The "Problem" with IDW Sonic
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- For a while it feels like IDW's Sonic series has been spinning its wheels. Let's break down why it feels like it's run out of steam and what can be done about it.
Video re-uploaded after feedback in the comments told me the sponsor I was working with was no good. Sorry again about that, I'll do better research next time. Unfortunately my Patreon read out won't be attached to this video, I just put it together and it'll take even longer to put this online if I re-render. It will be on videos tomorrow and Friday. In the meantime, would really appreciate any support on Patreon!
/ gameapologist - Hry
If characters have to maintain a status quo, it's inevitable that nothing ever truly happens.
The status Que is understandable as it is a franchise that continues to generate content despite the years, as Sonic is a franchise just like Transformers ,TMNT or Spiderman, not a self-conclusive work.
@@Xenox02-vu9rqTMNT is kind of always telling new and exciting stories. Sega just sucks
@@Xenox02-vu9rq Tmnt at least has the last ronin, mutant mayhem and Rottmnt which are fresh and new takes, transformers at least has transformers animated 2007 and even the recent cgi show, and the comics experiment and change things around a lot but it’s always intriguing, and some do some new things while still feeling similar.
Sega and Marvel however just refuse to change things and it gives new writers such a bad rep that everyone just automatically assumes they don’t know what they’re doing if it doesn’t reach their standards, it also doesn’t help that whenever comics or shows or movies try anything new, fans get all upset and preach that things should stay the same and why fix something that isn’t broken, and the Sonic fandom refuses to accept anything, let alone remain positive, but at the same time I can definitely understand the criticisms with idw Sonic even though I enjoy them, so honestly? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see and hope it gets better, it’s all I have lol
But how come Sonic Prime was allowed to do evil Tails?
@@300fusionfall because at the end of the series, it wasn't the real tails, and the real tails was restored.
So the tldr is “I’m not mad just disappointed “ with so much potential being squandered
Also: Game Apologist needs to look up a ReploidRevo. If Sonic doesn't change it's ways as a franchise, it'll be no different than Mega Man.
@@Gaia_BentosZX5 hey, i think it's also important to mention that that guy isn't the greatest person behind the scenes... a little bit of research and you'll understand
So... the Sonic series?
My exact feeling and with Franquise in general, we go to games and we ave the same problem, Sonic world feel small and restrictive, thougt so "Muder the sonic the hedgehog" and Frontier reduce it a little, quite ironic for a joke game, and one that have solitude and desolation as main world building elements, respectively.
@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL what do you mean?
Funny enough, this feels very reminiscent of old Archie
Big start with huge potential.
A gigantic arc happens.
And then the comic just goes all over because everyone is screaming to come up with something.
I really hope this comic doesn't sink to Archie Sonic's lows, though
Ian Flynn has proven that he's at his best as a writer when he has no limitations or restrictions on what he can do, his Archie run thrived because of this. I get they don't want another Penders situation on their hands but Sega should just trust Flynn because if they do he can bring a lot to the table that hasn't been seen before in the series.
By his own words Sega doesn’t restrict him all that much there are just things he obviously can’t address like romance and stuff along those lines but according to him more often than not, Sega let’s him get away with whatever he wanted to pitch.
Yeah
I don't think so😊
@@jaketylenolyeah people seem to act like the mandates are the end all be all to the comics when the book was already able to get away with so much stuff you'd assume it was a fanfic,
I really don't think they should remove the mandates because they exist for a reason like the other replies said we don't want it to become a fanfic people said the randomness is what made Archie great but even though I didn't read them I feel they didn't age well and even though people want them to be cannon they made it pretty clear that it isn't part of the main universe and contrary to popular opinion but I don't like some of sonics action like the time he made out with Bonnie while he was dating Sally or the time he dated another girl after his relationship with Sally just to many he jealous (this was post Penders BTW) and this one may not be right but I'm pretty sure that he was going to do something nasty to Fiona while they were in that bush( also knuckles committed incest, I am so done it's like the fandom wrote the comics, these are the reasons why I'm hesitant to read Archie) so after all that and Penders I'm glad it's another universe. And I don't really like Ian's writing some of it is long monologues during tense moments or we're running out of time moments and real people normally just say something sweet and inspirational and short, and admittedly I feel that he doesn't really understand the characters but regardless he does have good ideas and I feel he sometimes gets it right now matter what.(People make it seem they have tight reactions but most of it is just don't touch this.) also people forgot that recently he hasn't written much of IDW. So it's not the restrictions fault. And no I don't think they should just decannonise the comics unlike another comment said they should. And even though it's just me but I feel there shouldn't be a head writer position it should be a head team because it would help be covering the weak points like the pacing and monologues
I've been saying for a while that this series has the potential to have the same impact that the Metal Virus Saga had. The problem is that they haven't given that little push to drive the story forward.
We have intriguing characters. We have the creative talent behind it. We have an interesting world that has so much left to explore. For whatever reason, the creative process seems to be stuck in Labyrinth Zone, and they're waiting at every bubble station.
At some point someone needs to come up with a story that can freely roll down that hill and leave us wanting more instead of having to wait for all of these short-lived story threads that have been taped together and stretched out for a couple of years now.
Heck, it's the "Year of Shadow" and he's not even present in the comics after the last real arc.
This could've been a great time to have a "Team Dark" miniseries at least.
I didn't even think about that ! you're speaking facts.
I really want to do a Team Dark miniseries, but I can't see that ever happening.
Isn't the "year of shadow" label unofficial? It's literally just a movie and side content in an enhanced port. I think the name is grossly overestimating what we're actually getting. Sorry for going off topic but I wanted to vent my frustrations with that label, it's going to be the "year of Luigi" all over again.
Bro here pouring his heart out for the comics and I can relate 😭
tbh while I understand they can do more plot progression with IDW original characters than game characters, I've been getting annoyed by how they're popping up in literally every story arc while many game characters wallow in the background. It feels like ever since the Chao Races arc, Cream and Gemerl are relegated to occasional appearances where they do something inconsequential to the main ongoing plot. Knuckles is stuck on Angel Island, Big is stuck in cameos or short stories only despite Archie showing how fun he could be as a more active character, Team Dark and Team Chaotix sometimes appear for a couple issues before going back on the shelf, etc. Meanwhile Tangle, Whisper, Jewel, Surge, Kit, and Lanolin have what feels like a perfect attendance record. I love the characters, but I wouldn't mind some variety. The only game characters who keep showing up are some combo of Sonic, Tails, and Amy.
This is what I've been thinking.
I'd be far more interested in seeing Team Dark stories and how Shadow as a character is being repaired.
Heck, it's the Year of Shadow and he's not even present in the comics after the last real arc.
I agree at this point. The status of Knuckles in these comics is honestly embarrassing. He's supposed to be one of the main four heroes alongside Sonic, Tails and Amy and has been marketed that way for *over a decade* at this point, yet in IDW he just keeps getting table scraps since Battle for Angel Island. You can't even really blame it ON Angel Island because the annuals exist. Even if there really was absolutely no way to get him into any of the recent arcs (which is silly because Silver and Blaze who are arguably even harder to write in are regulars), you'd think Knuckles (or Shadow, but at least with him we know *why* they're struggling) would be the first character to receive a solo story in one of those annuals, yet he didn't even *appear* in any of them until Guardians *which was a Blaze story.* A Blaze story that they had to print in the inevitable "Knuckles' Greatest Hits" collection because they didn't have enough stuff to print for the guy. I wouldn't even mind stuff like Amy replacing him on Team Sonic in the new Riders arc if he got other stuff to do or if they at least made it feel a little special whenever he does make an appearance the way early Sonic X did. But no, even when he does show up it's very casual and he STILL ends up getting shelved half the time. He didn't fight any of the Zeti in the Metal Virus arc, he only got a one-panel cameo in Winter Jam despite appearing on the freaking cover alongside everyone else, he didn't get to help with the Warp Topaz in the 900th Adventure special despite leaving Angel Island specifically to do so, a joke which completely invalidates the whole "he needs a good reason to leave Angel Island". Oh, and apparently he will have to share his 30th freaking anniversary special with *Fang* of all characters despite Fang literally just getting a whole damn miniseries to himself. Of course this is all just based on early announcements of this story as the "Knuckles&Fang 30th Anniversary Special", but considering Amy's comic didn't say "Amy&Metal Sonic" in the title, I see no reason why a *major core cast character* should be forced to share title credits with a minor villain who spent the vast majority of those 30 years gathering dust on Sega's shelves.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have characters like Silver and Whisper getting smacked with the same emotional beats over and over again to the point of fatigue and new characters like Belle, Jewel and Lanolin being shoved to the story frontlines demanding the same amount of attention and emotional attachment as characters who have been with the franchise for decades.
I actually really like most of the new characters, but they just keep introducing more and more of them when there are *core cast characters* that they are not being used to the extend they should be. I seriously think they should stop introducing new characters for a while, or at the very least stick to just introducing villains who can actually cause conflict for all those heroes who already exist rather than more heroes who then have to share and dilute conflicts they don't actually have any personal investment in.
That was kind of a problem with the Freedom Fighters as well. Probably why some people don't want them back.
I said this in my own comment. I like Whisper and Tangle is meh, but I’m so sick of seeing them appear so much. Either give the other game characters the spotlight or introduce new characters through proper world building and establish a proper setting, which is what IDW is lacking.
I feel like you guys don't know what main characters are Knuckles doesn't show up because Knuckles isn't with the main cast that's always been his character he's on his Island maybe this is hard to believe but the only main character is Sonic the only character consistently is going to be him
I've got a lot of issues with IDW right now, namely how certain characters are handled (Whisper is probably the most egregious example), but I think at the top of it is there's just no stakes.
Every single conflict after Metal Virus was handled with relative ease, Starline's demise was written on his forehead from the moment he defected. Surge and Kit were built up as these big powerful on the ground players, only for Surge to get no diffed by Sonic and I don't even remember what happened to Kit. Clutch still hasn't really done anything, Rough and Tumble are gag villains, Eggman is only ever involved when the heroes happen to stumble onto whatever he's doing.
It's difficult for me to feel invested in the current arc with Clutch and Mimic when I've seen the heaviest hitters (Surge and Kit) go up against the main party and lose *badly*, we all know at the end of the day it's going to come down to blows and Surge, Kit, and Mimic are going to lose and then Clutch is going to scurry off like the rat he is.
IDW needs more interesting, more powerful antagonists to drive the story.
Making Idw's canon is a mistake. If already in and of itself mandates limits comics, now they are more limited because it is now tied to games, limits the creativity of writers and artists. Hell, just let IDW be it's own canon, because combining 2 different mediums into one canon, in the long run, doesn't end well. Remember, not everyone who plays the Sonic games, reads the comics.
It has forced the comic to stay at a status quo. Stories cannot have major impacts on the universe because it could conflict with the games. so everything is cannot be to impactful. its like those prequel comics that the games have gotten since forces. they are more like additions onto the games instead of story's that could stand on their own.
It's only a mistake if they get restrictive about it, which they have. The Sonic world has plenty of preexisting material that would thrive on elaboration, with plenty of characters they could use without resorting to focusing mostly on OCs, and it could all be done easily without violating the central focus of the games so long as Sonic Team maintained good communication.
If the comics focused on the extended cast and universe, and the games focused on the main cast, it would be an incredibly enriching experience for the canon. And for a time, it was. It's a shame it's gotten stale.
@mythosinfinite6736 Just a cope. Stanley and the rest of the IDW staff pretty obviously are trying focus as much of the comic as they can on the Neo Diamonds/Restoration with the established main cast repeatedly needing to interact with them (see Sonic being written like he's at Lanolin and Co. beck and call complete) complete with them having Sonic say Lanolin taught him how to do teamwork (the same "REAL SUPERPOWER OF TEAMWORK" Sonic).
I think the one thing I miss the most from Archie was the characters having families before the lawsuit hit. Jules, Uncle Chuck, Max and Elias, hell, even Amadeus and Rosemary... those characters gave Sonic, Tails and the others extra pillars to lean on when they had their issues. The New 252 mandates really screwed them over, mainly Chuck. Man goes from being Sonic's biological uncle to "uncle to many", meaning his uncle title was now only honorary and he's just another hedgehog Sonic knows.
It was Ken Penders saving grace. He liked adding family to the characters and had them interact. It was neat to see Sonic talk to his a couple of times, but now Sega wants Sonic to be a cool heroic figure and nothing else.
It's sad because Uncle Chuck wasn't even a Penders Character aswell, the change was highly unneeded
I found it strange that they let Tails keep T-Pup, but wouldn't let Sonic keep Muttski as his pet dog. My only guess is that T-Pup is based on the Remote Robot from Tails Adventure.
@BumpBobLooly Muttski was in the rebooted series... but he was turned into an anthropomorphic dog like the rest of the characters instead of a normal dog like Pluto. He was reintroduced when they were adapting sonic unleashed in the Archie comics.
@@Mysticgamer That change was the sole thing that made me refuse to read the reboot, ngl.
I’m putting this comment back but just to be clear I think Ian has stated when it’s come to pitching story ideas more times than not Sega has had no issue with any of their ideas. They have restrictions to adhere to like with Shadow and co, but I think he’s said on Bumblekast they mainly have the freedom to do what they want so far. So I put this more on them than Sega on this particular case.
But I could be wrong and someone should fact check me this was many bumblekasts ago I remember him saying something like this
Can confirm. It was mentioned several times on the show, but just to cite one example, on October 19th, 2020's episode (at 47:35), Ian mentioned that most of Metal Virus he thought would be shot down. The only thing he could remember being disapproved at the time was Zeena kicking Cream when she was down.
It seems like that they have to pace themselves with the newly re-established pace of staying canon to the games. It means they have to line up their scope with game releases, so with however long it takes them to make a specific something, they'll need to pace accordingly.
iirc there's also a mandate that prevents them from adapting games and only taking place between them or in the background, which i think definitely hurts its potential
@@J.R.UnboundOh hey it's the guy who time stamps all of the BumbleKast videos.
@@J.R.Unbound oh wait for real you’re the Bumblekast time stamp guy. You’re awesome! Thanks for the time stamp
This is also why Adrenaline Dubs _(the YT team that brings Archie and IDW to life with amazingly talented VAs and more)_ have been doing more videos with the Archie comics as well.
1) There's not a lot of IDW Sonic for them to work with; and with what they do have... *It's bite-sized mini-adventures that can be read in 4 minutes.* Who's going to spend their time editing and bringing their VA cast for runtime as short as that?
2) With Archie, those VAs can explore their talents more. The presentation in the way the entire team captures Archie's best... It's both incredibly passionate, and effective for them as a team.
except they dont?
I dont know if they said something like that in their discord or twitter but they have only done a handful of videos of post SGW archie while they have pretty much dubbed IDW all the way up to issue 32 and they just finished the bad guys mini series a couple of days ago
Good on ya for owning up and removing the sponsorship.
What was it again and what was wrong with it?
@@speedboom9392Betterhelp, a very scummy program known for selling personsl data and hiring quacks.
@@speedboom9392 betterhelp, a very scummy program
@@speedboom9392 It was a sponsorship for Better Help which is a huge scam. Glad the community told him about it! Ty Nick. :)
@@pocketdog5006What’s Better Help?
17:44 It should go without saying but I would absolutely love to see you tackle both Evan Stanley's fan comic (or other notable fan comics) and the wider set of Sonic Archie comics in the future.
I frequently come back to your earlier IDW videos for entertainment, and as a sonic fan that never had access to Archie during its run, I'd love to learn about what made those stories great through your videos!
Agreed, ran through Evan's fan story during Covid and it was pretty interesting to see her art and story evolve from early deviantart angst to an official-esque artstyle.
Alot of sonic fans have very strange takes, but its refreshing seeing people in the know or creators with rational cool takes.
Definitely check out the recommendations at the end of this video, Lowart's series is an absolute masterpiece. God bless!
My only real beef with idw Sonic is that i think they blew their load too early with the metal virus. Yeah I know it's a remnant of Archie so it's no wonder why it happened so early into the run, but I think they kinda rushed through the Angel Island arc just to set up a status quo so they could go balls deep in the zombie apocalypse before we could really get used to said status quo.
What I would've done differently (not that anyone asked) is first, stretch out the Angel Island arc by a few issues to set up Neo Metal as a bigger threat and to give the battle for Angel Island more build up.
And second, I'd have some filler-ish stories to build up the world more before tearing it apart and put them between the end of the Angel Island arc and beginning of the Metal Virus Saga. Think like how Steven Universe has a ton of episodes in season one that's just a monster of the week or slice of life story to add world building before the big plot focused end of season arc. Not a lot mind you, I don't want it to be excessive. I just more than barely any, which is what we have. You could even add little bits at the end showing Eggman developing the virus a bit more to tease what he's planning, just to make the filler less filler-y.
But that's just me.
I feel like there would be no complaints with IDW if we got angel island > Misadventures > Eggperial City > Metal Virus > ect.
Seems like it flows way better
Im sorry they did what with their load
What about the Whisper and tangles mini serie? Didn't that happend before the metal virus? It does fit with your *have some filler-ish stories to build up the world more* comment doesn't it? While it doesn't expand the world itself, it does give us mire dept to ckarakters and gave us Mimic like a teaser for his future in the main comik. (specifically starting with the bad guys issues)
@@tntjrock3197 that's a completely fair point to make. I didn't mention the mini series' in my main comment because I didn't really know how to fit it in and I was more focused on the main series, but I've got a little bit of a problem with them too (specifically Bad Guys and Imposter Syndrome but it can apply to all of them). The fact that they're separate from the regular run kinda implies that they aren't important to the main story when that just isn't true. And including all of the mini series' in the main run would do a lot to help my issues with the pacing.
My big problem with the angel island arc is they had Blaze there and her involvement could be easily replaced with another character.
I think they should de-canonize IDW. Just let the writers do what ever they want. And if they want to add characters from IDW to the game, then they could just re-introduce them appropriately. Then new fans wouldn't have to re-read years worth of story to fully understand a character.
IDW doesn't really fit in with the game timeline anyway
@@ashuraomega1000i was about to write the same thing pal
Exactly, making everything canon is stupid. Sure the game sonic canon should be consistent, but everything else can be its own thing. Let IDW sonic be different just how Prime Sonic was allowed to be different (even if they were still called canon)
I think it's REALLY funny that Dr. Starline, whose whole purpose was a self imposed attempt to shake up the Sonic-Eggman status quo cycle, ended up getting killed off, in which the comics shortly afterward were trapped in "Status Quo Purgatory".
@@hunter837 And with his death, ian also left as head writer. Divine unintended metaphors.
literally just finished up reading Issue #69 when this was originally uploaded, fitting.
Honestly this is something I've been feeling with the comic run about around issue 64, I think after the end of the surge saga is when this issue went into full effect the comic itself due to being tied to canon can't really do too many status quo changing things now and as such has just kinda devolved into a bunch of meandering around with lower stakes adventures, while also ironically putting some of their best arcs as as side series rather than just have them be apart of the main comic, compared to how things started with the neo metal saga and the zombot arc, it really does just feel like the comic is spinning it's wheels and is afraid of committing to anything long term.
don't get me wrong I still enjoy the comic but I hope after the mimic stuff is wrapped up we get an arc that's more high stakes and ambitious, there's so much interesting stuff they could do even if limited to just the game canon and I feel there just not doing it.
Not to mention all the idiot balling, archie esque drama infused in since 64. They did a good job making all the Diamond Cutters look like morons who dont get along.
I think the big issue is that they had to wait for all the extra DLC for frontiers to be released before they could do something more, that likely delayed their plans for a while
Well that and suddenly having the fang mini series forced into being the main series for 4 whole months, we know they have already finish this arc's production for a while thanks to some filtrations so its obvious not something they had planned
Yeah pretty much. tying the whole thing to the games has made them more into additions to the games rather than stories that can stand on their own.
ORLY911 They're just trying to make IDW be as much like Archie they can get away with. The Restoration/Resistance pretty much are a wannabe Freedom Fighter branch with Sonic written as someone at their beck and call rather than a lone wanderer who runs into villains by incident.
Transformers comics is primo example of brand letting creative people do what they able to do and what they want, and result is astonishing.
MTMTE, Lost Light, Skybound most recently, all excellent series, exactly because of minimal mandates
Absolutely
Well, in the pre-genesis era, Sonic comics didn't have so many limitations, unfortunately the issue with Archie, Penders and politics, is that they implemented mandates that are still in place today.
Transformers is the kind of franchise that can really have plenty of different iterations without people questioning it though. Sonic is a little different. Having drastically different continuities where the differences wouldn’t be obvious at the surface levels (like, obviously Sonic Boom was doing its own thing) could be a little alienating for outsiders in the past. I say that as someone who loved Archie Sonic as a kid… and anyone I tried to share it with was deeply puzzled by it, even some people who were aware of and liked the SATAM stuff. I think the IDW comics have tied themselves to the game canon so much that it’s basically gone in the other direction though, and I don’t think the writing needs to be this restrictive either.
TMNT as well with The Last Ronin.
They have the luck of talented, professional and passionate team that can be trusted to make good stuff.
Just having minimal mandates doesn't guarantee anything.
You see Batman tas. That show was a complete fluke. DC just wanted an animated Batman cartoon to go with the 89 film and cared not of the quality. It was only luck that it turned out the way it did because it had staff that cared and respected the legacy of Batman.
I'm actually scared that this "boring" story arch is the calm before the storm. I fear that the villains are going to destroy the base and hurt (or worse) a lot of heroes. That this calm arch is the last comfort story arch before doom. I love a bad feeling this is the "Happy nation" part of the story.
I believe IDW is suffering from a transition period while Sega gets their "main canon" together with the new game releases. It has to spin wheels until the new X Generations and Frontiers 2 are released and set in stone what Sonic's world is and what characters roles are. It's kind of a rebranding as Sega takes their swing at being a big game publisher again- and Sonic is the forerunner. While I DO like the lighter stories of the new issues, I don't think they can really let loose until Frontiers 2 sets the tone.
More than frontiers 2 it's more Frontiers itself that stopped the comics for a while
Ian has said that at some point in the near future IDW will advance into a post frontiers world which will likely allow more stories and other fun stuff (like the introduction of sage) and i think they we're getting ready for what back in 2022 but the DLC slowed down their plans since the writers had to wait for all the story DLC to come out before they could start writing a post frontiers comic
But then once final horizons came out they got stuck with the 4 month mini series (i think they likely through that mini series was going to be like their past mini series that it was going to be released alongside the main series but their plans were shifted at the last second) and now they at least need to finish this arc before they can trully get something new
So while they waited the comics have as you said kind of just spinned their wheels
Yeah they are kind of in the middle of a shift where they transition with Frontiers and all.
IDW is still really cool, dont get me wrong! But they need to snap it out and bring up their A Game once its done. We didnt had something like Metal Virus for a while. And MAYBE the Metal Virus Arc was a bit much THIS early, literally the second arc, gotta push back a similar level.
SO do you think IDW will transform inro something canon with the games or will they make a new comic serie that will be canon with the game? I kinda hope they transform IDW into canon. I really wanne see more of some of those ckarakters and i wanne see them in-game one day. Whisper, tangle, Kit, Surge,Belle,... there are so many Ckarakters with potenstial for future games.
@@tntjrock3197 IDW IS canon, it has been canon since 2020 at the very least
Tangle was mentioned in frontiers
@@carso1500 Frontiers ending (the normal one not the from the dlc) also has Amy mentioning Sticks and she was only ever in the Sonic Boom time. Wouldn't that mean that Sticks is technical also in the IDW canon despite having zero appearance there and maby also never is gonna be appear?
I will forever miss pre-reboot archie so much. Genuinely the best sonic universe they've ever established with so many exciting plot threads and exclusive characters. It's such a huge shame it all got cut off and rebooted so suddenly and that it'll never come back
@kokostale3080 Eh it stayed in its lane I'll let it have that.
I think this is the drawback of the "Everything is canon" mindset. Its cool that continuity is closely followed my moat of the franchise, but it remives the ability to experiment & go in bold directions. Everything is canon, but that means going forward everything HAS to be canon.
Tails is orange.
The comic stated his equipment is yellow, and Tails' fur doesn't match.
I've never thought Tails was yellow, and I'm not sure why people started saying he was.
He’s been yellow since Heroes. I think they wanted the main trio to have the three primary colors for their fur so they changed Tails’ color, but I vastly prefer when he was orange. I’m glad he still is orange in the comics.
Tails was originally Brown (Prototype) then Orange, never yellow, Yellow is Ray
@@shroomfruit345It actually goes back even further than that. He's been yellow since at least Adventure.
Depends on the era/artist
I've never really noticed. The colors are so similar it could/can be either or.
Glad to see people catch up on how flawed idw is
Imma be honest I fell off during the metal virus saga because I felt like the story was just very boring and I had a hunch that the upcoming stories wasn't going to be what I hoped for.
The thing that made Archie sonic so good was that it was doing it's own thing. When I pick up a sonic comic I don't want to expect sonic from the games, I want a completely different experience. I want to be able to dive more deeply into the relationships Sonic builds with others and be able to be immersed in the world building. A comic book shouldn't feel like a game, I want to sit there and get lost within the panels and take in the raw emotions of each character, I want to see how they tackle different situations and how they grow from it.
IDW is all over the place. Metal sonic came out of nowhere in issue 7, We was at a completely different place after the metal saga that it felt like a genesis wave, and new characters were being introduced so fast that we didn't have enough time to develop relationships with the newly introduced characters. They hit the ground running when idw initially dropped but I agree some parts just dragged and I lost interest.
I think Sega just needs to loosen up so much control and let these people get creative with world building. Introduce new writers and maybe have a solid team of new fresh ideas. Archie had it's issues yes, but it introduced so many great ideas and focused on specific character arks and the world they were trying to build. We actually saw character growth in Archie and they wasn't afraid to break character when need be.
Sega is not controlling anything kid
@lazyvoid7107 The alternative is blaming Flynn and Co. and we can't have that.
Honestly the biggest problem with IDW is that you can really tell none of the writers have any idea what direction to take the book in now, there is no real planning because the writers have coasted along on the same “4 issue arc structure” for so long that it’s really all it has left.
Because of that a lot of the more recent plots have become more and more contrived just to get to the next part of the arc: A good example of this is the entire duo traitor plot that literally hinges on lanolin deciding to trust some random suspicious new guy over the teammates that have literally saved her life in the arc that came just before this. If she isn’t easily manipulated by Duo, then the plot couldn’t progress as easily and you might actually have to come up with a better scheme.
I’m not going to accept the excuse that “oh this is because of the completely nebulous and nameless mandates” because I just don’t buy that anymore. If these writers cannot work under these rules and still create a decently engaging and non-contrived story, then maybe IDW should think about replacing them. I know that sounds harsh, but IDW has continued to drop in quality with every succeeding arc... You can only blame Sega for so long before you start looking towards the writers making these stories and wondering who is really to blame. :/
@tennesseewastelandee7931 Lanolin's character comes off as a stand-in for Geoffrey St. John without the romance or being a pawn of a wizard (rebel commander who competes with or otherwise gets in the way of Sonic and his posse).
Long rant, read at your own risk:
Man I remember when IDW Sonic first released and I was so excited. The first two arcs were a great way to start this series off and I was hyped to see this comic be a successor to Archie. But ever since the Chao Race arc, I've just been bored. They keep doing small scale, light-hearted arcs while focusing on the SAME characters over and over again with Sonic, Tails, Amy, Tangle, and Whisper. The latter two I am so sick of seeing even though I still like them. Whisper's storyline especially has been nothing but wasted potential since the writers keep pairing her up with Tangle.
The world building is also lacking compared to Archie. I was so excited to see what kind of world IDW Sonic would introduce as I loved what Archie Sonic did with its locations and characters, both pre and post reboot. However, IDW Sonic's world building is so stale and inconsistent. And the storylines that could stem from this world are so boring and are nothing but a bunch of misadventures, all of which focus on the same group of characters. I know Archie Sonic mainly focused on Sonic and the Freedom Fighters, but at least it had the Sonic Universe comics on the side which focused on other characters and showed us what they were up to at the same time as the main characters, which created this immersive world with a lot of depth and storylines going on.
IDW Sonic still has some positives. Surge and Kit are great characters, Clutch and Mimic are interesting and have a lot of potential, Rough and Tumble are fine joke villains, and Starline was a dope homage to Snively. I'd love to see more interesting characters show up here because they somehow even made Zavok an interesting character. I don't care whether these comics are canon or not since they've done a decent job of making them fit in line with the games but at the rate they're going, they're not really contributing much to the main lore.
I'm still gonna tune in for every IDW Sonic drop because I don't outright hate this series. But man, I'm disappointed at the wasted potential so far. Hopefully they stop playing it safe and decide to take more risks with their storylines and expand the world building. Maybe even have their own IDW Sonic Universe stories on the side to give spotlight on the other characters if they want to focus on the same group of characters for the main issues. But as of right now, the post reboot Archie Sonic comics are the best Sonic comics out right now.
I think the point about worldbuilding is a good one.
Flynn is _not_ a good worldbuilder. All that lore-heavy work from his Archie run? He's mostly grabbing things that were invented by Bollers or Fulop or Penders or even Gallagher and Chacon, and putting a fresh spin on it. If you can name a standout character from his run, they were probably introduced by someone else. Scourge? Penders. Finitevus? Bollers. Mogul? Fulop. Elias? Penders again. Shard? Gallagher and Danny Fingeroth.
And this is most apparent in the reboot. Suddenly all that lore he was playing with gets copyright claimed, and he's left throwing AoStH characters and random townspeople from Unleashed at the wall in the hopes that some of them will stick, because it's all he's got left. He's got a talent for _using_ lore, not creating it.
Come IDW, he doesn't even _try_ to establish the world before he throws a zombie apocalypse at it and completely shatters a status quo that he didn't build, when he was starting from a point of the status quo _already_ being broken after six months of Eggman actually ruling the world.
@@ToaArcan What about post reboot Archie? We had characters like Eclipse, Gold, Phage, Spike, some of the Egg Bosses, etc. It’s been a while since I’ve read the Archie comics but I still remember these characters and the entire world of the post reboot. Did Flynn create them or was it someone else?
The current run is way more stationed in actual Sonic lore so he can't go as crazy as Archie
@@markjack9772 Idk I think he can. Post reboot Archie was more catered toward the games as well but there was a lot more freedom involved there. But then again, they didn’t try to canonize Archie like they have with IDW so maybe that’s the problem.
Surge and Kit would be amazing if anything of importance actually happened with them. We got a sort-of-cool fight with Surge's initial encounter with Sonic and a very obvious fake-out death, that did admittedly lead to the interesting thread of Kit possibly being able to turn around, but then the characters take the stupidest options possible just so Surge and Kit can be evil again and stuff. The fight in the test tube room was very neat, admittedly again, but all of that just to enter into this stupid, completely boring and completely obvious fake-redemption thing, not helped by the concurrent Mimic and idiot Lanolin plot, just makes me so disinterested! It's shallow, it's boring, it's predictable, and worst of all ーー it's MEANINGLESS! Just having characters show up isn't enough! When are we going to see them actually do something that isn't whining or being lackeys? Are we ever going to actually learn about their pasts? Are they actually amiable to the idea of willing to change, or even physically able to at all? This is the kind of stuff that matters instead of them just _plotting_ to be mean to Sonic's friends at some point in the future. At the very least just have them show up to break stuff occasionally so that something can actually HAPPEN in these comics.
Great video I love how your not shaming IDWs writers and giving solid reasoning for how you feel without it being a completely negative rant about how things should be along with focusing on how to make the comics better for fans new and old to enjoy these stories about are favorite blue blurs adventures, also thanks for removing the betterhelp sponsorship that company is trash
Modern Sonic just isn't as cool as he used to be. He's nice and friendly mostly now.
Classic is just cutesy and friendly now too.
To go back to a more chaotic time would shake things up.
I don't there's anything wrong with being nice but yeah his cockiness is what's important.
They lost their edge i guess
Sonic Frontiers exist, knuckleheads. The friggin Titans boss fights people.
Yeah as much as I like modern Sonic I feel like the Surge arc would be more impactful if Sonic was as cocky and obnoxious as he used to be in the 2000s.
That would REALLY put into perspective just how badly he fucked up in his first meeting with Surge and could lead into Sonic and Surge having a bit more of a unique dynamic where Sonic goes out of his way not to be a smart ass with her like he is with every other villain.
I'm not saying that we need to get rid of nice guy Sonic or that he needs to grow beyond his attitude, I'm just saying that attitude opens up new possibilities with Surge and Kit.
@@sugarsmile7852both sonics have, they’ve lost what make them cool in the first place, they feel so corporate now
Modern Lupin III is pretty good at maintaining a long-running general status quo, all while staying engaging and subtlely evolving relationships without sacrificing anything that would drastically change the brand. It'd be cool if the comics could do that and even have the games benefit from it - it'd be engaging for everyone while still being accessible for new people
How?
@@sebastienholmes548 good, thoughtful writing! Different set of restrictions, likely less severe.
@@bluesphere7 I'm not familiar with lupin III.
@@bluesphere7 I feel that SEGA would require a writer's room, one full of "competent" writers.
Lupin III is a great example in this regard and one the many long-running manga/anime series that i enjoyed growing. No wonder Miyazaki made a movie for him. I know they can do the same with Sonic at Sonic Team & SEGA, but the real question is: Will they?
I have loved IDW Sonic since the start, and still do. I agree with you that the team is restricted, and I hope this is lessened a little to allow more stories
From my point of view, I think what IDW sonic needs at the moment is a clear goal, and by extension a clear villain. When I look at the best arcs, they’ve all had clear villains who forced the main characters to act differently - Metal Sonic, Starline, Surge, Mecha Sonic. You can make compelling stories through having these to bounce off of. Even looking at reboot Archie, what immediately comes to mind is the Shadow/Eclipse storyline and the Egg Bossess like Clove.
I know we have Clutch, but the characters aren’t aware of him, and I think it’s removing any urgency - especially because other villains such as Surge and Kit, or Mimic have joined with him. If they were separate it means we can focus on what the other villains are doing while Clutch sets up his current plan (kinda like what was happening when Surge was the main Villain)
Eggman’s even more difficult for it, because he’s in the same position of “can’t alter too much with him” as the main cast.
With that said, I still love this series. The fact I’m wanting more from the characters, rather than wondering where the rest is, should say a lot.
Thanks to anyone who was interested enough in my ramblings to read this far!
I hope you don’t get too much negativity about comparing to Archie Sonic, that’s part of what you do and what I enjoy about your channel.
Yeah, centering Clutch as the new arc's main villain was not a great choice imo. I personally find him rather boring as a character, he's lacking a hook of his own. His "hook" currently is that he may or may not know things about Starline's plans for Surge and Kit, so he's actively living off of the legacy of the *previous* main original villain who had a much more interesting personality as well as direct beef with Sonic and Eggman. Clutch is so impersonal of an antagonist that it's difficult for me to care what his goals even are.
@@rainpooper7088 Clutch has a lot of potential tbh. A mob boss type villain sounds like an interesting character and can even possibly serve as the perfect antagonist to the Chaotix. Too bad they haven’t done much with him but let’s see
@MattAnd Just bring back the Battle Kukus already.
There's probably been a slowdown with IDW Sonic for two most likely reasons:
-IDW company itself is having budget trouble
-Sega and the "lore team" are currently regrouping to get everything ready for the next big game (whatever comes after Sonic), which includes deciding what they want to do with new characters and concepts introduced in Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Superstars, and Sonic Dream Team. We haven't seen any of those elements in the IDW comics yet, which will feel really weird if we don't see any of them (like Sage) by the end of this year. At least to me.
Also, I had asked comic book shops near me. And young kids ABSOLUTELY pick Sonic comics up. At least, a healthy amount of them as comic book sales go.
Ngl issue 69 just dropped and its really good
It made me excited for this new arc
Seconded, #69 is packed with so much personality and fan service, it's a joy to read.
Honestly since the Urban Warfare arc I haven’t really enjoyed the IDW comics like I used to, I don’t hate them and I still keep up with them but I just haven’t been as hyped for the issues coming out as before, not that good stuff hasn’t come out since that arc.
But this new Riders arc is off to a really good start and is I’m starting to get excited about this comic again, can’t wait to see where it goes!
Ever since Starline was killed off I've been struggling to find interest in the series.
Tangle, Whisper, Lanolin, etc are all fine but you NEED an antagonist who is capable of moving the plot in some direction.
Eggman, as great as he is, either isn't able to do that anymore or isn't willing to do it for in story reasons.
Surge and Kit aren't able to do so because fundamentally they're not evil, just brainwashed pawns with their own issues they're slowly working out and without someone like Starline guiding them they're just two strong aimless cyborgs without much of a goal.
Mimic is...underwhelming as a larger threat because Whisper can immedietely sus him out in his disguises.
Zavok was shipped back to the Lost Hex so we likely won't explore him further any time soon.
Rough and Tumble are fantastic comedic antagonists, but they're not a threat at all to anyone even vaguely competent.
That leaves Clutch as the sole hope for an actual threat to the resistance until Eggman decides(or is let by Sega) to get more villainous again...and I'm not sure he's capable of such a hard task that at current.
LETS GO MEGABEATSMAN MENTIONED
Megabeatman is great.
Thanks for adding in the JP Sonic X music. Not many CZcams channels are even aware of it to use as background music.
If you think you're bringing back archie, you can always bring back fleetway
Because even fleetway was far more creative freed than IDW
@rocky-my5ck It was frankly overall a better take on Sonic thnlan SatAM/Archie. Even had some swell ideas the games could use (Super Sonic and Knuckles' backstory).
The ironic thing is, for as much as you talk about the comics being held back by the games and how they’d be better as their own continuity…you’d probably need to do that if you ever wanted to use the IDW characters in the games.
They’d need to be introduced in any major game as if it’s their first appearance. you can’t just introduce Belle without us even establishing that Eggman ever even had amnesia unless you change Belle’s backstory. You can’t tell us about all these adventures against Dr.Starline that ended with his death, and the players see none of it; just go read the comics. You can’t do that.
So honestly, it feels almost inevitable that IDW will have to become a separate continuity from the comics anyway.
It's the problem I've always thought about regarding if they ever bring IDW characters to the mainline games. Nearly all of them have some baggage to them that I feel makes it difficult for them to be easily introduced to new players. The only ones who don't I'd say would be Tangle, Jewel, Rough & Tumble. Tangle's a simple character with a simple introduction, Jewel being the new Restoration leader makes sense since Knuckles wouldn't be able to anymore and there isn't much of a need to dive into why Jewel took over, Rough & Tumble are simple, low-level thugs without that much baggage needed for introducing them. Whisper might not be too hard to introduce, but I think it could still be difficult for people new to her to get invested without knowing her story from the comics.
@@ScottPillgram20 Honestly even Jewel can't be introduced quite so easily and identically to the Comics; because as a guy who's still more into the games than the comics, I can tell you that hearing her description as 'the new leader of the Restoration' would just have fans going: "Oh sweet, new organization and mystery. I wonder what happened to the old leader? Wait, why is everyone acting like they know this lady? What are they even restoring...the aftermath of Forces? That was 7 years ago, what? Wha-the Restoration was just the Resistance and the old leader what Knuckles?!?" It's a bit too much comic-style continuity to drop all at once on folks who just play the games.
On the other hand, it's probably not hard to think about how to simplify that into a backstory befitting a character's first appearance: She's the director of a non-profit activism organization for whom helping is right up Sonic's alley, and also she's a close friend of Tangle and maybe Amy & Knuckles. Done.
Same with Belle: She's a robot designed by Eggman to be a helper and perhaps mascot to Eggmanland or one of the many other theme parks he makes; but when she finds out how he makes those parks, she has a crisis, runs away, and eventually joins up with Sonic & friends. Boom.
An important step in bringing comic characters into the games is to start writing them as game characters, but luckily that's not actually too hard. For most of the IDW-originals, it's not actually that hard to think of a way to simplify their lore into something introduction-friendly.
The hard part, I suspect, would be doing that for a lot of characters at once. You can fit in Tangle, the Diamond Cutters, & Mimic into a game with some new version of their plotline; but it'd be trickier to do that _and_ introduce Belle _and_ do a new version of Identity Crisis that brings in Surge & Kit. Not impossible, but undoubtedly tricky.
But on the other end, games come out slow enough that they won't get far doing a few at a time and playing catch-up with the comic cast that way, even if they just stuck to the fan favourites like Tangle or Surge. Especially if they also wish to do this for whatever worthwhile characters Sonic Boom had; which they seem to.
(Honestly, I'd never normally suggest this, but I half think it might be a solution to this for Sonic Team to make some kind of live service-y kind of game with a lot of characters. Like a MOBA or hero...platformer? Whatever. Point is that kind of model would be a way to get a lot of charcaters and their backstories to the general playerbase fast, without being literally all at once. And then the average player would know just enough about Mimic or Surge & Kit to justify a few sub-plots in Sonic Frontiers 2.
Or, dare I hope, a whole campaign in an Adventure/Heroes type of game.)
@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg Whisper's backstory doesn't fit in the games since it's the case that no one has ever died from the Eggman's schemes while IDW has Eggman undeniably be responsible for the deaths of Whisper's teammates besides Mimic. Flynn said he was informed about Eggman never killing in his podcast.
Sage did survive. She was in the end of The Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog
Wait is that game actually canon?
@@lyricaldridge2030yes
@@lyricaldridge2030 Apparently: I was surprised too
@@natoriousthehopeful2786 Dang.
So was Metal. Which, randomly, means he's currently back to "lapdog" status. I know he's been that in the comics, but he's taken a break in the games.
16:14 and that's the key problem, isn't it? Sammy boughtout Sega because they wanted a wholesome mascot and the thoughts ended there.
25:57 I was actually onboard with the show right up until the toxic mess that was episode 3.
but isn't the misadventures arc now over?
with the start of a Riders based arc
also, I still hope we'll get a Prime follow-up arc one day
You have way better integrity than most of this platform, really looking forward to watching this video and many more in the future
We have seen that the Chaos Emeralds have some form of impact on wildlife, such as from the end of Sonic 1. I would love to see something like this be expanded upon in a future story.
Wow respect for reuploading it because the sponser was bad
Can you give context to what you’re talking about?
@jaylenbutler899 he had a sponsorship in the first version that turned out to be a scam. So he re-uploaded without the said sponsorship
@@Klied wait, when was that?
@@NaOkii like 1 hour ago
@@Klied WHAT SPONSOR??
Ive always said that stuff like idw and prime being canon to the mainline will always hinder it, there is so many eggshells when it comes to mainline and because of this, IDW plays things extremely safe
I also heard through news networks IDW has been struggling with sales across all the boards were their comics and they had to lay off staff so maybe only publishing one sonic comic at a time is probably their way of saving on cost
I have to agree with you, here. I’ve read every Sonic Archie comic, and even at its worst, I was still interested in seeing what would happen next. It all felt like it was heading towards some crazy destination, whether it was the convoluted Echidna politics, Antoine being stuck in Moebius for a year and no one mentioning it, the love squabbles, the deaths, the genocides, the change in locales, the dropped plot points because the writers kept stepping on each other’s toes, all of it felt like the world was growing and changing no matter what was going on, and made you invested in seeing what would happen next.
As far as Sonic IDW goes, I don’t think that it being supplemental material is the problem, it’s mainly the restrictions it has. In MLP IDW, for example, nothing was off the table and they could do and establish whatever they wanted. The only caveat was that if the show contradicted the comic, the comic would just quietly retcon it (like the Changelings, the Sirens’ backstory, or Sombra’s comic-only backstory/redemption). But Sonic IDW isn’t given that creative freedom, and we’re consistently left with scraps without characters being able to reach their full potential.
Personally, I’d prefer it if SEGA acted like they used to, where every country got to do whatever they wanted with Sonic, and everyone was happy.
@whichcache2517 Archie just doesn't fit with how Sonic was estasblished circa Adventure. Even in the comics you can see how they had to do reworks and retcons to fit in bits of game canon like Station Square (there was an entire city of modern non-mutant humies hidden away to fit in how Station Square was shown as a modern day Cancun inspired city with the NPCs not being hostile to Sonic and Co. at all or finding their presence surprising).
@@galten7361 Yeah, I figured that the reason Station Square was the way it was, was because they had managed to survive underground while all the post apocalyptic stuff was going on (namely the Xorda’s evolution bombs), hence why they were regular humans instead of Overlanders (5 fingers instead of 4).
That being said, even with all the retcons, and forgetting/dropping crucial plot elements, and the authors stepping on each other’s toes with regards to setting up plot points (like everything relating to post-timeskip Antoine), I still found the chaos really interesting and engaging. With IDW, it’s hard to maintain excitement when the most interesting stuff is going to happen with the new characters, and seeing Clutch be set up as Ian Flynn’s 3rd attempt at a Sonic Kingpin-type character (his retooling of Mammoth Mogul, Breezie the Hedgehog in Post-Genesis Wave Archie, and now Clutch). Not to say it’s bad or anything, but IDW is a bit more slow-going (especially when it’s still ongoing as opposed to a binge-read I can finish in a few months).
I feel for me while I do enjoy IDW for its moments such as the Imposter Syndrome Arc, the Metal Virus Arc, or the arc with Eggman I feel the IDW comic feels a bit corporated as well as the writing in general on Sonic. The comicd never get mentioned by the video games. Frontiers mentioned other ethos or characters but the IDW Comics never expand it.
In my opinion, the reason why Sonic IDW feels stale is that the pacing as well as characters aren't present. They're only focusing on Sonic, Amy, and Tails. I get the characters/huge cast are only available during specific points but it feels tiring especially because it could've been a lot better. Knuckles is part of the main four and yet he's now only available once Angel Island or the Master Emerald is destroyed? Belle is unable to be developed because she met Eggman and accepts her former dad is gone and that's it? And Shadow...is a lone wolf? I get that not every character would be available for speific arcs though it's getting tiring. Especially because they could've contributed. What about Blaze the Cat easily the best sonic character or other sonic characters that could've been revisited or restored? What about Earth and its inhabitants?
Another thing is that what about the rest of the new characters. They are the best Sonic characters and I'm glad we have new females to the cast such as Sheep Sally (forgot her name), Belle, Jewel, Whisper and Tangle. As well as new villains besides Eggman such as the magnificent Starline and the iconic imposter duo Surge and Kit. But I feel most of them are not able to develop as I hoped. Like I said I thought Belle would have an arc where she tries to help the Group. Maybe upgrade herself and learn how to protect her new renowed family. But she's now in the wayside after Issue 50.
Tangle and Whisper are the greatest girl besties! But besides their own spinoff together, they aren't given development as much separately. I don't mind that. Tangle doesn't need a tragic backstory and she's supposed to give comic relief. I just feel I wished she could've been given a backstory on why she is like this today as well as appearances. She was supposed to be the girl that kicked butt and now she isn't appearing in other issues? What even is the point of Tangle's case because in the latest arcs she's nor as present. But besides their friendship, Whisperer is kind of stuck now with being with Tangle and not given other development in regards to Mimic. As well as her not being explored as I thought.
Another thing is that I feel maybe Sega is restricting but also overlying on Ian Flynn. It's true Sega is not letting Ian Flynn or Evan Stanley may not be given freedom. Like Shadow acting like an edgelord which I'm sure is how Sega thinks Shadow is for fans. He's not and it's aggravating. But based on their podcast BUMBLEKAST, they're revealed to be given most of the writing. So let's adress Ian Flynn.
I feel Ian Flynn is overhated by the Sonic Fanbase yet overrated. Ever since he wrote for Sonic Archie before it was cancelled, his stories were great and I cannot deny I was exicted he would give writing in the IDW Comic. But after looking back at the comics, I feel SEGA should have new writers for this comic because it feels repetitive now. Because as much as I enjoy Ian's stories on Sonic, there's a point where maybe the writers just lost their core. That a running comic series is showing how flawed their writing is. Such as the case with how poorly Flynn juggles the huge cast, having arcs be nauseating to sit through like the current Mimic arc, or maybe pacing that feels eh.
As for Ian Flynn, I don't despise the guy. I do loved his stories on Archie, the Metal Virus, Imposter Syndrome. But I feel his interpretation of Sonic feels a bit too basic? We all have our interpretations of Sonic. But I feel the reason why people are annoyed by his take on Sonic is that he's too preachy or too clean. Like how people were angry at his decisions towards Issue 50 against Surge. To be fair, I did enjoy him during Issue 50 of IDW but he is never called out by most of the characters besides a few. Sonic is friendly but he's also introspective and knows he has to make decisions that aren't the best. That's why I love Sonic and The Black Knight for a deeper look into Sonic's character. Sonic was both smart yet he was challenged by his philosophy. He knew Merlina wouldn't agree with him and that's fine because he's Sonic. He gotta go fast not based on speed but his own morals. Now I don't think Ian depsies writing Sonic but I do hope this doesn't become the next Ken Penders situation. Because in my unpopular opinion, Ian does enjoy Sonic but he doesn't understand the essence of Sonic's character. Because to me IDW Sonic is made for children and kids and stuff. IDW Sonic feels like a Sonic who doesn't get to develop as much compared to other iterations of Sonic. He isn't the Sonic we're used to. He feels stale now.
@IAmBored347 Shadow's characterization is overall in line with his game characterization. Shadow just isn't the furry Steven Universe character or Archie transplant he is in fanon.
if sonic content isn't divisive and passion inducing, it straight up isn't sonic content. we used to debate in the old 4kids forums way back when too, its in the very dna of this franchise. thanks for great stuff man, lot of good points here
I'm gonna paraphrase my comment from the patreon audio here.
During my time reviewing this book for AIPT (where I also got free review copies to look at, though was also on stricter deadline to get them out the day of release), I eventually got to the point where I had to stop being the "sonic review guy", one of the things that got me ON that site in the first place, because I had just become so apathetic towards the stories. It really has just fell into a form of seasonal rot where the stories are bad per se, but they certainly are getting more samey and repetitive. I really love what Ian has done in the past, and as a writer and somebody who has to deal with some of the worst internet bullshit I've ever seen, he has my utmost respect. But I dunno, I think he doesn't do it like he used to. We're extremely far removed from the creative sandbox of OG archie and Reboot archie, but even stuff like Danny's scrapnik mini-series proves theres still mold breaking new ideas to explore. Maybe Ian's just fallen into the motions. Evan Stanley is also a great talent, but has a lot of those same issues Ian's recent writing has had too.
I forget which Bumblekast it was, but a lot of it set in for me when Ian talked about how shocked he was Danny could get approved with the scrapnik pitch. That to me really showed that he hasn't pushed for a swing that wild in some time. I can't blame the guy, he's busy and deals with harassment constantly, but I hope he manages to break out of the mold again and do something REALLY nuts again.
Imo Ian hasnt been the main writer of the story since the metal virus, Evan Stanley has basically completly took over from the chao races onwards
Ian every now and then returns to write some stories and specials like the fang special we recently had but at this point he mainly works on the games and other parts of the franchise like he apparently served as lore consultant for Sonic prime (even if they ignored most of what he recomended to them)
@carso1500 Flynn still suggested lousy lore for game Sonic seeing as how the Ancients being connected to Chaos was his idea.
@@galten7361 you mean one of the details that were the most praised by everyone?
@carso1500 Forcing a connection to Chaos is shoddy worldbuilding (especially when it retcons how the Chaos Emeralds were named after Chaos himself as noted in Adventure's guidebook). And the le praise was really down to "they mentioned something from older games regardless of being important to what's going on or not."
@@galten7361 how is it "shody worldbuilding" exactly? it connects to something from previous games in an organic manner and makes the situation with chaos more interesting (the idea that chaos is a mutated chao has been a thing for a while, frontiers only added the context that he just mutated back to their original form as an ancient, not just a random water creature)
It's also better than just adding another random alien species into the mix
Also as far as i remember the ancients never refer to the chaos emeralds as the chaos emeralds they just call them "the emeralds" period, so that bit can very well still be canon
I just don’t know how to feel about idw Sonic anymore, I still have fun reading them and it’s always great seeing characters just hang out, but at the same time it’s just meh? Like, I really can’t describe it lol
I wish that they had not killed Starline and allowed him to become better and maybe even surpass Eggman. Especially since it feels llike they have no idea what to do with Surge and Kit and I personally liked the idea of them being a team. If Surge, Kit and Starline were allowed to grow closer, become friends maybe even a family the entire reweal of how Starline reprogrammed them would be way more impactful. Especially if Starline actually cared for those two at that point.
Writing toxic relationships isn't easy and if they tried to pull it as you described, it'd left a massive sour taste in the mounth.
Although, if fans want it Starline can return as Ian said. This series is known to redact deaths.
@Yuudaddy "An OC is a better scientist than Eggman"
Lay off the fanfic. Starline hasn't even done anything notable in IDW without using Eggman's stuff (and that's ignoring how IDW made Eggman in Metal Virus issues act OOC to make Starline be disillusioned by him what with the lack of backup plans when using a nano zombie plague that could be used against their master).
Sounds about right. I dropped off shortly after the Chao race at the winter lodge and, despite several attempts to get caught up, found that the book just wasn't grabbing me.
I saw the warning signs from the very beginning, and no one listened to me. It's validating seeing everyone finally say the same things I've been saying for years.
I genuinely don't know what you were talking about when you mentioned Batman's No Killing Rule. There have been multiple times when his No Kill rule has been explained and people tend to like it when it is. That monologue from Under the (Red) Hood is considered one of the best Batman scenes ever.
My favourite time Batman's ethics were at the forefront was in Three Jokers, where Bruce stands by Joe Chill's side, the man who murdered his parents, as he passes away, remorseful for what he's done. It's a subtle scene, but it perfectly showcases that Batman doesn't do what he does because of hatred or "Vengeance", but by a need to protect others from the same pain he felt. He doesn't kill, because death is the reason his family was taken away from him.
@mcknightmareb4u494 Batman not killing is fine. Not even cops who aren't corrupt are expected to smoke every criminal they meet. It's only silly in Batman since his villains are ridiculously dangerous (to the point a man who's just a murderous clown can achieve a bodycount rivaling historical dictators) and Batman is a ultraviolet vigilante who operates military grade equipment but somehow hasn't just conquered Gotham and fired every cop.
Sonic is not a superhero and he doesn't care about where society goes or his responsibility to it. He doesn't actively refuse to kill his enemies he just never has to and doesn't care about stopping them beyond beyond what he needs to make them stop (which in most cases is just a beating).
I used to love that the comics were canon. On some level, I still do.
But like... What the hell is the point of making them canon if you're not going to let them reference each other?? Like IDW Sonic is a sequel to Forces, and we've never seen Infinite return, or any mention of the Avatar character. Sonic Frontiers came out almost two years ago, and the events of that story, as far as I know, have never been referenced in the comics. I'm not fully caught up on the series, as I only read the trades, but from what I've read and what I remember, there's been no mention of the Ancients or the Starfall Islands, even vaguely. Like i get not wanting to spoil the plot of the $60 game, but for Pete's sake, at least have them acknowledge it happened!
And this goes beyond the comics too! What's the point of Prime being canon if we're never going to go back to the Shatterverse?? Lord knows that's never getting a season 4, and you'd think that at least the comics would do something with that idea, but no it's probably getting ignored. And while Tangle and Sticks got a mention in Frontiers, it's unlikely we'll ever see them appear in the games. Not unless they bring them in for the next spin off game.
So again, I ask: What is the point? The idea behind having a shared universe is that they're supposed to connect. That's what's supposed to make the restrictions worth it. But if there's no connections and only restrictions, then why are they connected at all??
Pretty sure they confirmed that, as of right now, the IDW comics currently take place before Sonic Frontiers, which would explain why nothing regarding that game has been referenced yet.
Sonic frontiers mentions idw characters in little moments where Sonic talks
@@FatalGod404 I mentioned that, but I don't think it's really enough. I mean sure, it's fine for now, and it's really all I imagine they'll do for the main series, but if the next Sonic Racing game, or Olympics game if they still want to make those, comes out and we don't get any of the IDW characters in the cast, it's going to make me question what the point of making them canon is.
I mean, for crying out loud, Sticks was in the one on Wii U. And she wasn't even canon to the series until Frontiers mentioned her offhand at the end.
@@faraanzafar6200 I figured as much but that's still kinda dumb to me. Frontiers has been out for a year and a half, Final Horizon has been out for like... six months at this point, and the comics are still pretending like it doesn't exist. Not to mention we also have Superstars and Dream Team, which aren't big releases by any means, but neither was Team Sonic Racing, and that got a one-shot before it even came out.
I can understand not wanting to spoil Frontiers, since that plot is trying to be a mystery, but with everything else, it's weird we haven't gotten anything out of them. Unless the Fang mini-series counts as something for Superstars? I haven't read it yet, since I'm waiting for the trade.
I just have to wonder when they're going to start including stuff from the newer games. Like are they going to wait until the next mainline entry to start addressing Frontiers, and the series will be in a perpetual game of catch up, or are they never going to address it at all?? And have the comics be stuck in this weird middle ground? Because you'd think a year and half would be enough time to start at least vaguely referencing the game's events.
Either way it's just... weird. And again makes me ask what the point of them being connected is if they never actually connect.
@@SpiderGoblin2012 I think Ian said that Sage being in the comics would be the indicator they're now past Frontiers, meaning we'll finally get some references to that game.
Think what you will of the Archie comics but you definitely have to admit that the world and characters in that series felt fleshed out to their fullest potential
Personally me I'd say its been stale since the Zombot arc.
Here is ultimately my issue with IDW Sonic, it really DOESN'T feel like the games. Its too small, too slow and too low key most of the time. I don't get the same feeling from it that I do looking at games like SA1, 2 Heroes, 06, Unleashed or Colors. No grand globe trotting adventures, just small scale confrontations. The Neo Metal section probably was the only time I ever got that kind of feeling, but even then only barely. And disregarding the games, I can't even like it when the predecessor was Archie, with its fully fleshed out world with a wide cast of heroes and villains or even just the reboot which was able to create what felt like a fleshed out world using Unleashed as a crutch while still introducing its own concepts like Meropis.
@CometX-ing It's not trying to be the games it's trying to be a cross between reboot Archie and superheroes and Steven Universe and post-Naruto shonen battle manga.
I think comparing IDW and Archie makes perfect sense! They are both Sonic comics, they are both official Sonic comics, and they have a lot of the same writers. It makes perfect sense to compare them! Same goes with Sonic the Comic.
I hate how IDW portrayed Shadow as an edgelord. Erasing his character development from SA2 to Sonic 06.
@johnhayden4226 IDW Shadow is not overall different from his game version. He was always an "edgelord."
I feel a lot of the problem with IDW is the inconsistent pacing of releases. I mean, months between main issues is kinda killing the books.
I doubt that there will ever be another Sonic series like the crazy world of Mobius.
Penders clearly went nuts but he had something going there with Flynn able to polish it off.
Please go over Ghost in the Future. I would watch the heck out of that video.
I genuinely believe IDW Sonic Comics were doomed from the start and the moment I heard it had to follow the aftermath of the story of Sonic Forces, I lost all interest. If we want compelling amazing sonic comics then look to the fanmade works only.
IDW has a saturday morning imprint, a SatAM revival is a possibility still, if not an Archie revival.
Sega is never going to touch either of those ever again, ESPECIALLY Archie
I just want a SATAM reboot in the same vein as Ducktales 2017 as a canon story set in the classic era. I also want the characters to have classic designs at least reminiscent of the designs they had in the post reboot of Archie. Make Naugus and Eggman the main villains and have fun! I’d pay so much to get this.
Unfortunately, SEGA would never let it happen.
Also I don't think it would be the same without Hurst. Letting anybody else on it would probably result in them going "We need to add Amy and Metal Sonic and Nack and-!" and it would very rapidly stop being SatAM and start being Archie 2.
@@ToaArcan What I’m proposing isn’t necessarily a SATAM season 2, I don’t feel like that show should continue without Hurst, at least not officially I’ll probably check out Team Sea3on, but a wholly new show that takes elements and characters from Satam and creates a new story with them. Yes probably something that meshes more closely with the games canon, but would that be so horrible.
The Freedom Fighters were a huge part of Sonic’s history for so long and the idea of leaving them behind forever leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and you honestly wouldn’t have to change them much from the Post Reboot to have them be canon again.
Although I’m fully aware this is entirely a pipe dream of mine and will has a very low likely hood of happening, so I don’t think you have to worry about Archie 2.
@DmanDmythDlegend fans have already been screaming that to Sega for years, but they still have their window shut down tight.
Even when Archie Reboot was inevitable Sega of Japan waited for Freedom Fighters to be gone, but Archie didn't let them because they were "fathered" into these comics.
Honestly what I don't like about IDW Sonic is the lack of world building and how they characterize Sonic.
This is a common misconception Sonic is not a hero. He is heroic but not a hero, he doesn't do what he does because he's Noble or swore an oath to protect the world, he does it because he feels like it.
Also Sonic doesn't care about redeeming people, hell he doesn't even care why their doing what their doing. When he met Shadow for the first time, sonic never once asked Shadow why he's helping Eggman.
The reason why he lets Eggman live is not because he has a no-kill rule, he lets him live because he likes the chase and challenge Eggman gives him.
Sonic and the black knight perfectly encapsulates who sonic is as a character.
So he’s kind of like one half monkey d luffy, one half bugs bunny
BS, Sonic absolutely cared about making sure Chaos, Merlina and Void are in a better place after beating them than they were before instead of just sealing/killing them, even though he never (really) crossed paths with these characters again. Also, he had no reason to care why tf Shadow worked with Eggman in SA2. He doesn't know the guy, Shadow could just be some double Eggman hired to frame him for all he cares. Implying that Sonic not sitting Shadow down for a therapy session the second he got in his way for the first time *somehow* proves that Sonic doesn't care about redeeming his enemies is such a bizarre take, I don't even know what to say to that.
IDW Sonic literally stated his philosophy in The Surge chapter who cares
@@rainpooper7088 no that's bs. The only reason why sonic wanted to help chaos was because he knew that chaos would escape again and be even worst than before, if tikal had a sure fire way to seal chaos with no possible way to escape, sonic would have been more than fine with sealing chaos. As for Merlina, sonic was friends with her, so he cared, if he wasn't friends with her then he wouldn't have cared at all. As for void, I have no idea who that is. But let's say he did care about redeeming her, one incident doesn't mean your right.
Did sonic try and redeem the deadly six? Did he try to redeem Mephilis, did he try to redeem E-102 gamma, did he try to redeem dark Gaia, did he try to redeem Neo Metal Sonic in sonic heroes.
No. He didn't. Because he doesn't care about redeeming his villains/enemies, and he never has because it's not his responsibility or job to. Sonic does whatever he wants if he feels like doing it. How you do not understand this is crazy.
@@markjack9772 the reason why I and many other people care is because sonic team made idw canon, if it wasn't no one would care.
The philosophy of idw sonic contradicts game Sonics. You can't tell me that idw sonic is the same person as the sonic from sonic and the black knight & sa1 and sa2
No one really had a problem with or cared how archie sonic was portrayed, some even liked it because they knew it was a different sonic and it wasn't canon.
Kids nowdays aren't reading american comics, they are reading manga and watching anime on-line. This is why I think this hyper americanized brand of Sonic we have since 3010 is a mistake and creates more problems than solve them.
Why Sonic never had a proper manga with a serious storyline is beyond me. Remove the colorsand enlarger the book to fit more chapters per issue, reeuce the cost. Make the comixs more in line with japanese manga.
And it is about time Sonic get another shot at a proper anime, not that Sonic Prime.
Sonic X?
@daryltor7608
Sonic X was mostly silly self-aware hijinx (the Japanese dub actually has MORE self-aware jokes than the 4Kids dub) aside from the occasional game adaptation up until the Metarex Saga. The manga/comics based on it were even more extreme in that regard, they had things like Shadow dressing up as Vanilla to hide and Knuckles hitting on him because he's too dumb to see through the disguise. Though I disagree with their assessment precisely *because* of how Sonic X turned out when Japan was left to their own premises with Sonic, that canon is obviously nowhere near what OP is asking for.
@@rainpooper7088 Oh yeah, I would genuinely like another Sonic anime but what exactly would you do? Adapt, expand, create new stories? A mix of Archie and IDW characters
The answer is because of Sega and that's it Sega want Sonic to be Mario but no Sonic fan want Sonic To be Mario
@CanaldoZenny Leave it to Studio Trigger.
Not having grown up with Archie but catching up on it- for as wacky, terrible, weird and/or insane the pre-reboot run could be, watching all of this garbled mess be turned into some of the most fun stories characters and places after Ian took over was one of the most gratifying things I've ever experienced. Mobius feels like such a rich, colorful world that exists even beyond Sonic and it's a shame IDW can't seem to explore the world in a similar way.
I by no means hate the IDW run though. I've had and still have a lot of fun with it and the art is gorgeous and definitely more consistent. There's good stuff in there. But I also fully agree that the writers and artists could have more freedom with the franchise. Sure, it increases the risk of one writer messing up or doing weird shit. But sometimes I can't help find that risk worth it if it means more interesting stories and character interactions in the long run
Edit cuz I got to the different versions of Spiderman stuff: yeah ima be real with you chief. One of the most compelling things about Archie Sonic to me was when they once or twice dabbled into the trauma he got from unintentionally erasing his kids from existance and then subsequently being anxious when he eventually has another different pair in the Mobius 25/30 years later saga. Like I'm sorry but I eat this shit up it's so intruiging to me
Edit 2: I don't have much interest in TMNT but holy fuck that comic run with the continuuty crossovers and re-releases sounds sick WHAT
I was very content with your long form speed Reading, I find your content very enjoyable in all the little extra details you throw in It's just part of the charm when you talk about extra stuff
A couple of years ago I got my friends (none of them sonic fans) to watch the Adrenaline Dubs versions of the IDW comics with me (which btw are fucking amazing, check them out) and they really loved them. Despite me having to pause and explain shit and them not knowing who these characters are, they still felt horrible when Tangle got infected, when Cream lost her mother, etc and felt extremely hyped and happy when Sonic and Silver turned super, when Metal turned Neo and the rest defeated him, etc. They genuinely loved these characters and stories.
I hold these comics near and dear to my heart, and I've been reading them for years now, but it is kinda sad how I had to tell my friends they didn't really need to read the rest of the comics after the metal virus as the comics just haven't reached any of the peaks they used to.
I feel that making the IDW canon to the games plus the restrictions Sega placed for the way things are written is kind of why the IDW comics are getting stale.
Like don't get me wrong! I do love what Ian and the folks who do the IDW Comics have managed to achieve (I especially love some of the new characters featured). However I feel that they're confined in what they can and can't do.
Can I blame Sega entirely for some of the reasons? Not really considering what went down with Archie (if you know, you know). But I can blame them for saying the whole "Everything is Canon" thing as when you say "Everything is Canon", you've basically opened up a whole can of worms.
Well that was a quick re edit
lmao
Nick, buddy. I am 110% with you in this rant, and I urge you to continue to show this passion as I encourage all fans because that's the only real way to be heard these days. (that and your wallet) Creativity should not be stifled just because the big wigs at SEGA forgot what it means to have such a gift, mandates be damned.
I always thought it was a bad idea to merge comics in with the game lore anyways because one would ultimately limit or dilute the other.
However, I get the feeling Sonic Team, SEGA, and their Yakuza overlords are gonna keep sticking to their guns on these dreadful restrictions for the blue blur. (I mostly blame Izuka. -_-) So in the chilling words of a once great man known as Harvey Dent - "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
Idk. I guess most companies just like being villains now. Excelsior, true believers, and comicbook readers! God bless!! ✊🏾😖💯
I feel like the delay is affecting sales big time. We were meant to have this a month after the previous comic and when it's about to happen, IDW decided to delay it.
I don't mind delaying but come on! doing something like this would not only waste everyone's time, but makes us have to wait for so long. if sales is an issue, I understand, but you could do two comics back to back, one for beginning of the month and another for half a month, with both modern and classic.
24:38 - 24:46 While Kevin and Peter disagreed on Venus,there relationship was already bad at the time,that's why they broke there friendship (though they are ok with each other now,at least I think so)
Also I agree that Tmnt crossovers are great (He talks about the frist part one out of 4 comics of the Saturday morning adventures cross over comic special) but this wasn't really a cross over at all. Spoilers:
They where fake made by Creepy Ed,I get why but it was lame ( though it could become real)
I keep hearing this about other franchises they need to attract their audience back after a long hiatus and keep them hooked and there all falling apart if this keeps up there will be no more fan bases left 😔
I've been very optimistic about the state of the franchise for a while, but yeah. I've been noticing things dragging with the comic and 'other' things recently, but couldn't really put a finger on it. Saying that the main comic arcs and specials feel like the Annuals made it all click for me finally.
I like downtime in comics as much as the other guy, but using Dragon Ball and other Shonen manga to compare kind of highlights the issue with it. Manga comes out weekly (at least prior to DBS). The reader doesn't have to wait that long to see the action continue (at the horrid cost of the artist destroying their health to do it that fast of course) but with comics monthly waiting and several issues of downtime is... Not ideal. At least while you're waiting for new issues. Once the downtime has passed, it tends to work just fine when rereading everything all together. I find it kind of ironic that comics tend to speed through fights for similar reasons while Manga takes its time with it.
I hope SEGA can get their ass in gear and get some cool stories going again (the newest issue looks like a really promising start, I've not been this excited since Impostor Syndrome and #50 personally).
This video puts a lot of my personal thoughts and frustrations into more concrete words than I could ever manage, and I thank you for that. I really hope the comics can reach another high again, but no matter what, much like you, I'm gonna stick with these comics until the day they end. IDW was my entry point, and while see the direction it's gone down recently bummed me out a bit, I still hold the minds behind it and the series itself high in my heart.
I know whose been an after thought for comics for almost to two decades and that is....Mega Man.
Classic and X series Mega Man I've meant to say.
I think everyone can agree that multiverse plotlines need to be stepped into to open up the plot. Even something as small as boom or the sol dimension. The stakes can go higher if it’s not the main continuity on the line
It’s this stuff that makes me so happy for fan content. The Archie Sonic Online series does well to contribute the vibes and stakes of the original Sonic comics by Archie before the reboot.
I feel like there's no problem with characters having little unconnected adventures... But Archie had 2 stories per comic, if you didn't like one of them, there was another.But still, it doesn't matter if they are stories without much weight, but they should all connect to a final arc and establish something of this world
If IDW ever wanted to become an animated series, the metal virus should be the last or penultimate story
The Metal Virus was probably not the best way to start IDW if it was it's own continuity, but it isn't. Issue 1 takes place only about 2 or 3 weeks after the events of Forces. In every way, it's a sequel to that game, so Eggman getting pissed off about his losing the planet to Sonic again does make sense and that he would immediately perform an encore with the Metal Virus. I can guarantee that if issues 1 - 15 were a small game and then the next year, issues 16 - 32 were the big main game for an anniversary instead of Frontiers, or if it was just a game in general, everyone would have been way happier about it. It's the same story just in a different form of media, so I really don't see what's so bad about it.
@Ollie.H-2301 "Eggman would make a world filling nano zombie plague but not make any backup plans even though Forces showed him making backup plans in the plot"
@@galten7361 suggest a backup
@Ollie.H-2301 Eggman knowingly making a nano zombie plague that would wipe-out the world is not in-character and is something his Archie version (who would delete himself alongside the rest of the universe just to beat Sonic) would do. Eggman in the actual game canon thinks he can make the world more beautiful and protect it if he can mechanize it (as said by Ohshima) and declared war on the Black Arms since they were smashing up the world. Eggman in the games only unleashes forces like Chaos when he's sure he can control them and never once did anything like the Metal Virus (knowingly make something that will kill off the world he's trying to rule).
Besides all that, Eggman had no actual backup plans in the Metal Virus issues in case it was turned on him or went out of his control (and no, "run away to wherever" is not one and is OOC since Eggman again thinks he can upgrade the world he isn't trying to kill everyone in it). In Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, and Forces we see Eggman have contingency plans (Egg Carrier 2, all the backups in Forces) or quickly think up something to keep himself in the game (Eggman tricking Sonic in Unleashed). IDW having Eggman not only make something that would kill off the world he's trying to rule is OOC enough, but making him do so without any backups even when he should know well the danger from what he made shows Flynn and Co. don't know how to handle him.
@@galten7361 His whole thing is to turn animals into robots, he's been doing that since Sonic 1, it didn't come from Sonic SATAM or the comics. The Metal Virus is a more effective way of doing that. He says it's tedious work constructing badniks and rounding up animals to power them, and that the Metal Virus is more efficient. You said Eggman wants to protect the planet? Sonic CD. Look what he does there, I know it's Little Planet and not Mobius but still. Or what about the ARK? He demands the President surrender to the Eggman Empire or "your country will cease to be." He also split apart the entire planet to unleash a god to kill Sonic. He has no regard for the planet's safety. He created the Metal Virus as a "f*** you" to the world for kicking his ass in the war. He tested the Virus before unleashing it and found that they were responsive to his commands and once informed that they were not responding anymore, he started thinking of ways to re-control them. One of them actually worked but Sonic showed up and ruined everything. If he didn't, Eggman would have successfully regained control of the Zombots. The only proper "backup" he had in Forces was the second power supply hidden in Metropolis in case the Death Egg gets destroyed. Eggman never has effective backup ideas, it's usually just a different robot. Also, he doesn't realise that there's still another Phantom Ruby Prototype remaining in Forces.
"Impossible! I thought all the prototypes were destroyed!"
"A costly oversight, Doctor. This is why I always check and double-check as any good scientist would."
When does Eggman ever have backups. In SA1, Perfect Chaos floods Station Square and Eggman retaliates with something he already has. He didn't build the Egg Carrier specifically for Chaos if he got out of control, it was just there and he used it ineffectively. Sonic Heroes, he isn't even the villain. Sonic '06, he has no plan other than send Sonic away, steal the flames from the princess. Unleashed, he summons Dark Gaia and then it falls apart immediately, spreading globally. Once it's back at full power, it kicks Eggman away. He had no back up in Generations or Colours. He had a surprise robot in Lost World but I don't know how much "backup" that is and then I already discussed Forces. Starline was right. Eggman never shows any foresight and he doesn't plan for the long-term.
He creates the Metal Virus not to destroy the world but to control it. All your points are moot, good day to you.
Couldn’t have said this stuff better myself. As someone who loves reading and who has been a fan of the Sonic series since I was around 5, of course I’m gonna continue picking up the latest issues of the IDW Sonic comics, to show my support for the writers and all that they do. Don’t get me wrong, I still enjoy the cute one-off stories and the misadventures we’ve gotten recently, but I agree that they feel like the type of stuff you’d find in the annuals, very stale and aimless for issues that are part of the main series. I haven’t been all that hooked by this series in a while as a result. It definitely seems that the creative team working on these comics are unable to stretch their creative muscles as much as they could, due to SEGA’s restrictions on how Sonic and others are written. I remember being disappointed to find out that the IDW series was canon to the games, because I wanted its characters and story arcs to be something that were exclusive to the comics, giving readers like me the incentive to invest in them. Now the comics are just supplementing the games, and the comics feel emptier than they used to be. I can only hope that SEGA loosens its grip on Sonic’s writing, allowing the IDW team the creative freedom to explore more about Sonic’s world, the characters, and future story arcs. It’d even be cool to see a crossover with the Archie gang, as unlikely as that would be 😅.
Some things I’d love to see in this series in the future:
- A story arc set in Silver’s time, exploring what the future is like now that it’s been saved, introducing new characters from the future, as well as foes completely separate from Eggman!
- An arc exploring Blaze’s dimension in more detail (pretty similar to the Silver idea)
- An arc where Belle gets to meet the Scrapniks and help them re-enter society through the restoration (since she talked about saving all the robots which Eggman abandons). They could become recurring characters in the series, helping out with restoration efforts or working alongside the main cast to save people in end-of-the-world-stakes arcs!
- Like with Archie, it would be cool to see some of these characters having relatives and families, thought that would be highly unlikely.
- LET SONIC CRY PLEASE SEGA 🙏 😭 THE REPRESENTATION OF A HERO BEING ABLE TO EXPRESS THEIR EMOTIONS FULLY AND NOT HAVE TO CONSTANTLY KEEP UP THE REPUTATION OF A FEARLESS, INVINCIBLE SUPERHUMAN IS INCREDIBLY HEALTHY AND MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU THINK
- This video also made me think, I agree on wanting to see arcs in the future which focus on characters that are usually pushed to the sidelines, giving them a chance to really shine in the spotlight, as well as putting Sonic in situations where speed isn’t an option, or where he can show a little vulnerability and be saved by others
- in general, it’d be really great to see these characters being written like they used to be: allowing characters to have their own internal conflicts as well as conflicts with others, as well as having character development (mainly focusing on the official mascots here, I think there’s been more freedom to do this sort of thing with the characters introduced in IDW specifically). I remember watching a dub of the House of Cards arc in the Archie comics, and I was intrigued by the conflict shown between Sonic and Tails in that story! While I wasn’t interested in the whole romance element underpinning their fight, the discord between these characters felt human and realistic and that’s what I loved about it, and I would love to see this type of interaction again in Sonic comics.
Great video again as always. It was actually your video on the Metal Virus saga that got me into the comics - I didn’t know they even existed before that!
@Em-ig1ri Sonic not crying has been in canon since the Genesis Era since he's supposed to the ideal boy (so he doesn't care what others think he should do and doesn't compromise and doesn't cry since he won't break). And House of Cards required Archie's interpretation of Sonic to be a thing not the game version (game Sonic would never fight to keep a monarchy of all societies around especially one that locks up protestors).
I'm so excited for you to go over the Archie Sonic comic. I didn't read the whole series, (jumped in a little less than halfway through, partly due to Lowarts' suggestion) but I got around to reading it a couple months ago. I absolutely loved it and had such a hole in my heart when I got to the unceremonious end. I'm really looking forward to seeing your thoughts on it
Honestly while I feel like much of the complaints about IDW are exaggerated (mainly from overly negative fans and anti Sonic weirdos) you did make some good points here, and I appreciate you not acting like a lull in the action is the end of the world.
It gets extremely distressing whenever Sonic discourse happens now, because so many people just butt in to tell you that the thing you were enjoying is bad actually
21:37 Honestly they should bring Starline back. And I want them to bring Infinite back with him and make them a duo/team. They have similar enough motivations for this to work, and bringing Infinite back would finally give that character a chance to be characterized better than he was in Forces.
@DmanDmythDlegend Infinite and Starline are not similar beyond both being minions of Eggman. Infinite wished to be the king of the post-apocalypse and was overall Sonic's version of a spree killer or spearhead for massacres. Starline was a fanboy who worshipped Eggman and becomes disillusioned with him so he'll show he does being a supervillain better to make Eggman do what he says he should as his peer. And Infinite is fine by Sonic villain standards in isolation, he's frankly more real than fanfic ideas or being another Shadow.
@@galten7361 I totally get your point, and it’s completely valid, but I was just thinking that they were 2 villains who were supposedly dead and thought they could both come back with Starline as the brains of the group and Infinite as the muscle.
Also I just thought they’d have a fun dynamic, don’t act like there’s NO common ground. Both were former Eggman henchmen who were betrayed and used by him and would probably want revenge and they both despise Sonic. They also both powered themselves with strange gemstones, the Phantom Ruby and the Warp Topaz. They also have some clear self-worth issues they maybe able to relate to on another on. I’m not saying they have to be friends, just that they may have reason to work together.
Status Quo, the bane of any long-running franchise
Hey would you do the Idw TMNT comics since there are get re-established?
Honestly I feel the opposite, the Eggman City made me feel like things were getting stale.
Whisper and Tangle's characters hadn't advanced since their mini arc and didn't really afterwards, still with The Restoration, still after Forces, and I felt like we'd already done this "attack Eggman's base" thing 2 times before that one. I like Lanolin and the new Diamond Cutters but overall the story didn't really do anything.
But after that, with all those small character based stories, and the build-up to the changes in the Restoration, really great use of Lanolin's "baddest bitch" personality to create proper tension, and Mimic, Surge, Kit and Clutch teaming up to possibly destroy the Restoration from within, I thought that stuff has been way more enjoyable than most of the other recent stuff in the main series.
@Frederik-DK The Restoration/Neo Diamonds should have just been a separate faction who only happen to face the same threats. Not an organization that has Sonic on their beck and call. It makes Sonic act too much like a superhero or rebel commander hero.
I would've loved to see how the metal virus affected the humans of the Sonic world, and it's a shame we dont even see G.U.N yet. If ya gotta rename them to HUG go ahead but bring them back.
Well, Ian Flynn has talked about his hopes of IDW gaining the rights to both of the Archie continuities.
I think sega should have just made a deal with a japanese manga company that way they can keep closer eye on the writers and also let them have more freedom as they are closer to hand and any screw up's can be found before publishing.
The issue with that is that Sonic just isnt popular in Japan, it never has
Just as an example back when Sonic X season 3 didnt even air in Japan until years later, the only reason why Sonic X had a third season was because of how popular it was in the US because it flopped in Japan
@neko791 Pariah suggested to just make Sonic stop pretending to have an actual timeline.
As a salamander biologist, this issue has my seal of approval
Do you also think that the chaos emeralds also warped the design of the world? They could be why the world has a bunch of loops and corkscrews all over the place.
That was always my theory, the world mutated and the critters on it naturally adapted to the environment. There are rings and loop de loops and now there are hedgehogs who naturally navigate such a weird world
@@GameApologistthat's just the Archie explanation for mobians existing.
@GameApologist Ohshima called Sonic a fairy of a hedgehog and the backstory in the JP lore bible has Sonic a book character written by Mary Garner who possibly manifested in the real world.
@@galten7361 I hate that backstory it sucks
it's obvious the idw doesn't care about the sonic comics anymore and they aren't even trying and they are wanting the comics to fail so they can get out of the contract with sega, also, idw isn't doing well financially and it's most likely only a matter of time before idw goes out of business
I was here when the video still had that sponsorship (it was apparently a massive scam lol)
Thanks for removing Betterhelp, I watched the original upload all the way through otherwise. Great video, and thank you as always, for your content. Otherwise, I wouldn't ever learn about these comics, I cant get them myself.
My main problems with IDW is sega. The way they limit the writers with world building and direct the game characters just feels like they don’t have a solid direction.
The issue that came out yesterday though was amazing! Besides lanolin being short-sighted again I’m really excited for the rest of the arc.