Better Engine Building: The Easy Way to Degree Your Camshaft
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Properly degreeing in the camshaft on your engine build can be confusing, but this is the simplest, most accurate method I've seen many championship-winning engine builders use.
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Obviously, this shows how to degree in a cam before you've bolted up the cylinder heads. If you would like to know how to do it with the heads on the block, I've got a video specifically for that: • How to Degree Your Cam...
Here are links to some of the components and tools I used in this video:
Erson Cams & World Products: www.pbm-erson.com
Dial Indicator w/ Magnetic Base: amzn.to/2Sw2TLm
Deck Bridge: amzn.to/3a4r7ST
Small Degree Wheel: amzn.to/2TsrY9B - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Great tutorial.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for the kind words! And thanks for watching!
Wish you would have shown the whole job start to finish! Setting up the tools... 🤷🏼♂️.
This is a video degreeing a camshaft, best video I've ever seen , most people don't realize how important it is to set the dial indicator up on the center of the Piston .watch this video if your interested in doing it right, when through, put harmonic balancer on engine and reset degree wheel to tdc check and see if balancer is lined up on tdc with timing tab,this way you will have accurate ignition timing when set.
Thanks for the kind words!
Look friends, just because you " dialed in a cam according to the manufacturer, doesn't mean you will get the most out of it.
As an example, I built a super stock cleveor that was slow coming out of a turn running with wedge engines. I kept retarding the cam til it hit the sweet spot. Then it jumped coming out of the hole.
You have to experiment and not just take it as the final word from a manufacturer. They give you a decent starting point.
Just be absolutely sure that you have enough valve to piston clearance when you are doing this because advancing or retarding your cam timing will affect this. Advancing, which moves your power curve lower in the rev range, will decrease your intake valve clearance while increasing it on the exhaust valve. It also increases dynamic compression. Retarding does the opposite.
You will likely see a drop in peak horsepower either way but your needs might be better met with a change in cam timing.
Omg 30 years odd as a mechanic and i never got it, till i watched your video and bam. Even verified it on a mild 302 sbf windsor build. Thankyou!!!!!
This is as stated by others, the best explanation of how to degree a camshaft. I'm redoing a 350 Chevy right now, and it's been over 30 yrs since my hot rod days, and back then, we put the cams in, lining up the timing marks with the No. 1 Cylinder at TDC and away we went - and everything seemed to be fine. In this video, it seems like, what you're doing is not so much "degreeing the cam" as "verifying Cam manufacturer grind data". I say this, because at the end of the day, you put the cam in, and line up the timing marks on the timing gears, with the No. 1 Cylinder at TDC and nothing I see here, changed any of that so I am trying to understand why this is viewed as so critical to an engine build? To me, it seems the only way you could change it, would be to buy the timing gears that are adjustable, like the one in this video - but for the average joe garage mechanic - they're going to go with a timing chain set - I guess I'm just slow in the head as I don't understand why this is so critical, unless you're "verifying Cam manufacturer grind data" before committing the cam to the motor for the rebuild. I'm sure i'm missing something . . . I guess I just don't know what it is - and I know it's me, on my end . . .
I've been building engine's for sometime now and your input is spot on. Nice tutorial... I'm in the process of restoring my 1994 Pontiac trans am with the LT1. And of course freshen up the motor. She has 183000 miles on her. But all in all the car is solid.
Thanks for the kind words, and good luck on your restoration!
Love your technical videos! AND the KOVE sponsorship is a bonus. I love mine, the stereo sound is Awesome for working in a small shop building cars or engines. Quick edit. Nowhere near 7 hrs playback time as claimed. More like 2.5 hrs tops
I've seen alot of videos on utube about engine building trying to gather knowledge and you sir are far and few in between ,👍s up to you .
Great video. I have a lifter bore indicator its a great tool to eliminate the lifter pushrod dial indicator setup and is much more accurate.
Absolutely awesome. I totally thought it was way more difficult. Thank you so much.
Great video! You taught me a valuable lesson; thanks for sharing.
Excellent video! Most people don't know what the hell degreeing a camshaft is! Thanks and God bless you and yours!
Thanks!
Excellent demo. Appreciate, value and enjoy your content. Always Premo!
Thanks! And thanks for watching!
Very helpful video. Well explained and no waffle!
Wow i was totally lost watching multiple videos till i seen this. He made it simple as cake!
Oh using a pushrod is such a good idea! I tried putting something flat on top of the lifter to rest the dial indicator on or on the edge of the lifter and it was such a pain to get an accurate measurement, and to get the dial indicator to reach down into the valley. Thanks for the video. Watched a bunch of your others too, engine builds and such. You do quality work. Thanks again. I live in Australia, so handy to be able to get good tips from the other side of the world.
Thanks a lot! I'm glad the video was useful to you, and thanks for watching!
Your video was very well done. One thing that I did was take an old pushrod, cut the end off and braze it onto an indicator tip. This works great for some applications.
It’s always confused me but you did a good job with your simple explanation😊
Thanks! And thanks for watching
Nice video, regards from Argentina!!
If these instructors ask themselves “why”, it will make their instructions much better.
That cam card looks almost identical to this little 406 I just built for a buddy of mine. Its really nice too!
Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I finally get it!!. Maybe you can do a video on setting up the stand,
THANK YOU! I had trouble finding my intake centerline, not realizing that it's better to do it at .020" for an asymmetrical cam. Thanks!!!
I'm glad it was useful to you. Thanks for watching!
Am I the only one that’s still confused 😕 😢
😁 not to worry! Just watch a few more CZcams videos on this subject. And some of them they will use a degree wheel that goes 360°. And that may make more sense to you. And a lot of other people. Keep at it don’t be discouraged😁👍
I’m scratching my head😊
When a guy starts out using the two point set up then exits camera and goes to one point-
That exudes confidence in what he is doing.
Is this guy:
A. A builder doing cam #2,413
B. Reading a script and doing this for the 5th time.
@@hummervs3278my guess is he has done it many times and can do it more accurately with a double gauge but for teaching purposes, single is simpler. But who knows, should be the same measurement right? One way you can just measure piston rock at the same time, which would get annoying while degreeing. Hah.
@@dennisborg5243yes but no it's 720 lol
Incredible knowledge, explained clearly & straight forward ty
Thanks for watching!
This is my type of learning video. Great job! Concise and to-the-point.
Thanks a lot. And thanks for watching!
This video was very well presented
Thanks! And thanks for watching!
Seems pretty straightforward when you explain it like that.
Thanks!
That and connecting rods are the only things that made me nervous on my FE build. good video
Thanks!
Got it, pays to listern. Thanks
Thanks for the great lesson
Sig Erson and Engle cams are excellent
I timed my engine with a small wheel. Yes, it was a PITA but it was doable. I would LOVE to have that wheel you have. Great video as always!
Thanks a lot! The big degree wheel is new to me. I’ve used a small wheel forever but the big wheel is really nice. You can bet I won’t be going back! Thanks for watching
@@TheHorsepowerMonster what brand is that big degree wheel, i want one!
@@Switches13 I want one too!
@@bryanschroeder4526 I bought the aluminum comp cams wheel, it's awesome
Excellent video 👍👍
Thanks very much!
Concise and well done thank you
Thanks!
Many thanks really helpful. Building a brand new healey engine.
That degree wheel........❤❤❤❤❤
That was OUTSTANDING sir. You made it very simple to understand. Well done!
Thank you very much! And thanks for watching!
Great video, really easy to follow instruction. Any word on the Dart SHP 427 engine build going into the Camaro yet? Man, I want to hear that engine sing...!
Thanks for the reminder. It is still sitting in the corner of my garage while I drive the Camaro with the reman 350 engine. Just so many things to do I just haven't gotten back to it yet. Thanks for watching!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster My wife has a 1981 Z-28 with 62K original miles. Got it for her 21st. birthday! lol.... She said she'd love to have a 427 in it.... we'd even film a burnout when we're finished with the install! Ha, ha.... Love this channel, keep up the awesome work!
You might want to go into more detail about the retarding of timing. I ran into an engine builder who had no clue of why we retard the timing on the pro engines. He was pushing the inserts out of his spark plugs and breaking pistons. I tried to talk to him about this, and he proved to be unteachable. He knew how to assemble engines, but had no clue how to tune one for more than 2000 HP.
You laid it down really well, thanks a lot, I really like that timing set although I'm not a Chevy fan which is irrelevant, that's a nice piece of hardware.
Cool, thanks!
What I want to know, is WHERE can I get that degree wheel!? That thing is AH-MAZ-ING! By far the best design I've ever seen...
Agreed. But unfortunately, they don't make it any more as far as I know. Sorry.
GOOD VIDEO
Thanks very much. And thanks for watching!
one thing not really emphasized and a source of confusion is the need for degreeing because you want/need to know what the cam is doing with the valves relative to the piston position. The majority of cams are probably spot on for their grind but what is important is how that cam works in relation to it being rotated by the crankshaft sprocket. Sprocket may be off, the crankshaft keyway may not be in the right place just to name a couple of things that can effect the cam valve timing. The importance is to have all of the rotating assembly components working in unison so that you can verify correct positions or find and correct those not in spec.
Look, get number one piston up just before it goes down, move the cam to up just before it goes down, then turn cam back before it starts down the other side, split the 2 point to center high cam, put the gear & chain on dot to dot
I usually check a cylinder on each side of a v8. Had a cam on a 460 ford that was 22 degrees off from the right and left side. The driver side had 120 psi and the passenger side had 80 psi. Not a good day...
Do you see much difference worth worrying about between degreeing it at this point and moving on, or doing this to verify it, then fine tuning it (solid lifters) at the valve spring retainer on the complete engine with deflections and all factored in..?
You ever try checking with a tenths indicator how many degrees the piston actually dwells for at tdc..?
Who makes that degree wheel? Love it! Need one!! Thank u!
I have 2 Erson cams new that are said by Erson to be on a 108 intake center line that are a116 intake center and they never did anything to fix the problem. Buy a lot from pbm in the day
Can I Use a Degree wheel to time a new rebuild with the heads and Intake Manifold on ?
Is it a major necessity to degree the cam if I'm doing a moderate OE rebuild, with a very mild cam? Not going for big power, just a little higher than the OE setup.
Need a pro! Can I remove spring from hydraulic lifter and shim with some washers to make a solid lifter? Just for degreeing purposes? Engine is a 5.7 hemi. Thanks and great tutorial!
Hey big fellow, great stuff. That timing gear; one must listen more closely for it's make! Whom makes the degree wheel, please?
Regards,
Adam.
E916001 - Erson Cams - DEGREE WHEEL 16" is that wheel, however its out of stock for some reason.
What do you do if you dont know what cam you have / dont know the details about it?
E916001 - Erson Cams - DEGREE WHEEL 16" is that large degree wheel.
Will the lifter compress slightly with the pushrod pressure? Do you need a solid lifter for this or soak them in oil to fill?
Finding TDC why don’t you mark the wheel when the dial stops and mark it again where it starts moving again and split it in half? Much easier to understand and go about.
Not being critical here at all, I understand more after watching then I did before, but it seems that you just proved that the cam is what it says it is? If a shade tree mechanic(me) is putting one together and don't have a dial indicator or a degree wheel or adjustable timing gears...... what would I get from this?
Great video! I’m looking forward to using the information from this video on my 351 Cleveland for my T-Bucket. Where did you get your degrees wheel?
Sorry, it is out of production
So what if you're using a regular timing chain set, that doesn't have the adjuster or extra bolts. And just has the normal 3 non-egged shaped bolt holes? How would you adjust the cam timing then? And what does a Cam that's something like 112+2 look like on a degree wheel?
Sir... what 'b0ut "h0w t0 kn0w the lash in every valve"? Is there an accurate way t0 identify it? Thanks...
Never understood this step on a typical street engine, if you stick a camshaft in the engine, and a timimg gear set with normal keyways and alignment dots on the sprockets, there is not much to do with your degree wheel is it?
I'm getting ready to do this for the first time on a 5.0 coyote...4 cams, no vvt. lol, at least I'll get a lot of practice for my first time degreeing cams.
That is a seriously tough job. Kinda like playing an NBA game the first time you pick up a basketball. Thanks for watching my video, but I definitely would suggest watching some videos or finding information specifically for degreeing in the cams on a Coyote. Good luck!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster
No cam card either. Just have to figure it out.
I'm not worried, I have some idea were I want the cams to be plus, like you said, lots of videos out there. I picked this engine on purpose for the challange. 👍
How was TDC determined? Piston at top of deck can also be the exhaust stroke. Right?
HEY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU I HAVE A 5.7 STOCK CHEVY ENGINE OUT OF A 1990 K5 BLAZER IM JUST NOW STARTING TO SMOKE IT WAS JUST DOING IT WHEN I START IT UP ONLY NOW I SEE IT WHILE I IM DRIVING I PULL THE SPARK PLUGS OUT ALL THEM LOOK PRETTY GOOD EXCEPT FOR #8 IT WAS COVER UP PRETTY BAD WITH OIL THEN I TOOK A COMPRESSION TEST AND ALL THE CYLINDERS WERE READING 150 EXCEPT #8 WISH WAS THE ONE THAT HAD ALL THE OIL ON IT AND IT WAS READING 180 I FIGURED THAT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS ALOT OF OIL BUILD UP ON TOP OF THAT PISTON..SO I WERE JUST GOING TO DO THE HEADS ..OR JUST DO THE VALUE SEALS ...I DONT HAVE MUSH MONEY SO IM TRYING GO THE CHEAPEST WAY OUT BUT I WANT IT TO BE RIGHT..SO WHAT DOO THINK I SHOULD DO...
So I have to buy ALL this equipment to change a camshaft on a small block chevy???
Is it necessary for a mild daily driver combo
did you degree for every cylinder
Oh then only need to adjust 106° for first piston as soon as first piston got exactly 106° its good to go bro? Or need to adjust all piston ?
Who makes that degree wheel?
Wow!! So much for what I thought was OK lol good job,thanks
My intake center line is 108 and was ground 4 degrees advanced
Need a manufacturer link about the large degree wheel,thanks
E916001 - Erson Cams - DEGREE WHEEL 16" is that wheel, however its out of stock for some reason.
How would I do this with dometop pistons with valve reliefs?
I GOT A 1990 K5 BLAZER 5.7 WITH ECU GOT ENGINE REBUILD GOT THE BLOCK BORED 30 OVER AND DID A FEW UP GRADES IM USING EX262H CAM IN IT WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD COVERTER TO USE I TOOK THE STOCK ONE OUT..AND GOT 2000 TO 2400 STALL .. IS THAT GOOD WITH THAT CAM
How do you degree a chrysler 3.5l v6 sohc i can't find anything on it I had my cams grinned any help would be appreciated
What is the brand of the large degree wheel that you used to degree this cam in?
Good evening sir i am little bit confused why we moved dial guage fifty thousand an inch my concept is not clear kindly explain sir
What's a good dial indicator?
What brand is that degree wheel?
I never understood why this is necessary.
If you can trust a company to grind a cam, you would think they would put the key way, in the right spot.
But I guess you can fine tune anything.
Because there is a tolerance plus or minus it's not going to be absolutely perfect from one cam to another although same part number. Within one degree is probably where it lays and checking your cam tells you exactly where it lies so you can degree your cam plus or minus depending on your build and what you are looking for in output.
Books say one thing. Mechanics say another. But you will only know by experimenting yourself. In this day and age with so much bullshit arround, I don't believe anything. Cams are cheap. Try 3 or 4 in your engine. See what works for you, that's what I do.
@@chrismontreuil2206 cams are not cheap. youre just rich.
Excellent tutorial. Many thanks. Where can I buy that degree wheel ?
Thanks. Afraid they don't make them any more.
What if your double roller timing gears and chain aren’t adjustable?
Where can I buy that timing chain set ( it looks like you have to be a dealer ) ? Also what kind of degree wheel is that ? Thank you.
Can i use this method on SOHC motorcycle camshafts sir??
Who makes your degree wheel
Im a slow learner is there a step by step on how to learn this
what is your job title? I like this
Thanks! I guess my title would be Chief "try to find a way to make money off playing with cars so you don't have to get a real job" Officer. Thanks for watching!
Where did you buy this degree wheel from? I want one!
Sir why we move degree wheel of 50 thousand kindly tell me
why dont u like the positive stop method?
If someone wanted to change out a cam to a slightly less lift or duration of cam . Would it be possible to use the same valves and all. Or would you have to change out springs , valves if you Changed the cam.
Yes, it will work. You may not need as much spring pressure, but it will work. Thanks for watching!
Where did you get that adjustable degree wheel ? I’d like to get one but I cannot find it anywhere
Sorry. I don’t think it is in production any longer. It is cool, though. Thanks for watching!
Got it, setting the cam timing on a V8 push rod engine, so no real adjustment without adjustable timing gear.
Unless you are using a totally stock timing set, most have some sort of adjustability. This one is definitely high-end, but most have extra keyways cut into the lower gear (the one that goes on the snout of the crankshaft), and by rotating the lower gear forward or back, by taking the gear off and using a different keyway slot over the woodruff key in the crank, you can adjust the timing by increments of two degrees. Thanks for watching.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster thanks for that, im from UK, so not familiar with all American terminology and V8's other then the junk rover V8 from the 70's.
@@aeroflopper nothing wrong with buick v8s.
@@frigglebiscuit7484 they had no power, but tuning potential was quite good.
Thank you for the video. I have a question that I couldn’t find an answer for it I’m google. Can I dial and degree on any piston? If I want to degree on a piston #3, I should set my degree wheel TDC on piston #3 or it’s always #1? The cam specification is general to any piston or I should ask the manufacture for the number related to the piston I will degree on. In motorcycle engine it is difficult to find a space to degree in all pistons.
Yes, you can degree in on any piston. Just make sure you find top dead center for that piston and don't just go off of number one! I've seen engine builders check multiple spots on the engine when degreeing in a cam just to make sure there wasn't any drift when the cam was ground (That's when the centerline on each lobe moves a bit from the front of the cam to the back.) Thanks for watching
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Thank you so much for help, I was looking for this answer :)
how to get the right timing if the cams is aftermarket without cam card? and it has no timing mark. im using it with my motorcycle
If it has a part number or a grind number on it, you can call the cam manufacturer and they should be able to help you.
That looks confusing to me. If I only had a brain. Great video.
I'm too Cowardly to do it and my buddy just doesn't have the Heart.....
I love your channel and videos. I actually only degree a cam if I plan on not running straight up dot to dot (like 4 degrees advanced or retarded), so I know absolutely where the timing is at in order to change just how much I want. Otherwise, with the many hundred plus engines built, I rely on the manufacture specs to be correct. Especially when paying several hundreds of dollars for custom ground race cams. Excellent explanation of how the process works.
Thanks! And thanks for watching
So if I get a brand new cam I shouldn’t have to degree it?
Mistakes happen when grinding cams and you shouldn't rely on them for being correct. Centerlines wrong, wrong cam for the application etc happen and these errors are easily caught by degreeing in the camshaft.
great video very straigth forward, also im not an engine builder and I haved heard that when you degree a cam you should meseaure in more than one piston, do you think that is unnecesary or useful in any other aplication?
I don't think so and I haven't seen many other engine builders do it when I document their engine builds. Cam lobes in relation to each other are almost always dead on. The issue with cam timing is usually stacked tolerances between the cam, timing chain, keyway in the crankshaft snout, and on down the line. I hope that helps, and thanks for watching!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Thanks for the answer, I have remember where I heard it, an old powernation video with Joe Mondello and they said he degreed the cam in four cylinders, guess and old habit of the guy god rest his soul, minute 9:00 of the video czcams.com/video/eFJBvOE1rWM/video.html thanks again