A true teacher is not someone who knows everything...A true teacher is who knows how to get the answers. YOU are a true teacher for me and a joy to watch all your lessons. I only wish I would have discovered you before I bought my nightmare laser. For the same money I paid I could have gotten a much better designed laser like yours. (mine had the worm screws to lift the table with installed 9mm out of the vertical and no way to adjust them as well as just clamps to hold the laser tube down) Finally after about 6 weeks I got it running thanks a lot to your lessons. Still needs a lot of improvements to be done and all the tests to see where the laser performs best. I have taught computer lessons on local TV and I know a true teacher when I see one.
Hi Thanks for your kind words. For ME to learn this technology I need to break it down into simple understandable (and rememberable) elements. I have spent many years designing and fault finding equipment. Solving these sorts of problems is bliss for me. I have often had to show others how to fix problems. You cannot fix problems with BS you need simple understandable elements to build on because no two problems are the same. Never fear writing if you need advice. This far away I can only help YOU solve the problems, my arms and ears are not that long. Best wishes Russ
I have been searching for this tutorial, saw it some years ago but have only just bought my laser cutter 80w. Cut programme created, let's see what tomorrow brings 🙂
Hi I have moved on a bit from this now and if you tube allows the link here is a very short video of what I do now. czcams.com/video/R6Wqn5-HMzM/video.html Best wishes Russ
Great videos. They've helped me a quite a bit. When you have the dialog up to set the power and speed, rather than hitting "ok" try clicking on the next color in the left hand column. I'm using the most recent version that Thunder Laser has posted on their site which does works with my 7050 model laser.
+robbie ayers Hi Robbie, Thought I answered your comment but it appears to have gone!! Thanks for your comments and support. I'm on V8.00.25 What left hand column????? OH.... THAT LEFT-HAND COLUMN!!!!!!! My first excuse is my big nose got in the way. My second is it was hidden behind my stupidity. Shamed, but thankful for your help Russ
Hello Russ. Very informative videos, i really enjoy your way of explaining things. About layer window, little scroll bar will magically appear on the right when you add more layers. At least, it does on version 6.0.44. Edit: I just checked, if you undock layer window, it will become resizeable aswell
+Anton Prekul Thanks Anton. Both you and Robbie have made me realise how sometimes you can be absolutely blind to the obvious. I much appreciate the kind words and the public humiliation!! Big smile. Russ
I have version 8.00.27 and I can't get a scroll bar in the layer window even if it's undocked. however. if I double click to edit a layer I can then see all of the colors on the left of the new window. you can see the colors at 7:46 when he clicks the black layer.
Much better way excellent .. I had forgotten the Y could be disabled !!!!! .. Do you think the act of doing the burn going through all the mirrors affects the result? Meaning that if the mirrors decrease in efficiency as the power goes up that it might not all be in the tube? I wonder this, as techs I've seen on larger machines do this by removing the mirror and the shoot the test piece directly or perhaps use one mirror before the piece. hmmm ...
+guinnesspeaks Hi When techs do this mode burn for "proper " machines they are checking for the alignment of the reflecting mirrors in the tube. The sort of tubes you get in industrial machines allow you to set the internal mirrors to get the best shape power distribution in the beam. Ideally you are trying to obtain a nice even conical power distribution in the form of a bell curve or Gaussian curve. You do not need the influence of mirrors to upset trying to set this characteristic. Sadly you do not have the option to play with the mode in these sealed glass lasers. The ends of the tube are ground parallel and the mirrors are glued in place with epoxy. Crude but obviously effective (most of the time). Because acrylic evaporates in proportion to the IR energy hitting it, the damage it does to a block of acrylic is a fantastic and simple way to see just how your power is distributed across the 6mm beam. You can test the beam directly out of the tube and after each mirror to see where you are losing power or getting beam distortion. So the purpose of this use of acrylic is not to SET the mode but to check how the mode / beam shape changes after 3 mirrors. If it's oval there is a good chance you are clipping the edge of a mirror (most likely mirror 3)as they are nearly all designed with that mirror centre low (don't ask me why). It also shows you the relative power characteristic of your machine. It is no real indicator of absolute power but should clearly demonstrate why you get little benefit from using more than 60 or 65% power setting. This use of acrylic is about the only useful thing I brought across from industry. Measuring absolute power from these machines is desirable but impossible to do without purchasing a piece of fairly expensive kit This is all explained further into the series. Thanks for your comments. Best regards Russ
One more thought .. I haven't seen you investigate this... and I am not saying that you should at all. I think you might be interested however. But my side hobby/biz was repairing computers. I learned a lot about power supplies. I noticed over the years that they are not created equal. They may be rated the same but they come from countries with different standards, and that the higher some are taxed, they will peak and diminish in output. They have different heat sinks, coils etc. They rate differently at peak power, and indeed how long they provide it. Chinese are notorious for lying about their product in this manner. Another thing I noticed is that a good power supply feels like a brick, the crappy ones more like a tin can.
+guinnesspeaks Hi Power supplies for these machines are beyond my comprehension. I communicate with a guy in USA who is a wizard with power supplies. I had several questions about my original power supply which he tried to help me with He informed me that HV power supplies to control these tubes are a breed apart and there is a lot of black art that each manufacturer employs. There are those who are good and those who just are. I'm not an electronics expert and the only thing I know about HV equipment is that I know nothing, so I pay it great respect. I do know that the power supply that I now have with my 60 watt tube is superb. It's reliable and predictable and has been manufactured by the same people that made the tube, hence I expect they have been well matched. I agree about Chinese specifications but after much research when buying my new tube, I was pleasantly surprised to find a Chinese company that did NOT lie about their products, produced something that was well documented and of high quality and were easy to communicate with. Thanks again for your comments Russ
Energy passing to and through the tube may be clipping rather than smooth or at different rates than expected ... causing stress on the tube? Much like they rate a 40 watt tube at 50 .. the same might be happening with the power supply or the quality of one of it's legs?
Are you getting the same results from the new laser tube? I'm going to have to try some tests at lower power settings. Even at low speeds I've had troubles cutting through .25 inch plywood using higher power settings (90%).
+Rob Weinstein OOps. As you have seen. I wrecked my first tube by believing that more % meant more power. I hope I have now done enough demos to show that these machines do not have a linear power output, it drops off rapidly at about 60% and after that you are just "over-revving" your engine. The purpose of this test was to benchmark my new tube and graphically display its power characteristic without recourse to any complex equipment. As it happens I have a power meter on it's way to me and I will then be able to put absolute wattage values to my graph. Now that I have fitted an ammeter I absolutely know that 65% is the max current recommended for the tube and the only time I exceed it is whilst doing these few tests. I have a good contact in USA who has purchased the power meter on my behalf. Before shipping it to me he tested his own 60watt machine and found that he was getting just about 50 watts max at about 65- 70%. There was no extra gain between 70 and 90%I am anticipating my machine will turn out to be actually 40 watts. I have not cut 6.5mm ply but I have easily cut 4mm 3ply at 10mm/sec 65%. I suspect I could cut your thickness at 3 to 5mm/s
+SarbarMultimedia yes. I read enough before making my purchase that I've always assumed it to be closer to 40 watts. I would never have guessed (or even thought to have tested) that the output is non linear or worse. Amazing that it actually drops off with higher output settings. Thanks so much for putting your engineering skills to this problem. It will help all who watch to get the most out of our machines.
+Rob Weinstein Something I didn't mention. I noticed that running my machine for at 90% was great for up to 30seconds and after that the power dropped off rapidly.A couple of fellow users who obviously know a lot more about the physics of laser tubes than myself, informed me that is a typical characteristic when the gas mix breaks down and no longer lases properly. Rest it for a few minutes and the gas recovers so that you will repeat the cycle. Whereas at lower current inputs (say 65% power) the gas never becomes unstable and you get consistent results.
Hmmm Interesting. Seems like a Power meter would make life easier :) How does the look? Any LInks? And how or where do you connect them to measure the power? Is it actually the laser beams power it is measuring, or is it measuring how much power it get from the PSU or.....?
Hi Klaus Power meters can be expensive.You can buy a US digital power probe for $800 or an analogue one for $400. You can also go to www.bell-laser.com/?gclid=CJvxv5Cx1M0CFRFmGwodJBIJdg#!product-page/c1iym/1cd1a226-cf6b-7b63-26a7-2d551eb6821a and buy a cheap Chinese copy. (I tried one and failed) I spent a lot of effort trying to work out why my tube was not performing well. From my acrylic mode burn tests I could see that things were not very good and although such tests tell you all sorts of data about the beam it cannot tell you about absolute power, just comparative levels. I tried making my own crude calorimeter without much real success and I eventually had to buy a power meter to find out what was really going on. czcams.com/video/DrbQdIAQl4s/video.html After several months of using it many people advised me it was just and overpriced meat thermometer and that they were off to make their own copy..Many tried and all failed. Why? well thats explained in czcams.com/video/lO9rWlobLZU/video.html I'm sure that after this you will understand a whole lot more. Best regards Russ
A true teacher is not someone who knows everything...A true teacher is who knows how to get the answers. YOU are a true teacher for me and a joy to watch all your lessons. I only wish I would have discovered you before I bought my nightmare laser. For the same money I paid I could have gotten a much better designed laser like yours. (mine had the worm screws to lift the table with installed 9mm out of the vertical and no way to adjust them as well as just clamps to hold the laser tube down) Finally after about 6 weeks I got it running thanks a lot to your lessons. Still needs a lot of improvements to be done and all the tests to see where the laser performs best. I have taught computer lessons on local TV and I know a true teacher when I see one.
Hi
Thanks for your kind words. For ME to learn this technology I need to break it down into simple understandable (and rememberable) elements. I have spent many years designing and fault finding equipment. Solving these sorts of problems is bliss for me. I have often had to show others how to fix problems. You cannot fix problems with BS you need simple understandable elements to build on because no two problems are the same. Never fear writing if you need advice. This far away I can only help YOU solve the problems, my arms and ears are not that long.
Best wishes
Russ
I have been searching for this tutorial, saw it some years ago but have only just bought my laser cutter 80w. Cut programme created, let's see what tomorrow brings 🙂
Hi
I have moved on a bit from this now and if you tube allows the link here is a very short video of what I do now.
czcams.com/video/R6Wqn5-HMzM/video.html
Best wishes
Russ
If you click on one color in the Work tab, you can use the arrows on your keyboard to move up and down for longer lists. Hope this helps!
+NFO Sec
It's been there all the time .....my stupidity just got in the way. Thanks.
Great videos. They've helped me a quite a bit. When you have the dialog up to set the power and speed, rather than hitting "ok" try clicking on the next color in the left hand column. I'm using the most recent version that Thunder Laser has posted on their site which does works with my 7050 model laser.
+robbie ayers
Hi Robbie, Thought I answered your comment but it appears to have gone!!
Thanks for your comments and support. I'm on V8.00.25
What left hand column????? OH.... THAT LEFT-HAND COLUMN!!!!!!! My first excuse is my big nose got in the way. My second is it was hidden behind my stupidity. Shamed, but thankful for your help
Russ
Hello Russ. Very informative videos, i really enjoy your way of explaining things. About layer window, little scroll bar will magically appear on the right when you add more layers. At least, it does on version 6.0.44. Edit: I just checked, if you undock layer window, it will become resizeable aswell
+Anton Prekul
Thanks Anton. Both you and Robbie have made me realise how sometimes you can be absolutely blind to the obvious. I much appreciate the kind words and the public humiliation!! Big smile.
Russ
every owner of one of these Chinese lasers should go through this exercise.
This was the best video yet
I have version 8.00.27 and I can't get a scroll bar in the layer window even if it's undocked. however. if I double click to edit a layer I can then see all of the colors on the left of the new window. you can see the colors at 7:46 when he clicks the black layer.
+2020tesla
Hi Dwayne
It's sad that I cannot see the obvious. I feel a bit embarrassed at missing that!!!
Much better way excellent .. I had forgotten the Y could be disabled !!!!! .. Do you think the act of doing the burn going through all the mirrors affects the result?
Meaning that if the mirrors decrease in efficiency as the power goes up that it might not all be in the tube?
I wonder this, as techs I've seen on larger machines do this by removing the mirror and the shoot the test piece directly or perhaps use one mirror before the piece. hmmm ...
+guinnesspeaks
Hi
When techs do this mode burn for "proper " machines they are checking for the alignment of the reflecting mirrors in the tube. The sort of tubes you get in industrial machines allow you to set the internal mirrors to get the best shape power distribution in the beam. Ideally you are trying to obtain a nice even conical power distribution in the form of a bell curve or Gaussian curve. You do not need the influence of mirrors to upset trying to set this characteristic. Sadly you do not have the option to play with the mode in these sealed glass lasers. The ends of the tube are ground parallel and the mirrors are glued in place with epoxy. Crude but obviously effective (most of the time). Because acrylic evaporates in proportion to the IR energy hitting it, the damage it does to a block of acrylic is a fantastic and simple way to see just how your power is distributed across the 6mm beam. You can test the beam directly out of the tube and after each mirror to see where you are losing power or getting beam distortion. So the purpose of this use of acrylic is not to SET the mode but to check how the mode / beam shape changes after 3 mirrors. If it's oval there is a good chance you are clipping the edge of a mirror (most likely mirror 3)as they are nearly all designed with that mirror centre low (don't ask me why). It also shows you the relative power characteristic of your machine. It is no real indicator of absolute power but should clearly demonstrate why you get little benefit from using more than 60 or 65% power setting. This use of acrylic is about the only useful thing I brought across from industry.
Measuring absolute power from these machines is desirable but impossible to do without purchasing a piece of fairly expensive kit This is all explained further into the series.
Thanks for your comments.
Best regards
Russ
I understand your line of thinking on this ...
Thanks for your response.
One more thought .. I haven't seen you investigate this... and I am not saying that you should at all. I think you might be interested however.
But my side hobby/biz was repairing computers.
I learned a lot about power supplies. I noticed over the years that they are not created equal.
They may be rated the same but they come from countries with different standards, and that the higher some are taxed, they will peak and diminish in output. They have different heat sinks, coils etc. They rate differently at peak power, and indeed how long they provide it. Chinese are notorious for lying about their product in this manner.
Another thing I noticed is that a good power supply feels like a brick, the crappy ones more like a tin can.
+guinnesspeaks
Hi
Power supplies for these machines are beyond my comprehension. I communicate with a guy in USA who is a wizard with power supplies. I had several questions about my original power supply which he tried to help me with
He informed me that HV power supplies to control these tubes are a breed apart and there is a lot of black art that each manufacturer employs. There are those who are good and those who just are. I'm not an electronics expert and the only thing I know about HV equipment is that I know nothing, so I pay it great respect.
I do know that the power supply that I now have with my 60 watt tube is superb. It's reliable and predictable and has been manufactured by the same people that made the tube, hence I expect they have been well matched. I agree about Chinese specifications but after much research when buying my new tube, I was pleasantly surprised to find a Chinese company that did NOT lie about their products, produced something that was well documented and of high quality and were easy to communicate with.
Thanks again for your comments
Russ
Energy passing to and through the tube may be clipping rather than smooth or at different rates than expected ... causing stress on the tube?
Much like they rate a 40 watt tube at 50 .. the same might be happening with the power supply or the quality of one of it's legs?
I so appreciate you!
Are you getting the same results from the new laser tube? I'm going to have to try some tests at lower power settings. Even at low speeds I've had troubles cutting through .25 inch plywood using higher power settings (90%).
+Rob Weinstein
OOps. As you have seen. I wrecked my first tube by believing that more % meant more power. I hope I have now done enough demos to show that these machines do not have a linear power output, it drops off rapidly at about 60% and after that you are just "over-revving" your engine. The purpose of this test was to benchmark my new tube and graphically display its power characteristic without recourse to any complex equipment. As it happens I have a power meter on it's way to me and I will then be able to put absolute wattage values to my graph. Now that I have fitted an ammeter I absolutely know that 65% is the max current recommended for the tube and the only time I exceed it is whilst doing these few tests. I have a good contact in USA who has purchased the power meter on my behalf. Before shipping it to me he tested his own 60watt machine and found that he was getting just about 50 watts max at about 65- 70%. There was no extra gain between 70 and 90%I am anticipating my machine will turn out to be actually 40 watts. I have not cut 6.5mm ply but I have easily cut 4mm 3ply at 10mm/sec 65%. I suspect I could cut your thickness at 3 to 5mm/s
+SarbarMultimedia yes. I read enough before making my purchase that I've always assumed it to be closer to 40 watts. I would never have guessed (or even thought to have tested) that the output is non linear or worse. Amazing that it actually drops off with higher output settings.
Thanks so much for putting your engineering skills to this problem. It will help all who watch to get the most out of our machines.
+Rob Weinstein Something I didn't mention. I noticed that running my machine for at 90% was great for up to 30seconds and after that the power dropped off rapidly.A couple of fellow users who obviously know a lot more about the physics of laser tubes than myself, informed me that is a typical characteristic when the gas mix breaks down and no longer lases properly. Rest it for a few minutes and the gas recovers so that you will repeat the cycle. Whereas at lower current inputs (say 65% power) the gas never becomes unstable and you get consistent results.
Hmmm Interesting. Seems like a Power meter would make life easier :) How does the look? Any LInks? And how or where do you connect them to measure the power? Is it actually the laser beams power it is measuring, or is it measuring how much power it get from the PSU or.....?
Hi Klaus
Power meters can be expensive.You can buy a US digital power probe for $800 or an analogue one for $400.
You can also go to
www.bell-laser.com/?gclid=CJvxv5Cx1M0CFRFmGwodJBIJdg#!product-page/c1iym/1cd1a226-cf6b-7b63-26a7-2d551eb6821a and buy a cheap Chinese copy. (I tried one and failed)
I spent a lot of effort trying to work out why my tube was not performing well. From my acrylic mode burn tests I could see that things were not very good and although such tests tell you all sorts of data about the beam it cannot tell you about absolute power, just comparative levels. I tried making my own crude calorimeter without much real success and I eventually had to buy a power meter to find out what was really going on.
czcams.com/video/DrbQdIAQl4s/video.html
After several months of using it many people advised me it was just and overpriced meat thermometer and that they were off to make their own copy..Many tried and all failed. Why? well thats explained in
czcams.com/video/lO9rWlobLZU/video.html
I'm sure that after this you will understand a whole lot more.
Best regards
Russ