@@seltzertronics2538If I only have 2 fronts and 2 surrounds (no center channel speaker), am I right in thinking the "width" control knob should be turned counterclockwise all the way?
I really like your channel and your way of explaining things! I think in this world where no one seems to be able to maintain focus for more than 3 seconds, it makes me appreciate longform informational content like this so much more! Subscribed!
Great video. You did well explaining in more detail what the knobs are actually doing! This confirms what I am hearing but couldn't put in to words. I am using SYN with a outlaw 5ch amp for a Magnepan Tri-center setup. Pretty sure I cant go back to plain 2 channel anymore. I also completely agree about wanting a full tilt Freya size version with a multibit card, XLR out, and a few more inputs. SYN is great, SYN+ would be bananas
I bet that rig sounds fantastic. Glad to meet another Synner. I definitely hope that more people get a chance to hear what's possible with analog upmixing. A Freya-sized version would be fantastic. My hunch is that Schiit knew people were going to be confused about this, so they sort of bundled it with some gamer/headphone features they thought might expand the potential market. But I think really it's not a replacement for an AVR or Pre/Pro, it's a replacement for an analog preamp.
Thank you so much for your review here. I have been a custom home theater builder for years now, and I’ve gone through all phases of belief as far as the requirement for DSP and a certain number of speakers for true immersion… nowadays, bottom line is, there is a tool for every job. Syn is the perfect tool for adding surround to my office system whereas I don’t know that I could replace it with my Anthem ARC Genesis tuned system in my main room for movies. Like you mentioned, it’s an amazing replacement for a preamp, maybe not so for a dedicated AVR system.
I have a very small family room and love my vintage Sansui and I would like one to be able to add rear surrounds for a 4.1 setup for movies and streaming music and leave the Sansui for true stereo as I can just get a splitter to go into the amp section and bypass the preamp in the receiver. That said, I’m not a normal use case. The new MRC SLM looks nice too but I wish it had preouts instead of an amp.
You are the only reviewer that has been able to articulate how amazing this piece of gear is. I was neck deep into my two-channel journey when I discovered the SYN. It shattered and shifted my music listening paradigm. My desktop system has strangely become my main system and I couldn't be happier. Using 4 Adam Audio T8V/T5V speakers for the front/rear L and R. My center channel is an Elac Uni-Fi UC52, powered by a Aiyima A07 Max. The subwoofer is an RSL Speedwoofer 10S. I've done my own right up on the SYN, and feel obligated to evangelize people into the experience.
Great review. Thanks for sharing your experience. I saw today that Schitt is working on a 5-channel amp to go with the Syn. I am looking for a physically small AVR for my living room to add rear surround speakers. The Syn might be a good option to update my Topping E50 / Dayton Audio 2. amplifier system, but if I go with the Syn I need to figure out the amplifiers as I have a passive sub-woofer...
Ahhh so this is a replacement for an avr not a companion piece thanks for the video this unit had me confused thought I could upgrade my avr with it but it’s something to use on its own with an amp.
Man this unit is seriously made for me. I heard about it at introduction but kind of forgot about it because I've been looking down the rabbit hole for a DAC/ streamer upgrade. I still have a fully analog rig and not just any analog, but one specifically designed for the glory days of SACD and DVD Audio-- we're talking the awesome Multi-K highly coveted Audio Research Multi-channel MP1 preamp that blows the doors off of pretty much anything out there in SQ. This is fed by an Oppo 205 that has modified to play my SACD image files--with no slouch of a DAC on its own using the Sabre Pro. Finally, it all runs through a Cary Cinema 5 brute of an amp. I used to have McCormick / Conrad Johnson preamp gear which had the ARM circuit that made a very convincing six-channel output from two channels... but the MP1 does not offer that. What it -*-does-*- offer is an absolute paradise of analog connections-- not two but THREE sets of full analog multi-channel inputs (the third of which includes a balanced option which is currently used by my Oppo)... and what used to be called a "tape out" dual RCA. So conceivably with that playground of connections, I could take the tape out feed from my MP1 into the SYN and then use its multi-channel analog out to go back into one of the two remaining multi-channel inputs of the MP1. That means *anything* that goes to the preamp I could listen to with the Syn enhanced processing just by choosing that input on the front panel. That should be a lot better than just the ARM circuit i had before. With my setup, I can't believe I haven't ordered it up to now :) One more thing: with this setup, I may not have any use for my Zektor MAS 7.1 so I may sell that and get a good bit towsrds the cost of the Syn---it may be even more coveted than the AR preamp. Anyone in the analog world is probably going to know what that device is :) Lastly: I take it you're very happy with that Gustard R26 ladder DAC?
i have one. i use two fosi v3s for mains and surrounds and a small fosi mono amp for the center. i love it. i will often and just a bit of audible surround on music, with no center, especially good with music with some long synth notes, and you get a nice larger musical sphere around you.
Absolutely. That's definitely what sold me on the Syn, right? Not everything needs the full multichannel mix treatment. Just a bit of surround really opens up the stage. And they way they did it is pretty cool. Negative "width" basically substracts what's common between L and R. This isn't super useful for L and R, but that's also how the surrounds work. Basically the the surround channels are just fully substracted L and R content with a bit of noise shaping. One speaker configuration you could play with is putting the surrounds wide instead of behind. It will be more like traditional stereo, but massive width.
This was amazing information for me! After many years, I recently upgraded my home hi-fi system. NOW...I learned about this and I have questions. I have 4 speakers and a Sub. I just bought a Cambridge CXA61 amp with built-in DAC, a Cambridge CXC CD transport, and a Cambridge Phono pre-amp. CAN I STILL USE THE SYN? OR, do I need to send any of the aforementioned pieces of equipment back? Thank you for opening my eyes (I think)
A Sennheiser GSX1000/1200 or the same but new name version "EPOS" is the way to go if you want headphone surround. It's really good. HRTF. It creates a very good 360 degree sound field. You can set the width as well.
I tried to participate in the discussion on ASR about this device but man there are some toxic people over on that site! An area I think a device like this is useful is if you like vintage audio equipment. I have a Sansui Eight that I adore and I either want to try this with a couple separate small amps for some surrounds or maybe even try to grab a quadraphonic amp.
with movies....minor tweaking and you get very good surround experience....when the volume way is up anyway and with rooms of various reflective qualities, i find the syn to handle all types of cinema excellently. more dialog oriented show,,,slighty boost the center. space battles....widen things out a bit and raise surround gain.
Hi, thanks for the review. I'm completely new to all this and thinking about getting a 5.1 system and starting from scratch. In your summary you recommended getting a multichannel amplifier and some passives. This confused me as I thought that is what the Syn is for. Would you be so kind to clear this up for me?
How's the experience on the center speaker/channel particularly on movie dialogues? Most of the movies now has loud background sound / music but soft dialogue in stereo systems. Will syn improves the dialogue?
Thank you for this review and introduction of the syn. Mine will be arriving soon... My question right now is have you tried it without a center and if so what are your impressions?
That's a good question! I think you'll be just fine. Unlike native multichannel, you actually have the center imaged content embedded in your left and right channels. You'll obviously want to keep the center channel at 0, but the rears will open up just fine. The L and R will still generate the "phantom center" that they always do, as they are essentially still just doing stereo. So it should be like "upmixed" quadrophonic.
@@S.G.N.713 Thank you... I've been playing with my Syn close to a month now. This is a great product. I do second your comments. No need for a center as of now as my main use is for music and secondary for movies. It will not blow your socks off for video content but the ease of use, the knowledge that this product will not be outdated, it's analog side application and it's good quality function as a preamp makes this a very good product.
The cross-feed features sound especially interesting to me. I just wish companies like Schiit and Topping would just make it a feature along with EQ in their DACs. I’ll wait and see what they come up with for this year, but if there’s nothing really new in terms of features, I might have to consider a ridiculous Schiit stack with a bunch of knobs on it lol
Well, I'm not sure that's the way I'd think about it. Remember that the Syn is doing its work in analog, so the term "processing" doesn't really mean the same thing as it means in a digital domain, like a MiniDSP. The nice thing about a Syn is that it allows you to take any line-level analog signal you want and upmix it to 5.1. If some DSP is what helps you get the analog signal you want, then it may be worth it. I can't really speculate too specifically tho. If the MiniDSP SHD is doing some room correction, it's hard to say how that might come through on a Syn. I'd think that it will probably retain some of the benefits of the room correction, but other stuff might be weird. You now have more speakers in different places, and that's going to impact acoustics. The bass especially could be funky. What you might do is try running the SHD's room analyzer tool through the Syn, so it can at least take into account any new room reflections, standing waves, etc that emerge in 5.1 playback but not 2.0.
Thank you for this exhaustive review. I'd like to have your opinion before I make up my mind to buy it. Main use case being watching movies that are mostly 5.1 or 7.1 Dolby, and my speaker setup is only left+center+right, no sub no surround. Would the Schiit Syn still be an ideal replacement for my AV processor?
Hi there. Thanks for watching. So with the Syn you'll not want to use Dolby. If you're using a streamer/set top box/Smart TV/etc you'll want to be sure that you're getting a clean, stereo (2-channel) output. What the Syn will do for you is extract (imperfectly but quite well) out of the L and R channels and present them on your center channel. I think this does enrich your cinematic experience, even without rear channels and a sub. However, note that two stereo speakers in a room also do a decent job creating a so-called "phantom center", that will still sort of sound as if it was coming from a center channel. So I suppose it depends on what you're alternatives are. Tell me more about your use case. What equipment are you using? What's your room configuration?
Thanks for the reply. My setup now is a Zidoo movie player that outputs two channel to an integrated amplifier to power a stereo speaker set. Since I found out the necessity of a center channel for dialogs in most movies, I added an AV processor in-between the movie player and the amp. The AV processor is quite a chunk so once I saw the compact-sized Syn I decided to look into the possibility of replacing the AV processor. Music : Movie is 50:50 in my house so if the Syn can handle both well I'll be thrilled.@@seltzertronics2538
@@rockroll9513 Been playing with it for a few weeks, my surround speakers arent quite set up correctly but its an amazing device. I just watched the new "Joker" Trailer on youtube and its amazing how good media sounds on this device....Im saving my pennies now in order to add a second hand Yggy dac or Bifrost 2/64 so it can sound even better. Im using Audio Engine A5 for left/right an Edifier stereo center channel speaker and Audio engine A2's for surrounds and generic sub. Sounds great... highly recommend it. The headphone feature is "okay" but i dont really use it anyways as i have a balanced dac/amp set up already.
It's absurdly expensive. for what it costs the S#%iit Syn here in Europe. I have been able to buy the following this weekend; 2 Fosi v3(new), a pair of Elac B6.2 (also new) and a second-hand pre-processor with up to 7.1 capabilities. I was tempted to buy an AV receiver but they seemed too junky to me. But I'm commenting on this because all of this came from thinking about this S#*% and how well explained it was in this video. I actually was very close to buying a Schiit Syn and a Loky in the same order. I may buy a Syn in the future if the price drops or if someone else has the idea of making a compact pre-processor. But in Europe it costs €560, you have to add at least €200 in amplifiers. For that amount you find a good receiver.
Oof €560. I think the upmixing capability of the Syn will beat the DTS:X and ProLogic implementations in most AVRs, but at that price I admit it's a tall ask.
It should have kept the low past filter, which should have been an implicit high pass filter to all other devices. I.e., set 80hz and below to sub, then implicitly 80hz and above goes to all other channels. Simple, easy, one dial... if set to zero is turned off. As is, it requires adding some kind of crossover device between the unit and the speakers. That's annoying, given that modern AVRs have adjustable LPF/HPF.
Thanks for going into depth on the Syn...Other reviewers on youtube failed to hit the mark.
Awesome! That's what I was going for. I felt like there was a lot of confusion over this device, and was happy to have the opportunity to review it.
@@seltzertronics2538please review the nobsound 5.1 and compare. It's half the price - would be interesting if performance was similar. Thanks
@@seltzertronics2538If I only have 2 fronts and 2 surrounds (no center channel speaker), am I right in thinking the "width" control knob should be turned counterclockwise all the way?
I really like your channel and your way of explaining things! I think in this world where no one seems to be able to maintain focus for more than 3 seconds, it makes me appreciate longform informational content like this so much more! Subscribed!
Great video. You did well explaining in more detail what the knobs are actually doing! This confirms what I am hearing but couldn't put in to words. I am using SYN with a outlaw 5ch amp for a Magnepan Tri-center setup. Pretty sure I cant go back to plain 2 channel anymore. I also completely agree about wanting a full tilt Freya size version with a multibit card, XLR out, and a few more inputs. SYN is great, SYN+ would be bananas
I bet that rig sounds fantastic. Glad to meet another Synner. I definitely hope that more people get a chance to hear what's possible with analog upmixing. A Freya-sized version would be fantastic. My hunch is that Schiit knew people were going to be confused about this, so they sort of bundled it with some gamer/headphone features they thought might expand the potential market. But I think really it's not a replacement for an AVR or Pre/Pro, it's a replacement for an analog preamp.
Thank you so much for your review here. I have been a custom home theater builder for years now, and I’ve gone through all phases of belief as far as the requirement for DSP and a certain number of speakers for true immersion… nowadays, bottom line is, there is a tool for every job. Syn is the perfect tool for adding surround to my office system whereas I don’t know that I could replace it with my Anthem ARC Genesis tuned system in my main room for movies. Like you mentioned, it’s an amazing replacement for a preamp, maybe not so for a dedicated AVR system.
I have a very small family room and love my vintage Sansui and I would like one to be able to add rear surrounds for a 4.1 setup for movies and streaming music and leave the Sansui for true stereo as I can just get a splitter to go into the amp section and bypass the preamp in the receiver.
That said, I’m not a normal use case.
The new MRC SLM looks nice too but I wish it had preouts instead of an amp.
Great video. I’ve been on the fence for a few weeks on the Syn or an AVR. I’ll order it tonight. Thanks!
Fantastic work! Very in-depth
You are the only reviewer that has been able to articulate how amazing this piece of gear is. I was neck deep into my two-channel journey when I discovered the SYN. It shattered and shifted my music listening paradigm. My desktop system has strangely become my main system and I couldn't be happier. Using 4 Adam Audio T8V/T5V speakers for the front/rear L and R. My center channel is an Elac Uni-Fi UC52, powered by a Aiyima A07 Max. The subwoofer is an RSL Speedwoofer 10S.
I've done my own right up on the SYN, and feel obligated to evangelize people into the experience.
Great review! Good to see you back!
Hey, thanks!
This is one of those products that are so cool, I dont even know how I will use it but I really want it lol.
Great video Tron
Fantastic review, fascinating device. Thanks.
Great review. Thanks for sharing your experience. I saw today that Schitt is working on a 5-channel amp to go with the Syn. I am looking for a physically small AVR for my living room to add rear surround speakers. The Syn might be a good option to update my Topping E50 / Dayton Audio 2. amplifier system, but if I go with the Syn I need to figure out the amplifiers as I have a passive sub-woofer...
Imagine Shatner doing a 43 minute Syn monologue... JK, great video man.
Ahhh so this is a replacement for an avr not a companion piece thanks for the video this unit had me confused thought I could upgrade my avr with it but it’s something to use on its own with an amp.
Man this unit is seriously made for me. I heard about it at introduction but kind of forgot about it because I've been looking down the rabbit hole for a DAC/ streamer upgrade. I still have a fully analog rig and not just any analog, but one specifically designed for the glory days of SACD and DVD Audio-- we're talking the awesome Multi-K highly coveted Audio Research Multi-channel MP1 preamp that blows the doors off of pretty much anything out there in SQ. This is fed by an Oppo 205 that has modified to play my SACD image files--with no slouch of a DAC on its own using the Sabre Pro. Finally, it all runs through a Cary Cinema 5 brute of an amp. I used to have McCormick / Conrad Johnson preamp gear which had the ARM circuit that made a very convincing six-channel output from two channels... but the MP1 does not offer that. What it -*-does-*- offer is an absolute paradise of analog connections-- not two but THREE sets of full analog multi-channel inputs (the third of which includes a balanced option which is currently used by my Oppo)... and what used to be called a "tape out" dual RCA.
So conceivably with that playground of connections, I could take the tape out feed from my MP1 into the SYN and then use its multi-channel analog out to go back into one of the two remaining multi-channel inputs of the MP1. That means *anything* that goes to the preamp I could listen to with the Syn enhanced processing just by choosing that input on the front panel. That should be a lot better than just the ARM circuit i had before.
With my setup, I can't believe I haven't ordered it up to now :)
One more thing: with this setup, I may not have any use for my Zektor MAS 7.1 so I may sell that and get a good bit towsrds the cost of the Syn---it may be even more coveted than the AR preamp. Anyone in the analog world is probably going to know what that device is :)
Lastly: I take it you're very happy with that Gustard R26 ladder DAC?
i have one. i use two fosi v3s for mains and surrounds and a small fosi mono amp for the center. i love it. i will often and just a bit of audible surround on music, with no center, especially good with music with some long synth notes, and you get a nice larger musical sphere around you.
Absolutely. That's definitely what sold me on the Syn, right? Not everything needs the full multichannel mix treatment. Just a bit of surround really opens up the stage. And they way they did it is pretty cool. Negative "width" basically substracts what's common between L and R. This isn't super useful for L and R, but that's also how the surrounds work. Basically the the surround channels are just fully substracted L and R content with a bit of noise shaping. One speaker configuration you could play with is putting the surrounds wide instead of behind. It will be more like traditional stereo, but massive width.
This was amazing information for me! After many years, I recently upgraded my home hi-fi system. NOW...I learned about this and I have questions. I have 4 speakers and a Sub. I just bought a Cambridge CXA61 amp with built-in DAC, a Cambridge CXC CD transport, and a Cambridge Phono pre-amp. CAN I STILL USE THE SYN? OR, do I need to send any of the aforementioned pieces of equipment back? Thank you for opening my eyes (I think)
how do you wire up a sub and center channel on the back using the same outputs?
A Sennheiser GSX1000/1200 or the same but new name version "EPOS" is the way to go if you want headphone surround. It's really good. HRTF. It creates a very good 360 degree sound field. You can set the width as well.
I tried to participate in the discussion on ASR about this device but man there are some toxic people over on that site!
An area I think a device like this is useful is if you like vintage audio equipment. I have a Sansui Eight that I adore and I either want to try this with a couple separate small amps for some surrounds or maybe even try to grab a quadraphonic amp.
with movies....minor tweaking and you get very good surround experience....when the volume way is up anyway and with rooms of various reflective qualities, i find the syn to handle all types of cinema excellently. more dialog oriented show,,,slighty boost the center. space battles....widen things out a bit and raise surround gain.
Totally agree! It does a surprisingly good job. And the ability to fine tune it on the fly really helps.
does it work without the use of a center?
Hi, thanks for the review. I'm completely new to all this and thinking about getting a 5.1 system and starting from scratch. In your summary you recommended getting a multichannel amplifier and some passives. This confused me as I thought that is what the Syn is for. Would you be so kind to clear this up for me?
Great review. Are the surrounds in mono, or stereo?
How's the experience on the center speaker/channel particularly on movie dialogues? Most of the movies now has loud background sound / music but soft dialogue in stereo systems. Will syn improves the dialogue?
Thank you for this review and introduction of the syn. Mine will be arriving soon... My question right now is have you tried it without a center and if so what are your impressions?
That's a good question! I think you'll be just fine. Unlike native multichannel, you actually have the center imaged content embedded in your left and right channels. You'll obviously want to keep the center channel at 0, but the rears will open up just fine. The L and R will still generate the "phantom center" that they always do, as they are essentially still just doing stereo. So it should be like "upmixed" quadrophonic.
@@seltzertronics2538 thank you so much for your reply... More power to you!
I am running my SYN in 2.1 and 4.1 (for immersive sound) and love it! Dialogue is clear. No center channel needed yet....
@@S.G.N.713 Thank you... I've been playing with my Syn close to a month now. This is a great product. I do second your comments. No need for a center as of now as my main use is for music and secondary for movies. It will not blow your socks off for video content but the ease of use, the knowledge that this product will not be outdated, it's analog side application and it's good quality function as a preamp makes this a very good product.
The cross-feed features sound especially interesting to me. I just wish companies like Schiit and Topping would just make it a feature along with EQ in their DACs. I’ll wait and see what they come up with for this year, but if there’s nothing really new in terms of features, I might have to consider a ridiculous Schiit stack with a bunch of knobs on it lol
I have the sony bluray player that plays SACDs and think pair that dvd player with the syn would be awesome,
The stereo outputs of that SACD player will serve nicely as a source for the Syn.
I am thinking of getting a MiniDSP SHD as a dac/streamer/dsp and also using a SYN. Would this be too much processing?
Well, I'm not sure that's the way I'd think about it. Remember that the Syn is doing its work in analog, so the term "processing" doesn't really mean the same thing as it means in a digital domain, like a MiniDSP. The nice thing about a Syn is that it allows you to take any line-level analog signal you want and upmix it to 5.1. If some DSP is what helps you get the analog signal you want, then it may be worth it.
I can't really speculate too specifically tho. If the MiniDSP SHD is doing some room correction, it's hard to say how that might come through on a Syn. I'd think that it will probably retain some of the benefits of the room correction, but other stuff might be weird. You now have more speakers in different places, and that's going to impact acoustics. The bass especially could be funky.
What you might do is try running the SHD's room analyzer tool through the Syn, so it can at least take into account any new room reflections, standing waves, etc that emerge in 5.1 playback but not 2.0.
Thank you for this exhaustive review. I'd like to have your opinion before I make up my mind to buy it. Main use case being watching movies that are mostly 5.1 or 7.1 Dolby, and my speaker setup is only left+center+right, no sub no surround. Would the Schiit Syn still be an ideal replacement for my AV processor?
Hi there. Thanks for watching. So with the Syn you'll not want to use Dolby. If you're using a streamer/set top box/Smart TV/etc you'll want to be sure that you're getting a clean, stereo (2-channel) output. What the Syn will do for you is extract (imperfectly but quite well) out of the L and R channels and present them on your center channel. I think this does enrich your cinematic experience, even without rear channels and a sub.
However, note that two stereo speakers in a room also do a decent job creating a so-called "phantom center", that will still sort of sound as if it was coming from a center channel. So I suppose it depends on what you're alternatives are. Tell me more about your use case. What equipment are you using? What's your room configuration?
Thanks for the reply.
My setup now is a Zidoo movie player that outputs two channel to an integrated amplifier to power a stereo speaker set. Since I found out the necessity of a center channel for dialogs in most movies, I added an AV processor in-between the movie player and the amp. The AV processor is quite a chunk so once I saw the compact-sized Syn I decided to look into the possibility of replacing the AV processor. Music : Movie is 50:50 in my house so if the Syn can handle both well I'll be thrilled.@@seltzertronics2538
Do I need an AV reciever or can I just plug my tv and output it to my 5.1 speaker system?
No need for an AVR! Just run optical directly from your TV into the Syn!
Would it be possible to get a demo video of this device? there's nothing out there in this regard.
I just ordered one, hopefully i love it!
@@MastRk Le us know if you like it
@@rockroll9513 Been playing with it for a few weeks, my surround speakers arent quite set up correctly but its an amazing device. I just watched the new "Joker" Trailer on youtube and its amazing how good media sounds on this device....Im saving my pennies now in order to add a second hand Yggy dac or Bifrost 2/64 so it can sound even better. Im using Audio Engine A5 for left/right an Edifier stereo center channel speaker and Audio engine A2's for surrounds and generic sub. Sounds great... highly recommend it. The headphone feature is "okay" but i dont really use it anyways as i have a balanced dac/amp set up already.
It's absurdly expensive. for what it costs the S#%iit Syn here in Europe. I have been able to buy the following this weekend; 2 Fosi v3(new), a pair of Elac B6.2 (also new) and a second-hand pre-processor with up to 7.1 capabilities. I was tempted to buy an AV receiver but they seemed too junky to me. But I'm commenting on this because all of this came from thinking about this S#*% and how well explained it was in this video. I actually was very close to buying a Schiit Syn and a Loky in the same order.
I may buy a Syn in the future if the price drops or if someone else has the idea of making a compact pre-processor. But in Europe it costs €560, you have to add at least €200 in amplifiers. For that amount you find a good receiver.
Oof €560. I think the upmixing capability of the Syn will beat the DTS:X and ProLogic implementations in most AVRs, but at that price I admit it's a tall ask.
Maybe an HDMI ?
It should have kept the low past filter, which should have been an implicit high pass filter to all other devices. I.e., set 80hz and below to sub, then implicitly 80hz and above goes to all other channels. Simple, easy, one dial... if set to zero is turned off. As is, it requires adding some kind of crossover device between the unit and the speakers. That's annoying, given that modern AVRs have adjustable LPF/HPF.
All the hoopla about the syn died down.....what are people saying about it today?
I love it so damn much