Hard Starts vs Soft Starts w/ Matteo Giovanetti
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2022
- Matteo Giovanetti from Micro-Air joins the HVAC School podcast to talk about the differences between soft starts vs. hard starts. Matteo explains how Micro-Air’s EasyStart works and how it differs from traditional hard start gear.
Micro-Air’s “EasyStart” provides a soft start rather than a hard start. A hard start abruptly ramps up the voltage and current to the motor start; the EasyStart causes a much gentler start that results from a gradual voltage and current increase on the start AND run windings.
The EasyStart marks a paradigm shift in how we think about “saving” compressors. It attempts to avoid drawing unnecessary inrush current, which is very common with hard starts. Hard starts may even lead to premature failure if the potential relay fails and can’t take the start capacitor out of the circuit.
EasyStart has a different wiring configuration compared to hard start kits. A hard start kit consists of a start capacitor wired in series with a potential relay, which increases the torque on the compressor and removes the start capacitor from the circuit. The EasyStart has four wires; the black and white wires (L1 and L2) connect directly to the contactor, a brown wire that splices directly to the run winding, and an orange wire to the HERM terminal of the run capacitor.
EasyStart also records information about the compressor during the first few startups to optimize its performance. It also monitors overcurrent and fault conditions with phase detection; when it detects a stall, it shuts off the compressor and doesn’t attempt to restart it until a few minutes have passed.
Matteo and Bryan also discuss:
EasyStart models
Solar, generator, and RV use
Impedance
Positive temperature coefficient resistors (PTCRs)
Compressors running backward
EasyStart’s Bluetooth capabilities
Tech support and product education
Offering useful upgrades to customers
Running and starting watt specifications for generators
Learn more about EasyStart or purchase it directly from www.microair.net/. You can also contact the manufacturer by email at sales@microair.net.
You can view the EasyStart home installation video at • Micro-Air EasyStart Ho... .
Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes, and find our handy calculators at www.hvacrschool.com/.
I was hoping you would cover this subject! I bought the micro-wire soft start for my condenser and was wondering what you thought of them
I appreciate honestly debunking the claim thrown around about saving energy/utility cost with a soft start. I bought and installed a MicroAir Easystart for my heat pump after setting up a portable generator connection with interlock to my main panel. I think you may have neglected to mention, or at least didn't emphasize, the additional benefit of making start up audibly quieter. Matteo personally responded to my installation and operation questions since it was a new model. An engineer myself, I really appreciate his candor, responsiveness, and helpfulness. I'm a frugal guy, but feel really good about that purchase.
Thanks for making and sharing this video. Great information, I like your styles.
Ive watched hundreds of videos on hard/soft starters and this video was one of the most helpful of them all. Thank you for making this video!
*Matteo made his EE chops working for DEC, the company where Ken Olsen hired only the best talent. Fact that MicroAir hired Matteo speaks well for that firm's excellent decision-making. Cheers!*
I put a Micro Air on my Heat Pump a few months ago. It's such a fantastic product. I installed it to help get a longer life out of the compressor but now I'm starting to get quotes for solar so it's good to know that I'll be good to go from the heat pump side of things. Thanks for this video, it made me feel even better out my purchase. One small suggestion I have is be to give just a bit more wire length.
Thanks Brian for another great guest interview. Looks forward to more with Matteo as his product evolves.
That was excellent, I've looked around before but it was great to see it explained that it actually does control the run winding.
I appreciate this talk and information. If everyone knew this, they would install this device more often. thanks
Great video! I have an 368 on a 3 ton carrier (heat pump I live in the south) unit for a year and love it, but I never fully understood it until this video. What a awesome product!
Thank you for the added information on the EasyStart. I recently installed the EasyStart on my 4 ton A/C and it dropped by inrush by over 60%. It was very simple to install and mount, taking about 30 minutes.
Best commercial ever! Watchable, informative and intersting.
I love this channel, very informative! Thank you Brian & Mateo for this particular video, I’ve learned a lot from watching.
I’m excited to install the Micro Air Soft Start on my system later this week.
This is sooooooooo good im glad engineers and vets in the industry are coming together to ensure knowledge is spread correctly. Thank you!
I've been contemplating getting one of these of about a year.....15 minutes into the video, I'm sold! Thanks for explaining with technical data and facts....no emotions needed to convince me...great product!!
THANK YOU so much for this great video.
I just had a hard start kit and "permanent" switch put on my 9 year old Lennox 3 ton compressor.
But my buddy just bought a brand new home and after watching this I'm advising him to install the "Easy Start" soft starter in both his compressors.
An old DEC guy! Very cool. My sister was a DEC field tech and I used the PDP-1160 in a former life as a civilian contractor to the US Navy! Very enjoyable and technical discussion ! Thanks for having Matteo as a guest!
LOL! Thanks, Peter! Yup, I was there back before the PC revolution using the best VAX mainframe and PDP-11 real-time computers to do some wild stuff...at least for that era.
@@MicroairNet
Hola Mateo, I learned to program before the PC. We'd log into VAX and IBM machines with terminals (some CRT, some teletype) over the phone at 110 baud. Literally dial a phone then insert the handset into an acoustic coupler. Seemed pretty amazing at the time, being an electronics hobbyist since about age five.
@@MicroairNetI was laughing at 4Gb. My first HD was235Mb. I may pull the trigger on this thing for my 15yo 2T Goodman while it's still healthy.
EasyStart sounds awesome. Thanks for sharing this video.
Great video!! Lots of good info. Been watching lots of videos on this micro air soft start. I cant wait to get one for the house so i can run ac AND heat! Great company and products!!!
I worked on a unit the other day that had one of these. Thought it was pretty slick. Start Amps were super low. It was a 4 ton unit. Very impressed
When you say start amps are you referring to LRA?
@@ljv2094 I assume just the start up amps not necessarily or in that case locked rotor amps
Great info! I had no idea how much complexity there is in the few milliseconds in which a AC system is started or restarted. Can't wait to install this on my own system.
Fantastic! This is the best explanation of a soft-start I have ever seen (after 40+ years as an industrial electrician). Considering the cost of a replacement compressor (plus labor) the Micro-Aire is an exceptional bargain. BTW - cost is not the only consideration, don't forget to factor-in the inconvenience of being w/o an HVAC for a number of days waiting for repair. Absolutely applies to RV's as well where a repair/replacement might take a week or more - potentially ruining a vacation!
Very nice informative video. I'm going to look at installing on my 18yr old unit. It's still kicking butt and I've only replaced a start capacitor on the outside unit.
This is a great device for PSC Motors , especially with the growing demand for solar and generator backup systems. The problem is the days of the PSC Motors are dying and inverter systems & ECM Motors will be taking over whether we like it or not.
Bryan , another great video. Hopefully there will be a little less eye rolling when you mention the word “engineer”. I grew up as the only technician in a large family of engineers and believe me they call me more than I call them when problems occur. We still need better communications between the technicians and the engineers; this video is a good example on how to improve it👍.
engineer is a technician with the ability to set up equations and manipulate numbers to arrive at a unique answer.
Inverter systems have a VFD, and a VFD is basically a soft starter with speed control… So, problem solved!
@@melaniecotterell8263 *Would love to agree with you. However after 50+ years as a Tech have seen to many pre-grad, EE interns grab the wrong end of a soldering iron. Only once, of course...*
My Micro Air Easy Start 364Blue is on the way for my 2 1/2 ton.
Hopefully the 368 will work on my 3 1/2 ton heat pump. Thx for
this in-depth explanation.
I helped wire my house for a portable generator about 2 years ago. It will run my AC but it puts a lot of load on my generator. I just bought a 368 for a 3 ton Trane. Installing it this weekend. I will have a lot more piece of mind when this is finished. Looks like a very well thought out product. My gen is a 9500-12500 btw.
Ok i have one coming soon, 5 ton! Perfect for this Fl weather.
I just picked one up. Easy as cake to install 4 wires. Worked like a charm. No more lights dimming in my house from my 4 ton AC. my Ridged Generator 7200 starts up AC now with zero issue. Before I could not run the AC.
Great job Tom...!!👏
Love this! Great explaination!!
Thanks Matteo. I figure I can always take it off before the HVAC guy comes. They'll never the wiser!!
I don't know electronics but as a kid I made an electromagnet. LOL. And I tackle electrical stuff in my home. We had a new AC installed about 5 years ago but it was done when the furnace failed in the middle of winter. To be honest, at that point in time all I needed and wanted was to get our heat back and replace the HVAC without breaking the bank. This looks like a good product to protect my compressor so I'm getting one. Our power goes out regularly and I've been thinking about a small backup generator for the house. But we're healthy and even though I'm in Virginia the AC is a comfort not an essential. But what a great thing for reducing the power needed to start an AC.
I’m just a home owner here in Florida facing hurricane season every year. I’m preparing to purchase a replacement inverter generator as a backup and this video was so informative. I wonder if I can install this myself? Much of this terminology is new to me but I’m willing to follow well done instructions. Thanks for such great info!
Just a quick follow up here. I read every single comment here and a few were quite negative. One claimed that there is no data proving that the soft start kit would lengthen the life of the compressor. Frankly that’s not why most people buy it in the first place. I would not be able to start my 4 ton heat pump using a reasonably priced backup generator. I’m in!
If you still haven't installed it, it is very easy as long as you are comfortable working with electricity. Micro Air has good documentation and support.
It lengthened the life of my AC compressor just last month because my run capacitor failed. Easystart detected this due to the higher than expected run current, and cut off the compressor within 2 seconds before it could be damaged.
*From one Florida Man to another. Have one word for you: GENERAC. Cheers!*
I'm also in Florida and just bought a 12kw generator to power the house during hurricane season. Were you able to install the soft start?
I'm sold on this unit and the technology too..... right up to the point where I priced out the #368. At over $400 including tax and shipping, makes it a hard pill to swallow. I understand that the longevity of the compressor motor and related hardware will benefit in the long run, but OUCH!
I just heard of a soft start for the first time a week ago, and the concept seems sound. My A/C is only two years old, so I'm seriously considering one for my system.
Ive used these extensivly and put them in a ton of RV's and some residential systems. RV AC units are terrible for starting efficency. Now try and start 15k units with an inverter even a nice hybrid inverter you must have one of these. I have 3 of them on my personal RV and they have been running for 4 years almost continiously. These are great units. My personal units went from 66A lock rotor to 27A with microair. My father in law owns a large motor shop and he uses these things as well. We were doing a power issue track down for a Police Department at the time so we stuck some of the expensive Fluke gear on my RV to see if they actually did what they say they do. Father in law was skeptical at first but the test equipment said what it said.
Great information.
I knew Matteo from way way back. As well as Andy and Micro Air. Good folks for sure
OMG! Hi Mike! Great to hear from you! Hope all is well on the Space Coast of Florida!
@@MicroairNet long time my brother. Cranking like always. Give everyone my love and prayers. Please stay in touch. Remember when Andy developed generator controls for the Westerbeke 7.6’s that were going into the ambulances? They ran the jaws of life to cut people out of wrecked cars. I believe the company was E1.. God bless, love ya..
Love to see an installation video for use with the Amana two stage heat pump with ComfortAlert diagnostic module that is installed from the factory.
Actually the Emerson Surestart softstart wires the same and exclusively controls the Run winding. The Easystart competitor seems very derivative. The Emerson product was acquired or rebranded from Hyper Engineering. Hyper Engineering was selling it at least ten years ago. CZcams's DrZarkloff has a Hyper soft start video from Jan 2012. Did this engineer work with Hyper or Emerson? I like his packaging and bluetooth features. Emerson's Surestart learns over ten starts. They suggest it monitors for under voltage and quick dropouts to prevent reversed operation with shutdowns reset in three minutes. Emerson uses flash codes for low voltage, three failed starts and over current. Also flash codes for out of range voltage, frequency and failed run cap. Their literature also discusses generator use and has a very similar chart for starting amps with and without, using slightly different values. Emerson shows a three ton at 82 amps without their softstart and 28.7 amps with. A comparison of the competing products would be interesting. The pricing is very similar. Finally major manufactures do build softstarting into their inverter products.
Totally awesome !!!
great discussion!
Super cool interview! Installed on an older 4 ton res unit and it works wonderfully. Installed it so I could run AC in the event of power outages as it regularly gets over 110°f out here. Since installing, we've run on generator a few times and it's perfect. Used to stall the 11kw genset before but not any more. Now the genset can still run the water well while keeping the house cool. The compressor seems quieter or maybe a little smoother? since the Micro-Air went in. It's not Air Conditioning to us, it's Life Support.
Hi Paul. Thanks for your comment and for your business. Yes, EasyStart does actually quiet the audible noise that the compressor makes during startup! We didn't think this was of great importance to our customers at first, but literally hundreds of people - especially in the RV and home markets - now comment on this because such compressor noises can adversely affect light sleepers. The reason there is less audible noise is because of the gentler acceleration. Think of hard starting like hitting a bell with a hammer, and soft starting like hitting it with a pillow.
@@MicroairNet thanks for the reply!
I prefer to think of the soft start as someone who knows how to drive a manual transmission versus some kid who pushes the clutch down puts the engine to red line and sidesteps the clutch. Okay maybe not a good analogy but fun anyway.. Love the Bluetooth aspect of the device in fact I found a capacitor going bad as a result of noticing the current going way up over normal use so that was a big plus. As long as you're close enough to the device it works beautifully on Bluetooth. Nice engineering there!
I am a generator tech, and trying to explain this to a homeowner has been like hitting a wall half the time, because they think i am just trying to upsell them something. Whole reason i watched the video is trying to find good info for sharing with them. Most want to just put the $20 hardstart on, but it doesnt actually lower inrush current.
local company tried to sell us a $600 hard start
@jamescollier3 guess it was a "hard sell"
@jamescollier3 wow, i install soft starts for that
Residential customers usually come around when their genset starts having issues maintaining load. A good clamp meter that captures inrush or peak amperage draw comes in handy. Especially if they have multiple A/C units.
Currently I’m running a hard start ( just moved in two months ago and it was already there ), 4 ton unit/ and the handler is upstairs in the middle of the house. Think it would be ok to switch out to the big daddy soft start I just bought??
We are getting solar panels and battery back up and our installer mentioned if I want to run my 3-ton AC system during a droid outage with the available power of 2 Tesla Power Walls I’d need a “soft-start’ device installed. They said they could install one but they recommended I get the company that installed it when new (it’s 4 years old). So am waiting on them to do it.
I met Matteo while working at the Viking Yachts Service Center in Riviera Beach, Fl. He is a personable face to face as he is a guest on your Podcast. He is a fantastic troubleshooter. When Eskimo ice machines were first fitted with control boards versus being electromechanical, it was Matteo who troubleshot the reason that they locked up every night with random fault codes.
HI Robert and thank you for all of your kind words! I remember that work and I of course remember you! I hope all is well!
@@MicroairNet We are not get older Matteo, we are just getting more barnacles!
I put the big unit on my 5 ton condenser for a NYC loft apartment. 120year old building, apartment units have only 70Amp 208v 3 wire feed and the microAire solved the voltage sag and lights dimming. The startup is much less violent and much quieter than with the hard start kit it replaced. I bought the naked board only without the weatherproof case and without any tech support, which saved a lot of money. Not sure if they still sell the naked board-only units..
I have a SENSE home energy monitor and I'm going to buy one of these units I can't wait to see the difference .
Matteo, thank you for such a great product. I forgot to ask will this work in conjunction with a residential Split System condenser that has the Emerson Coresense Protection device. The reason I ask is the Coresense will see the 3 minute delay and then disengage the 24vac Contactor. Would it be appropriate to enable "No Pwr-Up Delay" via the Easystart app?
Thanks for this. Another problem with generators and charging batteries plus operating an oven that turns on and off. As in an AC. The Magnum I have, supposedly either runs the appliance or charges the batteries but when the oven shuts off the generator goes low then does a gradual climb and sometimes does an overload. This might be an issue with Magnum 4000 watt inverter but having a system where you run a steady generator and it doesn't effect it when using the extra power to charge the batteries. I guess the answer is to have separate chargers and inverters. Using a combined unit that many use is this problem. That switching of 1400 watts is not immediate. The charger has to ramp up.
I have one of their soft starts on my 3 ton carrier heat pump. Starting amps went from 82 to 17. We lose power any time ice accumulates. Being all electric, that means we have no heat of any kind. With the Micro-Air, I can run the hvac system with one heat strip disconnected, and keep the house warm.
run it on what? How big is your generator? Is it an inverter generator? Is the heat pump 230v? (yes) How many heat strips are there and what is the wattage? This information is relevant.17 running amps is compressor only? 3910 watts total load, or more for circ fan and heat strips? Sounds expensive way to heat. Natural gas is cheap.
/do the heat strips preheat the air, or post heat it Preheat it so there is more heat to be extracted by the refrigerant?
Well there's a product whose implementation is long overdue! The most shocking thing to me is this wasn't developed decades ago and commonplace today. One thing I'd want not mentioned is the ability to set custom values for ramp up, delay times, overcorrect levels, etc. And the ability to monitor measured parameters realtime to produce plots of say currents of both lines and line voltage vs time for at least initiation of startup through steady state running. That could prove very instructive especially when running from alternative power sources, at will, without having to attach additional test equipment.
Skipped out on the Honda EU7000 generator. Duromax 9000 plus my easystart for the win
WOW. Early in my Carreer I installed a manufacturing (optional) hard start w/relay top shelf; it just makes the compressor sounds rough and quite concerning to the ear. I'll never take it out bc it was way tight to get installed (lots of laughs)
Awesome 👌
After watching this, I’m returning the 521 hard start I just ordered.
Would you use this device on a manufacture system with a extra long line set where the manufacturers instructions are to install a hard start kit. And you have the one-way valve installed on the liquid line at the condenser and you have a hard shut off TXV in the air handler. ?
Hi and thanks for your question. What you are describing is also typical of refrigeration systems where the evaporator (e.g. holding plate) needs to stay as cold as possible while the compressor is turned off. In such systems, the refrigerant pressures will almost never equalize, even after several hours of off time. In these systems, EasyStart is not recommended, unless you take special steps to equalize the pressures just prior to startup. We have successfully demonstrated this in some special applications by installing a bypass valve that energizes for a short period of time prior to the compressor starting up to equalize the refrigerant pressures.
@@MicroairNet this is exactly what I thought I’m glad you confirmed, That add extra expense and complexity but in some special applications may be worth it.
Made in the USA like I like !
save the compressor but how long will the soft start last? I want to see the cost comparison between a standard compressor vs soft start replacement
Great discussion! I' putting in solar and looking to make sure the heat pump stays under the peak output of the battery storage. My question is whether there are any other considerations for a 2-Stage compressor such as the Trane XL 18i? Does the soft start only apply to the first stage startup?
Hi Jack and thanks for your question. The Trane XL 18i uses a unique Emerson Copeland Scroll compressor with a solenoid valve built into the shell that directs discharge (high) pressure to the scroll plate that in turn controls how much the scroll actually pumps. With the solenoid off, the plate relaxes and the capacity of the compressor is about half of its rating. Energize the solenoid, and the compressor is at full capacity. Most of the time, the condensing unit controllers are smart enough to always start the compressor in the low-capacity mode (stage 1). Then, if your thermostat energizes the Y2 wire (in addition to Y1), the controller will turn on the solenoid and engage high-capacity (stage 2) operation, after a short delay.
For the EasyStart, thankfully the learning and optimization process for the startups will not be adversely affected since the 2-stage compressor startups will always be at the low-capacity (stage 1) setting. However, the EasyStart also learns your compressor's steady-state running current, which will be very different during low-capacity versus high-capacity operation. We have found that it is therefore best to orchestrate the EasyStart's learning process manually on a 2-stage system where you deliberately set the thermostat to a very low temperature such that it always calls for stage 2 a minute or so after starting. In this way, once the EasyStart averages the compressor's current after a 5-minute running delay, it will measure and remember the higher, 2-stage current draw. This is better since then the EasyStart uses the high-capacity current for its various compressor protection fault thresholds. Doing five 5-minute or longer runs with the thermostat set very low (i.e. Y2 energized) will therefore ensure that EasyStart properly collects and saves the high capacity (stage 2) steady-state running current as part of its one-time learning process. Once these 5 runs are completed, the thermostat can be set back to a normal temperature and the system can resume operation at whatever capacity is required, depending on the room temp differential.
Hope this helps. If you need further assistance after installation, please contact the technical support (help) email account at Micro-Air.
@@MicroairNet Thank you for the additional information. I saved the reply and will share and come back to the note on how to best learn the 2 stage system when the HVAC contractor installs the system.
I have been trying to recant my negative comments from 2 months ago, however the reply just never appears so I am attempting to do just that via a NEW comment.
I owe Micro Air that because they have reached out to me in an effort to fix my situation. It turns out the problem was not theirs but as a result of my system design, my system has a "non bleed" TXV.
Micro Air has gone above and beyond any normal customer support group. I had a very knowledgebal tech support gentleman named Roger, he did a lot to help fix the problem but when it oersisted he got their design engineer involved. Matteo Giovanetti worked tiredlessly to resolve my problem, he even volunteered to come to my house and change out the TXV!!!!!!
Eventually he came up with a solution that was acceptable and workable for me.
Micro Air is a quality company and provide better customer service than any company I have ever done business.
Do not be afraid to do business with Micro Air!!!!!
Roy Agrusa
*Roy: Only 226 Comments here and your old one was easily located. Just delete it. End effect is it worked out well and you learned something about different TXVs, the good ones and the bad ones. If you expect to replace your's again, there is always more to learn. I'm partial to Parker so next time check them out. Cheers!*
I'm sold on it just ordered one. I don't like hearing my main panel buzzing and lights flickering when my 4 ton starts up. The unit is only a year old my old unit compressor shorted out I had cheap hard start kit on it for years then about 6 months before it failed, I put a CSU 5-2-1 on it. I've always wondered if that hard start kit shorted out and damaged the unit.
Great video. Watched it from the beginning to the end. But I still have a not answered question. What is going on with TXV? What about if this valve is installed in the AC? I heard that Easy start won’t be working properly in that case. Could anyone explain it to me please?
browsedeweb8834
1 year ago
Look for this guys question. The company explained the TXV issue and fix to him in detail 1 year ago.
So help me understand. This doesn't cut the operating current? It just cuts the start up draw? Right??
when I started out r22 was 53 cents a pound soft start npn Luke jumping out start and run momentarily without a start capacitor.
After watching the day before about this video on CZcams with Matteo Giovanetti. I said to myself I'm gonna wait until Brian of Kalos had to comment about this product and there you are the next day later lol.. Anyways I just purchased the product for my 3 ton unit heat pump :) and what up with that paying this much no free shipping :( .
If a hard-start is "good" for an old compressor, how about the Micro-Air; does it also give you the same benefit of extending the life?
A hard start isn't really good for a compressor. It's a bandaid for tired compressors.
A soft start is actually beneficial to compressor life. But it isn't a miracle device and for best benefit you really should have one from new.
loved my easy start 364 for my camper however it only lasted 3 seasons and its dead, so i had to pull it out and reconnect everything back to factory, hope that's not the expected life span. a bit reluctant so spend another $300 for a new one
2 questions... Can you install a hard or soft start for your air conditioner that has a furnace with dual speed furnace? I have a 14 year old carrier air conditioner that's been maintained every year, would you put a hard or soft start if I'm available to install one?
Interesting. I had a large sailboat with 3 CruiseAir units, and 50Amp Shore Power. I would on occasion trip the main breaker. I can see where the Soft start would eliminate this.
As a tech, and a home owner in South Florida. I'm in like flin, I want it for personal use
Do you also have to add a surge protector for the A/C with these electronics?
The subject of heat pumps was not discussed. Are the start characteristics of a compressor different in heat mode? I will look at there web site for answers. I have 175 feet of wire between the transformer and the meter. The compressor start will always dim the lights it is slight but not a problem. For me and a lot of other people it would be worth the price to eliminate that.
This particular area of engineered motor/compressor starting is of great interest to me and is a great contribution to mankind as I think you would agree, this method of moving heat, in my opinion, is right there with the toilet and modern plumbing/wastewater treatment as the most important technologies developed for all of humanity.
I am commenting to inquire if you have heard of or looked into a type of motor designed and developed by a man named Joseph Newman and garnered national attention in the late1970's into the 1980's. This brushed motor's fundamental principle is running with a very, very low current draw.....with a significantly higher supply voltage, and two extremely massive windings with powerful magnets rotating on the shaft within the windings. A circuit is designed such that the very strong EMF created with every revolution is then instananeously collapsed with every revolution via the brushes with a timed short on the commutator, and is collected into a cushioned battery bank which in turn contributes to the supply power.
The mechanical energy generated via the shaft is directly related to the mass of the windings and magnets, and a flywheel is utilized. To genrate enough torque to do any useful work, such as being coupled to a alternator/generator or a pump/compressoir via a transmissive gear box (depending on desired input RPM's and torque), the windings end up being massive, and in its entirety (bigger windings....bigger magnets......bigger shaft......the motors mass simply makes it impractical or severely limits its applications.
Newman battled the U.S. Patent Office for nearly two decades. But his motor was backed by several Electrical Engineers (including one that worked for the State of Mississippi, in addition to the Special Master assigned to his patent court case, who was then ignored by the Judge, and shut down by his superior), Physicists, at one point two MIT professors, and NASA stayed neutral or did not publicly comment after Mr. Newman delivered a presentation and demonstration at JPL.
Finally NIST agreed to test it, but we all now know following its report on 7 World Trade, that any and all data in any NIST conclusion and report, past, present and future, is no longer credible until such a time that NIST publicly acknowledges their complicity, whether forced or otherwise, regarding their immoral, unethical, and criminal actions whilst fabricating, altering and ommitting crucial facts and data its report of 7 World Trade, and in doing such, provided direct assistance to a foreign government (Israel), the Bush Administration, The Project for a New American Century, and all of the other planners and perpetrators of 9/11 in covering up what really happened that day. What becomes most troubling is that as time continues to accrue from that day, it has only become ever increasingly obvious what did happen that day.
I regress.....NIST.....nearly two years after receiving the motor to be tested reported that it did not perform as Mr. Newmans claims. Newman argued that the proper operational proceedures of the motor were not adhered to by NIST, due to them connecting the motor to the Earth (they grounded it and it's design specified that it be floating).
Newman eventually secumbed to dimentia, and dismantled his largest prototype built before he passed. It is questionable as to why not one of the capable, technically educated and trained engineers that joined him and worked sise by side with him for years could not recreate or rebuild a working unit. There have been a few knowledgable guys on CZcams that have explored his motor design and fewer that did the same and actually had the time and resources to build actual working prototypes of his motor. The guys worth checking out are "Patrick Watkins - Director" and "JL Naudin Labs". However I do not know if the latter has an active CZcams Channel, but his original website related to this motor is still up and online and locatable via a web search.
What drives this comment is that I think software integration into circuit design whether it be on the supply side.....discovering-identifying-allocating-inverting-switching-balancing-prioritizing or what have you, the two input power sources; and more importantly, driving the motor's timed commutator with a much higher level of precision to get the ideal EMF backpulse waveform to maximize efficiency but yet not destroy the battery bank, will prove to be the most challanging, and the most important improvement to a relatively new, but old motor design that in my opinion, should be explored further by electrical engineers that are willing to work outside of the box a little bit. There is something to this. This electrical phenomenon of EMF backpulse and field collapse in combination with the operational theory of motors supplied with extraordinarilly high voltages, that operate drawing relative to the input voltage what would be considered nano-scale currents is where we find efficiency, at least in the operation......building them and the mass that comes with, not so much. Fascinating stuff. And I am ordering an EasyStart right now.
Three questions: First, do easy starts apply to the smaller variable speed mini-splits? Second, do scroll compressors benefit as much as reciprocating compressors? Last, would an Easy Start conflict with an existing compressor restart delay device or should the existing device be removed if an Easy Start is installed? Specifically this would apply to my 14-year-old but still very efficient 4-ton Freus evaporative condensed A/C condenser. Last time I measured run amps it was 12.1A at 100+F but it does dim our lights on start even with a 200A service.
You don't need and in most cases can't add an external soft start to variable speed minisplits or split compressers. Most variable speed systems will have soft start integrated into their controls.
Scroll compressors do get as much benefit as recips. The motor driving the compressor is the same technology.
In most cases delay systems can be left. If you added an extra one that isn't part of your system I'd remove it. But either way the delay start timers will just run concurrently. Mine has one and works fine. The only risk is if your Freus system monitors the compressor power draw to be sure it starts. But very few systems do.
I bet your system draws about 35 amps starting now.
Would there be any benefit to adding a electronic relay? Have you considered adding Runtime to the app?
This device could be the relay. Just add a command wire, a cpu input level translator, and a block of code.
@MicroAir
July 22-2023 I just installed two of them on both my Ac units. Start up amps were 79. These soft starts drop them down to 22 start up amps. They work great. And my 26kw home generac will have no issues what so ever. I need one for my well pump?
*Why not? As long as motor LRA is within the SS's lower and upper ampacity spec limits am sure your Generac will appreciate it and pump motor will also. Cheers!*
Things that should be discussed, and mechanical shock to the evaporator coil.
I just installed the 368 Bluetooth unit.. But haven’t wired it In yet because my Lenox CX21 3 ton unit has a comfort, alert, diagnostic key module wired between the relay and capacitor & compressor. Looking for help.. please! Should it be wired before or after that comfort alert, diagnostic module?
Great cast, awesome little product. It seems very similar to the IntelliStart used by waterfurnace years ago. Is it the same basic concept?
Yes, the IntelliStart is the branded version of the Hyper Engineering SureStart. Waterfurnace bought out Hyper in Australia a few years ago. EasyStart has continued to evolve for the past 12 years and its performance, compressor protection features, and its Bluetooth all make it superior to IntelliStart. And the best part is it costs less in many cases.
@@MicroairNet Very cool, thanks for the reply Matteo!
Since micro-air unit is solid state, how fault tolerant is it? I live on beachside in Florida. We have allot of power issues, power sags, and lighting power spikes. Utility issues with reclosers and lighting protection cause lots of issues.
How long do these typically stay unavailable on Amazon? I am waiting on one for my 4-ton
Great discussion! I installed the EasyStart 368 on my 4-ton Lennox elite condensing unit, but I didn't see the big inrush reduction that other people see. The good thing is that my lights don't flicker when the unit starts uo, but I can't start my unit with my Honda EU7000is generator. When I questioned a Micro-Air person about the less than expected inrush reduction, he said that it doesn't work as well on systems which use a TXV. I would have liked Matteo to discuss the limitations when using with TXVs and why this is the case. Are you aware of this?
Hi and thanks for your question. EasyStart works fine with systems with TXVs, but depending on the internal refrigerant design of the system and its indoor fan controller, some TXVs remained quite cold and clamped down for long periods of time after the compressor has shut down. This results in the internal refrigerant pressures not being equalized by the time the next compressor startup is initiated by the thermostat.
In order to attain the lowest possible (soft) starting amps, it is necessary that the internal refrigerant pressures be close to equalized before any start attempt occurs. This can be attained reliably and repeatedly by ensuring that the (air handler) fan runs for a minute or two after the compressor shuts down or before the compressor starts up. This is common for most modern air handlers, and it causes the TXV bulb to get warmed up a bit by the room air, thus opening up the TXV and allowing the internal refrigerant pressures to better equalize. That is the key to a successful and consistent soft start. Unfortunately, we have found that some home HVAC systems with less sophisticated air handler controllers sometimes shut down the inside fan immediately upon shutting down the compressor. In such cases, switching the fan to "ON" instead of "AUTO" on the thermostat solves the issue, but also creates the audible annoyance and air filter aging issue of a constant indoor fan.
To alleviate this for the affected customers who we recently discovered, we're now working on a change to the EasyStart firmware and apps to allow the optional application of the SCPT (short-cycle prevention timer) upon *every* startup, so that the compressor is held off from running for a few minutes while the indoor fan is running, thus allowing the TXV to heat up a little and better equalize the pressures. Note that the SCPT was deliberately designed to be "smart" and continue to countdown and expire on its own even while the EasyStart was without any AC power, thus not adding any unnecessary delay on subsequent startups that were held off by the thermostat for more than 3 minutes. Unfortunately, this sophisticated SCPT behavior doesn't help systems with relatively unsophisticated evaporator fan controllers! Thus the reason we're working on providing this selectable option.
@@MicroairNet Thank you for the very detailed and informative reply. One further question if I may...how does the EasyStart retain it's settings when an HVAC system is shut down for the winter months and do I need to be concerned with changing a battery in the future? My system is usually shut down between October and April and I sometimes get a startup error on the first run of the new season. I'm curious how long shutdowns are being handled and how they may affect the unit? Thanks!
@@browsedeweb8834The EasyStart preserves all of its settings in non-volatile memory known as EEPROM, built into its microcontroller chip. This type of memory, similar to flash memory, does not require any batteries or anything like that. It will certainly outlive all of us.
Regarding single faults that may occur upon a first season's startup, this could be due to oil or liquid refrigerant accumulation/migration that occurred during the extended shutdown, thus affecting the starting and initial running torque requirements of the compressor. If the first season's start results in any sort of overcurrent condition that causes EasyStart to fault, it will automatically recover and restart in 3 minutes.
My 4 ton r22 unit uses less than 4,300 Watts on initial start up and then ramp up peeks at about 4,600 Watts and once it's lined out it uses about 3,900 Watts. (info from my sence power monitor) On the easy start app it reports 35.1 amps and 11.5 live current.
That seems to demonstrate that the sense monitor can't properly measure inrush current.
I guess you could put a large capacitor in series with the start windings but it would probably take a lot of microfareds
Any input about the 5-2-1 starters that HVAC contractors recommend?
Hi Garth and thank you for your comment. The 5-2-1 devices are actually another brand of hard start. These we discuss at length in the video.
Currently I’m running a hard start ( just moved in two months ago and it was already there ), 4 ton unit/ and the handler is upstairs in the middle of the house. Think it would be ok to switch out to the big daddy soft start I just bought??
I just installed micro air on my 4 ton. I didn’t check the original inrush but the plate says 109. It’s 27 now, my generator handle that easily. The Bluetooth is cool but you have to be super close. I would prefer it was connected to the internet and you could view it from anywhere, like omnilogic for my pool.
Hi Gene and thank you for your business. Since EasyStart only gets powered up when your thermostat tells the compressor to run and because we wanted to keep the cost down with less components and a 4-wire connection, it did not make sense to design in Wi-Fi connectivity. Nevertheless, since you are not alone in your request, we do have our eye on perhaps a future version with a 5th wire (to support constant power) and Wi-Fi/Bluetooth connectivity like our EasyTouch RV Thermostat supports. The need to constantly monitor the EasyStart is of course less than that of a thermostat or another home device, but we will work towards this in any case.
Does it work as a surge protector as well?
Thought the Video would tell HOW it worked. Example, transistor bank lowering voltage to main winding? I get the "until the compressor starts turning" then full voltage COULD be applied. A clue this is what happens was the revelation EasyStart contains a direct to mains relay. "Technical discussion" wasn't technical enough.
I enjoyed the whole discussion. I was sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for the topic of money savings in operating cost to come up. To my surprise that was down played or stated you won't save much in operating cost. Well at my total electric home, heat and cooled by a 40 year old heat pump, in Emporia Ks., I have a demand meter. Limiting or lowering that inrush current will directly effect my demand number which is multiplied by a dollar figure, which for 6 months in the summer is higher that in the winter 6 months. On purpose, I pay attention to not turning on multiple high current drawing appliances at the same time. This saves me a bundle of money in my total electric bill!!
So, I said all that to say this, I believe the Soft Start will save me money on my electric bill due to the fact that there will be a much lower demand number!!
Any thoughts?
I watched this video after purchasing a different brand of Soft Starter for much less money. Besides defending Easy start what is your opinion about other makes?
Anyone know the brand of the scroll compressor that is more prone to reverse run?
I would like it for my RV
Would using the EasyStart along with the Emerson 49P11-843 SureSwitch contactor be an extra benefit? Or is it just redundant?
Hi and thank you for your question. The Emerson 49P11-843 SureSwitch has multiple features. It's brownout protection and short-cycle timer are redundant to what EasyStart already provides, so your presumption was correct. However, SureSwitch also offers the other electro-mechanical benefit of being a "super-duty" contactor; this feature is unique and offers additional system reliability beyond what a standard contactor can provide.
Hey a DEC Engineer - one of the them good guys, compared to marketing (Bob Palmer etc) in DEC!
4GB disk wouldn't be the RZ29 (~1997) as that was a scsi (WD/Seagate equivalent). Didnt get into Massbus peripherals only Unibus (RA80/81/90-92) then moved to RD/RF/RZ series. I had RK05 and RL02 disks at one time on VAX 11/730.
OMG. You're equally as poisoned as I am! Thanks for sharing. Yes, Massbus was a thing, but quickly died, thank goodness! Long live Bob Palmer. I was one of the RF and RZ series creators, flesh and blood.
@@MicroairNet DSSI disks were cool acted as hosts could login to them run diags, set quorum votes, like little HSC/HSJs! Poisoned I didn't work at DEC, just love the gear (lived and breathed the VAX gear) so much I bought a VAX-11/730 and 11/750 and 8300s with CI (Star Coupler, HSC-50 for my 2xRA81s) - 5 ton all up had an 8800 but didn't have 3 phase to run it up sadly! Still got a couple of VAXen 4200, MicroVax 3800s though not switched on for a while the VAX4200 has RF31 disks I think. I was a VAX|ALPHA VMS Sys admin for many a year but got into them from Uni. The good old $1 licenses DEC used to sell them....
If it learns the compressor over the first 5 starts. Would it matter if those 5 starts were on shore power vs generator?
He said in the video should be grid power for the 5 starts.
You said the worst thing that can happen to a compressor is starting and stopping due to power interruption. Isn't your 5 test learning cycle doing the samething? Is there a recommended wait period between test cycles?
Matteo / Bryan, I was doing a solar install and was going to install a soft-start on a 5ton unit, I went to install and found a hard start kit installed. I uninstalled the HSK and checked the inrush amps (w/ Fluke 378) I was getting 160amps and the name plate said 131, with a 22% increase I understand the HSK. In this case would you install the soft-start? Plmk, thanks.
I have a 15-year old, 5-ton Trane XR13 that I think has a hard-start installed. I bought this home in 2011 and this hard-start unit was already installed. Should I have concerns removing and replacing it with a soft-start on this old, tired A/C?
There should be no concern besides if you want to pay to install one.
So, I am on an electric plan called the "Peak Demand." It bills according to the highest instantaneous KW draw for the entire month at any point during the peak period times of day. For example right now the winter peaks are 6-9AM and 6-9PM M-F. They charge $0.09 per KWH across the board for usage, and then roughly $10 per KW of demand during peak times. They record my KW demand for the entire month and then multiply $10 by the KW number at whatever time I drew the highest amount of power. I have my water heater on a timer. I never do laundry, dishes, or cook during peak times. Last month my demand was 0.78 KW so I had a cheap bill. The AC is going to be critically important starting next month, and it will be starting during peak periods. I can't NOT run it. It makes sense to me that this soft starter will reduce the amount of instantaneous KW draw and save me money. I mean, it could potentially save $40-$50 a month if it cuts the startup draw from 7KW to 2.5KW. It would pay for itself in 10 months of use.
Am I right? It's a big purchase and I'm anxious. 😸