'They Let You Pretend That You're Negotiating' - Francis Ngannou SLAMS The UFC Over Fighter Pay
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2022
- Patrick Bet-David Podcast Episode 142. In this short clip, Francis Ngannou explains how the UFC really needs to pay its fighters.
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If you hear Francis speak, audio only, without knowing who he is or seeing him, you would never guess he is a monstrous/terrifying fighter. He is very kind and soft spoken man.
His finishes are crazy violent. When he beat rosenstruk he was swinging on a corpse at one point. Yet hes so soft spoken and polite. Its scary 😂 lol
That's a black people trait. Our voices don't be marching our bodies. Listen to miike Tyson, Ronnie Coleman ect.
That’s the African Culture
Beat a guys ass with two blown knees why yell at people.
Most of them are
Conor didn't get that kind of leverage until after he fought Floyd because his pay out was HUGE!!! That Proper 12 opportunity came from boxing Floyd NOT from fighting for the UFC.
💟
Big facts!
that's wrong
Anyways they are independent contractors, Conor’s brand is completely independent from the ufc, the UFC’s brand benefited from Conor’s persona.
Thats not true, proper 12 was already on the market before the floyd fight, he just advertised it in a smart way and it for sure gave a huge boost to its popularity
As a Cameroonian, I'm happy to see Francis Ngannou shining his light on the world. Everything is possible.
Salut
Not any more
Francies Ngannue is like Muhammed Ali who refuse go to Vietnam war. Francies Ngannue sepose turned down UFC and 40.000 million offer. Who is greater? Or are they equal I hate Patric claime Dana White is so great and deserve 300.000 pay out. Hold on we have real brave ,powerfull hero and you don't even give him such a sphere of honor. It tell me enough about you and your stand the American version reality is scam contracts and bend any one who oppose thier rules.
They should cover fighter expenses. I've heard from numerous fighters that after they pay management, gym fees, etc., they sometimes even go into debt. If you're controlling every aspect of their pay, then you should also pay for their expenses so they can actually make a living off of the sport. I understand it's a business, but at the end of the day it's a business where your fighters are risking their lives and their health for the rest of their lives after their short-lived careers are over. You should value their contribution more and understand what business you're running in that regard.
It's OK saying they should pay this and that but people forget the ufc also have a lot of employees who set the stage and a thousand other things, conor showed the way so it's the fighters fault for having managers who are happy to sit by and collect upto 30 per cent of their fees, just manage themselves it's not that hard, he could be getting a lot of money from outside deals but again they hire so called managers, why didn't he leave instead of resigning contracts, he says your cornered but that's lazy he could move to another company the likes of conor made billions, its your responsibility to look after your concerns..... Oh and the expenses comment nobody is forcing them to have massive entourages outside of the coaches, you see them with 40 50 or more cling ons and they don't need to stay in expensive hotels, come on seriously.
Don't those get claimed as expenses for the fighter and therefore tax relief?
@@liverpoololdschool to your point I understand the mentality I'm pretty similar in thinking that if you're in this business you should really be business oriented like you said don't be flashy don't stay in expensive places... That being said I'm almost positive most (more then 50%) of fighters male/female don't have to with more then a dozen people in their group don't stay at fancy places. Most are just trying to keep the lights on. As far as expenses go, I like the idea of the UFC covering 'x' amount of costs like a flat across the board for everyone. So no one can abuse it and say that the gym cost this year was $50K or something ridiculous. Give your fighters a little bit to cover gym costs so they can actually keep some of fighter pay after expenses.
@@B-RaDD it's the fighters managers that are the problem mate taking in some cases nearly half the purse then the coach, I suppose they could build or rent a few places for them. But when I see bitching about pay then get rid of that manager who does what you coukd do yourself but many are paying for hangers on, the ufc employ a lot if people to build shows all over the us and the world, the fighters can now get sponsership and outside deals so what exactly are these managers doing for their money, ufc hv to make a profit or what's the point in spending all thus money, maybe some compromise is to be had but despite what jake Paul shouts most boxers are paid worse too but you don't hear that unless your the top top boxers your money is also rubbish.
They do cover their expenses. The PI. If fighters choose not to use it that’s on them.
Patrick is so smart & wise. He realised that Ngannou isn't happy with his pay then decided to bring thr Mc Gregor whiskey business in the conversation by mentioning the partnership with UFC. Then asked if he can hires Ngannou for a commercial and finally showing a way to Ngannou on how he can make his side hustle by having the right manager. Patrick... you're the 🐐
Actually he sounded like a professional slaver or sharecropper. "Protesting would be bad", never taking into consideration that these men actually participate in real combat in order to survive. Kinda like Roman gladiators (slaves), or the Mandingo that was made to fight (slaves). You can't justify the pay these fighters don't recieve by telling them to simply "step up" their side hustle. Really
You are talking nonsense. The fact remains that UFC underpays their fighters and like most people in this comment section as well as in the UFC, people like Francis who are uneducated and cant speak good English are being undermined, overlooked and used in this sport. Your admiration is misplaced my friend, just like Patrick's admiration for Dana being a good promoter of which he is but you cant deny the fact that he is screwing UFC fighters. THESE ARE FACTS.
Its pretty obv that Ngannou isnt happy with his pay since he left the UFC cuz of the pay..
@@ThuIaniNgobeni these fighters better start understanding they are in the ENTERTAINMENT business if they want that pay increase. McGregor understood this.
Wow! the wisdom. An athlete selling a product alongside fighting, jeez! why did I never think of that?! 🤔
PBD giving Francis free business consulting that’s worth millions
@@kabbalah11 so true. I love PBD but Adam doesn’t know anything😂 dude couldn’t define EBITDA. They couldn’t even explain to Francis what they meant, obviously he doesn’t understand them cause they don’t even know what they are saying.
So you would give someone a million dollars for saying that there is no way to get the money your asking for? He said nothing meaningful to Francis😂
@@kabbalah11 Especially when Patrick mentioned the Proper 12 whisky. Overpriced blended muck🤢
@@feelme5297 what’s worth millions is using the UFC to leverage his brand/product. Listen again.
@@feelme5297 I know! You'd think all these wannabe entrepreneurs would have a brain cell between them. I've never seen so many wide-eyed buffoons than I do in the comments section of this podcast.
They live in cuckoo land.
Wow Patrick mapped out a whole game plan for Francis right there. He threw him a bone by letting all major brands that Francis is willing to work with them. While also not throwing the UFC and Dana under the bus. Patrick just trying to get everyone what they want and if Francis follows that plan everyone will. So damn smart 👏🏼
The point is that the base salary for fighter should be higher, now do you really think Dana will allow every fighter to push their own personal brands onto the ufc. He stopped letting them have their own sponsor on their clothes a while ago
Connor has a fan base that Francis doesn't have. And Connor is an entertainer on and off the ring. Even if Conor is not winning or fighting, he can still be making money. If someone beat Francis, his brand is over. Most fighters just don't have the privilege Conor has.That argument is stupid.
@@gradinzuzi2536 Does any other sports league in the US let athletes wear their own sponsors while playing?
If the NFL you get fined for wearing Dre Beats headphones to your press conference cause the league is sponsored by Bose
Its very ignorant that fans think Dana and the UFC invented having league/company sponsors. Every other league does that too
Yes you can be signed by Nike or Adidas but guess what so can UFC Fighters if they want. They just cant waer their sponsors WHILE fighting. Just like Lebron cant just slap a huge NIKE logo on his lakers jersey just like Tom Brady cant put Under Armour on his Bucs jersey. Literally every league has the same rule. Sponsor your shit on your own time.THats all Ufc rule is
@@Rowsy91 EVERY major sports league lets the athletes receive sponsorships. The UFC doesn't
Hes not throwing them under the bus though he’s not the only champion they’ve lost due to money, the ufc should pay it’s fighters
“They let you pretend to be negotiating” that was funny.
Francis was confusing revenue share with EBITDA. UFCs revenue share is 80-85%, I think Francis got confused as EBITDA is a complex term - Francis only learned English a couple of years ago so I’ll give him a pass.
As a 3rd language
I’ve spoken English all my life, but what is EBITDA? I didn’t even know what to Google before seeing your comment (EBD? EBDA? Having never heard the term before, I couldn’t catch what PBD was saying). I was hoping they would explain that for the audience before continuing to use the term.
@@mutomboinprogress it’s an accounting term which means earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation.
It’s basically a fancy way of saying your profits before tax and large costs (debt payments, costs for large machinery etc).
Really!!!! U know how many native english speakers dont even know what a balance sheet is let EBITDA. Come on dude.
It’s not even an English thing.. its a corporation thing.. one majority will not be clued up on. Good to see Ngannou has basic understanding of numbers the company are doing and understand his worth
It’s a useless argument because a fight with Tyson Fury is worth about $25-30 million and his UFC contract is worth $7-15 million do the math. 1 fight $25million versus signing for 4 years to get $ 15 million.
with the UFC holding the option to cut you if you lose a fight or refuse 3 fights they offer you.
@wade wilson listen son please use the common sense God gave the every day dog. No fighter wants to get his head banged in and CTE fighting 12 fights over four years when you can make more money with 1- fight. If your going to risk your life for money the one big fight is worth more than the twelve small fights. Besides as a free agent he can sell his product to any organization for money.
@@art_of_comedy3241 Fury will carry the fight. It’s a hundred million dollar fight and Francis is the B side he’ll make in the twenty million range. Remember Wilder wasn’t very well known publicly either.
@@art_of_comedy3241 He would make a lot of money if he ever fought Fury, the UFC heavyweight champ with huge power against Fury would sell huge, I would certainly guess over 2 million ppvs, probably more
low ranking boxers aren’t making sh..t! in ufc they do make some sh..t
It's something to see such a mild-mannered and soft-spoken guy be such a ferocious fighter.
Patrick’s business mind and problem solving skills is legit. This is what an executive level negotiator looks like. He can easily run through the numbers in his head, break down a company then strategize a legitimate plan in 10 minutes.
Actually his “solution “ is very basic and it doesn’t address the issue - the examples he gave needs more context - and with it you’ll understand why what he said wouldn’t work for 90% of the fighters
@@TheAnamnesisable having good management is important man
I'm absolutely certain he didn't prepare for those interview at all, whatsoever.. nope, came in blind....
I disagree. He is giving advice to the top 5 percent of fighters that have the publicity to implement his strategy. The main issue (as I see it) is the 95% of fighters who are hanging on a thread that is held on the other end by Dana.
And also for this 5% - do we want as fans that the fighters would be focused on building businesses or on training and fighting? They should just get payed the proper amount for the risk and entertainment they bring. They should be employed by the UFC and no be independent contractors.
P.S.
I hate the spot that I am in as a fan where I need to choose between enjoying the sport I love and supporting the corrupt greedy UFC
@@baraktalmor8828 Bro Patrick made millions what have you done i think he knows more than you.
I get the business side of it, but it's really gross how the salaries have barely improved.
Hell even the new Venum fight kit deal pays the fighters less if you factor in inflation.
The minimum payment in UFC was 12/12 ten years ago. Because of inflation that is 15/15 today. So ten years ago your payment went further.
@@e13kid paddy got paid 12 to show and 12 to win lol. Dude had nearly a million followers on instagram before it getting taken down and he's getting paid 12k to co headline. UFC salaries are just sad. I understand he was on his new rookie salary still. But that should be getting renogiated real soon.
@@e13kid nate use get paid 10k at 2014 nate was very popular at that time the pay is shit
@@nathandiaz7254 Nick would also tell him to not be stupid and to stop fighting for 10k.
It sucks that the fighters use to make more money from the advertising on their shorts then from the fight. Dana saw that and took that money too with the Reebok deal.
Francis is a fighter, not a fiancial advisor. He made that obvious. But he is correct, UFC does need to increase pay. They should even offer a 3 year departure salary of $35k in a severence package to fighters after they leave the UFC.
💚
Why should they?
@@bigimportantman1544 they won't give you a logical answer
@@bigimportantman1544 why not ? The fighters are the ones who are basically the show. They bust their ass and take way less percentage of earnings that other major league sports. I’m a capitalist too but fuck how greedy do u gotta be ?
@@mateopotato679 A team makes organization money they have a large following. How much money does the Korean zombie bring the UFC per year? not much, how about Mcgregor "Conor McGregor Still Helped the UFC and Endeavor Earn $1.1 Billion in Revenue" this is a business son.
Love these episodes, your podcast has really hit it's stride pat
Cool to see you here. I know you're a fan of UFC
@@B-RaDD Dr beau is everywhere prowrestling, mma, fitness and high value male content
Hey doc could the low payouts be because of the high medical expenses that UFC has to encour due to the nature of the fights... Ufc fighters have more danger than a boxer
I started my mind alteration around the same time I wanted to fight for a living and when I was watching this channel like an addict trying to know as much as I can without having to go to school. Much more educated now and have found value in many different avenues.
Please keep interviewing fighters! And force them to give a good interview! In a nice way! Fighters dont get the spotlight enough for what they do
Wow this is a combination I never thought I'd see together, great interview Patrick thank you as always for bringing us so much great content.
💖
Great stuff
Wow wow wow
I am camerounian and I watch this channel since 5 years everyday.
I am so proud to see Patrick interviewing my brother Ngannou . It is a blessing for him to have these advice. I feel so happy for both of you.
This is why unions and collective bargaining exist. The fighters need to get together to form a union. Alternatively, they could get together to create a rival to the UFC, in which the fighters have an equity stake in the organization, as well as a say in how it is run.
Patrick always great wisdom. Francis seems like a lovely guy for the badass that he is.
About time you brought this man on the show, Pat! Thank you 😊
Patrick defending a greedy businessman rather than defend decency? who'd have thought, eh?
Go check out Eddie Hearn, Patrick. He knows how to treat his fighters well whilst still make a decent profit.
Dana as a dictator is impressive especially to another dictator. But it's horrible for the dictator's subjects.
@@cobracommander9138 🎯 Patrick got some cuck in him
There are a couple of facets to this, so let's dive in!
Boxing has been well established for over a century. The licensing statewide and internationally has precedent. Mixed martial arts is still building infrastructure and working to get licensing to legally host fights in all of the states.
Because of the time and licenses that boxing holds, you have several governing bodies in boxing. The boxer is an independent contractor, with the ability to fight in different federations, IBF, WBA,WBO, so on and so forth. The fighter's only under contract to their manager, who is allowed to negotiate a fight purse for each fight and open the markey to bidders willing to pay to sponsor the event. The UFC is its own machine. They put fighters under contract and they have hard ceilings as far as what they are willing to offer these fighters. McGregor is the unicorn of the situation. A ufc fighter's can't fight for the PFL or ONE belt in cross promotion championships the way a boxer can.
Because the UFC is their own machine, they've shouldered production costs that otherwise would have been picked up by Showtime or HBO. They pay for traveling medical staff for behind the scenes where boxers bring their own doctor, they paid for Yaz Island to host fights in Abu Dhabi to keep the sport going and avoid icing fighters out of their prime during the pandemic, he's set up UFC performance institutes on other continents and in the US, where fighters are given every resource to train and receive proper nutrition, meal preps and physical recovery, what boxing organizations are doing these things? The boxers are paying these things out of pocket. Where I disagree with Dana White is the sponsorships. Dana wanted to get out of the WWE Attitude Era where everyone wore Affliction shirts and clean the image up, but at the expense of the fighter's advertising dollars. I think there should be an approved list of sponsors that aren't in direct competition with Disney/ESPN/ABC and that meet their ethics criteria at least for non-ppv fights, considering NASCAR has been doing it ever since....this would eliminate the complaints abouy fighters pay and it could all be printed on the Venue gear they have contract with 🤷♂️
its called a business not charity.
@@eleganz exactly
i agree, there is no reason someone with the platform Ngannou has can’t get into great marketing opportunities. Fighters and their managers need to reimagine what a UFC athlete is, especially champions. Connors situation was an outlier yes, but there’s more than just alcohol money out there
Totally agree with Pat. The UFC is a -platform you can use as a fighter. You negotiate the price but it will be lower then your worth. But the UFC is a marketing machine of which you can benifit. You need to brand yourself and USE - for free - the UFC platform to promote your brand. If you are just a fighter you won’t make it. You need to be a fighter/businessman-women. If you are able to do that you can make a lot of money. The UFC pays less, but can keep on growing. And you benefit of this growth because you have an even bigger platform to promote your product/service. That’s how they see it. And I totally get it.
True , you are always going to be paid less than what you produce in every business sector
Even Pat is paid less than the wealth he produces
it's interesting how any sport can become a business.
Those who are forward thinking would try to line up as patrick described ways to leverage what you're doing/your popularity to other things that can reduce your dependence on the sport as your primary income as a fail safe in case you get hurt while being in the sport.
Good interview I've watched the extended version. The only qualm I have is Patrick undermining the fact that the UFC's salary to fighters is not good. Yes, they all know about leveraging their brand to get sponsorship and other opportunities. That's obvious and wasn't a good point. The issue that the fighters have is that the UFC is not paying them adequately enough, so they struggle to pay their bills. Francis said his last fight against Ciryl he had to take out a loan to cover the cost of paying his bills and trainers. The UFC needs to fix the pay.
Francis is a wonderful human being.........
I have the utmost respect for what this man has achieved and more importantly how he overcame adversity few see in 10 lifetimes.......
Dana White is an excellent promoter...
The one variable that Dana needs to truly needs to address yesterday is the lifelong sustainable safety of the athletes who give every drop for his promotion.
I understand the UFC has a business plan.
They are growing exponentially..
UFC is still a young sport compared to NBA, NFL, MLB etc.....
WME, Disney.....they want to grow and grow and grow....
I get it......
Opening PIs across the globe recruiting the best talent......
When you speak about profit margins being so extreme...
The UFC brand has nothing to lose by increasing fighter pay substantially, and paying for insurance policies for the lifetimes of these athletes....
The imbalance harmS the brand and us fans want the athletes to be well taken care of as a whole.....
If I had to guess I believe the UFC has numbers they quant to hit and will eventually pay more and the playoffs will have a union..
It’s likely inevitable.....
However all of the people fighting currently are not going to benefit and see this during their careers....
Greed is never good....
The best route for the athletes to take to have immediate impact would require every athlete in the top 10 in w every weight class/division to unionize and draw up fair sustainable demand..
The UFC would then have to truly come to the table...to collectively bargain...
I have been a fan since day 1 UFC 1......
There is room to have a win win and grow the brand much more and much more rapidly.....
I would hope Dana knows and it does not sit well with him that his athletes in the company he built are mostly struggling honestly....
Connor is a fluke...
He got lucky...
He’s no genius....
Shame that you see fighters pretending to be something they are not just trying badly to copy that shallow model.....
Sending good vibes and hope to all of the fighters...
Take some action guys and gals....
Francis did not understand that whole 48% statement
Francis knows the margin is more like 60-80% the UFC is public so these are numbers published. It’s likely dog poop.
@@MikeJones-mk1vm Francis was confusing revenue share and EBITDA. Give him a break, he learned English a couple of years ago and EBITDA is a complex term.
I bet you. Many graduates from English countries do not understand what EBITA is. It's not fair to throw out terms like that. Understand your audience. Normally, terms should always be explained as simple as possible when you must use it in a setting that is probable it will be a new term.
@@samchs222 yeah, and probably the managers tend to fill the fighters ears with the gross revenue per year number.48% is really good for a large corporation, but Dana puts on about 50 fight cards every year and the Ultimate Fighter and does his looking for a fight/contender series shows.
And Diaz, Conor and Masvidal account for a lion's share of those profits, the rest is Dana getting his guys to execute cards efficiently on 5 different continents through out the year.
I'm pretty sure Dana would have pitched the ultimate fighter to Francis' manager, if not they should have asked for it, TV time is a precious commodity. Nick fought tooth and nail to get Nate in the ultimate fighter so that he could become a household name.
@@shadow_realm47 one way to think of the fighters is that they are part of the "real estate" of the company. Regardless of the money they each bring in, they should be entitled to a decent share of the overall revenue. Each fighter taken into the UFC is a gamble of who could bring in more revenue. Therefore, everyone should benefit in ways such as minimum annual salary and pecks like insurance.
They need a fighter union
love the purple lighting. Makes the guest look more special, which is key in podcasting!
I think Patrick is talking about elite fighters, but Francis is talking about the majority of fighters, the journeyman, the guy that loses one fight all the way to the top, and everybody forgets about him
One of my favorite people in the world and I’ve never met Patrick. Gives me insperation daily!
The first 3.5 minutes of the discussion would let you know why many athletes go BK after having the cash flow they had when they were competing.
“Wars are won by people are willing to sacrifice everything!”
Fabricio Werdum had arguments about money with the UFC and they stopped cooperating. Werdum was a top caliber fighter, one of my favorites, with a long career and he has been in fighting circles since day 1 of MMA. So it is not easy if they are willing to break relationship with a guy like Werdum.
UFC pays the lowest percentage of earnings to their athletes of all North American professional sports. And it's not close
of all the world you mean
They don't owe athletes a percentage. When tf has any sport been OBLIGATED to pay athletes a percentage of earnings???? Thats not how this shit works. You're the same kind of freeloader that thinks a janitor at Amazon should make a percentage of Bezos salary because Bezos is a multi billionaire. Doesnt fucking work like that. You get paid what you agree on based upon what you bring to the company. Francis isn't any where near the biggest draw in the UFC. Doesnt matter if Izzy or Usman makes a milli a fight, Francis doesnt have the following nor level of visibility that those guys have. This isn't affirmative action. Its business. You get a piece of what you bring in... simple.
@@tiffanysmith1465 they’re not obligated but it’s a very risky strategy. No one has ever paid to see an owner or promoter. If the UFC isn’t putting the best of the best in the cage fans won’t stick around
@@tiffanysmith1465 ufc makes $ directly from fighters, Amazon isn't making $ because of a janitor... nice try tho.
Dane White treats his fighters like cattle.
Francis should 100% launch his own brand.
Patrick youre good moderator. Like the way you explain things to Ngannou and Ngannou is really improving and growing.
Glad to see Francis here. Much respect from Cameroon.
Plus let’s not forget Patrick is a non union supporter because he believes that it’s the owner that makes the company and not the worker or in this case the fighter.. I feel the fighters need more of a voice
Of course Patrick is against protesting and organizing, he's the company owner. Turns out to be a great strategy, just ask those Amazon workers in Staten Island how that's working out for them
Yes, but not a good strategy if you’re a unknown UFC fighter
@@thenoblemarketer6599 Ngannou is the undisputed champion heavy weight champion
Patrick, this was a smart way to show him opportunity‘s ! I hope he gets what he deserves. He seem to be a good person.
Bro! This is a true CEO! The mind to find a way through! Big UP!
I like ngannou but the fact that he doesn't even know what the ufc makes, their margin and stuff just shows that he doesn't understand business. His manager may be the problem, you may not like it but if you don't sell tickets and don't attract fans then you're not getting paid.
He attracts fans
@@Y0sHiikus no he doesn't, you may like him but for most people he's not that big of a draw . I wouldn't buy his pay per view
@@Y0sHiikus He doesn't really all that well though. The predict his last fight with Gane sold 500k. That's not bad but not amazing either.
@@Plague_Doc22 it didn't sell 500k, his estimated pay was 500k
@@Tyranus02 nobody sells like Connor McGregor, win or lose, so by that comparison then yeah... he's not that big a draw
McGregor Cashed in Cause he Branded himself sold his Fights, McGregor brings diff money, Such as R. Rousey, In the fight Game You gotta sell it to the Fans the more you make
Very true. It all comes down to one thing in EVERY business out there: marketing.
Francis is leading by example, hopefully the top fighters follow in his footsteps and the dominoes will fall
It seems as though the ring should be just used as a platform to get exposure.
From there, every performer should strive to make most of their money from sponsorships, brand deals, investing, modeling, ACTING, social media, podcasts, teaching videos, gyms, etc.
I like how he went to the branding side of it. And showed the lack of branding that maybe fighters can tap more into go and get another bag if the fights not going to be the main source of income which is a power play for the fighters to give them some breathing room to actually think about going on strike. Or wait til that contract up to renegotiate your real value without the pressure of needing the money now so you just sign. When you got a bigger bag coming from somewhere else you got options now.
I usually like these guys. But really hated the line "it's public information, it's not hard to find" instead of actually saying , 'oh it's listed here at xx"
Patrick has the best podcast on CZcams right now. Amazing content.
Damn Pat you get everyone on. Big love and respect
Mr Patrick you are inspiration 🙌 you are a true version of a Man's man fight club style 💙 with a sharks 🦈 mentality for business love the idea bouncing for Ufc heavyweight Champ Ngannou 🏆
I like the suggestions Patrick is offering Ngannou, with deals and sponsorships. However, on the long run the UFC is not considering that when the salaries of fighters aren't fully sufficient for them getting distracted by too many sponsorships or side hustles may affect their performance/ability to fight due to conflicting schedules. There's a reason why we keep seeing lots of fighters trying to enter Boxing rather than professional boxers making attempts to enter the cage (besides Claressa Shields). Most of the UFC fighters taking this bold move are doing it due to the insane pay related.
The UFC controls the sponsorship during UFC sanction events. So for that to work UFC has to grant a cut which is why you don't see sponsors on ring attire. Unless they changed that UFC wants total control.
@@MrInternational1980 I was thinking the same thing, I just didn't know how to word it
They gave him the platform and helped him grow! He's been training at their performance institute & making incredible strides. Remember him vs Stipe 1, that's his peak without the UFC
If they don't like the pay they should go ahead and start their own league ,pay each other millions 😊
@@kenneethm1216 EXACTLY.
@Monarchy 1509 yeah
Imagine telling one of ur best employee that the only reason they are making money is cuz of u.
@@BernardBrunu1 employee? Yea
Khabib put it the best way, “ you want to go for legacy, dont leave ufc. If you want money. ok. Do what you want”
These host legit awesome!!!! Very respectable and eloquent
Ngannou wasn't prepared for these types of questions I think 🤔
Nothing but the truth. They should have brought in his manager
Gotta start somewhere.
Is it anyone's fault that ufc fighters can only perform 3 times a year. It's the nature of fighting and necessary recovery time. NBA players play more like 85 times a year, footballers more like 50. Considering how many events elite fighters participate in they are actually some of the best paid athletes on a per event basis.
It’s nobody’s fault. Fact is, Dana is really good to fighters. Better than any promoter in history.
These fighters are dumb. As are the fans. Just look at how confused Francis when EBITA was brought up. The fans complaining had the same looks on their faces.
@@S0RELOSER lol dana exploits fighters
@@S0RELOSERFrancis is so dumb he made more in one night boxing than he did 6 years in the UFC. Tell me more about how great a promoter Dana is. 😂
@@orthodoxboxing9159 apples & oranges.
Francis left a ton of money on the table by not doing his part to leverage his brand while in the UFC.
He will die broke. He’s dumb.
Great interview with a Great guest!!!
Sports athletes have always proved that some people who can get a lot of money and fame don't always know how to multipy it.
Facts dude act like a 9-fivers
So basically the UFC needs a union or the fighters will be exploited. 🤔 who could have guessed a successful company cuts labor costs first?
Francis just found another person to learn from. Awesome
Men uplifting men!
Love it! 💪🏾👊🏾
Bravo for Patrick giving that solid gold advice
Taking away the fighters sponsorships was /is brutal.
Yeah, look at Myles Jury breaking down how much he made vs Diego Sanchez (Myles Jury's youtube channel). This was before the reebok deal when ufc fighter had their own fight kit sponsors. I looked at his sponsorship money and was like 'wow, they make this much but venum would pay only $4000 😢'
Patrick: "EBITA" Ngannou: "what the f is that 😆 🤣"
There will be a competitive rival league to the UFC at some point and that's what will ultimately change their pay structure
Thank you for this beautiful interview. I like the fact that you guys took time to educate these fighters on investment and financial management and how to leverage their brand as individuals using Conor as a case study.
I really hope Francis takes their advice. Instead of beefing with the UFC, he could just leverage that and build a business around his popularity. Damn, I love this show.
Two things can be true at once, but I think Francis's sentiment is absolutely justified. Sure, fighters should definitely be more financially literate and have better advisers around them. But it's also true that they're horribly underpaid across the board, even on the top levels.
Honestly, if there was a serious effort to create a UFC fighter union, it can definitely come to fruition.
How do you determine they are "underpaid"?
The market test for that is fighter would be leaving the UFC in droves to go fight at other organizations....but they're not
@@teamrgvbodybuilding1772 more roster spots and more eyes in the ufc. thats why they draw more fighters. Bellator cant offer the amount of contracts the ufc can.
patrick's idea is that francis should work harder to accrue other resources while still settling for the bullshit pay and conditions at his main job. 😂
“They negotiate the next contract at 20 months on a forty month contract.” Don’t negotiate at 20 months. Wait till 10 months left on a forty month contract that way you’re negotiating when your value is highest, hopefully. (as long as you continue to win and promote yourself to fans).
Patrick is taking it to the next level
UFC fighters need to unionize or they will never get paid fairly. Not every fighter is a Conor McGregor and even he is underpaid if you look at just his fight purses.
What I think about when it comes to this conversation, the UFC has done a really good job investing back into the business. They’ve built the platform. The UFC is bigger than ever and because of that, fighters are making more than they have. The growth and sustainability of the brand allows the fighters to, overtime make more money. If I’m not mistaken, Francis wants his money guaranteed and doesn’t want to wait on the money from the backend ppv points to come in. In that way Francis is like a partner in the promotion and things because the better the ppv does the more he makes. He apparently doesn’t want it to be like that. I read that he made a little over 7 mil from his ppv points.
Link that source please.
That's not true
I only saw how he made500k and that after ppv he got maybe 1-2 mil or so but even then he's still the heavyweight champ and they should be paying him more
This reads like a copy paste written by Dana 😆 🤣 😂. In no way was "Francis like a partner in the UFC", Dana has consistently knee capped Francis for leverage in their negotiations. Getting PPV points is just a normal part of top talent getting value out of the profit that they generate, it's not even remotely analogous to them being a "partner". Ever since Francis and the UFC have been negotiating Francis's next contract (that never happened) Dana has been excoriating Francis in the media every chance he's had to leverage Francis into a horrible contract. Complaining about Ngannou's work ethic, ego, willingness to fight, skill level ("he's not the guy we all thought he was"), and most importantly trying to leverage Francis going into his last contractual fight injured to sign a shitty deal. That's not how you treat a "partner", that's how you treat someone you're trying to exploit for every cent you can wring out of them.
@@88mphDrBrown it’s in the UFC’s interest to sell ppv’s. If the fighters pay is linked to his ppv sales, that makes them partners in selling the event, no? If the fighter pay is guaranteed just for showing up then where is the incentive to sell the fight? There has to be some give and take there.
The UFC has built a marketing machine and do a solid job of advertising and providing media opportunities to hype fights. Some fighters have been able to figure out ways to draw huge ppv interest inside of that machine and outside of it. Thus, they’re able to command more in their negotiations. Without a promoter doing all that work for Francis what the interest be in his fights? He’s certainly no Jake Paul with the promotion and none of his ppv’s are anywhere near the top 10 in sales unless I’m mistaken?
Francis answered some these questions based on already being out of UFC
commercials and sponsorships that aren’t already in bed with the UFC are not an option for active fighters… go against Dana and they just shelf you until your contract expires and your a forgotten commodity
No matter how high you go, stay grounded
I would like to see Francis’s managers do a public interview.
I suspect the guys are incompetent idiots… but Francis wouldn’t know either way.
Just as we the people are looked upon from the elites.
This guy is only thier muscle and financial making machine.....Sadly
Seconded
You bring up a good point. I wonder how much of this issue of fighters not getting paid enough is mismanagement or fighters getting taken advantage of because of their working class upbringing.
They are not.
His agent is actually very smart
@@kwamemofokeng3630 What have they done for Francis that has been smart?
So this is why fighters SHOULD have a Finance manager
I think more importantly they should have an understanding of finance, accounting and marketing. At least they would be able to follow what their managers and business advisors are doing or recommending and not get fleeced.
Very cool Patrick picking some cool guests
Wow! 9 minutes of gold right there. @Valuetainment UFC fighters should pay you a small fee to manage them independently.
Remember, UFC fighters trying to get every cent they can is ok, but Dana doing the same is wrong?!🙄 START YOUR OWN PROMOTION AND SHOW US HOW ITS DONE.
Alright get back to your Amazon warehouse shift buddy
@@levelup2014 I'm off today brother! I appreciate the counter argument though!🤣 Now go sit in the corner.
Chael and Khabib actually started their own too.
Oh, and Chael sold PPVs long before McGregor has.
@@shapshooter7769 Great.
@@levelup2014 🤣🤣🤣🤣
As much as we hate and love Dana, he made UFC what is today, without him this whole shit would've sank years ago
Nobody normal hates Dana
It wouldn't have sank but it wouldn't be half of what it is now he's a Vince McMahon type
Omg the last part when he spoke about the right management of Nganou, he absolutely nailed it, Nganou could me making tons of money if he had the right manager , like a lot. I think Patrick could turn him into a multi millionaire within months.
PBD needs to get into sports negotiations. Insurance is cool but comon bro. We need u in the boxing and MMA world!!!
Are you serious?! I respect Dana but come on their are so many great bosses who take care of their employees and would give fighters a better pay!!! The fighters make the sport and is the reason why we watch not Dana white!!! We watch the fighters not the employer
At the end of the video, sounds like Patrick is offering to manage Francis' promotional ventures lol ... doo it! Lol
I hate when u ask someone where something is(they know exactly where it is) and their response is it’s easy to find and completely disregards the question
There are athletes in every major sport who struggle to make the team. Most of them barely get by and have to find other professions to support their pursuit. You either make it or you don’t, nobody owes you nothing.
Ngannou has a point
The lucky ones become businessmen and fighters
But how many of these fighters have business instinct? A lot of them are even kids who just want to fight. Heck they're all there just to fight and you want them to manage a business?
Shows he thinks fate decides a fighters life but in reality businessmen know that success is hard work and hard work is success.....not luck. It's not Dana whites problem of concern to make sure all these guys manage thier own lives correctly, I'm tired of everything being someone else's problem with whiney fighters Like Ngannou.
Buck up Ngannou, your a heavyweight champ with millions now and you have opportunities to branch out. Stop buying wasteful bullsht like 250k cars and invest that money in a business. I certainly do not care even a little whe your first instincts are vacation, nice cars, Rolex and bug houses you don't need. Grow up
@@scottwall8419 yeah you would rather billionaires just continue to rip off people when the employees are the main attraction. there’s a reason unions exist, the nba/mlb fought hard against owners and are now paid adequately
One thing I’ve come to understand is a lot of these guys are great athletes and without the right advisors by them they are liable to make and waste millions.
I studied accounting and it just blows my mind when I hear people barely understand basic personal taxes.
I think it's pretty easy to say that Patrick came away from this meeting not thinking Francis is a very intelligent person.
EBDIT matters yes, but they have ab army of CPAs so alot of items are deferred or some accounting principle applied that the glossies (financial statements) wont faithfully represent the true financial pic.
This is why you must must must put a percentage of PPV on the contract and not just dry money. Then, the amount of PPV you bring depends on how popular you are.
First time seeing this interview after the new interview with Ariel. Holy shit Francis needs some smart business people around him. He’s got no manager and no one representing his interest right now. If he thinks he can do this all on his own this video is proof that Francis doesn’t understand how business works
He has a manager and he did compare a lot of his interactions and valuation online with how much money the UFC actually paid him.
Lmao. "Strike" struck fear into Patrick as a CEO.
Lmao yes. He almost fainted and eyes said it. CEOS can’t stand when the massses rally and overthrow the perceived power structure that is built just on leverage
Excellent podcast
I'm surprised more fighters don't try to make money from modeling and acting. If regular people can get gigs, I'm sure the fittest people in the world can also. On top of that they already have exposure which agencies worldwide definitely value and will pay.
Those modeling gigs and little movie roles add up!!
Just to be clear, Francis Probably made close 2-5 million for his last fight , half a million is just the disclosed/base amount required to make it public by the Athletic commission. Francis trying to make 5-10 million per fight, which he might be entitled to but when you say numbers like that people will feel less bad, Most of the pay issue is for entry level fighters , the guys who actually only make 30-100k per fight, but rarely people paying to watch those guys fight, UFC does have the best Entry level fighter pay overall compare to other organization and boxing.
I didn't know that they have the best entry level fighter pay overall ,where can I get the information?
Secondly , if any fighter makes 10 million for the UFC why would the UFC pay them 10 million ,it doesn't make any business sense
Yea bro I think he made 2.2 million. I hate that literally most people seem to not know that whatsoever lol
These fighters don't realize that they don't even promote themselves... Like look at Ngannou. How does he promote himself outside of the UFC? You wouldn't hear or know about this guy outside of that. The entire reason they are known is because of the UFC's platform. Dana said a long time ago that the UFC isn't a career... fighters need to use the platform they have, push their brand, and then sell themselves the way Conor and guys like Khabib did. You see all these fighters complaining about their pay. Do the math. They fight maybe 2 times a year, max. That means for 365 days, they only fight TWO days... MMA or professional athletes only spend a few hours per day training and that's usually only during training camps. Most don't train that rigorously. So you're looking at maybe 2-3 hours of training. What else are they doing the rest of their time? They have an entire free schedule but they don't use that to promote themselves... That's the problem.
Umm isn't Dana White's other job title "Promoter"? So why tf ppl keep telling fighters to do that. Their job is to fight. Promoters job is to promote.
@@M3Lucky You didn't understand the argument. Dana promotes the fights, not the fighters. If a fighter want's to be a crowd drawing, money making star, then they have to promote themselves outside the UFC. If you want to make a career out of the UFC by just fighting, then you need to be a contender lol.
@@M3Lucky It's not his job to manage these fighters and what they do OUTSIDE of the UFC. His job is to promote the fight and brand of UFC. These fighters need to promote themselves.
Well Francis have fan on Instagram hes big superstar
What do u think his doing being on all this podcast? U think he came here just to talk? If you watched the podcast he also mentioned he will be speaking at a bitcoin event.
His currently one of the most followed ufc on social media with millions of followers. He stated in the interview that he makes way more money from advertising himself and getting brand deals than from the UFC
Is that Francis Nganu? He is talking about how much the fighters make (20%) of what UFC makes.
The issue for the UFC (as compared to other sports where players make 50%), is that it is a newer sport so they have more expenses in getting licensed in countries etc. I don’t know if the extra costs eat up that additional 30%, but it IS something Dana White discusses.
Africans are very eloquent and sage like when they articulate any idea