How to FIRE a Customer
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2020
- Firing a customer is never fun, but if you approach it correctly it's a sad situation that isn't going to hurt you in the long run!
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Always believe your "Gut Instinct". The occasions I felt bad inside and ignored it, generally turned out badly with customers and it invariably cost me money, thankfully these have been rare. There are many occasions where I followed my instincts and moved only to hear later, that others who were employed had terrible experiences. If it feels bad then move on, you are feeling a warning for a reason so follow it. Well done Richard.
Great talk, I have had a couple of customers that I have needed to pull back from, never easy. One was a large build (15k) deep. The project kept changing with ever visit which I foolishly took on board at first as I really wanted the job, but after a couple of times I said I need to be paid for the changes if we are to move forward and that’s when the wheels fell off. In the end I paid the customer his deposit of 5k back and pulled away from the job (lost time and products here as well). While it almost sent my business under it ended up being a turning point that made it semi successful, based on the fact that I never take on that kind of customer.
I came across this video just scrolling along and im glad i did. I plan to adventure into becoming a mobile mechanic( ive been a mechanic/tech for nearly 22 yrs but always worked for someone else) and this was something i was wondering about. I think your advice is spot on and professional. Thanks for that insight.
Doing home renovations, I had a customer try and dictate what she felt were fair labor rates and how much time it should take me to do some work. “Carpet costs this much, paint costs that much, your labor rate should be...”. I simply told her that while having her business would be appreciated, she was under no obligation to do so.
I had one (wealthy one) call me to come fix his mailbox. He then told me it should only cost $50. My response was ok, you want me to drive my $120000 rig with 20+ yrs experience to fix your mailbox for $50. Sorry I won't show up for less than 200. Never heard from him again, oh well
100% yes. Thanks for running through it all. It really helps all those out there thay are chasing down the same soet of path you've been and are walking on. I know it helps me. Keep up the awesome work!
A good friend of mine who is a GC had done that where he bids the job so high he thinks he won't get it and ends up getting it. He said he almost always regrets it even at the higher amount.
A friend of mine has a sign in his shop that says:
Time
Quality
Cost
"Pick two of the above"
Sometimes customers want the best of all three.
Great talk there ,its really important to have boundaries and getting valued for your time
I love the fact you give advice but also remember what it was like starting out
Keep up the spirit mate! You are doing a great job! Cheers to the team!
When I have had enough and fire a customer I have never felt bad about it.
You're awesome for showing people it's ok to highly value yourself. So many others in this country are actively trying to instill the opposite into working people in all kinds of workforces, blue and white collar jobs alike. Just the exploit them for money.
Thank you.
I can't imagine making a business call at 1am. Amazing.
Mate I agree with all your thoughts. I’ve been there myself. We treat customers the same way they treat us, but with out the abuse and language. I also have people complain about not answering the phone even after I’ve let them know how noisy my workshop is and another is the bad phone and internet service we have here. One customer phoned every two minutes for three hours. Keep going mate don’t let them knock you down. Love your vids and work.
This was a awesome video for you to do for everyone! Much appreciated bro! I personally just dealt with firing a client due to change orders and complete design changes after starting and buying all the materials for the project (Customer expecting me to not change the price). This isn't the first time they've done this to me but I made sure it was the last. They also want the job to be more complex but expect it to be cheaper. All this along with the daily "hows it coming?" update texts every damn day...........FIRED!!!!
Renders for a $300 job. Ugh. Some people have no clue. And yeah, I think I like your dad already! LOL
Renders lol yea let’s spend 6 hours drawing this in cad first and then 30 minutes rendering it
Thank you for this video! I'm a one man operation and this still is my biggest hurdle. It has almost put me out of business because people like this won't stop until they have the shirt of your back and your children's food and will still say you owe them. I have a people pleasing mentality and it's a almost a death sentence for my business. I know this is my weakness and have a hard time saying no. That's why I quit answering the phone and locking my shop doors when I can to avoid this. I can now tell when a customer has unreal expectations but it's easier for me to say no why it's over email. Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm taking notes.
Learning how & when to say "NO" is a lifesaver, as toxic relationships just aren't worth getting involved in. Generally speaking, I've found that those with an "abundance mentality" love my work, while those with a "poverty context" complain endlessly... it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out which type I want to work for.
I'm self employed and I had a great mentor at one time that told me every once in awhile you get a customer that does not want you to make money off them, bid really high or walk away
I expected you to tell me which blow torch to use.
In the beginning I dealt with alot of boundary pushing clients and tolerated it because I had just started and needed the money. Firing that first lousy customer was one of the hardest decisions I made professionally because, as you said, it's turning down money. But I found that removing these time suckers not only took alot of stress off my shoulders, it freed up my day and let me treat other projects with the attention I wanted all along. It even opened my day to take on other jobs.
You're absolutely right about it giving you a sixth sense for lousy clients. What's ironic is the vast majority all fall into a stereotype.
This is useful advice across industries. Well articulated. Thank you.
Glad you got that off your chest bud. And thanks for the honorable advice
Just ran into your channel... I like you your straight up sometimes you just have to do it... I've been running my welding Business going on 3 years now you meet all kinds of different customers some are cool they let you do the job some can just be a pain in the butt
Thank you so much...i felt alone in those feelings. Wow , really wow some ppl... I stretched as far as trying to teach the customer how to DIY it for FREE and he still felt as his schedule had to be mine , so sarcastic, and wanted me to pay for supplies
Good for you! This is important information
Lots of good information for someone just starting out and those who have been in the business for a while. I've had to fire customers before also. I even had to fire a car dealer when I told the salesman that I wouldn't know if the financing went through until Monday and he called on Saturday to ask if it went through.
I think the best way to go about doing it is to make it sound like you are telling them to "go to hell" but are making them feel like it's their idea.
On calling you at 1am that's just not done. I feel bad calling people on the weekends about a Craig's list ad.
I worked at 7-Eleven this is good customer service advice
Well said man. Keep up the good work and the good video content.
Great video and topic!
Great topic. Thank you.
Feeling successful the first time really came about 3 weeks ago for me. I made 100 dollars in 45 minutes performing 3 repairs, two of which were electrical issues. My experience from working on Hondas for 20 years now I feel is more valuable than the thousands ive even invested in the tools.
Man I love you for pulling this into the focus it is a difficult thing, but has to be adressed and teached, especially to newcomers who want to start a business!
About the part of burning bridges, I would say you need to be very professional, do not talk to a customer on an emotional level, stay neutral and just keep focus on the facts. i.e: I have to step back from our deal, cause with you cutting half the work I loose half of the brutto while not all of my expenses can be halfed externally, therefore my margine goes into negative and thats why I have to let go of this particular job. Do not talk about beeing angry or what your customer (or anyone) is or isn't, just plain and honest facts why you can't keep going on with this. May still thank them for their initial interest and tell them you are sorry that you can't do this in a way all parties are satisfied.
And remember, the "Customer is king" times are long gone, a customer is a partner, he gives you money in exchange for a particular product or service, you don't have to do anything that isn't part of this particular partnership if you don't want to!
Being honest and telling people why you fire them is a good thing, would also do that with employees, in a nice way for the solemn reason that they have an idea what they should improve to be better in the next job. I was fired several times and given a bullshit reason why (worst one was: you work too fast...) as Employee I just felt bullshitted, it's ok if someone isn't happy with my work and fires me, but at least I want so much decency and respect that the guy tells me honestly why and what I should have done different...
Be advised, some people are just not the kind of people you want to have a partnership, my first apprenticeship was in retail in a Craftsmencenter (selling Machines, Tools, Screws etc to mostly professionals and sometimes privates, and therefore high quality stuff which is way more expensive then home depot stuff), and I can tell you for hours about this kind of customer... Do learn to pick them and their behavour up in advance and cut them before waisting time and money on them. Like in the Video, cut the 10% out and save 80% of your ressources for the good partners. ;)
And a little bit from my personal life, I tried to work self employed for almost 2 years, somehow managed to survive that long even with all the mistakes I made. And my best advice I want to give to those trying their luck with selfemployment:
Be aware of what you can and what quality you deliver, and know what price your work deserves. Do not compete with the cheapest one, I did and in the end I did my work which was high quality for the price that some lowquality cheapass offered. I stoped after 2 years witk 20k dept, because I lost about 50k I could have earned without shame because I wasn't aware of how good my work is. Do not make my mistake, if the customer just wants the cheapest and a lot of problems afterwards, do let them make their own mistake and focus on the ones willing to pay a good price for good work ;)
Ps: Great Video, would love to see more of that kind, probably looking at things like - the math behind making an offer. - How to set up a good contract. - calculating how much material a job needs. And so one, like all the things founders need to now and often have no idea, also a good chance for you to generate traffic to your channel ;)
Pss: Sorry for my english, some sentences may sound awkward ^^
"would love to see more of that kind, probably looking at things like - the math behind making an offer." this is exactly what we do on Patreon with the bid breakdowns
@@42Fab didn't knew that, probably worth looking into then :)
I run an Auto repair/Fabrication business and I prominently display the "service triangle" "Cheap, Quick, and Don't right" Pick any 2. if it's cheap and quick it ain't going to be done right if it's cheap and done right it ain't going to be quick. etc.
A render for a 300 dollar job should be sketch on a napkin
Or a surcharge based on the cost of the render itself. (I.e. render is free if the job is worth X+ and you do the work, otherwise if you're taking my render and shopping it around, the render costs what it costs.)
Besides overbidding the price of a project, you could bid a delivery date that is so far into the future that the custome can't accept. They probably wouldn't have the common sense to know that you just told them to go fly a kite with their project. Sometimes, a clear definition of what the customer wants vs what the customer needs are in conflice with each other along with what youi are able to provide. Have you looked into using a Gnatt Chart? It basically breaks down a project into individual tasks and sets up milestones along the course of project so that everyone knows what tasks have to be done, how long (in hours or days) each task takes and when the task will be done (due date) so that you can give your customer a realistic delivery date. Big projects use the chart but it can be adapted and simplified to small projects, too.
One of my business partners often says to me "If people show you who they are, don't make them show you twice". She says it often because I'm a slow learner. Great video.
great advice. Your a good man
9:50 these type people are usually the type to leave bad Facebook or Yelp reviews claiming how scammed they were... and.. there's all the "Karen's"
Screw then, don’t relay on facebook or yelp or google reviews for business, if you have a good customer base 1 “bad” review won’t matter anyway as your customer know who you are. Don’t get caught up in “likes” and “followers”.
I have run into people like your describing. Big plans and want custom projects done at cheaper than off the shelf.
Hey my Brother it's your Business and you do assets fits and you go on,You will find people like that all over the place,You have a awesome channel and I love and a learn new things to,Take care and much love Family later :)
Customers can be a nightmare.
Very good advice.
Good topic! I have to " fire" quite a few customers over the years. Usually I will complete the job and black list them 😁. Some like you I have had to quit mid project, which I really don't like to do.
Yep, for me it's business consulting, but I've gotten to the point where I'm very picky about qualifying my customers. I've been at a few presentations where I've been scheduled for a 2-3 hour presentation/demo in competition against many other consultants, when the prospects come out swinging and dictating terms, etc. I've stood up, wished them the best of luck with the other people they were meeting and walked out so as not to waste their time or mine. Given that this is a small world, I usually end up knowing who won the job and the nightmares they've lived with those customers, so I'm glad I didn't waste my valuable time. In some cases the customers have come back to me with their tails tucked between their legs and I've been able to help these humbled customers get out of their mess and we're able to work on mutually agreeable terms.
Your a lot more diplomatic than I can be at times, (former New Yorker by the way, now living in the People's Republic of Washington state) but I usually go straight with the: I like to get kissed before getting "F" word, involving a sexual act. Then my new go to line: It's not that I don't trust you, it's that I FLAT A$$ don't trust you, now having dealt with the trust issue's, let's carry on." ({"Lets carry on,"} Only if I feel the project is worth it, at that point!!!!) You would be surprised at some of the response's, in a positive way I might add. Great video Richard, thank you for sharing. This is what youtube is great for, gives people a chance to showcase their skills whether in dealing with people, or doing a craft such as yours, or both. Also gives people a look at how others seek ways to slice & dice the apple, if you will. Your slice's can be very DEEP! Good for you.
Great advice bro!
You’re a really nice guy.
I completely agree
Good video Rich
OUTSTANDING
Subbed. Had a customer call me at 1am before too, and had the nerve to say, “oh wow, I didnt think youd answer”.... boy o boy 🤬 lol
$125 / 52 = $2.40 per text. Then the material, power coat & labor. You did good!
Yep. Yep and yep. Keep up the great content Richard. I get it completely. 😉
Weird, I just did this exact thing today.
Kinda off the subject but my wife just ordered sum of your weld it yourself kits looking forward to welding it
Thanks for the support!
She can't call them 'Weld it yourself' unless she does the welding!!
Great Video!
On point. Good vid.
You should do more videos like this!!
What would be relevant that you'd like to hear?
Great Video! 👍🏼
having had my own business my favorite job quote is when you give them a price and they keep adding work to the list and the final bill is higher and the freak out or dont understand why the bill is higher. MORE WORk+ more time = more cost (money)
I also fired a customer when I was starting and I was not exactly thriving, but it wasn't worth the hassle, I'm glad I did. I even low balled to get the job.
She initially asked for some light fixtures and didn't care how it was done as long as it was cheap, she kept not showing at agreed time, multiple times. When I was doing the job she changed her mind about the looks and wanted electrical routing done differently. I complied, but when I finished I charged extra for the multiple trips she made me do and the extra cable I had to buy for her demands.
She bursted out as well, didn't argue with her told her I was not gonna force her to pay me the extra, but that I was done with her. For the following week she kept messasing me saying we both did mistakes and should move past it. LOL.
Good Lord! Customer or ex-wife?
Some good lines 👌
Im a tattoo artist, Im so glad i watched this!
What kind of frustrations do you face?
@@RobXb anyone in the service industries deal with a bad client. My biggest issue is people contacting me when I'm out to dinner with my family. Or stopping me before a movie to talk about a tattoo design. People fail to realize that I'm a human too and have a life. Hope that helped a bit.
I have fired more customers than have fired me - mostly because of communication issues or unreasonable expectations. I try very hard to prevent both now, but I still have to cut a customer loose, I just try to do it BEFORE I begin working for them.
Omg they called you at 1 am wow
One reason not to use personal cell phone for. business learned that the hard way tard’s texting and call all hours of night. I put my phone do not disturb when I go to sleep.
Happens to me a lot, but my clients know that if I open the shop at 1am for an 'after-hours' emergency job, it's $300 an hour.
My way of firing a customer is to finish the job that prompted their termination (not that I’m saying you did) is to tell them that I’m too swamped every time they RFP me or if they really insist, inflate the price. Either way, no prolonged discussions with them.
I have definitely got the 1030 pm sure day night and many texts 1 2 3 AM it is so stressful
Excellent video! For future reference for myself here are the time stamps of the golden nuggets. 5:05, 5:29, 9:20
How to fire a customer. Subbed and hit the bell!
Definitely true about getting a 6th sense for timewaster customers. My 6th sense is progressing well. I'll price up jobs when I get it and 9/10 times the customer comes back with a million different requests. Often said customer will start out by asking for a quote before making their customization requests. This makes it hard to get your quote right. I tend to go a bit high, but if they come back for more work I can then quote for the PAI factor or lack there of. I've never fired a customer but I had had them go silent after the quote. When this happens you know its a good thing.
I was working at my dad;s business. a client came in with one helluva chip on his shoulders. at first I thought he was kidding around ... and THEN ... he struck with a hot iron, very hot iron. I drug his ass into the office, pulled out the telephone book, opened it to the same type of business and told him to find someone else to do his bidding. he got pissed off, called my dad on his cell phone and told him how I treated him, without the explanation WHY. Dad called me on my phone and told to wait at the office so he could kick my butt. Things changed after I told him what happened and then dad went after the douche. NEVER FORGOT THAT ONE....matter of fact, I left dad's business. REALLY hurts !!
This was good
I have only done it once since I started my business. I had worked for this company a handful of times and each time it was drama filled. I decided to double the price and they went for it. Next job they took my price but then drug out payment for 5 months. I decided to no quote after that. Then they talked me into another job, I tripled the price and told them it was cash at pickup. They complied and it went fine. The next job went like the earlier ones, payment took so long I honestly thought I was getting stiffed. Decided to never work for them again.
Talking with a few others in my area and they have had the same experience with this company. What I don't understand is why a business would go out of their way to treat others this way, it's not like we are in a large market, there are only a few shops in this area and we all know of each other and with most of them I have very good relationships with them to the point that if we get in a pickle we bail each other out. As you said it is respect for each other.
I've been there, if I detect malice in the way they act I'll generally still take their money and do their work, it's just all 100% paid up front. One customer even asked if it was because he was an asshole. "your words, not mine" and he laughed and said "yeah, fair enough." The guy is still a regular, still always 100% upfront.
You're doing it right man. Can't tell you how many scheming customers I've had trying to get more out of me for less money. Those people all have a common trait, cheap. They're all to nice when they want something, but the first time something doesn't go their way, they immediately want to tell you how to run things. Their talk is cheap, and they cannot stay away. Cut them out ASAP. I could give two shits what they think about anything, I never asked for their opinion, never will. Opinions don't matter when everyone understands the project or product. It is what it is. I've literally banished customers. 99% of people are righteous, but those 1% fuckers, I will cut down like dead wood.
Wow, what great timing. Had to fire a client today. Scope creep out the wazoo and way too many messages.
First you have to determine what the definition of what a customer is. After 45 years dealing with people this is my definition. A customer is an asset. A asset is a positive. When the person stops being a positive they stop being a customer, they are a liability!
loved the advise of your father! and your mother dressed you weird!
The most important resource is time. You can get more money through various avenues but once time is gone, it’s gone forever. You can’t buy more or borrow more, so time is a limited resource that expires every day.
Yeah it can get really crazy. Right now I can't get workers.the covid thing has people on ice. Its difficult.
I've had a lot of customers like that. These people act like they think there my only customer. They don't realize I have a whole bunch of jobs to do everyday. If I tell them late in the day I will do there job, there calling first thing in the morning. Then I have to tell them with all the phone calls and text messages now I don't have time to do your job.
My friends and family don't call me at 1am to ask how it's going!
good video
I think the thing that bothers me the most is that sometimes customers think that you should be able to do some thing in an hour or two, they don’t understand that designing and prepping stuff takes time. And occasionally people will ask me if I have ever been stiffed, I told him that I haven’t had a problem because if I don’t get paid I will come back and get my weld😁
Learning how & when to say "NO" is a lifesaver, as toxic relationships just aren't worth getting involved in. Generally speaking, I've found that those with an "abundance mentality" love my work, while those with a "poverty context" complain endlessly... it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out which type I want to work for.
I run a wedding cake business, it’s always annoying when the accept the FU quote.
I have a customer swearing that I said I’d do the job for free. What I said was I wouldn’t charge a second service call fee for coming back out, 70 miles away & installing a part he ordered online. Just the labor to install the part. There is no reasoning with them, no logic & now they’re acting like I’m the devil himself. I can’t believe how evil people become when you won’t allow them to take advantage of you. Too many People suck! My best customers are also repeat customers & referrals from those repeat customers. You try & help people out & if they appreciate it they’re worth going above & beyond
pretty much gospel here. Offering to do a free call with 2 hours of driving was first mistake. I'd offer to do it next time I'm in the area to be nice, but not as a free trip
My company received a couple of (what looked like) "fuck you" bids from our regular contractors on a piece of work we bid out, and we ended up going with a company who put in a lowball bid becasue they were hungry to get on our company's "regular" bid list.
Several months later the low ball guys realized they were in *way* over their heads and abandoned the job half-done. So we ended up getting one of the regular guys at the "fuck you" price to finish the job - ahd we know they'll do it right.
The regulars knew the job was going to be a massive pain-in-the-ass and bid accordingly.
And, no, I'm not involved in the bid award process, I just have to deal wit the installation after it is (finally) done.
Sometimes that can be a part. I have had very minor looking details be the reason for a doubling of a bid, without it being a "FU" bid.
I agree but with the internet media how do you deal with the negative feedback.
From the excustomer?
You respond honestly. The part about not trying to offend them? That's a big part of avoiding the pissed off reviewer to start with
@@42Fab its hard when they 'rage quit' you.
Don’t replay on internet feed back to effect Your business model. Its good and all but if your honest your customer base will grow by word of mouth way faster then facebook. And those are customers you want.
It is the very same thing in aviation Maintenance! I 'm not as nice as you, I just tell them to get out of my face. I sound like what your Dad would say, I'm betting we are about the same age!
As an attorney, I can't just quit, I have to get permission from the judge to quit. I know that when I fire a customer it's going to take me about about 30 min to an hour of billable time to officially be finished with them. My contract now accounts for that. I recently had a customer tell me that there shouldn't be anything else I needed to bill them for before we went to court. Nope. Don't hire me for my expertise and then tell me what I do and do not need to do before the hearing. Another one this week told me the Department of Human Services didn't need to sign off on the divorce decree. Oh really?? Did the law recently change? Lol
Some people have to turn everything into a "workup" I'm currently suffering with one. Everything is continually altered because it can be.
I think you should have just made an automated message system of 3 randomly generated phrases for when ever the customer kept texting you
100%
My father ran a tool shop, pretty specialised stuff, he had a particular customer who was 90% of the aggravation and 2% of the work plus he would always drag payment out so the old man fired him, turned out he needed them more than they needed him so eventually the old man took him back, half money up front and balance on pickup. End of problem.
You are wise beyond your age.
I own a auto repair shop and I don’t really have to fire customers often they kinda fire themselves. If the customer is a pain in the ass I will quote the job high and they will either fire themselves or they will do the job and I need to get paid more for me to feel that I’m getting paid enough to deal with them. I had a customer call me last week that needed a heater core done in a ford truck.this customer just paid 1850 bucks for me to rebuild their transmission so I have him the normal price it was like 900 plus tax. Well the customer kinda got upset and said damn dude I don’t want you to rebuild the truck I just want the heater core done man. I actually did a heater core in a car a few days before that and I was actually doing a heater core while I was in the phone with the customer. I told him I am actually doing a second heater core week right now as we speak and to be honest with you I really don’t even want to do the job! He said why not that’s a lot of money for you? I said you have to take the entire dash out it’s a pain in the ass to do yeah it’s good money but it’s a lot of work. Well the tone in his voice changed almost like he might have thought I was over charging but then realized that I was serious about the job being a pain in the ass. It happens a lot in this business customers think that a mechanic is all happy to do a big expensive job but that’s not always the case I would much rather do easy brake jobs all day. But customers just don’t understand that they just think about the price. I’ll never forget the way he changed the tone in his voice when I said I really didn’t want to do the job
Another nagging problem is that while some customers understand custom work and pricing, most expect Chinese rates but want first rate, custom work.
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After being in business for 2 1/2 years I realized that I need to make some major changes to my business and setting boundaries with my customers. I work alone 99% of the time and I cannot have customers just "stopping by" anymore. Not only does that waste so much time, but it stresses me the fuck out when they come to my shop and start criticizing what I'm doing or talking about making changes. No, that was the agreed upon design and price, any changes will take more time and cost additional money!
Unannounced visitors are a major problem. Try being a youtuber with a public address...
@@42Fab Yeah, that is a serious issue! Luckily my shop is behind a private residence in the woods, so that issue has been my fault. On another note, I always enjoy your videos!
It is hard in the beginning, but some times turning a particular job down is the only sensible option. Customers build reputations too...do they think that fabricators are ten a penny and never talk to each other lol
We have one local authority that finds it very difficult to get reasonable quotes from the local fabs. purely due to their reputation for changing specs at the last minute (usually while the order is out for galvanising) along with late payment or failure to pay their bills.
Some of the worst customers are from auction sites such as Fleabay (you know the one) demanding custom log holders for standard prices and threatening to ruin your reputation with a bad comment and poor feedback.
Seems like maybe the upfront communication was unclear or expectations on timing were not properly set.
I'm guessing you don't own your own business
This is why I decided to get into products and not services. Look at your weld kits. You sell them. It’s model a b or c. You can’t ask for different paint or finish. You get what you get. I do electronics engineering consulting but now I’m getting more into products. The profit margins are crazy high on a printed circuit board. Initial engineering is expensive but for me that part is free. These videos are making me not want to get into welding. I was just going to offer some neighborhood services for cheap to fund my welding hobby but now IDK lol
Welding is just as any other business. Keeping thinking your time is free and you'll end up giving it all away
In 10 years I’ve only fired a couple customers... but man it was hard for me to do it....
yep, never feels good, never something you WANT to do, more need to.