Growing Apple Trees for Fruit & Firewood | A Regenerative Orchard Experiment
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- čas přidán 17. 10. 2020
- Chris Evans from Applewood Permaculture Centre shows us his fascinating experiment where he's managing apple trees not just for fruit, but also for firewood. Applewood is used for a fantastic smokey aroma for all kinds of food and is wonderful firewood, however, it is really hard to come by and often originates from the awful destruction of old orchards.
Take a look at how Chris is experimenting with new plantings as well as coppicing and pollarding 25-year-old trees. This video is a supplement to his article in the winter 2020 edition of Permaculture Magazine: www.permaculture.co.uk/issue/...
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We hope you enjoy this wonderful project Chris Evans is doing at Applewood. Hopefully, in a few years time, we will revisit this to give you an update and find out the best way of growing apples for both fruit and wood. Next week's video will be another apple themed one!
For vigour grow apple seedlings from seed, which gives the tree a taproot, which does not exist when rootstock is used. The taproot provides additional resilience, drought proofing. Plant a dozen seedlings and Mother Nature will select the best genome for the particular soil type and environmental conditions for future grafting.
you're right Peter, that's another approach, though I would argue that well-grown grafted trees will also develop a tap root-type structure. For sure tap roots are important, especially for stability - it's why grafted trees (even on M25) will be more likely to fall over if top-heavy or on an unstable site and/or soil!
A rootstock does not have a taproot??
@@lukejones1244 most root stocks are grown from layered cuttings Luke, so develop more of a fibrous root system before any tap-root. One grown from seed will grow its tap root first or at least in conjunction with fibrous, lateral feeder roots.
@@ChrisEvansPermaculture Great explanation, thanks. I was also wondering how rootstocks are picked for certain qualities I guess the answer is, like the fruiting part - they are cloned.
You probably won't get dessert apples that way but if you only use them for cider or cooking then maybe they would be quicker that way and without the bother of grafting. Would they definitely be more vigorous than some rootstocks?
that's a great experiment, demonstrating an opportunity missed by most farmers in rejuvenating and making productive their hedges, instead of seeing hedges as an obstruction and drain on labour. I really like the integration of other productive plants into the orchard. Best wishes with this project.
Nice thinking!
I grew apples from pips and shoved them in a mixed hedgerow I planted across the top of my garden. The fruit is small, but there is no doubting the variety - green, a deadringer for (Braeburn, with all the taste of it too), and the deepest scarlet apple I've ever seen.
The trees themselves are very vigorous, as is a tree my son grew from a pip from a Cox's Orange Pippin. This tree grew true from seed, but doesn't produce many apples. Deer don't attack the tree itself (thank goodness), but they nick the apples nearly every year.
With regard to my other apples, it seems to me that deer have preferences for hybrids. They are a real pest around Jonagolds (I bought 8 because of the long storage life of the fruit), but don't seem to worry much else.
So far.
The cages around my apples are really inadequate compared to the ones in this video. I think I'm going to have to step up precautions a bit more.
I like to grow blackcurrants under trees. It seems to suit them well. I have blueberries and redcurrants in a hedge and they are doing well in that environment too.
Gooseberries are doing well under hazels, but they are a swine during pruning.
Deer seem to bother my cherry trees more than anything else (if they can get near them), and these make fine old coppice plants as a consequence. Several of my cherries have fought back and respawned after deer attack.
I'm looking forward to seeing Chris's feedback in a couple or three years of how this has worked. I planted apple trees in our hedges, so it might be a great way to reduce the shade to the plants below the trees and for them to be productive in more than one way.
now 3 years after and the trees are all fruiting, bramley, M25 and all! Growth of the bramley is greater than the M25 that's pretty obvious. I'm thinking of coppicing 1 of each this winter to see the response. The pollarded tree @6.58 is also growing really well at least 2 inch diameter branches.
Awesome! Thank you for sharing your project with us Chris!
We are glad you enjoyed this!
Very clear and informative. Big thanks. Glad we don't have deer here in the Conwy Valley, North Wales.
Really informative video and everything I needed to know about starting my mini orchard. Thanks for sharing.
Really interesting and informative! Thank you!
Beautiful aesthetically, beautiful in its practicality.
Loved
Nice video!
Nice experiment, intuitive aproach, looking forward to learn more. Thanks for the post!
now 3 years after and the trees are all fruiting, bramley, M25 and all! Growth of the bramley is greater than the M25 that's pretty obvious. I'm thinking of coppicing 1 of each this winter to see the response. The pollarded tree @6.58 is also growing really well at least 2 inch diameter branches.
@@himalayanpermaculturecentr4583 I think that is a great ideea! Cheers!
Pollarding at that height is good because you can work it from the ground, but if you have a nice straight growing tree you could do it higher to give you a valuable sawlog in the future. Of course, apple trees are often rotten by the time they come down. Very interesting project and idea!
The rotten trees are, in my experience, trimmed and grafted trees for fruit production. The wild grown apple trees that have started from seed and had not had the branches and tops cut or maintained in any way did not have a rotten trunk. The largest diameter was 35cm at waist height where it branched off into three. That was a standalone tree in a field. The apples that I have seen growing in a forests underbrush have nice straight and long (2m+) trunks but they are few and far between due to the local wildlife eating it given the chance. Live in Estonia so the climate is even harsher than in England.
@@modarkthemauler That makes sense, but without pruning/limbing up you're probably not going to get much useful timber from an apple tree!
@@Theorimlig Well yes, and no. You get more useful wood if you grow the trees close together so the natural competition forces the apple to grow straight up and as a result of the lower branches not getting light they die off on their own. Kind of like growing oak in coppiced hazelnut. The hazel forces the first part of the oak to grow straight up. Later on you do some limbing but not nearly as much as you would have to if you grew oak in 2m x 2m on a field with no competition from hazel.
so note, the main/desired output here is firewood not timber, so management is different
Great video! My question is - I prefer to keep the grass growing taller like you do from what I see but I have my orchard infested with common voles. The wire mesh does help but they also attack the roots. Any ideas on how to solve the trouble?
Wonder how quickly would apple trees bear fruits after coppicing?
Looking at 2-3 years
Bramley and M25 genius!
Looks like apple may be faster than willow.
How do you get the Bramleys pollinated ? It takes three other types of apple tree to pollinate.
Were those black currant I spied interplanted amongst your new apples? Am currently looking for efficient ways of interplanting and bulking up my currant population and would love to know the rhyme and reasoning. Thank you!
yes blackcurrant and redcurrant - they're taking their place in the shrub layer along with the perennial kales. Other plants will occupy other layers over time as it heads towards a fuller forest garden system
@@ChrisEvansPermaculture you have people on this video asking you things but you would never know because its not your channel, get a profile pic for your channel, reply to the comments on this video and any otherss you are in and get people to your channel, any questions just reply
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I just found this, can I subscribe to your magazine from Australia?
sure, postage will be more, or you could do an online (e-mag) subscription
Nice job
I see I'm late for commenting but I just left a comment on a site about willow and Hazel coppicing/pollarding for fire wood and was wondering if apple trees would be suitable. So this is interesting to me. Any update 3 years on?
now 3 years after and the trees are all fruiting, bramley, M25 and all! Growth of the bramley is greater than the M25 that's pretty obvious. I'm thinking of coppicing 1 of each this winter to see the response. The pollarded tree @6.58 is also growing really well at least 2 inch diameter branches.
Great idea, can you reccomend a source of bare root apple trees to plant out this winter?
Hi Steve, I am not sure what Chris would recommend and I will ask, however I know Tamar Organics sell a range of bare root apple trees. They start delivery in November. Thank you for watching.
@StrathbranSpeedshop1 sorry for the delay in replying! I get my rootstocks from Frank Matthews nursery near Tenbury (just 6 miles from home) - cheaper by the 100
Is it ok to leave weeds growing in thd first years of an apple tree. Please thank you. Lovely video by the way:))
the main "weed" that restricts young trees is grass, so a thick and wide mulch will stop that, as well as providing slow-release fertility and moisture conservation. But some wild plants can be companions - I haven't removed legumes such as medic, trefoil, vetch, etc. for example
@@ChrisEvansPermaculture reply
08:04 So these new twigs are normally called watersprouts? I'm new to this and taking care of my sisters apple trees. This is very interesting. Thanks. (Any follow up on this? What's it like now 2 years after?)
see above update
now 3 years after and the trees are all fruiting, bramley, M25 and all! Growth of the bramley is greater than the M25 that's pretty obvious. I'm thinking of coppicing 1 of each this winter to see the response. The pollarded tree @6.58 is also growing really well at least 2 inch diameter branches.
@@ChrisEvansPermaculture have you made an update video?
@@willhooke nope just some comments in the comments here. Am going to try cutting some of the stems this winter then hopefuly we'll see those re-sprout in the Spring
@@himalayanpermaculturecentr4583 excellent - thank you 👍🏻
Can you advise of a large growing Apple tree, one I want to use as a “skeleton” and graft multiple cultivars onto.
@anthonyburke5656 yes I can maybe advise - what's your question?
@@himalayanpermaculturecentr4583 the question is: “Can you tell me of a variety of Apple tree that grows large, is suitable as a root stock, has a low chill factor, that I can graft multiple varieties onto, with an aim of providing an extended harvesting period and aimed at providing a “host” tree/stock onto which I can graft mainly cider apples?”
@@anthonyburke5656 so why not use a regular vigorous rootstock like M25 or MM111? Otherwise, varieties like Bramley and Ashmeads Kernel will influence the rootstock to make a bigger tree e.g. grafting a Bramley/AK onto a MM111 can make it grow as big as a M25, or onto a M26 may make it grow as big as MM106. Ashmead's Kernel is such a lovely apple - multi-purpose and a great keeper. I would say that these 2 are suitable as a root stock, but then to produce them in the first place they will need to be grafted onto a root stock! (unless they're produced on their own roots - a process desctribed in the video) So the extended harvesting period will also be dependent on the varieties you graft onto whatever rootstock you use.
Anyone know if almond trees will respond to this high coppice/pollard? Almond wood is fantastic burning and our trees are old and big, I want to wean them off bore water, and interplant native guild of trees and nitrogen fixers. I am in Willunga South Australia. Cheers Jim
@James A - not heard of it but I guess it would work both coppice & pollard - again vigor may depend on what rootstock it's on - here in UK they use St. Julian A, in Nepal we have wild Almond we use to graft.
@@ChrisEvansPermaculture Ill try to find out the rootstock, thank you. I trialled 3 trees out of the 1200 just at the start of this winter, will see how the coming year goes.
🎉@@jamesofsuburbia1any update on how they are growing?
@@adelinawarriner6259 Very vigorous regrowth in the very next season, so much so they needed pruning by summer due to crossed branches and lots of competition,. I never did find out the rootstock but it was a success
It's been 3 years, what's the latest on this venture?
now 3 years after and the trees are all fruiting, bramley, M25 and all! Growth of the bramley is greater than the M25 that's pretty obvious. I'm thinking of coppicing 1 of each this winter to see the response. The pollarded tree @6.58 is also growing really well at least 2 inch diameter branches.
After the first year's growth, when do the apples appear on the pollarded tree.
we'll see - they didn't flower this season, not surprisingly, so next year at the earliest!
I would expect it to be 5-7 years before you start to get a good crop
also remember that with this system apples aren't the main output, firewood is, with apples as a "by-product". So in order to optimise biomass growth there may be a lower fruiting need, as fruiting takes a lot of energy. It's a question for now and something needing more research. Certainly I think that apple coppice will be more attractive if there's a fruit yield too.
@@ChrisEvansPermaculture Is the coppiced apple faster growing than willow?
@@lukejones1244 it depends! Age of the stool/tree? Variety of willow? It could be close, but there are some varieties of willow that would take a lot of beating. So I would say overall no, is the answer, but there could be exceptions.
Interesting experiment… further idea… why not just take Brantley cuttings from your trees , root them, grow them on and plant them… no need to buy sacrificial rootstocks😀Jinxy
they won't root from cuttings Jane - hence the need to graft them first
Is that bloody weedmat!!
@Owen Woodward
Owen Woodward
It's plastic made membrane Owen if that's what u mean. Not ideal I know - if I had the chance again (and still may do) I would use a biodegradable version. But 4 years later it's still doing a grass supression job and several types of interesting herb are still coming up in the cracks - trefoil, vetch and the like.
Can’t wait for election to be over so tired of the negative rhetoric garbage!