Occult Context of Joseph Smith's 1823 Discovery of Gold Plates Dan Vogel
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- The purpose of this video will be to reconstruct the original story and restore it to its folk magic and treasure seeking context-a part of the story that the average Mormon is woefully unaware.
I do not use the term "occult" to imply that Joseph Smith was a Satanist, but rather that he practiced a heterodox form of Christianity that included what might be termed white or Christian magic.
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ALL of your works (videos) are so incredibly well researched and truthfully cannot be denied by the lds community, for everything you present is factual and extremely if not overly documemted by many close to Smith.
It would be good for you to review my complete statement: "Of course, I know that. But I’m not talking about what you believe, but what heterodox Christians believe. For instance, many Christians today believe in astrology without realizing the inherent contradictions. It is not my job to defend orthodoxy. I’m just a historian and a scholar of religion who describes the way things are, not what they ought to be according to some ideology."
Oh well christians of all types have not much concept of the content of their books
@Teddygalbis But Christianity is based on myth and faith and a prophet Just the same
@Teddygalbis Really ? Name one single independent witness !
You are such a sinner wow
@Ralph Wiggam and then B.Young sat back and waited for Joseph Smith to get his ass killed (so that BY could take over), which was obviously inevitable considering Smith's outrageous philandering
I've been researching the occult aspects of Joseph Smith and his family, taking great interest in the Jupiter Talisman found on Smith after his death.
The Mormon scholar and Professor of Religion at Brigham Young University, LaMar C. Berrett reveals that "This piece was in Joseph Smith's pocket when he was martyred at Carthage Jail". Emma herself said it belonged to Joseph Smith.
In 1974 Dr. Reed Durham, who was Director of the LDS Institute of Religion at the University of Utah and President of the Mormon History Association, made a discovery so startling that it caused great consternation among Mormon scholars and officials.
Dr. Durham found that what had previously been identified as the 'Masonic jewel of the Prophet Joseph Smith' was in reality a 'Jupiter talisman.'
This is a medallion which contains material relating to astrology and magic. Dr. Durham, apparently not realizing the devastating implications of his discovery, announced this important find in his presidential address before the Mormon History Association on April 20, 1974:
". . . I should like to initiate all of you into what is perhaps the strangest, the most mysterious, occult-like esoteric, and yet Masonically oriented practice ever adopted by Joseph Smith. . . .
"'All available evidence suggests that Joseph Smith the Prophet possessed a magical Masonic medallion, or talisman, which he worked during his lifetime and which was evidently on his person when he was martyred. His talisman is in the shape of a silver dollar and is probably made of silver or tin."
Probably king Solomon's seal there' many does a picture of the original amulet exist. That might help. Sounds like that's where that's from.
Interesting
Hey have you heard of The Twelve Tribes of Israel in America? It was a source for Smith
Reformed Egyptian ?!? I'm wondering why, if the angel Moroni had these magical powers, he couldn't have reworked the golden plates into English before leading Joseph Smith to them. When God gave the ten commandments to Moses, were they in a different language, perhaps reformed Pig Latin, that Moses had to translate by looking at a stone in a hat?
I find it shocking that grown adults never stop to ask "if they were Hebrews, why would they write in a foreign language?"
The excuse that reformed Egyptian is "more compact" is simply untrue. Ancient Hebrew is remarkably compact. It doesn't even have vowels
@@truth.speaker depends on the time in history, when the were in exile the language of the Babylonians (Aramaic?) became their common tongue, yes they still spoke Hebrew but it contended with the "foreign" language, but yes you're right.
@@truth.speaker Before Champollion cracked the code of the hieroglyphs, the common idea was that each character depicted a whole word, just as in Chinese. However, hieroglyphs are not ideograms, though some contain determinatives to distinguish homophones. Joseph Smith should have used "reformed Chinese", because that would indeed have been a more compact language. It is one of the mistakes he made based on 19th century knowledge, which should raise a red flag in the 21st century however.
Reformed Egyptian was brilliant!! Inventing a language of which no one could critique the translation thereof. Now the complete foupau of attempting to translate REAL Egyptian on the facsimile's which became the book of Abraham was TOTAL foolishness as Champollion was simultaneously deciphering the Rosette stone, and now egyptologists could read Egyptian & thus had the ability to critique Joe's translation powers. Which incidentally were ZERO!!!
@@corybritton1966 I would make an even bigger claim. Mormonism is a complete 19th century artifact. A lot of Joseph Smith's beliefs about the world are the common sense of 19 th century America, but have since been rejected, e.g. the dating of the old testament, the historicity of the global flood or the Tower of Babel narrative, the idea that Freemasonry dates back to Solomon's temple. Each of these points invalidate Joseph's narrative.
I’m only here to teach about JS and early Mormon history. I leave it up to my listeners to decide how to use this information or what it may mean in their lives. I’m more interested in discussing how JS viewed himself, and that was certainly not as a sorcerer. The Book of Mormon condemns magic and sorcery. I want to understand JS, not judge and condemn him. If my discussions raise doubt about JS, it is a byproduct of trying to get the story right. This is serious discussion, not diatribe.
Do you deny it as the word of God?
John Crypto, what does that have to do with anything?
@@jasonbishop5345 I dont understand what you don't understand. I will try and help you comprehend just have to figure out where the break down for you begins
@@jasonbishop5345 my reply is very relevant. So i will try and help you understand. I know i can say things that fly over peoples head so i will dumb it down some if i can. Sorry i confused you.
@@jasonbishop5345 Its has everything to do with it. Jamboree
Thank you for your search for detailed historical truth! We learn more about ourselves through your work!
This is very disturbing. How can we help Mormon's see if they aren't allowed to look at anything else but their books and website? They are taught all other documentation is "anti mormon" and to draw them away from the "truth". I wish there was a way.
You can't! They honestly think the devil has a hold of us... My sister refuses to drink a cup of coffee ☕️ with me even if I read her all of rhe science-based benefits...
It is exhasperating ("Mission Impossible" is probably more accurate) for anyone trying to get a Mormon to see that the Mormon "Church" (Cult) has pulled the "religious" wool over over her/his eyes. The cult programming is far, far stronger, and intense than I ever imagined could be for seemingly healthy, mentally sound people. However, I must give credit where credit is due to those vested in perpetuating the Mormon Corporate Cult, for devising the ingenious, self-perpetuating, cult membership (investment) system. Indoctrination starts with an infant's first breath, it is repetitive, warns of the most dire consequences for straying from the cult, or even questioning teachings, and teachings assure cult members of LOFTY eternal rewards for siring/giving birth to as many new cult members as possible, and regularly paying tithing $$$. Obviously, I've left out many of the subtle, and overt cult control practices/techniques, but this is basically how the corporate, Mormon cult guarantees its cash cow will never go dry. Yes, it defies all logic, but the cult is especially adept at squashing logical reasoning (the BOM could teach 1+1 doesn't equal 2 because Joseph Smith had a vision that told him for only those in the one true "church" (cult) 1+1=3, and any cult member who questions this, isn't praying sincerely enough, and any non-cult member trying to convince a cult member 1+1 really only equals 2, is of the Devil.)
Unfortunately, that’s always been how these scams work. There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance among the victims, though: some of them wake up and get out. Help the ones who need a safe place to deprogram themselves... but don’t confront the ones who are still victims.
I feel the exact same way. Why give a portion of your paycheck to a massive organization? Why not just be a regular Christian
I can't tell you how different these truths are from what I was taught/raised with/indoctrinated growing up in The Church. I can only wonder and regret how my life would have been so much different if I had known the TRUTHS EARLIER, rather than so late in my life. Frankly all I can do is SMH and be VERY ANGRY.
Don't bother being angry ... you, (and I), are not, and we're not ever anything to them but a tithing revenue generating drone. They don't care about their liies. Enjoy the freedom and don't look back!
Great advice. Be pissed for a few months, then get on widdit
Hey- have you read Fawn Brodie’s No Man Knows My History?? I hope you’re doing well out here.
@@tattoofthesun I have not. I’m familiar with it. I really should.
I'm blown away by the parallels between Muhammad and Joseph Smith / Islam and Mormonism. Both religions are founded on revisionist books authored by ultimate prophets, which books are deemed divinely authentic and the respective religions remain steeped in the past and struggle to reform. Having said this however I appreciate that modern Mormonism is overwhelmingly good for society because it centres on peaceful transformation while literal Islam imposes itself as it mandates force of some kind, ranging from coercion to law enforcement and violence.
Sorry but Sayedna Mohammed pbuh changed so much. He is the only human in history that was in military religion and politics equal successful.
What about Zionism: Jews and Jesuits? I see that you conveniently left them out...and they are the problem in the world....the cause of all WARS and violence. It appears that Islam, Mormonism and Catholicism are all wicked branches of ZIONISM....surely you can see that. They all have elements of the occult...King Solomon's temple...Freemasonry. Read what Albert Pike wrote...he was a 33-degree Freemason, and he SAYS that they worship LUCIFER...the fallen angel of the Bible.
Well said!
Smith also lifted a lot from Methodism
His father wanted wealth, his mother wanted God, and poor Joseph was caught in the middle. Consequently he invented a story that would keep them both happy, make them proud, and get him some attention.. .but it got out of control. The only amazing thing about all this is that so many Mormons have invested so much of their lives into deifying this guy.
I'm just a man with some ideas. Do you want to fight, or learn about Mormon history? I have a very simple purpose here: to discuss Mormon history and Joseph Smith as fairly, accurately, and scholarly as possible.
I want to fight. You're a lying sack of horseshit. You are a liar and a fraud, and conman.
Lol learn how to type (the And's and , are misplaced...) I'm concerned you dont know how to correctly write lest the whole capability to read and understand the bible is disheartening
@@djadams7795 truth is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow but it sets one free
Thank you for your research and accuracy! I’m sure your releasing of this material has had some repercussions. Again thanks
Lol this is hilarious!!! The "church history" this man is talking about were from fraudulent documents written by Mark Hofmann. They are refered to as "The Salamander Letters." Hofmann killed 2 people with BOMBS to keep his fraudulent letters from being discovered. Look up "Who the (beep) did I Marry?" It goes into detail how Hofmann purchased shells that carbon dated to the time Joseph Smith lived and then CRUSHED them up with ink he made. He even admits in open court he made it all up. He would then purchase used books and said he found the letters in the book. Here is an article about it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe in Jesus Christ as their redeemer and Savior of the world. Joseph Smith and his family were very religious and loved God. The rock in a hat was made up, the occult, the gold searching, all made up by Hofmann. I'm sure I've left out some of the other lies Hofmann has written, but this whole video should be taken down for spreading fear and lies about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints . You can look up Hofmann's fake documents as "The Salamander Letters" archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=50372909&itype=cmsid
@@ktrainbow9765 I will continue to trust Mr.Vogels’ history of Joseph Smith as historically accurate! I feel he has no ax to grind or ulterior motives except to provide a true history of Joseph Smith and his Church!
@@alanfenick1103 sounds to me like facts don't matter, only opinions from someone who is prejudice against a religion and manipulates the data he has gleaned to fit his narrative. He even admits "I don't use the Salamander letters" yet his first few minutes of his lecture is about JS putting a rock into a hat which is from the Salamander letter. Blind leading the blind. Would go into Jesus Christ's life. How many people grew up with him as "Joseph the carpenter's son" and then he travels all over the land telling people he is the Son of God and King of the Jews? How many accounts are there in Jesus's home town that said "he is Joseph's son. He isn't MY king. He isn't the Son of God, he is the Son of Joseph the carpenter. He makes furniture with his father in that old barn at the edge of town. I think he lost his mind when he hit 30. Same thing happened to his mother's uncle. It's sad really." But you don't hear about the hundreds of accounts of Jesus's home town, you only hear the 12 apostles. So why do you feel this guy is soooo much more credible than any other person who has information on Joseph Smith?
@@ktrainbow9765 Seems that you are a “true believer” an a “defender of the faith” Nothing Mr. Vogel does or said s will make a dent in your beliefs. Is you faith so great that it is offended by another persons views! If your religion is strong and righteous nothing will change it! Orthodoxy is found in very few religions including yours or mine! I am comfortable about my religious group! We are called apostates, blasphemers and are executed for our beliefs even today! Yet I believe! Take comfort in your beliefs!
Oh I do take comfort. And yet here I am wondering why it is so important for someone to spread false information about The Church of Jesus Christ and a prophet of God. He he also put up videos of Buddhists? Or Taoists? Or Wiccans? Or is it the "author's" sole mission to discredit, slander, and convince others of fraudulent information of ONE religion? Wonder why that is? You know who the author of lies is? Lucifer. And yet here he is spouting lies and I will not deny Christ like Peter. I will call out lies where I see it. Now, if this liar should tell the truth, I have no problems. But let's stick with the truth. Not satan's lies
Joseph Smith was such an amazing relegon story teller and was so believable... In Hearing Dan Vogel read this account, it is no wonder to me looking back why I believed it... He was quite a character... I believe he invented religion using the Bible as his blue print and he did believe in prayer... did have answers to them at times, other times he made shit up or lied... I call him him the Tesla of religion...
Amazes me what people will believe. My step son is a Mormon, this explains a lot haha. My nephew is waiting for Xenu to come back. I'm just trusting God and using the old right from wrong meter. Seems to work pretty good for me.
Xenu does not return to Earth in Scientology.
Indeed @johnstrong3029 ! Xenu, according to the Scientology UFO cult, is imprisoned somewhere in the Pyrenees, in a facility powered by an eternal battery. Pulp sci-fi...
Oh God. Sorry to hear about this. I don’t get why these people give their money to that organization. Just believe in God and Jesus and leave Smith OUT OF IT
Is this where we get the term "gold digger?"Anyone who reads the Bible should know that ANY form of divination(like the "seer stone in the hat") is an abomination to God, the Father Almighty. God was never a man...He was always GOD.
Man is another name of God's Development.
God became man, as the Bible states, his name is Jesus Christ. Our savior.
@@janetblanck5135 Not what I was talking about.
@@truepremise2053 , The God of the Bible doesnt " develop". He doesnt " progress" either. He has ALWAYS BEEN. If your god does develop and/or progress- that is the difference between Christianity and mormonism.
@@elizabethking5523 It's also the difference between truth & falsehood. :) I believe in universals. You should too.
The information about Joseph Smith and the voice of Dan Vogel are the perfect match to fall asleep at night listening 👂 😴😃🙃
Gold digging sounds like a bit of excitement before television. The stories are reminiscent of Tolkein or fairy tales.
I know. This all seems to wholesome and cute. It seems like Joe was having some fun in the beginning, too bad it got so out of hand
I’m sorry, but I’m not going to participate in the politics of the Christian movement. I’m not going to decide who is a real Christian and who is not, or who can legitimately claim the name Christian. That’s your game, not mine.
Not sure why so many play that game, I think we should of learned by now that judgment is not our job..... sigh... Great videos - very enjoyable...
Another great vid!
Thank you Mr. Vogel.
He didn't doscover any 'plates' he made it all up.
You are so kind to say, thanks.
Josephs fantastic tales were mesmerizing. He could draw followers like a moths to a campfire. Over time his campfire tales morphed into a religion of evidence free spiritualism. Then came Masonic marked underwear, heavenly garb, necro baptism and gods with wives and families forever.
I'm not, nor ever have been Mormon, but in an effort to understand why Mormons are so spellbound, and averse to truth, I've watched scores of YT videos from ex-Mo cultists, as well as loyal, practicing Mormon cultists. Your description above is the most succinct, straightforward, accurate summary I've read thus far of perhaps the greatest of all "religious" con jobs.
There never were gold plates, only golden mushrooms.
Great video as always, Dan. I have only one complaint. When you quote various peoples' accounts of these events, it would be convenient if you reiterated the date of the event they are referring to. After all, the dates aren't the same in each account. I'm just having a hard time placing things in chronological order as I listen.
I relieved Dan of his 666 satanic like-count! Keep up the good work, Dan! As a proud apostate, I hail you. I'm not worthy.
Yes. My next video will cover JS's claimed removal of the plates in 1827.
Very well done. Thank you. I find LDS history fascinating.
I just discovered these videos and I can't wait to view them all. THANK YOU, Dan, for producing some of the best (if not THE best) unbiased historical research on Joseph Smith and early Mormonism. I think consider your book "JOSPEH SMITH: THE MAKING OF A PROPHET" is THE best biography of Joseph Smith yet written--though it only covers his life from birth until his move to Kirtland, Ohio.
Great job, Dan Vogel. It's always interesting reading comments on videos like this. How otherwise intelligent (?), rational people, can throw all reason aside, and accept magic, and superstition, just so they can keep believing their religion is true, is just amazing. Evolution? No. Magic. Big bang? No. Magic. God of the gaps fills all the holes.
He was a creative conman , that's the extent of it.
Indeed
You can’t say specific person is “demonically energized & driven” rather than some psychological state. You are merely guessing. I prefer to explain things naturally wherever possible. Being a former Mormon I’m perfectly aware of how psychological states can be misinterpreted as supernatural.
Joseph is a fascinating character of history. I am an atheist and don't believe in anything supernatural, so I naturally consider him to be a villain. The vast majority, if not all, founders of religions have been narcissists and/or sociopaths. I think you would have to be to present yourself as above humanity, tell lies without a twinge of conscience, and be so motivated by achieving power over others. (It just wouldn't be religion without an element of going mad with power.) In Joseph's case, the psychology of someone who would invent such wild tales as a means of fleecing people (even his own family) and wielding absolute power over them, is definitely 'out there' and even a little scary. If I had a time machine I would be fascinated to hear Joseph speak, but I hardly think he is someone to look to for our morals and authentic history.
If these people are right he would have to be the biggest con man of all time at least in American history..
@@Dreammaster695 That's exactly right, that's why it is so fascinating. I like in UT... When you look out at UT Valley, with a church on every block as far as the eye can see, and a seminary next to every school, teaching every new batch of young people these strange stories of 19th Century superstition are the most important thing in the world... It's hard not to become obsessed with the history! It's a hell of a crazy thing. Probably the biggest story in religion since Muhammed. (Smith said he would be a second Muhammed, and was called that by newspaper editors of the time.)
Bill Scannell is there any proof Mohammed existed? It’s a very common name.. yeah that’s what people fail to mention or realise there wasn’t 16 million members when smith died there was only a few thousand mostly all where smith stayed.. now it’s worldwide videos like these won’t do anything the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ and the missionaries bring people to the church and maybe the first vision as well but after that people are happy enough to believe and accept it, I don’t see why there is so much hate I suppose it’s mostly bitterness and jealousy.. btw I looked this Dan Vogel guy up other than trying to expose Joesph smith this guy isn’t known for anything none of his other books have sold much at all I suppose if there wasn’t a Joesph smith this guy and many others would be poor and not living off a dead mans name.. just my thoughts
Geez, people were incredibly gullible back then… 🙄🤦♀️
Joseph Smith was the L Ron Hubbard of his century - and of the two, he was the more successful at his fraud. Let’s hope the 21st century doesn’t cough up another charlatan on that scale.
We're still incredibly gullible.
As a skeptic, I regard such things as either delusion or fraud. Setting aside the charlatans, those “Christians” who practice these things believe their gifts are from God and distinguish their practice from those that are condemned. The Smith’s owned two parchments filled with magic characters and “St. Peter bind them” and “Holiness to the Lord”. They were well aware of being unorthodox.
They were also attending a lot of local meetings and listening to speakers who were either stationed in Palmyra for a bit or who were passing through
Joseph lied
Susanne Thompson, yes Joseph lied.
How long would it take for the scale to drop from the eyes of mormon loyalties and see what a fraud mormonism is.Thank goodness I left this organization at last.
linda kalu I am so glad to be a Latter-day Saint! I know Joseph Smith saw God and Christ, and others from the Scriptures. He was the Prophet of the Restoration.
@@herbofallon965 The Bible in Deteuronomy 18:10 forbids the occult and divination and etc. The foundation of Mormonism is the occult. Further more Galatians 1:8 says that even if a angel of light appears and speaks a new gospel, we are to reject it. 2 Corinthians 11:14 speaks that Satan masquerades himself as a angel of light. Joseph Smith describes the angel he saw as light and a new gospel. There is no new Gospel of restoration. Christ already completed the work. Only the final judgment is to come for those who preached lies. Seek the truth through the pure word of God and not follow mans word especially when they fail the Bible litmus test.
Herb O'Fallon to many things proof that joseph was a fraud. The book of abraham fraud, the gold plates fraud,the kinder hook plates fraud, the bank fraud. So many frauds.
Herb O'Fallon
You don’t know. You think and you believe but you don’t know.
Herb O'Fallon
Re-read linda kalu’s words please. You sound like a robot.
Would anybody knows about the drawing in 18:11. What is it, and where it could be found?
If you are calling JS a sorcerer because you think he “exercised supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery,” I think that doesn’t accurately describe JS at all. My purpose in bringing up the magic parchments was to show the blend of magic and Christianity; hence, my use of white or Christian magic. I think necromancer is more accurate, although he really didn’t contact the dead, but only pretended to.
Yeah, he was a scammer, not a ‘sorcerer’.
In studying the minds of controversial leaders that have shaped history I can see some commonalities. Leaders are products of their environment and set out to fix a problem with a strong sense of destiny and mission. When they dabble in the occult they become more powerful and dangerous. The catalyst for delusion is secrecy. Delusion operates on 2 levels (1) self delusion and (2) mass delusion. Mass delusion goes often beyond the level of self delusion. Some commonalities in controversial leaders can be:
• Occult mindset (Hidden, Secrecy, Lies, Manipulation, Duplicity)
• Compartmentalized thinking
• Ambition: Man is God in the making
• Myth making: The deeper the antiquity the greater the authority
• Megalomanic and Egomanic character traits
• A strong sense of providential call & mission
• Extreme attitudes: “The end justifies the means”
Walter, thanks much. Very insightful and true. Mormonism is one other 1800s cult of counterfeit and masquerade.
Stephen Bennett At least one problem with your counterfeit and masquerade charge. And that is where is your 100% HIT RATE explaining how a bunch up in the hills of NY and PA back in the day of the 1820 just decided to go out and pretend to be abolitionists so that if in the event in the future Jimmy Carter should threaten to take away the Mormon churches tax exemption status the Mormons would already know to counter by saying > Joseph Smith wanted to become president abolish slavery thereby avoiding a war between the states which he in 1832 predicted and predicted would happen in South Carolina. It was more about rights than it was priesthood. We believe that the blacks should have just as many rights as the whites. Where the hell you been?
Richard Holmes sMYTH did not want to abolish slavery he thought every family should own atleast one slave, and his best friend came up with the story from god that if anyone of the delightsome had ever married one they would be struck down on the spot this is what your first two profits thought and taught
@@richardmcginnis5344 Not only that, but their view of women and their blatant POLYGAMY...was also disgusting. They bordered on pedophilia, considering the fact that many of their wives were 14 to 16 y/o. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were two disgusting men!
A sampling of the 3913 changes made to the most correct book on the earth inspired book on the earth...
This changes section courtesy of the Jerald and Sandra Tanner. For more, order their book, "Mormonism, Shadow or reality?" from: bookstore.
Original 1830 Edition, B of M- Joseph Smith, Jr. The author and proprietor of this work
Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978- Joseph Smith, Jr. the translator of this work
1830 Edition : ''now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men... Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978- ''now if there are faults, they are the mistakes of men...
1830 Edition : 1 Ne 13:40 '' the lamb of God is the Eternal Father Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' the lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father
1830 Edition : 1Nephi 11:21''the Eternal Father Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' son of the Eternal Father
1830 Edition : 1 Nephi 11:32 ''the Everlasting God Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' son of the Everlasting God
1830 Edition : 1 Nephi 20:1 '' words added Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 ''or out of the waters of Baptism
1830 Edition : 2 Nephi 12:9 '' the mean man boweth down Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 ''the mean man boweth not down
1830 Edition : Alma 29:4 '' Yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 ''words deleted
1830 Edition : Alma 37:21,24 ''directors
Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' Interpreters
1830 Edition : Alma 30:16 '' it is the effects of a phrensied mind
Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' it is the effect of a frenzied mind
1830 Edition : Alma 23:1''nor neither of their brethren Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' nor either of their brethren
1830 Edition : Mosiah 21:28; Ether 4:1 '' king Benjamin Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' Mosiah (Benjamin was dead at this time)
1830 Edition : 1 Nephi 12:18 '' Jesus Christ Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 '' Messiah (Jesus had not yet been revealed to the Nephites)
1830 Edition : ''1 Nephi 20:1 '' come forth out of the waters of Judah Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 ''or out of the waters of baptism (these words added after "Judah"
1830 Edition :2 Nephi 16:2 ''seraphims Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978 ''seraphim (verse copied from older copy of KJV which made a gramatical error)
These videos are so incredibly well researched. What I wouldn’t give for a version that gives a citation on screen (title, author, page number) so that I could do a transcription of this video complete with in-text sources. I’d love to chat with the sweet Mormon missionaries who visit my door, and let them know that none of what they’re doing is necessary for “salvation”.... but I’m not confident at all that when the inevitable objections come, that I could prove each of my assertions adequately.
But anyway, your videos are amazing, and your ability as a researcher is unparalleled. Incredible work!
Fantastic video. I really appreciate your great work. I think it is funny that Lucy claims the Smiths spent the night of Moroni's first appearance discussing the thousands of opinions on religion but doesn't mention Joseph's First Vision three and a half years earlier in which God and Jesus told him the creeds of all religions were an abomination. Did she not know the yarn?
As you probably know, JS's First Vision was inserted into Lucy's history from JS's history published in the Times and Seasons. I think JS may have experienced a born-again-like conversion to Jesus in his youth, but it wasn't a vision of Jesus or the Father and Jesus. See my videos on the First Vision.
Great work! very informative video!glad I found ur channel u explain subjects in a very thorough and interesting way !thanx sir!
🌹✝🔯🌜🌟🌞♒
Thank You for your work Dan. Your amazing ! you have taught me a ton. And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!
Jesus only meets with Moses and Elias in the Bible. Joseph Smith had to always try and "best" the Bible with his stories in the Book of Mormon. Everything was more, bigger, better. So he has himself meeting over 100 dead prophets, dead peoples, angels, God and Jesus. Really?!! NO ONE can see the face of God, but JS just had to best everyone and trump the Bible itself (which states that NO ONE can look upon the face of God), so he includes God, just not until a couple of practice, "first visions", which also leads to the thoughts that he is also lying about his 1st vision because of the more than 8 accounts, none of which were the same.
Giving himself, "authority" over everyone in his area, especially those local preachers he was fighting with and gave himself and others Melchizedek priesthood and Aaronic priesthood. What a crock of lies! An angel with a fiery sword would kill him if he didn't marry lots of other girls and women, some married already. Bull!
So true. How can this not speak volume with these folks. Con man. Deuteronomy chaper 17 18 and 19. U can see he's used Divination. Look that word up. Is that not the peep stone. Lol
And we KNOW that any form of "divination" is forbidden in both the Old and New Testaments. The more you DIG into Joseph Smith, the more of the occult world you will uncover(like the Jupiter talisman that he wore) and the full moon/equinox stuff. Maybe he WAS visited by a "spirit guide," but the Bible says to "test the spirits" because they are NOT all of God. And...who ever heard of having so many "priesthoods" and taking wives(away from their husbands)? It is all BAD.
How did an angel appear in their little home without waking everyone else up? At least his siblings who were in the same room, right? Did his voice not make enough noise to wake any others up? His brightness didn't bother others in the room? Their home was small. How do these details add up?
+Isaac Mathews Did you think a vision was not personal? When Christ appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus, those with him heard nothing...wise up.
+John Lee "wise up"? Is that you telling me I am (not wise), or in other words, I'm stupid? I can have a civil conversation about this, but not if you're going to be condescending and make personal attacks.
+Isaac Mathews A little prickly there, Isaac. I just answered your question...no condescension, no attacks...but while I'm accused anyway...you're an idiot.
+John Lee --- I will not waste my time with immaturity attacks. Hope you're not claiming to be any kind of 'good' Christian. You're not providing much of an example if you are. Name calling ended in 4th grade for me. Later.
+Isaac Mathews ...except for name calling you a fourth grader...nice moral high ground, idiot...and it's "immature"..
This is excellent. I’d absolutely love to have you on my podcast someday
Quite a few years ago, a family member was doing some repair work at a Baptist worship building when, as he was going about his work, he noticed some pamphlets on a wooden shelf to the side of the door that led into their chapel. He picked one up and noticed it was anti LDS “literature”. He brought it home to his wife who gave it to me. I was having a crisis of belief in my faith, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, so I gladly took the pamphlets home to study them. I owe a debt of gratitude to whoever wrote them because I quickly discovered that they were junk, written by someone who would either out and out lie or take statements that were out of context or use other strategies to prove his point. They were laughable to anyone who had studied even casually LDS history. I had a couple questions that I wanted to look up, so I did that and found the same deceit in them. My crisis of faith resolved after realizing the depths that Satan will go through to use ex members of the church to defame the modern day church of Jesus Christ and its beliefs. It makes me sad to realize that so many men and women are wasting their lives believing this garbage and/or writing it, such as Mr. Vogel does. I also learned that Christ stands ready to answer our questions if we humbly ask. And I give my personal testimony that long after these deceitful voices are silent, the LDS church will, with Christ as its’ head, still continue into the eternities.
Ya what bugs me the most is when people leave the Mormon church because the Book of Mormon has something weird or other weird things like polygamy or the divining stone. It’s shocking how people leave the Mormon church and be like I’m a born again Christian. It’s like wait a second there tex. Leaving Mormonism doesn’t resolve any other issues if you then remain a Christian. Talk about cognitive dissonance haha. It’s like most of the biggest things that make people think the lds church is a cult or not Christian or is false those same things exist in the Bible.
Like the Bible says divining is bad but stones on a breast plate is totally fine. It makes me wonder if some of those things is because god wanted his people to be distinct and or maybe because divining by rolling knuckle bones or other methods is unreliable or hard to interpret. The Bible says witches are bad but never really explains what defines a witch. Which is convenient cause then anyone could be labeled a witch which people were in the dark ages.
Just take Jesus and leave Smith OUT of it
Read No Man Knows My History. I live in Rochester NY and my family has been here for generations. We have a lot of local history to support her
For a man who claimed he saw god; he certainly had little faith, less obedience, even less courage and no regard for truth
Joseph's Myth
Who is watching this in 2024?
I think "The Hopeful Spot" would be great name for a bar esp in SLC.
You seem to have done extensive research on this video. I salute you
30:29 that Franklin quote could be seen as magickal using working tools of a Mason...
Yes, I’m using occult in a broad sense; hence my explanation added at the beginning of the video. There are some Evangelicals who want to approach Mormonism like it’s a secret satanic cult. These people are to be avoided because they are merely playing to their Evangelical audience who don’t know any better.
They actually are a Satanic cult at the top. Anyone who know them knows that. They don’t even hide it very well. Kinda carve it in stone and lay it in stained glass, and much more. Not “playing to any evangelical audience”. It’s just a fact.
@@misskim2058 can you give some sources of information to research on this claim? I have heard that Freemasonry is luciferian at the top...
Joseph Smith- The greatest con man to ever live.
Pennywise 1985 I think is Muhammad
@@albusai Islam and Mormonism are very similar.
@@valeriegriner5644 I totally agree Mohammed is......he killed and destroyed and stole
greatest con man ever seems a bit too flattering at first blush, but when you consider how long his church has been going, you may have a very strong point. it is surprising how resilient mormonism is.
All good choices here. Another possibility is Saul, who changed his name, convinced people he tried to have eliminated that he was the only one they should listen to and then, not having even seen or heard their God's teachings (except through self declared "inspiration") began dismantling most of their traditions and rebuilt their theology. I mean how many religious people would follow that same pattern today with their own church?
Of course, I know that. But I’m not talking about what you believe, but what heterodox Christians believe. For instance, many Christians today believe in astrology without realizing the inherent contradictions. It is not my job to defend orthodoxy. I’m just a historian and a scholar of religion who describes the way things are, not what they ought to be according to some ideology.
" Thou shalt not allow a witch to live.." Warning from the Holy Bible
Divination, sorcery and witchcraft are forbidden in both the Old and New Testaments....I'll bet that Mormons don't know this.
@@valeriegriner5644 Yeah, they know this (ex mormie here). But who follows every OT directive? Probably none of you. I have no love for mormonist theology nor for any selective theology (all of christianity) either. We can show/dismiss almost anything from the bible texts. And Eula - the manner of death? Are you recommending we follow OT edicts and stone them to death. How 'bout rebellious children, those who wear mixed fabrics, etc... I do not believe in witches, warlocks, conjurers, magic spells and so have no desire to kill anyone related to it.
Terrific, Dan. Got as far as Bainbridge, but have to pack for the MHA in Layton.
Michael Marquardt: thanks so much for posting a notice of this on Facebook, one of the few times I've found Facebook of any use.
Dan, will this be available as a DVD?
There is nothing behind dowsing or the Ouija board except delusion. Both work by unconscious muscle movement. Most dowsers believe natural magnetic-like forces or a personal gift make it work. They certainly don’t think Satan is helping them. Ouija operators think they are in contact with the dead, not Satan. They should discontinue such practices not because it’s unorthodox but because it’s delusional.
It's MORE THAN delusional..its of the occult. Satan IS real. I used to play with the Ouija board and I did NOT accidently move my arm or hand to make it move!! It moved itself by the hand of a demon to give me answers to make me believe in it.!!
@@jimcastiglione7657 This is known as the ideomotor effect. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_phenomenon
Well done Dan.
His mother's name was LUCY? That's interesting....Lucifer.
Good stuff, loving it! Is there a part 2 coming?
The Mormon church is pagan , Man do not become angels after we die
Interesting....but how do you know?
@@truepremise2053 Angels can't die , But man can and it would be written in the bible that man becomes angels after his death it's not written in the bible, But the book of ( Garbage) Mormon teach that crap
@@jameswines6752 I think when we die God raises us immediately & gives us the upbringing we always deserved & then we live like God & these titles of nobility are meaningless.
Also, anyone can die, including the Devil. Why? Because fuck your mystic hypocrisy.
@@jameswines6752 Also, The BOM doesn't teach about achieving godhood or anything about the nature of angels except that they have power & that this power can be given & passed on to those who are willing to adhere to THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Get a clue & give me a break.
@@truepremise2053 you idiot didn't your book of( Garbage ) Mormon say that Moroni died and became a angel , He is the dude blowing the trumpet on top of your pagan churches
Why can't members of the church be shown the exact spot where the records were obtained? I understand not being able to see the plates but why not show the cement box in the ground where they were found?
you can't make yp your own gospel like smith did. In the book of paul we are warned against exactly this
Some simple research will show that Christianity is just as made up as Mormonism. There are no true religions.
religions are not what christ was trying to put forth and every single person who started a religion did not do it with god in mind. but money.
You're probably not that far off. Exploiting people's natural spiritual inclinations is easy money.
MrRickmcginnis just what Paul did. He never met Jesus and was not even a close friend of the apostoles. He has a mystical experience or an hallucination, as you may prefer, and from that made up a religion.
Alicia Montero I share that opinion, Paul is the inventor of modern Christianity, other forms were ruthlessly stomped out over hundreds of years, there's no real proof of Jesus ever even living, but loads of evidence that his life is at least mostly mythology from 1-200 after he supposedly lived.
Scholarship can’t determine who is a true or false prophet, or who is in contact with God or Satan. That is theological speculation. As I said, my goal is to provide a fair, accurate, and scholarly description of early Mormon history; you can decide what that means.
Why is the evil spirit story any more unbelievable than the angel and the gold plates? It was probably a demon
Probably a what? In the real world, I mean...
If I recall correctly - and correct me if I'm wrong please - William, Joseph's little brother said when in his 80s that the First Vision never happened. Meanwhile, his account of his older brother receiving the plates is drastically and disturbingly different than what the LDS version today is. Am I remembering incorrectly? Somebody either validate this for me or correct me. Thanks.
+Uncle Ñoño “Gwamps” Kingston all of your questions can be answered in Without Disclosing My True Identity--The Authorized and Official Biography of the Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith, Jr., www.josephsmithbiography.com.
+Rod Vessels Thank you, Rod, but another question comes up about your recommendation, How unbiased/impartial is this "Authorized and Official" biography? Has the original history been slanted in favor of Mormonism or is it authenticated as the information by the Brother who wrote a book I read called something like "Rough Stone Rolling"? Forgive me for not remembering the name of the book. I'll look it up if you wish; It was an excellent book that represented the facts as I found them in the Church archives which non-anti-Mormon friends of mine have accessed on my behalf. I can do all the reading in the world, but too often I find myself reading authorized and official works of the Church that are just outright inconsistent with the actual records. The book I referenced, however, is an example of honesty that I am looking for and appreciate because he admits there are legitimate questions that the Church is "obligated" to answer or investigate truthfully by virtue of Church Doctrine. Meanwhile, it's not attacking the Church, which I am accused of doing by providing the Church with honest assessments and genuine questions.
Have you read this "Authorized and Official" biography yourself yet? I ask this because I am trying to avoid decades of continuous duplication of my studies of the Church. Granted, if the Church can answer all my questions favorably for the Church, it would please me tremendously; however, when I am honest with the Church about my findings, they accuse me of persecuting the Church rather than providing me with truthful answers INCLUDING "I really don't know, but I will do my homework and get back to you." It's important to me to be reasonable, impartial, responsible, and honest. Your HONEST reply will be very much appreciated.
Do me a favor to keep trolls out of this conversation as has been the case with every dialogue I have in public forums with genuine Mormons attempting to share with me their perspectives. Can you connect with me on Hangouts? This would allow us to communicate without interference by devout anti-Mormons and trolls. Feel welcome to invite other authorities in the Church to join our dialogues, but I want you to understand one thing It's very important that you realize how honest I am about this, but when the questions or presentation of facts place Mormons in a difficult disposition, I am accused of being anti-Mormon and of persecuting the Church. I have no desire to destroy the Church. The Church is working hard enough to implode on itself, so I have no need to work on such even if I did desire such. If you are honest, you will respect the fact that I am not anti-Mormon. Mormons are anti-me, however. Mormons are even afraid of me when there is no real reason to be if the Church is really true.
+Uncle Ñoño “Gwamps” Kingston Mormonism is not true, but Joseph Smith was a true messenger who didn't reveal his true identity. Joseph was a SOURCE for this book.
Rod Vessels I do not believe that to be so based on what evidence we have to this effect. Joseph, based on my studies, was a young man with such a vivid and arrogant imagination that evolved over the years. It is proven that he was an adulterer and a liar. He is by no means the Messenger he claims to have been. Jesus said, "Ye shall know them by their fruits..." The fruits of Joseph Smith Jr. are those of a blatantly false prophet, contrary to what I believed when I was a devout and highly dedicated Mormon missionary.
+Uncle Ñoño “Gwamps” Kingston Ok, Uncle; best to you. If you ever want to know more you can go to www.josephsmithbiography.com. Based on your first question, I mistook you for a truthseeker. Best.
I know one thing Jesus is the Christ
And that is good enough
Bin Ren, thank you for your ever present comments of truth and clarity that witness of Christ, the true one of the Bible.
Before Joseph Smith was much older than 10 years of age, his father and some family members were involved with a recent religious movement who had a manuscript to be published. This American Church group failed around 1815-1820 and the manuscript was obtained by local two men (Martin Harris and Sidney Rigdon ???) who were later appointed as senior members of the Joseph Smith' Mormons'. It seems that these men selected Joseph to be the front man to reintroduce a new form of the earlier cult religious movement. They had to fabricate the origins of the manuscripts and so eventually the Smith Family published the Book of Mormon.
They are another branch of ZIONISM...which is the evil parasite of this planet. The 1800's saw many false "religions" spring up in Zionist "America."
Has anyone researched the Freemasonic organizations practices above the 33rd degree level, The luciferian origins?
Dum Dum dum Dum
Dum, Dum, Dum.
What exact places was Joseph Smith doing his treasure seeking in NY and northeast PA.?
Dan Vogel Golden plates in stone boxes were not really known of in Joseph Smith's day. Went back to church 06/15/97 after many a year of inactivity. Started to notice a certain feeling about three weeks later. Asked the sunday school teacher WHAT IS IT. He said it's the same feeling that we all felt up in heaven before we came to this earth!!...to the here and now which is the 2nd estate. Some do know of this certain feeling that only Mormons talk of. Andy Poland (formerly in the Mormon church) tried to imply it's something it's not. One is going to have a difficult time convincing me to believe that it's something to do with Satanism or the devil. Care to show me how it's not of the divine.
I'm not here to tell you it's not of God. I'm only interesting in historical accuracy. Writing on metal plates in Bible times was know in JS day. It was also known that some Indian mounds contained stone boxes. These are subjects for another video.
the bible says satan will appear as an angel of light.besides the guy was a convicted conman and if he found anything gold he would have sold it
Richard Mcginnis Satan? That and everything else you said is short sighted. Because the anti-Mormon Christians themselves have acknowledged that there is that certain feeling one as a member of the Mormon faith feels by attendance to church. In which the anti's have tried to imply it's the Dark Angel and not the holy spirit. Which is not the case of course but at least nobody can say it's of man.
your cult leaders grasp at everything they try to sell you people they come up with things like maybe and might have there is never any sort of hard evidence for anything at all the golden plates for instance were never seen because if you saw them your head would explode? and when all was said and done an angel came and took them back to heaven with him. why would the angel do that? and why wouldn't he take all the other stuff back with him? you know like the dead sea scrolls or the books in the bible why just the golden plates? i know why and so does every other ex-mormon or non mormon because they never existed. the bible says there is nothing hidden that will not be uncovered and that is true as you can clearly see the lies of your cult are being uncovered day by day. there is a mass exodus from mormonism because of the internet more and more members of your cult are going outside approved reading to find the real history of it and leaving because it is a lie
Richard Mcginnis If were the case.
What is interesting is that the LDS movement eventually obtained real gold via these stories. Joseph I suppose enjoyed a little of it before his assassination
Joseph Smith was not assassinated.
Yea, its "reconstruction" alright too bad it is far from the truth.
No no it's closer to truth than believing a collection of folk magic stories
Prove it or STFU.
JS condemned all churches to get people to join him & even canonized it. LDS do the same today, even door to door.
JS in his practice of magical arts & sorcery absolutely was not following Christ, irregardless of any consideration of heterodox.
Is your faith in the wisdom of men & not in the power of God?
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Cor. 2:15).
what makes anyone think that dead people turn into angels? Nephi? Moroni? LOL
when mind controlled..
Such thinking that people get their "wings" after death is based upon superstition or a Hollywood mentality.
The Bible -->>>>
When an angel appeared to John the Revelatorr, he siad
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: ....
Do you cdowis, believe that at one point he Elohim was a small boy, then he grew up, to be a man, and then became the Mormon god ?
No, he doesn't, and neither do I nor do any other LDS. LDS doctrine states that God has always been God.
Occult generally means dark or hidden, so what is white or Christian magic ? Are we talking about being psychic and acknowledging it is real regardless of the source ?
My point is that occult magic books such as Barrett's Magus were written by believing Christians and contained a blend of magic and biblical themes. This should be distinguished from Satanism.
Fair enough. I recon the spirit world exists and there are real phenomena even if they are mythical rather than true in a material or factual sense.
+Dan Vogel .. Francis Barrett's -" Magus"? where is the link for us to find that "Magus" was written by "believing Christians"? If you search online, you will find that Magus was written by the Occultist Francis Barrett! You didn't fully explain this.
Barrett didn't think what he was doing was inconsistent with God, the Bible, or his belief in Jesus. What others think is irrelevant. I'm only interested in what Joseph Smith and his contemporaries thought they were doing, and they didn't think they were practicing Satanism.
But HE said so, so it Must be true! LOL fucking cult members
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's. clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Where did the Occult get the idea for deer stones?
It's seer stones because it's a form of divanation when gazing at shiny objects like crystal crystal balls water etc it can put on in a self hypnosis or self trance.
I'm not going to answer anything that this guy henochparks comments on anymore because it is like discussing something with a 3 yr. old. If everyone did the same thing he would go away.
I have dealt with Mr. Parks for a couple of years now. You are right on the mark. I usually don't pay attention to him but occasionally I correct him, not for his benefit as he is a fit throwing screaming child, but for others who may read the post. He goes from site to site, never watching the videos, but screaming LIES LIES. Of course he never says what the lie is as he never watched the video.
August Zabriskie
I have noticed that is common practice for people like him. Gross over generalizations followed by condemnation of you as a person but not ever really discussing any of the issues being debated. The other avoidance tactic that people like him use is you are a __________hater.
Captain football
And by you do you mean you too?
Captain football
Yes the JW's are the same only the opposite side of the coin. Mormons very ritualized (right brained orientated) and Jw's have almost no rituals (left brain orientated) Both are financed by the same by international bankers. And even though on the surface they seem to be completely different they have exactly the same basic message, "God the psychotic avenger will destroy all of sinful man and everybody will die except they the chosen ones. Classic cult mind numbing crap. And it doesn't matter what Christian cult it is they all do it.
And when the Lord of All God's looked at the gathering rabble and asked them what about Love and Forgiveness? Then crowd in their delusional anger and self hatred yelled back to the Eternal Father What good is that? Then in one voice they all cried out in their madness for the All Mighty God to give them the just punishment of complete destruction. But God only shook his head sadly letting one tear fall because of the insanity of his children.
gardeeoh hahahahaha you are a liar and a coward
To me Christianity is much bigger than what the orthodox define. Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are only a small sliver of what interests me. I’m not a minister trying to condemn a group to get them to join mine. I’m a scholar trying to seriously understand my subject and convey that information to anyone who will listen. I have clearly said JS was heterodox in his practice of Christianity, but as a scholar you won't find me talking about God and demons. I'll leave that to the ministers.
JS mixed Christianity with the occult. Occult isn’t necessarily Satanic, but uses unorthodox methods to divine hidden or invisible things. Belief in enchanted treasures and the use of magic existed among people who considered themselves Christians. Stowell was a deacon in the Presbyterian Church, and JS attended Methodist revivals. Of course, the orthodox condemned such practices.
Why not the Best? When I was just a boy, I was quite serious minded and as I would look up into the night sky, I would wonder, “What is God like?” and “Who am I to him?” Well, I quickly discovered that there was no agreement on questions about God among any of the religions. Thus began a lifelong quest to find the answers. I have spent over thirty years talking to people of other faiths and visiting their services. It has been a wonderful experience and I think it has helped me to get a glimpse of why God allows so many religions. First of all, I have discovered that God answers the prayers of all people who call on Him. I have heard compelling testimonies of God’s mercy and miracles in all faiths, and even those without a church. It seems irrefutable that He does not require you to pronounce His Name correctly. Father, Jesus, God, Allah, Jehovah, Lord, etc. all seem to be understood by Him. He seems to know the intent of our prayers and our heart. We can communicate with Him even with incorrect beliefs. He loves all men (and women) and we are truly all brothers and sisters. Unfortunately when God answers the prayers of people in the different faiths, they misunderstand that answer as being “proof” of the correctness of their particular faith. They think God has put His stamp of approval on their religion and that they are authorized to persecute and sometimes kill people of other religions in defense of their “God”.None the less, There is an overwhelming amount of good that all religions accomplish. Looking at the big picture closer I discovered that all religions are trying to get their membership to do three things, 1. They want you to have a personal love and relationship with God. 2. They want you to actually live-----what boils down to be the “Ten Commandments” (Christians, Muslims ,Buddhists, Jews Hindus phrase it differently but it all comes down to the Ten Commandments) 3. They want you to treat our body as if it is the temple of God. This is what the leaders of all the different faiths would like their members to do. I discovered that when people actually do these three things, they all have the same results---Heaven on Earth. Or to be more realistic, they have greater happiness than through any other path. The good days are better and the tragedies are easier to survive. There are people in every faith that achieve these three things, and get “Heaven on Earth” So does that mean it doesn’t matter what religion you have? No, there is a difference. I’m a practical guy, and the practical measurable difference in the different religions is the percentage of members in a religion that achieve those three things. Some faiths may only have less than 10% of their members that do those three things. Other religions may have 20%, and others 30% . Results matter! In my lifetime of personal observations, I have not found any faith that comes close to success the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) has in getting it’s members to live those three things. It is the Best. I have six children who are happily married in the temple. I have twenty grandchildren who go to church with both parents every Sunday. I love my kids and grand kids more than life itself. I would not lead them anywhere, but where they will receive the greatest joy. Remember--- Results matter.----- Good enough is not good enough.------ Scott Marshall I have researched all the problems they talk about, and I'm still here.
While I agree with much of what you say, I still find Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to be immoral, greedy, lustful con men who took advantage of gullible people(especially women), and, therefore, they should not be honored as "prophets" of the GOD I worship. They were also racist. How do you justify having to be a "card carrying member" of an exclusive "club?" Why do you baptize the dead...and engage in occult practices and "spiritism?" Where did the planet Kolob and the idea of celestial marriage/sex/procreation come from? What about the sacred underwear? All of this is anti-Biblical, and the Bible has been around for a VERY long time(though there are some errors in it). I do admire the family-oriented, wholesome living aspects of the Mormon Church, but it DOES operate on a type of "caste system," and that is not good. I can't think of any "religion" or denomination that has it ALL right.
Researching truth among a bunch of fictitious religions and declaring you've found it is circular reasoning. You'd be better off using the Harry Potter series as your basis.
Just one of your absurdly illogical statements that you cannot in any way prove, but you assert as true:
"I have discovered that God answers the prayers of all people who call on Him."
Prove it!
This was great. But blows my mind🤯🤡 to think some of my relatives were pioneers in the Mormon cult. How weak minded were the people back then
I'm a historian and just stumbled upon this presentation, no LDS background... That said, I don't think the LDS pioneers are any different from people today if you learn about the social context back then.
They were reading the printed word of books and newspapers, and there was a mix of truth, sensational lies, embellished stories and tall tales. Some writers offered true information with great integrity while others were trying to manipulate readers for personal gain. We get all that these days too.
Meanwhile folks who are ignorant, disillusioned, confused or rebellious...they all can be drawn into a movement that somehow appeals to them, or resonates with them. Folks are still doing that today.
An individual needs to know oneself and one's own vulnerabilities. It takes humility to admit your ignorance, your temptations and your need for God's help to properly discern things.
One's journey to seek truth, find hope and explore the unknown requires God's Spirit guiding you for your benefit and protection not simply your heart drawing you into all kinds of folly!
We're still weak minded.
The part about the T&S saying ‘Nephi’ instead of ‘Moroni’ made me wonder how misleading this video would be to most listeners who might not be aware that well before the 1842 T&S printing which included that error, there were already multiple accounts in existence where the angel was named ‘Moroni’, including in Mormonism Unveiled in 1834. The earliest accounts naming the angel identified him as Moroni. Other than that this video was really educational for me. Thank you for sharing your work.
So, was it a correction or was it a redaction?
@@BFDT-4 Well, since the earliest accounts say "Moroni", and this account is over a decade later, it simply looks like the "Nephi" in 1842 was a mistake made by whoever was working at the Times and Seasons printing press. But I suppose it's at least possible Joseph Smith was still oscillating back and forth on whether he wanted it to be the angel Nephi or the angel Moroni. However, that just seems like an unnecessary risk to take, since it would expose his fabrication of the whole thing, given that many people apparently already knew the story about Moroni. What do you think?
Unless you are already part of the cult, the whole thing sounds like a fast-sell thing.
For outside are dogs and sorcerers, and whoremongers and murderers and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
"Christian magic"? The two are mutually exclusive. There is nothing Christian about magic. All magical arts were absolutely prohibited under penalty of death in the Mosaic law.
Also, "Many of them also who used magic arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver" (Acts 19:19). This was an act of repentance unto God.
What you have discovered is fascinating and I was happy to subscribe to your Channel to learn all I can about what I call "Religious Nonsense" ~!!!!!
May you hearken unto the Divinity of The First Visitation and the ordained meeting of Moroni
Great Job, Dan !!!!
Seeing that you are bereft of a Biblical basis for your assertion that such practices are Christian, you should, at the very least, in the interest of accuracy, qualify your use of such words as Christians & Christianity by enclosing them in quotations. It is established strong & clear in Christian Scripture that engaging in any form of magical arts or sorcery is, in actual fact, anti-Christ activity.
It is no stretch to refer to JS as Smith, the sorcerer. Do you know that he ever repented?
it appears that a good portion of the quotes are from Eber D. Howe's "Mormonism Unvailed" and it occurred to me that maybe a good topic for a future video would be a discussion of the value of this book and any critical shortcomings you might regarding this. I found this very interesting and can tell you that my opinions lean towards yours Dan Vogel. Thanks for sharing and hope you don't think me to presumptuous to make that suggestion of the future video. thanks
The assumption is that JS (not Mormons) changed his revelation. I don’t think they were embarrassed as much as they wanted to link it to the Bible. Dowsing isn’t limited to Satanists. It’s more of a pseudoscience than religious practice.
Dan Vogel // lol witch hazel sticks..oh that's not weird. he has tricked millions. stolen sheep from our father. fear the Lord
his wrath will be poured out without mixing!!
Didn't it occur to anyone the days of intermediaries e.g., priest, Seers etc were over. The Book of Hebrews makes that clear.
Human "Go Betweens" man and God ended with Thee Sacrifice and the aencingOmni ❤Presence of the Holy Spirit in the heart of every Beliver? "Which will teach us all things"
Yet, there's still folks who think God, who can change the world in the blink of eye or quicken hundreds at Pentecost still needs someone to go digging in the dirt looking for a box with a message in it from God who wants it communicated to human kind.
A limited idea of God for limited and guilable people who trust the fanciful works of man rather than trust the promise of being led directly, intimately by the Omninisant,Omnipresence God who wrote the law in stone.
Mr. Smith clearly had a finite understanding of God who is limited in his means of communications with Belivers,
The most unatural thing for the natural mind to do is Be Still and Know" Most modern Belivers will do anything from feeding the poor to building temples rather than go to where are they are told to meet be known and Know.
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The spectacles themselves are an anachronism. Wireframe glasses weren’t invented until 17th 18th century? How did they get in that box? The whole thing looks suspiciously Victorian to me.
My point is background & context for prophetic prominence. Roots & soil.
This should be enough so that any educated Mormon would immediately seek how to resign and leave the cult behind.
Here's the open door:
quitmormon.com/about