Can a F-104 Ever be Competitive?
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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🔎 Most variants of the Starfighter are hopelessly outclassed by the F-14 Tomcat and MiG-23 MLD, yet one stands out in the meta. The Italian F-104S ASA is honestly one of my favorite aircraft in the game right now.
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Give me your golden eagles you have no idea how bad I need those
Nothing beats the majestic engine sounds of the F-104.
you were scared of it😳(sus)
Maybe the scream of an SU-57
@@nighttide3079 reported for pro Russian propaganda and advocating Ukrainian war. Own up Mr Utka 😡😣
@@kingghidorah8106 I'll have you know I liked Soviet jets before this whole bullshit Ukraine war started. c:
@@nighttide3079 i was clearly joking, rus jets are kewl, rus politik is blyat, He Hada PoccNa
German player almost crashes his F-104 on landing, my god the jokes are writing themselves
Oh no
Krauts literally cannot point down safely in that plane
I love this thing with all my heart, just with the 9Ls wouldn't immediately be distracted by 1 flare
Also the 36° Stormo skin it has belongs to one of 2 wings that were responsible for the defense of Italy from Russian and Libyan aircraft during the cold war, and is the squadron my grandfather flew for most of his career
The 9L is so random. Sometime it completely ignore flare why other time it just losing lock right of the rail
wait, it hasn’t been a year and a half yet.
The f104 ASA could have been competitive but they made it so underwhelming, and it's basically a laughing stock. Aspides are amazing but you can't bring a gun with aspides, only 4 missiles and no gun, the Aim 9 L is trash because balance for A10 at 9.7, The RWR only has audio cues, no visual indication. Because "historical accuracy" even though it's the ONLY vehicle they try to make historical accurate RWR. Seriously this is a big handicap at top tier.
To be fair the real ASA had an integrated ECM, sadly they aren't a thing in the game yet, but when they add them the ASA will probably enjoy its situation way more.
Not bringing a gun is kinda problematic but, to be fair, it's an F-104, you're not really going to turn fight anyone so the gun mostly becomes useful in the CAS role.
The AIM-9L WAS trash, but since the new patch it's way better, despite not being able to hit the 30 G instantly; sometimes it even tracks targets that are flaring and turning.
And about the RWR being only audio, despite a visual one being better, you can still triangulate the enemy position to get a notch by using the blind spots on the back and the belly.
soviet aircraft also have historically accurate RWR, it doesn't show exact position
@@zmyslowykaloszbut on the ASA you litterally have no intelligence about position. Not from the RWR at least. You just see the circle, no lines.
In real life this was because it had an internal ECM system, but it's not in the game.
The F 104s have an arrestor gear allowing for carrier landings, and from my tests you get an air spawn starting above Mach 1, arguably better than landing on the airfield, just make sure you land without dying
IRL those hooks are only strong enough for catching emergency nets on runways to slow the fighter down. If you tried that on a carrier, the hook would be ripped off or worse, rip away part of the plane. Again, this is IRL, I know War Thunder isn't realistic at all
@@DeadBaron Also in many cases you can't actually bring the hook back up. Once it's down, it's down until the ground crew stows it (or more likely, replaces it).
Not to mention that the tires would explode and the gear would collapse if you tried to make a carrier landing, which drop much faster and harder than landing on a runway. This is why even aircraft that retain their navalized tailhook (like land-based F-4 variants) can't land on carriers either.
And with no launch bar or bridle hooks, the only way to get a Starfighter back off of the carrier would be with a crane. Or pushing it over the side.
The hook was NOT for carrier landings, but only for emergency landings on regular airstrips. Even the F15 and F16s have that kind of hook... and none of them were designed for naval operations.
@@gufo_tave even still, it can be used for carrier landings in game
You just got a really love and appreciate the ace combat seven music in the background it just adds so much goodness to the video! 🎉😊
Finally, a CZcamsr with a good upload schedule.
Finally, a youtube acc with a normal username
@@TARmeow Finally, a CZcamsr who got on Thunder Show while using the Yak-38
the f-104A is in such a weird spot. ik this is about the S but like can we get some love for the A? you get 10.0 but only aim-9b's and the repair cost is stupid high. plus no flares... brutal but hella fun when you are able to do well
it should go up in BR, some planes need to suffer bc 9.0s see that plane too often. The F-104A needs to be 10.3 and matchmaking to 11.0 needs to be cut off for it.
don't worry aim-9L are shit
@@specialman6004 sooo decompression? :D
@@xloltimex38 idk
the f104A is the best 104 ironically, as it got the new engine update it is literally as fast as the rest of 104s with a bonus of being one of the best stall fighters in the game for ascending spirals. The AIM9Bs are OK but having better missiles is worthless since most stuff you face has flares except russian jets. The main problem I have with the F104 is the tiny vertical stabilizer that makes it really stiff when deflecting a shot, especially since the 104 doesn't have turn nor AOA
3:50 Wrong, You can dogfight F4's and win belive it or not, the F104's landing flaps are a fucking beast, it just takes a LOT of skill since its hard to maneuver, also trust me boom and zoom with guns are alot funner xD
5:40 next time you do tight turns remember this: airbreaks + combat flaps + hold E/W or Q/W and lean in + WEP off
Btw, so sad you got unlucky with a winter map during recording, winter condition maps make the F-104 like 100km/s slower and less maneuverable so you will never see its true potential on those maps, and yes you break wings on these maps, normal maps its almost impossible...
I agree the F104S is actually my most played plane and the Asa just took it up a notch I really love the plane. I can fly it better than I can my MiG23 😂
Also I would change your comment from Combat flaps to Takeoff flaps before someone tries to argue with you 🤣🤣🤣
I love flying the F104c, and I fly it at low altitudes to flank enemy jets and then they don't see or hear me because I was flying at mach 1.13. The c also can pull around 13gs with 30 minutes of fuel and aim-9s
Poor F-104A and C
mike did the snail release you from the basement or something?
The S in starfighter is for suffer. Seriously, I have never suffered more in this game than I have with the F-104A
Nah, F-104C is worse. Higher BR, still only AIM-9B...
@@sicksixgamer2694 they're the same BR my G
F104A is actually really good you just have to know how to use it
Yea the American starfighters are the worst starfighters in game the German and later Italian ones are probably the best
Yea but it only gets 2 sim 9b’s so you have to rely on guns unless you find a wallet warrior
Why dose the AC7 music fits the battle situation so much nice work
For me , i'm get more gun kill then the missile . sometime i even take 2 IR just want to fly more faster at the start. doing low alt sneak gun kill or gun head on . you fast they will have hard time to lock on ya .
heyo yimieee!
The air target belt on the f104 isn't reliable because of the low fragmentation value of the HEfi rounds, I'd stick with the default belts, that have more api for better results
Personally I prefer to bring Aspide missiles with me. With a little cautiousness and a little bit of luck you can survive up at like 4k / 5k meters, and those beasts mean business with their 35 max G overload and an amazing guidance. I'm even able to compete against a friend of mine when he uses the JA37, wich has a better radar from basically all points of view. Just gotta hit that notch, chaff a bit, recomit, missile off, try to stay as sideways as the radar allows you and most of the times it's a kill even if the enemy defends. And you're probably still alive as the Aspide is currently the fastest / one of the fastests missiles in-game, arriving at Mach 5.
P.S.: If you need to notch the enemy radar and don't know where the signal is coming from, use the RWR blind spots (on the belly and the back) to triangulate the position: start turning to a direction (possibly opposite to the enemy airfield) until while turning you can't hear the lock anymore and there you go you're notching!
F104A: The best performing 104, yet the worst in results because the tiny rudder makes it really hard to deflect.
It's basically a missile truck
@@emmata98 the f104A has two forward firing rockets that sometimes do crazy stuff and chase enemies, so it's not a missile truck. Later variants turn like shit but have the best missiles, flares and are some of the fastest aircraft in the game
@@kingghidorah8106 well it was designed to fly up intercept shoot missiles and run back to base.
so yeah missile truck just no capacity. maybe a pickup^^
The f104a is probably one of the worst because the only thing it gets is 2 aim 9b’s the German f104 and the asa and f104s are probably the best starfighter sin the game correct me if I missed any more
@@dankystanky7438 f104A is best performance like turning and acceleration
Still working on getting a later variant. The early variants without countermeasures are entirely useless at their own battle rating. Any plane above 9.3 without RWR is a complete waste of time.
Don’t rely on rwr use your eyes and pay attention trust me I’m on Xbox and it helps a lot and pc you can fly and look behind you at the same time so it’s easier
I 100% expected Daredevil to be here and you did not disappoint.
Babe wake up, mikegoesboom uploaded a video
The F-104S ASA is currently my only top-tier jet, so my experience is extremely limited. I'm no expert on jet combat, nor even an especially good player in top-tier. That said, I've had three distinct experiences with the ASA.
One, I fly straight in, hoping to get some cheeky missile kills and use speed and countermeasures to escape and stay out of harm's way. This rarely works, for obvious reasons.
Two, I climb to a fairly high altitude, since most top-tier engagements are quite low. I use this advantage to get above and behind, which allows me to missile unsuspecting enemies. This works... sometimes.
Three, the most likely and common result. I take care and I survive for so long that either my team sweeps the entire battle before I have any opportunity to engage, or the enemy team does the same. I'm left facing zero enemy fighters or ALL enemy fighters, and neither is ideal.
Support fighters are not good in top-tier. They cannot carry battles like other top-tier fighters, they cannot consistently perform well, and they cannot take on superior fighters without help or distraction. It's just not possible.
Please, at least buff the AIM-9L to its proper capabilities so we can at least launch them without fear of them randomly failing to track at the last second.
you should watch how to properly avoid missles also for missles you need to see who's paying attention. flares work fine but many people forget that if you are still w.e.p. even if you spam flares you will still get hit you need to shut off afterburner flare then you can go back to afterburning. you need to learn radar notching as well.
@@scuttlebucket2723 I've learned all of that, I know what I'm doing. Problem is, so do most of the people I've encountered. More importantly, the ASA really can't do the maneuvering necessary to dodge the better missiles at closer ranges, you just have to lose lock and hope they don't tunnel-vision you.
That's the big thing, if anyone specifically focuses on you, let alone multiple people, there's really nothing you can do about it. Your speed won't win you a dogfight, it'll just prolong it. Maneuverability can't match any top-tier jet. You only have a limited number of countermeasures, so it's only a matter of time. The ASA cannot dogfight on its own, end of story.
The a.s.a isn't a dogfighter its basically a boom and zoom picking off people that are alone or tunnelvision. If someone tunnel visions me I head to a map edge you'll get teleported facing them and if you miss you'll get away due to speed. If your dogfighting then your using it wrong heck I even use it to bomb some bases due to its loadout then lure people to my team mates it can be competitive but has to be used very cautiously
As an F-104G main (pre 9J), yes... yes it can. They all can.
Even the American ones?
@@Dan86130 As someone who has extensively played both the F-104A and C they are more than capable at their BR. There are quirks with the F-104's flight model that experienced pilots can take advantage of.
The 104Gs should've never received the AIM-9J in my opinion. They're a mistake at 10.7, definitely not good at all
@@Dan86130 No the US versions are complete garbo (there's a reason why the Airforce phased them out rather quickly) they lack all the important shit like countermeasures and high-G AAM's to reliability get kills, something all the other Lend-Lease starfighters know nothing about.
@@jfv2312 japanese 104j with 4 aim-9js but not countermeasures in the corner crying
yes! We use it in SRE battles with significant success in 9.7-10.3, top tier the MLD, 27K, and F14 take precedent
The f104’s are really good if you play them correctly
I wish the F-104G wasn't so high in BR and wish it didn't cost so much. I love that damn plane.
Get grinding then lol
Just a heads up from someone who has a more than 24hrs of playtime in thr ASA alone. Use the Vulcan. If you are accurate and have good trigger discipline you can get quite a few kills the missiles are really more for support. You shoot an enemy, even if you miss then they slow down. You get close and at the last minute hit them with a big L. (The missiles and a loss.) It's my favorite plane to fly because unlike the standard S (which I also love) you get flares and chaff. To bad we don't get 6 L like the standard S that gets 6 J's but I digress. Gaijin likes to fuck Italy harder than any other nation nut I've been grinding Italy since the nation came out in warthunder because I love their planes and their performance really doesn't disappoint but they rely on way more skill than most planes and that doesn't vibe with a lot of people and I get that.
Wish they could have trained our squadron in, y'know conditions that aren't Arizona Salt flats. Maybe those 60 guys wouldn't have lawndartet.
There is a dude on SIM that on TANK SIM just fuckin wrecks everything and have 6/1 KD on 104, so i think its skill based.
And in reality there is the 104A and 104C without flares getting clapped by a harrier because of mixed battles
damn the AC7 soundtrack really does work well with this game
also that battle with the F-14 and Su-22 was probably the best one I've ever seen
edit: this video has legitimately made me want to get back into the game and finally get my ass outta tier 3
grats on 77.7k subs
wait we've gotten next the 2 years' videos in advance guys
5:10. Unfortunately, the rules of top gun dictate that you would have never been able to save the f-5
i simply love the f 104 been inside one glad to see you make a vid on it mike
Awesome video lad, but god damn that aim against the F-14 xDDD Its pretty obvious you've gotten used to missiles ;)) Anyhow, awesome to see you posting a bit again, hopefully this could become slightly more regular than once every two years?
i love the f104 playstyle
real chads fly the F104 C version
Imagine being too fast to be effective in combat
if only the AIM-9L weren't broken and nerfed, they have the same model as the helicopter ones, they miss and they are extremely unreliable
man that is Daredevil Ace Combat 7 soundtrack
you can use the aspide with 9l's and the gun. the aspide are great for front aspect medium shots
I love the Ace combat music btw
Makes me feel better about missing all my shots, it sucks when its right there, and it should be a easy shot. I get pretty frustrated sometimes. Defyn makes it look easy.
The ASA would've been great, but it was added about a year and a half too late to have any time to shine. It's merely "ehh" now, and will only get worse in the future. It could be better if 9L's weren't in such a nerfed state - currently the only reliable A2A weapon system are the aspides, but you only get 2. The regular 104S would be better if it had countermeasures, since 9J's feel a lot more reliable in game.
hey mike after the resounding success of harrier 1 is there any information if harrier 2 is in development?
I play the F104a, and i fucking DREAM of this. missiles hit one 20th of the time.
Yes! So excited to watch this!
God I love the F-104S. But the 9Ls give me depression. And the repair costs give me ligma
you forgot to show off the ASA's new radar, with lookdown MTI mode
The F-104 used too be way OP when it first came out, because it's just boom and zoom, and there was absolutely nothing that could come even close to keeping up with it. Nowadays fighting an F-104 with most top tier fighters, is a lot like stealing candy from a baby.
ANKTHER VIDEO THIS DECADE???
F-104A at 10.0 with just 2 early missiles and no flares? No, not competitive at all and the 18k repair costs only makes it worse.
If you play it correctly and if you know how to aim you can be competitive
right now im on the f104g and grinding the 104s and its hell for me
Excellent episode. I’ve been very reluctant to go into the upper end of the Italian air tree because of how poorly the American and German* Starfighters fair at their BRs. I mainly blame the absolute unpolished turds known as AIM-9B. Particularly on the 104C as it only gets a pair and is outmaneuvered by everything it faces making even getting the missile in arc a miracle.
*Why don’t the German Starfighters put their Sidewinders on the wing tips? There are studies proving aerodynamic performance benefits to having Sidewinders and their rails or even the fuel tanks out there.
Maybe if Gaijin released this for Italy like 3 patches ago it could've been competitive. Italy always gets the short end of the stick.
any advice for the aspide missles
You said it had a "preventity" of braking wings off. You mean tendency as there is no such word as preventity.
we could get the starfighter that can turn, the F-106
It would also be a starfighter that cant fight lol
Yeah good luck killing anything with the Falcon missiles... But well maybe at a similar BR to F-104A or C it could work
@@jfv2312 The problem with the AIM-4s was more due to the F-4 not being designed to carry them and having the wrong radar. They were much more effective on dedicated platforms like the F-106, which also carried more advanced variants of the Falcon than just the problematic AIM-4Ds.
@@alexvolute7454 funny you say that because the F-106 was actually considered the one U.S. airforce fighter that could dogfight the mig-21, before you say "muh F-5" the F-5 was generally disliked by the U.S. airforce because of how simple it was and only was deployed in vietnam for a couple of months
@@smittywjmj but the AIM-4D was the last variant of the Falcon to enter service... There were others like the AIM-4F and G but those had appeared previously, as the armament for the F-101, 102 and 106. Their performance wasn't anything special either, somewhere in between an AIM-9B and AIM-9E in terms of speed and maneouverability. Still first generation, anti-bomber missiles by all means, tbh the most advanced missile the F-106 could carry would be the AIM-26B, but only one and not if it used the 20mm gunpod
Hello there
General Kenobi
Ah yes, Gaijin's favourite kid
Hehe F104 goes :WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM
In a field somewhere in Germany: SHIIING! BOOM!
Is that AC7 music in the background
Holy shit you have over 1000 orders 😂
I love me a good hot dog jet
StormtrooperGoesBoom lol
Italy need Tornado ADV
"Can AN F104......." Christ!
Where’s our F-14 video of you
Sorry to ask, but can someone identify the soundtrack played at the beginning of the video?
Daredevil from Ace Combat 7
In fact every single soundtrack in this vid is from ace combat 7 :P
Mig 21 can go Mach 1.8/9 at sea level and Mach 2 between 8 and 16000M
What variant and what game mode?
All f104s are free kills
i always wondered how it can fly with its small wings
I'm crazy to fly with this beauty xd
I hate that the German f104 gets a 10.7 and it always faces the top tier where it cant do much. It should be like 10.3
wait? i coulda sworn the F-104 was carrier capable...
It does technically have a landing hook, but it was not intended for carrier operations but rather emergency stopping if the aircraft rolled past the end of a regular runway.
*Ace Combat soundtrack, lol*
F-104 can be competitive with a good team around it! Can't really carry with it anymore
The F+104 is just bad. It has a great gun and can catch anything, but it can't kill anything that sees it coming. A weapon that relies on its target to make a mistake is a bad weapon (ie: "just sideshot it" is not a tactic).
I think you got your OST's mixed up my guy...
games that run you in the red... yet another reason to avoid top tier
What about the German F-104?
It has 4 AIM-9Js
Not when you have F5C's in every match they screw them up royally they can literally outperform F4's and F14's.
F5s can barely crack mach1, as long as you got flares they can't catch you :P
@@MikeGoesBoom Tell that to them flying circle's around F4's and F14's many of times I have been going mach and they still catch up with you, bad enough they spam flares to the point where you can't use AAM's but to pin one with guns is even worse, broken jet made to make money nothing more same as harriers.
This isn't nearly competitive as others 11.3s in the game, sadly Italy is the worst nation on the game
f104 a and c suffer very badly they fight 9.7s with fucking r60s and usually radar missiles and stuff with aim9e's that are on premium mig 21s not to mention the Usa f104 DOESNT GET ANY countermeasures OR anything above a aim9b
RWR hmm gaijin joke
what you mean competetive ? F-104 is nice easy top 10 at 10.0 and 10.7
Don’t you also have a MWO channel? Your voice sounds awfully familiar…
Two videos so soon? Is gaijin not paying anymore? XD
MINENCRAFTEN
I will always be salty that this US fighter has the worst variations in the US tree... When we developed and used variations just as advanced as the Italians and other nations. It doesn't make sense. The US ones don't even get freaking flares.
The US never used any variant past the F-104G, which were actually owned by the West German government, not US DoD, and operated only for training German crews. The only models purchased by the US government were the A/C (single-seat) and B/D (twin-seat trainer) models. After a brief and somewhat disappointing service in Vietnam, they were retired as early as 1969, with a few hanging on in the Puerto Rico ANG until 1975.
While Lockheed developed the initial modifications and produced a small number of F-104S models, it was never used by the US or any countries besides Italy and Turkey. And only Italy developed and used the F-104S-ASA and ASA/M models.
The only further use of the F-104 in the US were special demilitarized models for testing with NASA.
@@smittywjmj we never used the F-5 in combat roles either yet there are three versions in the US tree including premiums. Also I love to point out the R2Y2s, because they always throw realism out the window.
@@DeadBaron The F-5C was briefly used in combat in Vietnam under Project Skoshi Tiger before being turned over to the RVNAF. And the old rule was that the planes go in their country of origin, which is why the P-63s are in the US tree. Obviously that's no longer the case because it would be impossible with the more modern aircraft, but it at least sets a precedent for the F-5s.
The R2Y2s are unfortunate but it's not an excuse to go having *more* unrealistic additions. If you want an advanced Starfighter, just go play the Italian tree instead of asking for fictional variants to be added to the US for no reason.
@@smittywjmj not all of us are kids with unlimited free time. I ground out the original nations and now I have a wife and kid. Screw grinding the Italian line from scratch just for a starfighter.
The US could potentially get a much better preforming F104A, many of the As (if not most) where upgraded with the same engine as the f104s but in game it’s the pre-production model of the F104
Hey Mike I just want to say that your beard is too small for an Aryan man
First
man that is Daredevil Ace Combat 7 soundtrack
man that is Daredevil Ace Combat 7 soundtrack