You're an incredible content creator. I've played many competitive games, and it's rare to see a top ranked player gives out all this kind of information for free, in clear fun to watch videos.
Admittedly unique units have often been powerful from a *raw power* standard... they’ve mostly suffered from being impractical in a game where unit massing and economy is the limiting factor
@@rubywest5166 Khmer is a perfect example, yes if you get enough Elephants you're unstoppable, except that the amount of resources on the map isn't even enough to make that happen especially where there's some other jerk out there tryin' to kill you!
@@EliasHasle I didn't know that Rams do, Bombard Cannons and Onagers do a decent job but those are both very expensive units and not all civs get them. Your better bet if you're playing against the Khmer (and if you think they're trying to mass Elephants) is to strike first. In my experience you don't usally see Khmer unless you're on black forest or Michi or something.
Dude I was literally just thinking earlier today I need to find some info on ideal endgame army comps for every civ so I know what to work towards, then I hop on my laptop and immediately get this in my recommended. Thanks for the helpful (and very timely for me) vid!
Hey Hera, could you make a siege video? Explaining when it's worth to upgrade each in terms of time and against which units as well as which is better when?
I like to add some magyar huszars mixed in with the paladins to counter the enemies deathball, just sacrifice some 10-15 of them and get rid of their onagers, cannons and/or trebs
I would say Japanese are a civ worth mentioning towers as part of a deathball. Yasama keeps can just push a dagger into an enemy front and zone out a ton of map control. Also heavy cav archer can be a great alternative to arbalest with more attack, hp, adds a ton of mobility, and is more population efficient.
Surprised you didn't mention axes for franks? with the cheaper castles and already having blast furnace teching into paladin. Also for Goths, their HC are kinda underrated, goth massing hand cannons with spamming inf feels quite strong 🙂
Aztec - Garland Wars Jaguar Warriors, Pikemen and Champions; Monks and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Bengalis - Halberdiers, Elephant Archers/Rathas, and Monks with Trebuchets. Berbers - Camel Archers and Heavy Scorpions with Bombard Cannons. Bohemians - Halberdiers, Hand Cannoneers, and Hussite Reforms Monks with Houfnice. Britons - Halberdiers and Longbowmen with Warwolf Trebuchets. Bulgarians - Halberdiers, Konnik, and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Burgundians - Hand Cannoneers and Coustillier with Bombard Cannons. Flemish Revolution if necessary. Burmese - Halberdiers, Arambai/Battle Elephants, and Monks with Bombard Cannons. Byzantines - Arbalests, Cataphracts, and Monks with Trebuchets. Celts - Halberdiers, Woad Raiders, and Furor Celtica Siege Rams and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Chinese - Chu Ko Nu, Cavaliers, and Rocketry Scorpions with Siege Rams. Cumans - Siege Rams, Kipchak, and Paladins with Trebuchets. Dravidians - Halberdiers, Urumi Swordsmen, Elephant Archers and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Ethopians - Halberdiers, Arbalests, and Siege Onagers with Bombard Cannons. Franks - Paladins and Heavy Scorpions with Bombard Cannons. Goths - Halberdiers, Huskarls, and Heavy Scorpions with Bombard Cannons. Gurjaras - Heavy Camels and Chakram Throwers with Bombard Cannons. Hindustani - Hand Cannoneers and Imperial Camels with Bombard Cannons. Huns - Tarkans and Heavy Cavalry Archers with Siege Rams. Incas - Kamyuks, Arbalests and Monks with Trebuchets. Italians - Condotierro, Genoese Crossbowmen, and Monks with Bombard Cannons. Japanese - Halberdiers, Elite Skirmishers, and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Khmer - Battle Elephant and Heavy Scorpion with Trebuchets OR Ballista Elephants and Hussars with Siege Rams. Koreans - Halberdiers, Siege Onagers, and Battle Wagons with Bombard Cannons. Lithuanians - Hand Cannoneers, Leitis, and Monks with Bombard Cannons. Magyars - Heavy Cavalry Archers and Paladins with Trebuchets. Malay - Arbalests, Battle Elephants, and Monks with Bombard Cannons. Malians - Heavy Camel Riders, Siege Onagers, and Gbetos with Bombard Cannons. Mayans - Halberdiers, Eagle Warriors, Siege Rams, and Plumed Archers with Trebuchets. Mongols - Mangudai and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Persians - Kamandaran Crossbowmen, Siege Rams, and War Elephants with Bombard Cannons. Poles - Arbalests, Obuchs, and Monks with Bombard Cannons. Portuguese - Cavaliers and Arquebus Organ Guns with Bombard Cannons. Saracens - Hussars, Mamelukes, and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets. Sicilians - Halberdiers, Siege Onagers, Serjeants and Monks with Trebuchets. Slavs - Druzhina Halberdiers and Scorpions with Trebuchets. Spanish - Paladins, Conquistadors, and Missionaries with Bombard Cannons and Trebuchets. Tatars - Heavy Cavalry Archers and Keshik with Trebuchets. Teutons - Halberdiers, Ironclad Siege Onagers, Teutonic Knights, and Monks with Bombard Cannons. Turks - Heavy Cavalry Archers and Hussars with Artillery Bombard Cannons. Vietnamese - Rattan Archer and Chatras Battle Elephants with Bombard Cannons Vikings - Berserkergang Berserkers and Heavy Scorpions with Trebuchets.
I will also say that even though Hera said that Bombard Towers are always nice, Japanese deathball should also include Keeps. Yasama Keeps with your standard army is a nightmare of a deathball. Korean Keeps are also extremely annoying if you lack Castles to make Trebuchets with (and even then, Korean player can add their BBC or SOs to snipe them), because of their range, but you'll still likely prefer Bombard Towers instead. Finally, Britons actually get pretty strong Keeps as well with their Castle UT. It should not be underestimated, and it does see some play in higher level BF games! Especially in teamgames, where you can buy Stone forever with trade. And since I'm an Incas fan, I'll also say that while Kamayuks do shred everything, and Arbalests are great at supporting them, mixing in just a few Slingers (not more than 10, let's say) will do wonders especially against Melee specialist civs like Japanese, Teutons, Aztecs, or Bulgarians. Kamayuks can struggle to kill their UUs or high armored units, but Slingers will decimate those much quicker than Arbalests will. They even got a buff recently, so Slingers should win against Arbalests 1v1 as well!
Its really hard to mikro onagers if you have 4 different units as deathball so I think if onagers are used only one more unit can be added to deathball.
I noticed how often you use scorpions in your comps, while we don't see them often in competitive tournaments and games, I'd like a fcus on scorpions sometimes !
I wonder if you could substitute imperial skirmishers for the ratan archers for the Vietnamese. You have more gold for elephants and siege, but you’d probably be weaker to cavalry.
Vikings struggle with onagers so much I once had to resort to cavalier to snipe siege and close out an Arabia game. Still, I think Japanese are down there in terms of vulnerable deathballs, since it seems like they straight up die to skirm-gunpowder.
Haha, at least he said we... Me being 30 - & him being 23 (or so), saying 'we've been playing the Britons for 20 years now! I was 6.5 or so years old when this came out, so that was a long long time ago. But fantastic composition of facts/concepts to help new and intermediate players such as myself get more knowledge... NOT just what I can do the best with what I have, but what I might/should come up against & how to conceptualise it all.
An interesting video idea would be about a smaller "deathball", aka "pre-deathball", for example when to risk attacking against defenses. What inexperienced players often face is that they have a fairly large military but hesitate to attack, just because the opponent has a few towers. The army might be enough to completely ignore the towers and just destroy much of the enemy economy before succumbing to tower fire. I'm often myself unsure where is the point when my army is big enough to just ignore tower/caste/TC fire and go in, destroying more of the enemy economy than my army is worth. For example, if I have an army big enough to strike a fatal blow but am afraid due to the defenses: - I might have the temptation to hold back and wait for some siege first, and then attack the towers (or later castles) one by one, but then I lose too much time and my opponent can outboom me - Or I attack too soon before I amassed enough forces, and lose my army not doing enough damage, so my opponent can outboom me again. So, when is the sweet spot (army size) of just going in and completely ignoring enemy tower fire (in early game) or castle fire (later) and letting my army dwindle due to arrow fire but still being sure to afflict more damage?
Some deathballs are to gold intesive, for example, with viatnamess i usualy go for elies+imperial skirmish to deal with halbs, does nearly the same but alot more gold friendly.
my predictions for top-5 deathballs: No.5: Turks (Artillery BBCs, BBTs, Heavy CAs, Hussars) No.4: Ethiopians (Halbs, Arbs, Torsion Engines Siege Onagers, Siege Rams) No.3: Bohemians (Halbs, Skirms/Arbs, HCs, Monks, Houfnices). While this is most realistically obtained in a 1v1, the only problem in my mind is that this dies to Elite Cataphracts and maybe Elite War Wagons. No.2: Mongols (Mangudai, Hussars, Siege Rams, Siege Onagers) Honorable mentions: Italians (Genoese, Hussars, Condos, BBCs); Japanese (Halbs, Skirms, Trebs, Monks, Yasama Keeps) No.1: Koreans (War Wagons, Siege Onagers, Eupseong Keeps, Halbs, BBCs)
When should I use the ideal army composition (he has another video about that) and when the death all composition? I’m new to the game and a bit confused 😅
he literally said it in the intros. To said it even simplified though, the ideal one should be used when gold is more scarce and deathball can be used when gold you have is plenty.
I think that is a point of these, Hera made different video for late game composition (those are relatively gold effective, usually being one gold unit, one trash, and some siege), however these are deathballs, when you have lot of resources and need to to have army as strong as possible (probably useful in team games).
As Bengalis, what do you do when your opponent masses skirms against that comp? It feels like Skirms counter so much of Bengalis' best units; the Ele Archer, Rathas, and Halbs Similar to how Khmer have different deathballs featuring Battle Elephants or Ballista Elephants, are Bengalis' Battle Elephants good enough to have their own deathball comp?
I think with Japanese the acctual Deathball almost always involves Towers. They are just SO good. With Samurai beeing abit limited Japanese opt for Towerspam over Castle #3++ most of the time.
Question, for a civ like the Saracens (for example) that utilize siege onagers in their death ball, what's the best way to combat bbc + halbs (or another anti-cav unit) that try to snipe your SO's? Would Monk+Redemption be best or just go BBC of your own?
As an age of mithology player using norse when I started to play aoe2 I was playing vikings all the time. Man they suck outside water. This was before they got chieftans btw. I hope one day the devs give halb to my bois.
Very nice video. One question though. Why not heavy cavalry archer for the Japanese instead of arbs? I think they used to be bad for Japanese until the devs gave them bloodlines.
definitely, japanese CA are fully upgraded, also sarracens, another civ that have surprised good CA are the Bulgarian, I just name the ones that hera didn't mention before. (eg. magyars, turks, tartar, huns)
Why archers in the Byzantine comp instead of skirms, when the only thing that (kind of) counters cataphracts is archers? Especially when they get the skirms so cheap. Makes it look like a super expensive comp to have catas, archers, BBC and monks...
Hera pls do a "Best spammable units for team games" As thats what a lot of low elo players (myself included) do. You know, when gold is not a problem because of trade and you have many castles to produce UUs.
in my experience, war elephants and ballista elephants, but also if you get a constant stream of teutonic knights against anything but a gunpowder civ you will win. They are too weak against arrows but not cause they take a lot of damage but because they die before they can reach the archers so if you get a constant stream it does wonders. Bonus points if your up against goths. Also, mass paladins are strong too
For the Aztecs, why not eagles over champ? The deathball seems weak to archers unless you use the onagers well. If you lose them or don't have enough, archers counter pikes, champs, and jaguars
Siege Onagers will hit every non-Briton archers. You just need to keep your army together, so that the Onagers can fire as soon as possible. If you're up against Britons, you'll use a mass Eagle army anyway.
@yousefwahbeh4644 yes! Most the time I do! I've become a little better at using them with ranged units, but otherwise, I only use onagers as defensive units behind walls.
I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that only some civs (e.g., Ethiopians, Britons, Koreans, Bohemians, Mongols) have true *death*balls! others (e.g., Burmese, Byzantines, Cumans, Franks) just have--what I would refer as--"very strong" unit comps given unlimited gold! the difference being, the latter unit comps, while strong, can still be fought against whereas the former are like an "AoE2 checkmate"! Edit: just like BBTs (for civs that have them), I think FU Keeps could be an amazing addition for Japanese & Koreans!!
Is siege onager really that common in games in general? I played 500 games and I swear I only saw them max 1 time. (I think I did it and lose the game paying for the upgrade)
Me: "Okay time for bed" Hera: "HE'S GOING TO BED, UPLOAD IT NOW GO GO GO" edit: Love that you're on an upload spree while casually winning tournaments!
Ah, the classic Mongol deathball works on so many levels. Mongol Hussar are an amazing buffer unit, with the extra health to eat mango shots (including your own friendly fire), the speed to run down monks and siege, and reinforce quickly when the first ones die. Imo, most viable 1v1 deathballs when there’s no trade for infinite paladins or elephants. Trebs are fine, but if you got Drill, Rams are terrifying - covers the Hussar from arrows, can chases down enemy siege while resisting projectiles, and produced from Workshops rather than the castles making Mangudai.
Hallberdiers better than TK against cavalry? In fact, 1 TK kills 1 paladin while 1 hallberdier can't. The latter is better against elephants though. Great video and I am excited to see the next one.
Why obuch? Don't you just die to any civ with good cavalry or good archers or good cavalry archers? That's a super slow composition and it's not even the best composition for them. For the low low price of 5 more food and 10 more gold you get a unit that has 45 more hitpoints (67% more), 4 more base attack (50% more), and has actual mobility. Not to mention a unit that is a lot easier for the poles to get to and replenish. Polish Cavalier is no joke, and makes a far better buffer against anything that would threaten your arbalest, while your arbalest can target units that would threaten your cavalier.
1:47 Aztecs
2:18 Bengalis
2:37 Berbers
3:01 Bohemians
3:22 Britons
3:44 Bulgarians
4:04 Burgundians
4:24 Burmese
5:01 Byzantines
5:37 Celts
6:00 Chinese
6:20 Cumans
6:50 Dravidians
7:13 Ethiopians
7:42 Franks
8:05 Goths
8:27 Gurjaras
8:46 Hindustanis
9:08 Huns
9:44 Incas
10:06 Italians
10:31 Japanese
11:07 Khmer
11:42 Koreans
12:06 Lithuanians
12:25 Magyars
12:50 Malay
13:13 Malians
13:41 Mayans
14:12 Mongols
14:45 Persians
15:15 Poles
15:51 Portuguese
16:15 Saracens
16:43 Silicians
17:09 Slavs
17:32 Spanish
18:01 Tatars
18:26 Teutons
19:01 Turks
19:34 Vietnamese
20:11 Vikings
Thank you!
This video will help a lot since that’s my only play style
It's a close second of mine...
But my preffered is what I affectionately call getting "pied" - "panicking, idling everything, and dying."
@@roolaing I also prefer this pied strategy, seems like new meta is on the rise :)
Bro, I just want to turtle until it’s deathball time.
My no. 1 is overinvesting in an unsuccessful Flush (and losing to enemy knights, castle or boom). 11
You're an incredible content creator. I've played many competitive games, and it's rare to see a top ranked player gives out all this kind of information for free, in clear fun to watch videos.
I'm happy and surprised to see how often UUs are being included. Shows how far many have come to being viable in a army comp.
Admittedly unique units have often been powerful from a *raw power* standard... they’ve mostly suffered from being impractical in a game where unit massing and economy is the limiting factor
@@rubywest5166 Khmer is a perfect example, yes if you get enough Elephants you're unstoppable, except that the amount of resources on the map isn't even enough to make that happen especially where there's some other jerk out there tryin' to kill you!
@@djjazzyjeff1232 Rams and onagers supposedly beat them, though.
@@EliasHasle I didn't know that Rams do, Bombard Cannons and Onagers do a decent job but those are both very expensive units and not all civs get them. Your better bet if you're playing against the Khmer (and if you think they're trying to mass Elephants) is to strike first. In my experience you don't usally see Khmer unless you're on black forest or Michi or something.
Dude I was literally just thinking earlier today I need to find some info on ideal endgame army comps for every civ so I know what to work towards, then I hop on my laptop and immediately get this in my recommended. Thanks for the helpful (and very timely for me) vid!
I didn’t know I wanted this video, but Hera knew somehow ❤
Hey Hera, could you make a siege video? Explaining when it's worth to upgrade each in terms of time and against which units as well as which is better when?
I would love this too! I have such a hard time judging when I should upgrade siege or even start using siege at all
@@dearestcomrade8638 I am glad to hear I am not the only one. Plus I couldn't find any videos about it
I'd love to see such a video, especially curious about how to get the best use out of onagers and BCs, who do kill our own units with friendly fire.
I like to add some magyar huszars mixed in with the paladins to counter the enemies deathball, just sacrifice some 10-15 of them and get rid of their onagers, cannons and/or trebs
If there is one thing Fatslob knows well, it is that optimal Vikings death ball composition.
The GOAT.
Fatslob's death ball is time itself
I would say Japanese are a civ worth mentioning towers as part of a deathball. Yasama keeps can just push a dagger into an enemy front and zone out a ton of map control. Also heavy cav archer can be a great alternative to arbalest with more attack, hp, adds a ton of mobility, and is more population efficient.
I needed this so badly. Thanks Hera.
Hey Hera! Long time fan here, thank you so much for your incredible videos.
Great work on this one Hera.
May I make one request though, to also add some footage of you demonstrating each of those deathball comps?
Brilliant video man
Surprised you didn't mention axes for franks? with the cheaper castles and already having blast furnace teching into paladin. Also for Goths, their HC are kinda underrated, goth massing hand cannons with spamming inf feels quite strong 🙂
Thanks so much Hera! I think this is my most clicked video on youtube hahaha
Love these composition videos I check back on theme often
Vikings deathball consists of Berserks, Heavy Scorpions and Trebs
AKA the Fatslob Special
Amazing content!!
Aztec - Garland Wars Jaguar Warriors, Pikemen and Champions; Monks and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Bengalis - Halberdiers, Elephant Archers/Rathas, and Monks with Trebuchets.
Berbers - Camel Archers and Heavy Scorpions with Bombard Cannons.
Bohemians - Halberdiers, Hand Cannoneers, and Hussite Reforms Monks with Houfnice.
Britons - Halberdiers and Longbowmen with Warwolf Trebuchets.
Bulgarians - Halberdiers, Konnik, and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Burgundians - Hand Cannoneers and Coustillier with Bombard Cannons. Flemish Revolution if necessary.
Burmese - Halberdiers, Arambai/Battle Elephants, and Monks with Bombard Cannons.
Byzantines - Arbalests, Cataphracts, and Monks with Trebuchets.
Celts - Halberdiers, Woad Raiders, and Furor Celtica Siege Rams and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Chinese - Chu Ko Nu, Cavaliers, and Rocketry Scorpions with Siege Rams.
Cumans - Siege Rams, Kipchak, and Paladins with Trebuchets.
Dravidians - Halberdiers, Urumi Swordsmen, Elephant Archers and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Ethopians - Halberdiers, Arbalests, and Siege Onagers with Bombard Cannons.
Franks - Paladins and Heavy Scorpions with Bombard Cannons.
Goths - Halberdiers, Huskarls, and Heavy Scorpions with Bombard Cannons.
Gurjaras - Heavy Camels and Chakram Throwers with Bombard Cannons.
Hindustani - Hand Cannoneers and Imperial Camels with Bombard Cannons.
Huns - Tarkans and Heavy Cavalry Archers with Siege Rams.
Incas - Kamyuks, Arbalests and Monks with Trebuchets.
Italians - Condotierro, Genoese Crossbowmen, and Monks with Bombard Cannons.
Japanese - Halberdiers, Elite Skirmishers, and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Khmer - Battle Elephant and Heavy Scorpion with Trebuchets OR Ballista Elephants and Hussars with Siege Rams.
Koreans - Halberdiers, Siege Onagers, and Battle Wagons with Bombard Cannons.
Lithuanians - Hand Cannoneers, Leitis, and Monks with Bombard Cannons.
Magyars - Heavy Cavalry Archers and Paladins with Trebuchets.
Malay - Arbalests, Battle Elephants, and Monks with Bombard Cannons.
Malians - Heavy Camel Riders, Siege Onagers, and Gbetos with Bombard Cannons.
Mayans - Halberdiers, Eagle Warriors, Siege Rams, and Plumed Archers with Trebuchets.
Mongols - Mangudai and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Persians - Kamandaran Crossbowmen, Siege Rams, and War Elephants with Bombard Cannons.
Poles - Arbalests, Obuchs, and Monks with Bombard Cannons.
Portuguese - Cavaliers and Arquebus Organ Guns with Bombard Cannons.
Saracens - Hussars, Mamelukes, and Siege Onagers with Trebuchets.
Sicilians - Halberdiers, Siege Onagers, Serjeants and Monks with Trebuchets.
Slavs - Druzhina Halberdiers and Scorpions with Trebuchets.
Spanish - Paladins, Conquistadors, and Missionaries with Bombard Cannons and Trebuchets.
Tatars - Heavy Cavalry Archers and Keshik with Trebuchets.
Teutons - Halberdiers, Ironclad Siege Onagers, Teutonic Knights, and Monks with Bombard Cannons.
Turks - Heavy Cavalry Archers and Hussars with Artillery Bombard Cannons.
Vietnamese - Rattan Archer and Chatras Battle Elephants with Bombard Cannons
Vikings - Berserkergang Berserkers and Heavy Scorpions with Trebuchets.
I will also say that even though Hera said that Bombard Towers are always nice, Japanese deathball should also include Keeps. Yasama Keeps with your standard army is a nightmare of a deathball. Korean Keeps are also extremely annoying if you lack Castles to make Trebuchets with (and even then, Korean player can add their BBC or SOs to snipe them), because of their range, but you'll still likely prefer Bombard Towers instead. Finally, Britons actually get pretty strong Keeps as well with their Castle UT. It should not be underestimated, and it does see some play in higher level BF games! Especially in teamgames, where you can buy Stone forever with trade.
And since I'm an Incas fan, I'll also say that while Kamayuks do shred everything, and Arbalests are great at supporting them, mixing in just a few Slingers (not more than 10, let's say) will do wonders especially against Melee specialist civs like Japanese, Teutons, Aztecs, or Bulgarians. Kamayuks can struggle to kill their UUs or high armored units, but Slingers will decimate those much quicker than Arbalests will. They even got a buff recently, so Slingers should win against Arbalests 1v1 as well!
Its really hard to mikro onagers if you have 4 different units as deathball so I think if onagers are used only one more unit can be added to deathball.
For Britons I've tried 5 trebs, 15 scouts and 45 longbow men mixed with archers. That seems pretty effective.
I wasn’t ready for the Byzantine death ball to not include any trash units lol
Congrats on tgm and happy holidays
I noticed how often you use scorpions in your comps, while we don't see them often in competitive tournaments and games, I'd like a fcus on scorpions sometimes !
I take notes about everything you say. Thanks for such detailed description!
for someone that says peace at the end of their videos, he doesn't seem to go for peaceful victory conditions very often :D
He loves peace. In fact, he loves it so much he'll kill anyone who doesn't want it aswell
I wonder if you could substitute imperial skirmishers for the ratan archers for the Vietnamese. You have more gold for elephants and siege, but you’d probably be weaker to cavalry.
I feel like this would have been better as a Top 5 Death Ball Civs video.
i love how you added some trash units
for almost every civ, its important to point out that trash aint useless
Vikings struggle with onagers so much I once had to resort to cavalier to snipe siege and close out an Arabia game. Still, I think Japanese are down there in terms of vulnerable deathballs, since it seems like they straight up die to skirm-gunpowder.
Yea but vikings is a sea civ,Arabia is not there strongest point
Great animations, good work.
My boy Hera with that quality content
still waiting for the top 5 best death ball video can't wait for it to come out
Interesting video. I like videos like this. Another good one was 1 tip vs every civ. Thanks bro
Nice video to wake up on Christmas Eve to. Yes!
Okay the real question.. which of these death balls would win most often if they all went 1v1 in a competition?
Haha, at least he said we... Me being 30 - & him being 23 (or so), saying 'we've been playing the Britons for 20 years now! I was 6.5 or so years old when this came out, so that was a long long time ago.
But fantastic composition of facts/concepts to help new and intermediate players such as myself get more knowledge... NOT just what I can do the best with what I have, but what I might/should come up against & how to conceptualise it all.
Thanks
An interesting video idea would be about a smaller "deathball", aka "pre-deathball", for example when to risk attacking against defenses. What inexperienced players often face is that they have a fairly large military but hesitate to attack, just because the opponent has a few towers. The army might be enough to completely ignore the towers and just destroy much of the enemy economy before succumbing to tower fire. I'm often myself unsure where is the point when my army is big enough to just ignore tower/caste/TC fire and go in, destroying more of the enemy economy than my army is worth.
For example, if I have an army big enough to strike a fatal blow but am afraid due to the defenses:
- I might have the temptation to hold back and wait for some siege first, and then attack the towers (or later castles) one by one, but then I lose too much time and my opponent can outboom me
- Or I attack too soon before I amassed enough forces, and lose my army not doing enough damage, so my opponent can outboom me again.
So, when is the sweet spot (army size) of just going in and completely ignoring enemy tower fire (in early game) or castle fire (later) and letting my army dwindle due to arrow fire but still being sure to afflict more damage?
Some deathballs are to gold intesive, for example, with viatnamess i usualy go for elies+imperial skirmish to deal with halbs, does nearly the same but alot more gold friendly.
my predictions for top-5 deathballs:
No.5: Turks (Artillery BBCs, BBTs, Heavy CAs, Hussars)
No.4: Ethiopians (Halbs, Arbs, Torsion Engines Siege Onagers, Siege Rams)
No.3: Bohemians (Halbs, Skirms/Arbs, HCs, Monks, Houfnices). While this is most realistically obtained in a 1v1, the only problem in my mind is that this dies to Elite Cataphracts and maybe Elite War Wagons.
No.2: Mongols (Mangudai, Hussars, Siege Rams, Siege Onagers)
Honorable mentions: Italians (Genoese, Hussars, Condos, BBCs); Japanese (Halbs, Skirms, Trebs, Monks, Yasama Keeps)
No.1: Koreans (War Wagons, Siege Onagers, Eupseong Keeps, Halbs, BBCs)
When should I use the ideal army composition (he has another video about that) and when the death all composition? I’m new to the game and a bit confused 😅
he literally said it in the intros. To said it even simplified though, the ideal one should be used when gold is more scarce and deathball can be used when gold you have is plenty.
Some of these comps look really gold heavy, especially the saracen's...
I think that is a point of these, Hera made different video for late game composition (those are relatively gold effective, usually being one gold unit, one trash, and some siege), however these are deathballs, when you have lot of resources and need to to have army as strong as possible (probably useful in team games).
I play berbers comp usually, its kinda weak against a good siege ram push, but besides that, you are hard to deal with
@Hera just curious, why Farimba Camels and not Cavaliers?
Tatar trebs have 19 range. Unique tech gives +2. Otherwise nice video! :D
As Bengalis, what do you do when your opponent masses skirms against that comp? It feels like Skirms counter so much of Bengalis' best units; the Ele Archer, Rathas, and Halbs
Similar to how Khmer have different deathballs featuring Battle Elephants or Ballista Elephants, are Bengalis' Battle Elephants good enough to have their own deathball comp?
I think with Japanese the acctual Deathball almost always involves Towers. They are just SO good. With Samurai beeing abit limited Japanese opt for Towerspam over Castle #3++ most of the time.
4:30
"bro, your horse skirmishers are really inaccurate! LULZ"
"NO that's just their splash damage."
so mostly the unique unit, got it
Can this advice be applied straight to death matches ?
400 of them .
Spills coffee ahahahah
Great video Hera.
The only death ball needed is a Hussar spam
When Hera called Teutons a fan favorite I smiled :)
He couldn't resist the charm of the Caped Crusaders 11
Surprised paladin weren't included
Same for me when he said he loved Saracens :)
Question, for a civ like the Saracens (for example) that utilize siege onagers in their death ball, what's the best way to combat bbc + halbs (or another anti-cav unit) that try to snipe your SO's? Would Monk+Redemption be best or just go BBC of your own?
Your own cannons are usually the play if you have them with SOs.
LETS GO MY SUGGESTION HAS BECOME REALITY
all you need in a viking deathball is fully upgraded elite berserks. they are immortal
As an age of mithology player using norse when I started to play aoe2 I was playing vikings all the time. Man they suck outside water. This was before they got chieftans btw. I hope one day the devs give halb to my bois.
They were pretty common picks in high level tournaments Arabia for a while until they took thumb ring from them, strong eco into FU arbs
@@Sheppo42 Wait, they don't have thumb ring? :o
Very nice video. One question though. Why not heavy cavalry archer for the Japanese instead of arbs? I think they used to be bad for Japanese until the devs gave them bloodlines.
Heavy ca really good yeah
definitely, japanese CA are fully upgraded, also sarracens, another civ that have surprised good CA are the Bulgarian, I just name the ones that hera didn't mention before. (eg. magyars, turks, tartar, huns)
You missed Romans. Great content though!
How many of these have been seen in competitive play?
They should give vikings redemption. Random monestary tech doesn't break history and gives them an answer to SO since they have block printing already
Can Vikings kind of counter SO with siege rams, though? Or do they also die too fast?
Why archers in the Byzantine comp instead of skirms, when the only thing that (kind of) counters cataphracts is archers? Especially when they get the skirms so cheap. Makes it look like a super expensive comp to have catas, archers, BBC and monks...
if i remember correctly Tatars have 19 range trebs
18:05 he says that
@@davisfamilyshenanigans4807 he said 18
@@rayanlasmar4247 Oh oops🤣. Your right
damn those konnik are groovin
Hera pls do a "Best spammable units for team games" As thats what a lot of low elo players (myself included) do. You know, when gold is not a problem because of trade and you have many castles to produce UUs.
in my experience, war elephants and ballista elephants, but also if you get a constant stream of teutonic knights against anything but a gunpowder civ you will win. They are too weak against arrows but not cause they take a lot of damage but because they die before they can reach the archers so if you get a constant stream it does wonders. Bonus points if your up against goths. Also, mass paladins are strong too
For the Aztecs, why not eagles over champ? The deathball seems weak to archers unless you use the onagers well. If you lose them or don't have enough, archers counter pikes, champs, and jaguars
Siege Onagers will hit every non-Briton archers. You just need to keep your army together, so that the Onagers can fire as soon as possible. If you're up against Britons, you'll use a mass Eagle army anyway.
The Problem with the Slav composition is that it gets completely wrecked by BBC + anything that's good vs inf
Teutonic Knights finally getting the place they deserve next to their siege. Thanks
13:26 that comp feels too weak vs hand cannons though. I find it a struggle when enemies mass hand cannons and helbs with some cavs dor the siege.
That’s what I just asked lol. I feel their deathball is cavalier, Gbeto, bbc.
Don’t worry about Halbs, the Gbeto cut through them like butter.
As brittons how would I counter mass onagers? Do I just brew up come cavalry?
Mass onagers are hard to deal with for any civ tbh
Briton archers out range onagers
great video
I preterm hussar Infrastruktur with berbers.
how about deathball for every age? need to update for the new civs anyway :)
Can you update, please?
My biggest issue is the troops chasing every enemy unit every which, scattering the composition and making it much less effective.
And getting your units killed with your own onagers and BCs :D
@yousefwahbeh4644 yes! Most the time I do! I've become a little better at using them with ranged units, but otherwise, I only use onagers as defensive units behind walls.
@newmeaning482 And someone would step into their minimum range with a bunch of xbows and make them melt 11
Love the comps but these are soo expensive for most civ that it be really hard to get to that point unless playing michi etc.
goth death comp its barraks a lot of barraks.
I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that only some civs (e.g., Ethiopians, Britons, Koreans, Bohemians, Mongols) have true *death*balls! others (e.g., Burmese, Byzantines, Cumans, Franks) just have--what I would refer as--"very strong" unit comps given unlimited gold! the difference being, the latter unit comps, while strong, can still be fought against whereas the former are like an "AoE2 checkmate"!
Edit: just like BBTs (for civs that have them), I think FU Keeps could be an amazing addition for Japanese & Koreans!!
Which matchup wins when two impossible compositions to break collides?
I will follow everything you said to the dot.
Do the chakram throwers apply on this patch?
I was wondering the same thing.
Is siege onager really that common in games in general? I played 500 games and I swear I only saw them max 1 time. (I think I did it and lose the game paying for the upgrade)
Very rare in open maps, common in closed maps and Team games
Why not to use samurai for Japanese? They're pretty strong
Me: "Okay time for bed"
Hera: "HE'S GOING TO BED, UPLOAD IT NOW GO GO GO"
edit: Love that you're on an upload spree while casually winning tournaments!
It’s 1 pm
@@IndexInvestingWithCole Timezones exist c:
@@SirQuantization what
17:35 and where do I get the 1million Gold from for that Comp?
That's why these are called the best deathball composition. He made another video for the realistics deathball composition.
Soooo what happens if 2 deathball compositions face against each other?
Either the one with the better micro, bigger army, better techs; is my army backed up by castles e.g
What’s wrong with 400 karambits? 😢
Nothing tbh
Repetitive strain injury.
"o-buk or o-buć, however you say it"
Is it that hard for anglos to pronounce "ch"?
I know im late but tatar trebs got 19range
Ah, the classic Mongol deathball works on so many levels. Mongol Hussar are an amazing buffer unit, with the extra health to eat mango shots (including your own friendly fire), the speed to run down monks and siege, and reinforce quickly when the first ones die. Imo, most viable 1v1 deathballs when there’s no trade for infinite paladins or elephants.
Trebs are fine, but if you got Drill, Rams are terrifying - covers the Hussar from arrows, can chases down enemy siege while resisting projectiles, and produced from Workshops rather than the castles making Mangudai.
Hallberdiers better than TK against cavalry? In fact, 1 TK kills 1 paladin while 1 hallberdier can't. The latter is better against elephants though.
Great video and I am excited to see the next one.
Meanwhile there is me who can only control 3-4 control groups of units at a time….
This dude has 4-5 control groups plus monks lmao
Why obuch? Don't you just die to any civ with good cavalry or good archers or good cavalry archers? That's a super slow composition and it's not even the best composition for them. For the low low price of 5 more food and 10 more gold you get a unit that has 45 more hitpoints (67% more), 4 more base attack (50% more), and has actual mobility. Not to mention a unit that is a lot easier for the poles to get to and replenish. Polish Cavalier is no joke, and makes a far better buffer against anything that would threaten your arbalest, while your arbalest can target units that would threaten your cavalier.
TOP 5 deathball comps got to include Mongols, Ethiopians, Bohemians and Khmer!
What would Romans be? " Centurion * Scorps" ???
The real Khmer deathball „comp“ is 120 heavy scorpions.
It's all fun and games until you run into a bombard cannon