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Why was I threatened by Herschel Infrared?
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- This all began with this video : • Infrared Heating Panel...
Am I being overly sensitive to this e-mail from Herschel?
Is this an acceptable way for businesses to act in 2024?
Should we require greater ethics, especially from those brands purporting to help us move to a more sustainable society?
Misleading claims are posted here: www.herschel-i...
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Use this link to sign up to Octopus Energy for a free £50 - share.octopus....
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My system :
Vaillant Arotherm Plus 7kW
200L UniStor Cylinder
45L Buffer tank
140sqM Detached 1997 built house
10mm copper microbore pipework downstairs
Installed by British Gas in November 2023
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I was seriously considering Herschel for heating, your video gave me concern for a much deeper review, that still left me with the idea that their products may still be useful in certain circumstances. This response (a disgrace in my view) means I will never recommend and certainly not consider them at all. Thank you for posting and if you can please keep on creating your unbiased views.
Thank you for your support.
Sorry to hear about this. We need independent reviewers like you to help us cut through the marketing BS that fills the industry. Thank you for your courage and I hope this matter is closed for you without further agro.
Thanks for the support!
Well done for posting this video. If the worst happens (unlikely I think) , perhaps you'll need to join forces with the BlackBeltBarrister on CZcams.
I think BBB would be interested in this matter, regardless of any further action by Herschel. He has already posted a video about unjustified legal threats for using company logo / name.
bite us Hershel ..... we are watching
If they'd defended their claims they could improve their brand's standing. Firing lawyer threats at small sincere channels is a bad bad look!
Sorry you've had to go through this...
I agree.
Thanks for the support!
Infra-red electric heating is a 19th century technology, they had it on the Titanic.
I see there was a strict no waffling policy enforced on this video!
Bad form from Hershel there in my opinion. I would suspect that they could only copyright strike the video itself but one could argue that it was fair use of public domain items for the specific purpose of providing a reasoned critique.
Thanks for the support!
I was considering them for my new home. But if this is how they behave then fuck em. Taking my business elsewhere. A PR disasterclass 👏
Please put wet heating in, total nightmare to retrofit.
PR disasterclass, I like that phrase!
Outrageous. Someone at that Company should be reviewing their policy on how they interact with poor product reviews. If they are smart, they will consider their damage limitation options. Perception is everything, and this is a horrendous own goal. I would expect a more conciliatory response from them by lunchtime Monday, that's if they have any commercial sense. Your approach is one of the most refreshing, raise a topic, put your views out there, and then have a follow-up on the views of the community. Collective, creative debate....they could have been a part of this process. Missed opportunity. Keep at it.
Thank you for the support!
If it was positive they wouldn't have had any issues, the problem they have is they weren't happy with having the truth lad out , infrared might work for some like warehouse etc by residental it doesn't make sense in my opinion.
I agree 👍
I bought £6,000 worth of Herschel panels via CEF in 2023 for a whole house system. Worst decision I've ever made. Far too costly to run for a whole house situation ～ 15 megawatt hours a year. Now having a hard time selling them
I am now in the process of installing a heat pump which will be approx 25% of this. And as an added bonus, it will heat my hot water too.
I would love to know more about this! Would you be willing to chat over zoom for a few minutes and maybe publish your story as a little case study on the channel?
Please make a video about this, these systems are mis-sold like crazy, should only be used in rooms with very low occupancy IMO
Take a look at GPLama being threatened by Peloton. He had a section on his channel called Peloton News. They threatened to have his channel removed if the didn’t stop using the name Peloton. Obviously Peloton is a company, but that is a generic cycling term and was being used in that context. Another example of a big company thinking they could bully the little guy.
I wrote a comment on that video and you replied. My experience of a small infrared heater was good because I want to heat a small area, but no way do l want to heat my whole house with IR. I don't like bullying tactics and this makes me wonder what that company has to hide. Sure, their company name could have been left out as the argument doesn't just apply to their product but now they are taking this stance, it taints them and their products.
Thanks for commenting again.
Sounds like Herschel had no reasonable response to your criticism of IR panels, or indeed the the majority of comments made on that video. If they'd made a response in the comments the chances are it would have been pulled apart by your viewers. However, they saw their logo in the thumbnail and that gave them an excuse to go after you, ignore the facts and nail you on a technicality instead; quite pathetic really.
This is typical bullying by big business. Big enough to bully, but not enough balls to explain the product efficiency claims. Given the refusal of their marketing guy to come on to your channel and clarify the claims (and in doing so promote the company and product), can we infer the claims are all indeed BS?
Should have replaced the logo with a portrait of the eponymous astronomer!
Thought it was those after I saw your IR panel vid.
Having looked into those I came to the same conclusion, in that they're situationally niche at best, and in every other scenario outmatched by all other alternatives
Agreed! 👍
Oh you've gone and shown their logo again, in the form of their letter which is even more fair use than before lol. Yeah fine to ask to remove the logo but not to threaten the channel! Haven't they heard of babs s and her effect?
I thought that too! Just highlights the hash Herschel have made of this whole thing. I for one would have loved to see them on the programme to explain their claims.
It's not like you can search by logo on youtube anyway. Poor form by Herschel. They owe you an apology for their behavior and need to learn a thing or two about social media...
Isn’t there an argument of fair use for critique? assume the news don’t have to ask permission
It seems you're right from the many comments suggesting this!
It's simple physics. No way infra can compare to a2a or a2w on a kw to kw level... I considered them for a fringe use case in a small space in an outside garden room but opted for a diesel heater instead. Yes I know. Not carbon friendly... but because it was the most realistic option. Infra is very fringe use case in my opinion.
Well I had been looking at replacing my gas central heating as a cheaper up front alternative to a heat pump with Herschel panels but think I will steer clear
I had a visit from Herschel sales people early on investigating options & was wholly unimpressed with approach, products & rather typical corporate attitudes. A dolly bird & pushy controller (tried anyway) but that’s limit of my experience. Ultimately products inferior is my main issue.
That's pretty disgraceful behaviour by Herschel, very similar to what's often done by the oil and gas industry - legal threats to silence & surpress conversation. It would have served them far better to work with you to help people understand where and why their products are good & get free publicity. Shame on them.
I agree! 👍
I watched the video about infrared , thought it was good information you gave us the people, sounds like an opinion is not allowed, if they thought their product was good they would be less sensitive, the truth hurts.
If I was thinking of getting some infrared panels, then, given this disgraceful response from Herschel, I would not be using that company. I have been a subscriber and huge fan of Fully Charged and Everything Electric from their early days, but they do sometimes enthuse about products without sometimes stating the obvious shortcomings of those products. Infrared panels are an example. They can never be as economical as a heat pump in terms of day to day use, because they can only ever be 10% efficient. Smart controls can help to reduce electricity usage, but once both types of heating are installed, heat pumps will always win. Infrared was competitive as far as installation costs are concerned until the grant for A2W heat pumps was increased and the likes of Octopus were giving very reasonable quotes.
All of that aside, for a company such as Herschel to threaten you in that way is distasteful, disappointing and disgraceful (I could probably add disgusting!).
I like (& subscribe) to your channel and I'm glad that you gave this threat the exposure it deserves. Keep up the great videos. I'm sure all of your subscribers will feel the same way.
Agreed!
Thanks for your support!
Some like the panels others don't I'm yet to try them, but I was thinking of going with a tester panel from Hershall but under the circumstances perhaps I will give them a miss, if they don't stand by their product it kinda throws up a lot of questions.
Yes it does!
You may add me to a now non purchaser of Herschel , I was only going to buy two but as a result of their approach they can expect a purchase elsewhere , no real affect on them but maybe they should think on .
My mum n dad had IR heating panels installed. They never use them...
Does not surprise me. Thanks for commenting!
For what reasons did your Mum and Dad stop using them? Were they costly to run? Were they poorly installed? Poorly controlled?
I'm interested to know, as I have had some installed and so far not had any major concerns about their ability to heat a room, running costs may be an issue that surfaces in time. So far my experience is that they are generally on for 20mins in any given hour when needed. They have not been on since end of March. I should mention that we have also increased insulation and improved air tightness and installed skylights to obtain some solar gain too, along with an MVHR whole house system. Solar PV and battery are planned and wading through the old double glazing type solar cowboys is tiresome, when all they want to spec is off the peg and underwhelming.
I'm all for open and informed exchange of views without prejudice as we have enough clutter to deal without making things personal.
@UpsideDownFork I did think at the time your ir video was passively aggressive and could sense your frustrations with the data as presented, not unsurprisingly then to hear you gave them the hump. Evidently many commercial concerns surfaced as did consumer awareness raised by your views, all of which created a situation allegedly poorly handled. Basically it shows that no matter how empirical one is, there will always be someone who misses the point.
Keep Smiling.
Well done for making this video, we needed to know what exactly happened and as expected it was a monumental cock up by their press department! Love the fact that you showed their logo on the offending letter too.😅
How about, if they refuse to be interviewed on the channel, you get one of their competitors on to explain how their kit works in a whole house scenario. 😁
Btw if I remember rightly the competitors only claim IR is cheaper to run than other forms of electric heating, like storage heaters so no conflict there.
Sorry you're going through this, i agree with the suggestion to get Black Belt Barrister involved should the comments here set them off again.👍
The threat was rather over the top; an attempt to scare you, I suspect - a common enough trick with this sort of letter writing though. If you take the action they request, you can absolutely ignore the threat as irrelevant wordage. The law firm just dashes this kind of letter off as a stock initial action - not surprised that when you rang the office no-one knew anything about it or cared. Their lawyer will likely have filed your response letter, end of. Reality is that evidently the only thing they could even attempt to hold against you was use of their logo, and even that's debatable (you'd need to speak to a suitable solicitor if you cared enough to challenge, but I doubt it would be worth the hassle). If there were more they could attack (e.g. if they felt you's said something defamatory) they would have said so. The 1 day timeline might arguably be unreasonable; what is reasonable depends on context however so difficult to be sure about. And of course the likely upper limit of action by Google would have been to take down that one video.
Thank you for your comment and reassurance.
Very poor business practice on behalf of Herschel.
In terms of defending copyright, a company has to be seen to manage all infringements they find otherwise a more serious case may not stand up in court. That is perfectly normal, as is their first part of the email. The latter part is just threatening and smacks of a power crazed employee. I would be tempted to report them to the senior management.
BTW you left their details unmasked at 6:31 in the video, might want to edit that?
Thanks for the heads up on my sloppy editing! I'll rectify that now.
I am considering Infrared panels and getting rid of gas and I thought your original video this and your original video were great. I am very disappointed by their actions as every complaint is a chance to make a customer a champion and improve their service. Please keep up the good work.
Install a heat-pump, run it low and constant on weather comp and you'll heating system will feel very different.
They obviously couldn’t get you any other way with what you said about the product so went for the logo instead. What you stated was fair as you are a reviewer. I wouldn’t worry about it. They’ve shown that they are pretty pathetic, reminds me of Nvidia and LG vs hardware unboxed tbh.
absolutely fair of them to ask you not to use their logo to generate views on a negative critique. Brand manager wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t get you to remove it.
True, but the threat was just wrong, the email should have been closed off with a simple if this is not complied with further action will be taken.
@@TheRonskiman A polite request is the only recourse they have. Use of the logo for the puropose of criticism is fair use. Unjustified legal threats are themselves unlawful
I agree.
Asking, requesting, no problem by me.
Demanding or threatening, unnecessary at a minimum.
NB . I like the kind regards bit 😂
Me too! 😁
I don't think that you're being too sensitive. It seems reasonable to request the removal of their logo but their extra comments were, at best, unnecessary. If your channel is important enough to write to then isn't it important enough to engage with on the issues raised?
I guess that there's a lesson about making industry comments vs comments about specific people or companies. More powerful people or companies have always used their power to squash the less powerful.
Request but not demand, their logo is in the public domain, so given it was a critique it should be covered under fair usage. I don't believe there was anything defamatory in the video either so they can't stand on those grounds either.
Well said!
@@metalhead2550 I believe that "fair use" is from USA law. I don't think that it applies in the UK in the same way.
The UK does actually have something similar as a specific exception to copyright for the purposes of review and critique, I'm not sure how it works with trademarks though www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright