Everest MYSTERY: Can George Mallory's LOST Camera's Film Be Developed?
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- čas přidán 29. 05. 2022
- Todd Gustavson is curator of the Technology collection at the George Eastman Museum. He was a member of the panel formed after the discovery of George Mallory on how to handle the camera and film if it was found.
When they found Mallory’s body back in 1999, a panel was formed by Eastman Kodak Company to discuss handling the camera and film processing. As the curator of the Technology collection at the George Eastman Museum (then known as George Eastman House), I was a member of the panel. The camera was to be kept frozen & brought back to Rochester, NY where the film would be processed by Michael Hager, and the museum’s conservation department would handle the camera. And that is pretty much where it still is.
Eastman Museum website:
www.eastman.org/
And a link to the collection books by Todd Gustavson:
www.amazon.com/Books-Todd-Gus...
The Happiness Quotient podcast:
thehappinessquotient.buzzspro...
I would think that if the subject film was found used, say wound, then they took pictures at the peak. If unused, they didn't make it. Say, even if it can't be developed.
Not being argumentative but as argumentative as all these armchair experts are,
I don’t think anything will ever satisfy all of them…
A used camera with no valid film will certainly not be good enough for many of them.
There are many people that claim that an ascent has to be
“successful “ (i.e. survived)
to count.
Of course,
they mostly don’t even want to climb stairs so who cares
what they think,
Right?
Truly....the film is one of many things one would need to make a determination of whether they made it or not. I'd merely love to see the camera, or cameras....even if the film in it is destroyed....
All I would say is why don't they just try to develop it and see what happens they can't lose anything by trying
this is seriously such a good point. we'd be able to know so much just from the camera and film itself, even without developed photos.
There has been documentaries and movies about every detail of the 1996 Everest disaster but no movie about this??? Unbelievable!!! Reminds me of the IAJ series, great movies.
Glad you enjoyed this Chris! Thank you
More to the point - we are living in a time when conspiracies are coming true
Would this be a conspiracy?
@@franklinjablonsky7613 sure sounds like it, but I'm old and suspicious of everything...
Very interesting interview Thom. Really appreciate your videos. Mallory and Irvine are very interesting the more I learn about their Expedition.
I'm glad that you enjoyed it, thank you for watching!
This is super interesting.
I know they recovered and developed old photographic plates found at the final camp of doomed North Pole seeker Saloman Andree in Svalbard in 1930. He had disappeared while trying to fly to the North Pole in a hot air balloon in 1898. Famously, one of the photo's is of 2 of them (there were 3 crew) surveying the balloon after its (inevitable?) crash onto the ice floe, so it's amazing just how long undeveloped film can last in extremis.
I believe a correction may be in order:
A cold camera + lens taken into a warm humid location will fog up - not the other way round which is what Todd has described here (a warm camera left next to your body - taken out into the cold). I take a warm (room temp or warmer) camera out into the bitter cold all the time and the lens never fogs up - done this for decades. Your eyeglasses steam up because they are cold and warm humid breadth, for example, will condense on them and fog them over. The second you take very cold camera+lens into a warm humid environment - the outside of the lens, esp. the glass surface (and camera body) will fog over (warm humid air condensing on colder surface). And depending on the temperature and humidity differentials, moisture condensation can and often will get inside the lens as well. That is why you should seal a very cold camera + lens in a plastic bag before entering a warm humid bldg. and allow the camera to slowly warm up in the bag - or use a blow hair dryer to warm up the equipment. Also, the UV filter would not only reduce UV light reaching the film (during the exposure) it will also physically protect the lens.”
Very cool....yes. What Todd says has happened to me on numerous occasions, so I didn't think much about it. One time I had a lens that must have had a bit of humidity between the pieces of glass, and when it went out into the cold there was fog inside the lens, between the glass where I couldn't reach it. That was a tad frustrating...so, I zoomed through it and worked around it. Thank you for watching...you have much experience! I appreciate the comment!
Thanks
I wondered about that, too. The moisture inside the lens could condense on the inside of the lens once taken out into the cold. However, the air on Everest is very dry. Every bit of moisture freezes.
"Maybe they're looking for the wrong camera"
"Nah this isn't the right camera from the 20s, toss that trash off the ledge"
When the narrator is stating "looking for the wrong camera" I assume he meant "looking for A camera, but in the WRONG location(s)"?
Haha, I thought the same: "Hey, this isn't a Vestpocket B! What kind of joke is this anyway?" lol
I've been interested in Mallory and Irvine since I was a teenager back in the '60s, when Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing were the ultimate superstar mountaineer/conqueror heroes of Everest. This was before Everest turned into a Disneyland/Las Vegas sideshow for rich tourists who can afford the $50,000 plus ticket. All these years later, the incredible discovery of Mallory's body has only increased my fascination with this story. I do not believe they made it to the summit. I believe they had a serious accident resulting in their deaths, either on the ascent or trying to return after it happened. But what is definitely certain is that their camera is still up there on Everest, waiting to be found. I hope in my lifetime someone finds it, and finds Andrew Irvine too.
Hard to believe they had an accident on the way up given Mallory's body was found 300m from his high camp. If that were the case he would have fallen within an hour of starting out on his day making it one of the least successful Everest climbs. His goggles were found in his pocket indicating it was dark when he fell, and there were no oxygen tanks found with him either, so he almost certainly fell on the way down when close to getting back to safety. The only question then is did he turn around before summiting and, if so, why? With oxygen they would have climbed much better than Norton and Summerville a few days before who got close (within a couple of hours). I'm pretty convinced they made it.
Odell`s sent a dispatch down to basecamp the day after they went missing describing their last seen location while he was still on the mountain searching for them, it read... "at the final step before the pyramid, at 12:50"
Odell was no fool, he knew the features of the ridge route, he would not call the first step the final step.
he knew the second step as the greatest obstacle of the ridge route, i am sure they discussed it in great detail as he was the one supposed to be climbing with Mallory, it makes no sense for him to describe it as the final step.
the third step however... not known as the third step at the time, makes perfect sense for him to refer to as the final step!
and if they were at the third step at 12:50 they were on a timeline to summit before 16:00 which was Mallory`s cutoff time.
and as Odell later stated in a news article, they were going strong for the summit, late, but he estimated them to summit at 16:00.
being this close they would probably go for it even if they would summit at 17:00.
Joe thank you for watching and thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I’m not confident that camera was up there. I believe the owner took it home and whatever Irvine had is what they took with them. The film at least made it back as pictures from it exist. As a previous comment said the Zigzag route ought to be attempted and if at all possible clarification on whether the 75 expedition did indeed find Irvine would be fantastic either way because of true it could potentially save lives as people will go looking from time to time and that’s added risk to an already risky endeavour.
Right on, thank you John.....
We shouldn’t put so much trust on a 100 years old film to solve the mystery. As it was already pointed out by many people in the years, the key to know if they made it to the summit, are the rocks that they would have took. If Irvine’s body was ever to be found, that’s what we should be looking for. That said, if we will also find the camera, we should also try to develop something out of the film but without putting too much faith on it.
The film is one element in a line of things that would help paint a clearer picture of what happened on 8 June 1924...for sure. Thanks for watching!
For me, the issue of whether Mallory and Irvine summitted in '24 is going to be settled by a Mallory-Irvine enthusiast climbing the zigzag route, and timing it. Or not making it, since it is too hard. The sunset shot of Everest on the evening of June 8th, 1924, is Pretty Darn Compelling. I see them trying to make it back in the dark, exhausted, with hypothermia and frostbite starting to set in, and one of them takes a tumble down the slabs.
What is compelling about it
@@czarcastic1458 Sunset ... and not a cloud in sight on the mountain. Not even spindrift.
Near perfect weather.
@@czarcastic1458 Weather conditions are prone to small variations, and to be clear, Mallory and Irvine would have encountered the standard wind and occasional swirling cloud. There was no 1996-style storm near the summit that day.
Whatever killed them, it had nothing to do with weather.
But these were the first men in history to have been this high, for this long. They would have been utterly buggered by 6pm, just as they were getting to the slabby, slopy rock bands. As the sun was going down, and it was getting very hard to navigate.
They did not spend all day effing around at the 2nd step. Mallory would have taken one look at it (assuming he even went that far to have a look) and said "sod this, we're traversing".
But I would NOT want to be coming down those rock slabs in the dark after 20+ hrs on my feet, having been the first to summit Everest, low (or worse, out of) on O2, half blind in the moonless night, cold and numb, disoriented. Descending rock slabs at night is hell. Done it myself. Sucks.
Which shot? I’m looking for it so may find it but if you do have a link I would appreciate it. I’m of the opinion they likely made it if Odell mistakenly referred to the 3rd step as the second step when saying he spotted them at 12.50, also if the watch did say 1.27 and that was the time of the fall, that would line up time wise too.
Yes, an expedition to do that route is essential.
I’m confused. I thought we were fairly if not 99% sure that Mallory would not have had the time to get this camera especially given that the owner would not have had time to swap the film out before loaning it to him? How do we know Mallory actually had this camera? Otherwise this is chasing wild geese wearing blindfolds….
Jochen Hemmleb talks about the camera angle here: czcams.com/video/zfBFTyDjOaI/video.html
I am pretty sure what you said there is just a theory of another CZcamsr based upon suppositions, but no hard evidence. So like most other aspects of this mystery, it is simply not known nor determinable based upon the facts as we now know them. Short answer--the 'handoff' could have occurred or it could not have,
@@fergalohearga9594 They have a great deal of information about who was on the 1924 expedition and where they were for most of the time.
If the handover happened as supposed there was only about an hour for it to have happened and the film would have to have been replaced at that time and it’s unlikely that it did in those conditions. So that camera is unlikely.
However, it’s possible that Mallory was given an additional camera earlier and there is testimony on film to that effect. If you accept that testimony then he had a camera, if not he didn’t.
But the model of camera that is often mentioned came out a year or so later so???
I think the most convincing point for me about summit or no is that they died. M Tracey makes a convincing argument about that fact and the timeline supported by the time found on the watch. I think that’s more convincing than a camera that may or may not have existed.
@@Whitpusmc Norton himself said he gave Mallory a camera. That’s the only actual evidence we have regarding the issue. The timing, film changing etc. is all supposition. As far as the best evidence they made it, I think first, this generation completely underestimates that generation and, second, that when he was found there apparently was nothing about his person that was inconsistent with him having reached the summit.
@@fergalohearga9594 Do you find Norton’s assertion credible? Honest question, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I think it’s very possible that he had one and the fall caused it to come out of whatever pocket it was in, I doubt the searchers missed it when they found him (Mallory).
I find M Tracey’s assertion “we know they summited because they died” a pretty good thesis. The data he provides does a good job of showing that as a likely outcome though obviously not “proof.” Just a convincing argument backed by data.
Great vid Thom! I had wondered if the film could even be developed if found.
Glad you enjoyed it! What fun to talk about this stuff....
While the question of the development of the potential film is an interesting one scientifically and historically, have we really established with a strong degree of certainty that Somerville ever actually gave a camera, let alone a VPK to Mallory? Doesn't the specific narrative of the camera being discussed here begin with Tom Holzel in his book co-authored with Audrey Salkeld 'The Mystery of Mallory & Irvine' and NOT with anything that happened in 1924? In fact, didn't Mallory screw up his opportunity at being a photographer in the1922 expedition when he didn't know how to use the plate camera he was entrusted with? Did Mallory ever even seriously consider taking a camera with him on June 8th, 1924?
Jochen Hemmleb (in an interview on this channel) postulates that it is conceivable that there were a potential of three cameras, one of them a motion film camera. I cannot imagine someone like Mallory going for the summit without a way to bring home proof. Cheers and thanks for watching!
@@EverestMystery But the 'evidence' that Mallory wrote about and discussed with others on multiple occasions was that he was going to bring back summit rocks. As far as I'm aware, not once did Mallory say he intended on bringing a camera with him. That's why it is important to investigate 'genealogicaly' how stories originate, get supplemented, and then eventually take on a life of their own! Thanks for the reply!
@@EverestMystery Didn't he have a altimeter on him but was broken? That would have been proof at least for how high he got.Not sure how accurate they were in 1924
The problem with the plates was in 1921, but it was remedied and Mallory continued photographing on the expedition.
@@davidbeck6342 1922! You make it sound like it was just a minor hiccup at the time! The photography that you mention him continuing with once he figured how to put the plates in correctly was Mallory going back and re-shooting the hundreds of photographs that he had initially messed up. He was criticized for his incompetence with the camera at the time and did not engage in any photography on the '24 expedition!
The point here though is how the camera has become front and center the focus of attention, inquiry, and even actual searches on the mountain itself, when Mallory nowhere mentions the intent of using or taking a camera to the summit. So, because Mr. Holzel, in many ways ignited the "Let's go look for the camera narrative," and, because no camera was found on Mallory in '99, the narrative has been maintained and even morphed into, "Well, he probably handed the camera off to Irvine at some point!" Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be looking for a camera at all!
The Chinese aren’t known for their honesty so getting anything near the truth about the camera, the film and the development of it, is going to be pretty much impossible.
Thanks for sharing!💙
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you stopped by
@@EverestMystery❤️💯👍
Your photo makes me pick up my Kodak pocket camera and begin video taping it
Love it!
Only trouble with Museums over here is you just cant trust any of them . Even my favourite ones over here have been more than shady . most people finding treasure over here will hire their own archaeologists because the Museums steal it , and even Whole countries cant get stuff back from them . Cherry Garrard walked a hundred miles with Wilson and Bowers from their hut on the Ross Ice shelf on the Scott expedition to get Eggs from the Emperor Penguin in Winter for the Natural History museum , Both Wilson and Bowers were to die on Glacier with Scott , but Cherry Garrard fulfilled the mission and to the Eggs to the museum , the Museum did nothing with them in his lifetime . But saying that Every Museum in London is free . I worked at Greenwhich Museum a couple of years ago . Thats the one for Explorers there are Members of the Franklin Expeditions buried around and inside the many museums there , but you need to know where to look . Best thing about London is the free Museums . If you ever want a free tour and you are down this way
I'm fascinated by the Franklin Expedition....would love more information on that, any archival materials that might be accessible. Cheers
This was awesome Thom! Great info!
Much appreciated!
This is so interesting. Knowing that there is a standing plan, for if or when Irving’s camera or any vintage Kodak is found. That, and the accordion mistaken for an enlarger.
Gotta love the accordion story!
Fascinating
Thank you for stopping by !
Maybe X-rays at the airport might also be an issue ?
Definitely.....good call
What specifically makes us believe Mallory even had a camera? That Irvine had one seems well established, but other than claims made by- or dependent on- people other than Mallory himself, I have not seen anything that would confirm Mallory did. And in as much as no camera was found on or near him, the reasonable conclusion as far as I can tell is that he did not.
Irvine had a camera but not the one in question here. I believe he was responsible for pictures and as such was carrying, images from that Kodak were developed from summerfield who owned it and at the very least brought the film home I’m not convinced that he loaned it to them.
If I were going to the summit today, let alone for a first ascent, I'd have brought a camera. Jochen Hemmleb talks of three separate cameras that could have gone with them (video on this channel). Cheers and thanks for your thoughts!
@@EverestMystery yes I should have said Cameras. It does appear though that Mallory didn’t take a camera if he was meant to have borrowed Somerville’s. The truth is we don’t know, it would be great to get clarification one way or another.
@@EverestMystery you weren’t replying to me. Sorry.
@@EverestMystery Has there ever been anyone who has summited that hasn't carried a camera, bar Mallory (maybe)? When Hillary and Tenzing summited, the only reason we see a picture of Tenzing is because Hillary suddenly realised Tenzing didn't know how to use his camera.. so even a guy that doesn't know how to use a camera takes one.. Surely Mallory has one with him when he leaves for the ascent
I bet there's a picture of Mallory and Irvine on the summit on some King or dictators wall somewhere.
Oh, that is a cool thought....like the end of Citizen Kane, when we find out who this 'Rosebud' is he was whispering about when he took his last breaths....
Hey Thom....I think I realize now, if a camera got found either way...it isn't going to be the silver bullet everyone is hoping for...at least it's a long shot. I guess we are down to summit rocks as the definitive answer. I do have a question regarding oxygen cylinders. I understand and am maybe wrong but Irvine and Mallory were working with 4-5 cylinders, and one was found around 1st step. If they had gone up, has there been any discovery of cylinders of that vintage...further up anywhere? From what I read they were running a cache system, so my mind makes me wonder whether and if cylinders were found further up that might assist in knowing? Any thoughts?
Re developing any found film, with enough planning it could be done, say, at Everest base camp.
Why I say this is that back in 2015 I went to Nepal as a nurse to help with the humanitarian effort after the earthquakes. My base near to Chautara, Sindhupalchok, had the full range of organisations working with their expertise as you'd expect; the UN OCHA, MSF, the International Red Cross, the World Food Programme, the Nepalese Army etc.
Helicoptered in were satellite dishes, a hospital OR set up etc, etc. Now, airlifting a good enough tented lab facility to process film up to 17,000ft+ would take enormous amounts of organisation and cost, not the least of which would be in the preplanning.
But, doing the work on site would get around the bad faith aspect so that one would not have to attempt to "smuggle" a film out.
I believe your correct...given the great expense of any expedition, I'd imagine a developing set-up would be a cost well worth adding to the overall budget. Thank you for watching!
There were nine photographers on Everest in 1924. They could develop film or have it developed for them by Beetham, who was appointed unofficial still photographer by John Noel and had the facilities to deveop film and make prints. All you need is a dark tent, developing tank, developer, stop bath and fixer and some way of keeping the chemistry at 68 degrees F.
Going the correct direction on this almost 100 year old mystery!!
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing. I'm surprised he doesn't mention the effect that cosmic rays would have had on the film. At that altitude for nearly a century, the film could easily be overexposed.
Very true....if it was under his body in a front pocket, it would have been shielded from the rays. But, absolutely, you're right....
@raph that’s bc everyone alrdy knows the story. Kodac was contacted about the likelihood of films damage and they said at those temps in that type of cam there is a very real possibility of developing proper photos from it. The casing is metal protecting a lot while the temperature preserves(in best case scenario)
Enjoying the channel Thom, for me, despite the fun and interesting possibilities of where Irvine and camera could be, and China being a convenient scapegoat for anytime the natural forces aren't formidable enough to keep the excitement alive, in the end -it's still overwhelmingly likely Irvine and the camera are frozen inside the Rongbuk Glacier, have long made the turn around Changtse and will spill out onto the scree at lower elevation in 50-100 years (or sooner the way the Climate is going) and a smaller likelihood Irvine and camera are in Kanshung Glacier after a fall trying to go around the 2nd step via the much greater volume of ice up on the Northeastern ridge in 1924. -and while he could be frozen into a shelf above 26,000, we have the technology today via drone photography, spectral analysis for aberrations in the rock, ice and snow, and AI contour analysis for geometric aberrations to locate a body in the only elevations likely to hold a body from plummeting in the glacier below. -so I suspect that possibility will get totally ruled in or out in the next decade. Fun to think on this and admire their efforts though!
Great channel, and I applaud your efforts to create a space for constructive debate about the 1924 expedition. What do you think about the argument that there wasn’t time for Somervell to give his camera to Mallory with a new roll of film? And regardless, do we know whether Irvine had his own camera(s)?
N.B. I see that you’ve addressed this in other videos. Thanks again for the interesting content.
Thank you for being here! I hope you enjoy the other offerings! Cheers
Mallory met Norton and Somervell when they returned to Camp IV and Somervell was in the camp until the next afternoon. He had plenty of time to finish off any roll that was still in the camera and load a new roll of film.
id say its highly likely at least 1 of them took a camera to the top..considering the challenge they were undertaking.
For sure, check my interview with Jochen Hemmleb, who postulates that as many as three cameras could have come into question on that day. Cheers!
Good info thanks Thom . I doubt the shelf life of the film was a 100 years in sub zero temperatures . No conspiracy just a scientific hunch.
Could be right, thanks for watching!
The experts at Kodak have been asked that many times. They keep saying it’s totally possible. Unlikely yet not absurd bc of the hard outer casing. The temperature they say could be the only reason why it wouldn’t be damaged beyond that point. (By their* experts obviously not some amateur)
I've got a camera just like the one on the thumbnail. The bellows are cracked and leak light in but it would be fun to be able to use it again.
We had one on Everest in 1999 and 2019, both in meticulous condition. They're fun to use....
@@EverestMystery the photo you have in the thumbnail is is my mind the wrong camera .
@@lifesahobby Roger that, my bad. Cool little video camera....!
How possibly could todd had handed the camera when he says he was called by Kodak in1999, when they found Mallory body as the camera was with Irvine. This is one.
And 2 nd is the make of the Camera was not available in 1924 when they attempted Everest as this version which they handled came in 1926 as per Todd's statment.
All efforts will be paid off at someday.
I hope so. Thank you!
Hi! A few days ago I came upon a documentary about this expedition and remember reading article about it in National Geography in school library, about 11 years ago. And for the last few days I was watching youtube videos about the 1924 expedition, in Polish and now in English. It's such a fascinationg mystery. And it's wonterful to find a channel of a man who was one of people who found Mallory's body that I was reading about in National Geographic. Im going through playlist and I know it's an older video, but I had a few questions that I was surprised were not mentioned. There is a possibility that Chinese expedition found Irvine and camera/cameras in 1960 or 1975, right? It is still a long time, but camera film was in bad conditions 2 times shorter than if it was found now. How much more possible was it to develop photos back then? On the other hand, in 1999 there was a lot of instructions how to transport a camera, keep it frozen etc. that Chinas team was not prepared for. And were they familiar with Kodak cameras? Living in Poland, I know from my parents that during communist years products avaible in Poland and other countries behind Iron Curtain were very different that ones in Western Europe.
I had basic photography lessons during university and I remember how unusual using traditional film was for me, I vaguely remember it from childhood, so I don't have much knowledge myself
@Ann-vz8tz Hello and thank you for watching and for taking the time to write such a nice comment. Many people firmly believe that the Chinese did indeed find Sandy (and possibly a camera), and that eventually he was moved. Some videos in the playlist titled Mystery of Mallory & Irvine go into this in more depth. I also intend to do a video in 2024 about this very subject. Truly, the gentleman who discusses developing the film said that it would be hard to mess up the process...that it would be fairly simple. However, in the hands of inexperienced people, it would be just as easy to destroy any chances of images being revealed.
I'm so glad you found this channel. We have had much talk of Poland here on the channel, having interviewed an exceptional alpinist named Adam Bielecki to talk about the rescue he did with his climbing partner Mariusz Hatala. It is one of the most incredible stories of 2023. Please, I believe you will agree that this is worth watching: czcams.com/video/wFeXfE4xLo0/video.html
(I'm not notified of replies to comments...if you start a new comment, I will see it).
Thanks for being here, take care
Thank you so much for reply!
I was watching Mallory and Irvine playlist in particular, because it's the topic that fascinates me in last few days, but I will check the interview Adam Bielecki! with@@EverestMystery
SOOOooo... which camera was it, the flat faced Vest Pocket camera with the 127 film, or the larger 120 vest pocket...? Definitely NOT the 1924 127 model as it's too late. I'm confused on which camera the way this is being explained..... Nyms.
We don't know for certain. My recent interview with Jochen Hemmleb details three possible cameras. The theme of this interview is to explore the viability of developing the film, depending on the shape that it is found to be in. Thank you for watching!
It would be awfully ironic
if everyone was looking for the camera and they had no camera after all.
I personally do not think that the Chinese have just ignorantly dropped that camera in a drawer somewhere,
if they found it.
This is the thing-
unless it went straight into
a deep freeze,
it isn’t going to be any good now,
anyway.
If they did have it with them
and if it’s not still on the mountain then it’s either lost in Chinese bureaucracy
(which I don’t think that
they would have allowed because of their tendency towards suspicious secrecy concerning all things foreign),
destroyed on purpose
(more likely),
ruined by improper storage
or by an incompetent or
otherwise unsuccessful attempt
to develop the film
(which is almost certain if it wasn’t just intentionally destroyed).
Just about anyone finding that camera on Everest knows its significance.
We are more likely to find a Yeti.
Good call....thank you!
You’re welcome.
I do understand that you
and some of your guests
hope against hope that
it’s still somewhere out there to find whether it’s
“On the Mountain”
or in a locked cabinet or such.
I do wish you all the best.
Those are just my observations and opinions that I wanted
to share.
What we do know for sure is this-
they attempted what had been impossible thus far and went farther up than anyone else had ever been known to go.
How many of us today would attempt to replicate their climb…
with their gear?
Not many…
if any.
Except for Conrad Anker
and Leopold Houlding,
of course!
THEY did it.
As you know,
George Mallory’s frozen body was discovered in 1999,
by a team led by Conrad Anker.
Now,
he is right up there
(so to speak) with Mallory-
as far as I’m concerned.
Unfortunately,
Anker suffered a widow maker heart attack in 2016 during an attempted ascent of Lunag Ri with David Lama.
He did survive but he has retired.
Yet,
that was 15 years ago-
who else is willing to try?
There will probably never be another similar expedition.
Leo Houlding had a lot in common with
Andrew Irvine,
is legendary in his own right
and is still climbing.
As for most of those who climb
(or hike,as it were) The Mountain
these days,
how far would they make it?
Not far.
They should call the modern method “Snakes and Ladders!”
Whether Mallory and Irvine “made it”
or not
may remain a mystery
but they should always be remembered with the utmost respect-
Again,
whether they made it all the way or not.
1924 was not his first time-
George Mallory was the only person on all three expeditions in 1921,1922 and 1924.
He had discovered a route which, according to his opinion,
would allow an attempt
on The Summit.
He would NOT give up!
On the recommendation of
Noel Odell,
Andrew “Sandy” Irvine was invited to join the forthcoming third
British Expedition to Mount Everest expedition on the grounds that he might be the "superman" that the expedition felt it needed.
Given that this was 14 years before his American counterpart first appeared,
this does put him in the running as a serious contender for the title of
“The Original Superman!”
At the time,
he was still a 21-year-old undergraduate student…
George Mallory later wrote home
to his wife Ruth that Irvine
"could be relied on for ANYTHING…
except perhaps,conversation”.
This is the thing,though-
During the expedition,
he made major and crucial innovations to the expedition's professionally designed oxygen sets,
radically improving their functionality,lightness
and strength.
He also maintained the expedition's cameras,camp beds,
primus stoves and many other devices.
He was truly a “Man of Action”…
not words.
He was universally popular and respected by his older colleagues for his ingenuity,companionability
and unstinting hard work.
Arnold Lunn,
one of Irvine's friends,
wrote:
“Irvine did not live long,
but he lived well.
Into his short life he crowded an overflowing measure of activity
which found its climax
in his last wonderful year,
a year during which he rowed in the winning Oxford boat,
explored Spitsbergen,
fell in love with skiing and perhaps…
conquered Mount Everest.
The English love rather to live well…
than to live long".
Together,
they pioneered this way
so that others could follow.
They truly “Braved the Mountain”.
Has anyone thought about sending a remote climbing robot to any potential locations? Nasa has been working on interesting technology called LEMUR that surely can survive the death zone on it's own.
Thom, what tangible evidence is there that Mallory or Irvine had a VPK on either of them upon their final climb? I have yet to find anything from Mallory's notes or anyone who was on the expedition that Mallory or Irvine had a VPK on them when they went up for the final time.
Somervell told Hoyland.
@@aeromodeller1 Where's the evidence of this?
What are your thoughts on Reinhold Messner claiming there was no way Mallory could have summited with nail boots? As 1 of the top 5 mountaineers of all time, surely he knows what he's talking about.
I agree with Messner
People who still use film now a days put it in the fridge to help preserve it, so its possible that the cold temperature would help to preserve the film.?
Also, I dont really think it matters about the exact model of the camera, if someone found an old camera from the 1920s they would recognize what its from.
True! Thanks for watching!
There are CZcams videos of people developing very old film.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
But the Chinese already have the camera….they also relocated and buried Irvines body.
If anything like a camera is found, i think it would be best to traverse over to the Nepalese side, if at all possible.
You can't trust certain countries.
In a word, the camera was founded, but couldn't be developed.
I think so, too!
On Franklin, The Museum at Greenwich has it all . the remains of Dr Goodsir are inside the memorial to Franklin inside the old Royal Naval hospital in Greenwich in the grounds of the University next door , all free to get in , all computers with all archive material is free in the museum , they are very helpful , i researched my great Graddads role at Dunkirk rescuing the British Expeditionary force in there , anything Naval is kept in that fantastic complex of buildings built on the money we made on Tobacco and Cotton . did you know 4 of franklins team survived 4 years, and actually made it off the Island going south only to be faced with massive cliffs where their remains were found , but there is a plan to find the remains and where they are , they are fragmented and looks to me like they all went there separate ways , apart from those ordered to stay on Terror , or Erebus . both are preserved as you know , just waiting for Canada to do a Mary rose job on them both , and repatriate our sailors who im hoping will go to Greenwich where they will be among many others that sailed to a new World
I just shared this with a friend of mine who is fascinated by these stories....Thank you for sending this along.
It's possible that the Chinese meant they bungled it by accidentally exposing it.
POV: Dear Uncle has passed. We should honor him & develop this film. Who are these guys on Everest??!
Imagine?! Some dusty attic somewhere…
Personally I think that when they said they bungled it that they may have said that but the film was not in a good state. That being said I don’t think the Chinese have it.
Also - Thom. Your voice reminds me so much of Russel Mael from Sparks.
Thank you for watching....and, I will have to pull up some Sparks videos!
Even if the Chinese had it and developed the photo finding that they did reach summit I don't think they'd feel "threatened" by two english chaps being the first to die during the descent. If anything it would be the british trying to hide that blemish on their pride.
The Chinese did not say they bungled it. They said they developed the film and "...there was nothing on it." Mark Synott interpreted this as "...they bungled it."
Is that a microphone from the 50s too? xD
lol pretty much! (My bad for not asking in advance that we work with the best comms equipment)
The narrative here seems inconsistent. There is talk of the difficulty handling and transporting the camera, and then a counter-argument that it would be difficult for the Chinese to have ‘bungled’ it. The process must be looked at as a whole. If the camera was recovered by the Chinese they could easily have failed to protect it prior to reaching the lab, at which point there would be an unsuccessful outcome developing the film even if that part was done right. That constitutes ‘bungling’ it.
It's possible that both of those can be true. The transport of the camera (instructions to our expeditions in 1999 and 2019) was the most sensitive part of the process...in terms of just getting it into the hands of the experts without exposing it or harming the camera. The developing of the film seemed a bit more solid, based on the expertise of the people from Kodak. Thank you for watching and for sharing your thoughts. I hope this conversation wasn't too rambling and was worth your time.
I doubt that government would screw up something so valuable to them and their national pride, their experts would say “risk is too high wait till we kidnap a Kodak employee” b4 a dice roll.
Need to find it first…. China probably found and chucked it. They are a most competitive and ruthless people when it come to us.
Yeah that thing might have been through a metal shredder... Appreciate that you watched!
Don't show this to that Tracy guy he's gonna flip and flip you off and bite your head off for even remotely thinking that the film would be developable. That guy's got some anger issues. I'm glad you guys are more sensible.
Funny, I don't find that about Michael Tracy at all. I find systematic, steady, factual critique.
@@bolshoefeodor6536 On one of his videos, somebody commented about developing the film if found. Tracy went off on him like his mother was insulted. I tip-toed a benign comment hoping he won't go off on me. Didn't get a reply. Never liked him since.
@@sunahamanagai9039 I’ve found MT to be quite logical, can you point this comment and response out to me please?
@@Whitpusmc I went back and looked for videos of his that I've watched, since they are indicated by the red stripe at the bottom. The subject video was quite a while ago and there are a couple that I've watched that are old enough, but those comment sections are turned off (now). I did find a video with comment section where you can kind of see his tone can get condescending. One commenter even said his (Tracy's) reply is snarky AF.
czcams.com/video/QJd8Ir_H-YE/video.html
Tracy has no clue what happened that day. No one does.
It could have been if the Chinese hadn’t deliberately destroyed it.
Camera ?? ,,,,, what camera ??? ,,,,, Mallory's camera was never found ,, that's plain and simple facts.
whats the Dharma in your name all about?
It hearkens back to my years in meditation....a reminder of sorts that the truth will always be revealed.
@@EverestMystery 💯
I'm a total lay person in all of this but aren't we pretty sure that the Chinese found the camera in 1975?
I believe they did, yes
Sond is... bad.
Indeed....had I the chance to re-record it, I would. Sometimes the connection is not good. Cheers and thank you :)
That film would take any abuse you can give it. I developed one twenty years under a windshield with100 degrees in the summer and ten below in the winter! Easy beautiful pictures!
Man I hope it's not true about China ruining that film
Gosh, me too.....we are hoping to get to the bottom of it! Thanks for watching, truly appreciate it and thank you for becoming a member!