‘Is That Cruel & Unusual Punishment?’: ACB & Roberts Press Lawyer About Access To Homeless Shelters
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- During oral arguments in City of Grants Pass v. Johnson on Monday, Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Justice John Roberts questioned Kelsi Corkran, attorney for Gloria Johnson, about the definition of community, access to homeless shelters and public urination & defecation.
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I disagree! If the city or municipality makes a law pertaining to not defecting in public and there are no facilities available then I believe it would be the city or municipalities fiduciary responsibility to provide those facilities not punish people for doing what they don’t have any control over.
Agreed. There has to be a legal place for people to defecate or the city shouldn't be able to ban people from doing it on the street.
I think you are probably right. The perennial problem is that people refuse to pay for these things. We want the government to solve all the problems, but we don't want to foot the bill. Ultimately, municipalities need to build homeless shelters. But then again, what if a large crowd of homeless move to a small town that simply cannot pay for a new shelter? The local government does not have the power to force people to move elsewhere. So we end up in another conundrum.
Exactly and yet they purposely don't because they depend on business to fill that need but again most places only allow customers to use restroom not people broke as shit who have nowhere to shit because of corrupted officials
They have no control because they made choices that led to addiction. Once addicted there is no logic. They will do what ever it takes to get the next high.
Again these are not natives that grew up in the Pacific Northwest and have fallen on hard times. These are people who moved to Oregon because Oregon does not prosecute recreational drug use.
No one is arguing the compassion element. I just want to know what the people of Grants pass are supposed to do in the mean time while everyone else tells them what to do.
@@coolfizzinHow do homeless shelters solve anything? Answer. They f*cking DON’T!!! Hello?!!
They never have! They never will! America… where shit proven not to work gets repeated over and over and over again. This is not rocket science. You solve homelessness by housing people. There’s no shortage of valid evidence that it works every time, every place. But let’s keep f*cking debating🤦🏻♀️
Homeless has no address
Addresses are designated to homes, not people. Citizens are all equal before the law.
Because they refuse to enter shelters where one can be had.
@@thomassenbartBecause in those so called shelters, people get robbed and harassed. And some people actually need mental health institutions, not an unsafe shelter.
@@PeaPod-11.11 I agree
@@thomassenbart People who don't interact with homelessness like yourself often don't realize the legal power that entering a homeless shelter affords over the person entering it. You forfeit income and welfare payments, a homeless shelter has more power over its residents than an actual landlord.
If you're homeless, how can you be a "resident"?
Residency is typically people that are there for a year or so. But how would you prove this for someone with no home or an out of state ID? Cities need to get their act together. Instead of having a rouge cop blow away someone, and get a multi-million dollar lawsuit, they need to reorganize what is important.
People become homeless every day in places they've lived their whole lives. 1 in 4 Americans will be disabled or debilitated in their lifetime before the age of retirement.
You could become homeless overnight. No one is immune from homelessness.
@@girlcheckthat is so true
Rogue* @@putinscat1208
urinate in Commercial establishments? "we have the right to refuse anyone", this attorney has never lived in the Real World.
You have to deny use of the restroom because 2/3 of the “homeless” who utilize them do drugs in the process. They pass out and overdose at historic levels.
Yea, well, the real life consequence of that is when every commercial establishment turns you away, you’re gonna sht on the sidewalk lol
Law firms are commercial establishments. And they have restrooms. But I'm guessing lawyer lady isn't going to inviite the homeless to urinate and defecate in her office. No, send them to the local restaurant or coffee shop so the workers there (who aren't making $500 an hour) have to clean up the mess and deal with the crazy behavior. What a piece of work this woman is.
@@jonbrandon6793 someone has to clean public restrooms too?
My God, what have we become? 'What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason.' When did Americans begin to see empathy as a negative and kindness as obsolete?
When it started being operated with debt instead of cash
Thank the Trump maga So called Christains.
When people decided to take advantage of the empathy so they can live for free with no obligation to do anything productive for themselves or their community. And they will take the goodwill bits they like and ignore the bits they don't like, such as getting your shit together and getting a job.
When we let drug addicts hold small towns hostage. We talk constantly about being humane to these people yet in their current state of addiction they are anything but human. What about the small community over run with these addicts. What is humane about the rights and lifestyle of the people that live there.
@david4096 lol, if you didn't have Trump, your life would be hard, wouldn't it? You might have to actually think about something instead of just slinging blame at someone else. This case has NOTHING to do with Trump, and it comes from a typically liberal area. It is extremely complex, and even from a Christian point of view the answer is not obvious. A local government have the responsibility to care for all of its residents, and it can ban encampments and public urination because these threaten health and safety. However, if there is no other option for the homeless, is this power limited? That is what SCOTUS is trying to decide. There are no evil villains here with long curly mustaches. The government does not hate the homeless. It's just not always clear how to best handle real issues.
Let’s try affordable housing act.
There needs to be affordable housing for everyone.
Everyone!!!! All lives matter. All.
That last statement could have ended your job and make you homeless a couple of years ago.
Housing would be more affordable if the liberals who control the planning and zoning would allow us to develop more land. They have restricted everywhere. Can’t build anywhere yet we continue to complain about affordable housing.
That's not how the economy works
South Africa has just that in their constitution… guaranteed housing for everyone. I’ll let you figure out how well that works.
Tennessee has passed the same homeless laws. Across Tennessee, sleeping outside on public property or designated camp sites is now a felony offense. If caught, it’s a Class E felony with up to a $3,000 fine and six years in the penitentiary. Now look at how many politicians have stock in "for profit prisons" at $200 a day per prisoner. Wealthy stock owners getting rich on the suffering of others and tax payers are paying the bill.
Follow the money. They make a lot more than $200 per day on each prisoner.
Michael Burry (the guy from the Big Short) invested tons of $ in a private prison company last year. This tells you all you need to know.
Homeless shelters don't allow you to smoke or drink or shoot up. That's why many street people choose to sleep on trains or in bus stations or tents.
Or take in food!
@@jodame3925 well yeah, they don’t know if you might be trying to smuggle in drugs or weapons
Exactly!
Most of the homeless population in my small city are addicted and using. The shelters will not accept them. Many have mental health issues. Many of these populations refuse the limited resources that are available. According to our police, the homeless in the encampments cannot be forced to leave unless there is shelter available. There again, the shelters won’t take the addicted users.
they don't allow adult families to stay together if they only have one bed, and everyone else is left on the street'.. mother or son..
If sleeping in public is illegal; Biden would be in jail.😂
Biden and Pelosi should take some of the homeless in.
Drugs are not allowed in shelters. Addicts like to live as close to the drugs as possible. Many tent homeless have family homes they can live in, but their family does not allow drugs in their house. I’ve have an open invitation to several addicts to live on my ranch, but they are not allowed to do drugs. They choose to remain homeless so they can do drugs.
A lot of time it is not a choice to be addicted. It is a disease
There are however many homeless not on drugs and who also work
Yeah that’s cause addiction, genius. It’s not a choice.
Time for mental facilities to be built. Never should have un funded mental services especially the past 30 years as more and more took up drug use. Rehab, mental care or jail. Sick of the lack of safety on the streets due to governmental pampering and failure.
Republicans oppose additional funding for mental health services at every stage of government.
Not all homeless people have mental illness. Many people are one paycheck away from being homeless. I agree that mental illness also needs to be addressed. It seems the prisons are also used as mental health facilities these days. Treating homeless as criminals or mentally ill is wrong. This country needs to take better care of their own instead of sending relief to other countries. These issues are getting bigger and bigger as the middle class shrinks.
Here's a stat I came across a couple of weeks ago.
1955 , 161 million Americans , Today 332 million
1955 , 560 k mental asylum patients , Today 35 k
We agree !
I've seen a man in my neighborhood recently declined into his schizophrenia psychosis over a period of a few weeks. He was someplace else being cared for before that you could tell. His hair was cut and his clothes were clean. I'd even had a conversation with him about the weather while I gave home some change. He had a fresh grocery bag with Frozen foods in it. In a matter of weeks he was a ranting mad man on the corner with no place to go.
Republicans shut down all of those state mental hospitals to fund Reagan era tax cuts.
How can shelters limit availability only to residents when being homeless (or without shelter) is equivalent to having no residence? After all, residency isn’t like nationality, where one’s nationality follows them wherever they live.
Yeah, seems like a bit of an empty and unenforceable rule. I think it is meant to deter people from other areas from overloading the facilities.
Try going to the bathroom in San Francisco
Funny how this case is coming out of Oregon supposedly a liberal state...
There are parts of Oregon that are much more like Idaho than Portland.
Even blue states have red areas and red states have blue areas.
Thank you
This talk, about crossing borders. Well what does it mean without crossing borders. As a in my problem with Irvington New Jersey. A resident for 70 years and not being allowed senior houseing. Forced into the street becoming homeless. Plus I am a home owner. No mortgage as well. My inheritance robbed in the meantime.
Homelessness and stealing food have gone had in hand for at least the last 15,000 years like no brain cells
But if you aren’t homeless you can get arrested for urinating in public. So much for equal justice under the law.
There is no equality when people are homeless, that’s the point. It’s legally indefensible, not illegal or unjust.
@@Rnankn You have the right to equal OPPORTUNITY. You do not have the right to equal OUTCOME.
@@truthsayer9534 Except you don't, there is no equal opportunity. If you're a blind or disabled or mentally handicapped person who can't get a job, or you're an orphan who was never adopted and aged out of the foster system, where is your opportunity? You contrast right to opportunity with right to outcome but you've forgotten that outcome is a result of opportunity, but there are many people who are locked out of opportunities. You can't seriously think a child of a rich person has the same opportunities as the child of a homeless person, it's nonsense.
@@modernwarfare9009 Wrong. Outcome is NOT the result of opportunity and I am living proof. Outcome is the result of EFFORT, HARD WORK and BEHAVIOR. I’ve know lots of people from middle and upper class families that didn’t amount to anything because they were lazy and made bad choices. You see, both of my parents grew up poor. Housing projects poor. Their siblings who played the victim and kept making excuses stayed poor while my parents made it to middle class. They instilled the same work ethic in me and my siblings and we all had a net worth over a million before age 50. Tell me that someone who skipped school, partied and had five kids by age 21 deserves the same outcome as someone who stayed in school, payed attention, worked hard, paid their dues and made good decisions. Why should they have something given to them that they didn’t EARN? Just save it. You will NEVER convince me that someone who didn’t earn it should be given the equal outcome as someone who did. That’s called Marxism and tens of millions died in that failed experiment that should never be tried again.
@@modernwarfare9009 As for the disabled, they make up a very small corner case that you cherry picked, but I’ll play your game. There are MANY examples of blind and disabled people who became VERY successful as businessmen, musicians, etc. The difference between the successful ones and the unsuccessful ones is the successful ones had people around them who refused to let them wallow in self-pity and believe they would never amount to anything. I’ve worked with some VERY successful disabled people in the business world. Far more successful than I am and I’m doing very well.
This is horrifying.
Where the heck has common sense gone!!!
Out the Window.
There’s never been a such thing. It’s either not common or it’s not sensible.
This is disgusting.
Absolutely 💯
What's disgusting?
@@alexthompson9516get some empathy and you will know.
@@jdubb6960 again what is disgusting, that is a valid question.
Good argument
During the Great Depression people. mostly men cued up in souplines, and slept in flop houses, and seriously looked for jobs. They recovered and so did the economy, over time. But, this thing about the homeless is totally weird. Government is funding it, and men are becoming totally dependent on a system that allows them to survive year after year as a "member" of Homeless Culture. A whole way of life is being , I guess, permanently funded?
This case would be equal to making flophouses illegal. What do you mean “permanently funded”??
Since the war on poverty started with the Johnson Admin. Poverty has continued a steady rise. If we allow the federal government to address homelessness we will see the same steady growth of homeless people.
00:49 what defines a residence? Is it based on previous resident address? Is there a timeframe.
Maybe we can just house the homeless?
So in other words when I go camping outside for 2 weeks out of the damn year I'm considered a homeless person oh and on top of that I do pee and crap out in the woods when I am camping I do not look for a campground that has a porta potty
ARE you shitting on public sidewalks?
@@taylorshelp5046 do you break into my barn and steal all my tools to pay for your camping trip.
Look at Finland. They have solved homelessness based on an American model. They also have humane elder care. Do research and work on the problems together -- apolitically. Do not cut funds for humanitarian issues.
The issue at hand is lower courts have said that sleeping in public spaces is an absolute Right, which has created all sorts of economic, health and safety issues.
I hope that SCOTUS will allow cities to handle this issue like a conditional privilege.
This would grant cities some control over the situation. They could then make a policy distinction between the truly temporarily homeless that are trying to get back on their feet and the permanent vagrants who only want a free place to sleep between their begging and drug use.
What such economic, health, and safety issues does sleeping in public cause? And that’s most definitely criminalizing status.
Meanwhile, most of the cries for help get censored or suppressed. Is that cruel?
Barrett impresses.
Who knows what municipality the homeless are indigenous to that area???
Exactly, how are they even a resident if they have no residence…
Homeless people are often employed in and have lived their entire lives within or near the municipality
@@BlackElf94 not in this case. Liberal Oregon government in Salem and Portland passed legislation where Oregon does not prosecute recreational drug use. Grants pass woke up the next day with 900 homeless people looking to party. They are not Oregonians who because of a timber depressed economy have become homeless. They are refugees from CA and WA who came there to party.
It’s a real problem.
Vagrancy laws should be reinstated. But for them to be reasonably applied by localities there should be incentives for complying with them. One of these would be escalating the punishment for repeated violations. Another would be a reward for getting addiction or psychiatric help. Note that vagrancy is homelessness without any means of income or support. And in addition one could add other things such as camping out on a sidewalk or violating sanitation laws. To define a crime as the unwillingness to support oneself or be supported by family or friends is reasonable. Like anything else the logical limit of mass vagrancy is the end of civilization.
That’s antithetical to freedom.
Install outdoor toilet at this point. No hand outs.
Then if city does not provide toilet: they should pay a fine to the homeless to cover his penalty!
These professionals haven’t walked around DC after hrs. I had to pee behind bushes around the monuments , no public bathrooms were accessible. Plus in WA. Many Bussiness have signs, stating bathroom out of order, they would let me use be they knew me. Reason for sign, homeless and 3 rd world people are flat unclean, leave bathroom in need of continued cleaning, like after each use. I hate rule makers who don’t even live in our world.
1. Make basic shelter available, with rules. It's much cheaper than jail and mental wards.
2. If people refuse to use shelters, criminalize it.
Many small communities cannot afford small shelters. Beyond the building costs, there is the ongoing running, maintaining, insuring, and policing costs.
And what neighborhood is going to want a shelter that houses many addicts and mentally unstable people to be built in/near them?
Seems against their constitutional rights. Will you outlaw camping next? Slippery sloap
@@millenialfalcon8243did you skip over the part where he said "rules". Not everyone in homeless shelters are "addicts". Most homeless shelters won't let addicts IN
@Hostessmoses That is the problem. The lower courts have ruled that a jurisdiction can not penalize homelessness if there is no low-barrier shelter available to send them to. Grants Pass has a very nice shelter that has helped 1000's get out of homelessness. But the courts said that shelter does not count because they have too many expectations/requirements.
Grants Pass' issue is not the temporarily homeless who are trying to get back on their feet. A lot of help is offered and given to these people.
The problem is the forever vagrants who are not interested in getting clean or becoming self-reliant. They defecate everywhere, leave needles in the parks, zombie walk down busy streets, violently attack (and have killed) random people. They only want hand outs to sustain their drug filled lives. They don't want a hand up.
The lower courts solution seems to be that Grants Pass has to tolerate this. And if the city doesn't want to, the citizens must spend $10m's to provide a shelter (that tolerates addicts), including ongoing maintenance, insurance, and policing costs.
@@millenialfalcon8243 Sounds like Grants Pass needs to police all the criminal behavior. Falling asleep minding your own business with a blanket shouldn't be illegal for a homeless person if a person with a home is allowed to do the same thing without penalty. SCOTUS seems fine with allowing all of the other illegal conduct to be penalized.
Again, if they're on public domain, there's nothing you can do to the homeless, without doing to home owners, as they done in Florida and being unable to camp, besides disrupting any current, or future, federal investigation, and that's without me getting into the 4th, 5th, or 14th Amendment and the right to life, property and liberty, and being homeless and such legislation is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, not to mention issues with their 2nd and 15th Amendment. There's 39,079 people live in Grants Pass Oregon, if everyone of them individually put 1$ into a pool, for a month, Grant Pass would raise 1,172,370$ that can be split amongst the current homeless population that covers financial issues for the individual, if they were to get 500$-1,000$, as the rest covers housing, transportation, medical issues, and gives them a chance to get their lives back on track. You can't get government assistance, or a job without an address, and some homeless people have a drug addiction which they will not be able to beat if they live in a halfway house, surrounded by what may, or may not have lead them to homelessness to begin with.
Case closed, no if, an, or but, quit asking what your country can do for you, and start asking what can you do for your country
Absolutely
How does 39,079 people giving $1 equal $1,172,370? You mean they have to pay $30 per month. Some of these people are children.
@@les0101s , I tried to look up the demographic of that number that account for children, an adjust the numbers accordingly, but it's not accurate and the search algorithm for me was flooded with irrelevant information, an I didn't want to speculate a percentage, to account for it.
@@MatthewNGolding Well, I like your idea and it could help a lot of people. I saw something in the news about a group of volunteers in Grants Pass that are trying to help homeless as much as they can, so there are nice people there.
@@les0101s , not saying there isn't, and not to drop a cliche line, but if you want something done, you have to do it yourself, as we all can see all the misappropriated funds that was supposed to be used to fix the homelessness problem throughout the United States of America
It’s clear that conservative justices have the decency of letting the lawyers actually speak without talking over them
Yeah... The inverse of that where the neoliberals don't let you talk is basically their fundamental tactic .. absolutely ridiculous
Decency in embracing injustices ?
@@Alice-Not-In-Chains what?
@@Alice-Not-In-Chains so will you allow homeless people to sleep in your front yard … or will you embrace injustices by having them removed by calling the cops ?
A lawyer they agree with. Listen to Gorsuch and Alito when the lawyer representing the opposite view comes up.
That lady doesn't understand the difference a homeless person doesn't have a toilet in the tent.
They could, unlikely, but it’s possible
Give them a government job; they could handle that.😂
State
County
City
Subdivision
Clubs
People who have lived in these shelters complain that they get robbed and harassed there. Maybe if safe livable shelters are provided, people won’t have to live on streets. It is really cruel to criminalize homelessness but do nothing to create safe shelters.
Not to mention problems with lice and bed bugs shelters have.
Kind of like it was cruel to prosecute the use of recreational drugs so they stopped and the homeless problem blew up.
Might need a cruel solution.
@@douglastovey2685That’s not how cause and effect works. There’s been a war on drugs for how long? How’s that going, genius?🙄
@@rlud304 if it keeps 900 homeless addicts of the streets of grants pass I’d say it was working better than what we face now.
@@douglastovey2685 How’s that “war on drugs” working?
We need to build housing quad housing for homeless- but then they need help no drugs no drinking provided with necessities & helped to find employment! They way they r treated n todays times is outrageous- back n 50’s that’s what their was for low income! The homeless problem is horrible -america takes better care of other countries than our homeless is treated! It’s UNACCEPTABLE!
Signs of a truly decadent society.
Our family was homeless. Our landlord raised the rent by $600.00 per month. We appealed the eviction because we actually paid our full rent on time and we won. The second appeal was when my poor husband was on a ventilator and I missed the court date- which was an automatic forfeiture. Its disgusting what landlords got away with during the pandemic. My soulmate of 35years passed away and we had zero income. Ppl on this thread assume that all homeless ppl are drug addicts, mentally unstable and hold signs on the street corner. That is no longer the case. There are a lot of seniors living in their cars, folks. Their rent was raised, too.
Fyi: Our landlord owned multiple properties, didnt keep up with maintenance and illegally evicted us. The judge was shocked that we had valid receipts because she lied on the summons. Yall are siding with the landlord wrongfully assuming she was a Saint-- she wasnt.
Just about everything has increased, including the landlord's insurance and possibly the taxes on their property. Unfortunately, this will cause an increase in the rent. Property tax without a cap is insane. This type of tax should never be associated with a person keeping a property, nor the land they've paid for in full, due to non payment.
@@HollieHolliewoodExactly!
Exactly 💯
@@HollieHolliewoodwhat about massive entities like Blackrock that are buying up tens of thousands of houses and apartments? Their only goal is profit and are cranking rents like crazy as long as there are potential tenants that can pay more. What you are saying is part of the story but not the whole story.
well said
Yes, restraunt don't let people use restroom, that dont oay its wring at same time put porta ptty out
I was wondering that as well even gas stations don't allow unless you're paying, but yet they don't have public bathrooms
they think homelessness is individualistic, but these are families or husband and wife,,, couples... or families..
I've seen parents standing out stemming in street corners with their kids. Most of the time, they are using kids as props for sympathy. That is child abuse. CPS should be involved them to get the children safe from the abusers.
Lots of scammers out there.
@@fishgutz4272and take them where? To foster care where they will more than likely not get adopted and end up right back on the streets when they turn 18. It's not that simple man
In the grants pass instance this is not the case. Oregon doesn’t prosecute recreational drug use. These “homeless” came to GP from CA and WA to party without the threat of law enforcement arresting them.
The Oregon legislature passed those law and GP woke up with nearly a thousand homeless living in their parks, forest service roads, etc. ,
It is a real problem.
Is putting a person in a "homeless shelter" against their will like prison with day passes?
Homeless shelters in and of themselves are a flawed system. They're not designed to get people off the streets and they're often far from conducive to any sort of constructive progress. Furthermore that's besides the most common of expressed points that their space and time limits are often extremely limited.
The reasons for why people who are trying to maintain their sanity and safety by not staying at designated homeless shelters are many and it's not a simple explanation to someone who has never been immersed in the experience of homelessness.
It’s always about money...capitalism is pure hell on the unfortunate. Always.
Online sleep therapy.
The difference between public defection and sleeping is that sleeping isn’t an inherent threat to others’ health and doesn’t leave a mess for someone else to clean up. Like eating in a public park shouldn’t be banned, either, as long as there’s nothing left behind.
Sleeping just as dangerous
The human body is dirty
If you don't shower you can attract all sorts of pests and bacteria
Infections.
Tents should be removed for the sake of their well-being.
If they're homeless they really can't claim a district as home..if there is an option in a district close they have have as much right to claim that district for help as any.
Is it cruel it unusual punishment to follow people around to various locations doing what my name says? While telling them if they seek help and report it they're going to suffer. Isn't that a double bind? Which is thought to be the leading cause of schizophrenia according to psychology today and other theroies.
What are you talking about?
@@Spractral In the mid-20th century, Gregory Bateson and his colleagues (Bateson, G., Jackson, D. D., Haley, J., & Weakland, J., 1956) introduced a revolutionary concept that reshaped our understanding of communication's role in psychological disorders. The double bind theory, as it came to be known, suggests a complex interplay between familial communication patterns and the onset of schizophrenia and other emotional disturbances. This theory posits that when an individual is caught in a web of contradictory messages with no clear escape, the psychological toll can be profound (Watzlawick, P., Beavin, J.H., and Jackson, D.D., 1967).
@@Spractral I have dealt with a cyber stalking issue for years where they utilize hacking to terrorize. They call what they are doing a Psychological Operation. They have used media like my name says for psychological effect. Police claimed jurisdictional issues when it was reported to them.
@@Spractral I can't find the exact article right this moment but I will post a quote when I can
@@Spractral I had my other comment go live with the ghosts. Censorship is tyranny.
So basically, we need a new definition for what violates the eighth amendment and that second part about them getting prison time and a record yeah that violates a lot of things
Hmmm does a bear shit in the woods ?
😂😂😂😂 how is that relevant to this, bears are wild animals
How do you have a residence when you’re homeless you’re not bound to any county or at least you shouldn’t be if there’s a homeless shelter a mile over in the next county and you’re telling me I can’t go to that homeless shelter because I used to live in a different county
They are homeless. They don’t have a residence.
Punishment does not have to involve a crime necessarily. I’m not going to talk in circles here. This shows a deep misunderstanding of the complicated issue of what it is to be homeless in the USA in the Supreme Court no less.
How can someone who is homeless be a resident of a jurisdiction because by definition being homeless has no residence?
I believe legally "resident" means "residing within the boundaries", not "having a residence."
Okay, thanks but how do you reside without having a residence?@@coolfizzin
Big pharma should be paying for the homeless shelters.
Is it a lack of money?
@@Rnanknno it's not a lack of money. The more money they throw at it the cozier it gets for the addicts/homeless people.
That is a stupid comment
@@thomassenbartproduce something intellectual
@@AntzOutside I'm not sure what you might consider intellectual to entail but demanding Big Pharma to foot the bill for individual choices is not a good idea and unless one could prove these corporations conspired, knowingly to addict people to their products, it would be unjust as well.
Most homeless folk are addicted to alcohol; do you advocate for slapping fines/payments on distilleries and beer producers and vineyards?
Illegal drugs are also a prime issue and stolen legal drugs as well.
The issue is not Big Pharma but people who make horrible life decisions, again and again and then end up on the streets and continue to do so.
Now you 'AntzOutside'.
The situation calls for a slippy slide LFL Flag Football Field as soon as the Snuggie Blanket portable Zorb ball court of law raises the BAR to a Strong Arm Tech OSHA standard safety Harness and vest incorporated Pelvic Chasis with compartmentalized Colostomy Emissions Customs Doc in the Box log and EKG SAG GAS registered Titles and Licensed DMV AA sponsoring,,geeze
Over 300 million people in America. Less than a million homeless? Is this a National problem, or a specific problem amplified by bad decisions, addiction, mental health issues...? There was much more homelessness per capita during the Great Depression, obviously, but that was prompted by a lack of jobs more than choices. There are jobs, people may not like them, or want them, but there is work.
Honestly there's no way to get by in most places on anything close to minimum wage. I'm speaking as someone who's been in this position (and the only reason I have a place to live at the moment is due to my father having money) but this should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it briefly.
Have you ever seen someone trying to make ends meet without any major support from outside sources or training/ability to get wages that are reasonable? People like this will work 2, even 3 jobs, 60, 70, 80+ hours a week, making 12-17$/hour and living in absolute poverty. I would much sooner be homeless than exploit myself like that.
it's national it is all over, sad
@@Spractral you're trying to solve a human problem with math. The problem isn't the math, it is the humans. The Federal minimum wage is outlawed in a majority of states so talking about it is pointless. 12-17 dollars an hour is not anywhere close to absolute poverty. How much someone needs to survive is relative to each person's choices. If you only make 12 dollars an hour and can't survive on that, then you need to find a way to make more. It's very simple if you remove the emotion from the discussion.
What about NO LOITERING laws?
Define loitering?
How does that provide housing?
how the hell can a homeless person be a frackin' - R E S I D E N T - of any community? i would think that a "shelter"
is established out of COMPASSION, and that it would be available to all as long as space allows - i lived 30 min away
in medford, and what these "people" want to do is put them in jail for being homeless - and the whole "over the line"
story is that 2 miles outside of grants pass is another county - dump them there/ go there, or jail
Barrett is on the right track with what she's getting at here and I think there's only one logical solution to this issue. You can't have what are essentially quality of life laws without giving people a legal way to do things like use the bathroom or sleep. You can provide public restrooms and either shelters or legal places to camp and then ban (by threat of jail time or fines) public urination/defecation and camping on the sidewalk or you can take an alternate approach and allow the wild west free-for-all of camping and defecation anywhere that California is known for. But you can't cheap out and have the bans without providing the facilities. There has to be some legal means for people with no money to execute required biological processes. And honestly you probably could apply that to eating as well but there the federal government provides food stamps to all Americans so it's sort of a moot point.
You can’t get food stamps very often if you’re able bodied or don’t have an address, which would be the problem with homelessness.
Freedom of movement, right to travel - this is disgraceful.
Uncle Sam keeps the border open and drugs flowing. Then kicks the addict while they're down.
Shhhh🤫...... You can't tell the truth on here. The highest of the Injustice systems cohorts doesn't even show their face during hearings🤡🏛️🤡.... Just listen along 📻🎬🎩🃏
Addicts who live on the streets are a danger for everyone.
Think Trump for at.
@@david4096 What an ignorant comment. You obviously have not been following the news.
Looking at what is being argued at the highest court says alot about our society it is definitely depressing this is what all our ancestors fought and died for, all those generations but like any other civilization their is a beginning and a end one day humanity will figure it out or we wont
I don’t care what definition you put it under your punishing that person by not allowing them to use your facility
The question is: whose responsibility is it to meet basic human needs?
All of us. Stop being selfish, and looking the other way.
In a truly free country, people have personal responsibility inasmuch as they have mental culpability for their choices and actions. Other individuals and groups are free to provide charitable assistance with their resources as they deem appropriate and prudent. I remember helping a hospitalized patient overcome an infection from heroin injections and then trying to connect him with addiction recovery resources while he was sober and hospitalized. He very clearly and soberly stated that he was not interested in changing his situation at all. Those people cannot be helped until they are willing to help themselves and accept assistance from others. Although their choices may lead to outcomes and suffering that we personally find unacceptable, in a free country they get to live with the choices they are making. The assumption that every homeless person is a victim is erroneous. Some are, some aren't. They still need to have civil rights under the constitution and equal protection under the law.
@@NDcompetitiveshooterthey’re BEING victimized. Because you’re trying to criminalize their life choices that literally have no affect on you. If someone wants to get high and die on the street why is that any problem of yours?
Are you gonna turn away a drunk persom?
We do nothing to help Americans, we got open wide borders attracting more homeless and needy but yet we have our own suffering and dying. We need to stop taking people in until we got some form control on this. I blame HUD for not taking people on lists and finding suitable housing. I blame the realtors for greedily making application fees impossible. I blame business's for not allowing usage of their restrooms. There should be a rental cap and all these well to do town needs to stop thinking they are above housing anyone poor. Being poor does not mean they are bad people it means they have more life challenges to work through. Our country is horrible when we give more to other countries then we do for our own people. I blame demonrats fully for this. Reality is anyone on SSI and SSD cannot afford the rents out there now a days and there should be a cap and end of all slumlords. Slumlords should be jailed this includes greedy realty business's that bulk buy places and run them into the ground.
No, we do not have open borders. Why don't you ask your representatives to pass the border bill??
For one it always takes a viilage, we the people are not willing to village these from outside the village. VILLAGE key word.
What about living in a van? Can you live in a van, goto work and then return to your van?
Shelter for sure, but would it qualify as homeless, what about truck drivers who live and work in their truck?
They have spaces at Truck Stops to park their trucks and sleep.
This is just a puzzle piece, as the lawyer says, to give the government a way to lock citizens up based on a status that they have the power to put people in. Take citizens to court and bankrupt them into homelessness. Then take them to jail over and over again... It's a puzzle piece, and the thing intends on using it.
The assertion that shelters restrict admissions to "residents" is ABSURD and a lie. The homeless are by definite not residents because they don't have a home. They are home-less. Shelters never turn someone away until they run out of beds or if a particular individual has been barred due to past behaviors.
The idea that not all DO doesn’t mean that some do not do this.
@@chavvy9074 SO tell me how a homeless person proves they are a resident, if they don't have an address. Hmmm? Better yet, call ANY shelter and ask if they turn away non-residents.
No more money for any foreign countries... zero!
Until we fix our own problems!
More shelters more affordable housing and metal ill sent to hospitals
Psychiatric hospitals mostly closed after the ACLU got courts to rule them unconstitutional. Can't keep the mentally ill locked up if they are lucid on meds. Also can't force them to take meds.
I like how she said urination on public property?? So all the homeless will just go piss on the sides of private residences I guess??
Serves 'em right if the city would implement such a thing. The NIMBYs can house people in their backyards until the NIMBYs demand housing solutions for the poor and disenfranchised.
Experiencing addresslessness is not a crime. Becoming a city settler and seeking a place to settle down is how we all became Americans.
i see. so that means if 30-60k grizzly bears were relocated from british columbia and alaska or kamchatka to the lower 48 northwest in the specified zones with the most populated encampments while also in short term starving the bears prior to release at the entry points and paths, it would be unusual but not cruel, if we consider how many bears do not trust tents. its cruel if we prevent homeless from living like native americans.
How would relocating thousands of hungry bears onto people not be cruel? Either I have completely missed your sarcasm or if you are serious then you I would strongly encourage you to seek out some mental help.
@@MagnumCarta i do apologize if your threshold of comfort, and security, has been compromised, however nature is not always convenient. theres not always shelter to be found. what might be cruel to protesters or criminals may very well be sanctuary and a safe space for ursus horribilis.
the War on Poverty.
The part always missing about the "Homeless" people is the "Why are they homeless"? There are a variety of reasons, but on is FAR more prominent than the others, addiction (drugs, alcohol, etc. Most are "Homeless" by choice!
People can be homeless for any reason. A simple house fire, natural disaster, divorce, sudden job layoff, robbed, etc.. I mean the list goes on, which could then lead to substance abuse.
18-22% on drugs
@@daughterofthecreator2585 In Portland OR, the homeless ratio is over 90%. I'm not sure where you got your data, but please share.
Relocate the homeless to Gaza
Put all these people in California
Easy
They already do. State governments quite literally bus their homeless out to California. Stop being a useful one.
Homelessness is not a crime.
Homelessness is not a sin.
Right but camping in urban areas is illegal. Abusing your body and others are sins. Most homeless do both.
Stealing food is a sin. It's what many homeless do. Why not take some of them in. At least they might not steal.
Sin is the transgression of the law - 1 Jn 3:4
There is no Law requiring someone to have a home, or conversely against being homeless.
But there is a Law against taking what does not belong to you, defacing what does not belong to you or destroying what does not belong to you. Intent is irrelevant, which is why the Law made accommodations - but not exceptions - for accidental, forced and even unknowing transgressions.
Homelessness is not a sin, but neither is it a liberty to commit sin.
@@thomasalvis2282 I agree.
@@thomassenbart whatever excuse let's you do nothing and not care, I guess.
I would like to know why the Supreme Court is wasting time with attorney's talking about hypothetical bullshit. I thought the Supreme Court is supposed to be hearing and discussing real court cases.
SCOTUS looks to define their cases off of the US Constitution which acts as the "law of the land" and a bedrock set of principles to base all other laws off of. The importance of contextualizing issues such as against the 8th amendment is to ask the question how these other laws implemented impact citizens rights based on the US Constitution. The hypothetical arguments are also to contextualize issues to see how much existing laws being argue in the course of the case impact said laws based off of the Constitution. I hope that makes sense.
@@MagnumCarta Thank you yes it does I appreciate your response.
So make shelters do housing first program. You azzez
Ten minutes away is Rogue River, there's nowhere here to build a shelter, there's only the Valley of the Rogue State Park with camping and RV sites. Anyone who steals food here there is stupid so much for free
I think I will worry about the homeless when I find a safe bunker or deep cave to avoid nuclear disaster.
Its American land of the haves and have nots. Land of the Self-righteous
Homeless for Day !!! ... lets all sleep outdoors for a night and see how cops handle it . 😂😂😂
Omg, 7 years ago, my neighbors would walk out of their house and urinate on the side of my house in Memphis TN at McDonald's in Memphis kids were watching a man urinate on a newspaper stand.
Yea, well the McDonald’s probably wouldn’t let him use the bathroom without buying something, so where else would he go?
Isn't cruel and unusual punishment in regard to treatment of criminals?
Taking care of others is not the states responsibility unless we're a socialist nation
According to the Ninth Circuit, camping in a cardboard box on a public street is a Constitutional right, but the Second Amendment is a dead letter.
Can’t find housing food clothes and medical for an American citizen whoare Homeless But yet some states provide Housing Food Clothing medical care for Illegals and are encouraging them to be squatter’s on American citizens property. This is infuriating. Put America First. Help Americans citizens First
This is heartless case! People who are homeless should be called criminals. They are down on their luck. How about working on corporate greed. How about working on giving people a livable wage. How about working on making housing more affordable. How about making it affordable to rent a house or apartment.
Spoken like someone who has never spent more than a minute around homeless people. Given the rest of your rhetoric, I'd say you are progressive which makes sense why you haven't spent time around homeless people.
@@mistere5857you sound like someone who subscribes to stereotypes.
public urination is the definition of homeless.. where else they going to do it? this is no difference with the sleeping argument
why can't they put out port potty problem solved