Automakers Don't Want You To Buy EVs
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Automakers have put out an ever expanding range of electric vehicles. And those EVs are available at more price points and abilities than we've had at any point in the market before. And yet, many automakers are reluctant to have you buy their EVs.
Why? Nikki digs in.
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00:00 - Introduction
02:04 - Some brief admissions
04:25 - Pricing
06:19 - Incentives
07:59 - Kickbacks
08:25 - The benefits to them of lease returns
10:31 - The battery is worth a lot
12:40 - Parts supply
14:37 - Subscription services
16:30 - Keeping up with the technology
17:27 - Conclusions
18:12 - Thanks and Credits
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Script: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Presenter: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Editor, Colorist: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield, Kate Walton-Elliott
Art and Animation: Erin Carlie
Producer: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
© Transport Evolved LLC, 2024
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To quote Dave Ramsey, "A lease is a fleece!"
My only problem is I never seem to get to the second step of "Own Nothing, Be Happy".
You vill take ze vaccine and you vill eat ze bugs!
In the old days everyone had a horse and only the rich had cars. Now everyone has cars and only the rich have horses.
Whaat a contry! - Yaakov Smirnov
It's a misunderstanding that everybody had a horse in the old days. It took a combination of personal labor, space and money that most people couldn't afford at any era in history.
@@AlRoderick This, very few people had a horse. Apart from the nobility, the sort of people who owned horses would be the same sort of people who owned a commercial, vocational or agricultural vehicle.
@@AlRoderick I think they did a lot of leases
not really, in third world also poor farmers have horses
I've heard the argument that you should lease an EV instead of own one because the battery technology will be quickly out of date, thus creating a lot of depreciation. I will counter this with three points:
Point 1: The manufacturer knows that the car will depreciate and is already considering this when they set the price of the lease. So, if you believe that leasing is cheaper than owning, what you are really saying is that the manufacturer misjudged, and that you know better than they know how quickly the car will really depreciate. This is something I would personally loathe to take a bet on, as companies that actually sell cars know far more about used car pricing than I do.
Point 2: Even a car that is technologically out of date is still worth something, so long as it's driveable. This is especially true for EVs, as all the advances in range and charging speed only really matter if you either lack the ability to home-charging or take the car out on road trips. If you have home charging and simply want a car to drive around town (especially for people that still have a gas car in their driveway for longer trips), an old EV is plenty good enough, which is why even old Leafs, which are, today, extremely out of date, still have value.
Point 3: The total depreciation over a vehicle's lifetime is, by definition, equal to the price paid for the car when it is new. Thus, if you want to buy an EV without huge depreciation, the simplest and most cost-effective solution is to just buy a cheaper EV. For example, my Bolt has so far held its value after 3 years of ownership about as well as the gas-powered Honda Civic I owned previously. Even if, after 10 years, the Bolt's value decreases to under $5,000, that would still equate to an average annual depreciation of just over $2,000 per year, which is very respectable. A more expensive EV like an Ioniq 5 or Tesla Model 3 would have depreciated a lot more during that time because it's starting from a higher price point, and I would imagine the 3-year depreciation of those $100,000+ cars to be even higher. The same argument is really true for gas cars also - expensive cars are wastes of money, period, no matter what powers them.
Bottom line: if you want to save money driving (whether electric or otherwise), the solution is not to lease instead of buy, it's to choose a car that costs less.
I think the battery depreciation was more of the issue some years ago - when one generation say of Hyundai Ioniq only got maybe 80 miles of usable range and then it all changed to long ranges... or Leaf, now I am perfectly fine with today's say Tesla battery charging and range performance, and if I get 8 year warranty on that, it is fine. But I would still like the range to be bigger so I would cover the winter driving where I live since I do not yet home charging ability, but maybe it would not matter as much if I could home charge.
I don't think that now batteries will suddenly become 10x better, yes they will be cheaper and with extra range and maybe you will be able to charge them on fast charger (if you find one that charges as quick) in 10 mins, but that is not super important for vast majority of people
I prefer to buy a lightly-used vehicle and let someone else take the depreciation hit. The depreciation curve is at its steepest in the first 2-3 years of the vehicle's life.
BRAVO! well written! This writer agrees and follows your path. He owns a 2019 NIRO BEV, bought used, has home charging, and just putts about in it. And it bought, not leased
Thank you for posting this!
The car driving public needs to get fully educated about the automaker / dealership (stealership) model.
The Right to Repair is also a significant problem. We have entered an era of technical obfuscation and mere mortals are at the mercy of the manufacturing behemoths. This is probably one of the most significant factors in resource abuse. Considering vehicles being scrapped due to automakers ceasing to provide parts.
Great post! You mention important issues.
The elites don’t want the middle class to have personal transportation. The laws of physics are catching up with climate fraud.
Well if you’ve had any experience with old, and I really do mean old like 50+ year old vehicles then you’ll realize there’s a reason why parts availability is a thing for some rather than all cars past a certain point.
All this makes me want an Aptera more.
This writer agrees, now its wait and see for the Aptera
Had way too many times overpriced repair or milage fees from rental companies to ever considering a lease. As mentioned in the video, it’s financially more interesting for automakers and dealership, because in the end you pay way more than the monthly leasing price.
Yeah, if they like leases then it's not the best deal for the consumer.
You have to do a lot of fuzzy math & dark arts to make a lease a good deal
The dealership was quite surprided when I paid cash for my new EV. I believe in saving up for something and paying for it outright. You just have to wait a bit longer before getting it. The only exception is my house which, unfortunately, was far too expensive to buy outright straight away.
I look at all of this from the perspective of someone who has always bought lightly used vehicles and driven them until they're essentially no longer worth maintaining. That could end up being anywhere from 10 to 15 beyond the manufacture date (my final gasoline car, a 1995 Saturn, was 19 years old when I moved on.) I watch EV channels like this one to see what's new and then put a mental place marker on it, knowing that the first possible chance I would get to own that particular vehicle would be at least 2 to 3 years into the future, not while the rich & famous are lining up at the showroom and signing their paperwork as those vehicle roll off the production line.
People occupying income classes above mine are the ones leasing new vehicles. They have budgeted around the fact that they're comfortable always making monthly car payments for the rest of their lives, yet perpetually only 2 to 3 years out of date from bragging rights of being able to say they have the latest & greatest parked out front. They're the ones who also have to cough up extra money to fix minor wear & tear when they have to turn in their borrowed ride back to the dealership, not me. I'm perfectly fine picking up their cleaned-up hand-me-downs for pennies on the dollar, all while being able to take advantage of transferable factory warranties on major mechanical/electrical componentry, often many years after I've made my final purchase payment.
In case you want a used EV, I highly recommend a model with lithium iron phosphate battery. To my knowledge only the tesla model 3 standard range comes with one in the US market. And of those only from 2021 and only cars built in China. LFP batteries can be charged 3 times more compared to NMC or NCA batteries. They can withstand significantly higher temperatures without degrading, and can be charged to 100% regularly without degrading. All this increases your chances of finding a car with nearly all of its life left.
My issue with recent cars is that reparability is getting worse and they're overloaded with tech. The bottom end of the new car market has disappeared as nobody can work out how to make a very basic car and a profit at the same time so your future used car has ever more gadgets in it that can go wrong.
@@dgurevich1 Yes, I fully agree regarding LFP. My growing collection of small solar generators (ie: all-in-one boxes with MPPT charge controller, battery and AC inverter out) all have LFP cells and I couldn't be happier there. The 2012 i-MiEV I drive was built as an LMO cell car. I was able to get a new pack as a free warranty replacement in 2020. The local dealer was actually very helpful through that process. Also, I know how to really care for this battery now (20-80% cycling regimes, don't charge when it's too hot out here in the Arizona desert, etc.)
I'm looking forward to an affordable LFP cell car for sale in the US marketplace (current Teslas, while nice, aren't exactly within my budget, even used.) When the Bolt relaunches, circa 2025, GM has reported that at least one trim level will be LFP equipped. So, 2 or 3 years later, I'll be seriously scoping out lightly used ones. And who knows if the Chinese will formally enter the US market by then with LFP-equipped affordable cars, maybe even a sodium ion battery one? Baring unforeseen circumstances, the i-MiEV will be 15 years old in 2027 and I'll probably want to retire it at that point anyway.
Has it not been like that always? I recall people talking about that in early 2010s that they ''don't not make em as they used to'' but now I drive 2012 Opel Astra and it gives me no issues so far. Granted there are not that many bells and whistles in that one yet, but I would also hope since we develop technologically, even younger cars are easier to repair in smaller repair shops etc. I mean maybe it is a mystery still how to fix Model 3 for many now, but it will not be in 10 years time, and I would assume battery tech will move forward as much as it will not cost a super great deal to replace a battery in 10 years.'
Also I think that when you buy say a 6 year old car, then all the natural ''lemons'' will be very evident by that time/you will see in the service history that the car had a very troubled past, so only the ''strong'' and better made and maintained cars survive to the secondary market
@@spankeyfish
@@spankeyfish That's why I felt very fortunate to be able to score a 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV as lightly used. It remains the most basic of EVs out there right now but, sadly, no longer in production. 😞
When I got it off a California used lot in 2015 and brought it back home to Arizona, nobody was servicing them locally just yet. So, I spent another $125 and bought a CD-ROM copy of the factory service manual. Very little has gone wrong with this car (save for a warranty-covered battery replacement) and the local Mitsu dealer now has a factory-certified EV tech. So, this manual was a repair insurance policy that I bought and have never had to cash in on. But it may come in handy again when that car becomes too much older and I'm better off with a private shop. The local community college is graduating EV techs and I'm guessing, with manual in hand, I'll be in good shape for quite some time.
Really good explanation of leasing. I’m a 30 year automotive veteran. You explained better than anybody I’ve ever heard.
It makes you wonder about the bureaucrats who built in the leasing loophole to the made in North America tax credits.
That could only be less than perfect in a world where special interest groups had outscale influence on government
Leasing a vehicle is never going to be the most cost effective way of purchasing a vehicle, but for many it is the only way they can afford a new vehicle.
Buying a vehicle used to be about how much a person could afford, many a young person's first car were often old and high-mileage. Todays young generation choose to rent their cars and after three years hand the keys back, it is less about value but living today. This was once called living on the never-never, it isn't new, there was a time when many people used to rent their TVs and washing machines.
Anyone leasing thinking that they are getting a good financial deal are kidding themselves. One outright payment is nearly always going to be the cheapest, and then everything else after that is on a sliding scale where the conveniency and attainability make the deal attractive.
From what I've seen a lot of people today (regardless of age), are getting car shares instead.
Car sharing is something that I hadn't heard of 10 years ago. (The very first car sharing started in Quebec in 1994)
Now, my sister (middle aged, like me) living in the big city, gets a car share vehicle to come out here in the suburbs to visit us.
This might be generic advice but there are too many exceptions. I've leased before (2013 Volt) where buying would have cost me double due to depreciation. I've brought used before (2018 Pacifica Hybrid) where if I'd waited 8 months could have got a new one of the same out of pocket. And I've brought new before (2015 Volt and 2020 Bolt) where I basically stole it the discounts were so good.
Never trust the dealer
Or private seller either. The private seller is more likely to clock back the car.
@@mbak7801 Kinda difficult to "clock back" a modern, digital car, is it not?
(Not saying it's impossible, mind you.)
Good video! I have never leased a car, as I’ve always felt that doing so was more expensive in the long run. I tend to hold onto cars for 10-12 years to get more value from them. However, I am investigating leasing an EV due to the rapid rate of change happening in the industry and the uncertainty of resale values. If I were planning to keep it for 10-12 years, resale wouldn’t be much of a concern, but the rapid rate of change in features may make me want to change cars sooner.
Perhaps cars will follow the cell phone model, where manufacturers will offer high trade-in offers on low-mileage/low-years models when you are also subscribed to their high-margin monthly services plans (FSD/BlueCruise/SuperCruise)…
There are very strong incentives for automakers to portray EVs as being unprofitable or less profitable. That allows them to loudly complain that they need subsidies or relief from regulations pushing markets towards EVs. Anything an OEM says about EV profitability should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Buy used or lease new are the best ways to get into an ev. Let the extra depreciation be their problem.
Legacy auto dealers are a nightmare for legacy auto makers. They gouged customers trying to buy electric vehicles.
Legacy auto dealers abused their customers by adding market price adjustments to gouge their customers for EVs
They added pricey add ons and other costs to pump up the prices and their profits.
Tesla has the right idea. Buy online. No hassle. No sitting in a show room for hours. No salesman BS. No crazy markups.
No I have to see my manager BS. With Tesla you can buy a vehicle in 5 minutes or less online. The dealers have no one to blame but themselves. The dealers are dragging the legacy auto makers down with them. The problem with legacy auto makers having slow sales leads back to the legacy auto dealers. They try to talk people out of buying and EV and want to put them in a gasoline car.
My father in law, had exactly this experience recently, he was only able to get the vehicle if he leased, there was no option to buy. Perhaps some automakers are quietly cheering on the "leasing-loophole" in the IRA. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks. Most of the comparisons of leasing and buying I have seen really minimized the difference in cost with the exception of tax advantages of a lease for a business. This was enlightening. I had frequently thought a lease for an EV with their rapidly changing technology was smart. Now I am no so sure.
As long as I'm able to afford it, I will always buy my car rather than lease. I don't want them controlling me which they essentially do if I lease.
Side note:I love the diversity in the b-roll
One big caveat in the argument "Buy vs. Lease" is that the list or catalogue prices of vehicles are highly inflated, even the MSRPs.
When dealers and/or automakers make the lease calculations, often they factor in prices with 25-20% discounts, which is more close to the "delivery cost" of the vehicle. This way the lease payments are more appealing.
One way to get around this trap is to sign for a lease, so that you get the better vehicle price and all accompanying goodies and "freebies", but pay it in full in the first weeks or month depending on the given lease contract and local legislation.
It's not a pretty or elegant method, but all is fair in love and war. And practically we are at war with the dealers, because I certainly don't love them!
I didn’t get any pressure from the dealership (Hyundai, Cambridge, England) to lease my Ioniq 5 rather than pay in full.
I’m planning to keep it for a long time: it’s got plenty of range for my needs, 800v architecture for fast charging on road trips, and long warranties. For all the talk of battery breakthroughs I will have enjoyed a long ownership before my car is outclassed, and even then I’ll pass it along to my son as a second car and keep the depreciation in the family
EV1 the best example... not to do...
Yeah, that baffles me too. Back in 2010/11, when the Leaf and i-MiEV came to the market and my richer friends were wanting to get one ASAP, the memory of the EV1 - and the scandal that lessees we're forbidden to outright buy them - was still a vivid memory for all of us. I was baffled that so many of these people were potentially going to relive that history and knew that coming into it.
Finances dictated that I wasn't going to participate one way or another back then, having to wait a few years until these cars finally became available as used. It all paid off for me in 2015, when I got a 2012 i-MiEV for a fraction of what they had gone for when new. 8+ years on, I still have it.
@@benjaminnead8557 top... I have something vintage... Opel Ampera is a sibling of Chevrolet volt.
A two door was seen as inferior to a four door? That's funny, it's been the exact opposite in US for a long time (maybe forever, idk). I think because two doors were seen as sportier cars that independent successful people had while four doors were seen as the boring, utilitarian family version.
2 door versions were frequently better looking than 4-door ver
Leasing devalues all other used cars and therefore artificially retires all cars earlier. This happens because leasing creates that artificial 3 year decision to lease another new car. Every 3 year old car that comes into the used car market, artificially saturates the used car market and oversupply reduces value of the oldest highest mileage cars. With the exception of exotics and sports cars, cars that are then too low of value to rationalize an expensive repair, drives the car owner to scrap it when it has a problem. Leasing drives churn instead of encouraging long car life, and thus makes them all less sustainable.
The only valid reason for a lease is how fast the EV world will be changing over the next 20 years. Other than when your lease is up there has to be something better for you on the market which won't always be the case.
Between the rate at which EV prices are being slashed at retail, slashed again on the used market, the rate at which new and allegedly groundbreaking new batteries are being introduced, etc. that still make the whole thing look like early adopter phase, I wouldn't want to buy an EV until things settle down and get more standardized, which I expect to take about 10 years.
If only those prices slashed didn’t start so high and the slashes actually brought EVs to affordable prices (sub/$25k), then things would be great.
don't wait for new wonderful battery technology, it is all vapour ware.
@@stevezodiac491 Lithium solid-state batteries are getting into some production EVs this year, same goes for sodium-ion batteries. Both have heaps of future development potential.
Solid-state electrolytes are practically a pre-requisite for solid metal anodes to wall off any dendrite formation and could boost cell energy density by another ~30%. Sodium for its part shows great promise for extreme environments, which could be great for reducing if not eliminating pre-conditioning prior to driving or charging. New sodium cells retain 80+% of their capacity for 6000+ 0-100% cycles, which makes battery degradation irrelevant as the battery should electrically outlive most cars by a million miles. Natron even makes Na-ion batteries rated for 50k 0-100% cycles for datacenter, grid-scale storage and fast-charger use, which it claims typically last 100k cycles.
Plenty of great stuff on the horizon, some of which already getting to various markets besides EVs.
To an extent yes, but just in 2017 which was less than 7 years ago it was hard to find a car in 40k range that would have a driving range suited for anything else than city driving/commuting... such cars had 100 mile range, maybe a bit more.
People who sit on the sidelines, passively watching the parade pass by, anticipating a golden moment when all the stars and planets align before making a move, miss out on years of taking advantage of what exists now.
Instead, these fearful folks desperately cling onto the past, trying to reassure themselves they’ll somehow know that perfect moment when it arrives, letting scores of excellent moments march on by.
This is important information. Really gets to how the trade offs and risks and rewards of different ways to have or own a car. Great video. Thank you!
If you're using it for business purposes, leases often work out better for tax deduction purposes.
I have never leased a car before I started using EVs. I strongly recommend leasing new cars for now simply due to the massive battery tech evolution. An Ev with small/old battery types will become more or less worthless when newer tech arrive. A simple example from Sweden, I leased a VW ID3 Max(565000SEK) for 3600SEK in 2020 for 24 Months(total cost: 86400 SEK), I was offered to buy the car for 400000:-, said no thx, the same car is now sold for abt 250000 SEK, three years later with similar mileage. Even if you factor in the incentives at that time, the depreciation is insane. I am still leasing EVs...
My employer has an arrangement with Octopus Energy (a fairly new renewable energy supplier in Britain and a number of other countries) to lease EVs to employees, much like "cycle to work schemes" but with the expectation that the vehicle will be returned. My understanding is that for Octopus the motivating factor iS (as you say in the video) recovering the batteries intact at the end of the cars' useful lives for 'second-life' use in grid-scale storage, since that doesn't require the battery pack to provide the tens-of-kW power dumps that a battery pack in an EV is expected to service.
At the end of a 3/4 year lease, the vehicle is still worth much more than the battery, so I doubt that is the Octopus business model.
@@charlesbridgford254the video did say some lease companies are re-leasing the vehicles - a total of 10 years. I still tend to agree though. The price of batteries has fallen massively and is expected to continue to fall.
A car rarely is a good investment, especially a new one. I only have bought used ones, kept them for several years and took good care of them like my i3.
What a great video topic! Very interesting...
Selling new vehicles is where profits come from. An auto manufacturer definitely want people to buy a new vehicle every 2 to 3 years. That has nothing to do with EV, they like you to lease ICE cars as well.
It is the Federal incentives that push buyers toward lease.
Another great expose, thanks for all you do! I came for the EV education, and stayed for the Star Trek earlobe rubs: hot. And Ian!
When considering lowering the amount of total cars produced in order to lower production emissions and what not, I think having yhe first 1/2 owners eat up depreciation for the first 5 years before having an outright owner on the 3rd owner isn't bad.
However, it sets an awkwrd precedent where the only cars that ever get spec'd and built are the ones that are deemed attractive to certain demographics; I'd argue that this has caused the notable increase in SUVs and cars that are mildly impractical for some settings. RIP Volvo sedans and Lotus cars that are suitable for UK roads
You're going to get a white/black/grey fully spec'd car for lease. 😂😂
Very interesting, thanks for the explanation
My current Fiat 500e Convertible is rented :D 24 month for €220 plus €13.5 service fee. I pay insurance though.
Very good video. Earned a new subscriber!
EV's in the next 5 or 10 years will have much improved batteries so it makes no sense to buy an EV. Leasing is the way to go especially considering maintenance. I haven't experienced issues but EVs are reported to have more maintenance issues; a sign of immature technology.
Good to know what the leasing landscape looks like.
Interlocking board members across OEM auto makers, oil companies, and associated financial businesses. Not to mention ad companies.
There are advantages to leasing for the customer other than cash flow. We hear of a miraculous new battery initiative about once a week, and although many of these will never achieve volume manufacture, it is clear that any car you can actually buy is already obsolescent.
We would love to lease another EV. When we got our Niro EV, we got it on a lease ($315/mo), with the intent to turn it in when the lease expired and get something else. That expiration was a year ago, and lease rates were so high that the lease on a new Niro EV was a whopping $865/mo. What we really wanted (EV6) was over $1200/mo. So we punted and got a loan from the credit union to pay off the balance on the car. That loan, with a middling interest rate, runs us $515/mo. Now I'm starting to see leases on things like the Ariya and IONIQ5 at under $500/mo, so am reconsidering our situation.
If anyone knows of a lease deal on an AWD EV similar in size to an EV6/IONIQ5/Ariya/etc. that is under $500/mo, I'd love to hear about it. Fast or quick or long range isn't an issue for us. We've taken two road trips of over 2,000 miles in our Niro EV and we don't mind stopping to charge when we need to. It's rarely a challenge.
I got screwed by a leasing company in the early eighties. It left a bad taste in my mouth so I doubt I would ever enter into another lease. I had to pay $5000 to get out of the lease. Today I probably would be able to use the lemon law to get out of the lease. Still I wouldn't lease again.
6:11 Loving the B roll footage of a typical mechanic and car purchaser 😂
Because of my 2020 Bolt LT lease after the battery recall I ended up with 2022 Bolt EUV Premier! Which ofc I bought at the end of the lease since my original buyout was only $21k which in my case happened to be not the 2020 Bolt LT anymore but the 2022 Bolt EUV with only 7500 miles. Great positive equity. Now thinking to replace it with Niro EV wind. Afraid that since BOlt is not produced and is not exactly clear if it really will come back which will make repairs difficult even though it still under full warranty.
I wouldn't get a nitro, not really a big upgrade from the bolt, jumping to an 800v ev like the ioniq5 or ev6 would be a better move if you need to get a bigger car imo
I tried a lease once--on a 2015 Chevy Volt . . . I was so far over my mileage, it was worth taking the hit to pay off my lease when I traded it in on a 2018 Bolt EV. Hell, my monthly payments barely changed, but yeah, I put miles on my car waaaay too fast. It sucks that the most affordable leases are 10-12k miles. I average, on the low end, 16k. I'll probably do over 20 this year on our Mach-E.
According to US DOE (Dept of Energy 2023 source statistics for 2022) in the USA, 3.4 M are registered BEV owners but this represents 1.2% of the total registered vehicles which is 276M.
The only time that leasing makes any financial sense at all is if you can write off the lease payments as a business expense.
Leasing your personal car makes the leasing companies VERY rich, which is exactly why they want you to do it.
The only reason I have leased a vehicle is to have the choice to buy it out at the end of the lease, or return it. If it's really clean I'll buy it because I can sell it for a lot more than the buy out price. If it has seen accidents, especially hail, it goes back to the dealer.
Private lease owners put on huge mileages and then clock them back to avoid paying lease penalty charges. Never buy a low mileage pre MOT car as it has probably been clocked back each year and can have a huge true mileage. There are people who for a fee can take many tens of thousands of miles off your car. Dealers are no longer the main culprit for this anymore.
Personally, I have leased vehicles long before EVs. I like cars, I like new cars, I know it's not fiscally responsible but if I couldn't splurge on myself what good is it. I have not had a bad experience with this in 25 years now. There are some cars that aren't leased by the car guys very often though, Ford was very against leasing for a long time in the 2000s and even 2010s in my experience.
I am considering a lease for my next car (first EV) as there look like there will be quite a few cars that will fit my needs within the next few years. Another plus for a lease is that you don’t have to get rid of the car yourself. I have bought most of my cars, and the one I leased I ended up buying off the lease (unfortunately it kept a fair bit of its value so the buyout was more).
Who set the buyout price?
@@paulas_lens Probably the dealership or lessor. It was back in 1990 for a Honda Civic AWD station wagon and I kept it at the end of the lease so had to buy it as a used car (with a loan). I don’t ever think that the leasing company ever saw the car. It was a great car until it got T-boned in the driver’s side by a Mercedes sedan.
With insurance skyrocketing soon you won't be able afford to buy or lease a car.
Historical perspective: Leasing has nearly always been promoted during times when the cost of loans were high. Many don’t realize this b/c the cost of money has been goofy low for the last 10 years. Since the early ‘80’s, leasing has been a regular tool to get buyers with less capability into a new car b/c the upfront and monthly is lower. And what dealer isnt’ happy for the extra ‘stir’ bringing customers back sooner.
I’m happy for leasing b/c as you mention, there’ll be more used EVs coming in 2.5-3 years.
USA is experiencing a repo tsunami. The resale value on 3-5 year old cars is putrid. People physically cannot afford to buy outright. Many can afford to lease, for a while at least. Once the car is sold and the money is in the manufacturers bank account, they don’t think about how it got there. Or what happens to the retail purchaser, financially
@@theairstig9164 Depreciation after new sale is usually high, but given the over-growth of new prices & inflated values for used cars in 2020 -> early 2023, it’s even worse as valuations are normalizing out some of the inflated value. --> big value crashes. Folks that bought used vehicles in 2020-early 2023 are getting the worst of it.
That’s true , I have seen some young people in uk doing just that , and they enjoy it
According to NADA in 2023, BEVs represented 7.2% of all light duty vehicles sold in the USA. That means approximately 1 in 14 people bought an EV. In addition, sales of Hybrids and PHEV increased sales to 7.6% which is slightly more than BEV sales. The legacy auto makers are slowing down their EV production as GM is slowing down BEV production and re-introducing PHEVs and Ford has reduced F-150 lightning production. Consumer Reports states that GM has “stop sale” on their new EV Blazer. Can Tesla alone increase BEV market share this year in 2024?
Profits on higher end models, lower borrowing costs, higher insurance rates, rate of interest, inflation, job layoffs, gas prices vs ev charging costs, maintenance costs, sales projections vs length of time vehicle on the lot, new brand competition, local incentives.
Leasing is cheaper for me. I dont want to sink the capital into an EV; Id rather invest it. Neither do I want to own a car that won't suit my needs in 4 year's time.
The total cost of leasing is cheaper than the depreciation over the term of the lease.
Leasing means that I get the exact spec of a new technology car, not a ragged example of a 4 year old car that isnt the spec I want.
The "You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy" comes to mind here. Yes, that IS the future the people at Davos plan for you.
EVs make the most sense as a lease option anyways. You're more likely to have predictable mileage figures per year, they require little to no maintenance in the first few years of their life, and the customer can return the vehicle before anything costly like batteries or inverters needs replacement.
That being said, I'm genuinely concerned for the future of right-to-repair and longevity of the vehicles if this becomes widespread. When vehicles are sold to a person, that person is under no obligation to visit the dealer for repairs or maintenance, and because many dealerships are money-grubbing scum, they'll go to an independent repair shop for their work. A leased vehicle, on the other hand, may contain a clause in the lease that it can only be serviced/repaired at the dealer or an approved repair facility or you'll be in violation of the terms, which I could see hitting independent shops pretty hard. A leased vehicle can be sold for scrap once it's a few years old, thereby depriving the used market of a vehicle. And even if they do get resold, if you experience major proprietary component failure (which manufacturers will have no interest in releasing to the aftermarket because they have no obligation to support the vehicle past its lease term) and can't repair the vehicle, it gets thrown away instead of repaired and reused.
This is not me taking the stance of "ICE vehicles are better because they have more things that break and can be fixed" this is me as a repair technician expressing concern for the future of the repair industry. My grandfather is also in fleet sales for Ford, and he and I have talked multiple times about Ford's lease-only stance with EVs putting them at odds with dealers, so that's also a concern of mine.
Brit in Sweden with a passion for Tesla. Tesla do not have a lease option for MX or MS... not a private lease anyway. Then there is the M3 and MY... their idea of a private lease is you still have to have 20% downpayment for the luxury of owning one of their cars. Way back they had a lease option where you put down a reservation fee (an amount well within most people's buckets). It sucks... I want to replace my Mach-e (it was a proper lease - thank you Ford dealership) with a My or MX... but I do not have that kind of 20% downpayment for the luxury. Here's the silly thing... I could take out a loan for the downpayment... the monthly cost for that, combined with the loan cost of the car is quite reasonable. I just think it's daft to have to do this.
Everything above sounds like questionable financial choice ^_^
So you are going to borrow the lease down payment privately on your own equity? I suppose it you can get a better interest rate why not finance a bigger down payment to reduce the monthly lease. 😂 Leases have made more sense for business use, depending on the business needs .
That's odd. A M3 lease in the UK is about £500 pm for an 'all-in' lease through salary sacrifice. No deposit.
@@charlesbridgford254 wait wut? Salary sacrifice for a tesla instead of ISA ? : D
@@sznikers Wouldn't get tax relief on an ISA, and it wouldn't get me to work....
A lot of people supporting buying over leasing. And fair enough, that makes sense. But... I don't think this is as for and dry as people are saying.
For one, the benefits of buying that accrue to the dealer are ones that I'm not really in position to take advantage of. Battery recycling and resale is out of my reach. Tax incentives are useful, but if I'm buying used like many in the comments, I'm not getting it regardless of whether the car qualified or not. And as mentioned, some cars may qualify with the lease option.
For two, the advancement of tech in EVs DOES MATTER. If standardized charging tech and bidirectional charging, let alone significantly better battery chemistry is coming in the next few years, then actually, no, I don't want to lock myself into cars that don't have that for 10 years. There's a tangible lifestyle benefit that goes beyond vanity or fashion.
The bigger picture is depreciation. Leasing does take the brunt of that depreciation since it's factored in. So that's a fair point. And I think things like bidirectional charging would change the proposition entirely: even if I get a new car at some point, the old one will probably still be a great home battery that we can still use when it makes sense. But we're not there yet with V2H/V2G.
Ultimately, I'm looking at the market speed up, not slow down, in terms of innovation and maturity. And that means it feels reasonable to not lock into one decision or another. If something comes up during that period that IS a sure bet, you can always jump on that then. But if I do need to change my car (which, I don't now), then I need to change my car.
Anyway. Unpopular and probably poorly explained opinion. Haha
The dealer can sell the story how much money is saved by not buying gas, and they can pluck a portion of those savings through extra profit from higher prices plus more bullshit fees.
I looked at leasing an model 3. The total cost was $18,000 for 3 years with only 10,000 miles per year. That works out to $.60 per mile. Ouch! My $24,000 hybrid gets 44mpg and the depreciation cost per mile is approximately $.15 per mile.
And please dont tell me how much you save on fuel. With local energy cost of $.19 and fuel price of $2.80 I wouldn't save much money even charging from home.
THIS IS 🎯
If I can spend what I pay in gas money now, to lease an EV instead, leasing an EV becomes a no-brainer, really... Even though the deal stinks in many ways.
You mention that the experience was different for Chevy Bolt owners from lessees during the battery recall but you didn't explain in what way they were different.
Were owners given a "we'll get around to you when WE are ready" treatment since owners are one & done while lessees have a contract with Chevy?
Perhaps you are hinting that the opposite was the case. That owners were taken care of right away but lease holders were left hanging out to dry.
I couldn't tell which situation you were trying to indicate was the case.
so if a lease is a better deal for the dealer, its got to be a worse deal for the customer.
WELL, seeing how battery packs cost anywhere from $30K to $60K
and eventually, ALL EVs will require a new battery pack, maybe
leasing would be the smarter move.
!
I doubt battery packs for Tesla cost 30k if they are able to sell Model 3 for 36k...Things is though they usually have 8 year warranty and rather high miles on battery too in a warranty, and I doubt people who buy cars, a lot of them will drive them whole 8 years, although it is of course possible... and let's say battery goes bad in year 10 of ownership with 150k miles on it, the car will probably at that time cost maybe 7-8k (if it is not a luxury vehicle), after 10 years of ownership, so if the battery goes bad it is not a huge loss anyway and probably just a few cells there are bad and you can sell it for re-use in battery storage or by the time there will be some guy that can fix it for you for reasonable amount. In more mature EV markets there are already people who even fix the old Leaf batteries, there is no reason to think 10 years from now it won't be easier and there won't be more people able to peer into the battery and fix the broken cells, unless of course car makers make the cars so you have to disassemble the whole car to repair batteries...
Also the fact that at least Tesla warranty is so generous makes me think that they indeed perhaps are not as bad or as expensive as they are said to be... it's more like there are few people at the moment outside of companies who make the cars, who know anything about them, so Tesla or whomever can charge you whatever they like for fix on battery.
Then there's also car makers who do not like that people have ability to fix... like ekhm Tesla, where there have been cases that people actually repair the batteries and totally wrecked Teslas, but then Tesla denies them access to Supercharger network... I do understand that Tesla does not want some franken-car to plug in and burn the whole site down but there should be some safety standard that, if independent repair shop can achieve, then the car should be allowed
A case for fake trees the amount of moisture in the atmo0sphere is half our electrical/lightning budget as opposed to SS PV balanse yaya
"Automakers", or 'dealerships'?!
Automakers just want to move product, while dealerships want to maximize profit per unit moved.
The current high interest rate environment is making it harder for many people to qualify for a new vehicle purchase will keeping a payment within an inflation constrained budget.
Many automakers are have begun bundling "free trail" mobile subscriptions into new vehicle purchases/leases. Access to connivence features via you mobile device is a nice selling feature, except the 2-3 years limitation in the fine print.
The catch (there's always one), for EVs is basic features like checking battery charge station, remote cabin conditioning, or just remote (un)locking of doors are often in the "premium" bundle of mobile subscription service. The basics subscription bundles are ICE specific features.
Hyundai/Kia
What the hell?!
I had never heard of this.
Thanks for the heads up.
👍
You probably should lease the first generation EV models from non-Tesla OEMS. They’re terrible. Why pay for that for five years and lose all that value?
Could you provide factual backup for your claim that all non-Teslas are terrible?
This is good content.
I have a question though.
Where does car sharing come into this market?
My sister does car sharing and it seems to work well for her.
I think more people in the big cities are getting vehicles this way.
One of the reasons for that is that in the big city near me, a parking stall costs as much as my suburban apartment!
No surprise that engineers love EVs. They're all about the tech and how to get the best out of it. That's why the engineers that built the GM EV1 made a really good EV when GM wanted them to make a lemon that sunk the whole EV project. GM were forced to recall and scrap the EV1 because it wasn't supposed to be a success. Engineers love solving problems. GM badly misjudged that.
Hey Nikki, you and Jonny and pretty much all other British motoring journos need to work on your pronunciation of "Vanden Plas" - hint: the s is not silent! It's a Dutch language name originating in Belgium. And the only reason I am singling out yourself and Jonny is that you both usually are very careful and considerate when pronouncing foreign brands and names, i.e. Mate Rimac and of course Škoda!
Leases are not really more affordable. The fact that they are more profitable for the automaker should remove all doubt. Leasing is a way to go through all of the pain and expense of financing a car and end up without a car at the end. OF COURSE THE DEALERSHIP WANTS YOU TO DO THAT.
And here I thought that going into debt *to a bank* to buy a shinier car would be the dumbest financial advice *from a bank* that anyone would fall for on a large scale.
If you can lease a new car, the same money can buy an older one. If anyone would give up complete ownership and control over their car to _look_ like they own something shinier, that person's chances of leading a fulfilling life are horribly reduced. You are acting like the bank designed you in a dream.
Many sources calling an EV slow down.
US EV sales - 2021:550,100 2022: 918,500 2023: 1.4 million.
Wishful thinking?
Actually, you seem to be getting ready to look for "a piece of" Dave Ramsey's 'Action.' Pretty cogent Financial Advice TEN is dispensing. (Watch out for "gangster Types," carrying Tommy Guns. {If that isn't too Star Trek a reference.})
Whoops Connect
This is whst csr manufacturers have been wanting tk fk gor at least fifty years, and if they can get governments to make legislstion based around envoironmental concerns to do this thrn they will have achieved this. If there is dome way to kerp car and battery manufacture and supply out of the hsnds if th gisnts then I think things will hsve a guture gor the customer
2:47 ah Sergio, people still bought your car, even when you said not to.
Gesundheit Akio
If you are considering an EV, leasing is probably the best option. I bought my EV, and I am now stuck with a 7 3/4 year old but only 39 k mileage vehicle with 33% degradation. The only thing is, if you do, lease all the other downsides of an EV still apply, like bad infrastructure, range anxiety, very poor range compared to ice etc. etc. the list is endless, so the best thing is probably just to buy an internal combustion engined car anyway and have less hassle, stress and financial loss.
it was just my imagination running away with me
Nap mache ak chifon pou nou afase nimewo
Most consumers dont want EVs. The big 3 are choking with oversupply they cant shift. Also have you looked at the reality of living with EVs? Look at what happened to Chicago!
Why should I buy an EV? They are twice the price and the yearly - losses of the costly prices!
They are hard to find free charging points for, and it takes a hell of a lot of time, doing it (In major Cities you may have to leave your job, to move the cars to an ordinary Parking Spot, if not charging any more!
You will own nothing and like it!
Please don't suggest that buying the hands-down best EV on the market says anything about one's support for Elon Musk. Do you research every other CEO before making a purchase? No, nobody cares about any other random CEO.
We never suggested that. But, we’d argue there are better cars available.
Tesla
normally I would say the car manufacturers are evil... but in this case, they are doing you a favor by encouraging you to lease. the resale value of EVs drop like a rock after 48 months or longer.
Pure electric vehicles aren't ready for prime-time. Hybrids are the way to go.
Can the canned video inserts get any more woke? Is there no end to propaganda? Stop it.
What exactly is woke? Give us time stamps!
While do I like the videos, I don't feel as though the canned inserts add value to them, and I personally think it would be better to not bother with them.
For what it's worth, I usually play these videos only for the audio, while my screen has other browser tabs active, so I don't actually see the video.
What exactly do you all mean by "Canned Video Inserts?" Are you talking about B-Roll? @@ab-tf5fl
Yes the “b-roll” as what else would be called canned video inserts? The supposed
‘anti-Semitic’ Star Trek in particular. Just like the greedy small money keepers in Harry Potter, these characters are considered to be derisive Jewish caricatures. Very frowned upon by some.
You don’t have to watch this channel.