Why Ancient Marble Statues Aren’t Meant To Be Seen As “White” (HBO)
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2017
- Polychromy in ancient statues and the whiteness of marble without paint has made both the Roman and Greek antiquity seem like they were all white. This was done on purpose by scholars in the 18th and 19th century who purposefully whitewashed those periods and pointed to the whiteness of the marble as proof that those worlds, which had people from all "races" (the term wasn't really relevant back then) were also white. VICE News Tonight walks through the Art Institute with polychromy expert Sarah Bond.
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Are you telling me that famous dudes from the Italian peninsula may have actually looked like Italian dudes? Truly a revolutionary idea!
nope, there were people from north and east Africa as well, not exactly Aryan youths
yohan cruyff nobody said they were blue eyed-blond aryans. italians were and are mediterranians. if there were northafrican and eastafrican minorities is not relevant to the fact that the natives are mediterranians.
americans....
"south of europe (romans) were actually kinda tanned and not all Scandinavian looking"
"surely this must mean they are not white"
Yes, as a slave... And the physiognomy of this sculptures is white, not African... It does not depend on skin-tones...
It was not founded by the survivors of troy, there is a good few hundred years between the fall of troy and the formation of rome. it is also hypothetical that the trojans even went to italy, its just stories
sooooo being tanned makes you non white? Interesting.
bruce wayne I know, guess that means I'm black now.
cool , cool
They are born with darker features, it's not just a tan.
JewTube Meds are white, if you were European you'd know this.
if your strictly debating siuthern europe the without a doubt yes but would the tauregs for example a black berber north african ethnic group be considered white? hell no
You can tell by the face structure
MiraBella not really, I’ve seen Somalis with facial features that can compare to a Spanish person
@@Onneukbaar Nonsense. Somalians have a very distinct cranial shape and face, as do Spaniards. They are clearly easily distinguishable.
Exactly. This is why it is easy to distinguish most ethnically pure people like for example Japanese, Koreans from Thai.
@Proton2112 European doesnt mean shit, greeks are closer to arabs than to nordics, read about taxonomy before shitting crap
@@razielthesniper9241 Wrong Greeks don't cluster near Arabs. I know genetics studies and I understand them. Stop blabbering nonsense. Greeks are closer to Nordics than to Arabs. Get real. Matter of fact, all Europeans share the same distant ancestors. However real Arabs that are not too mixed with black Africans belong to the subgroup of the Caucasian race. Hence Middle Easterners like Arabs are close to Europeans racially, but Southern and North Europeans are closer to each other.
When marble itself is racist.
Completely missed the entire point of the video and are instead focused on a word that the video did not even use.
Dude, you’re an absolutely disingenuous dope.
I don't remember ancient greek,italian(decended from romans) are black. Mmmm...🤔😂😂😂😂
@BLUE DOG "white greeks" is like saying "yellow japanese". Stop catering to them. Greeks are white by default, you dont have to add anything to it
@@AStarInAndromeda what was the point of the video?
now let's look at the facial features
stereomike111
🗣I see a lot of chopped off heads and knocked off nose's at the Louvre and British museum . 😱
ThE BeSt !
Perish the thought, old chap.
Perish the thought.
ThE BeSt ! Yes bc those are parts that get easily broken
white racist people did it to further spread their whitewashing propaganda obviously
haha
Europeans have different skin tones, fools. It doesn't make them a different race.
race is not real
anarki777 Ikr!!!
Many Romans were not Europeans, but were North Africans or people of the Mediterranean.
Midnite Reveries the significant fact is that the native romans are/were native european mediterranean and they were the majority. there are algerian, morrocan, senegalese etc. french nationals but it doesn't change the fact that majority of french are native white europeans.
The issue is that you are applying back upon the past what we see today. At its foundation Rome was a city that was mainly composed of Latins of Indo-European stock mixed with whatever root culture existed before those peoples migrated to Italy. As the empire expanded, Italy (being the center of that empire) saw migrants from all over Europe and Africa move to Italy and join the gene pool. This would have included North Africans, Syrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Iberians, Celts, Germans Slavs and even some Turkic people depending on the make-up of the various steppe confederations that began to descend on Europe in the 4th and 5th centuries AD.
After the fall of Rome in the West Italy saw huge ethnic migrations of Germanic and Slavic peoples under the Lombards, Ostrogoths and later the Normans (though in much smaller numbers).
As time went on there were even significant Arab and North African migrants in the southern parts of Italy and Sicily.
Whatever idea of the "ethnicity" of modern Italians or much less Europeans is pretty much entirely constructed based on our modern idea of how things should look. Most people in modern Italy could probably trace their lineage back to people from pretty much anywhere within Eurasia north of the Sahara.
Race has more to do with facial structure and feature than skin tone. A Japanese man and a German man might have the same skin tone, but are obviously a different race.
A correction: Not races, but ethnicities.
We don't have races
What are these races? It’s only one race
@@FLAMINGHILL00 only dumb asses think we are all the same
@@M4th3u54ndr4d3 Someone should tell BLM
@@jo18533 You can start by educating yourself. There are several extremist groups out there, does this mean that you should remain uneducated?
Of course Greeks and Italians don't have the same skin tone as a german or swede let alone a white marble statue. We live thousands of miles closer to the equator ffs. Literally no one thinks that Cesear or Aristotle were pale anglo saxons because their busts are made of white marble. People know who they represent and its literally the same people who descended from these populations aka Greeks and Italians. You trying to paint these statues as somehow being african or arab or something because they have a darker skin tone than your avarage Scotsman is extremely disingenuous and is literally just misinformation that manipulates the avarage American's completely infantile concept of race (white-north euro, brown-arab, black-african), and is frankly insulting to modern Greeks or Italians. We are not Germans, we are not Arabs, and we definitely are not Africans. We are Mediterranean europeans, simple as that. This video is just a white American "scientist" that is trying to push her political agenda of demonizing whites and Of "We Wuz Kangs" at the same time while completely disregarding the people who these statues actually represent. Please stop with the bs Vice. T. Greek
bravo!
Justinian You realise you do not represent the original greeks right? There were *many* black people in greece as there were whites. Greece was a *mixed* race society.
I love how idiots turn down fact because they are afraid to look at the truth.
You are as closeminded as alot of people on this earth. Try telling the Japanese that they were once Aboriginal people bevause they will not believe. Yet they have actual photos of ancient Japanese people called "Ainu" who are actually aboriginal.
I don't see why it's so hard for Europeans to believe that black people actually did things in the past. Does it embarrass you that your ancestor's lived side by side with blacks or do you just want to live in denial?
The evidence is there. The only person who would not believe is someone who wants to believe otherwise.
Princess Fluffybottom Yo fluffyass do you have any evidence that Italians and Greeks were mixed races ? Do you know for sure that africans were mixed with them ? If you do link me to your source . If you don't keep your mouth shut and dont polute the air with stinky lies
Before spouting stupid shit like that, maybe take into consideration that Greeks where extremely xenophobic and viewed most other cultures as barbaric. You need evidence before you make such wild claims like that. Also having a ridiculously small black population doesn't make a country multiracial.
Princess Fluffybottom I just want to mention, that Japanese are more related to Koreans than Ainu, because they most probably migrated from the peninsula to the Islands around 300 BC
Yeah I'm sure all those Caucasian features aren't intended either.
Features?
@@NaiefThegoony Ok so, idk why ya responded to a 2 year old comment but, since I'm studying to be an anthropologist, maybe I can help.
Depending on your ancestry, different features (called clines) are more likely to manifest. This can be due to cultural practices, but is usually done naturally over time. Currently, there are four major groups that are most easily identifiable (in terms of skulls at least), African, East Asian, European, and Australian (that last one was kinda of strange to me, but they are pretty secluded so it shouldn't be a surprise that they'd vary so differently).
People of Asian descent tend to have smaller palates, while people of African ancestry tend to have wider palates. Females of European descent tend to have larger ulnas than people of African descent. You might wonder about people who are mixed, and the answer is that they simply display traits from both, *but* one is extremely likely to be more dominant than the other.
The terms used to be different and were more racially coded, by the way, but after some racists found out about the differences and tried to use it to justify their racist ideals, it was kind of thought to be in the best interest to move to different terms.
Anyway, the presence of these features in a population help to find the ancestry of the person, determine their gender and age, and get a general picture of who they were (physically) without even meeting them in their lifetime.
Anton Petrov ??? Do u even know what a Caucasian is man root word Cauc Asian 😳😳😳😳
@@nathanielming2067 no dumbo. the word comes from CAUCASUS which is a mountain in eastern europe. In the eighteenth century, the prevalent view amongst European scholars was that the human species had its origin in the region of the Caucasus Mountains. This view was based upon the Caucasus being the location for the purported landing point of Noah's Ark - from whom the Bible states that humanity is descended - and the location for the suffering of Prometheus, who in Hesiod's myth had crafted humankind from clay.
@@nathanielming2067 godamn u have the braincells of a dead moth
Seriously, i appreciate being told that ancient roman statues used to be painted, but the fact that this video is riddled with politics made me lose confidence in the journalistic integrity of vice, if u want to present the politics as the opinion of the interviewee by all means, but by having a title and a narration that actively spews political rhetoric is appaulling.
> journalistic integrity
> VICE
ayyyyyy
Lol goddamnit guys, honestly tho i didnt watch their stuff dese days, i mean i do actually like their earlier work, stuff like the Ukrainian conflict series and certain documentaries here and there.
But i guess its quite way back, i wasnt able to imagine that vice couldve fallen to solicitors from the religion of peace, that is SJWism, that easily.
Your friendly neighborhood Putin Vice and journalistic integrity??? You haven't watched Vice in the last 5 years have you? They never had much integrity BTW and they always had a very left wing bias, maybe you just never noticed.
I personally lost the confidence in vice after they showed the peaceful turn for the right of Poland and said "they were fearful for the future ".
And they say Trump is fear mongering like please...
Actually Roman statues look with reconstructed paints like real white people. Some of them have ginger and blond hair.
www.nicksamoylov.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2.Apollo.jpg
www.nicksamoylov.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Artemis.Pompeii.ArchaeologistVinzenzBrinkmann.jpg
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No humans including white people have the skin color or marble stone. Ridiculous.
>Ethiopia is North African
This tell you everything you need about this "professor"
LoL
"you have people that are from North Africa people that are from modern Nigeria,Ethiopia that are intermix" she said
Thats not what she said
@@M4th3u54ndr4d3 People really just wanted to be mad at this video. They did not watch it
I love the fact that she mentions people from "modern-day Nigeria and Aethiopia" as casual Romans, and as if nobody in Antiquity bat an eyelid when a Nigerian walked through Rome or Naples. Ancient Greeks and Romans thought that these people were outliers and unusual in their appearance compared to themselves, and expressed this clearly enough in their art and literature.
Meanwhile...the foremost, highly touted poet of Rome Virgil...was CLEARLY a SO CALLED BLACK MAN.
www.vroma.org/~jhaughto/Virgil.htm
You people really have no clue about the composition of societies of Antiquity outside of the NARRITIVE youve been Inculcated with.
ammonitida
To say that would be to presume that the artists of antiquity were as ignorant of the hues of men, as you clearly are.
To accept that, would be the equivalent of myself acknowledging that I am as foolish as you claim to be wise on said subject.
Now please, spare me the nonsense.
Bro... Ancient Romans and Greeks were White. Its in Europe. Knock it off. Stop trying to blackwash my European history
You should read the poems of Luis de Camões a Portuguese sailor describing how odd they thought of the Africans and Africans of the Portuguese.
@@Rugidios Your poem reference is a poem that was written in the early 16th century, and these statues in question were erected sometime in the Archaic period dating back to 530 B.C. Your evidence that supposedly proves your point of Italy's and Greek's whiteness is invalid.
The Roman historian Suetonius describes Caesar as "tall of stature with a fair complexion, shapely limbs, a somewhat full face, and keen black eyes"
Even if he was swarthy he would be still white. White people can be swarthy.
@@wisedragon173 Like Melania Trump for example.
Found the Neo Nazi.
@@wisedragon173Swarthoids are not truly white
You'd think nobody would give a shit and this wasn't a problem, but that's where you are wrong kiddo, welcome to VICE
ClexxxOfficial another "hold my beer" moment.
I am shocked, truly shocked! Southern Europeans looked like... southern Europeans!
This is pure propaganda.
@BLUE DOG yeah that's why the Nubians had chariots huh yeah no wheel makes sense a chariot with no wheels crazy and the Ashanti used chariots too
@Eric Beller what's your definition of civilized is it living like the Europeans
@Eric Beller each culture value different things for example Europeans value money for wealth but Arabs value land and cattle for wealth and not necessarily gold or money
@Eric Beller I'm not saying land is not a form of wealth I'm just saying each culture value different things for wealth
@BLUE DOG Africans were busy excelling at math, astronomy, medicine, architecture, and navigation. Where did you think the Greeks and Romans got it from?
I don't know anyone who would look at Julius Ceasar and say he was anything other than white
Up next: First Emperor of China was Sudanese level black.
Follow up by: Vikings: Are they all transgendered?
Anakin Skywalker lol funny you should mention that: the first emperor of Japan WAS black. Look it up 😁
Anakin Skywalker he actually was.
LOL, he wasn't
Actually if u look at those terracotta warrior with paint on, u can see their skin is white as snow. So the ancient chinese emperor WUZ NOT KANG ;).
Yeah, and all the clothes on those sculptures and all the horses and weapons and armour were also naturally white, because that's what I think seeing the white marble.
Not just "white", but actually white like the marble, because that's how skin colour works.
This is so incredibly stupid I honestly couldn't believe you were serious.
What a misleading piece with a misleading title, This shit is borderline historical revisionism.
Septimus Serevus?
All history is revisionist. Interpreting the past is an ongoing exploration of what we think we know and what we steadily learn.
Rikortez she's like "it's a myth we really like telling ourselves" like what? We JUST RECENTLY learned what they could look like with our technology. How are people before us supposed to know what colors and design this bare statue had hundreds upon hundreds of years ago?
If I just found some new knowledge that the rest of the world didn't know and *just* let them know and *immediately* turn around and say "Y'all just love telling yourselves myths!" Before they've had a chance to soak it in, you'd all find me absolutely ridiculous and intolerable. It doesn't make sense.
I'm sure a lot of people think her suggestions are a good idea. Hell, I do. She just needs support and that's what things like this video brings.
As is European colonization.🤭🥴🤣
This is reaching pretty far. Why stop here, let's blame polio on marble statues!
Reaching far? Please speak on Septimus Serevus, Carcalla and Saint Maurice.
hahahahaahh it was so stupid, im not sure if she was trying to say they had a slight tan or she wanted the colors of their clothing painted on
most western histories are bullshit and fabricated, whether they paint the statues white or not.
I'm Italian.
I'm seriously offended by this.
Strarmo Percanriete How so?
Strarmo Percanriete I am HALF Greek Tribe of JAPETH we have a nice tan!
Sicily : almost one millenium of muslim presence and practice..with a significant part of the population whe were simply black...one millenium....
@@doudouthiam8362 It's incredible how much misinformation there is in this statement
@@IlleScrutator my bad, let's be precise 700 years of moors presence [ over whelming majority of black muslim mainly south morocco and Takrur ( current middle senegal valley) ] in all the South of Europe | including over 120 years of presence colonisation of Sicily History matters.[and ther is no such thing as RE conquista 9/09/2019] -History matters
We Wuz Empurroars and Shiiiieeet.
WE WUZ EUROPEANZ
-*SMACKS LIPS* - KAAAANNNNNNGGZZZZ
you know how we feel when you cacss claim north west africa
. Italy and Greece are Africa to you? Hahaha!!!!
*Ancient Black Greek Sphinx* - www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/grece/bigphotos/delphes-delphi-museum-134.jpg
@@daath5114 that's not a black person.
we wuz romans
Vice has blown my mind. Who fucking knew that albinos weren't roman? I've been living my life like a fucking idiot believing that albinos built rome. Thanks to Vice I now realise that romans were african. Thank you Vice for this enlightenment.
Seacht Romans where not Africans Africans has nothing to do with Rome nor europe it's self. Rome and rest of europe has always been a white nation not a black one. Which the evidence lays in ancient txts. But if you new anything they where a tan sinse they lived in the area that was little bit hotter. But we know by actual testing that been done showsbthey where white.
A white person means a European person. Europeans come in three generic types: Nordic, Alpine and Mediterranean. This classicist claims that ancient Italian statues of ancient Italians looked like *gasp* Italians. Truly shocking. This information has always been common knowledge. Roman writers tell us that Caesar had dark eyes, dark hair and a fair complexion (by Roman standards). Augustus had golden hair, golden eyes and was well tanned.
@ first of all, the majority of these statues are pale white, because they are made from pale white marble. Many are different colours, including bronze, black and even purple. When we see a purple marble statue, we don't assume the person depicted had a purple skin tone. That is called stupidity. The fact that many of the statues were actually painted over in antiquity is an interesting curiosity; nonetheless, we still think of them as unadorned marble in our imaginations because that is the way we have always interacted with them, as romantic ruins of our ancestors' lost civilizations.
Multi-ethnic and multi-racial have different meanings. The Classical Greek societies of the Mediterranean were neither of these. They were homogenously populated with ethnic Greeks- people who shared language, religion, culture and blood kinship i.e. biological race. Foreigners were called barbaroi because their foreign languages were said to sound like the barking of dogs to Greek ears. Their physical differences from Greeks were candidly described. Later on, when the Greeks conquered huge empires, they ruled over these peoples and viewed them as subjugated ethnic inferiors. The Romans were more assimilationist, but also more domineering and brutal in their cultural chauvinism. They enslaved hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people and worked them to death in mines and plantations or watched them kill each other or be torn apart by wild animals for entertainment. But then they would sometimes sprinkle the survivors with Roman citizenship. These were not liberal, diverse societies. It was a one-way street of conquest, domination and colonization.
U forgetting Slavic
@@seandilallo8718 The Hellenistic world was quite diverse. When Alexander conquered persia empire they took many wives. The Hellenistic world was quite mixed to this point. The Romans were even more as they allowed anyone in the empire to claim citizenship of Rome and allowed other people within its empire to become emperors
@@Beyonder1987 You're trying too hard to rewrite the past for regime ideology. Alexander's generals divorced their Persian "wives" from his forced Susa weddings as soon as he died. The Hellenistic kingdoms were all ruled by a Greek aristocracy, in Greek cities founded by colonists. As for the Romans, they moved out from Italy and dominated and colonized other lands, massacring or enslaving large populations in the process. The vast bulk of foreigners in the empire were subject peoples, with citizenship sprinkled on some local elites for political purposes.
I wonder what ethnicity of "people" are behind this video.
DardyGamer probably white
Why’d you put the parenthesis around “people” and not ethnicity?
@@andyserdna8752 probs implying they're monsters
That's Anti-Semitic and will not be tolerated by yewtube's terms of service.
nsa hello fellow whites
reported as scam/fraud
Fucking hell.
Roman hierarchy were western European or more commonly known as *white*.
We all know Mediterranean people are tanned.
Well in their defense, the modern concept of "white" or "black" races didn't exist. Plenty of Roman citizens and even emperors came from people's who would not be considered "white" today.
Yes, but to put it simply most of the rich people were white from what we know now. Why this is relevant is most if not all of the statues are of rich people.
Most of the statues come from around 70bc-400ad when the Empire was very centralized around Latium and the northern states. While in the periods of 400ad-1400ad you will find the Roman remnants in Byzantium had a much more cultural melting pot given that their empire was focused in the east leading to many Hunnic, Slavic and Middle Eastern peoples moving in.
Lol. The modern concept of the white "race" didn't even exist 2 centuries ago. Ask an Anglo-Saxon man of the 19th Century if the italians or Irish were members of the same race as he was.
@Primarch Alpharius
Well no. There were plenty of wealthy North Africans, Egyptians, and non hellenic peoples from Syria and Judea(like Arabs) who were wealthy, influential, and powerful citizens(even including emperors). This was the case even before the Edict of Caracalla in the early 3rd century. Afterwords, every male was a citizen, wealthy and poor.
They pale in comparison to the Romans.
where are these people that she is talking about? do they actually exist or has she created them in order to have a argument?
I see why you've written what you wrote and I get it. It's complicated as it depends on how we define conspiracy to some degree, and then we have to evaluate the harm both separately and if collective decisions among peoples separated by time and distance somehow worked together to put forward an agenda.
Spoiler: marble is just an enduring way to showcase art as rock in general if generally left alone protected from drastic weathering and such keeps a lot longer than wood or paint.
Daniel Bishop What's your point? Are you arguing that Greeks do not exist anymore?
So because paint which as far as this video shows was just used to decorate wardrobe and give basic caucasian skin tones wore away or was removed that means it is racist. I'm pretty sure 99% of Europeans aren't pale white so to say that this argument is grasping at straws gives it too much credit
I don't know what skin tones these ancient people had, but based on these statues, they apparently all had abs ;-)
That's because Rome is what called a "Total War Nation". Their military strength is their identity. Most of Roma grew up having some kind of military training and continue to lead an active life throughout their life. They dislike the weak you see
No offense but why are Americans so obsessed with race? I study archaeology in Germany, and at no point did we learn about the skin colour of the ancient people. Because WHO CARES?
Kat Well, if you're so smart, perhaps you should be able to figure it out.
Because different groups of people have different behaviors and we want to be at one with our people who behave like us, as others like to be grouped with people who behave like them. When japanese people born in the US go back to Japan they are thought of as more forward and even a bit rude, because they are subjected to a european/black/hispanic culture, when Americans go to Europe they are thought much in the same way. These behaviors of some of other races doesnt align well with our own, and people are trying to force a state where we totally arent balkanized, but it will backlash with extremism because everyone with eyes can tell different races behave differently.
>inb4 muh society makes them act that way theyre oppressed
Because slavery happened and we have to keep reminding ourselves that it happened
In doing so we just continue to propagate the idea that skin color separates us
In propagating the idea that skin color separates us, black people and white people do everything in their power not to have anything in common with the other
Continuing to divide us
America! Such a _great_ country..
+Kat, Germany was never obsessed with race?
Amanda Tessmer By "WHO CARES?" you probably should have realized that he doesn't care nor was he insinuating that he's smarter then anyone.
the statues with the paint still on them look white, what is everyone talking about?
As well, they're facial features are emblematically white.
So the paint is white, and they have white features, what is vice talking about?
They're just trying to stoke racial tension.. same old, same old..
Some crazy people with too much time on their hands pushing an agenda ...Italians are ....Italian...light olive skin blue eyes blonde hair....if that's white...then sure...but they definitely weren't Ethiopian...those people lived in Ethiopia...ergo...them being called Ethiopian
Ayoo, hol up, hol up... So u be sayin, we wuz civilization builders n shieet?
Dale Cooper Still contemplating wether or not you're kidding
hmmmmmmm? I wonder........
Dale Cooper is that a reference to that black guy whi was reacting to the history of the world?
alexandre007opa He is mocking those who claim ancient Egypt royalty were “black” wE wUz kINgS aNd sHiEt
Your English and spelling is horrible😈😈😈😈
We can use ultraviolet light to see the trace amounts of color that these statues were painted with. Guess what; they are white, as in Europid, as in Caucasian, as in WHITE PEOPLE. Here are some examples of what they looked like:
-The Goddess Athena is blonde haired and blue eyed
-Augustus Caesar was a red head with blue eyes
-Alexander the Great had blonde hair and brown or green eyes
-Julius Caesar had brown hair and gray-blue eyes (he went bald and he got a lot of shit for that as well)
-The Greeks were white, they were as varied in phenotype combination as the white race in general is (black to blonde hair, brown green and blue eyes, pale skin to medium brown skin). They looked like any white person you see today, they weren't middle eastern or African looking at all and any attempt to say that they were is cultural appropriation of Western civilization and the White Race.
People always talk about "Mediterranean" as though that's some completely different thing to the rest of Europe. It's not. The ancient Romans and Greeks were white. The reason that some Mediterraneans have the non-white look (brown skin, black hair, black eyes, you know what I'm talking about. All non-white people are essentially the same, they all have fucking black hair and brown eyes and brown skin) is because the Moore's conquered and colonized parts of Europe and the Mediterranean for 700 years. Before that they were all white. White people are the most diverse and beautiful.
Regal Render
hhHHAhahaha
Sure!!!
Septimus Serevus? Caracalla?
Well weren't as white as a Scandinavian Viking duh, they were tan bruh
Aaaaaand, here we go again with Vice.
I know, information sucks.
What has that to do with anything?
JJ Keller Bet you follow Tariq
why do you even watch this? it's almost like you're looking to be outraged.
akkadian times I'm actually a fan, and we have to let vice know that they're retarded and going downhill with these stories
I like how every ''Coloured'' statue they showed was still a tan white person. it is almost like people from the countries back than was not so different from the ones today huh?
@English Teacher wtf are you on about?
@@dagalealtd4888 Many mediterranean societies were multi-ethnic. You might be surprised to know that jesus was way darker in skin complexion than what is usually depicted of him.
English Teacher you can’t make claims without context it’s ridiculous
Anti-white lunacy is seemingly boundless.
Yes Vice, because of the whiteness of marble sculptures I always believed that the people represented by them all resembled those white aliens from the movie Prometheus. It is only in recent times that they magically developed skin tones.
You guys blew it for yourselves once again.
really
Tesla Yes, this is really happening......
At this point just I'm praying for an Asteroid. I'm done. Time to reset the table. Well played VICE.
Yao Guai 😂
ikr 😐
Best one word comment of the year.
now try telling people that those who conquered the americas werent white, ie the portugese and italians and spaniards?..
WHOOO thought greek people were porcelain white?
I do heavy lapidary work and I also mine a wide variety of stones.
News flash vice: marble comes in wide variety of colors but white is the MOST COMMONLY MINED. It sits closer to the surface and is simply the cheapest and most readily available.
Nice try though. lololol
This story is absurd.
i came to see the shit storm
We welcome you. :)
The context is very misleading. The desperation to claim that something is not what we actually see is sad too. As a Hellenic person who has lived in Greece, who has a family business involved with the ancient historical sites of Greece I find these "scholars" very misinformed and fixated on the upper layer of a major American complex. The true as most non- Americans know is that Greek people looked just like most of the people in Greece look today. That look is indeed a Mediterannean look that does not include the features of an Anglo-Saxon nor a Black African person. These statues have lost their pigmentation, but have also been manipulated like most of Greece's works have been. The focus of these statues isn't the colors though. The sculptors were aware that pigments fade. The importance of their work is in the quality of marble and in the emotion and expression that is captured in stillness. Ultimately, as a Greek/ Hellenic person, I find the approach to this topic completely unnecessary and very much offending! Offending that the title or "audience catcher" compares neo-nazi's to Greece. What a disappointment. A smarter approach would be to visit Greece and speak with scholars there who can provide information on all aspects of Greek art. Additionally, just about every culture has appropriated Greek culture to fit their agenda or lifestyle you haven't seen us parading around or crying that everyone is using us or taking meaningful things from us. All we ask for is our marbles back from the UK. :/
History is way more complex than this simple-minded finger-pointing act that we see today.
Anglo-Saxons can not bring themselves to admit us Mediterraneans have founded their civilization. In 1900 they claimed "original ancient Greeks" were "blonde lily-white nordic aryans", then they got debunked. Now they claim "original ancient Greeks" were "black transgenders from the Congo". It's like they have the genetic drive to try and twist our history, what a shameful people.
@@ithrbeshojfhe542 HAHAHAHAHA!!!
PATHETIC!
WTF? They're just white with tan, cause they live on the coast of the Mediterranean, truly a revolutionary discovery!
Black is what Dey said 😂 they are black ppl 😂hahaaaaa
we wuz romanz n shieet
I actually have no problem with having a placard next to the statue showing what it did look like originally or a projection showing the same. I've been to museums that have done that. What does annoy me though is how VICE continuously seems to push race as an issue and how oftentimes the people that seem most concerned about it are wealthy white people.
Museums should definitely do projections or overlays or even models of what the statues would have looked like thousands of years ago. Large marble rooms with projectors, models, or anything that could help the viewer accurately picture themselves 2 thousand years ago would bring alot of younger generations in too. I'd think it would be cool anyway
Imagine the conclusions about "diversity" when Future scholar finds the ruins of the Statue of Liberty and a can of Jolly Green Giant peas.
Wait..... So does this mean that the female model for the Statue of Liberty wasn't actually green!? Mind-freaking-blown.... I knew it was just a conspiracy from the lizard people. Alex Jones was right.
Yep because only people with marble statue skin color are white. So even Germans, Brits or Scandinavians wit their pinkish white,or ruddy skin color are not white.
This video could have just been about repainting/repairing ancient statues to their former glory. That would have been fine and many would have found it interesting.
Instead Vice added race into a video where it did not belong.
Not satisfied with crowbaring race into every issue in the US the eternal Amerifat has decided to try exporting its strange obsession with race to Europe.
I apologize that the English actor portraying an Italian emperor was too white
WE WUZ CEECARZ N SHIT YO
Everyone knows the Romans and Greeks were white. Trying to distort that fact by pretending that being radially white means being albino white is hilarious.
My favorite is when they say people Jesus couldn't be white bc he was a person of those lands.....
Rome ruled the world, white people were everywhere. Not saying Jesus was white, not that it matters, but it was definitely a possibility. Caesar ordered the census
She speaks what people don't want to hear.
So, the question: what does "being white" really means? Because, well:
I'm a Brazilian man, In my country I'm considered white. I have a lebanese friend, who happens to be whiter than me. One of my ancestors was from Germany, and she believed in white superiority, yet, she also believed that poles and russians were inferior to other europeans...
And I've seen some Italian guys throwing the same argument: they see themselfs as white europeans, but they considered russians, who are whiter than them, as non-european/ inferior...
This discussion about race and skincolor is pointless...
Today I learned that white marble is racist...
Guess I’d better tear our the Carrera marble tile in my bathroom and the marble counters on my kitchen island. I don’t want anyone to think I’m a Nazi because I like traditional materials in my home decor.
Better toss out any milk you might have while your at it. That's been racist for years now
The reporters last name is KANG. You cant make this shit up.
fu man I read this and laughed so hard i spit cereal all over my mac. WEEE WUZZZZ ROMANSSS
ROFL FOR DAYS
Oh okay. Italians looked like Italians. Mindblowing, really.
3:31 but even with all that paint he clearly looks white anyway, what's the point?
*facepalm*
"I want my new born son Lequan to know, he, wuz a Kang".
*my wife's son
it's appalling that american black infants are being subjugated to atrocities that happened 20 or 800 years ago. is there a p.o. box where i can send Lequan reparations? i just want what's best for him and it's all up to me.
Damian Louden Aw, you don't know math. So cute that you still try though.
And apparently you don't understand hyperbole. Unlike you, I don't think being stupid is cute. God help you.
I didn't start throwing anything. I responded to a lame meme which is meant to mock black people. Why don't you fucking read the OP's comment.
"Protip: If you are going to start insulting someone, don't get defensive and play hurt victim when they respond in the same way, kek."
That's the exactly the point I'm illustrating. Holy shit, you all are stupid. I'm done.
I guess Mark Twain was right: “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
the clouds are racist too. they're have white color in supposed to yellow or black
Well this was stupid. We've known forever that the Greek statutes were painted. The Romans tended to for straight-white, but did paint/gild many statues as well. As for her argument, I've read it and it's based on her own cherry-picked bigotry.
Jeez, you guys have just completely given up on the truth. I watched you when you started and weren't known or popular. Your popularity has ruined you.
Mahatma Kane Jeeves
No. The truth is: The Statues were colored.
And now they're not. When you leave something for thousands of years, paint will wear off. There's no political agenda, they weren't painted white, it's MARBLE. IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THAT COLOUR.
0m They weren't painted opaque white, but where painted as people that would be considered white today. The subconscious proposition of this video is that the scale of whiteness is
bad/good, which is literal race baiting steaming trash.
That's a very fair point you brought up, I never caught that! Are pale Mediterraneans "bad"? Is being a "darker" Mediterranean good? Definitely race baiting shite.
Yeah, they used to actually do good stuff.
You have got to be kidding me
the painted statue looks like an ordinary western european to me. If being that colour makes you non-white then who exactly is white...albinos? gingers? thats a normal colour even for a northern european
"This past spring, Sarah Bond found herself at the center of an unexpected controversy." Oh, this makes her sound so innocent! Yet look at the title of her article: "Whitewashing Ancient Statues: Whiteness, Racism, And Color In The Ancient World." It would hardly be possible to come up with a more deliberately provocative title than that!
No, it wasn't innocent at all. As this video makes clear, it was an effort to parlay the unremarkable historical fact of polychromy into some sort of demonstration that ancient Rome was racially multicultural in the modern sense, full of Nigerians and the like. And yet even after color was restored, every human image in the video was, by modern standards, clearly Caucasian! So what's up with that? Well perhaps, in Ms. Bond's own words at the end of the video, for some people -- especially lefty classics professors! -- a multiracial Rome is "a fiction that we really like telling ourselves."
videos like this are slowly turning me into a white nationalist
Alex Šani me too.Sadly I am a romanian of southern european descent and liberals and white nationalists do not consider me white because I have brown eyes/hair
Stan Nicolae. Bullshit mate. I'm a white nationalist myself and every other white nationalist knows damn well Romanians are white. There's lots of Romanian white nationalists too. Nothing wrong with it mate.
Are you a gypsy? Take a DNA test Stan. Or upload a pic to imgur of your skin and/or face.
You have brown skin
There were some north africans in Italy, therefore Italians are black.
-Vice
I...thought everyone already knew this.
They probably also changed the facial features of the statues to make them appear more white...
I’m Mediterranean and honestly offended by this..
USA doesn't consider spanish people to be white, check it out lol
Only US-Americans can in modern times think in the issue of "race" in EVERY thematic!!
Is this the fucking Onion News?
I'm a tile setter from morocco and all i can say is that marbles from greece ( ariston white and nestos white ) and italy ( carrara and galacata ) are white
Why Vice isn't meant to be watched.
WE WUZ EMPERORZ N SHIET
You know when they repainted the statues they actually looked paler than the image I had in my head of the Romans.
Ancient Italians didn't look like Northern Europeans? Damn, this must mean they weren't white!
See the like to dislike ratio VICE? Learn from it
Vivie 0X0 This is not about being popular... unfortunately it not about being correct either. It's pure, unadulterated progressive Ideology.
STOP LYING VICE
And there was me thinking that that the romans were the colour of printer paper, What would we do without you Vice
Next video by Vice: "White paper helps authors whitewash books."
Next time on Vice: The vikings were actually black?!?!!
pOtato Lord - Why?
What are Vikings and why do you care so much for them? Blacks don’t believe in Vikings or care for their scarce historical information
This has been known for years.
So you're saying italians aren't white as marble all over their bodies? Who would have thought!
A projection over a statue would be so fucking intrusive.
Polychromy it's an academic term and means 'lots of paint'. Wrong. It means many colors. 'Poli'= many and ''cromia'= colors. You bollocks!
We need to stop projecting "modern faces" on ancient people. Colour means nothing. Caucasians can be white, bronze or brown. "Black" Africans can be pale like Khoisan. Indian Tamils can be black yet look nothing like Africans. It shouldn't matter whether statues were white or black or anything else.
I think it's common knowledge now that Rome and Greece were mixed cultures
No most people see Rome and Greece civs as white because they were lol
I'm all about bringing history alive, and the multi-ethnic and urban connectivity in the ancient world is usually glossed over; however, this video is a ridiculous example for numerous reasons. This is long, but as a history nerd, this just irks me on many levels:
1. Whitewashing implies a conscious bias on some level to minimize/erase non-white influences. No one was like hiding polychromy on these statues. The video literally admits that the technology to know that there was even color and what those colors were is very new. Fifty years ago when Rome first began being depicted in film and popular imagery, they literally thought the statues were marble white. More recent works, like HBO's Rome, do depict polychromy.
2. No one literally thought they looked like marble. Everyone has always known the native inhabitants of Rome were Italian and looked like today's Italians. In fact, they may have actually looked a bit whiter as a good deal of modern North African admixture in places like Spain and Italy are related to the Muslim Conquest period, not the Classical period. There were Muslim cities and areas of control from like 700 - 1000 CE in Italy.
3. What was underestimated was the level of urban diversity in pretty much all ancient civilizations. We know that Rome was a very diverse place with citizens, mercenaries, and traders from everywhere from Britain to Sub-Saharan Africa and as far East as at least India. Walking the streets of Rome, especially around the market, you could see all kinds of people. There would have been white, black, and Semitic troops in the Roman army. This fact was often glossed over in older portrayals, but again as we better understand Rome, this has changed. Many new portrayals of Rome show this fact. In HBO's Rome again we have characters interacting with African, Jewish, Hindu, Germanic, and Greco-Roman people. Even horrifically inaccurate series like Britannia have a black legionary. This isn't just a white thing though. People have this fallacious belief that prior to the modern age we lived in little cultural isolates, and it leads to almost all cultures claiming that their culture is this wholly unique thing they made all by themselves. The truth is far from it. There are glass beads made by the glassier of King Tut's court in burials in Denmark from 3,400 years ago. Again, this is less whitewashing than a generally held historical fallacy among almost all people of all races who aren't history buffs.
4. Just because Rome was multi-ethnic doesn't mean it was equal opportunity. Though Rome wasn't a racist society like we saw in the 50's USA, it wasn't unicorns and equality either. The Roman caste system was important and they were ethnocentric. There may have been tons diversity in Rome, but the power wasn't shared equally. Power was consolidated in Latin Patrician families. They weren't erecting marble statues in honor of the Indian merchant who had a cool ship or the Sub-Saharan baker with the best street food. The vast, vast majority of statues are going to be of people who would have been ethnically Latin or of another Italic tribe. Also, their deities were viewed as being of a similar ethnic appearance as themselves. They weren't making a black Venus or a Persian Mars, may get an Egyptian Isis. To argue that these statues would reflect the diversity of Rome would be as absurd as arguing that 1950's media in the USA equally reflected the diversity of America, and the reality being due to the ease of media production, minorities probably had better visibility in 1950's America than in late Republican Rome.
5. The discussion of the variety of skin tones in mosaic and other art is disingenuous. The implication is that this art depicts a wide variety of races, not classes. Skin color has been a regular marker of class in almost all societies where sun exposure causes darker skin (not just in Europe). The lightest skin is usually depicted in noble women to imply they never worked outside. Noble men are a bit darker, since some outdoor activity is required for manliness (hunting, learning arms) - but no laboring, warriors classes are darker, and peasants/slaves are depicted the darkest to show how they spend all of their time outside laboring in the sun. The same is clearly depicted in this Chinese art (www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Story-of-Mulan.jpg) but there's no question these people are all Chinese. Again, the vast majority of artistic depiction in Greece and Rome will be of people of their own ethnicity who hold the power.
6. Mediterranean people's whiteness seems to be a concept of convenience for people discussing race. When we discuss cases of Mediterranean people obviously acting out of racial exceptionalism they are white. Nobody questions if Columbus is a white sociopath or if the conquistadors were whites committing genocide. Then when it's more expedient to make them less white such as to say "Rome wasn't built by white people," all of a sudden now they're not. Mediterranean people are white. The fact that for certain slivers of history they didn't get full whiteness (just like Irish but they're totally white too) doesn't make them not white. The fact they have brown eyes, black hair, and olive complexion doesn't either. Tons of white people aren't blond haired, blue eyed Scandinavians. They practiced European Christianity, engaged in their own manifest destiny doctrine, viewed non-European people as sub-human, and had race-based policies where they settled. We have white nationalist movements in Spain, Italy, and Greece.
This doesn't mean that the development of Greece and Rome weren't influenced by other people. Of course it was. They didn't develop in some weird bubble, but to be influenced is not the same as being built by. Egypt was heavily influenced by Macedonia and ruled for centuries by the Hellenic Ptolemies, but Egyptian culture was still something uniquely Egyptian and built buy Egyptian people. All of the urban societies shaped and were shaped by outside influences; however, all were predominately built by their own people. This is why Roman colonies were Romanized with Roman customs overlaying/replacing their own. Greek colonies were Hellenized.
7. Finally, for all her assertions, she didn't have a single example statue that was non-European in phenotype. If you're thesis is that these statues were actually a cast of racially diverse characters, then providing some illustrative examples would be expected. Not a single statue was painted with skin color or sculpted with a phenotype that would suggest anything other than Mediterranean European origins.
Fucks sake vice this is why trump won
Yes. Because of white supremacists, you're correct.
Charmanderaznable no sweetie, because people are sick and tired of being called white supremacists & girls like you being annoying sensitive brats. I'm gay & I hate the left for making me feel like a victim
Charmanderaznable no he won because people like you called everyone who agreed with even some of his policies white supremacists
Charmanderaznable Nice reply, snowflake.
Vivie 0X0 historical facts hurt your feelings, snowflake?
really?
Does finding out Caesar was darker than his statue depicts change history? I love how we learn more and have greater knowledge but when people refuse that information being shown because they like the fairy tale version than the messy mixed raw history of the human race it’s sad.
Holy shit, Meds aren't fully White like the snow of Norway
who would of guessed