What is the range of Sting's Orc-radar?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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"Yes I know it's super niche and nerdy even for me but bear with me"
Oh I'm all here for it buddy
Yep. I have a hard time figuring out something more nerdy, but I love it! :D
Exactly
Saaame, I heard that, and made myself a tea I was so pleased.
Exactly. I love this type of content and I love this video. Reminds me of people estimating Jesus' height by description: bigger than a baby and smaller than a temple. Excellent.
"Yes I know it's super niche and nerdy even for me but bear with me"
Sir this is a LOTR lore analysis channel, this is literally what all of us craving for lmao
Literal definition of "in deep geek"
4:56 ...sang, of course...
That made me laugh out loud.
One interesting fact is that after Thorin’s death in the hobbit, they laid Orcrist on his tomb to give the dwarves warning about impending orc attacks. This definitely implies at least that Orcrist had an orc radar range of several miles and was more effective than existing lookout positions that would no doubt have been able to see farther than that.
Patrol would probably see armies or warband, but Orcrist could also warn against lone spies or digging.
That would definitely make sense. Glamdring is more sensitive than Sting and Glamdring and Orcrist are both at similar level of craftsmanship. Sting is described as a small dagger by elf standards and it certainly doesn't have the pedigree of the others.
It is worth noting that Bilbo's assessment that dim light means "not very near, but not far enough" could just be that he saw Glamdring glowing brightly before, and is thus concluding that a dim glow says they're in the area, but not in the room with him. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make.
I take the two parts of the sentence to be interpreted separately:
Not very near: it's not shining so brightly as when they're very close
Not far enough: it's still glowing at all, Bilbo would rather the sword was completely normal-looking at that point.
As in, the second part is less about measurement, and more about Bilbo's fears and woes.
@@Radditz770I agree. His response is more likely Bilbo-specific than exact situation specific. I think his preferred location of orc is nowhere and his preferred amount of orc is zero.
@@Radditz770 yeah, that's more or less what I was going for. For Bilbo, a hobbit of no significant martial skill, he'd probably rather the goblins/orcs be as far away as conceivably possible, and Sting's faint glow indicates that's very much not the case.
Yeah, video took this part WAY too literally, it's just 100% fearful guessing, not any sort of accurate measure...
I think Bilbo meant that Sting was glowing at all meant the goblins were to close for his liking.
This week's title made me laugh out loud, but when we got to the D&D MAP I grinned like a fool. Nice work.
Same :D
Nice
In The Hobbit, it says that The Lonely Mountain couldn’t be taken by surprise because Orcrist glowed whenever enemies approached. Surely the distance from Thorin’s tomb to outside of the lonely mountain is longer than a mile, but as mentioned, Glamdring (and by extension Orcrist) seem to be more sensitive than Sting.
It could also be that Glamdring was a channel for Gandalf supernatural powers so was more sensitive that way.
Possibly Orcrist being set in one place for an extended period was more attuned to the local signal enivronment and could detect Orcs at longer range as a result.
The dwarves had better wifi.
Maybe Goblins effect it more than Uruks.
Because the elf swords were built to detect corrupted elves.
Not Orc/man hybrids.
@@ieuanhunt552 absolutely he was. Good things happen to things when an angel is holding them.
There's a small complication here. The sword probably glows brighter the more Orcs there are as well, so it's going to be a function of distance and number.
Incidentally, my friend played an Orc in a D&D campaign who found a sword that glowed when it works were nearby. He picked it up and used it as his main weapon, and he named it "The Sword that Never Stops Glowing." It did radiant damage.
It may glow based on intent... a pursuant orc may glow brighter, and a dead or fleeing orc may glow softer...
I was going to say much the same thing.
A single orc 200 yards away is one level of brightness. But a hundred orcs who are 200 yards from Sting would be something else altogether.
That’s some interesting character development. An orc who conquers elvish steel.
That's actually a really cool scenario. Repurposing Elvish steel to essentially be a free light source as long as it's wielded by an Orc is one of those interesting synergies that comes from deep and imaginative lore.
waited 11 long minutes to have him never bring this up
I would say there are 2 more things to consider:
1) How many orcs: i could imagine, the swords might pick up a whole group from a mile away, while a single orc might only be noticed from a few hundred meters away.
2) What about obstacles: whatever it is that the blade reacts to, may it be an aura of orcish malice or anything, chances are, it would be dimmer if there are either obstacles in the way. So, it could be that it shines dimly with orcs a mile away when in open ground at amon hen, but in Bilbo's case in Moria it might be much less distance for the same brightness, similar to 1).
If we try to take a scientific look at the topic, no matter what we compare it to - gravity, electromagnetic/acoustic waves, thermodynamics, hydrodynamics and so on, it would make sense that the propagation is dependant on how many/strong sources there are, and how the path looks like (dampening, reflections, etc.). There are so many factors that would make it physically immersive - and yes, i know, that would me more of an hard magic system, but it wouldnt surprise it if Tolkien would have liked to take inspiration in nature for questions like these.
What we can definitely say though, is, no matter how effective the swords are, the range/intensity should be chosen reasonably by the craftsmen for the purpose. I would neither want a sword glowing like the sun when orcs are even 10km away, nor would i want one glowing dimly with orcs closer than a hundred meters. I think, if it detects a single orc from 500m, a smaller group from a mile away and a large army from 2-5km away, that would sound just about right to be as practical as it can get. This way, it would start glowing when you should be wary of the situation, and will glow stronger, the larger the danger becomes
Fair points!
I'd say only something that can negatively affect elven magic would count as an obstacle. But I do believe that the blade is brighter when they are more orcs.
It may be that we're slightly over thinking this one... 😂
Both the sam and aragorn references at 1 mile are singular or at least small numbers of orcs. Aragorn reckons on a spy or two at that distance. Also, if numbers were a factor sting would probably be relatively bright at the tower, due to the number of orcs generally in Mordor.
@@funkyschnitzelNEVER!!!! (lol)
Orcdar!
Just as I’ve always surmised. Upon seeing the title I thought “hold on, didn’t Aragorn and Frodo use Sting to get an approximate distance once? And Aragorn should know pretty well how to read one of those blades”.
And as a side note, I always thought that the intensity of Sting when Sam had it was that’s because it’s how the *Orc* perceived it (similar to how the light from the phial burned Shelob’s eyes), in addition to the visual possibly being influenced by his holding the One Ring, similar to how the Orcs thought he was a huge and powerful warrior when they first saw him.
Same here, because if it was that bright for non-Orcs, the wielders of such weapons would have been blinded by their own swords.
@@minibro73 Which honestly makes sense. If you are sneaking up on a goblin camp, you don't want to telegraph your position, _but_ blinding your light-sensitive enemies is a great bonus!
Image having to be so precise in your world building that when a bunch of nerds looking into the range of a glowing sword is undebatable.
I think it's the other way round. *If* you are that good in your world-building, you risk attracting such a crowd (in addition to the usual bunch of serious academics who study world-class literature in depth anyway).
If, on the other hand, your world-building is sloppier, that simply won't happen, no matter whether the lower-quality books you churn out suffice to pay your bills - or aren't good enough even for that. 🙂
3:48 oh wow, that's a cool depiction of Moria. I love the way they showed the passages rooting into the lodes.
Things I didn't know I needed to know.
My personal headcanon was that Idril commissioned Sting for the then 7 year old Earendil, as the kings grandson his sword would have been made in the kings smithy. Probably was never delivered since her tunnel wasn't fully finished when the attack came and was still in the tower of the king, so if Glamdring was found with Sting in the troll cave, it was likely that they where picked up together.
My headcannon is that Sting always had it's equal partner long dagger, for whatever elf had Sting commissioned to have a partner for it to it to dual wield, and they were more powerful together. Maybe it was simply stuck in a corpse in the lands swallowed up by the ocean when the Valar got pissy about exploits in their rules.
A weapon that glows seems like a bit of a liability when fighting an enemy that shuns daylight. It alerts you to the presence of orcs but doesn't tell you where they are on the other hand the orc could see the glow from a distance giving away your position.
Yes, but it also blinds the orcs/does some degree of "radiant damaged", based on Shagrat's reaction
Today, both you and GirlNext Gondor are covering LotR topics I've never heard anyone cover before. 😃 It's nice - I'm always happy to hear the eagles debate or about Galadriel's gifts but these are refreshing in thier novelty.
Robert, this is possibly your best video, or at least your most nerdy which is basically synonymous with "best." The level of detail and respect for source material is exemplary of your channel and of the very best content on the platform!
Now this is truly in deep geek in the literal sense!
Sting's range is exactly what the story needs it to be at all times. Nonetheless, l watched this all the way through.
That was very good meta gaming into a soft magic system. I loved it, and it makes perfect sense to me.
"That's how Sting's orcdar works..."
Bet it took a few takes to get it right 😂
This really is the best LOTR content on youtube
I don't care if this is a rabbit hole or "too geeky". I wouldn't be watching every single video you post if I wasn't enraptured by the amount of detail you put into everything!
I have to admit….
No way did I think you’d be able to make a quality video on this subject. Well done, sir!
What's the significance of the color coding of the wizards? Like Gandalf the white/grey, Saruman the white, Radagast the Brown and the Blue wizards.
Saruman was the white because he was the chief of Wizards and supposed to lead the charge of good. Gandalf is the gray as he is a wanderer with no home who comes and goes as he pleases, as if in the gray mist. He becomes the white when he replaces Saruman after returning with greater power. Radagast is the brown because he was of Yavanna and tied to the beasts and birds in the woods. The blue wizards are blue because they vanished over the horizon under the blue sky.
I find it a bit of an issue that at ~1km, Aragorn is merely "wary," with no urgency to waking the fellowship and taking off early. That's just a few minutes' walk. Maybe you're not assuming they're walking straight towards the fellowship, that they're perhaps carefully searching... But that IS an assumption I would make, were I responsible for the safety of my companions. Especially considering the possibility that they may be running, as we saw in the movies. That's just a couple minutes away, and waking up can take time.
sure but then the light would change, and Frodo now being alerted would be watching it@@kenrfc
It is not too big deal - if shines = orc(s) are nearby, but cannot see them or hear them yet and they are not near enough. It can easily be a stray orc or two hunting for food and sniffinc on the other side of the river. Having the sword out would easily serve as a sonar, an "orcdar" as named - once it would start glowing more intensely, it would absolutely mean raising silent alarm, readying for defense and preparing quick withdrawal into nearby ships.
And remember, Aragorn can hear really well, Legolas has godlike senses as well and they have a place and means to provide fighting retreat if necessary. No need to wake up rest of the group if orcdar doesn´t show any progress in terms of it´s light growing.
You've got to remember that this isn't nice roads with clear obvious areas that people would stop at.
They're searching while also moving through uncleared hilly forestry at night time, it's going to slow them down immensely.
That said, the distance is still far too close for my liking for an unknown number of enemies from an unknown direction.
I guess you could argue that Aragorn trusts himself and Legolas to sense them before they're dangerously close and/or he has some knowledge/skill that lets him judge their distance and direction to some extent.
BUT personally I think it works better if the range is 4-5 greater than the conclusion in the video.
E.g. if Aragorn can tell from the brightness that they're at least 2km away (or greater) then his reaction seems more reasonable to me because it significantly reduces the odds of them stumbling upon them, which is a genuine risk at the distance speculated in the video.
I’ve never even thought of a “nearness” meter related to Sting’s brightness!!! Good one, Robert!!!
So you never read the books.
@@theeffete3396 Read them multiple times but some details just get lost in the action. I tend to look at the “big picture” . (Read LOTR, Hobbit, Silmarillion plus others- so not a novice. ) As Robert said in the intro, he “needed out & went down a rabbit hole on this one”!!!
It may be worth mentioning that - as the author of the video said himself - orcs were blinded by this light. I believe that the main function of this light was not to warn the user of the presence of orcs but to blind those orcs when in battle. It just started shining earlier, so you could use it as a "radar", but it was a secondary function. Primarily, it was a weapon.
Nah man, that was the perfect amount of nerdy and niche. I’m all here for technical stuff and you literally answered a question I have had for years. thanks!!!
Yes, nerdy even for you LOL. Love it!
I love this video! I love that IDG would even think to cover this. This is exactly the kind of deep background lore analysis that made me fall in love with this channel! Keep it coming Robert! 👌🏾
You geek out and dive down all the rabbit holes you choose.😊 I love this stuff!
A topic truly worthy of the channel's name
An hour after posting, this video already has over four thousand views! That's pretty amazing!
Thanks dad love ya
Best IDG comment
Idgi
I will never tire of these videos, having now watched every video you have on LOTR I have resorted to going at them again from the beginning. For one, I find your voice extremely calming, your scripts are great and then the content is always interesting! I would never have thought to think about the glow of Sting but I'm 1000% here for it.
Todays video was very nerdy indeed! But I loved the rigor and depth of the dive, you made my day IDG thanks
On the Geek Scale, this video shines very brightly.
Your brilliance shines brightly once again!!!
I think you're about right. I also appreciate translations from the Shadow's (imperial) scale into one more friendly to the Free People's (metric).
There are two kinds of countries in the world:
Countries who use metric...
And countries who have put a man on the moon!
Cheers! 😀
@@Rick_KingAww, American Exceptionalism is so cute. (Pats head and gives cookie.)
@@thing_under_the_stairs What kind of cookie?
@@Rick_King Just made a fresh batch of ginger cookies yesterday, from my granny's recipe. They're over there in her antique cookie jar, the one that looks like a homicidal teddy bear. Wash your hands before you take one!
And then there's the people who butchered a mars rover landing because the calculations were done in metric and the instruments read imperial
Thanks for doing what you do InDeepGeek (Robert). My entire interest in the LOTR Tolkien lore is because of YOU. Your vids got me interested, and now I have all the books by Tolkien (the Silmarlion and now even the Histories of Middle Earth) plus I'm making a special LOTRs shelf to put all the books on. I work at a lumberyard in America, and am basically skilled at carpentry, enough to make a shelf anyways. I'm painting a 1/4 luan (thin plywood) backside of Mordor with the tower of Bara'dur and Mt. Doom for the backside of the shelf.
7:41 "Hobbity line" xD
I don't think I've ever heard you start a video with a disclaimer like that, Robert. I'm gonna grab the popcorn for this one
I don't usually leave comments, but I love your videos.
My mother read The Hobbit and the trilogy to us as kids a chapter a night at bedtime. So basically I grew up with these characters.
While I am familiar with the Hobbit and the Trilogy, I have never read the other works or appendices. I actually found reading Tolkien a little bit difficult because of his use of language being..... not old English, but I had to stop and think while reading it to understand what was being conveyed. This was when I was a little older than the young girl I was when my mom read the stories to us.
The strength of the story and the obvious narrative kept me engaged even though I didn't understand half of what was being read to me by my mother.
I don't even feel badly about not having read all of that extra material because I found your videos. You've taken care of all of that for me. Thank you.
It is amazing how you tied all these references together to draw a conclusion. Even more amazing, the references didn't contradict each other which means Tolkien had thought this through as well.
On your first point, I think it's far more in character for Bilbo to not know that a dimer glow means there are Goblins "Close but not too close" but rather he's being whisful. He's saying "There are goblins nearby, and I wish there were not."
I think the issue of what is supposed to be a weapon glowing bright blue when near the enemy is a significant problem from a tactical and stealth standpoint.
It has a sheath. Shouldn't be a problem if you want to stay hidden. However, knowing the enemy is near when you weren't already aware would be a huge tactical advantage.
The Orc-glowing blades were forged by the Noldor, High Elves who were on average much more powerful than Orcs and probably wouldn't usually be hiding from them. The glow struck fear into their enemies when they saw it, so it was a psychological weapon as well.
for stealth just sheathe it
Love the video, especially when you dive into the really niche aspects that aren’t normally talked about. Discovered your channel a few months ago and have been listening to the LOTR playlist on shuffle everyday on my drive to work, and really perks up my day.
Keep up the good work my dude
Your explanation fits with my guesswork from 40 years ago.
I reckon we can both feel smug 😂😂😂❤😂😂😂
You should feel smaug.
@@MCowie I suspect that I wouldn't live to tell that tale, somehow! 🤣🤣🤣
"super niche and nerdy" is why I'm subscribed
I rather think that Shagrat’s response to the light is because it is intrinsically painful to orc eyes, not that it is overwhelmingly bright. Else the swordplay in the misty mountains in the hobbit would have been SUPER BRIGHT. [EDIT for spelling.]
That is some masterful geek stuff - just perfect.
We will follow you through nearly any rabbit hole.
I think a lot of Aragorn’s acuity in most things can be chalked up to his being learned, wise, experienced and very clever.
Amazing consideration. It is a testament to Tolkien’s work that we can have nuanced conversations about it.
That's a question I've actually thought about. Thanks for the video !
That's the level of nerdism i love. Many thanks
I don't think it should be considered niche, I think it's a perfectly valid question and this video gives a very reasonable answer.
Nice video, I actually remember thinking about it.
Love from Brazil, I might find some time to translate and add subtitles to some of your videos😊
Oieee Santos !! Sou um gringo estado-unidense quem eh sempre tentando melhorar minha abilidade no idioma português. Could you recommend any good podcasts that are in português ? LoTR -related would be great, because knowing the topic helps get me past gaps in my vocabulary. (Adoro seu país !! 🙌🇧🇷)
I agree with the 1 mile total range, but I personally interpreted the text/scenes to mean that Sting measures the magnitude of the Orc threat. For example, Sting might be faint if there is a single, injured Orc nearby, but not in any position to be a threat. Or, Sting might show faintly if there is a mass orc army marching several miles away. Its interesting to note that Tolkien mentions that Hobbits have a natural way of remaining unseen (boosted by the ring), so orcs, even nearby or in number, won't measure as significant a threat to Sting in the hands of a hobbit in sneak mode.
Love the idea that you might not have been able to sleep if you hadn't reached a conclusion. You make me feel much less nerdy. Love your content!
Im re reading the Hobbit right now so this was perfect timing!! Thanks for another awesome video Robert!
Thats what were here for! To get deep into it!
nerdy things is all we love ! thanks for the video ! 😁
I do so love bringing soft science to a world with soft magic. It makes for a delightfully nerdy pairing
Starting with the premise that well crafted systems provide information that’s useful to the user, I would think that sensitivity/range would depend in part on the wielder’s interest in the proximity of orcs. It might be more sensitive for someone terrified of orcs than for someone for whom an orc is a nuisance.
Excellent video as always, I appreciate you creating this content.
Answering the questions we didn’t realise we need answered 😂
We love rabbit holes too mate
Excuse me Robert but I'll have to check my Sting before I can comfortably go to sleep. What a wonderful point to ponder, thank you very much.
Great video. Well done.
This is wonderful.
4:53 Sam: "sang a song, of course." 🤣
I love digging into the minutiae and theorycrafting answers to questions like this. Keep it up!
Very well done! Good reasoning and fun too!
Great question. I love how you ask things I never even wondered about and when I see the titel of the video I want to see it right away.
Love the rabbit hole videos!!
Yes, nerdy, BUT I WAS ACTUALLY JUST WONDERING ABOUT THIS TODAY!!!😂
This is exactly what I want from this channel.
Well done as always. Very thoughtful. I didn't realize I needed to know this, but now I do and it is good!
Splendid stuff
Awesome as always..
This really madey day! Your choice of words was perfect, this video was both hilarious and so interesting! Thanks Robert, love your content
I am delighted. Thank you for this scrumptious content.
Great plug for your live channel (hadn’t known) and thanks for separating. Makes watching the channel way cleaner
Quality content Robert.
Dang man! That was awesome!. Thanks
I read the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings for the first time many years ago before I really had very much comprehension. I seem to remember thinking Sting's "radar" was based on how much the goblin's presence actually threatened the wielder. Read it many times since and never really thought about this part, before. Thank you for the additional thoughts. Maybe it is time to read it again.
A most fair assessment!
Briliant deep dive, we need more of these! 😁
Nice work dude thanks
Yes, the geek here is quite deep. 😂 Love it
Love this analysis...so nerdy!!
Great analysis!
Fascinating video
An answer to a question I didn’t even know I was interested in. Thank you!
I love the Title. But seriously, great Video. Thank you ✌️
I don't wish to impact your sleep, but did you consider that perhaps the brightness varies with concentration of orcs as well as distance? With that factored in, we should consider the inverse square law as often used for radio wave and light intensity over distance
I have that Atlas! It makes me very happy to know I'm almost as Nerdy as Robert! (and I hope it makes Robert happy that I did enjoy this video!)