The Long Awaited Sorcery Speed Counterspell MTGGoldfish Podcast
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- The crew talks Murders at Karlov Manor, new Secret Lairs, Wizards shockingly lacking quality control and answers #MTGFishmail!
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#MTG #magicthegathering #mtggoldfish
Intro Music: "8 Bit Adventure" By HeatleyBros
• "8 Bit Adventure!" Que...
Outro Music: "8 Bit Ending" By HeatleyBros
• "8 Bit Ending!" Nostal...
0:00 intro
3:52 secret lairs
15:47 CGB’s “retirement”
27:37 Is MKM a flop?
41:34 time to retire foils?
53:22 content creators we like
56:42 fishmail
1:02:25 outro - Hry
“We’re printing a finite number to ensure quality”
> Immediately fucks up
Even without a fuck up this argument has no weight. Its not like printing equipment deteriorates only when you print one type of Secret Lair, and miraculously resets on another. They can ensure it, but the CEO bonuses could be at harm to drop 0,5% each and THAT is not acceptable.
Crim's "modern horror" joke was too good 🤣
Have sex with him then
It's thee last set of the year right? I'm hypee for the animal set
17:05 Looks like the facecam footage retired for a moment there too
They've become covert, and the screen has become blue
If you use a black light you can see them!
Ironically, they messed up on one of the only counterspells that could still function if you just made a sorcery.
Which makes me 🤔… did they employ some sort of AI to create his mess of a card… or was it just human error? That said, it’s a funny meme of a card. If this was printed right now… just imagine the price of this card.
Would be a nice card idea. Give it some upside and you need to use the madness for it to be usefull. Maybe drawing cards, creating a blood tokens, which works in tandem with madness strategy.
You know something that would fix the high variance of best of one and low diversity would be to have a way to modify your deck to attack specific matchups by say, having some cards you could switch that are outside your deck, coupledbwith instead of only playing one round you would do 3 and who ever takes 2 win. Mmmh I wonder if that's a thing?
Arena is so bad because of the clocks
@@TheBlitzgundam That sounds dumb and desperate
I think a big issue with returns is that we've been doing it so much lately. Like March of the Machines, Modern Horizons 2, this kinda stuff already feels like a quick visit to all of the planes people love and care about. Going back to Ravnica yet again, it feels like we just left it tbh.
Yeah. I also feel like only having one set doesn't let us give each world very much depth. All the more recent dominaria sets are just a mishmash of the various cultures whereas a lot of the previous times we have been there focused on a specific continent and told a more constrained story that have us a glimpse of only a few cultures. Similarly, match of the machines only got to do a couple cards per plane and distilled it even more. That's in addition to a lot of the new planes that don't have pre existing lore to do a lot of the heavy lifting where world building is concerned.
I totally agree with your point about how the number of sets that visit several planes makes dedicated returns a bit less special as well.
One of the crime families from New Capenna using the Omenpaths to set up a foothold on Ravnica, start doing nefarious deeds, and eventually killing guild leaders sounds like a much better plot than what we got in MKM
yes.
crim’s idea for a courtroom drama set sounds better every time I think about it
Ace!
Me: WotC can’t possibly make anymore mistakes.
WotC: hold my beer
Why would you even think that XD Like even WotC would write you a letter 'please stop jinxing us'.
I definitely like the idea of adding emblems to the game when people are taken out. You could test a bunch of these to find a good set of random ones to choose from, so that decks can't be designed around them too much, but they could also discourage some things that tend to lengthen games, like "players can't gain life and damage can't be prevented".
Set boosters in Australia were severely overpriced vs draft boosters. Play boosters contents are fine in concept but the price increase is going to have a catastrophic effect on people wanting to draft when the price is over 50% higher.
Hey mate, also an aussie. How much were set boosters boxes for you? And how much is a play booster box now? Sets were that different but you did get less product which some liked as it was less chaff. It was only a $45 increase to change from draft box to play box here. No worse than the USA pricing
Same in NZ
Pre release at 65nzd is steep
@@dane_anubis6213 a draft previously was $20 or $25 depending on the store and prize support, this is going up to $35. I never really bought boxes anytime recently but I think the prices were like $180 vs $250-$270 and that is for 36 packs vs 30.
@mHysteresis ouch. Ours was AUS$50 but the store did say the next one would have to be 55
On the subject of card stock, several years ago the game Dominion moved from being printed in Germany to using the Hasbro printers in the US and people immediately complained that the cards were too flimsy. Allegedly there was a problem with the first batch having the card stock rotated 90 degrees so the grain of fibres went the wrong way, but even after they fixed that the newer cards don’t seem to be exactly the same as the old ones.
Richard is the first person that feels how I do about this set. I thought it was a dud, but everyone keeps praising it.
The dogged detective tho
@@Suavek69 should have been a Scooby Doo Secret Lair instead. Shaggy, Mystery Machine?
MKM was absolutely terrible. The mechanics are too convoluted. The set is built for draft and commander and not for constructed. Clues to me are the SINGLE WORST ARTIFACT MECHANIC in all of Magic, simply because they dont really DO ANYTHING. oh boy, theyre bad rate draw cards. The detectives dont really use them for anything and theres not really any worthwhile artifact sac element to make them worthwhile. Theyre just bad artifacts. Its why Treasures became the defacto "best artifact token ever" in all of Magic and why they were everywhere FOR YEARS. Helps you play cards. Can help creatures activate effects. Doesnt cost you anything to use. FEELS POWERFUL when you use it. Clue is just a bad mechanic and MKM showed how garbage it is when most of the cards dont even make use of it.
I have seen almost no one praise it
@@lordxmugen If it was built for limited they failed. It's a terrible limited set.
Perfect 1am bedtime Podcast in Germany thanks
Circular logic should've been sorcery speed so this checks out
The Foil video was such a good watch - I had to go ig through some of my foils after and definitely the etched foils have definitely survived better than normal foils. Def wouldn't mind all foil being etched instead of the normal pringles.
To Richard: If you wanna do a "All Mistakes" Deck, get a german version card of Ugin from Fate Reforged. His board wipe ability reads that you remove things with higher mana value than you removed from Ugin.
A lot of non-english cards have issues, its pretty crazy
Seth's early point about colour mattering died a long time ago I think, just look at the Necrotic Ooze SLD, or Scarab God. I know the B&W basics have also caused visibility issues at tables I've seen. I think it's a ship already sailed.
This is probably true, although it seems like its happening more and more often.
Players have been plagued by IN the Eye of Chaos for far too long! Finally a castable sorcery counterspell has arrived!
As someone who played the prerelease disguise and cloak are very good in limited
@32:05 Yep! I literally thought until the last week that MKM was a non-standard supplementary set, judging by it's setting the whole Clue thing.
I still think the sweet spot with standard sets was the 2 block setting, it made me actually more interested in what was coming up.
I literally went through spoiler season not knowing who was murdered at Karlov Manner. I was even surprised that it was actually Teysa, since she has A LIVING CARD IN THE SET.
I was wondering why I was getting Neck Deep vibes from those cards. Nice shout Crim.
Hey guys, love the content, keep being awesome 😁
I think a fair mechanic to speed up games could be an emblem that players vote yes or no for before the game begins. The emblem could be something like "This emblem is put into play on the end step off the turn in which the first player is eliminated from the game. At the beginning of each players end step, if that player dealt no damage this turn, this emblem deals 3 commander damage to that player"
Me working in an LGS we notice that play Boosters makes Drafting hard. We play with Pics. So in the end of youre Draft you put out all of the rares and foils that you picked, The first place of the Draft can pic the first card and so forth till the last one of the draft and then it gets back to the first. The Problem that we have with Play Boosters is no one can track the amount of Rares and Mythics that has been opend without counting all the pics they made. What was a upside for play for the pics is that you try to build the best draft deck and win the price rare that does nothing in the draft.
Since you have started to branch out in different kind of videos (like the paper commander clash or the seth vs phil video) I would really enjoy a progression series of Seth playing the deep cavern bat challenge.
Instead of having disguise and cloak, they could have just have morph and manifest with those exact names, and ERRATA the reminder text, just like they did with Companion, and include the ward 2. This would have, of course, altered the old morph cards, but not for the worse. You don't see morph cards in any format anyway.
In addition having new morph tokens depicting the creatures as something else as energy beings would have done a lot of good too.
Does anyone else think that morph and manifest could just as well have been erratered to have ward 2 instead of making a new mechanic for it? Would also make more of the hidden information side of those cards.
The Initiative is the best mechanic I've seen for game speed. Gets things going at first, and then as players are knocked out it's easier to hold onto, and that player gets a big advantage to close things out.
I really like innistrad but thats because i started there and i like coming back to places for story purposes, but seeing new places is fun too
Easy solution to speed up a EDH game is the first player to knock out another becomes the monarch, which itself assists in expediting a game.
I preordered the surveil lands and that’s probably all I’m getting from this set. Maybe one or two of the legends for commander. Shock reprint seems to be the biggest thing for standard! Especially for best of one haha
We definitely crossed a line so long ago with secret lairs
I run a mtg club at a middle school, and let me tell you that kids LOVE pack foils. They will keep the most useless cards in their decks just because they are shiny. When I bring a new pile of chaff in, kids race to start rummaging for the foils. Pack foils aren't for us, they are for people who describe their decks as "black" or "red" and play double faced cards unsleeved. People who still feel joy. ❤
Descend into avernus is a great example of a card that speeds up the game. Richard mentioned Fortnite and you could definitely imagine a rule like as soon as someone dies, on each players turn they gain e.g. a poison counter, or lose 2 life or something that forces them to act aggressively to continue to close out the game
On the foiling i agree with Richard 100%.
Make foils special again.Up the quallitie. Make them rare and desirable again. Go back to the old ways. Put 1 rare foil in a box, 3 uncommons and 10 commons orso.
Having no blocks makes it quicker for us to burn through planes.
There's also a missed opportunity with building up with revealing who killed who with MKM.
I couldn't agree with Richard more on the foils. Old border foils are the best. Etched for me is probably a close 2nd (because Etched have been the least likely to Pringle). But he's right they should stop sinking so much time and effort into so many foil treatments and focus on making the foils better across the board
A reverse monarch that deals damage would be so cool. Whatever player is holding it takes damage until they deal damage or maybe target another player with a spell or an effect
The two things people actually love about Ravnica are Shocklands and Multicolored cards. And this Ravnica delivered none. No wonder it's not as popular as previous visits
Regarding foils, I actually consider foils a net negative in my packs. Damaged cards drive me up the wall, and I avoid collector boosters for this reason. If I could buy a pack that was guaranteed to NEVER have a foil, I'd prefer it to all others.
Altering that secret layer drop background would be awesome
Glad to finally hear someone talking about the lack of excitement when opening an foil card anymore. Nowadays foils and alternate/full arts are worth just as much or less than the regular card. Am I the only one who missed the days where we freaked out because full art lands were returning in BFZ?
I know people like picking the art for their cards, but maybe make the regular version more affordable and then the premium part of magic can be blinging out your deck rather than simply getting the necessary cards
Collector Boosters killed foils for me. When you can buy a pack that's full of them they just aren't special.
Crim with the Drain shirt!!! Great crossover thrash band
Came here to mention this!
I'm more hyped for our cowboy set plus it's going to be the 100th set WotC has made for the game.
secret lair is the one place where they can do whatever they want, just keep readability in my booster pack
@legenvd is an awesome content creator, deck builder, and player. I swear he's also the luckiest player alive
Yeah, Legend is great.
In Response to the Fishmail:
Magic already solved the "Long Game" problem, but it was lost to the Before Times:
*Forsaken Wastes*
This was so effective durring its time, one of my FLGS used it as a round end timer! When the round had 10 mins. left, the TO would announce that an Uncounterable *Forsaken Wastes* was cast at each table.
Just make a rule that each defeated player crates a *Forsaken Wastes* token(with NO Controler, obvi.). Boom; Problem Solved.
The pre release at my lgs was 5 rounds and a ton of fun
Showing some love ❤
It’s not the return or not that matters; it’s the quality of the concept and the time away from it. If we returned once every 6 or so years, I’d be fine returning to banger Innistrad and Ravnica sets because they feel like home. But the last few returns have felt like cover bands that wanted to ‘alter’ the classic hits.
I'm kinda tempted to build an edh deck with the goal to put as many cards as possible face down in all kind of different ways. Morph, manifest, disguise, foretell and cards that exile other cards face down like Gonti. It would be horrific to play but kinda hilarious.
Regarding play boosters I think the value isn't there because they have had to bring the power down a notch to not break limited.
People are opening 12 rares in pre-release kits but no bombs...
I can't wait for a secret lair of my favourite artifact, burgeoning!
Descent to avernus just starts in play every game! Fast game guaranteed!
I played a prerelease for MKM on Sunday and it was a ton of fun! I DID happen to get Yarus pack 1 pick 1 into Yarus pack 2 pick 1, so it let me just money draft anything that wasnt a red/green disguise creature LOL, but regardless, the set mechanics are fun in limited.
I’ve been playing since 2000🎉. Tournament and competitive forever.
Idk what plane or set goes where. Good cards and synergies get me… no clue about who or what any pw is or stands for. Just here for the games. ❤❤
I would be so sad if foils are taken away, theyre still so pretty. I dont care if its the most bling thing, theyre still cool! Same with basic lands being full art, I'm excited that I can actually afford to have pretty gamepieces as opposed to them being super expensive
We used to speed up our games by having "exploding players" depending on the size of the pod, because we used to play 8-10 in ours, when you die you deal 5 damage to each player beside you, or 10 if it was 10, then 5 to the next person out
What if the game "sped up" mechanic was on a battle? Players would have to attack the battle in order to turn off the "sped up" limit. Maybe a battle could hand out a poison counter every turn. Maybe it gave everyone a negative cumulative upkeep trigger.
Wall of otters isn't the first time either haha. Remember Hazoret, the Pervert?
I like the idea of increasing damage every turn. Would make life gain a viable control strategy
Here's how to speed up Commander.
Ticking Timebomb
Legendary Artifact
5 cmc
During each player's upkeep ~ deals 4 - x damage where x is equal to the number of opponents in the game.
If Ticking Timebomb would be put into the graveyard from anywhere shuffle it back into it's owners library.
Yeah we need to work on it for games of Commander with more than 4 players, but this could be a start.
Returns to sets are only good when they change something significant on the return.
Kamigawa and Innistrad are big ones that had a pretty big shift in atmosphere and they are probably 2 of my favorite return sets.
Issue with Ravnica is that Everytime you go back it's just the same stuff again and again
I'm interacting with MKM the same way I do with any set - watching youtube and buying singles to play EDH :)
I mostly buy singles of cards I need, but I would be stoked if they went to Lorwyn again. That's my favorite set, but it seems the power creep has made a lot of those cards not as good any more.
You brought up video games like Fortnite, but I think it's worth looking at how boardgames handle "ending the game" as well.
And what you'll find there (or at least what I find) is that a relatively low percentage of games actually allow for a player to get eliminated. It's much more common that the game ends all at once, or maybe a round after a single player gets eliminated. It's not fun to get knocked out of a game and have to wait, but the tabletop space really expects you to wait for another game rather than going and jumping into another game while the previous is ongoing.
Not sure how you could implement this into a game of Magic though; its really not what the rules system is designed for.
My local shop had smallest launch in 2+ years. Singles are super cheap, very few new commanders, price hike sucks for people who barely afforded the draft boxes and most importantly post Xmas but before tax returns is a lull in retail economy as a whole.
The most popular format is standard BO1 and mono red has been on top for years now. Its not just a content creator problem, most players on arena are dealing with it.
the black and white cards remind me of the old gamma test cards
the problem with ravnica is that it doesn't feel like ravnica, especially now that there's 3 color cards and detectives all over the place. it feels like new capenna instead.
yes.
cool drain shirt!
Regards cards to speed up the game.
An emblem with...
Cummunative upkeep. Take 1 Dmg.
Then pass this onto the next player in the turn order... 🤔
The fix for mono red on Arena is to tie quest and rewards to performance and not just "vomit as many cards/games as possible". Until mono red is not the 100% most efficient way to game the Arena economy, nothing is going to change.
Richard you are exactly right, this set has really cool cards in it but honestly I don't feel like buying it because overall, the theme is just kinda lame...its much more worth it to pick up the few singles I want, and let the rest of the set fade behind what lays ahead... 32:54
Richard wants the yugioh ghost rare!!
In regards to the foils comment, it would be nice to just have most of the cards printed in Japan cause I find those foils, and even the non-foils, to just feel like they're made with better card stock. The difference between opening Ravnica Remastered with Japanese print, and other sets from US print, is night and day.
As someone who loves Ravnica and murder mysteries I thought MKM was going to be a slam dunk but I'm not gelling at all with the set.
Salubrious Snail is great.
I think MKM is an amazing set and I'm really hyped for it! I can just only afford to play sealed every so often and I went to the ravnica remastered prerelease, so I didn't have any spare money left for this. But I've already started throwing singles from it into my commander lists, just waiting for them to stabilize in price b4 i buy anything. It excites me in a way that ixalan and eldraine really didnt. I really hope I get to draft it later down the road.
WHATEVER, THE SOMETHING
(G)(G)(B) */*
WHATEVER THE SOMETHING'S power and toughness are equal to 12 divided by the number of players minus one. (4 players 4/4, 3 players 6/6, 2 players 12/12)
There's an old phrase that is very apt for this episode:
> What sorcery is this?
Catching this later, did the circular logic go to print as a sorcery?
If Crim were in fact the universe and/or the world, that would actually be pretty dope.
In regards to the MKM flop question, I think a lot of people just think the theme, or execution of the theme, is stupid. I know that sounds harsh, and most of the content creators I listen to are hyped about the flavor, but my playgroup considers this a secret un-set. And don’t get me wrong, my buddies and I like fun and aren’t serious players, but this strikes most of us as pretty geeky, and not in a cool LoTR way. Like, hats don’t make you a detective by default WOTC, and why the hell is there a giant mole? Listen, I’m sure some people will love it, and no shade to them, but I think if they had taken the theme more serious, kept out the scooby doo references, and looked to real noir for inspiration, the vibe would have landed better, at least with my crew.
Every set is an unofficial unset these days.
Having a turn timer would help finish games too, but some sort of acceleration would be really cool.
My playgroup hates timers for some reasons though :/
Speed up commander endings: make every deck play jinxed choker.
I don't buy boxes but I love to go to the prereleases. They being more expensive means that I can't go to all the ones I used to go, about one or one and a half less than I would normally.
I would like better cardboard for my cards. I like the cards from One Piece but they curl even when they are not foiled which I hated.
Imagine how great would MKM be if we had proper single player format on arena, actually getting to bottom of the story etc.!
And Richard is right, this has no hook, it is like if we would get Ixalan set but the main theme would not be tribes (dinos, pirates, merfolks etc.) but instead it would be "game show set" or something. People want to go back to Ravnica and see guilds and some fight over power not detectives, also Ravnica was always pretty tough plane and now it looks super meek (prbly so you can sell it as cluedo), if they wanted to do detectives they should go with more Wire feeling rather than The Great Mouse Detective
Richard you can easily do a wizard messed up deck here in Germany.. Just take the foils from woe or ixalan... they look so terrible the woe ones are like super dark and the ones from ixalan all have like printing lines over them and little of sprinkles where the colour over the foil layer is allready off the card at points, when you get them out of a booster.
Last week I have had the cut off pieces of the frame arround the cards in my booster..... So quality control for that feels non existend.
So after the you have all the Pringle issues they even don't look good anymore... So why bother to put them in in the end? 😩
Recently started playing One Piece and yes, the game is excellent and the card quality is amazing.
LRR!
Where's my LRR link in the closing!?
New Secret Lair drop is the new Future Future Sight lol. Dr Strange rips a hole in time to a dimension of unreadable cards.
I honestly only buy draft booster for the draft and play. I never buy set boosters unless I'm really interested in a set theme. The fact that the cheap draft booster is just gone now just removes the reason for me to buy any kind of booster at all, I just buy singles now.
I think a lot of the issues with BO1 standard on Arena is just the trash economy system. You're incentivized to build a competitive deck using as few wild cards as possible, and you're incentivized to play as many games as possible. Both are especially true for free/cheap to play which mostly end up playing standard.
Everything lines up perfectly where the fastest way to grind is to play mono red aggro, where you can spend a handful of wildcards at most and then either win or quit every game in 3 minutes or less. Even if it only won 40% of the time it's still the best deck for grinding.
It's boring to play against but it's even more boring to play with, but sometimes it's Saturday night and you need to get four more wins to get your stupid weekly points.
Content idea: Start a brand new Arena account and try to FTP for at most one hour a day and see how far you get. Use all the coupon codes, do the Jump In, etc.. You'll quickly realize why there's so much mono red aggro and mono black control in standard at the lower tiers and play pools.
We have a nice limited player base. Draft has now increased from $26aud to about $40aud ($27usd or so).
That’s not a small jump and I can see it pricing people out of the game.
For me, as a working adult, it’s not unbearable, but it hurts a bit financially. More than anything, at some point I’m sick of feeling like a cash cow…
Since that secret layer has a misprint, they're offering it for 5 dollars cheaper.
Planechase speeds up the game as people die very well. You can just take the planes out that slow it down
Technically, "Lunar Force" is a sorcery speed counter spell.
I honestly really like these cards with no color
Drain fuggin slaps