This is one of the most down to earth explanations I've seen, thanks. I just ordered the xDuoo XA-10 DAC, which has a 4 pin XLR output, and now I'm curious about balanced headphones. I picked that one mainly because it has all the inputs I need so I can leave everything plugged in and just select which input I want, and very few DAC\AMPs have both digital and analogue inputs. Anyway, I was doing some searching and it's hard to find headphones that are balanced out of the box. I haven't found any group comparisons or review roundups focusing on them, so I take it it's a fairly new thing. At least now I have a better understanding of what to look out for if I decide to buy balanced headphones in future.
I've been getting into this area and have entry level dacs and amps, but i got one that had a balanced 4.4 so i got some cables for some of my headphones (hifiman and sennheiser and many diff IEMs) and enjoy not only the larger connector, as i've issues with 3.5mm and 2.5 bal i just don't understand as it's so small. I guess for IEM's i get the tiny connector but even for my IEM's i went the 4.4 route just for the sturdy connector and it feels sturdy in the ports more like a 6.35mm or closer atleast. I really liked it and it sounded a bit cleaner and louder so i decided i wanted to get a bit better amp and dac of the balanced side and started seeing how rare 4.4 seems to be unless u go into higher figures. THe XLR is everywhere in the FULL balanced , but i have no interest of going into that whole ball game at this time and it started getting very confusing. THis helped me understand so much better (simpler) than the shiitstorm of the internet and you didn't throw any voltage BS into it or circuit diagrams. THanks.
You can get a balanced setup relatively cheaply. I have a iFi Zen DAC which feeds some HD599 that are balanced and some Behringer speakers that are balanced too. Total cost is under 500 quid with cables.
great video thanks. correct me if im wrong but you should be able to mod any headphone to take a balanced cable. just unsolder both drivers, drill a hole into each cup, screw a mini xlr connector into each hole, solder each mini xlr connector the the respective driver, put the headphone back together again :D
So is there a difference between unbalanced and balanced if the playback volume is matched? I understand more power is good... But if you have enough head room with a unbalanced amplifier, what's the point? Some people say crosstalk gets lowered but I'm wondering if they are confused with a balanced DAC that has common noise rejection... Thanks!
That has got to be the best explanation of Balanced vs Single Ended that I've ever heard. I recently swapped my Schiit Asgard 3 for a Jotunheim 2 and went Balanced for both my Focal Clear MG and Radiance. The Jotunheim sounds noticeably better on either Balanced or SE, but Balanced being double the signal obviously does make it a lot louder and on paper Balanced is superior and it's only drawbacks are it'll likely require a new headphone cable (headphones with a fixed cable don't work in balanced without a mod), it'll only work on an Amplifier and DAC that support it.
Can run a headphone amp with your id 14 mkii through a TS to RCA cable? is TRS to xlr better? what if my amp has only unbalanced rca inputs? how to connect that to my id 14?
So breaking it down electrically, in a balanced signal to a speaker the induction is not from one wire to ground but through the full circuit which means the potential velocity of the driver's magnet is greater. As in you'd be closer to being able to hear what a square wave really sounds like with a balanced headphone than an unbalanced one?
I think that’s a good perspective on it! Additionally the dual power amp sections working in bridged mode allow for a much higher power delivery at the same impedance, so benefits all round
Does it make sense “to balance” inexpensive IEMs like Shure 245, with a 2.5mm or 4.4mm jack (trrs) headphone DAC/amplifier? Or differences would be negligible for such simple headphones?
Good question, and I don’t know. It’s always a balance (no pun intended) of cost vs performance. When the headphones are the weakest link, I don’t think a higher quality headphone amp would provide a significant benefit- for me it’s always about improving the weakest link in the chain. And IEMs typically don’t have great frequency response because of the size compromise
So it gets lauder and everything else is snakeoil? i got a jds elements and want to get the hd650 but wasnt sure about upgrade cables. Dont think i need them then. Thx
No it’s not snake oil, but it’s hard to explain in terms of better drive efficiency resulting in faster slew rates, higher power handling before high THD distortion means clearer signal and so it’s a decent upgrade I think- it’s not just about “upgrading the cables”
About balanced interconnects, I am all for it. Although old good Cinchs do most of the jobs, for ling lines, balanced cable clearly has the advantage. Having said that, balanced headphone, driving is a pure audiobabble BS. Headphones are a low impedance load, cables are short, power (meaning current) is miniscule. Driving headphones is absolutely not considered to pose any kind of problem AT ALL with any of the existing technologies. Bridging an amplifier to drive them, well go, dig yourself anyway you want if it does you any pleasure. Go try it.. I think it is a pure fashion thing. Another fashion thing that is widely accepted now is the infamous and ubiquitous 1/8" jack, it is simply mechanically unreliable. 1/4" jacks are, tio my knowledge, great. As for the review, thank you, this is well done. :D
P.S. No signal is flipped at the receiving end of the balaned connected equipment. Signal through both, hot and cold lead, relative to shield, (or gnd) are reversed. When the receiving differential input gets the signal, noise gets naturally rejected, that is simply how the differential input works. Nothing gets flipped. I still believe that the main reason for not introducing balanced interconnects is just the price of XLR connectors. They are great, and have a mechanical safety pin, but are a bit overdone and too massive. 1/8" TRS`s are, on the other hand, terrible. I cringe terribly just thinking of them. Brrrrrr....
Mage Prometheus Likely none, because standard headphones aren't using remotely enough power to get to the point where the size of the wire can't handle the impedance.
So, "balanced" headphone are not actually balanced for common mode rejection as in where real balanced units do get rid of noise with common mode rejection. It's laughable to start with because common mode rejection only works if the signal is getting amplified after the fact. Headphones are the last link and already past the amplified signal. It's far too late to start using balanced circuitry after the amp. If these 4 pin XLR cables are simply bridging the amp, is that really going to improve sound quality? I'm not a headphone guy, but with speakers amps always sound better when not bridged. People bridge amps to party, not for sound quality.
Thank you. That was the clearest, most honest and descriptive explanation that I have heard.
Great job.
You know you are audiophile when you reach these videos 😂
Just stumbled upon your channel and I'm already loving it, thank you! ☀️
This is the clearest, in laments terms, explanation I've ever heard. Thank you.
Very helpful and informative. Thank you!
Great video and awesome spot-on explanation, thanks mate👍
Really interesting the way cables cancel out noise, great explanation. Thanks!
Thank you mate a friend of mine and i where just discussing this and you clarified a lot we are satisfied
You explained matters very clearly, thanks, and without a hint of trying to sell something
Fantastic explanation of something that's always been a mystery to me. thank you!
Thanks for the explanation!
Thanks for your explaination,good video, you are excellent!
Brilliantly explained.
Mate, I even understood this video and I'm as high as a kite. Cheers bro.
Is your avatar Iron Monkey?
Yes sir it is indeed. I am also mates with Dean Berry!
@@HamBone123456789ten
Finally I understood it.
Thank you.
This is one of the most down to earth explanations I've seen, thanks. I just ordered the xDuoo XA-10 DAC, which has a 4 pin XLR output, and now I'm curious about balanced headphones. I picked that one mainly because it has all the inputs I need so I can leave everything plugged in and just select which input I want, and very few DAC\AMPs have both digital and analogue inputs. Anyway, I was doing some searching and it's hard to find headphones that are balanced out of the box. I haven't found any group comparisons or review roundups focusing on them, so I take it it's a fairly new thing. At least now I have a better understanding of what to look out for if I decide to buy balanced headphones in future.
At minimum balanced has more power so I use it whenever possible. I can hear the difference with IEMs.
Seriously Impressive Stuff !!
I've been getting into this area and have entry level dacs and amps, but i got one that had a balanced 4.4 so i got some cables for some of my headphones (hifiman and sennheiser and many diff IEMs) and enjoy not only the larger connector, as i've issues with 3.5mm and 2.5 bal i just don't understand as it's so small. I guess for IEM's i get the tiny connector but even for my IEM's i went the 4.4 route just for the sturdy connector and it feels sturdy in the ports more like a 6.35mm or closer atleast. I really liked it and it sounded a bit cleaner and louder so i decided i wanted to get a bit better amp and dac of the balanced side and started seeing how rare 4.4 seems to be unless u go into higher figures. THe XLR is everywhere in the FULL balanced , but i have no interest of going into that whole ball game at this time and it started getting very confusing. THis helped me understand so much better (simpler) than the shiitstorm of the internet and you didn't throw any voltage BS into it or circuit diagrams. THanks.
You can get a balanced setup relatively cheaply. I have a iFi Zen DAC which feeds some HD599 that are balanced and some Behringer speakers that are balanced too. Total cost is under 500 quid with cables.
great video thanks. correct me if im wrong but you should be able to mod any headphone to take a balanced cable. just unsolder both drivers, drill a hole into each cup, screw a mini xlr connector into each hole, solder each mini xlr connector the the respective driver, put the headphone back together again :D
So is there a difference between unbalanced and balanced if the playback volume is matched?
I understand more power is good... But if you have enough head room with a unbalanced amplifier, what's the point?
Some people say crosstalk gets lowered but I'm wondering if they are confused with a balanced DAC that has common noise rejection...
Thanks!
That has got to be the best explanation of Balanced vs Single Ended that I've ever heard. I recently swapped my Schiit Asgard 3 for a Jotunheim 2 and went Balanced for both my Focal Clear MG and Radiance. The Jotunheim sounds noticeably better on either Balanced or SE, but Balanced being double the signal obviously does make it a lot louder and on paper Balanced is superior and it's only drawbacks are it'll likely require a new headphone cable (headphones with a fixed cable don't work in balanced without a mod), it'll only work on an Amplifier and DAC that support it.
Can run a headphone amp with your id 14 mkii through a TS to RCA cable?
is TRS to xlr better?
what if my amp has only unbalanced rca inputs? how to connect that to my id 14?
So breaking it down electrically, in a balanced signal to a speaker the induction is not from one wire to ground but through the full circuit which means the potential velocity of the driver's magnet is greater. As in you'd be closer to being able to hear what a square wave really sounds like with a balanced headphone than an unbalanced one?
I think that’s a good perspective on it! Additionally the dual power amp sections working in bridged mode allow for a much higher power delivery at the same impedance, so benefits all round
Good video.
What cables are those? Please 🥺
Does it make sense “to balance” inexpensive IEMs like Shure 245, with a 2.5mm or 4.4mm jack (trrs) headphone DAC/amplifier? Or differences would be negligible for such simple headphones?
Good question, and I don’t know. It’s always a balance (no pun intended) of cost vs performance. When the headphones are the weakest link, I don’t think a higher quality headphone amp would provide a significant benefit- for me it’s always about improving the weakest link in the chain. And IEMs typically don’t have great frequency response because of the size compromise
"Hey, what does it sound like?"
"It sounds like Schitt!"
*Schiit.
So it gets lauder and everything else is snakeoil? i got a jds elements and want to get the hd650 but wasnt sure about upgrade cables. Dont think i need them then. Thx
No it’s not snake oil, but it’s hard to explain in terms of better drive efficiency resulting in faster slew rates, higher power handling before high THD distortion means clearer signal and so it’s a decent upgrade I think- it’s not just about “upgrading the cables”
Seem great!
About balanced interconnects, I am all for it. Although old good Cinchs do most of the jobs, for ling lines, balanced cable clearly has the advantage.
Having said that, balanced headphone, driving is a pure audiobabble BS. Headphones are a low impedance load, cables are short, power (meaning current) is miniscule. Driving headphones is absolutely not considered to pose any kind of problem AT ALL with any of the existing technologies. Bridging an amplifier to drive them, well go, dig yourself anyway you want if it does you any pleasure. Go try it..
I think it is a pure fashion thing.
Another fashion thing that is widely accepted now is the infamous and ubiquitous 1/8" jack, it is simply mechanically unreliable. 1/4" jacks are, tio my knowledge, great.
As for the review, thank you, this is well done. :D
P.S.
No signal is flipped at the receiving end of the balaned connected equipment. Signal through both, hot and cold lead, relative to shield, (or gnd) are reversed. When the receiving differential input gets the signal, noise gets naturally rejected, that is simply how the differential input works. Nothing gets flipped.
I still believe that the main reason for not introducing balanced interconnects is just the price of XLR connectors. They are great, and have a mechanical safety pin, but are a bit overdone and too massive.
1/8" TRS`s are, on the other hand, terrible. I cringe terribly just thinking of them.
Brrrrrr....
On standard headphones, I wonder how much cross-talk is caused by the voltage drop across the common wire. Anyway, great video.
Mage Prometheus Likely none, because standard headphones aren't using remotely enough power to get to the point where the size of the wire can't handle the impedance.
@@gordthor5351 Thanks.
So it's just the cable? (what turns headphones from unbalanced to balanced?)
Absolutely not, it’s just physically impossible to send a balanced headphone signal without 4 separate wires
@@adamsteelproducer So what's an example of a well-known well-reviewed balanced headphone? I was getting ready to swap cables for my Senn hd600
@@laika25 You can make your HD600 balanced by replacing the cable and using a amp that has balanced outputs.
@@zaprodk Thanks
🤔
So, "balanced" headphone are not actually balanced for common mode rejection as in where real balanced units do get rid of noise with common mode rejection. It's laughable to start with because common mode rejection only works if the signal is getting amplified after the fact. Headphones are the last link and already past the amplified signal. It's far too late to start using balanced circuitry after the amp. If these 4 pin XLR cables are simply bridging the amp, is that really going to improve sound quality? I'm not a headphone guy, but with speakers amps always sound better when not bridged. People bridge amps to party, not for sound quality.
Doesn't a balanced single speaker take 3 wires? I'm calling BS on balanced.
No balanced power is different from balanced line transmission. That’s what this video is all about. Same name, different things entirely
Bal is better Simple bro!. peace!
Balanced headphones equals crossover distortion. Stick to unbalanced!
Where did you come up with that logic?
When Ive used Balanced cables on headphones and the 1/2 dozens iems it is clearly a cleaner signal of zero distortion with more power!