Mechanical Guitar String Sustainer - Gjrone Ep1
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Mechanical sustainer for my multi-string, self-oscillating instrument I'm going to build for the Freestyle competition of the Great Guitar Build Off 2022
I call it: Gjrone
It will be a 2 or 3 octave, 20+ stringed self-sustaining instrument capable of haunting tones and beautiful ambient pads.
Make a single-string pickup from a relay:
• Crazy Experiment! Use ...
00:00 - Intro and Description of Gjrone
5:16 - Mechanical Sustainer Construction Analysis
10:55 - Outro
12:20 - Gjrone sound demos
Affiliate links:
DC Motor Project kit:
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Electromagnetic Relay
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Tuning Pins for Harp
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All Music Composed by Mark Gutierrez
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Great Guitar Build Off 2022
GGBO22
GGBO 2022
DIY Sustainer - Jak na to + styl
Cool idea, very trance esq maybe have them in the 528hz range (think that's right) and allegedly would help you heal and be all Zen 🙏
When you said 26 inline, I had already been thinking 13 like a Japanese koto. Awesome idea you mad scientist! I'm excited to see where this goes.
What might be fun would be a mechanical linkage so you could hand spin the disk like a hurdy gurdy.
Like, some gears, leading to a crank where the jazzmaster has their circuitry!
wow. that is a crazy cool idea.
Hey man, if you wanted to have more control over the speed of the magnet disc, rather than using a pot you should use a PWM controller. That would allow you to have a range of different speeds from barely spinning all the way up to max speed!
You are absolutely correct. PWM, stepper motors, driver boards, arduinos... I looked into all them. I just never pulled the trigger. Greater control of the speed would very nice.
@@MarkGutierrez fair enough! Sounds fantastic, look forward to seeing more :)
Incorporating PWM would also enable the use of frequency specific presets. This would allow the use of a MIDI controller to alter the pitch of the magnetic oscillation rotary exciter. This would eliminate the need for multiple exciters per string.
I know this started as a "Guitar" project, but guitars have 6 (or more) strings. There's no practical way to use rotating wheels of large enough diameter to oscillate 6+ strings individually (maybe use one, with a much larger diameter rotating wheel?). Even if you could stagger them, each exciter will effect 1 or 2 adjacent strings.
I'm not familiar with the guitar contest you're entering, but in the real world, there's no practical way for the guitar player to control the frequency band specific filter. Even if you used a MIDI pickup. I'm an electronics guy who happens to be a guitarist, but unless your electronics can read the guitarist's mind, I can't think of any practical way to make the mixer electronically controlled by the guitarist who is already busy using both hands. I understand that you're doing this as a "proof of concept" prototype. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something in your design? If so, please let me know.
Fricking. Awesome. Concept! Love the sounds it makes... can't wait to see how it turns out... way to innovate dude!
Brings to mind the old hammond tone wheel organs. Tone wheels all turned all the time. Pressing keys sent a particular tone to the amp/filter. Seems like you are on your way to a (possibly programable) string organ.
Again, cheers and well done.
why not use 1 magnet and some counter balancing weights?
woah WHAT? cant wait to see this one
oh man! this is unique idea! love it!
oh man..ones again very inspiring and innovative. Thanks for sharing. Cant wait to see the final results with this proof of concept
Thank you! I needed to hear this. I have to build over 20 of these over the course of the next few months. It's not going to be easy or fun. But the end result should be epic.
Well, you got this..! i'm sure you'll manage :)) Have you ever considered using a 3D printer for working out new ideas such as this? Especially someone creative like yourself would really benefit i think..
cheers
Ever the visionary! I love this idea and am excited to see what comes of it.
This is awesome!
Cool sounds!
Crazy idea but I love it! I'm the one who tried to make transducer DIY sustainer and it even works, but this idea is super! Gonna try it on my DIY monochord.
So sad you never built a 25 string version of it...
Amazing idea! Cant wait to see the final beast!
Sounds dope!
You answered all my questions Plus it sounds amazing ! thank you
Rediculously cool man can’t wait to see it done
So glad I found your channel! So cool
awesome
I love this kind of inventive work. ‘What if’ is one of the most creative questions you can ask. Waiting in anticipation for these videos. The sound will be amazing if that one string is anything to go by.
Right on man. Love this work.
I'm a tinkerer and recently got serious about music. I've been looking for a way to sustain bass notes indefinitely for ambient type stuff. This seems to be the best idea I've found after all my searching. I'll be using this idea as inspiration for my FrankenBass project. Brilliant stuff.
Nice droning sounds and really cool idea! Peace!
Interesting concept and looking forward to hearing it once you got it up and running
excellent outside the box thinking
f yeah, awesome concept!
very interesting !
Really cool project btw, kind of a modern hurdy gurdy, looking forward for the final concept 👍
Thanks! 👍
Holy moses. thats incredible :D
great idea with great ambient sound potential
Thanks for listening
You've some cool stuff
if you get the best sound from one magnet ,could you use one magnet and a counter weight that is non magnetic ? absolutely awesome work i love your idea i cant wait to hear the music you invent with this when its fully built
I wasn't able to find a counterweight with the same diameter and weight that was non-magnetic. It wasn't until later that I realized I could use one of those button batteries for watches.
you've successfully built a horror movie score machine and i love it!
Which makes it perfectly fitting that he'd be wearing a Nostromo jacket.
Great stuff, can’t wait to hear how this progresses. I’m guessing John Cale would love this
This is interesting, awesome, beautiful and elegant. I’m a guitar player but I can’t help but think how well this would transfer to piano, or harp
I WANT!
I thought of this concept while watching a video about how hurdy gurdies work, and thought immediately that there should be an electromagnetic bowing instrument with variable speed motors with either counterweights or multiple magnets, so I love to see you following through on that passing thought that many have probably had. It should sound great - I bailed at “moving parts!?!” but that obviously works if you want to build an instrument around it. The glass harmonica is another inspiration, as well as the Hammond B3 organ. Harmonically tuned string stimulators on one or more rods over multiple strings would apply the glass harmonica and B3 ideas to strings, and get complicated quickly like those instruments. I look forward to your future experiments!
I have a really similar idea to this for a keyboard. But instead of a rotating magnetic wheel I would use traditional electromagnetic sustainers for each individual string. There would be two modes, the first with every string vibrating (like yours) and each key would activate the respective pickup like an organ, and the second would work the other way around where all pickups are active and the keys would turn on each sustainer for a bow effect. I'm actually glad to see that I'm not the only one who has thought about this, because it means it's not impossible.
that's a cool idea. one reason why I abandoned this project is because once there are multiple strings being oscillated simultaneously, the ambient noise is incredibly loud. the individual pickups wouldn't capture the other strings but for the performer, the whole thing was pretty loud.
What a great idea for an instrument, really want to see how it turns out - kinda like a magnetic aeolian harp :)
Really cool idea. Sounds kind of like a really beautiful organic synth. If I were you, I’d integrate some kind of capo system (perhaps similar to the little levers used to capo different notes on extensions on upright basses) for each string, so you’re not just locked into one scale. Very neat. Subscribed, and looking forward to seeing where you go with this!
I like the capo idea. That may end up in the final design. Thanks!
You could have used just one magnet and then counterbalance with a weight…
Interesting project, indeed!
was about to say same thing. jut use a counterweight on one side
build it like a pedal steel, and play it using a slide to open up more options!
I have been trying to figure a way of making a mechanical e-bow but could not figure out the right type of material to use for the spinning wheel which would be what contacts the strings in order to, "bow" them but now I see maybe trying a different design with magnets maybe! Thanks so much for the inspiration!
Can replace the three magnets with something that has the same weight. Then you get the best sound and stability
That would work
It would be really cool to see this in a guitar format. Instead of pots to control speed and volume for each string, you put mixer-like sliders to get expressive with, like in diskobebe's sustainer guitars, only in a mechanical version, with excitation speed control.
This is such a cool idea. It reminds me of how a Mellotron or early geared Hammond organ in that something is always happening and keying it just brings a pickup or head into play. In fact, if you got the width down, you could possibly use keys to bring the pickup nearer the strings?
Also, I'm interested how the frequency of the oscillation affects the sound?
You said one magnet works the best for sustain. Did you try putting one magnet and three non magnetic parts of similar weight to make it stable? Cool idea though
I thought about counteracting the weight of one magnet with a watch battery but I haven't tested it yet.
yeah that'd work, or just one mag and one counterweight
This is fantastic! I was in a similar path some time ago, trying to figure it out around a zither-like instrument. I wanted to make it chromatic, with motors or a belt rubbing all the strings constantly, and single pickups behind each string being activated by key presses. I wanted to find an old broken keyboard to donate the keybed, or make one with light sensors per-string/pickup, so when you cover those you gradually get signal fading in from the pickups, like some sort of organ/pad-machine based on droning strings. I'll follow this project closely, good luck!
That sounds like a sweet instrument. What happened? Did you ever build it?
@@MarkGutierrez not yet, I haven't found a donor and sourcing components is a bit difficult and expensive in here. I've been also really interested in ribbon mics with neodymium magnets, maybe seeing your ideas here for the sustainer and the single pickups is a good excuse to arrange the logistics for importing some stuff and give it a try to some projects currently in stand-by ;)
You could use one magnet and a steel slug as a counter weight in the sustainer wheel. Just an idea...
Looks super practical too lol
Ya reinvented the gizmotron electronically, cool!
Yes ! is was thinking that but couldn’t remember the name invented by someone in 10cc
@@dirkda2451 they are reissued, and very cool to play with
What if you could implement arduino/midi to control the automation of the volume sliders etc. and have the notes triggered with an external midi keyboard? Cool idea you've got there.
I thought of that too. I think I may try to go all analog. Thinking of building an analog sequencer to trigger some of the strings.
Try to mount the motor so its axis is off set a string. In this case two opposite magnets won’t interact with a string at a same moment of time
Could you have a mixing board with as many channels as you had strings, and figure a way to control the power to each rotating unit with its own fader? I saw you motion with your hands like you were at a mixing console, but I wasn’t sure if that’s what you were trying to convey 😄
Make spinning wheel the size of say a sound hole of an acoustic. Wouldn’t all six strings vibrate? One could palm mute unwanted string sound and still fret notes/chords.
I have been thinking about some sort of physical sustainer for some time. This is a brilliant idea. Maybe I’ll get mine going? Maybe we can have a shootout. 😀
Not a shootout. A symphony.
@@MarkGutierrez agreed!!!
Have you tried to install the magnets on the perimeter of the disc and using it vertically over the string? I wonder if it would be possible to make a mechanical e-bow.
Oooh! And you could use an Arduino to control on/off right on the instrument. You can easily program e.g chords by pressing one button. This would omit the need for a mixer. I can imagine the beauty of this instrument, but i cannot fathom the complexity of the build
I love arduinos. For this build reducing complexity and cost is essential. So I'm going to try to go analog for everything.
@@MarkGutierrez Yeah, I could have guessed that you’re into arduinos 😂. I’m sorry if you find my comments annoying, you have probably planned this for longer than the duration of your video 😅. Looking forward to seeing this build, it’s like a new instrument type!
Just had a thought about how something like this could be achieved in a way that's potentially a bit less complicated and would be capable of being turned on and off more quickly.
What if, instead of having the magnetic element spinning around an axis, you instead mounted it to a haptic vibration motor?
My thoughts are that you could employ the same principle by feeding waveforms into the haptic driver, causing the magnet to then apply those oscillations to the string. It's a bit like a mixture between a sustainer pickup and a ring modulator, but mechanical rather than electronic. In theory you could do a lot of similar things to what you've demonstrated here, but in a way that might be a bit easier to keep within a manageable scale, such as retrofitting to an existing instrument.
I'm guessing that it would probably be better to use a piezoelectric driver for the benefit of keeping the magnet from interfering with the motor. It might make a bunch of horrible noises because it's not far off from being one of those old internal PC buzzers from back in the day, but it wouldn't be picked up if you're using a regular guitar pickup to capture the string vibration (so long as they're far enough apart).
try to record it in 26 track in PC and set each track to a different pitch or notes. add effects like contour wah. add midi controller. maybe it work.
I love the idea you are describing! I imagine that the closest instrument around now would be a theramin. Have you tried using a guitar slide on the string while sustaining to make a melody?
Yes, I've used a lapsteel slide. It sounds pretty cool. I have a demo of that in my Relay Pickup video.
Do you think this would work on something like a kalimba? I wonder if the magnet would be strong enough to vibrate the tines, perhaps if longer and thinner than a typical kalimba. Maybe with a custom set of 3 tines per motor, you would end up with chords.
What if you just use an electromagnet and feed the output into it, in theory you could easily get it to resonate in the natural frequency of the string
I’d buy one.
I'll have 26 of them by the end of the project. I won't need them after.
Some of the people who have already asked questions about this device would be interested in the Gizmotron, invented by Kevin Godley of 10cc in the 1970s
Cool drone machine. I suppose that it will be cheaper to use only one magnet and any metal as a counterweight. If souds better with one magnet better yet. I imagine it would be cool to actually make an electric piano with this idea. Maybe you sould the Dean Coyle’s diy electric piano project.
The only issue was trying to find a counterweight with the same diameter and mass.
You could also just regulate the motor speed with a microcontroller and a transistor.
Great idea! Just rambling here, but could you use a smaller «rotator» with one magnet and a counter weight? So small that it just passes the string? Also, what about using a piezo bridge with individual string outputs? Perhaps you get to this in the vid, but it hasn’t finished yet 😂
Yes. A counterweight would work nicely as long it its the same mass and non-magnetic. At the time I couldn't think of anything to use as a counterweight.
Yours has to be one of the most unusual GGBO build, but a very interesting one nevertheless. BTW, I know you said one magnet sounds best, but you needed two for balance (and ended up using four), but when you used two, did the polarity make a difference (N+N vs N+S upwards)?
Polarity never crossed my mind. I wish I had thought of that!
And moving the magnets along the string should change the sound too...
6:45 For the balance of the wheel, couldn't we use a magnet on one side and some heavy thing like a bolt on the other side?
Also, did you put the 4 magnets in the same orientation, or did you alternate N and S ? Or doesn't it matter at all?
how do you decide on the scale length of the instrument and string gauges? Is there a preference for the instrument register? If all the strings would be tuned to a chord than you can use slide to make easy chord changes
Each drone instrument will be a unique scale length and string gauge. I will have some with bass strings and some very short scale lengths for higher pitches.
Inspiring stuff, Mark! I built one just now!
Seems like the frequency of the magnets spinning needs to be dialed in to the fundamental or harmonic of the string, so the speed control is necessary. I had great luck with a PWM. I also found that an antinode around 4/11 (aka 7/11) of the string length worked well.
I want to credit you if I feature it anywhere. Is it called the Gjrone or is that the guitar that this went in? Let me know if you want to be credited a certain way!
I'm thinking it's a magnet *actuator* rather than a sustainer, just because it's not feedback-based.
Super cool you had success with it. No need for any type of credit. It's just an idea and ideas are free to use. Have fun!
@@MarkGutierrez Still may give you a shout out. Keep the creativity flowing - I'll pay it forward then!
@@benhjertmann what happened with your version? Would be interested to see a demo video on your page 😊
Didn’t read all previous 142 comments so excuse me if this has been mentioned already. You said the sustain sounded best with 1 magnet but that it wasn’t practical because it was unbalanced so you added another magnet on the other side. Maybe I missed something but why wouldn’t you just place a non magnetic disk of the same weight opposite your single magnet? Sorry if I’m missing something, this seems too simple to have been overlooked.
did you reverse polarity of the magnets?
Clever idea. No I didn't reverse the polarity but that sounds like an excellent idea.
If 1 magnet works the best you should do that and just put plain nonmagnetic metal circles in the other spots
I'll definitely try it. I'm building 26 of them so plenty of room for experimentation.
Why not 1 magnet and some other material on other side to offset the weight difference?
That would definitely work.
Does the motor have to be spinning a specific speed to keep the sound of the note of the string in tune ?
The pitch the string will resonate at is set by its length, tension, and material only.
The speed of the motor will affect how *efficiently* the energy is transferred from the motor to the string, and might affect the balance of harmonics, which is why you hear what might sound like different notes in a chord being emphasized
Well said. Spot on.
You should try 3 magnets in the circle spaced out evenly like a radiation symbol or the Egyptian Schist Disc
Did this come to fruition? I've been thinking about something today, bit like a Bulbul Tarang. So, 3 strings in C, 3 octaves, over a 30" scale, keys pressing down onto a fretboard. But I want a driver so the strings vibrate constantly. Was thinking of an electromagnetic sustainer/exciter but this could work.........
The single mechanical sustainer idea worked fine. As soon as I made 12 of these the noise from the motors was overwhelming as they all spun simultaneously. I chalked it up to a failure.
You just found one way it didn't work!
Man, if the problem with one magnet is balance, why don't you counter balance with a non magnet weight????
a mechanical theramin doing chords. you may be on to something!
but will you be able to play a song when you finish?
The song is the goal.
Piano type keyboard that controls the volume/magnet speed or power of each string….
ANALOG
Could you not just use one magnet and something else with the same mass?
Yes! I thought of using those button batteries for watches. They are roughly the same diameter and mass and non-magnetic.
It is super nice, i am realy inspired from your work !
There is the same technic on the Duofluctus instrument by Sergey Filatov.
But after trying 6 models in an exhibition by Tarek Atoui.
Maybe the Duofluctus was badly adjusted, but some didn't work, and some did. But on some models, it was very difficult to find the right point to make the string resonate.
And the strings would untwist when you touched another one, but maybe it was badly installed.
So for the time being, I'm going to make a model, a string and a motor.
The link, from Duofluctus by Sergey Filatov if you're interested.
czcams.com/video/m3QQ0WONCWk/video.html
thats a weird looking didgeridoo
Turn this into a pedal...
Seriously considering this. Fantastic idea!
Dumbest idea I ever heard. Mechanical synth imitator. That's like building a machine to turn on another machine, but you have to turn on the first machine so it can turn on the other one for you.
Congratulations! You've just invented the electronic relay device! Now your car will be fully functioning! (to be clear, my comment was directed at Tim Hallas - who just described how many systems worked but seems to think it a redundant. I love this musical machine - I think it is a new 'spin' on things and I'd love to build one - thsnkyou for sharing it with the masses!¬
You literally described what every sustainer does, mechanical or not.
and don’t criticize what you can’t understand or to use another line from the same tune Your old road is rapidly agin’ Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend a hand…..
@@theelectricsexmachine7502 understanding it is the easy part. prove to me that it does something new, or better. You can't .
@@timhallas4275 I’ve seen you comment on plenty of other peoples vids but have noticed you’ve never had anything positive or remotely complimentary on any of them.
What if you just use an electromagnet and feed the output into it, in theory you could easily get it to resonate in the natural frequency of the string
Feeding the output to the string is how many DIY sustainers typically work. I was trying something different that was in my opinion, much easier to build.
@@MarkGutierrez yeah it’s not the same as what you’re making but it would be more programmable and could be installed on a guitar, you wouldn’t have to feed the output in ether and it could also mute strings too