International Mathematical Olympiad 2017 Problem 2

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  • čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
  • #IMO #IMO2012 #MathOlympiad
    Here is the solution to Problem 2 of IMO 2017!!
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Komentáře • 86

  • @DaveyJonesLocka
    @DaveyJonesLocka Před 3 lety +46

    I love that you not only show clever moves, but you also try to show the insight and motivation behind them. When I teach, I never just do something because it’s the next move. I try to show students how to analyze a current situation for motivation behind the next move.

  • @BucifalulR
    @BucifalulR Před 3 lety +24

    A fix for the hole in the proof at @10:50 where r and s are said to exist and also be REAL. This fix was taken from the comments below (@vindex7) and a friend's suggestion: we can assume a < b (we're considering aribtrary a, b such that a is different than b). Then we have rs=a-1 and r+s=b, so by Vieta's formulas, r and s are the roots of the equation z^2-bz+a-1=0, which has discriminant b^2-4(a-1) > b^2-4(b-1)=(b-2)^2>=0, so r,s do exist and are indeed real numbers.

  • @davidblauyoutube
    @davidblauyoutube Před 3 lety +15

    On the assumption that f(x) is differentiable, there's a shortcut as follows:
    1. Let y=0 to give f(0) = f(f(0)f(x)) + f(x).
    2. Differentiate to give 0 = f'(f(0)f(x))*f(0)f'(x)+f'(x).
    3. Case I: f'(x)=0 identically, so f(x)=c. Recover f(x)=0 as in the video.
    4. Case II: f'(x)!=0, so -1 = f'(f(0)f(x))*f(0). Since f'(x) is not identically zero, f(x) is multivalued and therefore f'(y) is constant (on setting y=f(0)f(x)). Write f(x) = ax + b; then -1 = f'(b(ax+b))*b = a*b so a = -1/b and f(x) = b - x/b. Back sub into the original formula yields b^2 = 1 and we recover the two solutions f(x) = 1 - x and f(x) = -1 + x. //

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 Před 3 lety +12

      This is true, but you are not allowed to actually assume f is differentiable.

    • @-sab5226
      @-sab5226 Před 2 lety +1

      no you can't do that

    • @bourhinorc1421
      @bourhinorc1421 Před 2 lety

      nope no differentiable

    • @pepefrogic3034
      @pepefrogic3034 Před 8 měsíci

      You also assumed that f is onto if you have f is onto then you get setting f(x) to be a, in the case f(1) is 0 and f(0) is 1 that f(a) = 1-a

    • @prod_EYES
      @prod_EYES Před 3 měsíci

      Calculus not allowed

  • @hodesdjole1771
    @hodesdjole1771 Před rokem +4

    most of these functional equations have constant or linear solutions, in rare cases they have more exotic ones (solutions i mean), i guess that kinda means that imposing crazy functional conditions only results in trivial answers but then again there have been functional problems that have had very exotic solution, for example "the functional square root" and such, from which one can imagine a fruitfull amount of similair investigations of functions

  • @klarkunskap1090
    @klarkunskap1090 Před 3 lety +18

    thanks for the functional equations, love them! Thanks for listening to your followers, keep up the great content.

  • @nikhileshkrishna889
    @nikhileshkrishna889 Před 3 lety +16

    Genius trick

  • @Stelios2711
    @Stelios2711 Před 3 lety +6

    Not so intuitively motivated, but I guess that it's becuase of the difficulty of the problem.

  • @pratikmaity4315
    @pratikmaity4315 Před 3 lety +4

    If f(f(0)^2))=f(1)=0 then why is it necessary that f(0)^2=1?

    • @aniruddhvasishta8334
      @aniruddhvasishta8334 Před 3 lety +1

      He assumed that f(1) is the only way to get 0

    • @franolich3
      @franolich3 Před 10 měsíci

      @@aniruddhvasishta8334 But why is this assumption valid? Originally he showed that there exists an "a" such that f(a)=0. He did not prove there is only one such zero of f.

    • @maxmuster6390
      @maxmuster6390 Před měsícem

      He says we have at least one a that satisfies f(a)=0 because of f(f(0)^2)=0. Then he creates this construct, which includes the term a/(a-1). If the construct is valid f(x)=0 follows as shown. If the construct is invalid because a/(a-1) is invalid f(x)=0 does not follow. So he has to recalculate the whole thing just for a=1 for all other cases the construct holds and f(x)=0.

  • @ImaginaryMdA
    @ImaginaryMdA Před 3 lety +2

    I could prove the three solutions over the rational numbers, but I had no idea how to increase the scope of my solution to include all real numbers.
    The step I didn't see was the "a=r+s, b=rs+1" trick, and because of that I couldn't prove injectivity.

    • @videolome
      @videolome Před 3 lety +1

      You didn’t see it because the proof is wrong. Take for example a=5 and b=2. Then
      (x-r)(x-s)=x^2-2x+4
      There are no real numbers that are roots of this polynomial.
      Will he recognize his mistake? I don’t think so...

    • @noctnightcr9918
      @noctnightcr9918 Před 2 lety

      can't u just swap a and b by symmetry? So rs+1=2, r+s=5, which obviously has solutions as setting rs=1 gives r+1/r=5 where LHS is continuous for r>0

    • @Deathranger999
      @Deathranger999 Před 2 lety +3

      @@videolome The commenter who mentioned we can swap by symmetry is right, but another argument is this. I think because of the linearity (f(x + 1) = f(x) + 1), you can just let b' = b + k for some large integer k, and a' = a + k. Then clearly f(b') = f(a') still. The discriminant is b^2 - 4a + 4, so since b^2 grows much faster than -4a, we will be able to find a k such that the discriminant b'^2 - 4a' + 4 is positive (this argument can be made more rigorous). At that point we can use the same argument to prove that b' = a', from which it follows that b = a.

  • @mokouf3
    @mokouf3 Před 3 lety

    Another trick:
    Let f(x) = Sum(a_k*x^k, k=1 to n)
    put y=x, do polynomial order check, you will find that only possible value for n is n=1.
    Now let f(x) = ax+b, solve for a first, then b.
    I think this method is faster, but I don't know if this is a method that should be used.

    • @DungNguyen-ti4hg
      @DungNguyen-ti4hg Před 3 lety +2

      Your solution not good. Because we have to find all of f. Not only polynomials

    • @mokouf3
      @mokouf3 Před 3 lety

      ​@@DungNguyen-ti4hg My concept: All functions can be expressed with Taylor Series. Sounds good now?

    • @Deathranger999
      @Deathranger999 Před 2 lety +1

      @@mokouf3 That's not true though.

    • @nicholaskhawli4330
      @nicholaskhawli4330 Před rokem

      @@mokouf3 all analytic functions over C can be represented as Taylor series for all x in R which isn't ALl solutions

  • @liuyxpp
    @liuyxpp Před 4 měsíci

    Let y=0 to give f(0) = f(f(0)f(x)) + f(x), let a = f(0), then f(af(x)) = a - f(x). Let t = f(x), then f(at) = a - t. Let t = s/a, then f(s) = a - s/a. s is in the domain, so we just have f(x) = a - x/a. From the video, we have a = +/-1, so f(x) = 1 - x or f(x) = x - 1.

    • @mrityunjaykumar4202
      @mrityunjaykumar4202 Před 21 dnem

      when you took f(x)=t and then came to conclude that f(at)=a-t.. this is wrong because here you're considering t can be any real number from the domain but its actually f(x) hence it is the image of x and not all real numbers from domain can be represented by f(x).. it can only be possible when every element in the domain is the image of some elements in the domain itself.

  • @drewmichael3986
    @drewmichael3986 Před 3 lety +4

    how do you prove that there exists r,s such that a = rs+1 and b = r+s? How about when a = 2, b = 1?

    • @letsthinkcritically
      @letsthinkcritically  Před 3 lety +1

      As f(x+1) - f(x) = 1, we can translate a,b to higher or lower values together, and we can always translate to certain values such that such r,s exist.

    • @drewmichael3986
      @drewmichael3986 Před 3 lety +1

      oh nice thanks :)

    • @vindex7
      @vindex7 Před 3 lety +4

      An easier way: swap a and b, making a=1, b=2. If ab^2-4(b-1)=(b-2)^2 is positive and r,s exist.

    • @dm9696
      @dm9696 Před 3 lety

      @@letsthinkcritically But how can we guarantee that just because we can translate a and b as we like?

    • @videolome
      @videolome Před 3 lety

      The proof is wrong. This crucial step was not done correctly. He doesn’t understand what he is doing. There are no real r, s that satisfy the equations for a=5 and b=2. It is very basic math, but he doesn’t see it...

  • @Mega11041104
    @Mega11041104 Před 10 měsíci

    fが単射であることを示すためにf(a)=f(b)、a=rs+1、b=r+sと置いてますが、このようなr,sが存在するかどうか示していません。

  • @SONUKUMAR-mb2sp
    @SONUKUMAR-mb2sp Před 3 lety +6

    Which book , should i prefer for such functional equation problems

    • @brendanchamberlain9388
      @brendanchamberlain9388 Před 3 lety +2

      Although not specifically for functional equation problems, the book from AOPS on Intermediate Algebra has a good chapter on functional equations.

    • @letsthinkcritically
      @letsthinkcritically  Před 3 lety +5

      I learn functional equations by reading problems and solutions on AoPS.

  • @saatvik7643
    @saatvik7643 Před 3 lety +2

    THANKS FOR THE VIDEOS SIR ....REALLY YOUR OP !!! YOUR CHANNEL REALLY HELPS ME TO THINK CRITICALLY.
    CAN U SUGGEST ME A BOOK FOR NUMBER THEORY I AM A BEGINNER IN NUMBER THEORY .....

    • @lovrodrofenik1455
      @lovrodrofenik1455 Před 3 lety

      This is the book Modern Olympiad Number Theory by Aditya Khurmi

  • @timetraveller2818
    @timetraveller2818 Před 6 měsíci

    At 6:33 you assumed f is injective
    f(f0)²)=0=f(1) Does NOT imply f(0)²=1

    • @Kettwiesel25
      @Kettwiesel25 Před 5 měsíci

      He did not assume injectivity. He knew that 1 was the only root of f because otherwise there is a other than 1 s.t. f(a)=0 in which case he had proved before that f(0)=0 and based on that f=0

  • @tomykill5232
    @tomykill5232 Před 29 dny

    Nice

  • @harisshaqiri4785
    @harisshaqiri4785 Před rokem

    fun fact my teacher made this problem and he posted it to the imo

  • @tonyha8888
    @tonyha8888 Před rokem

    Thanks for a very nice solution. please can you solve "British Mathematical Olympiad Round 2" 2012 problem 2. Thanks in advance!

  • @hodesdjole1771
    @hodesdjole1771 Před rokem +1

    this is some real fucking multidimensional chess shit right here dude smh

  • @bidish2224
    @bidish2224 Před 3 lety +1

    Great👍👍👍

  • @mcwulf25
    @mcwulf25 Před 2 lety

    Lost me on the injective bit. Why f(a) - 1?

  • @fipillo4658
    @fipillo4658 Před 2 lety

    Why if a = 1 then f(1)=0 ? It isn't clear to me

  • @justins1146
    @justins1146 Před 2 lety

    Thanks

  • @jofx4051
    @jofx4051 Před 3 lety

    I think we should watch Dr Peyam lecturers for this 😂

  • @tonystarklive9018
    @tonystarklive9018 Před 3 lety +1

    If a=rs + 1 then f(rs)=f(a-1) instead of f(a)-1 i think there something wrong

  • @chris-ph6so
    @chris-ph6so Před 2 lety +2

    I am currently in high school and I am asking myself if those kind of problems are also hard for people who actually studied mathematics ?

    • @bayezidx
      @bayezidx Před 2 lety

      practice makes it easier

    • @marcusrees5364
      @marcusrees5364 Před 2 lety

      Hi chris, I just finished a bachelor's degree in maths. These sorts of problems are still hard; they require totally different tools and ways of thinking than the sort of content usually covered at university.

    • @chris-ph6so
      @chris-ph6so Před 2 lety +1

      @@marcusrees5364 okay thanks for the answer becuase im in highschool and i realy like math but thoose problems are really hard

  • @gastoncastillo9946
    @gastoncastillo9946 Před 3 lety

    How do you know that 1 is the only number which its image under f is 0?

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 Před 3 lety +4

      Because it was proven in the video that if f(a) = 0, then a + a/(a - 1) = a^2/(a - 1) or a = 1. a + a/(a - 1) = a^2/(a - 1) implies f(x) = 0 for all x, so any other solutions necessarily satisfy that if f(a) = 0, then a = 1.

  • @user-qg6do2xn9t
    @user-qg6do2xn9t Před 3 lety +4

    Hard problems

  • @adchayansivakumar1667
    @adchayansivakumar1667 Před 3 měsíci

    f(x)

  • @bayezidx
    @bayezidx Před 2 lety

    How did you replace f(b) by f(a) at 12:42??

    • @thomy2562
      @thomy2562 Před 7 měsíci

      We are proving injectivity so we chose such a and b that f(a)=fb)

  • @vtk5581
    @vtk5581 Před 3 lety

    could you solve me this one: find all integers x;y;z such that: 1+2^x=3^y+2^2z+1

    • @rendyadinata5534
      @rendyadinata5534 Před 3 lety +1

      The only solution is (x,y,z)=(1,0,0), (2,1,0) since for x,y,z > 1the LHS will be odd but the RHS will be even. (For x,y,z positive) ( what's left Is just to prove that there are no solutions x,y for x,y>1 2^x=3^y+1).

    • @vtk5581
      @vtk5581 Před 3 lety

      @@rendyadinata5534 well I already solved it 3 weeks ago. Anyways, thank you!

  • @dominiquebercot9539
    @dominiquebercot9539 Před 3 lety

    Si f(0)=0 on a f(0*f(x))+f(x)=0, donc f(x)=0 pour tout x
    Si f(0)=a, on obtient f(f(x)*a)+f(x)=a, puis on pose f(x)=t/a, on a alors f(t)+t/a=a, donc f(t)=a-t/a
    puis’ f(x*y)=a-xy/a et f(f(x)*f(y))+ f(x+y)=a-xy/a^3 (apres4lignes de calculs)
    Il y a égalité si a^3=a, donc à =1 ou -1
    Mes calculs me semblent moins compliqués que les votres. Sont.ils corrects?
    Amitiés de France

  • @shafikbarah9273
    @shafikbarah9273 Před rokem

    Easy

  • @bertrandviollet8293
    @bertrandviollet8293 Před 3 lety +1

    I don't understand the beginning,let f(x)=c then c+c =c

  • @chiranjibimahapatra708

    What is going on😕😕😕

  • @sarvendrashukla8051
    @sarvendrashukla8051 Před 2 lety

    How can we prove the function is surjective?

  • @timehasstoppedandthefunbeg4467

    God, i really hate these kind of question