Compressor-Stall! Mentour Pilot explains.
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Go to www.audible.com/mentourpilot or text ‘MENTOURPILOT’ to 500500 to get one free audiobook, 2 free Audible originals and a 30-day free trial!
In this episode I will be discussing everything you need to know about compressor stalls or Engine surges. When a jet engine gets a compressor stall it´s similar to when a human coughs in the sense that something is not quite right but it is seldom lethal.
I will be explaining everything from how the jet engine works, how to diagnose the compressor stall to how the pilots should deal with the problem.
As always I would love to hear your comments about the vide and I would love it if you subscribed and told your friends about the channel.
If you want to continue discussing compressor stalls or anything aviation related, join me and thousands of other aviation enthusiasts in the FREE Mentour Aviation app! Use the link below to download the app! 👇
📲
To Join my Patreon crew, and support the channel and preview my videos. use the link below!
📲 / mentourpilot
If you are interested in following my life on Instagram, use the link below 👇
📲 / mentour_pilot
A huge "Thank you" to the channels that were featured in today's episode! Use the links below to see the full AWESOME videos! 👇
Reed Skyllingstad ( Boeing Compressor stall Training video)
• Boeing Compressor Stal...
AgentJayZ ( Compressors - Turbine engines: A closer look)
• Compressors - Turbine ...
Vikitorski Zhao (Engine instruments during compressor stall)
• ENGINE COMPRESSOR STALL
CubanoSrA (Testbed engine compressor stall)
• P&W-F100-220C Engine S...
Air Safety News 24/7
• Video
I'm surprised and honored to see you used a bit of my footage. OK by me, because you are a trusted source/cool guy. I watch your vids quite a bit.
Thank you!! Yes, if I find a good source of video I tend to borrow some of it but I always leave a link and credit to the original user.
Dude. You are the ultimate authority on all things about jet engines on CZcams. Stop selling yourself short. Your jet engine videos are the only ones worth watching. I just wish I could visit you one of these days inside your business. I bet you have a lot more shop stores then you can make videos of.
you are the best
Hey AgentJayZ you here? I am one of your subscribers m8. You are a cool dude. Take care bud 👍
As
While doing a high power ground run on a 747-400 with Rolls Royce RB 211-524G2's,
I was standing near the nose wheel when the #2 engine set at takeoff thrust suddenly stalled/surged throwing a flash of flame out past the fan & heading right for me, accompanied by a huge BOOM with the aircraft violently yawing despite all the wheels being chocked!
No damage was done thankfully, but I think that's the closest I've ever come to crapping myself💩
Loved seeing your two sofa loving friends. Oddly, they add a real dimension of humanity. They exude such a calm vibe that it helps me stay focused while you discuss engine difficulty/diagnoses and explain that it, while serious, is something you train for. More than I can say for failure training in my industry. Thanks again.
Or .... there’s a pilot talking about plane in a dog video
Very good information, presented in the standard reliable and accurate way, with one minor exception. British Midland's Flight #92 was a 737-400, and the pilots had recently transferred from the 737-300. In the 300, the air conditioning system was fed by only one engine. The pilots noted smoke coming in through the air conditioning system, so they believed that isolated the damaged engine and they shut it down. But on the 737-400, which is what they were flying, the air conditioning system was driven by both engines, so they ended up shutting down the good engine. But this stabilized the issue for a short time, because they reduced the throttle setting as part of the procedure. It seemed at first that they had made the proper choice. But the bad engine which was now the only one providing thrust, was continuing to damage itself. And when that damage reached a critical level, the problem returned, leading to a complete loss of thrust.
Beastt17 At 14:17 he says problem with engine surging, in fact it was a fan blade failure.
Gordon Richardson, I know about as much about turbine engine failures as I know about neurosurgery (nothing), but can't a fan blade failure cause engine surging?
Beastt17 Yes it can, but the details are important.
And impacting on a motrway involving people on the ground. When you are the PIC, I was taught that ground people safety is a priority. The PIC went from hero to zero when the black boxes were found.
the_punnisher There were substantive errors in the instrument layout and checklist training, which were contributory factors. Subsequent changes led to improved safety. The same with many other crashes.
Years ago I was in the aisle seat of a 727 with my boss in the window seat right next to the starboard engine. flight from Chicago to Newark. Upon landing, the pilots kept the thrust reverses engaged too long. When we were almost to the taxiway after landing, the engine "sneezed" as described by Petter. I knew what was happening, but I was sure my boss was going to soil his shorts. Fun and educational experience, but I didn't hear thrust reverser abuse listed as a possible cause in the video.
The 737 -400 that crashed on the M1 motorway in 1989 flew directly over our house in Leicester, and I remember hearing the bangs from the engine surges and saying to my parents that doesn't sound right. It was repeated irregular bangs, every few seconds just like in the footage you showed.
Alan Jewell Interesting. The actual cause was a fan blade failure, with subsequent consequences.
@@gordonrichardson2972 The engine continued to produce thrust at low settings but they needed more to maintain height for the final approach at which point it finally failed completely. It landed literally metres short of the airport boundary fence, crashing on the bank of the northbound carrigeway. The first set of landing lights were at the top of the M1 bank so 5 - 10 metres more altitude and they would have made flat ground albeit demolishing a lot of installations. Still lives with me today, hearing the noises then a short while later going to my room to do some homework, putting on local radio & hearing rolling coverage of the crash...
I am glad that Molly and Patxi allowed you back on their couch. 😊
Living with a maltipoo and a fascination for aviation myself (and with my wonderful wife, of course ;D - not being a pilot myself, though), your videos are a double win almost every time. Thank you! :D
This was another absolutely fantastic video and a great explanation about compressor stalls. Thank you!!!!!!
I used to work on centrifugal air compressors and they would also surge, stall or burp. "Momentary air flow reversal". It was bad because of the heat of compression reversing. A few of those in a row could ruin the machine, so there were safety controls to unload it should it surge a few times. It was quite interesting to understand the theory of moving a mass of air and balancing the flow and pressure when setting up the controls.
An excellent, well presented video. Clear and concise and very informative. Keep up the good work
Excellent description of compressor stall, we suffered this year's ago on a flight from Manchester to the Canary islands, Thompson flight.
Very very cute doggies at peace with your voice, very nice to see.
The white one looks exactly like ours lol.
Those dogs are so cute! Nice video captain
Mentour Pilot thanks for given us these tips , I am very happy because these tips are going to help me a lot in the future . Greetings from Colombia
5:59 that's the most adorable doggy stretch ever :-).
Yes !! That stretch was cute
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Very good explained, thank you very much! 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing information, doing ATPL systems and this was a major help
Yours videos are informative and just plain great
Remember the days when aircraft would spin in mid air I'm going back decades when you used to hear about that kind of thing ,it was almost always fatal , a video explaining why that can or used to happen would be interesting Peter, happy New year by the way John ( Ireland )
Probably aerodynamic stalls
man nice video, love all your videos always.
Your dog is adorable!
Thanks for your explanations.😊
great video, thanks for the excellent content , i had them in a climb and with no previous exposure, wound up diverting .
Great video Mentour I enjoyed watching it, have a great weekend.
Bravo and Thank you very much for this video ! Merci.
Hi ! Peter ! As in personal life, belifs can bring us trust. Thanks to you I believe that pilots are able to fly nearly whatever happens. I believe that planes, systems and procedures are made to reach the land whatever happens. Bringing us trust in your job as in your live is honorific to you. Even if I don't need to fly 😉 Thanks a lot for sharing your passion 🙂
Are you mocking his accent? Poor Petter! 🙂
Love the dogs , good info too
Hey Peter, a question for you (maybe you could make a video about it):
As a 737 pilot, is there another plane you would like to fly someday? Which one? Both in Boeing and Airbus.
Keep making good stuff!
Really awesome explanation !
That incident you talked about where the pilots of that 737-400 shut down the wrong engine was an episode of the show "Air Disasters". The episode is called "Choosing Sides". The aircraft was shaking so violently, the co-pilot couldn't tell which engine had surged on the display panel. Scary! The surge was caused by a fan blade coming off and getting sucked into engine 1.
very informative and educational, also entertaining
Very clear. Thank's
AgentJayZ - love his tech videos on turbines.
As always, fantastic
The dogs are like "we hear daddy's voice, it's comforting and we're going to sleep" lol
Great description!
Please @MentourPilot, do a video about military operations using commercial airlines. Parachuting comes to mind. Thanks.
I really enjoy this topic!!
Very informative video
Thanks
Glad you liked it!
@@MentourPilot why don't they have cameras near the engines so you can see what's going on
Your videos are great !
Got 10 of 11 on the after vid quiz, pretty cool!
Thank you Mentour pilot sorry i'm busy sneezing . but Thank you for your videos I just got back from Hawaii now I'm suffering a Bad cold . when i got back i was still in shorts and Bare feet
Interesting, thankyou.
Hi Mentour - in your windshear video there was a lot of discussion of the flight director - and its role in the escape manoeuvre. As a non-pilot I'd be keen to understand what the flight director is and its relationship to the other automation. Just a thought in case you're stuck for a topic one day :) Enjoying the channel, btw. Cheers.
Basically it is a magenta line (actually 2 lines) vertical and horizontal that tells the pilots what the autopilot would do if you would engage it. The plane basically tells you how to perform the manuever you selected on the autopilot...if you connected it would do that
Quality lessons, quality yaw damper. Holy rudder👍
I was just on a BA flight from LHR to IAH (Boeing 779) which had an engine surge 5 hours into the flight overhead Canada, it was quite a loud bang as it happened which as can be imagined caused quite a considerable mount of concern amongst the passengers, the Captain having consulted with ops made the decision to head back to LHR again which caused some considerable concern heading back over the Atlantic following this event, thankfully all ended well.
no you wren't
@@MarkStoddard wren’t ????????
Thanks as ever
Hi. why there are no cameras installed around the aircraft in order to monitor critical areas like engines, wings, gear, etc.
And to make cool videos!
That's what the gauges are for on the instrument panel...
mezsh gauges can’t tell you everything there have been instances where a visual confirmation of a issue would have created a better outcome this is actually a really good question.
@@cookie125 small cameras with small projector on top, can give the pilots good indication for faults alarm or any visual object that pilots cannot see or measure with gauge.
Fuel costs, and decrease in performance. Everything has redundancy. Not to forget possible engine failure due to damage from Foreign Object Impact. The cost would not be worth it.
thank u Mentor!!!
How to cure "engine cough": Take two aspirin and a can of WD-40. (Okay, I thought that was a funny line.) Really cool episode. I always learn something great on your channel, Captain!
Dont forget to give it a blanket and pillow for good rest
Very informative illustrations of aircraft engine physics.
When can we talk about Toy Poodles Captain?
Love your dog. Does he/she/it moonlight as a737MAX PIC or an FAA official? Trained for both jobs I see.
You mentioned the difficulty to identify the engine with the compressor stall, because compressor stall is not a continuous phenomenon. By the time you notice it it's already gone, and you can't see it on your gauges (EGT).
My question is, if there is any kind of data logger that is available to the pilot in the cockpit ?
If such logger exist then the 1st officer (or whoever is not flying the airplane) can querry it in real time and get the correct answer - no need to reduce throttle on the wrong engine.
Thx for any comments.
ME: know what is compressor stall but still watch because it’s a Mentour Pilot
Hello, I got a serious question (I peeked at your channel and you seem like a real pilot), here goes:
did the pilots of that Philippine Airlines Flight 113 (Boeing 777) that had this compressor stall last November, did the right thing of immediately landing the plane?
(because I've read in some comments back then that the pilots were wrong, they should have dumped fuel first before landing, and that engine surge was nothing to be alarmed of if the pilots know what they're doing?
)
Thank you! :)
Band-Maid Sheep you commented on a comment bud, maybe comment on the actual video instead
@@hashtagjeff6727 am I asking you?
@@band-maidsheep2665 sorry, i think my brother replied to your question, please excuse him
@@hashtagjeff6727 weird indian dude lol
Excellent !!! Your Buddies are cute !! As someone said the stretch was " so podgy and cute "
Saw a Boeing 747 take off out of LAX Jam. 17th. 2024 and saw a compressor stall event on the number 4 engine on climb out.
Hello😊😊
What we do when aircraft gear is jam pleas make one video on this topic
Hi I love your videos ,I’m a 747 pilot and I have a question was the difference between engine surge and engine stall . Thank you
Awesome!
"Can anyone fly a plane?" That dog would raise it's paw and say YES!
We always tell pilots how you know 100% it's a compressor stall is by the same pattern for every compressor stall that happens.
You can see your RPM winding back, and your EGT/ITT/FTIT either increase or decrease based on your altitude.
If that happens then pull throttle back to idle. And you can also do the steps mentour said too.
Have a good weekend @mentour and everybody else.
What about the intermittent yawing? Wouldn't intermittent yawing impulses yield useful information too, all of them to the same side and all of them short bursts?
@@grizzlygrizzle true..but the problem with intermittent problem is that occurs for a short time, and then goes away. so that could be a few different problems that would have to be investigated on the ground, the pilots would of made a note of it in the handbook.
@grizzlygrizzle Believe it or not, it is quite difficult to pinpoint the offending engine from the impulse yawing. It isn't a neat little impulse in only one direction, but an oscillation (due to the correcting influence of the vertical stabilizer compounded by the inertia of the airplane) that is felt with a delay because of the elasticity of the wings and fuselage. The explosive sound of the stall is felt as a conduction of the sound vibration through the structure that travels much faster than the yaw motion, as well as by sound conduction through the air, which is slower than conduction through the fuselage. Additionally, the yaw damper may try to act against the yaw impulse and produce a yawing motion that has its own oscillation period. Human perception of the event predictably becomes a complicated mess that is difficult to sort out. The most reliable discrimination to correctly pinpoint the offending engine will come from the engine performance indicators.
I used to be an aircraft mechanic (hydraulics specialist) for the USAF. At my last active-duty station, I saw a B-2 experience repeated compressor stalls during a ground engine run, and it about scared the crap out of me. I thought the silly thing was going to blow the f* up until an engine tech explained to me what was actually happening. It was scary to see flames and smoke coming out of both ends of the engine pod. I wish I could have gotten pictures, but, y'know. Security.
please explain about the compressor bleed air removal to prevent stalling
High angle of attack and low airspeed in a max aft CG condition on some airplanes is far more prone to stalling the engine than others. Thats part of the reason for variable inlet configuration on some performance jet requirements - to compensate for extremes in airspeed. There is a limit to the angle of airflow across/ into the inlet.
That fire that randomly leaps out of the front of the engine is not unlike standing next to the barrel of a 50 caliber machine gun in rapid fire. The concussion has a way of shaking things apart quickly.
Watch your deck angle...
Robert White fighter jets also have stator blades to prevent engine surges, ramjet and scramjet engines doesn’t have any stator blades which their thrust is very powerful and push planes well over Mach 6
I'm puzzled… care to explain how the CG location can cause a compressor stall?
@@petep.2092 If the airflow is interrupted into the engine inlet, it will stall. At a high angle of attack, full flaps, slats and speed brakes deployed, the airflow over the wing is a turbulent vacuum directly in front of aft fuselage mounted engines. It sounds like being next to a 50 caliber machine gun. Not a pleasant experience. I was running data pulls in the back of the cabin on the data system and nearly pissed myself...
Not too loud, you'll wake Molly!
As a passenger this is very interesting. I'm curious about how a compressor stall would compare with fuel contamination or fuel starvation to one engine. I'd imagine less likelihood of excessive EGT in those scenarios but otherwise might these initially manifest similarly to a compressor stall?
Oh my goodness. I experienced this as a passenger several years ago during a regional flight from Ohio to Baltimore, Maryland. We were aboard an older McDonnell Douglas MD-80 series plane, the early summer weather was good with clear skies and very little wind. Takeoff was completely normal, but as we climbed there was a sudden huge bang from the #2 engine followed by an immediate severe yawl of the aircraft and violent shuddering of the entire plane. My first thought was that planes weren't supposed to fly sideways and that we were going down...
As we continued to climb there were several more loud bangs with intense shaking and I could hear the pilot throttling back the affected engine. The banging stopped momentarily and we began circling the airport while continuing to climb. The pilot made several attempts to re-engage the engine, but the banging would start again when the thrust was increased. He then shut the engine down completely and we continued circling, I assume to dump fuel for an urgent landing since the plane was full and we had also taken on fuel so we would have been quite heavy for a landing.
We obviously landed safely (kudos to the flight crew for their management of the situation) and the airline brought in another plane to continue the flight to Baltimore. The experience, while handled very professionally by the crew, was terrifying and I admit to not flying since. I love flying and have been flying since I was a small child logging several hundred hours as a passenger, but I have not been able to break through the fear and get back on the horse since this incident. However, this video did help to explain what was going on, so I thank you very much for posting about this subject.
Edit: Just looked up the incident; discovered the bird involved was a Killdeer: 2011-10-12 11:50 (KDAY) JAMES M COX DAYTON INTL (DAL) DELTA AIR LINES MD-88 D N Killdeer
Hello Commander! I Really Like your New advancements in explaining things. But I am not sure of the white thing you pointed to. T-Shirt? Great Graphics! Dogs. Dogs. Dogs. Awesome! Thnx! CJ
Last Question: In a 737, can you see the engines from the flight deck? Would that be part of deciding which engine it is? BTW, love them dogs!
No, you can't. You can only see the wing
Sir your dog is very cute
I love the mentour pilot livery on the 737 model. I totally would pay money to get that on a 737 in Flight Simulator X.
If you're talking about the 3D modeled aircraft at the opening of the show, that's actually a 777, rather than a 737.
@@Beastt17 oops, my bad, I should know better on an aviation channel. I'd still love to use it in the sim.
Yay!
Wonder if these stalls are more frequent in summer vs. winter?
Could you talk about the chronometer use in a 737? Also, about "hot start", "wet start", "oil pressure not rising" etc? Thanks!
On a hot start rpm will increase slower than normal and fan turbine inlet temp rises rapidly and will run away if not paying attention, unlike a engine stagnation where rpm will almost stop but engine temp will climb. Can be caused by engine core degradation, meaning blade tip clearances are excessive caused by the engine not properly thermally equalized during start or multiple max limit blade blends, bleed air or fuel control issues. Oil pressure issues can be an indicator in the cabin, oil pressure transmitter on the engine, accessory cables, oil or scavenge pump.
@@Vancesez Thanks!!!
if you have a problem while flying, use this to remember: F.I.R.S.T. (F)fly the airplane, (I)identify the problem, (R)read the aircraft checklist for a solution, (S)start applying the solution, (T)think about the first place you can land safely to have the problem checked and fixed.
There is also P.I.O.S.E.E but it's probably easier to remember the word FIRST. : Problem
: What is the problem?
Information: What information do you have about the problem
?
Options
: What options do you have in order to deal with the problem?
Select: Select one of these options
Execute
: Execute the option you selected
Evaluate: Is what you decided to do really the best decision?
@@noah9130 good one, but the first thing should always be fly the airplane if possible.
michael king Of course! We also have aviate, navigate and communicate.
@@noah9130 yep, totally agree
Question: When the engine is working correctly, is the exhaust coming out as a vortex (like a wingtip vortex), or is it just straight flow?
Cliff Jones The exhaust flow is mostly straight after the turbine and jet pipe.
Any rotational momentum is energy that is not being used to push the aircraft forward. So it is good to minimize it in the design. Air that exits the compressor section should be completely disrupted in the burners. It would be in the turbine section that you might impart some rotation by the action of pulling energy out of the flow and converting it to rotation. But turbines have stators too.
As an aside, the mechanism is different for wingtip vortices. That's partly caused by the air trying to leak from the higher pressure under the wing to the lower pressure region on top. In the engine, the air is getting dragged around and pushed around.
Why am i watching this channel over and over again
?
I’m kind of hoping you like it?
@@MentourPilot For sure!
One question sir what if the last ring of compression goes bad will it effect the engine?
Can a high density altitude be a reason for a compressor stall? Especially without fadec?
@mentour pilot , Great video, you are so knowledgeable in aviation, I’m still trying to get a question answered by you ,is idle an engine on a plane the same as a car engine in idle?
Thank you
Andrew Simonsen Idle on a jet engine is a lot closer to maximum RPM, than on a petrol engine.
Gordon Richardson damn , my Brain not understanding your reply , thank you for your help
Cough only when it turns it head. Otherwise just a burp and fart. Seriously, Olde flame outs were all described as these noises. I was freelance mechanic on 737 intakes.
Do pilots have access to on board wifi while they're up at cruising height?
Does the captain always log their time as pic? How does the first officer log their time?
Someone I know was on a 737 in extreme cold weather and that happened just before V1 with lots of flames. The pilot aborted the takeoff and after a fast taxi back immediately had another go. Is this more common in extreme cold?
Speaking of monitoring the engines, wouldn't it make sense to have camera (in modern aircraft) watching over the front and back of both engines, visible in the cockpit ?
Hello, thanks for the vid. I have a question regarding identification of the compressor stall, is there a chance you would get a Fire Warning when having a Compressor stall?
Generally, no. The fire warning is triggered by sensors monitoring the space between the engine casing and the cowling/nacelle, where you'd find the fuel manifold, accessory drive, stator actuator mechanisms, bleed air valves, etc. A simple compressor stall would be unlikely to rupture the engine casing and have hot gases trigger the fire sensors, though a compressor stall could conceivably be violent enough to cause compressor or turbine blades to break off and then stresses from rotor imbalance and vibration could cause rotor disintegration and that debris is more difficult to contain within the casing.
Hi mentor pilot, in the case of engine surge or stall. Is there a way of recognising a probability: such as;
+ maintenance intervals
+avgas
+ temperatures air/engine
Could some engines be more prone e.g Rolls-Royce v GE.
After an engine surge and the aircraft and engine is back under control, is it mandatory to land at the nearest airport or has the captain the option to make the decision to carry on flying ?
More More More!!!
Wish I had two.
Could such a situation happen with a turboprop engine?
Seems like it would be a simple matter of integrating a stall detector in each engine which would latch on and indicate which engine had a stall. But of course I don't fully understand the situation 😁
while in the US Navy we had a couple of our planes (T2a Buckeye Trainers) suffer from what was called, "Flame outs" is this sort of related to this compressor stall?
It is exact me that lying beside you when my instructor explained about compressor stall 😅😅 just kidding
10:00 I think one of the crew members onboard the British midland flight turned off the wrong engine.
Does always autopilot disconnect in case of engine stall?
Can you explain what is RNAV.
Also mention too high angle of attack and damaged inlet cowl as possible causes of compressed stall
Can the bleed air be contaminated during a stall/surge, since exhaust air would be backflowing through the compressor stages?