HAM RADIO: Building a magnetic loop antenna Part 1
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- čas přidán 31. 08. 2020
- So much to do, the construction of a Mag Loop.. Its all been none stop over the past month or two... let me know in the comments below what you want to see me build and I will try to do it. :)
This upload is all about building a MagLoop (Magnetic Loop Antenna) its been a long time in the making but has proven to be worth the wait. this is part 1 of a 2 part upload, in the second part I will list all the parts and measurements you will need to copy the antenna you see here..
To get notified of the next upload .click that bell and subscribe..
Big thank you to Bryan G4BZU and Dameon Hill..
also www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/.... (Frank N4SPP)
Cheers
Mike M0MSN
Other channels you may like:
G5TM: / @timg5tm941
Ianxfs: / ianxfs
The Radio Prepper: / radioprepper
TechMinds: / techmindsofficial
ZL1BQD - Roly: / @zl1bqdroly
Matt Dixon: / @mattdixon5299
DX Commander: / channel - Věda a technologie
9a2yg odlično odrađen posao radim i ja sa takvom antenom .ja sam sve spojeve lemio sa srebrom . odlično i veliki 73!!!!
I love to watch a craftsman work. This is an AWESOME build, thanks for showing us in detail what it took.
👍
That was my *_exact_* comment to my YL wife as we watched together -- here's me: "Honey, look how nicely the solder flows into the joints -- not too much, not too little -- and certainly not like the rubbish on our old hot water heater we had replaced a couple of months ago. Her: "That's nice dear."
Brilliant build! I loved watching him bend the copper pipe. Made it look so simple. Thanks for the vid!
Glad you liked it!
This is true craftsmanship. The lack of a shaky camera is much appreciated. I'm interested to see the second part of this nice antenna.
😁
Great video and music, excellent idea, can't wait for part 2. 73's
Thanks!
Outstanding video Mike.... looking forward to the update. 73s
Thanks 👍
Nicely done Mike! One of the best antenna building vids I have seen so far. Magnetic loop are just fantastic. Like to have one of my own someday,yeah someday. There is something enigmatic about them. So in that point of view, I think music here really serve it's purpose. Like wizard doing [her/his/it] cookings. Magical!! Cheers!!
Thanks Kim. :)
Brilliant video, can't wait to see part 2 :)
Thanks! 😀
That is a fine piece of design and a truly craftsmanlike execution. Well done.
👍👍
Very good craftsman skills, state of the art antenna, thanx for the video, 73!
Many thanks!
All I can say Mike is Impressive in both design and execution. Well done ! 73 Joe
Thanks Joseph
A Work of Art.... Congratulations
Super nice make! Thx for sharing!
Nice build, I’m gonna make one of these for myself now. Lol for anyone else interested, here are a few tips (from a UA steam fitter) if the piping seems intimidating. This gentleman did a fantastic job by the way, especially his soldering, not over burnt and you can see the metal fill the whole cup, guarantee there’s no voids. You can use the three line method (step, advance, and setback) that would save time, and material by making it one single piece. You can actually then mark out each bend in advance, by knowing the length of the step between each bend, and setback after all the bends to you cut line. Now, the two joints which break down into the trombone capacitors being your two soldered joints. You can keep your piece level during the bend by taping a level two your control length, and another level taped to your bender. Try to always bend off of a square surface and then you will have stability, and more precision during your builds. If you choose to square by sight, always square by aligning your control length with a squared object in you field of vision. First time solderers, the metal follows the heat, to prevent voids heat from the bottom up (as heat travels up) just “seeing a metal cap around the top does not and should not be used as confirmation of a complete joint (the only real way is to break it open and check and then practice the technique until you know what your are looking for/at) a cap is only truly necessary for a “medgas” job (fuck that) or when you are brazing which is usually only for high pressure lines, and would be extremely overkill for a job like this, and a waste of gas. Thank you Mike, excellent video, and project. That’s all I got guys, wear all your PPE, and be safe.
thanks
I built one in a similar manner.. mine failed after about 30 watts as the plastic in the piston capacitor heated up. I got my Father to help me solder it, both of had burned hands from it..I did work a number of stations portable with it on 20.. . I had one circumstances where running a cheap cb linear on 10FM my coax went up in smoke and caught 🔥 fire.. I started my HF life with a 5RV and then a big single magnetic copper loop.. for 40/80, it was always 2s points down on rx.. but such low noise.. best aerial I have had.. .. loved the video..
Thanks 👍
Nice to see a craftsman at work. Hats off to all those involved. Great project.
Thanks 👍
Superb Project
Amazing bending skills and torchwork by your friend.
Wow! Very nice piece of work for all involved. Quite impressive. Very encouraging.
Thank you! Cheers!
Amazing! Far beyond the scope of 99% of us, but fantastic to watch
Thanks Tim, anyone can have a go. :)
outstanding artist of copper piping construction
Great craftmanship. Thank you for sharing this work of art.
My pleasure!
Wasn't paying close attention to the title, and watched this whole thing not knowing it was only Part 1 of 2, and Part 2 ain't out yet. My heart ACHES to see Part 2!
Keep the faith Kelvin......lol
Nice Build Tim.
Very interesting, thanks for the video, look forward to the follow up :-)
Thanks for watching!
Excellent build. Looking forward to seeing how it performs.
Thanks 👍
Great video mate. Looking forward to seeing how this performs. Love the trombone capacitor, brilliant..... cheers
Thanks 👍 Roly. speak soon :)
An excellent tutorial. Thank you!
You're very welcome!
terrific job Micke thanks 73 from kb2uew
Brilliant !
Well done on making your loop, excellent antenna for restricted plots. Had some great contacts on my home made one. Look forward to seeing how it performs on air ? Mine has a variable air capacitor which will do around 50 watts. Thanks for the video, 73's M6APJ Andy.
Thanks 👍
Great project Mike 👏👏👏
Thanks 👍
Excellent tutorial . Possibly my winter project based in your experience ... 73 de CT1DM
Inspiring. I may have to give this a go. Also, your friend is also a Knipex fan. Well done. :)
That is awesome 👌 I do like a bit of pipe bending
Me too!
Mike, This is "EXCELLENT", excellent idea, excellent execution by Dameon, excellent camerawork...and I am sure it will finish up with an excellent outcome... oh and an excellent choice of music... very mesmorising... all in all a EXCELLENT bit of content... thank you... cheers
Thank you very much!
Perfect...👏👏👏👏👏👏
Great presentation Mike. We were there looking over your shoulder. You can't get better than that. Thank you. 73 CHRIS G7OGX
Cheers Chris
Radio plumbing! Good idea to get a pro to build this. The mag loops some ham amateurs build are often horrid looking (and probably a misuse of good copper!). Love the threaded rod adjustable cap!
Thanks 👍
Very well done video!
Thank you very much :)
Awesome vid! but I agree with some of the others. Creepy music. That being said, I built a mag loop and I’m incredibly envious of what you all have made!
lol it's pretty hard to find non-copyrighted music that's not the stuff people use for their dogs and cats antics -- those drive me crazy! Actually it's kind of soothing -- well -- not irritating at least.
Excellent video and the background music is so relaxing... I missed most of the video, I'll make another coffee and try again, could change the title to "Make a magnetic Loop Antenna while you sleep", thanks Mike, for the video and the nap.
Been looking forward to this one :-) Next thing will be an encoder on the motor & PLC/arduino control for various bands ;-)
Just starting a similar project myself, using Pi and a stepper motor to an air spaced rotary capacitor...
That would be cool!
Nicely done sir... Nicely done :)... 73!
Many thanks!
Great project. Good luck with it and hope you will have outstanding results. Will be looking forward to part 2. 73 K5ZRR
Thanks 👍
Great video. I can't wait to see how it works. The music makes me feel like somebody is is sneaking up to murder him with an axe though.
lol
Ominous indeed!
Superb video Mike 73
Many thanks Tim.
Hi Mike,
Nice video on the build. Refrigeration copper tubing is soft and able to be formed into a circle, but does need a frame for support. I have 40 ft. of 3/4" refrigeration tubing and a 20-1000 pf vacuum variable to hopefully make into a magloop one day. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Hi Don
Pretty cool. I do wonder about coupling from the trombone to the threaded rod at the loop's highest voltage potential point.
It's absolutely fantastic, but I really liked the background music!
Glad you like it!
Bravo! Bravo! I loved your video on this wonderful Mag Loop Antenna. I've built a couple in the past but nothing like this. You make it look like a walk in the park with the trombone
slide capacitor. You made me a subscriber. Thanks so much for sharing. :-) The back ground music reminds me of the Fourth Dimension, don't ask me how I know, I just do. lol
Gwen - K6GRH
Questo uomo è un vero genio
What a beautiful antenna. The copper pipe bender/solderer is an artist. I will probably try to transfer the things I learned here to easier to handle materials, like e.g. RG213 coax, instead of copper tubing. Did you also try how Teflon baking paper works out as a dielectric when building the capacitor? It could also be build flat (e.g. from raw PCBs), not tubular. So.... a lot of room for experimentation. That's what we radio hams love. Big thumbs up for all the inspiration!!!
Some great ideas here 👍
Mike, been waiting for this for long time, great work. Looking for an antenna for apartment dwelling, with a big balcony. Thanks again, de Ei2iP
Thanks! 😀
Looking forward to learning what the bandwidth is...
Top marks to the solderer.
Thanks 👍
Very interesting, I love magnetic loop antennas, I have one for 40m with 3/4 copper tubes and 2.7 meters in diameter and it works very well. Your job is very well done, congratulations, and when does part 2 come out? Thank you AD4CQ.
soon.. :).
A lovely bit of engineering. Certainly good for proof of concept. Depending on it's physical position, the ambient/working temperature and its application, one might like to refer to 'microwave materials and fabrication techniques', third edition, by Thomas S. Laverghetta, isbn 1-58053-064-8, page 38, if one is getting any obscure problems in the 'transition region' of the dielectric at 19°C (68.2°F) where there is a drop in dielectric constant at that point.
I only mention this because many years ago I was working in an area which was meant to held at 20°C; unfortunately there was a large sliding door which was opened frequently. Some 'special' thick long 'PTFE' cables had been purchased for the task. After finding the specifications of the cables, I was amazed to see how the phase galloped at 19°C.
I don’t care if it works or not. Looks brilliant! 👍🏻 (...I’m sure it will work mind...😁)
oh It works.. :)
I like it
What a great video Mike.
So relaxing and satisfying to watch.
Amazing work by Dameon too.
Can't wait for part 2.
Can you please let me know what music that was in the background.
I look forward to seeing more videos from you.
73 de Kevin, VK4KK
Music : Spirit of Fire - Jesse Gallagher. R-free from YT
@@mike-M0MSN Thanks mate.
my next procjet is this antenna Thanks mike Form germany DG1XT thom
CONGRULATİON İT WAS BEE WONDERFUL capacite tronbon thinging is goog Have a lot of QSO TA3BS FROM TURKEY
très très beau travaille merci et 73 qro
A thing of beauty 👍🇬🇧❤️thanks Mike, and chums.
Cheers
Thanks for making the video I enjoyed it, I always wonder if you get all tidied up before your wife gets back lol
I always clean up behind myself or face the eyes of hell... LOL
45 deg copper elbows (soldered) would also work for those who may not have a pipe bender .
Wow!
Good job, beautiful video, nice music. Where is the part 2 ?
Working on it!
I don't have that kind of patience, I would have bought the 45 degree elbows! Haha
Muito bom perfect
Thanks! 😀
Mike what a great video! Can’t wait for part 2. We’ll done... music too.😁👍
Thanks 👍
Brilliant!! AE0CW
Beautimus!
I was thinking... make some extra holes in the central board to reduce windage for rotating - as its directional off either edge, though I guess having it fixed would be the same as having a horizontal dipole that you can't turn - hopefully the directionality is where you want it.
Thanks 👍
Hi Mike thanks for the video. I'm thinking about making one myself. I actually made a 22mm copper pipe roller and made one 3m long loop with it so far. If you need one made let me know. Take care M0JCZ
Sounds great. I will keep that in mind.. :)
Captivating and inspirational, thanks for sharing! 73 de 2E0VRI
Glad you enjoyed it!
I just found your channel and had to sub. Great build video! I have to ask, what is that music you added to the video? I could listen to it all night.
This is indeed excellent workmanship but the electromagnetic issue around this structure is very complex indeed. Forgetting about the loop itself, and accentuating on the trombone capacitor itself, here are a few points to ponder about and to consider.
1. The existing trombone shape may be looked upon as a long transmission parallel line with two parts. The upper parallel part and the lower parallel part with a short circuit at the end. These two parts are connected by two variables variable capacitors at their midpoint, not to mention the inductance and other capacitors interlinking the pipes.
2. The parallel upper tubes form a high-value capacitor on their linked outside surfaces
3. Their inner linked part with the lower short circuit tube does form a variable capacitor but it is not that large compared to the capacitor formed by the outer part of the upper parallel tubes. The variable value is not that high.
4. As far as the inductance of the " trombone capacitor" the fact that the tubes are running parallel to each other one might be tempted to say that they imitate the structure of a noninductive resistor but it is not as simple as that in this case.
5 I conclude that this is a very complex capacitor and one needs to consider the fixed capacitor formed by the parallel parts of the outer surfaces of the upper two tubes.
6. Since at such high frequencies the outer and inner capacitors will be shunting the " displacement current" through them, then the lower short-circuited parallel part will not be carrying much conduction current, but it is certainly not as simple as that.
While I congratulate the builder of this antenna loop tuned by this trombone capacitor, I would not like to be the person who models this distributed unit mathematically in a precise manner and I would conclude that no person on earth has as yet produced the mathematical analysis of such a trombone capacitor. The distributed elements of this structure and the philosophy behind it contain a depth that I am truly appreciating, but would only test the results by a practical experiment as far as what capacity it contains rather than finding its true mathematical equation to conclude on an analytical calculation.
It is certainly not a case of assuming that the value of the trombone capacitor is proportional to the area and inversely proportional to the distance between the pipes in question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is one of those situations in electromagnetic engineering where the structure is simple to construct but not so simple to analyze as it truly stands!
Well done on the concept and workmanship, but this will take me a few years to depict its true varied details relative to the whole contents within the trombone capacitor!! Perhaps it is one of those situations where the philosophy is, " Do not think too much about it, make it and use it as it does work, and do not bother to understand all its complex electromagnetic depth!"
The coupling loop is also very interesting with effectively two small loops linked by a distributed capacitor within the cable, feeding that low impedance point of the larger magnetic loop.
8:00 sounds like a snooker commentator
haha brilliant
That’s great with the bending. I would have just soldered the joints. I get what you did later. You just added another trombone capacitor in parallel to get 40.
Yep.. the less joints the better.
Great work guys. Very restful to watch, between the very zen music & watching a craftsman at work.
What sort of capacitance and voltage handing are you getting with the trombone cap?
I have a bunch of long lead-screw from 3D punters & CNC routers, but find it hard to remove the pulse noise from using stepper motors to turn them.
Sorry Gerry, I forgot to measure the Capacitance but around 130pf and up to 4000kV maybe higher ???
@@mike-M0MSN What RF power level are you using? I enjoyed this first part. Now for #2.
Top 100 % Hugo
A lot of work that some wouldn't be able to do themselves though. I could do it all except the lathe work, but I know a man who can. I saw another one being made, but I can't remember what he used for insulators, but I remember he didn't use a lathe, so he must have got something to fit, otherwise it was much the same construction. However, that does look a bit tidier and when it comes to the missis that is all important. I look forward to see how well it performs. How much power is he talking about before he is talking about flashover? Well done Mike and the others.
No lathe needed Bob, I have managed to put 150Watts without issue..... so far so good.. :)
@@mike-M0MSN I thought your mate did the insulators on a lathe?
@@BoB4jjjjs On the original prototype, but a substitute has been found.. :)
Soo Cool, Mayeb Mesh Inside Of It?
Hello Mike and great on the build.
I've found that making a wooden former to work the copper into a perfect circle isn't to much of a job and is actually much easier than you think.
I've managed to build a 2 meter diameter loop antenna for top band and its perfectly circular in shape.
It was basically an old cupboard door with the partial circumference of the 2 meter circle cut on one edge. I placed flat pieces of scrap wood at about six inch intervals against both edges of this flat board and after clamping the board to my work bench and forming a small clamping loop to hold the pipe in place against one side of the former edge, I could work the copper pipe around the former which slowly bent the circular shape of the loop into the copper two foot at a time.
There are a few example videos on the web that show how its done for making plastic polytunnel tents for gardeners.
They use varies different method to bend the pipes but I made a wooden former to do the job.
There is a special and probably expensive metal former that some use but its easily replicated with an old kitchen cupboard door and some scrap wood.
It's a perfect circle. I made one for the 6 meter band to but that's a sod to tune in.
If I can find your details I shall try and get you some pictures of the make shift former. It does make a great looking circular antenna loop. Tunes up well on 160M.
Take a look at how these chaps do it with the metal former. czcams.com/video/pWD4UfANhc0/video.html
All the very best, James.
Thanks for the tip I will have to give it a go.. :)
Great video. I'm building a similar loop and have decided to try the trombone capacitors. Do you have any idea how much voltage they can stand up to? What is the most power you've used with them (without smoke or flames :-)) Thanks again and great job on the video.
The max Wattage I have put into them is 200Watts with no issues
This is really cool, how many watts can you run on it?
👍🥇
Good work on those magnetic loops! How is the Q? I would expect it to be pretty high. Back in the 1990s I built one for receiving the LF range, and was quite pleased.
see part two, but Q was OK
What frequencies is this for ?? Sorry I had to watch with no volume , but I’ll watch again later and part two . Looks beautiful!!
20m and 40m bands.. 👍👍
One things for sure,you don’t do things by halves do ya👍off to pt 2 now,got to ask what’s the music
ah Yes please read the comments you will find it somewhere.
@@mike-M0MSN found it cheers,bit spooky mind given the date👻bit of a question for ya,how would I go about making a vertical for 11m
@@mike-M0MSN ignore the question,just found your 5/8 gainmaster vid,cheers 👍🏼
I haven't tried it yet, but I've always wondered if using a hula hoop with a copper cable snaked through it might be worth trying. As long as it would be a good quality hula hoop with good structural integrity,
Should work.. :)
I enjoyed the video and craft skills on show. I am a bit worried about conduit as the dielectric. Aren't those made from PVC? I don't think that is a good choice as far as losses and RF heating are concerned
heating. PTFE, Polystyrene, glass or a ceramic would all be excellent choices. Still fingers crossed and look forward to seeing the results.
You may be right Davey, but that's what experiments are all about.. :)
This kool, but, haw work
yes.. :)
Do the solder joints need to be air tight or are they basically just to hold the pipes together?
Just hold the system together (but they are air tight)
Mike with all those solder joints are you not concerned over IxR drop in the loop? Wouldn't a continous run of soft rolled copper tubing be a better choice?
WA6ATI
Dennis
Hi Dennis, yep a single roll of soft copper would have been nice, but not readerly available. :(
Put in part 2 video i meen how to calculated swr ? This is vu3 ihm from andhra pradesh in india dear old man....
will do..
For 160m, you'd need tuba capacitors ;-)
Yep, maybe next purchase..:)
simplesmente sensacional, poderia colocar as medidas dos tubos, diametros.73 PY1FI
Measure twice, cut once ;-)
I did that and my antenna was twice the size.
😂