teaching preschool all year and the only time ive touched a child was when a boy asked me to hold his hand while they walked to recess and when a girl was crying and asked for a hug. physical touch should have NOTHING to do with reward/consequences. neither should food. also i hate the "do it" command. and the instruction to do loud "baby" talk to them.
children should be allowed to make mistakes, to make choices, to sit however they want as long as it's not harming them or others. they are literally teaching them to accept abuse and dependence on others. this is so, so awful.
Using 'disabled' is ableist
Umm. The poster can define themselves any way they choose!
@@Anonymous-df8it How are you gonna tell a disabled person what is or isn't offensive to them... the idiocy. Also disabled (autistic), and no it's not. Disabled isn't a dirty word, you making it out to be is ableist.
@@blakberrii1373 [citation needed]
Can you tell us about your disability to make things clear to these other commenters? Americans...🙄
I used to be in ABA and it's honestly one of the most shameful things I've ever been a part of. At the time, I really thought I was doing something rewarding and I genuinely thought that I was helping the autistic kids I worked with. But, when I did my research and realized how harmful ABA really is, I left. I cannot believe that the harms of ABA aren't more common knowledge. Thank you for continuing to educate so many people, including me, on how to be a true ally for the autistic community. I know this must be hard for you too, so please know that your work is not going unappreciated.
I've never been in ABA. Whoopins and bullying trained me to mask until I couldn't anymore and ended up having meltdowns in teen years to adulthood. To this day, my mother thinks it's a "behavior problem"...
Luckily home was pretty safe for me but I also learned to mask due to bullying. I'm not even that good at masking tbh
You deserved better than that, and my heart hurts for you that even the people who are supposed to care for you are so horrible, instead.
@@jay01342same with me!
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
That music therapist you showed at the end of the video was so sweet I almost cried. Compared to the ABA examples he was treating her with so much compassion and gentleness 😭
It's also been pointed out that even with NT kids we rely FAR too much on praise. Kids learn that doing a task is only worth while if someone tells them they did a good job. So a lot of us grow up constantly seeking praise and we find it difficult to do something just for personal fulfillment. This is like that phenomenon x100.
I remember adults being touchy like this to me in elementary school. it made me feel so on edge all of the time! I would make sure to not have my back turned in front of adults so they wouldn't touch me or move me and sometimes they would still do it. It was exhausting!
Can I add another perspective? I am AuDHD, touch is my way of communicating. I am a mum of 4 ND kids and I am aware of the issues around touch and am respectful of that (my eldest hates to be touched a d that breaks my heart but I respect it. My youngest, however, loves a hug). I am a bit older (54) and I have the most horrible images of Romanian orphans who were denied any kind of touch and it did them great emotional harm. I was also abused as a child so I am aware of inappropriate behaviour.
So many children go to nursery at a ridiculously early age and hardly ever see their parents (that is not a criticism of parents) but many nurseries won't allow staff to touch children at all. Babies don't even get held when they are crying, that's not healthy.
I was a teaching assistant working with children in reception and the firrst 2 years of school. Many of these children were anxious about being separted from their parents for the first time and needed a hug. I always saw myself as their "mum at school', someone they could always come to if they needed someone to go to then I was there for them. My experience was that most kids want a hug if they are struggling or have hurt themselves or are feeling overwhelmed. It is so important that we respect children's boundaries but we also need to be there for them. In many Scandinavian countries children are not seen as old enough to attend school u till they are 7 years old, in the UK they start school at 4...they are still babies. It is so important that we respect the boundaries of children but it is also important that if they need a hug or praise or someone to take a minute to give them some attention they get that too.
Some of the kids I worked with in reception and Yr 1 will still give me a hug if they see me in the street and they are at high school now and I even ran into a parent of a child who is an adult now a few weeks ago and she said that I was always his favourite teacher.
Some kids need that support and others don't, it's Important to know the children and support their emotional needs in the way that they need us to support them, not make a blanket statement one way or the othet
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
Honestly, ABA seems perfect for predators to take advantage of children.
Predators have noticed that too. Its why disabled people are at such high risk of experiencing violence. They're trained to be easy, obedient targets.
Oh no… Paige I genuinely feel for you on the fact that you are putting yourself through making more ABA content. You truly suffer for the sins of an ableist society and I eagerly await the day that we can financially compensate you for your work. I know you said you won’t read this comment section, but whether or not you see this, we love you dearly.
🥺🥺
@@realpaigelayle
…
*wakes up from nap*
oh that’s cool there’s a circle next to the bell I wonder wha-🤭
…I… I can’t believe it. I’m in disbelief. I’m speechless. I’m honored. I wasn’t expecting this today. Thank you for taking time out of your day to respond to me. I’m in complete effing shock right now and will cherish this forever. 🥺
P.S. I saw the video description, I hope things get better for you soon. ☺️
Using food as a reward is how you start eating disorders. Also notice how thoroughly uncomfortable all of these kids looked when they were being tickled and touched
I work with autistic children in kindergarten (not aba, I have a masters in development and neuropsychology) and a lot of the language that I use with them is "how can I help you right now?" I find this can be very useful because its not about getting a child to do what you want them to do, its about helping them communicate what they need in that moment. One thing that I tell people is to "teach in green" teach a child calming strategies while they are calm so that they can do them when they are upset.
I often build the daily schedule with my kids, i'll give them choices on what to do through out the day and we make a schedule together. One of the kids always tells me that we are like a team. School is a very overstimulating and busy place, with constant noise and distractions all around you, telling a 5yo to point to what a shoe is isnt going to help them get through gym class without getting overstimulated; what helps is to communicate with them and provide them with the materials that they need to feel safe. (sensory headphones for a echoing gym are an example of this.)
As an Autistic person, I would confirm that you are approaching Autistic kids the right way.
The way all of the kids look bored or in distress like this literally is the opposite of helping
This is literally TRAINING kids to mask. That is all it is. IF they do not behave like the "norm" they are punished. When They do are are rewarded. This is forced masking.
And even then they aren't really rewarded sometimes. They're "rewarded". The ABA therapist will reward the child with something that the child doesn't like and the ABA therapist tries to force them to like their reward. The reward is really just based off what the ABA therapist wants. They don't care about what would be a reward for the child or if the reward actively hurts the child.
Idk. That might be ok for conventionally attractive white children but look at what happened to Elijah McClain and Matthew Rushin. Some parents just want to keep their kids safe and having them perceived as “normal” is what is safest. Especially when they are autistic and intellectually disabled. Check out livingwithlilac on Instagram. If there is a police interaction, you don’t want your kid dead because they can’t communicate in a composed, non threatening way. I understand where OP is coming from but in the US it’s dangerous to be brown and unable to act in an “acceptable” manner. Remember that autism is a spectrum and not everyone has the same aversions. Negative Reinforcement aka removal of something perceived as negative, is FR. even NT kids know that if they act up in class they will be removed and avoid doing the thing they don’t want to do. Adults do this too. If your husband does the dishes poorly you won’t ask him to do them again, right?
@@mixedviews3536 There is a big difference between a white parent wanting their child to look more normal and a black parent wanting to keep their child alive-
However ABA tends to simply take credit for a kid growing up (which they do on their own), and doesn't really work in the first place. Besides that, there is a very likely chance of developing trauma from ABA, and it also makes people more susceptible to other forms of abuse because it teaches people that they cannot say no, regardless of their own discomfort.
I have never meant an autistic person who's gone through ABA and has avoided trauma and the destruction of their self esteem.
With respect to parents simply wanting to keep their children alive, there are better ways.
It's teaching kids to be abused ,that they are an abomination and not allowed to be them ,they must suffer continously in order to even be fed ,and they must not under any circumstances be autistic.
@@Dimensionalalteration nobody is not feeding the children. It’s called a reinforcer. Go look at living with lilac. It’s not only people who are just autistic. Sometimes people have autism and developmental delays. I think it’s only fair to teach people to not behave in a way that may be viewed as threatening to law enforcement. I wish that we lived in a world where you could be yourself but Elijah McClain was murdered because of his autism. He was stiming while Black and people thought it was suspicious and therefore called the cops. The cops overdosed him, stomped on him, and killed him. Then hi fived. I’ve studied ABA and we never learned anything like what’s in the videos. Those videos are weird. Everything I learned was about creating autonomy for people so they can live functional lives. It had nothing to do with being “normal”, rather it focused on feeding yourself, communication, and basic life skills- dressing, laundry, etc. people get murdered at the hospital by doctors but nobody says shut down all hospitals or no more surgeries.
When my son was 3, going on 4, he received his diagnosis. Not knowing yet what to do, we listened to the "professionals" and went to a session. As his mom I hated how it went and we never went back. My son also told me as we left that he felt like a dog being trained. Luckily my son has always been able to communicate to me and I always understood and listened. Maybe because I think I undiagnosed myself. Watching this brought back that icky feeling I had that day.
My school teaches ABA, over the years of being in this district I’ve witnessed so much abuse. There was one para for example, that would regularly verbally abuse their student. Calling them an idiot and shit like that. They got away with it too, it’s so sickening. In the words of another para, “I just tell them anything I want, it’s not like they can respond” like her students were just objects for her to vent her frustrations to. Jesus Christ.
Holy shit they don't even see the kids as people.
I know!!! It's definitely so cruel for ABA therapists and aides to be so explicit about insults not affecting autistics just because they don't show that physically or verbally. I witnessed this happen once on a school trip and during dinner. I was having dinner with my mom, a sweet autistic girl a grade above me, and her aide. Her aide's words to my mom horrifed me: "I can just say anything I want about [her student's name] and it'll go straight over her head!" That made me sick to my stomach and just angry at how careless and confident someone can be to say all these nasty and ignorant things in front of her student.
@pink magic subliminals
It was very telling in the grocery store video when that “mother” literally explained that the cookie they just got was to be used as tool to control their daughter when the daughter is standing literally standing next to her. She heard every word, she knows that nothing she thinks matters, that nothing she feels matters. That girl definitely knows that she is a puppet on strings to perform for the comfort and ease of others.
Idk if my school taught ABA but I remember going on a field trip in 8th grade. On the way back the bus driver went a different way which seemed to freak out a kid (who I think was autistic) at the front of the bus. He was sitting with one of the special ed teachers in the window seat. The teacher was a very large man with a loud booming voice. He began to shout at this kid right in his face and hovered over the kid. The kid was basically trapped next to a loud man screaming at him with no means of escape. I remember I (who was sitting in one of the middle rows of the bus) immediately turned to my best friend and said "This is wrong. This is wrong" and she was also horrified and agreed with me. I knew, even at 14 how wrong that was and that I would be screaming and crying if a large man was yelling in my face too. Now as an adult, I have realized I am autistic myself but never got diagnosed. I can't imagine what school would have been like for me if I had been diagnosed. I was already bullied a lot by peers growing up and if I had the diagnosis I probably would have been bullied by teachers as well. When will society finally accept that some people are just not neurotypical and that forcing someone to become someone they're not or face mistreatment is wrong?
"They have to do the thing, and they have to do it when anyone asks them to do it. Including strangers."
In other words: "How to make your child more vulnerable to predators tutorial"
Before I found out my son was autistic, I had autistic friends tell me how bad ABA was. When we got my son's diagnosis, we were encouraged to put him in ABA. I'm so thankful that both my husband and and I understood our son and ABA and declined to put him in. Instead, he does play based speech, occupational therapy, special Ed preschool (that isn't ABA led) and swimming lessons while also letting him be a kid and playing the way he wants, giving him the tools to control his sensory input, like earmuffs, sunglasses, black out curtains and silky textures. His room is a safe spot. our house is autistic friendly to the point where he rarely has a meltdown. He speaks on his own terms and we'll encourage other ways to communicate, like texting or sign or pictures. I'm so proud of him for being the person he was meant to be, autistic and all, and I wouldn't want that changed at all.
I cannot believe how emotional I am over how amazing your home sounds! I'm genuinely happy you guys are doing what you can to make sure your son gets to live well and without abuse. 🥹❤
I helped my son reduce aggression and improve in speech and social skill with the help of Dr Oyalo herbal supplement I got from CZcams here. His herbs work perfectly
The way they were treating the girl in the red and black striped shirt BROKE my heart. The poor girl was literally trying to wipe her tears but her hands kept being forced down! I felt sick to my stomach during that clip. I sincerely hope that he is just a "therapist" and not her guardian because that would be absolute hell. Thank you for spreading awareness about this vile "treatment" system!
Also I loved the last video so much! It made my heart happy again after all the yuck
I’m so happy you shared the music therapy video at the end. I’m practically surrounded by ABA programs in my college town, and it blows my mind that ABA is somehow viewed as the “gold standard treatment” for autistic kids. It gets pushed on all the psych majors at my school. I’m glad I didn’t go that route, but knowing that tons of my classmates were taught that ABA is great and many of them worked as an ABA tech for their practicum requirements makes me feel very uncomfortable. I would not feel comfortable telling any of my psych classes that I’m on the spectrum, and that has everything to do with what the school teaches these impressionable 18-19 yr olds as they begin their degree.
The clip you showed at the end gave me hope that there are programs out there that seek to actually help autistic kids understand their feelings, communicate their needs, and navigate the world around them. I really hope to see these programs show up more and eventually completely replace ABA. I’d love to have a career doing what that music therapist is doing.
The most dangerous part to all of this is that sometimes there are autistic children that enjoy being touched (my nephew needs to feel you constantly) but I cannot imagine the pain of those who don't; my husband do feel pain when being touched, I needed to learn to touch him properly to not hurting him, and I wanted to, because I mean, you're a monster if you know that when you touch the one you love you're actually making them feel pain, and you do it anyway.
I believe ABA therapists do not even know the REAL struggles of autistic people.
After watching this, I’m a little bit less mad that I was diagnosed so late in life!
I've always been thankful for my late diagnosis. I think I would have used Asperger's as an excuse for not changing certain behaviors that needed changing to function better in society. I was able to decide what to work on that was important to me. Maybe I would have done better with proper therapy, or maybe I'd have gone insane in ABA, who knows. It turned out well doing it on my own.
Yeah my parents already we're constantly correcting my autistic behavior so I can't imagine if I went to ABA. That seems worse than just my dad telling me to make eye contact. No one moved me around.
Fr, if there’s any benefit to a late DX it’s not having to be run through this awful shit
My sister reached out to me recently saying an aba therapy place was looking to hire her and asked me if she should take it. They were willing to hire an 18 year old with no formal training or any history of working with autistic children or people. I told my sister she shouldn't take it and told her about aba. She didnt take it luckily. And another company reached out to me, unprovoked, trying to hire me. I also have no formal training, have taken not nearly enough Psychology classes, and have never worked with autistic children or adults.
What does this mean....aba hires anybody. There are NO requirements to be an aba therapist. Meaning these people probably don't know anything about autism or the needs of autistic children at all, making this "therapy" even worse!!
Juliette Braden,
I've asked ABA workers all across the internet questions about psychology, neurology, biology, autism, human development, and mental health.
Not one ABA worker has had the ability to answer a single scientific question, even the most fundamental parts of psychology like the approaches themselves. This includes the BCBAs, the highest rank in ABA.
Ask them to scientifically explain why a person exhibits a certain behaviour and the best answer they can give is "reinforcement".
Reinforcement doesn't explain a thing to us, just there's a reason for the behaviour.
ABA methodology has no concerns about health and wellbeing, only behaviour modification. ABA is not ecological and is too deterministic, its principles claim all behaviours are a response to the environment.
So apparently we have no free will, when someone commits a crime it's the environment's fault.
Well you don’t exactly need a psychology degree for gay conversation therapy either so it’s the same difference.
@@thegameowl11 what are you trying to say exactly?
@@juliettebraden3328 the man who founded aba/is credited for it also took part in creating conversion therapy, that's what this person is referring to.
Seriously, my rejection note would be this:
"Dear Sir or Madam,
after careful consideration, I have decided to reject your job offer. The fact that you would hire someone with no formal training what so ever raises a lot of red flags in me. Children with Autism need people who are trained in knowing what Autism even is. People without formal training don't know that and are just going to make children's lives a living hell for no reason.
Yours sincerely, [my name]"
That last video... He KNOWS what he's doing, excellent skills! Waiting for the child to engage! Mutual respect! I wish all autistic children had a learning environment which was that thoughtful.
My mom who works in ABA has told me before that you can train children the same way you train dogs. They are genuinely taught to train kids like dogs.
40 hours a week is literally my full time job at an Amazon warehouse. I’m 21 and autistic. There are parents out here who are willing to put their autistic children through the same amount of time worth of therapy that basically tortures them into being what society considers “normal.” Gross.
And doing that in addition to regular school.
Plus other therapies.
@@jennifermems1111 school in itself is often horrible for autistic people, or even allistic people, i can't imagine how exhausted the _children_ would be. can society please treat people under like 18 as.. People, people that deserve to have their needs met and basic human rights
It's also a very obvious sign that this is a complete grift. I was diagnosed with Autism in the 90's and my therapy only constituted 1-2 hours a week, and even then I had breaks from therapy. No therapy regimen should be as much as a full time job, especially for children. The fact that this is so intense, expensive and marketed as "the most effective autism treatment" is super fucking predatory.
But this is how desperate some parents are, that they're willing to forego basic critical thinking skills when someone tells them they can "save" their child. It's so messed up.
@@miffedmax3863 I would love to learn more about experience. What kind of therapy did you do, and was it effective? What unethical things do you think should be addressed? I'm an ABA therapist, and my BCBA and I are constantly discussing ethical issues because we are aware what past ABA programs were like. There's even stuff in this video that makes me uncomfortable (excessive touching, yelling even though it bothers the kids, not giving the kid breaks, etc).
"Important life skills" she was literally just following commands. Important life skills are knowing to take ear plugs and sunglasses when I go shopping, or keeping a small fidget toy on my lanyard so I can self-regulate, or dressing in layers so I can shed them if it's too hot in the store. I was consistently abused by authority as a child, physically and verbally harassed by grown ass people for being "defiant" by not speaking or making eye contact. My autonomy has always been crucial to my well-being and if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have let them get away with touching me. I still think about the times adults (not even my parents, just random adults) would grab my wrist and it would hurt and I just wanted to kick them and run away but I was too scared to. I wish I had.
I've come to the conclusion the most important life skill ever is being able to honestly and firmly say "no" and "yes" (and without an avalanche of shame, fear, and guilt)
what paige said about being told to "show your work" in math class resonated with me so so deeply. i cannot begin to count the number of times and ways i got in trouble for not showing my work or not being able to find words for something. i was always in advanced classes growing up because i tested well and learned easily without needing to study or anything. i never learned study habits as a kid that i really needed later in life, so when i got to high school i was at a major disadvantage when it came to studying. being in advanced classes my whole life was really hard in a lot of ways because i was really smart, but i didnt have the tools i needed. i wasnt diagnosed with autism as a kid, and without an iep i couldnt have any of the "extra help" (aka minor accomodations) i needed to reach my full potential. math and science classes i always did well in because thats just how my brain works. im not dyslexic, but i do struggle with processing/analyzing words/sentences, so english wasnt easy a lot of the time. history has always been my absolute worst subject because i dont find it interesting enough and i cant remember things like i need to since words are not my strong suit. i dont think in words or pictures so putting thoughts into words can be extremely difficult. this has become a huge rant and i dont remember the reason i originally had for commenting, so uh ill end it here
Omg thank you that's what happened to me but everyone always blamed me
Omg, the distress is so overwhelming in the last two children before the music therapist segment, I feel like crying. They're putting so much on the children's shoulders, so much sensory input, so many expectations and different unnecessary tasks for them to perform when it's already such an overwhelming situation. The way they keep touching, physically restraining, controlling, yelling in their ears, disrupting and handling their entire bodies is so violent, even to me and I'm behind a screen witnessing this being done to children to whom it is being done by intimidating adults who show no genuine, healthy care for them! I want to protect them so bad, you can feel the trauma oozing from the settings they're being forced in, it's unbearable, torture! I can't believe parents can see their children being treated in this way by complete strangers and going along with it without feeling terrible. Those kids are clearly malting-down, of course they need everything to be stopped so someone will help them feel better, show them their distress is important to others and valid, how to regulate... and the leaving thing from the parents at the shop when their daughter is showing any sign of distress is the worst! They're essentially teaching her that if she expresses her needs, distress or who she is and how she feels, she will be abandoned and left to her own devices, which isn't much since they keep mistreating her as soon as she follows her own instincts, feelings and ideas about how to handle herself in any way that feels best to her! I am disgusted and heartbroken! ABA needs to be banned! How did no one get the clue from it being invented by the very same guy who created conversion therapy yet? Families of autistic children need better resources at their disposal and autistic kids, better legal protection of their rights and well-being! This looks all so predatory to me!
Before I knew I am autistic, my ex thought I was reluctant to go grocery shopping out of laziness so he would end up always doing it for the both of us. So he waited for me to feel bad enough and come along each time and would never buy me anything when he was shopping by himself even if we hadn't planned on going to the store at that time in the first place and he just happened to drop by for some groceries. But at the time, it was already obvious something was wrong with me and stores since I would prefer going hungry while he ate what he had bought himself rather than go to a store. And every time I'd go with him, on top of the sensory overload, I struggled keeping track of where he was or knowing where we were supposed to meet again because he would almost never take the time to agree of such a meeting point with me and already be off doing his thing, and the time we did set a place to meet up again, I would never find him there... long story short, when shopping, my anxiety levels were already very high due to sensory stimulation, but my blanket solution was always having my headphones on. When shopping with him, I would stress about keeping track of him on top of the sensory overload, my anxiety were through the roof and I wouldn't wear my headphones so we could communicate and because I never wore them when with someone. I couldn't focus on what I was supposed to get even if we had made a list ahead of time. Almost every single time I was shopping with him, I'd be having a panic attack within 5-10 minutes, even in the smallest of shops. And how many times did end up looking for him throughout the entire store once I was done with my part of the shopping only to get out of the store and either find him some place outside or find a text on my phone that he was already back home. I only self-diagnosed towards the end of our relationship, once I'd had a couple of weeks away from him. And when I told him, he dismissed me saying he had worked with autistic people and that they had trisomy so I couldn't be autistic (sighhhh)...
Since then, I've been allowing myself to do my shopping on my way back home so I don't have to get back out once I get to my safe space. And I always have my regular headphones and ear-protection headphones, my grocery shopping list, a scarf to hide my eyes behind when the light is too much and I need a moment and a anti-stress squishy cube to stimm with inside my pocket or bag. And thanks to a friend, I've learnt to no longer guilt-trip myself when I just don't have the energy to go shopping and be ok with ordering my groceries online or straight up ordering some comforting food when I have a period when I feel worse and can't even muster enough energy to put together a meal for myself. Just acknowledging, legitimising and listening to my needs and boundaries made a world of a difference. It makes the difference between absolute hell to bearable! My NT mom who had no idea I wasn't NT would have never put me through this in a store or in any type of therapy or schooling system, even though she put me through all other kinds of abusive stuff. That's how low the bar in these clips is. I can only hope these kids meet adults in there lives that show them that something healthier and truer to who they are exists outside of all that abuse that is being thrown at them all the time, so that they at least have some kind of tool once they grow up, to know that something other than trauma is possible and that some people out there will support them in that, that therapy is not meant to further harm and that such resources exist.
my jaw hit the floor when i got to the end of the second paragraph--- TRISOMY???? thats downs syndrome not autism????? it's actually baffling, the audacity some people have. I'm sorry you had to deal with him and glad that you've begun to accommodate for your needs.
That sounded like such a horrible situation I hope you’re doing better now!
I dont understand why they stop the children stimming. Im autistic and a school bus driver. I auditory stim whilst driving and my KIDS dont care. Why are nuerotypical adults the only people that are worried about what we do to regulate ourselves? Its so odd.
Literally just because it looks weird.
@@MrJstorm4 So do you think stimming looks weird or are you saying that most people see our stims as weird? I'm just generally confused.
@@kaishawna3753 i think it was more so a “people think it looks weird” not a criticism of stimming in general (which is such a wild concept to me to this day i s2g)
As an ABA therapist, we only CONSIDER implementing a program to add alternative sensory strategies when a child's stimming is either dangerous (staring into fluorescent light bulbs for extended periods of time) or is occurring at such a high intensity that they are unable to access the curriculum or transition during the day.
Christ, I'm autistic and didn't go through ABA therapy.
I had heard stories about how abusive it is, but seeing this ... it's way worse than I thought. How can Neurotypicals not see the problems here?
Because they literally do not see autistic people as sentient, at least not fully. They also don't necessarily see children as having rights beyond those privileges granted by their parents.
NT here. It’s OLD neuro typical people that see no problem with this. A lot more people my age (17) are trying to understand how to best help atypical people live average lives and succeed early on in life and best make them feel welcome.
Because neurotypical=r word
Because they don't see us as human
@@jackriver8385 Exactly. We should make neurotypical 'people' not alive. Too much ableism in this world...
I am crying so hard right now. When my son was diagnosed autistic (he was two and now he's almost nine), I was still several years away from self-identifying as autistic myself. He was diagnosed in 2015. I didn't know anything about autism at the time and so my husband and I did what the doctor told us to do and put him in ABA. I have thought for many years now that his therapy was beneath him -- that he knows what they want him to do only he doesn't see the point so he just sits there. I know how to read my son. Honestly, it feels like it's been a lot of time and headache for nothing. For example, they worked with him on toilet training for at least five years and he didn't get trained until he decided he was ready anyway. The government pays for it all and we've had nothing but hassles with the beaurocracy to get our funding. And I wonder why the government is spending all these millions of dollars on ABA for autistic children (which doesn't make them less autistic at all) and so little money on support for adults like me who are struggling just to get diagnosed. I will definitely be writing to Queen's Park 😡
As an autist, I always thought that others' vocal stims made me uncomfortable, via seeing those meltdowns people (read: bad parents) post online. I continued to think this while watching this video; every time a "therapist" touched a child, I felt ready to claw my skin off. Then I got to the end, and the girl with the music therapist was stimming happily, and my similarly calm reaction made me realize that what ACTUALLY makes me uncomfortable is my fellow autists in distress, and THAT made me realize that almost everything I see about autism is people in distress, and that just made me really sad.
Another thing to consider is that if the parents haven't communicated CLEARLY that the child is supposed to obey the ABA therapist, they might refuse to follow instructions out of a desire to be an obedient child to their parents. Imagine the discomfort from being pulled both ways like that, with a punishment on one side and a perceived punishment on the other.
This therapy literally teaches kids how to get kidnapped and taken advantage by strangers. Everything you teach [neurotypical] children about protecting themselves from predators is the opposite of ABA wtf
For that matter, many of the important things people learn to turn themselves around from a life of crime are the opposite of what ABA teaches (especially in the realm of socialization and things like that), if Jessica Kent's channel is any indication. Then the "therapists" are all shocked pikachu face when one of their autistic kids finds a "friend" who talks them into doing them an itsy-bitsy favor and helping them move some d r u g s (illegal ones, obvs.), and ends up in jail themselves.
@@lsmmoore1 exactly! It's the "do this" command, "do this" doesn't explain them why they should do it and they'll do everything people tell them to do because they were programmed to as toddlers:c any predator can take advantage of them:c especially for autistic people who tend to take everything literally and don't question if a command is stupid or dangerous. It happened to me many times when people said I should do something as a joke and I didn't realize it was a joke because I didn't get the clue:c and that's just my natural response without ABA training
@@cristallilith4532 I feel you, I went through this too and I can relate to your experience. A guy I went on a date started molesting me and I did not say anything, I froze. I talked to him like nothing happened after that. It happened again on a 2nd date that I went with him to, I could not process what happened. He wa eventually angry that I did not reciprocate or acknowledge what happened, I froze and had no reaction again. Pretending like nothing happened and moving on was how ABA taught me to respond to someone. He was eventually the one to cut me off. I have many examples like this, like at work I say ok and do whatever anyone tells me to. I wish this did not happen to you and I can take that away from you.
I was in ABA recently… I got called “high functioning” a lot which is one of many things that was… I am also chronically ill and when I didn’t stand up and go change rooms or simply stand up because they said to (yes, they had me do that just because I didn’t for my mom either) and sometimes I was physically incapable of doing so even when I wanted to and I wanted to be good, it caused so much frustration and my mom still uses the techniques and my brother goes to it still. At one point I was in shut down and feeling miserable and they forced me around the facility, keep in mind I am old enough to be on youtube legally and am overweight for my age and height. They used two people to move me while I was incapable of talking and moving.
I used to be very verbal but I can’t mask during shutdown and that has happened around people recently and so they thought that I have started faking shutdowns and nonverbal episodes so they would call it my “no talking game” or for shutdowns I was just being noncompliant. Which when they would do things it would shut me down more.
I also fit the criteria for PDA which is under the ASD umbrella so it’s not in the DSM-V so I am not diagnosed, just align. So I would shut down when no choices were presented.
The icing on the cake is that the facility itself wasn’t the high school, it was a clinic full of screaming kids and lots of kids stimming vocally and loudly at once (I am okie with the stimming it just can be overwhelming at times). I had to watch as kids would get into fights with other kids because they didn’t get along and the therapists would have to break it up, and when they considered a kid “aggressive” or “noncompliant” they would physically use multiple people and forcefully take them to an isolated padded room. The way they tried to teach me social skills was to just “go up and introduce myself and ask an engaging question” when someone was available, turns out that doesn’t result in strong bonds.
Anyway, yeah, I knew ABA was bad originally, my mom convinced me it was good, I went, I have more trauma than I had previously and now hate ABA
I was in a program like that for high school but never diagnosed with anything other than “emotionally disturbed” and even when I got straight As for two years and never had any behavioral issues at all, they would never release me from the program, solely because I couldn’t maintain eye contact. Other than that, my mask was perfect! They threw me in the padded room all the time, for breaking eye contact. The only other time I got in trouble was when I somehow acknowledged a “take down” event, where they would physically tackle and restrain a “disobedient” student. We were all supposed to carry on as if nothing was happening, but sometimes I would cover my eyes or my ears- and then I would get in trouble
I still keep thinking about you because it breaks my heart to think of you, being forced to go to a place like that. It's barbaric, that places like that still exist. I know everything you explained is true, and more, and worse. I'm still deeply traumatized by what I endured through 4 years of high school. I tried so hard, to be perfect so they would have no excuse to keep me. They never even mentioned eye contact until I was dumbfounded to learn that I would not be granted "reintegration" to the normal school for my senior year. After straight As and absolute compliance for my entire junior year!?! They abused me and mentally tortured me, and it's devastating to know that they still carry on this way with the next generation. I'm so very sorry that you are enduring this. I'm sure your parents just don't comprehend how awful that environment is for folks like us. They just want to help you... I hope they will realize how wrong it is and get you out of there.
So sorry to hear you'r in this situation.
@@thesincitymama I'm so sorry you went through that. You deserve so much better and i hope you're healing from this ):
I would consider going no contact with your very controling very toxic mother at some point.
I have a friend who, although she was not then diagnosed with autism, has a brother who is autistic. She often used to go with him to his 'treatment' sessions and according to her- "I think they knew I was autistic because they'd stop me from stimming." They stopped her from stimming by physically holding her arms to her body. They forced her to eat textures that repulsed her over and over and over and now she has lasting trauma from it. This kind of 'therapy' doesn't work. It doesn't do anything but make life harder for autistics than it already is. And it's already hard enough.
This is one of the reasons that I feel grateful that I wasn't diagnosed before I got my own autonomy. Because that could have well been me. I got lucky. But it still hurts to hear about this.
Autistic or not I honestly can’t see why any child would enjoy something like this. I certainly wouldn’t and hated when other people who I didn’t trust or know well, or others who I wouldn’t want to touch me, would touch me. I don’t even understand what’s going on in the videos and why but either way it’s so messed up to see. I empathize with anyone who’s ever been in a situation like this
did you draw your pfp? it’s so pretty!
@@merrymermaid yeah I did, thank you :)
if anyone were seen treating any child (either ND or NT) like that, it would be called abuse. its manipulative, aggressive, scary, and unneeded. it shouldnt be legal to treat any human like this
23:24
"if you teach children that they are not in charge of themselves, other people will be in charge of your children"
im going to be thinking about this for the rest of my life
As a mom, NOBODY WILL BE TOUCHING MY CHILD LIKE THIS. my kid isn’t autistic but still it doesn’t make a difference if they are or aren’t, you don’t lay your fucking hands on kids like this. This seems super weird and invasive.
As sr pelo once said..
DONT TOUCH DA CHILD
THANK YOU. Don't touch children in general!
Ur a good mom ❤ also it’s just basically teaching these children it’s ok for strangers to touch them without consent, which is basically a jackpot for p3dophiles
The part about raising your voice pissed me off because not only is it disrespectful, it’s less effective because activating someone’s fight or flight response by yelling at them takes the focus away from the content of what you’re trying to say because being spoken to that can feel very threatening
Thanks so much for sharing and commenting on my "Calming Strategies for Autism" music therapy video! I am so very happy that you found so many positive things about it! That means so much to me!!! Grateful, Ryan
Thank you for being such a wonderful therapist, Ryan. The world needs more like you!
@@knov314 You're so very welcome!
I'm in college now going to teach primarily autistic individuals.
This is why when I teach, I will allow the child to lead how they want to learn and if they need help, they can ask. If something isn't working for them, then I will respect that and work alongside the student to help them figure what helps them, not what adults THINK what works.
Sometimes adults can give accomodations that can actually hinder someone's learning. Which is why I will allow the kid to learn through their naturalistic learning styles. If they don't understand an accommodation, I'll explain to them how it works and if they think it will work for them, then we'll give it a try.
@@kaishawna3753 "a perspective on today's ABA" Dr. Greg Hanley.
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks
I've read the website you've shared and according to Dr. Greg Hanley ABA is in direct violation of the principles of behaviourism and is describing the "humanistic approach" which is not scientific as it is subjective.
"That which is championed is establishing trust, engagement, authenticity, and agency."
Behaviourism does not allow agency which is why it's defined as "deterministic", anything which includes the acceptance of agency violates the rules of science meaning it is not scientific.
I agree with Dr. Greg Hanley, the humanistic approach is the approach I desire even though it is not scientific. While I agree with Dr. Hanley, you keep disagreeing with him with your claim that we are all subjects to reinforcers, you can't be subject to reinforcers and have agency at the same time.
If you do what Dr. Hanley wrote on the site you shared, ABA has been proven falsehood and wiped out proving you always were wrong just as all the other scientists and autistic people always said.
If reinforcers determine your actions as behaviourism claims, you don't have agency and Skinner himself said freewill is just an illusion.
What a coincidence! I was just suggesting to a family member who works within ABA therapy that they look into what autistic voices have to say about it! Thanks for the video Paige!
Edit: I also LOVE the hair!
Did you send them this? I'm always so curious about what aba therapists think about these kinds of videos
Most ABA techs are kids in college to earn extra money. You get certified in a month. They leave the job after they graduate.. they get zero education on what autism is.. they also don't do this as an passion... Some kids need OT and speech language pathology (and most don't need that), but they never get that because the system pushes every parent to ABA.
When I was a kid, those emotional cards with faces on them was something all kids saw at school. Took me until I hit puberty to realize I could have MORE THAN ONE FEELING AT ONCE. Can you imagine??
I am currently in the field as a behavior therapist (working my way up to speech pathology). I have had trouble conforming to ABA practices and have been in a space where I feel like certain "programs" I am running with my clients are a complete waste of time and do nothing to help in their everyday lives. With a very heavy heart, I feel as though I have been traumatizing children. And it very much feels like training an animal rather than a human being. We either need to do better or nothing at all, if all its going to do is cause trauma, discomfort, and confusion. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think this needs to be talked about more. Especially with individuals who are entering the field and receiving training.