Finding the Centre of a Thermal - Paragliding Game intro! - BANDARRA
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2018
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If you fly a paraglider have you wondered how to find the center of a thermal? Or how counter intuitive it is that if you have a strong headwind and you're sinking out you should stamp on the speed bar!?
Well since a few years ago I always wanted to make a quick little simulation that would allow me to test these things. I didn't get very far in the project but my friend Ricardo, a game developer stepped up to the challenge!
In this video I go through the logic algorithm of how to find the center of a thermal when all you have is your variometer (thermals are invisible most of the time).
This technique allows you to progressively get closer and closer to the center of a thermal allowing you to not fall out of it and climb in the best lift available.
My friend Ricardo did a quick game prototype where we can test this method and it worked surprisingly well.
Now the question is what should we do with it?
Mobile game? Pc game?
2D or 3D?
Educational tool?
Multiplayer online game? RACING! :D
Let us know in the comments!
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Hello.
After watching your video It occurred to me to program an easy game in which a paraglider follows the algorithm yo mention to center thermals.
I hope you enjoy it.
scratch.mit.edu/projects/227069852/#fullscreen
Dude this is AWESOME!! it makes my original explanation a lot shorter and a lot easier to visualize! How long did it take you do make it? Super well done sir :)
An inspired and properly caffeinated sunday afternoon
can you show us some footage of it? would be very interesting
@@AndreBandarra1
It's fantastic!
PLEASE !!!
Make second version with steering paraglider and invisible thermals !!!
@t
@@prokopcio Plus make it with vario latency to be set.
Hey! Just wanna say that I watched your video the day before yesterday, then flew for 2.5hrs for the first time as a direct result of using your formula! It really does work! I felt like a pro... only got my license last year! So thanks a lot.
That's awesome to know! I remember that feeling of going up and up and up :D It's not my formula though, glider and hang-glider pilots have been using this since before paragliders were invented.
@@AndreBandarra1 my third solo flight was 45 min thanks to a sailplane presentation on youtube (amongst other factors)
You just changed paragliding for ever. All the stakeholders that will want to gain influence and benefit from this will be getting excited. You'll open up paragliding to a whole population that doesn't know about it. The great thing is you've done it by being customer focused and engaged.
One of the simplest and best methods for finding the core that I've ever seen. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
Now I can understand the hi-lo beeps more clearer.This is So Logical. Thanks Andre this opened up the big door to sailing!
Very insightful! Thank you for the explanation. It has given me a much better understanding of thermalling and what appears to be a fundamental in paragliding - I will bear all of this in mind when I'm learning to paraglide this summer!
You two just developed a training aid for an instructor to use in a classroom. It's practical knowledge before you actually get out there and do it, worth it's weight in gold. Keep up the good work.
Great work Andre and Ricardo! Keep it stripped down and simple, it's unique and best as a learning tool. There are already 3d PG flight sims out there, and making it complex and programming heavy would detract from the power you can get out of a simple tool to teach the skill of centreing. For PC, left and right sticky keys, with space bar to go hands up. For mobile, tip the phone left/right to turn. In both cases, if you turn too tight, spin the wing and lose lots of height, to train the concept of not turning too tightly. Make it a closed circuit 'race' ... always start at 100m and time it to 1000m, that way you can compare the efficiency of different strategies. It may be that the turn-reversal, or tighten-on-lift technique is better .. playing with all three will be educational. When you get to 1000m, it reveals your coloured circles so you can confirm if you got it right. If you get to 0m, the game switches off ;-)
Thanks for that Greg, really appreciate the input! For me personally I'm inclined to take it the sandbox/simulator route so that can best be used as a learning tool. There are a few 3D parasims out there that just feel a bit clunky or incomplete.
I do have some really exciting ideas about control methods though :) don't think keyboard or mouse is the way to go, and also think it should start slow and 2D where you learn basic concepts like thermaling or speedbar use (because that's the only way to get through the level) but then i think using the same platform other things like 3D races could be built on top of it. Kind of like doing tutorials and learning for those who want/need but also a way for more experience pilots to train/practice other things like decision making or gaggle flying. So many ideas :)
Yeah - good advice!
Can, please can you put here name or link for that 3D PG game/sim you are talking about? Thank you.
I'm new to flying and only just staring to try catch thermals, this explanation gives me a good structure to follow when I'm out there trying, and the computer program as a phone app would allow me to train coring thermals making it more intuitive in my flying. I'd love to see it kept simple and made public. Thanks for the hard work.
Never heard a better or more simpler explanation on how to navigate thermals!! Great job man👌happy flyin!
*Good stuff!* I am brand new to soaring, and this video has been an excellent way for me to get my head around what my instructors are always trying to do! Many thanks.
the work is great. I suggest that for the initial release need to have separate left and right controls for the respective drag lines- the left and right control keys on a std keyboard. later version can have physical pull ropes attached to the ceiling as inputs connected by blue tooth to the computer.
need to have an overlay of terrain with some logic to the placement of thermals.
worth thinking about
Andre thank you very much for sharibg this method to find the core of the thermals. Im Hang glider pilot and yesterday I practiced it. I improved my performance a lot, and I can't understand how nobody explained this to me in my flight club. I appreciate it. I could find the core in three differents thermals. Greate !!!
This is great!! Thank you so much for your insight. Very well explained for beginners as myself. Excited to hear more about the game/app module. Thanks RICARDO.!! 🙏🏼
That’s great! I’ll soon start paragliding and this is going to be so helpful!
As a learner, it would be interesting to be able to choose different class wings and see how they react. Maybe in low wind, strong wind etc.
You have been doing some amazing work....Keep it up !
Compliments to your very effective and great style of explaining complex concepts. Keep the great work going on.
This is great André, I would add information from thermal maps, they are now available thanks to the tracks uploaded by multiple pilots, it could be a nice add-on to the simulator, so people could play over a terrain with thermals tight to real-life conditions, bye-bye random placement of thermals.
The drawing was the best explanation I have seen on how to find and stay in a thermal. Cant wait to test the theory out. Thank you for that!
Great idea, learning to flare when landing in no wind vs strong wind, experience stalls etc, keep going.
Andre,
Bravo, there is no simpler and more effective way to teach thermaling that this. I'm so glad to see you promoting it.
Joe Greblo
Los Angeles
Very simple explanation. Tried it myself and helped me center thermals better. Thanks!
I just learned about thermals...and excually understand them like i didnt not before!!! Very nice explanation! Good Video's and solid Info!!! Keep it up! Thanks for sharing!
Dude , I’m very impressed . This is a fantastic video for ALL pilots , especially beginners , explaining thermals etc . Good luck with the game , ill be one fo the first to download it .
i have watched tons of hang gliding videos, i have never heard a hang gliding pilot explain this, i dont know a lot about it, but i do know understanding weather and thermals are very important,.thanks for sharing the information. i am interested in the game!
Very well done! Thank you Andre
I liked the way you explained the way to find a thermal center. Thank you.
I'm so glad I found you on CZcams! what a fantastic video! loved how well you explain the formula to center a thermal. im new to Hang gliding but it's the same theory...
I'm sure you and Ricardo are going to get very busy from this video..the idea of a learning tool as an app for pilots to practice and learn the techniques will be great and also can see a game being extremely popular...
I'm not a gamer at all but would absolutely love to play a flying game where I can learn new skills and compete with other pilots all over the world!
you just won lotto! enjoy the ride!
Dude thank you so much. I’m new and was thermaling yesterday for the first time and I wasn’t getting it. This helps so much.
Great Idea, pursue it further! 3d terrain, adjustable weather, XC missions, Thumb stick pitch and roll control would be fun.
Dude this is awesome!!!! i want to start this trip nezt year so i started to search all it is available. i was looking for such perfect explanation! Thank U!!!
Very interesting and well explained! Can't thank you enough!! Thanks!!!
This is extremely useful, and very well explained! Thank you!
Following flying aimlessly about as I start to learn the art of thermalling, a sim like this would be awesome. Ideally levels of difficulty (size and/or drift of thermal) as well as ground trigger point indications for me to fly toward would be great.
It looks really, really cool!
To be honest, the first few seconds at the start of the video, I thought that there's plenty of PG games like that, but after your theory bit, and the demonstration of the game, I realized this is actually a simulator, *and* it looks especially useful (and cool too) Keep on it!
Cheers dude!
I want to add too, that even without the awesome thermal bits, the game looks much better than the run of the mill of mobile games. The ribbon path and the way the PG looks turning is so good. He really did a great job.
Super easy concept to understand!!! Ready to go try this in the air.
brilliant presentation and explanation. thank you very much.
Very cool . I would love to see it for a learning tool . Easy too understand. Thank You for great explanation .
Your introduction for centering and the demonstration of it in the game was just great! Thank you!
I would love it as an educational tool. Just for getting used to those two rules. I don't need much in the first version of the game. Simple 2d as you showed it and later 3d and all the other stuff would be nice ;o)
Keep up your great work!
And a Tutorial for the game programming would be also great!!! ;o)
I love that you and your friend are doing this! It'd be cool to use geographical data from google earth and overlay the game on it. Having thermals occur in places they naturally would, turbulent lee sides and other variables would be fun to play with. What an awesome idea you've come up with! I could see even non paragliders having fun with it.
thanks! definitely something to consider. I think the terrain model from google earth is quite limited but i really like the idea of being able to fly all over the world
Check this out for inspiration. It's a sailplane sim for both Android and iOS. I think it's using Google maps tarrain surface as well. It also supports online racing. I spent some quality time with chatting with other soaring enthusiasts in it. I think your idea has a potential to be even more sophisticated mini sim that can actually contribute to our real flying skills.
xtremesoaring3d.com/
Excellent idea !
One of the best theory tutorial for finding thermal core that I've ever seen. A big thanks.
Great idea. As some others stated there are already 3D PG sims online. Added value of your program/app could be in its simplicity, focusing on simulation of the basic dynamics of thermals and brakes. Gaming is by the way a very effective training tool. I'm working in the aerospace sector and we have joint teams of game designers and HMI specialists developing education and training tools for very complex interactions. So for me you're on the right track! ;-)
Awesome, well done!
A great explanation - thank you !
Brilliant explanation man.
EXCELLENT lesson. I will try it myself here in Oslob, Cebu Philippines. Thank you
Wow, you have totally demystified how to core a thermal. I was thinking of taking this a step further. Imagine sitting in Simulator and the toggles control your turning and you have VR goggles in. Awesome way to train a pilot.
It's AWSOME!!!
Thank you very much for pursuing this project. I think there is a need for it. I would do it 2d and evolve to 3d once it gets traction, you could pull the data of previous flies from Skyways to get realistic thermals, and even compare then simulated flies Vs real ones. "what if I would have ... in my previous fly" and of course a great tool for newbies (like me) to test thermaling skills.
It's amazing men! I can't wait to see what comes out of this
I just found this simulator too. is worth taking a look.
paraglidinglogbook.com/simulator/
Excellent video Thanks a lot! As a beginner pilot, can't wait to try it in the sky when season begins in Quebec.
Nice game with open chat community all over the world? To share experiences? Very nice! Love it
Great explanation
Thank you
excellent explanation - thank you for sharing..
I’m laying in bed sick with COVID watching all your vids. Keeping me going. Can’t wait to fly again, thank you
This is really awesome info,
Very good explanation 👍
Outstanding. Thanks!
This concept is so simple but genius. Not even in the flight school was it taught in such a simple way. This algorithm should be implemented in each vario.
Drifting and collapse of thermals! Ricardo you must get this game up! I’d really be interested in playing it!!
Thanks for that very usefull video :)
This is great! Thakns a lot I will use it in my next flight!
Please consider setting it up for hang gliders and sailplanes as well. Big value as learning tool. If you can design an interface that works with a simple consumer game joystick, then it could be incorporated into a practical simulator using a full scale hang glider harness and control bar or pg harness simulator with brake lines.
This added realism works real well on the simulator I've used in the past with flight game software.
Great. In fact really great. If you can add temperature wind speed direction and thermal triggers on the land I believe it's going to be perhaps the very best learning tool for every pilot. Good luck to you.
Thanks for the support Kashif!
This has huge potential. Just imagine integrating Google Earth images as terrain and adding invisible thermal trigger points according to ground color and also wind drift. Thermals could vary in strength and some could be broken up just like in real life, randomly generated. I can see it as a strictly 2D multiplayer XC simulation.
Sounds like a lot of fun, do it brother
This is exactly what I was looking for in App Store like hundered times. Simulator/game whatever, I woudl pay for it. Love the multiplayer idea. Make it real please!
we'll try our best, thanks for the support dude!
Very good ideea, i suggest to have a background picture like you see in the air. and to have a multiple game session with different pictures and random thermal core. During the game the thermal core is not visible but at the end of the game (10-20 minutes)you should see the thermal core (one color) and your track in a different color.
awesome bro., great explanation.
Excellent 👍
Hi thank you for this explanation I definitely will try it in my next fly. I think it will be interesting as a learning tool and very cool as a game for cross country
What a super idea for training and keeping skills and thought processes sharp when not flying. I like the multiplayer xc game idea.. and I wonder if you could program in various weather/ wind patterns or even terrain features or rotor at all and simulate different basic collapse scenarios and have to react with proper brake inputs.. -or something like that.. I know graphics and maybe even haptic feedback might get complicated then but you're still reinforcing the right thought processes for recovery.
Nice job. Love the ingenuity here on the channel and the ideas.
Thanks a lot for the support! yeah I really like the multiplayer XC idea too, but then again, a mobile game would be great too... so hard to decide.
I'd most definitly say learning tool. VERY interesting!!
I think the game is an essential tool for us, I would so play it
Very cool!! Thank you for the explanation. Learning tool in 3D please!!!! With TWO controls on a touch screen for left and right thumbs, sliding up and down each thumb would equate to pulling brake on respective side. Adding wind would be even better.
That was excellent
✌nice presentation
Merci pour cette démonstration ça me semblais un peu flou de trouver les thermiques, j'avais l'impression que ça tenait plus du hasard que d'autre chose, en fait c'est mathématique ! 👍👍
I tried it today, and it works really well! Thanks Andre (>* That was extremely helpful!
Great explanation!
cheers dude, appreciate it
I would see the need for ground terrain interpretation as a second step. First i would like to see more real life elements in the game like down wind on thermal lee side, downbursts, change of speed and direction of wind, work with speedbar, maybe even some kind of interpretation of random *stall accidents in harsh conditions. Thanks for the effort
Hi man that's a great way of doing it... since i fly with no instremnts i think a better way to do it is to use weightshift toward whatever side pulls up first, normally there where the core is then use the brake to control your turning it works everytime
This is fantastic. You’re absolutely right about the many possibilities. I’d love to see a few things;
a learning tool that incorporates lessons with the flying.
terrain range from dune soaring to x-alps with adjustable conditions and 3D
As someone else mentioned actual brake toggles to pull on instead of sliders. You could use the same things from the unstallable wing project. Why not weight shift too?
Multiplayer online would be great especially if you could put all of it together with a VR head set.
Bandarra World Cup here I come!
I have no idea how to do any of this so I applaud what you’ve done so far. Keep up the good work and make sure you get time to actually fly!
Also a mobile version so I can spend hours and hours flying when it’s -40F here.
The first time I’ve heard a Thermal described correctly as a “Column of rising air”. You may want to add that outside the thermal there is a sheet of cooler air moving downwards, caused by the displacement by air expanding upwards.
Great video.
Fantastic, I’m sure that a couple of years ago their was a PG simulator free online. I think it had something to do with the US navy. It used google maps so you could fly at your favourite sites all around the world. It was a great tool/game.
Keep up the good work
I like the idea of the Google Earth, or other locales around the world. Kind of like existing car racing games where you pick the track and difficulty level. Being able to control not just left/right and seeing competitors would also be nice to see where the others are getting lift (maybe a hawk here and there?) Great concept.
So basically you follow the rules until you think you found the spot. So the rules only apply to finding the centre. Ah yes, that's the title of the video for a reason! Ha ha great. Best video I've seen so far (and I've been looking around a bit). Fantastic video, even better info! I will be flying next week and looking forward to applying this knowledge. Thank you so much. Given that it's 4 years since you made this video I won't bother with a comment for Ricardo. Guess those decisions have been made already.
Congratulations !!, it looks good. I prefer the simplicity of the game since its function is to be able to train when we can not fly or learn at the beginning.
If you get it, I would like to have it.
Thnaks
wow you broke that down so well an the game is a great idea
Personally, I would prefer if this was learning tool, with the possibility to have the thermals drift according to a wind gradient. Thank you for reaching out to the community!
Introduce wind so that the thermal moves.
Also make it into an mobile phone app with multiplayer capability that has high scores, daily, weekly, all time high and so on.
The multiplayer aspect would probably be really beneficial for people to learn the rules when flying.
4 years late to the party, but I wanted to share that this method saw me through my first XC flight (it was my first attempt and I managed to reach my goal, if I quit now I'll have a 100% success ratio), so thank you!
That’s awesome! Thank you so much for letting us know! Obrigado Daniel 🤗
that was cool man, thanks
SUPER! I think its best to put it on webpage so everyone can use it and learn thermaling.
Thank you I'll be using that
Virtual reality on a simulator , even on a GForce trainer of Thomas Grabner would be amazing!
Look at Glider Sim on Steam! It has VR and is pretty good.
I will try this method during my next glider flight.
I will tell you
Thank you very much for the tip
Awesome, look forward to getting you thoughts on it Bernard
Hi, you’re a good instructor, thank you. Learning tool in 3D is my choice- f I like multiplayer idea.
As it is it's a very interesting tool. I'd love a VR game more...
Thanks!
Just came across this, interesting! I wonder if there has been any progress on the project, maybe I'm about to find out when I watch some of your newer videos.. 👍🏻
This is an incredible explanation! Thank you! Please develop this further! World Cup XC on-line fly in! Super Cool!
The winners could win Ethereum smart contract.
This is the development so far :) czcams.com/video/hRmYQm9Qp-A/video.html
And this is what we have working at the moment
rcastro.itch.io/paragame
Thanks for the support! :)