Barry Harris: Please Don't Click on 4
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2019
- Barry Harris, a jazz legend from the bop era, taught masterclasses at The Hague (Netherlands) between 1989-98. An amazing video collection of his teachings were compiled by Frans Elsen, an important Dutch pianist, arranger and educator.
Source for this video:
• Feeling the "and"
All other Barry videos:
/ barryharrisvideos - Hudba
Great points everyone and thanks for sharing your thoughts. For those who haven't watched the full workshop, context is important. Adding more footage for context would make my excerpt too long and derivative of the original on CZcams. I recommend watching the original (see description). In the full session, Barry was teaching the importance of starting phrases on the "and" (swing feel). I think it was buzzkill for him to hear a "square" click on 4 when he wanted them to feel the "and". His lack of explanation is amusing to me, and I actually find it endearing coming from a master with so much history (and baggage). Some people seem to take this too seriously. I have long shed idolatry for dogma coming from any experienced player. Heck, I would not take him too seriously if he *_demanded_* a click on 4! I like to see this, as I say in the intro, as _"let's try this SUGGESTION from Barry Harris..."_
"Some people seem to take this too seriously."
They're snowflakes.
The things that really grinds my gears here is how much rehearsal time he poured down the drain to complain about something that is literally just a personal preference. Those kids are paying a lot of money and effort into this don't waste their fucking time.
@@redcollard3586 He literally is joking about how his preference here is deeply subjective... it is one of his "detestations", he becomes a "raving maniac", etc.
@@arrell Correct. He wastes four minutes of rehearsal time rambling about it while the most educational thing he said was "don't play like that" and a fat lot of help that is.
@@redcollard3586 Whoosh!
His point is to not play the click on the four for the entire tune like many newbies do. The kid was doing in unrelentingly as though it's all he knew. Barry Harris is fairly adamant that all of these "rules" are tools for practice, and that they are to be abandoned for creativity when you play. If you consciously practice not clicking on 4, you'll only do it when you consciously want to, rather than doing it by default. It's like when you're learning to solo and they tell you to only play chord tones on strong beats: Bird clearly wasn't doing that all the time, but in order to play "like Bird" (ie, make the changes, not literally sound like a Bird clone), you have to be able to consciously depict the chord tones and actively choose whether you want them on strong or weak beats.
Exactly. This guy gets it.
100% agreed!
But he had only played about 16 bars before the ol grump decided to start waffling incoherently! The drummer was grooving beautifully & Harris just wanted to moan about something so that people would say 'wow, look how profound this guy is'..zzzz
@@jesperthorsson3586 lol 16 bars of the samr damned thing.
seemed pretty coherent to me.
whatd incoherent is your use of the term waffling
@@nathanreiber6819 I think you need to learn a thing or two about the art of the groove
I think he just wants the drummer to get out of the pattern for a moment. Everything else is just tongue in cheek.
You’re the only one who gets it.
Precisely.
Wrong
Yea I see that watching, but if I was that drummer I would be so confused and hurt lmao. Not saying Barry did wrong I j know how sensitive people can be when you’re on the spot.
This is what most jazz classes are like
I click on every video of him and I've never seen him that happy. Those kids were great
When you're trying to pass the class so you laugh at whatever the teacher says.
2:11
"They say I'm suicidal"
"Hahah"
Man he knew how amazing these videos would be 25 years in the future.. 😎
It'll take another few decades before all 9 billion people on earth can see it. So some poor idiot will be left wondering why a video from 50 years ago is being recommended.
He once told me in a workshop "not to play that half cut time, or he'd cut my head off and it would roll down the street"
“It ripples my rump.”
This video is missing a lot of context people! Harris had plenty of reason to say this as he was trying to expand the rhythmic capacity of the sound, and he even explains his reasoning. It's just meant to be a funny bite from the full video.
Ok, but THIS needs to be said! Because ist is not, I worte the comment as I wrote it.... Thx for explanation.
@@JoergB Of course. Can't discredit the master!
Right on, Rohan! Agree 100%! It seemed obvious to me right off, even viewing the little bit that I did.
Yeah, well, it’s not funny. Trying to get a laugh at the expense of the drummer’s feelings is an asswipe move. The guy’s a dickhead.
@@johnbuell8035 Wow ...
Barry must have liked that drummer, I’ve seen a number of videos where he gets on to him. The kid always smiles and listens instead of getting mad, like so many musicians would.
0:35 ... I love seeing people enjoy music.
Thanks for posting this! This man is a great educator of jazz history , harmony and composition. I've had many "lightbulb going off" moments sitting at his feet while in college. Thanks again✌
That SMILE
That smile is so pure
This was on the royal conservatory in the hague holland at Studio 4 I studied there in this period...this is the great Jeff van Veen on drums... played on a Outkast album;)... some legendary masterclasses around 1990-98
Those are some beautiful Gretsch drums.
Amazing lesson
Philly Joe Jones is a fkn Legend. One of the greatest, he could play that backbeat and his great licks whenever he wanted cause he's spot on.
Music loves Philly Joe Jones .
What a master! R.I.P Barry Harris
Barry is one of the great
I love this man
His smile ❤
the dude truely has a huge sense of humour!
Look at that smile. Great
You know you're about to hear something profound when someone says, "You know, they say I'm suicidal..."
I love Barry Harris, and these sessions are absolute gold for learning. However, when I listen to "I Was Doing Alright" by Dexter Gordon the accent on the 4 sounds perfect. Just my opinion.
Just listened. Barry would have died. I think it sounds good on faster tunes (like the above) to raise the swing a bit during a section. But that one you cited -- would have killed Barry. But I agree with you it sounds fine.
Thanks for putting me on
Barry the legend!!!!
was at a jazz club a few weeks ago and the drummer kept playing the rim on the 4, couldn't stop laughing thinking of this clip
Legend
mr. harris is so good that he doesn't even have to play - - he just gets everybody else in the right frame of mind to play
"How to have a good time" well worth learning-
What I heard Barry say and I may have to listen again is never a good idea to click on 4. Maybe this was a teaching moment but clicking on 4 works a tremendous amount of times when done appropriately.
Barry is so funny!
Crazy old dude ))
he's hilarious!
I've been listening to many of these Barry Harris coaching youtubes, and I have heard many brilliant things emanate from this great player and teacher. That said, I believe that this particular excerpt of the coaching session is a perfect example of what can go wrong in the "teaching" of any art form, especially a "live" performing art that is almost entirely improvised in most cases.
This great musician takes strong issue with a particular drum pattern, and if he was the leader (or just the one paying the other players at the end) of a gig, of course, one would simply leave out what he wants to be left out - no questions asked. But Mr. Harris does not give any reason whatsoever here, artistic, musical or otherwise. Instead he jokes at length about his shrink etc. and on and on... By the way, I have often heard teachers (inadvertently, I hope) abuse the naive trust of students by giving their personal opinion as a "rule" in sweeping condemnations of one thing or another that they don't "like", with weak explanations or worse: none.
I'm glad that he doesn't get mad or nasty, but these kind of comments within the course of "teaching" do a very great disservice to the students (including we youtubers) here and to the music, by having us imagining something like that this request (about no click on 4) is on a par with all his other truly inspired, reasonable, well thought out, non - judgemental suggestions on how to play better. It is certainly not, in my opinion...
ivoryconsort I’m with you 100%
Hey, Senor Consort. Good to see you here. Yes, his reaction was a bit strong (although, delivered in a lighthearted way) but perhaps he is referring more to the drummer relying - a little too much - on a "stock" pattern, rather than truly reacting to what the other players are doing. My impression is he is wanting the drummer to dig a little deeper rather than resorting to the click on 4. Comping on the snare is an art. When I hear those subtle yet effective strokes from a master player - embracing the form and/or soloist - it is evident to me that they are not just noodling or doodling but are truly plugged into the tune and the players around them. It's easy to noodle or play a stock pattern but it doesn't necessarily add anything to the music and can, in fact, detract from it. I take Harris' argument that way.
Of course, Philly Joe is one of my all time favorite drummers with Milestones being in my top 10 of jazz recordings (mostly because of Philly Joe). I have also resorted to the beat 4 sidestick on countless occasions...but I still think Harris is trying to break the drummer of relying too heavily on the beat 4 sidestick and to explore his snare comping a bit more. He jokes more than he explains, true enough...but I think he is definitely driving at something bigger than just, "don't do that 'cause it ripples my rump." :-) My 2c.
You must understand that this man comes from the era of discipline and we are now in the era of.... “No worries”. This new mindset never existed in the world till recently. Prior to today’s times, discipline saved lives! Teachers of high art would yell, throw things, tell you to go home because you failed and don’t come back until you did xyz. It would hurt but if you wanted it, you would do xy and z. The students knew that it was not a democratic relationship but a dictatorship between teacher and student.. Today, hypersensitivity, which Inevitably leads to mediocrity, rules the day. “My friends and family tell me that I’m good!” That’s nice but what do the masters say? If you are good then the only opinion that counts is the one that comes from someone better than you. Your opinion of yourself means nothing. Absolutely nothing! “ let another man praise you and not ye yourselves!. A stranger but not your own mouth” Proverbs 22:2
Well said, Unc! I agree wholeheartedly. If a teacher can't be honest, a student can't cash in on what might be some powerful information and advice. It could also be rubbish but it is the student's responsibility to "get it right" in the mind of the teacher or, in the process, at least come up with a compelling argument why the student disagrees. I get the argument that there isn't a spelled out explanation of "why" here but I think these kids (high school or college) are old enough to "get it!" and to react appropriately with the desired result. No need pussy foot around and cottle these students. Just express the idea and let them get to work on the concept. There's great merit and satisfaction in working towards meeting your teacher's expectations. You just might find there's something there worth holding onto. Otherwise, why study?
What a charchacter
It's a pretty trite phrase. I can understand not wanting to hear that after hearing it for so long
This cat could have easily been a stand-up.
But he does tell you what he wants if you listen closely.
I think i know what he meant. That drums with the click on 4 reminds him that average big band swing stile drummer who looks on his note sheet all the time playing those decent arrangements that always sound sober and nice ;)
Wow, this really blows my mind. I'm so confused. Selling all my gear after 55 yrs of playing.
Came to this vid from the full video - Art Blakey made a career from the and of the 2 and the 4 haha
ah when we were allowed to smoke in school....
This is an amazing Barry Harris excerpt :) Is this the great Peter Beets on the piano?
0:36
100 times better than watching Whiplash.
01:42 - If Mr. Harris hired me as his drummer and requested a specific thing to do or NOT do, I would definitely honor his request and do as asked. However, I'm glad that no one holds the patent on good taste. That said, sorry, but I'm with the drummer on this one. And he's in great company with Philly Joe Jones AND so many other world class drummers. Even Buddy Rich did this often and I'd love to hear someone critique his drumming. Keeping just the 4 in the first chorus of a solo keeps the energy lower, then as the solo builds you switch to 2 and 4, as this builds the energy with the solo. Good job to the drummer. It not only sounded good, but it sounded appropriate.
I like the Art Blakey rim on 2 and tom on the 4 & with the & accented
Barry Harris was one of the greatest pianists in the Bud Powell tradition and he swung like crazy. but he was also evangelical in in some of his attitudes towards music.
in other words "it's my way or the highway!" it was Bud Powell and no room for anybody else! (and i love Bud Powell.) why didn't Harris stop the play when he
heard the first 'click' if it was so offensive to his ear?
Please tell us why, old man.
Barry Harris is a LEGEND and one of the remaining gifts that connect us to the history of jazz music in America. He used to teach master classes here in NY. Still performs regularly and I credit him with helping me understand tonal harmony and jazz composition while I was studying for my BA in music composition. Although he's much older now, he is still a profound educator you should look him up
Many jazz standards have click on 4. This particular gentleman just does not like it. Does not mean it does not have a place.
Warren Henry 👏👏👏
anybody knows the name of the theme?
Anyone have a full video of this?
it's in the description man.
Yup , drummer needed telling haha. He won't forget that.
4
To paraphrase Miles, “don’t play (or play on) those butter beats.”
Okay Herbie
Barry Harris also dislikes Miles
@@t33nyplaysp0p
Unlike Wynton, Barry is perfectly entitled to his assessments of Miles.
@@t33nyplaysp0p Interesting, where did you hear about this?
@@youmothershouldknow4905 What do you mean unlike Wynton?
Better to get that bop into a salsa bag?
Barry is a legend, but his personal preference not to hear that doesn't make doing it wrong. I'm sure if he told Philly Joe not to do it I can guess what response he would have gotten.....
bob green he would have stopped !
If it was Barry's date, Philly Jones would have listened
he's teaching them to use new rhytmic ideas and shed the latterns theyve become comfortable in
Yea, both the drummer and the pianist were comping on four.
So?
@@jesperthorsson3586 It's what Barry Harris was talking about. It's uncommon to hear a comp on the four without another hit on the and of four when you go back and listen to bands like Miles' first quintet and Charlie Parker records
To play a constant crosstick on either the & of 2 or 4 will get you fired in a jazz gig, so I would take that comment with a grain of salt. With that being said, I do prefer to accent the 2 rather than the 4 when I do it.
There’s gigs it’ll get you as well.
tell that to Miles circa 1957-59. Its totally fine in the right context for a couple of choruses.
Barry Harris was joking around and exaggerating a bit, so his point was to not overuse hitting the 4 all the time. Hitting the &s of 2/4 could be done more often and still swing, but even those can be overdone. Variety is the spice that keeps swingin~
@@chromaticswing9199 well said.!! variety is the spice that keeps swinging
yet no commenting about the immense tempo drag right after the theme...
Thanks. I'm new to this, so I thought my ears were deceiving me. That wasn't a taste issue. That was time.
Watch the whole class he's on them about time every minute.
They started slowing down?? I didn't notice at all! When exactly?
@@GrumpyStormtrooper "right after the theme" 1:00
@@Ayo.Ajisafe wow I really can't hear it at all, the rhythm seems fine to me... I can't believe I'm still this bad
What's the name of the tune? Really relaxed; sounds very early-50s, sort of Pacific Jazz.
Passport blues
"ripples my rump" I'm gonna start saying that
Fera
What's the blues they're playing?
‘I’m suicidal’
*laughs*
Anyone know the standard their playing?
Passport
@@tobiasgirona1023 Thank you! That's my day sorted!
Passport Blues - Charlie Parker, i may add
Funny guy :)
Detestations! Ripples my rump! Yessireebob!
I would be scared to death to play in front of him
I think Sonny Stitt liked it. His drummers used it a lot.
HA!!!
Does anyone know the name of the tune?
This is Passport from Charles Parker..there are two passport anyway!
Passport 🤥(tune z)
Ignore the emoji
Well if Philly Jo did it, so can you. If your piano player doesn't like it agree that you won't play it if he won't play the ands. All kidding aside, play what is appropriate for the music. I hear all kinds of young players, who in the name of creativity or originality cabd shut up and play two bars of swing in a row. They always gotta be soloing. I think they are insecure about letting it breathe a little. It's just a wash of noise. A Hi five to the first name you list in reply who is like this.
Love Barry, but Philly Joe made it a part of the bop drumming lexicon. Sorry to disagree. Barry is still the man.
Have you seen the whole of the original video this is taken from? In context it makes more sense...Drummers should be creating their own lexicon rather than imitating the standard. Paul Barbarin was probably the best drummer of the 1920's, but of course Philly Jones & other Bebop drummers changed the sound completely rather than sticking to the former orthodoxy.
2:47 but he's singing in 3/4?
It sounds like that because its a bar of 4 nearly divided into 3. If this makes any sense, its like 12312312 where 1 is accented.
@@TheRedstonedeluxe I see what you mean but I still only hear hin sing 6 groups of 3 like
"ah-ah-3 eh-oh-3 eh-ah-3 eh-oh-3 eh-ah-3 eh-ah-3"
He is just using triplets. If you give a search for those you'll see they are employed all the time to 4/4 to give a swing to it.
@@RyanGerhardtYimimoto @Ryan Gerhardt i don't think so, because he's talking about the click at the fourth beat of a bar
@@PabloPerroPerro No. It sounds like he's doing the tumbao rhythm. Which makes sense, because he mentioned salsa. And the first two notes he sings are 5, 1. Like would be in a tumbao bass line. Exactly what he said. And of the 2 and beat 4. He was just doing it pretty fast. Like around 200.
The point, maybe, is not playing the click on four, that can be a peculiarity in swing mood more than bebop, but the drummer was pulling back.
He didnt like it bc it was corny?
I assume this is it. A bit too on the nose, a bit too showbiz for a bop purist like Harris.
Wrong. The click on the 4 was being used as a crutch for the drummer. Barry wanted to work on the group's rhythm, and the fastest way to rhythmic indolence is to emphasize the 2 and the 4 only. Jazz is far, far more than just those two beats accented. In fact, John Riley in his book of Bop Drumming mentions how it is a misconception that jazz and especially bebop was only about 2 and 4. It isn't. It's about all 4 beats and being clever with the displacement of rhythm. Clicking on 2 and 4 is a valid tool, but only one such tool for a drummer to comp with.
Rohan Casukhela you are absolutely right!
@@marcusstoica nice one.
@@marcusstoica Correct. It can also lead to an exaggerated swing feel.
Who here is a drummer? I only use that phrase before metric modulation because it shifts the feeling of the one in advance. It's fun to play it and then have a triplet Fill after it. But I would never play it longer then 2 or 3 times. Cheers to all the drummers.
I am. It's fun to play it, and it sounds "typical" jazz. It's just that Barry saw it as a cliche that he couldn't stand no more. So his (tongue-in-cheek) suggestion is valid: I feel he's trying to provide the drummer with an alternative to the cliche.
As much as that was entertaining, he didn't really explain why you shouldn't click on 4. What exactly was the point of that rant?
.
.
.
.
I'm being really serious right now. I'd like to know hahah
He's an old head and has probably wanted to say that for years but how you gonna tell Philly Joe how to play the drums?
@@RonaldRumRaisin true, but that still doesn't explain why that sounds bad? I do it when I play jazz. Not all the time, but I've used that click on 4 many times and no one ever said "don't do it, it sounds bad".
If there's a better alternative I'd like to hear his reasoning behind it :)
I think he just wanted the music to be pushed forward. A backbeat on four or two doesn’t push the beat forward like an upbeat does. Also the drummer started to drag and that click on four might have been the culprit.
Imo the drummer is feeding rhythmic ideas both to the soloist and the band. It's his personal opinion that's it's just not something that's inspiring to him. If you listen the piano player is accenting the "and" of 2 and 4 before the band was cut off (like he suggested the drummer do).
Maybe the cross stick on 2 and 4 is just too safe, it's uninspired. Maybe there is a time and place for it, (I do it a lot too)😂
I always think of jazz improv a lot like comedy, it's about timing. Some people try to tell a joke and it ain't funny! Or maybe in this case, it's like a joke he's heard a million times.. it's like beating a dead horse. Comedy is all about timing, so is the drums! Work on some new fresh material is all he's saying IMO..
@@cjwolfedrums2077 I think he was dragging but not because the click on the 4.
A click on every other four can sound pretty damn good though ...
Awesome but the point is that every musician is so different so... what’s the true? 😜
Guys I tried the McDonald’s chicken sandwich it’s nothing special
Why ?
honestly im a drum instructor and i despise a lone snare on the 4
Sometimes it's exactly what the music needs.
Doesn’t Jazz sound fun kids! 😩
& 4 moves the drums better around the piano
Me pressing "4" on the keyboard:
"I detest it"
Well, it aint stopping my from hitting 4 on my keyboard :D
me*
I'm with this 100%. I actually hate that shit, feels too basic and unimaginative for swing.
Lolu Oresegun it’s not usually there for oriniginality or anything like that, it’s usually to keep people in time to lead into 1. It’s pretty common in high school level bands because of what I said, but it becomes more seldom in higher levels
I think his psychiatrist told him to have some seltzer...
Addendum: I was listening to Dexter Gordon’s “Gettin’ Around” today. Barry Harris on piano with Billy Higgins on drums. I heard Billy playing a side-stick groove and thought, “I wonder if that was driving Barry crazy? More seltzer time with his analyst.” Then I listened more intently- sure enough, Billy was playing side-stick on beat 2, but not on beat 4. Every time he approached knocking on beat 4, he’d slip back to beat 2. Man, this “Harris vs. 4” thing goes back a long ways! Even the great Billy Higgins was not immune...
Without the couplet syncopation the rimshot is emphasising the end of the bar not the first beat where the bass player plays roots 90% of the time (always at the initiation of phrase) its musically halting of rhythm. Only people that don't count or read do it and it throws the entire rhythm section retrograde. The man is right!
Poor drummers heart must’ve sank
Yeah whatever Barry 😂
These comments are the most jazz musician shit ever lol. Dude forgot more about this then probably anyone here knows. Obviously it's not objective, hard truth. Sit down lmfao.
If Philly played it it must of been right and Barry may of been wrong on this-Barry is great but Philly is one of the greatest-
the wholrle point of this lesson is to get the students comfortable with phrasing on the ands. he was just trying to state in a comical way that its not the time for the drummer to play that phrase.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with what the drummer was doing. Sounds like it was just a rant from an old man. There was not explanation or anything. At least give a good enough reason, not just "i dont like it''.
the students new the lesson was about phrasing on the ands
Becuz thas soulsow lol wtf
People are too sensitive. He's just from the pre-snowflake school of pedagogy.
loooool
I can not see the point. He is mostly just joking around, trying to be funny all the time and telling stories. At 3:06 he tells even that others do like it, an they are different to him!? Mabe the drummer is different also? So, he makes clear that he talks about taste, not right or wrong. If he talks about taste, why is he making up such a ton of talking? He has no argument, except of not liking it. Black/White.
Because.... This aint salsa? XD i get a little his point, if they're rehearsing old school jazz they should listen to that, but not everything is old school jazz and jazz is known for leaving old school behind.
hes trying to get the drummer to break out of his comfort zone. the whole point of this lesson is for the musicians to stsrt their phrases on the and. hes not actually saying the phrase should never be played
This kind stuff is why Jazz musicians suck lol I know he’s mostly joking but rock/pop/metal/country/anything else musicians would just never be so prudish as Jazz musicians are... because when half of them say this shit they mean it
Barry wasn't telling him not to hit on the 4 just because he didn't like it. He was trying to teach the young drummer that there's more to jazz than hitting on the 4 - rather, hitting on the and of the 4 is just as good. And he was trying to teach him to be more rhythmically independent of quarter note time, and not fall into habits of ALWAYS hitting on the 4 for repeated measures.
what the fuck are you even trying to say? that someone force fed you rubbing alcohol while your brain was developing?
What in the hell was THAT all about ?
Too dogmatic. There are many interpretations of everything. Nobody should think that only they are correct.
In the context of the master class, he's saying not to use it constantly. Don't let patterns take over creativity.
@@VegasA3 maybe but a little modesty and understanding goes a long way...didn't notice any here..
@@dongee6351 modesty schmodesty.