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Aircraft Performance | Piston Engine vs Jet Engine!
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2020
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Very important video exploring the differences between piston engines and jet engines and how they affect aircraft performance in different ways. Both have their uses and applications, but the jet engine became a disruptive new technology, good enough to begin to compete with the best of the piston engines ever made by the end of World War 2.
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Give me your educational video ideas!
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how fast go aywo pawne?!
The most clean prop fighter
Aircraft stability and control perhaps?
Could you do a comparison like this but with jets like the mig 21 smt, F4 and others? To see which engines perform best at certain alts and speeds or which engine has the best twr?
Superchargers vs turbochargers, multi-stage stuff in engines
I don't even play the game anymore but I am still watching this channel.
Thanks for the support!
Same
Me too I'm migrated for league of legends
@@filipovarela2979 so you traded a toxic game with good community for a good game with a toxic community
Ah I see you managed to escape. Well done!
Smh I was expecting a P-26 Vs F-4E style video
USSR version must be the Chad Po-2 vs The Virgin Mig-21
Would be a close dogfight.
@@AdamTheEnginerd wright flyer vs F22 Raptor
RAAFLightningII Wright flier would kick the snot out of the raptor
@@RAAFLightning1 pterodactyl vs NGAD
Wow, this is great, thank you Adam.
Thanks Greg, means a lot! Congrats on 50k subscribers by the way, you deserve it!
"Infinity War is the greatest crossover event of all time!"
Me:
@@AdamTheEnginerd are you sure me 262 climb 15m/s and p 51 30m/s
This video just got mentioned by Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles in a video about superprops!
Yeah I'm honored!
5:03 You nailed the pronunciation.
Thanks!
I'm so early, doc isn't here yet
27 seconds faster
helo
So its faster than light shit
Praise your efforts.
5:04 very accurate yes
Just say,, You Monster'' but leave out the nster
Alright thanks!
The pronunciation is correct. Me as a german, im also not sure but i thinks its really Jumo just Jumo. I never heard of this Word "Jumo" so...
Yep, I would also say that he pronounced it right. I don't think, that the Germans in WW2 would give anything a name which is pronounced the English way.
Iirc it is an abbreviation for Junkers Motorenwerke, if it helps.
Thanks!
Same "ju" as Junkers
Studying German and I would try to pronounce it as an English Y as well.
Yes Adam as a German I can confirm, that the way you said Jumo, is one correct pronunciation of the word.
Me 262 gameplay when :D
There are 2 good option in my opinion. The Me 262 A-1a/U1, it has super nice guns, great for destroying aircrafts in one straif and you can use each cannon individually. It can be surprisingly effective.
Orrr the Me 262 C-2b, which can club any cold war Jet with their supreme rocket acceleration power, it's great for stall fighting.
Anyways, great educational video, keep it up!
Thanks!
50mm Me262 soon perhaps ;).
You actually enjoy the c2b? I only like the a1a really
The video is so simple that even I can understand it, thank you! Please continue what you're doing, dude, you're amazing!
Glad to hear that! Thanks, I will!
this is quite possibly my favorite video of yours so far. outstanding.
Thanks Joe! No big yikes from you?
Nice video. love those graph videos, well edited and informational!
Thanks Brownie!
Great video Adam!
Thanks!
Here's an idea for the next educational video : to show the differences between water cooled engine VS air cooled engine, and between a turbo prop and a classic compressor. I don't know if this is a big topic, but I'll like to understand why the Wyvern is sooo noisy ;) Au revoir !
Perhaps!
A turboprop is basically a jet engine with a propeller attached to its compressor shaft, so the noise you're hearing from the Wyvern is the loud AF jet exhaust
Now this is the content I subscribed for.
It's the content I like making!
I actually subscribed for the same reason haha, but the other War Thunder videos are fun to watch too
Some General Electric employee watching this via area 51 : *WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN!!!!!*
Haha nice.
This is why (and the gaming *balance* ) i like more the props than the jets... Yet i really like the MiG-15bis design filosophy... High thrust, lightweight airframe airplane
I prefer props as well.
Arrive here because you're mentionen in Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles :)
Yeah I saw, welcome!
Great video as always! Can you explain what contributes to differences in acceleration depending on the speed? For example MiGs have great low speed acceleration, but Sabres accelerate faster at higher speeds.
Thanks!
Transonic/wave drag is a big reason why, I explain it in this video: czcams.com/video/kFltktav3So/video.html
Lol just realized I played with you in the K4 today. You answered my question about whether or not the 30mm was worth it xD
I answer everything ;).
@@AdamTheEnginerd Lol ty.
An air cooled piston engine would have been the better compairson for power / thrust:weight compairsons. The v12 you have here is water cooled thus needs cooling lines and radiators which add mass. Air cooled pistons only need oil coolers and jet engines require those too. But I guess the conclusion that first generation jet engines are inferior to advanced pistons would not change. Those were just too weak, which made them one trick ponies.
So my goal was to choose the best piston engine so that there's no room to doubt that a "bad" jet truly did give better top speed than the piston engine, and people would say the radial plane would have more drag than the jet/inline plane. My counter to the coolant weight on the prop aircraft is the higher fuel consumption of the jet which forces it to load more fuel weight to have the same range.
Conclusion is that an early jet is better for top speed, but the best prop is much better for climb.
@@AdamTheEnginerd propeller driven by reciprocating or by turboprop/turboshaft engine?
I can imagine watching this in science class one day
Hahaha it's kinda not what I learned in science class though.
In WT though, I find that at lower altitude, at lower speed, and when fighting the early Axis jets, the late Allied prop fighters often fair better. Sure the jets can escape you, but as soon as you trap them in a dogfight there's not a lot they can do. They acceleration so much slower at low energy that you can catch them for way longer than they think you can.
Yup low speed is where the piston engines are better than jet engines.
I recently revisited the me262 and this was my experience as well. Idk why but people seem to not realize that if you lose any energy by turning you'll get turned into mince meat by the props.
Might also be that the experienced pilots are playing at toptier and only inexperienced jet pilots remain at 7.X - since playing jets requires scrapping a lot of the fundemental rules of props the drop in skill level makes sense.
6.7-7.3 jets are actually fun, but nobody who has any choice wants to fly them because 3/4 of your team will die in head-ons to F89Ds 3 minutes in to the battle.
@@theraindog9141 idiots/arcade clowns are in every tier and every match. P51Ds with bombs rushing at 50m above ground, sounds familiar?
@@Kalmo_ It's also because high-aspect high-closure shots are absolutely horrible to pull off for a novice such as myself, so we tend to want to slot ourselves behind the enemy for an easier shot, thus getting sucked into a turnfight.
Hello, I remember that I learned how to play the G2 with your video, now I'm researching the German MiG15 after I master the Dora. Now I got the SM.91 but I don't know how to play it, don't use much twin engine planes.
Good luck! I don't like twin engine aircraft in general as well.
@@AdamTheEnginerd hahaha, I forgot to ask if you could make a video pro playing it like the G2, since my way to play the G2 was made after watching your video, I though I could do the same with the SM91.
Saludos!
Maybe, though your best bet is to join my streams and request I fly it.
@@AdamTheEnginerd I'm like a traditionalist, I never leave yt lol, but I guess I will do it.
i love these educational videos!!! well actually all the videos you make! always checking to see when you upload!!!
Thanks Kermit for the support!!
Adam senpai releasing crazy new video ?!
Every 2 weeks ;).
Thank you,learned a lot!
Glad to hear it!
the plane consumes a lot on take-off and landing. An airliner generally manages to safely travel 10 meters per meter of altitude simply by gliding, so if a plane flies at 6000m it can lower engine power and descend without consuming fuel for 60km
(Comment bugged, see answerers)
Even more than a 10 glide ratio.
AdamTheEnginerd lol YT has lots of bugs. I’ll try to write again the whole comment
AdamTheEnginerd Hi Adam! Why are planes the most polluting means of transport for stretches between 500 and 1000km? Flying at high altitudes the aircraft has less aerodynamic drag and does not have the friction caused by the tires. The explanation of many newspapers is this: the plane consumes a lot on take-off and landing. An airliner generally manages to safely travel 10 meters per meter of altitude simply by gliding, so if a plane flies at 6000m it can lower engine power and descend without consuming 60km fuel
@@ferrarisuper They are pretty close to cars though.
Nice video dude!!
Thanks dude!
Even though the Jumo004 had more then 3 times less man hours then the BMW801 it only had a service life of some 10-25 hours.
Yup, due to material shortages.
Veery good pronounciation of the Jumo!
Thanks!
You explain so good Adam, i love you.
Thanks! 😃
Great vid man
Thanks man!
Excellent video!
Thanks!
@@AdamTheEnginerd Glad you and Defyn are still around making vids on the regular. Took a lengthy break from WT and it's good to be back!
hey Adam, this is kinda off topic but I love watching ur videos and everything that involves war thunder I enjoy watching the videos but I can't seem to have fun in the game do you have any tips
Hmm, just take a break. Play other games for a week or 2, and come back to it. Don't play if you aren't having fun.
I might do that thanks for the advice
Remember when you're just a guy playing with a biplane, trying to shoot enemy from 5 km away, think bot plane was a real player, don't know why your plane slow down when your engine stop, and use Golden Eagles to research the modification, and now you end up with this.
Haha nice.
What about turboprops like A2D or wyvern ? Can u make video about this kind of aircrafts ?
What kind of video?
How they work, what is difference between them and props. Also It would be great if you will explain how double propellers works I mean planes like wyvern a2d and spitfire
@@Protos56 I'll consider it!
Thank you for answer
Is the 26% increase in speed when you add another prop engine a universal number or is it just for this specific example?
both
Universal for doubling power. Doubling thrust increases speed by 2^(1/2) = 1.4, while doubling power increases speed by 2^(1/3) = 1.26.
not exactly. This works at low mach. An F-82 is not 26% faster than a P-51D because compressibility effects become important and drag increases faster than v^2
@@appa609 Of course, but a twin engine prop will not reach level flight top speeds where compressibility effects have an effect anyway (M0.75+), so in this case this was a more than justified statement.
@@AdamTheEnginerd A late war prop plane may be flying at Mach 0.6-0.65 free stream but most of the air actually passing over the plane is going a fair bit faster: M0.8-0.85 or so over the wing, and it does matter.
You can see this in the DCS modeling. At 20,000 ft in the TF-51 my top level speed at 40" MPR was 245 kias while at 59.5" MPR it was 273 kias. If it was a straight quadratic scaling it would be 280 kias. The difference is small but not inconsequential.
Can you please fly the Yak-3U again? It's been lowered to 5.3 and should be very strong now.
Maybe! You can also request it on stream to watch me fly it.
Hey adam do you have a video how to fight zeros with F4U? That would be lovely cause I struggle with them a lot.
If you don't have the energy advantage, run away and bait for teammates.
The probelm is the teammate sometime die to fast
This channel offers so much more than war thunder
Indeed!
I wish people realized that you have a twitch, you would have a lot more views if they did
All in due time.
Fantastic. Totally informative. Thank you!
Thanks for the praise nairb!
Thank you for such useful video
You are most welcome!
Hmm... it seems the inefficiency is because of the propeller not by piston engine itself. There are Turbo Props.
I would love to learn why prop engine now primary uses jet not piston
No it's just how piston engine power varies with speed.
It's for ease of maintenance, less expensive fuel and parts and more energy dense for high power applications than for pistons.
Your educational videos are great.
Thanks Waldo!
@@AdamTheEnginerd a suggestion for a future video, could you explain why different aircraft experience control stiffening and compression at different speeds.
@@wyvern7567 Not really something to explain, it's what Gaijin thinks is accurate based on pilot reports.
I'm not sure about Jumo, but i like the way you say thrrrust.
Haha thanks!
Dude i have a request for a video! If you can make a video with the P38 (my fav allied aircraft) It will be great!
Already have a few P38 videos! Not enough?
@@AdamTheEnginerd Oh ok man thanks im gonna see it now! thanks!
My pleasure!
Really cool video!
Thanks Hans!
Hey Adam, I’m a curious engineering student and I was wondering where you got your stats from for these videos.
Mainly from the flight model data files. For this video in particular, all I did was use the power, thrust and mass in the xray and test fly to get a prop efficiency curve (check out my rate of climb video for that part).
requesting for aiming guide!!
(im an old player who sucks at aiming ;~;)
DEFYN made one if you're interested.
Pronuncation is correct. For sure i polish language, but my deutsch teacher says "correct" too, so i think it's okay:P
In Germany, and my country "J" is something like "Y" in "yeet" or smth.
Haha J like Yeet.
If the Thunderscreech guys would have thought about this..... It was still an amazing plane though
Pretty sure the main point of that plane was for research.
Love ur Vids man❤️
Thanks man!
Your accent is kinda strange. Where are you originally from, bro?(I smell Italy but I'm not sure) Just curious. Awesome work btw :D
Canada (French Canadian).
Me to the actual video: Okay...
Also me to the thumbnail: *IS THIS A JOJO REFERENCE?!!!!!*
Haha oof.
@@AdamTheEnginerd I see you're a JoJo fan as well
I would like to see what does air brakes like with real data like turn time thx a lot !
How air brake affects turn time?
Have an entire lesson teaching the physics behind rate of climb, roll, turn, etc
I have separate videos on all of that!!
Ah, I should start watching all of your old videos!
You should! Let me know if you don't find them. I have a playlist for all my educational videos.
The prop have better acceration compared to early jet? Prop have better rate of climb than early jet? And prop have better high altitude performance than early jet?
That's a fair statement yeah.
Do radiators help an aircraft turn? Do flaps bleed speed while turning or going vertical?
No, and yes: czcams.com/video/HVhf8hL_buU/video.html
As Borat would say, "Very nice, good job!"
Haha thanks?
Are piston engine fighters/ bombers better at maneuverability , turning tight corners, rolling etc (so as to get on the tail of their opponent ) than a jet fighter aircraft?
They aren't better because of the different engine, it's because it's more advantageous for jet aircraft to have a lower wing area to reduce drag and be able to reach higher speeds than for a prop aircraft, so a prop aircraft will tend to have a lower wingloading and hence turn better than a jet.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thanks. So theoretically , in dogfight between a jet and a piston engine plane, i guess it will be very very difficult for a jet to get onto the piston fighter's tail.
@@tanmayranjan6057 Yup, exceptions are early jets like Meteor and Ho229 which have similar wing loading as piston aircraft.
So technically EVERY aircraft post ww2 is the result of the victory of thrust over aerodynamics and not just the F4 phantom?
It's a combination of everything, I'm just saying engine development had the biggest effect on increased performance.
@@AdamTheEnginerd I figured as much, however i thought it fun to point out.
Is there a reason for differences in the change in thrust at different speeds for different piston engine aircraft? You mentioned before that the 109 generates lower thrust at low speeds(and WEP wouldn't be necessary)
Yes! Prop efficiency on small props with high power suffers at low speed, hence why it suffers on Bf109s.
this is truly engineer gaming
Indeed!
4:35 When you say CD = 0.02, are you referring to the zero lift drag coefficient?
Yeah should be CD0.
I would like to listen about how aircraft fly with supersonic speed. As i know it differs from subsonic.
Hmm then you might be interested in this video: czcams.com/video/kFltktav3So/video.html
very interesting
I agree!
Great video man! Can you explain what the difference is between takeoff power vs max power? Thanks :)
Thanks man! One is WEP the other is 100%.
Can EDFs or electric powered propellers fly at high altitude and high speeds as a jet engine with modern motors ?
I can't wait for modern after burning turbofans in WT
T2 has an afterburning turbofan.
Im on d side of G.T.E. I think you miss the very importance of comparing between two engine that should have the same mechanical design of transferringn its power.Piston engine propeller vs. turboprop. And i think piston engine has less problem accelerating itself because in terms of producing power to its combustion, piston engine has a what we called compression and while the turboprop(turbojet) we have a pressure inside combustion chamber. So accelerating the propeller isnt that much harder to piston engine and while to a turboprop it takes a few second to accelerate the props. And the problem to a piston engine is itself, at the high speed situation piston cant handle a huge mass that it produce due to its reciprocating motion, vibration cause of a sudden change of pressure and the design of the crankshaft(firing order)so it will only end up in a self destruct engine. While a turborpop there is No problem producing a high speed motion because the nature of its design it only rotates and less mass problem.
The point is comparing the performance of early turbojet engines at the end of WW2 against late piston engines to see if it was worth using the early turbojets in combat aircraft, that's why I'm making this comparison. There is more inertia to a turboprop or a turbine engine in general than to a piston engine indeed.
@@AdamTheEnginerd yes and your right and thanks that WW2 ended before the german develop its G.T.E thank you for posting a video about it.
Adam, I've joined your stream and have been told don't trust stat cards. Do you have a spreadsheet for actual stats? The MER one needs to be updated I think.
Yeah stat cards are very misleading. Check spreadsheets in the description.
Why do you say the MER one needs to be updated?
@@AdamTheEnginerd The ta152 has a new MER after 1.95 I think
Very close to the same, but yeah will retest it soon.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Are you willing to do turn or climb next? Can you insert a tutorial on how to calculate the statd by ourselves? Like the formula or something.
I did videos on turn and climb.
Turn: czcams.com/video/HVhf8hL_buU/video.html
Climb: czcams.com/video/eEeBX7XAgsw/video.html
You need to consider fuel weight, as jets are drastically less efficient per unit time.
Would be fairer to compare for a given range, but then you need to consider the extra propeller weight, cooling system weight and drag. The approximation I made was to not consider fuel consumption and cooling systems, it seems reasonable to me.
@@AdamTheEnginerd what you're saying is absolutely reasonable, but the more factors that are considered, the more accurate a representation of each technology we receive, for example, b-51D and H also got a small degree of thrust from their radiator cooling systems underneath the aircraft. I totally understand the amount of time that would require to pack something like that into a video, while also keeping it interesting for the audience. It certainly isn't always practical to make the video more complex.
Ora Ora Ora!
What do we have here!
Haha what?
Very nice video.
Would you recommend the 6.7 262 A2 over the usual 7.0 262 for air battles?
Thanks!
Yeah I would.
Can you explain why Japan almost always wins at 4.0-5.7 br RB?
Less bombers and attackers on their team.
does a double propeller mounted in the front of the plane (like the A2D) increases thrust??
That's a good question. It's mainly to keep the propeller diameter small while still being able to efficiently use a lot of power, and to remove torque. It's a bit more efficient too, but also heavier.
If a space fighter plane had the wings design like the Imperial TIE fighter, Y-Wing, X-Wing, T-50, Darth Vader's private Tie fighter, and many others, would it still guarantee the plane to fly in the atmosphere similar to earth?
@@Historedity Anything can fly with a powerful enough engine, but those wings would be inefficient in an atmosphere indeed.
How to calculate L/D % or sizing from airfoil to the real size wing?
There are conversion factors going from a 2D airfoil to a 3D wing, most depend on Reynolds number and aspect ratio. Depending on your precision tolerance, just taking the 2D airfoil lift and drag and adding induced drag could be good enough.
Could you play the ki 84 hei? Want to know if its any good.
At 6.3 there are better planes for the BR.
Have you played the Firecrest?
Lots of people said it's bad but a few said it's good so i'd like to know the truth
Nope, don't have it.
Why not have it then?
@@easy_eight2810 I'm not in a squadron that plays a lot haha.
Adam will all modern fighter aircraft be replaced by piston engines since its cheap and more operate ?
No haha, jet engines fit fighter aircraft much better than jet engines.
Would a TA152 H propulsed by a Jet engine work? Or be more slower???
Adam, how do I kill a Japanese plane in a 190f or 109g6 and up?
Rare matchup. 190 run to teammates, 109 climb until you have the altitude advantage.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Could you tell me what the Japanese vehicles are good and bad at in a nutshell? Kis and a6ms and J2s etc?
2:43 do you mean drag is proportional to speed squared?
Nono, I meant kinetic energy. I also show the equation for kinetic energy there.
I see
G'day
So I've have watch a few of your vids thus far & figured I'd sub, Vid Idea the effects of Hydrofoil vs standard ship hulls as a topic Idea, fun fact the oldest vessel faces the youngest one at BR 3.7 with 78 years between them two.
Welcome!
That would be an interesting topic if I do any ship stuff haha.
can u do a video on seafire fr 47 ?
It's on my list, but best chance is to tune in to my streams and request it!
Hey Adam, ever considered playing Sim? Would love to see your tactics applied to SB!
Maybe, but looking for dots for hours would strain my eyes.
@@AdamTheEnginerd that's fair I suppose
Why werent the AN/M2 cannons installed on the p51s
AN/M2s weren't too reliable afaik, and 50 cals were sufficient and in great supply.
Make a video for I-225 pls
It's on my list! You should come and request it on stream though.
He he hey, anther education video, yaiii
Hype!!
poggies
eggies
Peggies.
Can you take out the F4U-4B again please with a cherry on top 😗
Haha my high number of F4U4B videos aren't enough?
AdamTheEnginerd no like 1 or more will be good
AdamTheEnginerd and I’m grinding America again so like....you flying it would give me some type of hope that allies aren’t trash🥺
Mattia Colombini yeshh I’m grinding America with a talisman p-40 E and I aced the crew and I don’t even know how
Hey, what would you say is the best P-51 for its BR?
P51, P51D10, P51H.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thanks for the response. But I looked through the tree, and I don't think there is a P-51D-10. Do you mean the D5, D20, or D30? Also are those ones bad?
Adam, how do I kill a yak in a 109G2 or K? General information if they're similar. Specific information if some are different.
Depends on Yak. They'll outturn you, so get the energy advantage with your superior climb/altitude performance and BnZ.
@@AdamTheEnginerd But, those things barley stall and have better climb than a K4 or G2
Nah they have worse climb except Yak3U/VK107.
@@AdamTheEnginerd How do I beat those? I forgot that I would play the G6 14 and 10. What is better g14 or g10?
Yak3U has worse high altitude performance, so climb. Yak3VK has the BF109's number, weaknesses are guns and low rip speed. You need teammates.
If props are more efficient then jets at low speeds then why does a A10 (which is slower than a p51) has a jet engine.
It has a high bypass turbofan instead of a pure turbojet, which is significantly better at A10 speeds than a turbojet. For A10 duties a turboprop would probably have been ideal, but then where will you mount the massive gun if you have a prop in the front? Turbofan engine naturally allows you to mount 2 of them for safety as well.
@@AdamTheEnginerd thanks Adam!! you really do know a lot about aircraft!
Hey Adam, with the P-51H do I have to change the supercharger manually or the game does it automatically?
If you don't use MEC everything is automatic. In the case of P51s, it's automatic even if you do use MEC as well.
You will also see that if an f4 engine was to compete in this competition... well it can’t cuz it’s not fair
F4 Phantom?
AdamTheEnginerd indeed
Yeah for sure, as with engine dev as time goes on.
AdamTheEnginerd yup we’ll prob see better engines in the future and look back to our engines now and say. Damn that sht trash
Eh for turbine engines, we aren't too far away from the limit of what we can do.