Microinverters vs String Inverters - What's the difference?
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Hey, solar enthusiasts! Welcome back to the PSC Solar Academy. I'm Jake Warner, your guide from the Penrith Solar Center. In today's video, we're diving deep into the world of microinverters and string inverters. We'll explore the pros and cons of each, helping you make an informed decision for your home or business.
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Key Points Covered:
Introduction:
Learn the differences between microinverters and string inverters.
Understand the advantages and disadvantages of both options.
Architecture Overview:
Explore how microinverters and string inverters handle DC energy from solar panels.
Understand the safety implications of DC vs. AC energy in your home.
String Inverters:
Discover why string inverters are prevalent in Australia.
Learn how they work and the common features you might recognize.
Microinverters - The Enphase Solution:
Introduce the Enphase microinverter as a decentralized, hidden alternative.
Highlight the safety benefits of AC energy and the installation process.
Advantages of Enphase Microinverters:
Performance: Illustrate the analogy of a four-lane highway vs. a single lane.
Reliability: Explore Enphase's durability and safety features.
Shading Performance: Showcase the efficiency in shaded conditions.
Monitoring: Discuss the transparent monitoring platform for panel-level data.
Expansion and Future-Proofing: Highlight the flexibility for system growth.
Disadvantages of Enphase Microinverters:
Address the cost factor and the longer payback period.
Discuss the dependence on genuine Enphase components for installation.
Advantages of String Inverters:
Cost: Explain the cost savings compared to microinverter systems.
Convenience: Touch on the advantages of having a visible screen for monitoring.
Installation Speed: Discuss the faster installation process and accessibility.
Disadvantages of String Inverters:
Safety Concerns: Highlight fire risks associated with cheap components.
Central Point of Failure: Discuss the extended downtime during inverter replacement.
Shading Performance: Address the challenges of shading affecting the entire system.
Noise: Mention the noise levels produced by string inverters.
Warranty: Emphasize the shorter warranty periods and limitations.
Thanks for joining us today at the PSC Solar Academy. Don't forget to hit the like button, subscribe for more solar insights, and share your thoughts in the comments below. Whether you're Team Microinverter or Team String Inverter, make the right choice for your solar journey!
Timestamps
0:00 intro
0:46 How A Microinverter and String Inverter Operate
2:33 What is a Microinverter?
3:53 Advantages of a Microinverter
5:02 Reliability of a Microinverter
6:42 Shading Advantages of a Microinverter
7:30 Safety of a Microinverter
8:04 Monitoring your Solar System with a Microinverter
8:53 Expansion & Future-Proofing
9:48 Adding a Solar Battery
10:05 Disadvantages of a Microinverter (Price)
11:07 Manufacture Dependance
11:44 What is a String Inverter?
12:18 Advantages of a String inverter
13:40 Compatibility
14:05 Disadvantages of a String Inverters (Safety)
15:44 Central Point Of Failure
18:55 Shading
20:05 Safety
21:00 Loud Noise
21:40 Warranty (Micro vs String)
22:18 Which is best?
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Any voltage over 50V is enough to kill you, AC or DC...there's nothing "safer" about AC over 50V. Bypass diodes & power optimizers should resolve any shading issues for string inverters. A string inverter is a single point of failure which can be replaced with any other string inverter versus micro-inverters which must all be compatible with each other,. Which means you're stuck with Enphase because both installers & homeowners can't trust any other brand of micro-inverter to still be in business a decade or more from now.
What is the amount of labor involved in replacing a microinverter vs a string inverter if one fails?
The only time you want micro inverters is if your roof has multiple angles. If your roof is flat SMA or Fronius string inverter all the way.
SMA Lol !!!
Have you heard of bypass diodes? Can you figure out how they work? If you can , you will understand that you are laying.
Maybe if you actually truly understand what bypass diodes are for, then you wouldn't have made this comment.
@@alzuu1 I do understand. I design electronics.
@@sveinmedhus4156 Then that's really worrying, lol. Bypass diodes are just one part of a whole array of things in a solar system and doesn't inherently say anything about the system as a whole. Most panels nowadays have bypass diodes which is primary used for shading issues within the cell system. In regards to shade, micros will always have better performance albeit it could be by a small difference. The points he made are all pretty much correct.
Many very good points, but I think you downplay the advantages of having string inverters on the ground rather than up there under each panel. You can ruggedize the heck out of an electronic circuit all you want, but sitting underneath a black solar panel in the heat of the day is a terrible environment and it can and will take a heavy toll on capacitors over time and make them fail. What good is having a 25 year warranty/life on a panel if it’s attached microinverter is going to fail in 10 years anyway?
I can replace my own string inverter in an hour, which is even more important if my installer goes out of business. Well over half the solar installers go out of business in 10 years, so I want a backup repair plan when things fail…and things always fail over time.
Also, you don’t consider that having a microinverter on every panel means you have many more points of failure. More circuits = more circuits that might fail.
Finally, back to installers again which you do admit is number 1 most important consideration. As a customer, I’m faced with primarily two kinds of installers to choose from. There are the good honest cheap installers that are giving customers great value for money. And there are the guys who sell the cheapest stuff they can and charge the most for it to maximize profits. The problem is the first guys are operating on a tiny thread (money wise) and are the most likely to hit a rough patch and go out of business. The second guys are going to rake in the money, so they can afford to advertise and get bigger and bigger, but as that cheap crap fails after a few years, they will start to have more and more unhappy customers and they will be the most likely to just cash in their chips and fold up shop. All of which means we customers get screwed either way and we are better off getting a system that we can service ourselves, or is so simple their local electrician can figure it out and replace components when there’s trouble.
You got an 25 year warranty in the US and Europe for the Microinverter, Australia 15? Years. But don`t worry, in these 15/25 years one of the panels is going to fail too. And without Microinverters, the whole string will go down and it will be hard to find out the panel whick f***s the whole thing. Probably my solution is going to be a string with Solar optimizers. Best of both worlds (almost) and survaullance of each module like with string inverters, just cheaper. Search for "Solar optimizers" or "tigo optimizer". Only thing is you stay high voltage DC current.
And pls let me get final, which is the best micro or string?? In your concern
@@user-zg3lf4wq3r It depends on your roof, needs, blackouts basycally.
ex-sparkie and electronics guy here... ...why would DC would be more dangerous than AC? Oh string inverters use optimizers, so shade is not a problem.And they shut voltage to 1 volt when not getting comm from the inverter. AND you get panel level data. And I'm just adding 4 more panels to my SolarEdge inverter at the moment. I find this Enphase video quite a bit misleading...
There are negatives to Enphase microinverters, you lose a lot more of the power that your solar panels create because you change convert back and forth from DC to AC or AC back to DC up to 3 times if you have batteries and each time you lose electricity (in heat) created when it changes. Also Enphase is extremely proprietary in that you must use their parts and if you have an Enphase system and you want a home backup battery system you pretty much have to use Enphase batteries because they have Enphase Microinverters inside the batteries to convert the power from DC to AC just like the microinverters on the solar panels and then you lose even more electricity. You lose some power every time your system does a conversion due to heat and transfer losses and that is the honest truth.
Most energy is used AC current direct or sold to the grid ... In the end through this you will come out net zero, or even some bucks on the AC side (Unless you are not totally off grid)
Enphase will own you since you can't go anywhere else.
Looking for an unbiased comparison, and this isn't it
Panels are fairly cheap, if you have the land string inverters for the win, if you have space issues and want to nab as much as you can...micro inverters
Mciroinverters sound great BUT what if in like 12 years 6 of my 38 microinverters go out and now they are on IQ20s. Will they be backwards compatible? Will emphases replace all 38? No. Will emphases still be in business? If I am the installer then it seems like best case Enphase would send me whatever they have at the time, but will have to buy other equipment to make another system for my 6 new micros. Too bad micro inverters aren’t more independent.
Nice overview!!
Mate, this is a great overview. If I lived in your area I call you first thing. Best-
Hi I have one question about enphase micro inverters installers are not providing DC side SPDs only AC side whereas in string inverters installers are providing SPDs on both sides. Is that unsafe for these micros .
Excellent overview. We’re very happy with our Enphase system as our house is surrounded by trees which, while beautiful and providing cooling shade in summer, would play havoc with a string inverter system.
Once Aus moves to the enphase Qi8 inverters what happens then for all the people stuck with Qi7 will
They be compatible with each other?
iQ7 and iQ8 sorry.
LOL never heard about halfcut sell and bypass diodes? The time that 1 panel infect the other in a string setup is old and belong to the past. String inverters also have mttp these days. There is a reason that 85-90% installs have string inverters.
Hope enphase are paying you guys well. 90% of ppl are using string unless shading is a problem.
Why are you saying that DC voltage is more dangerous than AC ?
Thanks for this info!
My only question is how a Microinverter system works with batteries?
I know they can, but isn't there a huge loss of efficiency going from DC to AC, then back to DC to store power, then back to AC to deliver power to your home?
It seems I would lose about 10% for every DC-AC change, so I think that would be as much as 30% for me.
I can see where on-grid the simplification would make sense despite a 10 to 20% efficiency loss, but I live off-grid, so don't really need phase-matching AC.
Would I be better off with a string inverter and optimizers?
I have access to inexpensive panels, so the added cost of optimizers is actually more than the panels, and I would still need AC-DC and DC-AC conversion equipment (AC-DC charge controllers and DC-AC inverter).
There’s approximately a 15-20% loss of power in the double conversion
But since you use most of the "harvested" Solarpower as AC in your home directly or you are selling big parts especially in sunny times it to the grid, it is not a real difference. Actually I saw a Video of a German engineer, who showed a AC System is even cheaper or less loss. Also don´t forget there is also conversion in DC Systems. 1000V String to low voltage batteries, then also back to AC.
You have to look at the round trip efficiency - DC systems aren't that much higher than AC systems.
So, if your microinverters are such a perfect solution, tell me: how much will a COMPLETE installation (without the costs of racks, installation and PV panels) with a capacity of little bit below 50 kWp - a hundred PV panels.
And I'll tell you how much traditional inverters with traditional strings cost me. Just for the record, I would like to add that my inverters also support a very large LiFePO4 battery and export excess energy to the grid, automatically selecting ONLY the periods with the highest profitability, so the three-year operation of my system has already paid off! Because my system exports energy to the grid not during the period of greatest sunlight, but when there is the greatest demand for energy in the grid, it consequently achieves the highest prices.
Additionally, my inverters charge batteries from the grid, not from PV panels, when the grid energy price is NEGATIVE, which is how I earn extra money, which microinverters certainly cannot do.
Series-Parallel says hello as If my roof as multiple sides i can Parallel each side so that the weak side doesn't affect the side getting more sun.
AC grid power goes out and so does your micro inverter system!
Enphase IC Q8 Microinverters can build their own grid ;-) So that reason is not valid anymore ...
Completely neglected the bypass diodes ... passing lanes in your highway analogy.
A topic that's in the pipeline - thanks for your comment - Dan
Run two string inverters in parallel. Solved. If one goes down, you still have half your capacity while you wait for the disabled one to be replaced.
He really was putting the hard sell on those micro inverters
Enphase marketing gimmicks aside:
If you have any kind of shade you need Enphase? Not really people have tested this and the difference is around 2-5 percent. Typically the string inverter in peak sun will slight outperform the Enphase system with Enphase picking up the slack later in the day.
Central point of failure in the Enphase system is the IQ combiner box. Enphase offers a superb 25 year warranty for the Microinverters but with their combiner box... 5 years... hmm likely to fail maybe.
AC coupled systems have efficiency losses when adding battery storage. These efficiency losses can approach 10 percent of total system output when you factor DC-AC at the panel then AC to DC back to the battery. This is not the case with DC connected string inverters which reach efficiencies as high as 97-99 percent. Not to mention most microinverters have a substantial amount of clipping as panel power has outpaced microinverter output.
As far as safety is concerned RSD or rapid shutdown devices are required at the panel level in most states whether you have microinverter or string inverter. For home insurance reasons there is no extra discount for going with specifically an AC couple solar panel option. If the other option was so dangerous insurance providers would drop home coverage for sting inverter solar systems but as you can see that is just not the case.
Cost - I have received quote for Enphase systems and they have been at the very least 5-10 thousand dollars more than a comparable string inverter system like the PowerWall3. Payoff time for an extra 5-10 thousand can be 4-8 years more for Enphase depending on rates and usage.
Aesthetics - A single Powerwall inverter battery system or the equivalent 3 separate battery boxes, loads panel (usually), IQ Combiner Box and all the interconnected conduit.
All that being said I still really do like the Enphase solution. I just wish that they would step up the panel wattage support, create a solution for housing multiple components into a single housing to reduce install costs/complexity.
This was brought to you by which brand again... starts with an E... don't think he mentioned it 😂
All roads lead to pushing product...advert 😂
dumb comparison with cars: modern solar panels have bypass diodes (mind you didn't know that) ...
I will not even start, with what is all wrong in this video. But many also already pointed it out
@mcelectrical looks like another fake video about string inverters
There were many people didn’t believe automobile will replace horse cart. Please don’t be one of it. Microinverter is the future.
If you look at the majority of installers they’ve moved away from
Micro inverters due to the cost when something goes wrong. If an inverter goes you need to track down which one went and that’s at your cost not the installer or manufacturer
@@behindthebuild8016you takin the piss??? You don’t know much about micros ay. Not even worth a reply.
Ok Shazza back on the pipe u go
You are very misleading. Most panels have diodes that allow them to be isolated when one is shaded so it no longer causes a large power drop. And micro inverters fail a lot and cost a lot to get someone to replace them. It is clear that you are making money from installing these. You also did not talk about optimizers.
Some facts, but basically snake-oil and pushy pitch. The best way to exploit micro-invertors on a panel by panel basis when shading is an issue, is to fit an ideal diode (FET) underneath every single cell within a panel. No solar panel manufacturer has done this - YET. When only 1 or two cells on a panel are shaded, it does not take out the panel as an energy contributor if this is done.
AND - if they go to the trouble of doing that (cheap and simple), a crude DC-DC invertor integrated into the panel removes most of the other string and wiring nonsense that seems to have created a silly priesthood of sorts.
Here in Britain, we have a saying “the D in DC, stands for death”!
depends on the voltage if high enough DC and AC just kill differently thats all. AC is not safer!
@@userra42ye-ii9nn The reason why DC is considered more dangerous than AC is because, when you have an AC electric shock the bodies muscles clench and then relax. With DC the muscles just clench. So if you should inadvertently grab hold of a live AC cable you have the chance to let go of the cable. With DC you will clamped onto the cable, and not be able to let go. You shouldn’t be working on live cables, but accidents do happen. That’s why you should be extra cautious when working on DC.
@@tonyw.6813only one aspect of a multitude of factors... Power is dangerous and also your helper...u never know when your time is due...enough of the fear focus
One is an apple user and the other is an Android user... Apple users pay more in the end for less capability LOL
Enphase, Enphase, Enphase. They'd better be paying you.
Micro inverters cannot last 20yrs in the summer heat. The cost of identifying and replacing one in an array of panels could easily hit $17000. With a string inverter, you just replace the box.
Micro inverters are not safer than string inverters because any voltage greater than 50 volts can kill a human. None of them is therefore safer.
Micro inverter not macro inverter! Pronounce the I not A
Or is it just the Australian accent?
Wow, you're painting some nasty scenario about string inverter.
Its disappointing to see an expert giving misleading information about shading modules in string inverters . I hope you take this comment in a constructive way from an industry colleague
That’s just the solar industry. Misleading and shortcuts on jobs.
AC current is more dangerous than DC current, that is FACT!
And these MicroInverters are sooo fu*king insanely EXPANSIVE, yes good concept etc but again someone dreaming 2be super reach over night, thanks but no thanks!
When time comes, I will design for my roof DIY Microinverters, by my terms with a lot of spare parts for long working live
Yes, endless scenarios...😊
ah yeah, you just mentioned shading - shame on you ...