**SOO EMOTIONAL!!** The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - FIRST TIME WATCHING (Part 2)
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
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the end to a saga 🥹always so emotional BUUUUT i’ll see y’all next week for the hobbit. so exciting!!!!
Ugh, keep the high of LOTR and don’t spoil it with The Hobbit. IMO of course. :)
@@petergoss821 Lo hobbit è fantastico
Just so you know.. in the book, it is explained that striking/killing a nazgul is a deadly shock to a mortal. (The moviemakers tried to show this in the pain of Merry stabbing him and the aftershock to Eowyn when she killed him.) They both went into a deep slumber (I believe it was called being under the influence of The Black Breath). .. and it was Aragorn who brought both Merry and Eowyn back (with the aid of Athelas/Kingsfoil - a special herb that you saw in the Fellowship when Frodo was stabbed and Aragorn was treating him). Aragorn's power has grown since the first movie since he has accepted the mantle of king, and it was always said on Gondorian lore that the king has the power to heal - and he did.
Don't care too much about the Hobbit movies but if y'all wanna give the Tolkien biopic a look, I'd be into that.
You wont see me for your Hobbit reactions. Really awful movies. Not kidding. Ill never watch them again.
That conversation between Gandalf and Pippin IS hopeful, dear lady. "All Will Turn to Silver Glass" is what is inscribed on my wife's headstone and it is hope that I have in my heart that I will meet her on those shores when my time comes and the veil parts before me.
So sorry for your loss. I hope you will meet her again across the seas.
She is awaiting you on the shores of the gray havens. You will see her again my friend
@@TheTideKing004 but not yet…not yet
You're a good man, Charlie Brown. @Dallas
Many people miss the mark on the deep philosophical themes of Tolkien.
Tolkien participated in WWI and lived through WWII. His depiction of people going through impossible trials, surviving, and then not being whole when they return to "normal" life is something that is sorely lacking in todays modern stories. So many soldiers return from war never being able to fully integrate back into society because of the trauma. One of the best quotes I heard a while ago: "To live through war and then not be able to survive life, that's the true tragedy"
There's so many elements that pop up only in veterans' works. The fields of the dead. People carrying each other through danger. The terror of enemies you can't fight back against.
I don't know if you can write something as profound as The Lord of the Rings without having experienced something as awful as WWI.
Many of Tolkien's own memories of fighting in the trenches of France were worked into this story, including seeing flying body parts as munitions were set off, and seeing bodies of men and beasts in bomb craters filled with rain water.
@@samuelmcculloch4442 The dead marshes. People carrying each other through danger. The terror of enemies you can't fight back against. The Black breath of the Nazgul.
There's definitely a parallel with Robert Jordan, author of the Wheel of Time, who fought in the Vietnam war.
tolkien he barely had any fight and did not want to join was forced in 15 july 1915 and during the war was bored, had the time to write poetry he couldn't fight and was declared incapable he returned to england in 8 november 1916 so take it easy he was no hero and had harsh words for the men who want to fight both wars for freedom and justice just because he writed amazing books donesn't mean h7is was the best amazing person around its all in his biografy g4ive it a read before speaking nonsense about His depiction of people going through impossible trials, surviving, and then not being whole when they return to "normal" life g4o kiss arses elsewhere
If you pay attention to Frodo's facial expressions during the ending parts, you can see that he feels enormous guilt over trying to keep the Ring. He feels like he doesn't deserve peace and happiness because he almost doomed the world. Combined with the stab wound from the Morgul blade, he will never know peace in Middle Earth. That's why he leaves to go to the Undying Lands, a mythical, heaven-on-earth place where he can be at peace due to the magic of the place. All ring bearers are afforded a place in the Undying lands, which is why Bilbo was allowed to go as well.
Sam goes home and has 13 children, one of which he names Frodo. He becomes mayor of Hobbiton for most of his life and fills out the appendixes of the Red Book (the book Bilbo and Frodo wrote). Pippin becomes the Thain of the Shire, the military protector of the Shire. Merry becomes Master of Buckland, the part of the Shire his family is from. Eventually they both give up their titles and head back to Rohan and Gondor to visit, where they die. Such honor they are given that when Aragorn (King Elessar is his royal name) finally dies, they are entombed beside him for eternity.
Sam, having technically bore the Ring for a short period, leaves the Shire after Rosie dies, and takes a last ship to the Undying lands to be with his friend until the end.
Gimli takes the three hairs of Galadriel, puts them in a gemstone, and makes it the heirloom of his line, a last symbol of the friendship between Dwarves and Elves. In his elderly days, Legolas and him depart for the Undying lands, making him the only Dwarf ever afforded the honor of going there.
Solid summary of the parts after the film.
You can even see the color return to his cheeks and lips when he gets on the ship. It's a brilliant detail.
Guilt, yes, and the wound of the Morgul blade, but he also had been irreparably damaged by his long exposure to the ring. For almost a year, he carried the the most evil talisman in the world, a ring that grew in strength as it got closer to Mount Doom.
maybe one should also note that the living in the „undying lands“ does not make one immortal. the name stems from the immortals living there. Everyone except Legolas will eventually die there, but the magic there will cure Frodo‘s suffering.
And Legolas didn't take a ship with other elves. He waited for Gimli to be ready then *built* a ship.
I think the fact that, upon first seeing the ring, Smeagol immediately murders his cousin is very much an indication of who he actually was as a person. He used the rings invisibility to steal, to spy on people and other awful acts. Smeagol was always just as bad as Gollum.
No, I think that it corrupted him that quickly. I do think that Smeagol and Deagol were just bros having a great time and they liked each other. But the corruption of the ring took both of them extremely quickly. Deagol was aggressive about it from the get-go too.
@@etowngftddummy I disagree. Free will plays a role with everyone who comes into contact with the Ring. In the books, you never see Aragorn, Legolas or Gimli tempted by it. Bilbo refuses to kill Gollum while wearing it, even though Gollum is blocking his path to freedom. Gandalf and Galadriel are both offered the Ring by Frodo, and both refuse it. Sam actually wore it, and, although tempted by it, willingly gave it back to Frodo. Smeagol's murder of Deagol was an act of free will, even though the Ring was influencing him at the time. Smeagol's murder of Deagol cannot be ignored. I am left wondering that, if not for the murder, perhaps Deagol would have become the possessor of the Ring; how would he have reacted to it?
Deagol strangled first
@@PiraticalBob
I feel like Jackson's Ring is more powerful than Tolkien's, that's part of the reason he cut Tom Bombadil. And one thing with Smeagol is he's actually the most resistant to the Ring: he seems to have desired owning it far more than using it, and he _never_ accepted it belonged to Sauron.
In the books and film you could enterperate it that the fishing spot Smeagel adn his cousin go to is a regular spot of theirs. It stayed hiden for years but sensed it's masters return was soon and slowly started influencing them over numerous visits until it wsa ready to be found by them. It knew they would then fight over it, thus prooving which was strongest to carry it until it found it's next host, Bilbo.
I'll never not mention this on a ROTK reaction, when Aragorn says "For Frodo." and charges at the Black Gate, there's an elvish choir singing in the background. When translated they're singing "If by my life or death I can protect you I will. You have my sword." which is what he told Frodo at the Council of Elrond.
I did not know this; thank you.
btw the "you have my xy" line is a movie only thing. In the book the council is a bit different
"For Frodo" but why also "for Sam"? 😡😡
@@laurapastorino3751 Frodo is the one that was chosen by Eru Illuvatar to be the one to bear the burden of evil. Galadriel even says Frodo is the only one that can find the way. He ended up failing but it is by the intervention of Eru, that Gollum was there to take it and fall. Sam helped get him there, but ultimately everything depended on Frodo's sacrifice. Sam is one of the many heroes (the Main hero, but not the only) to help Frodo. It is very similar to Christ being the sacrificial victim who bears the sins of the world to his death. He is even helped by Simon of Cyrene when he fell on the way and needed help to carry it the cross. So everyone, including Samwise the Brave and faithful, recognized Frodo as the salvation the world needed and depended on. Frodo and Sam would not have gotten far without the rest of the fellowship either. They all needed to do their part.
This is a good fact! Love it
There is a lot of symbolism behind Aragorn being a healer, in the books we see that he didn't only tend to Eowyn, but also Faramir, and Merry, and many others that were hurt as well. There is a point made in the book of "The hands of the King are the hands of a Healer."
Which is also proof he is the real King.
He used a LOT of Kingsfoil😂 I feel like this should’ve been better knowledge in the world how good it was
I think a lot of people miss the fact that Frodo has so much empathy for Smeagol because he believes that there's a pathway back from where the ring took him. Frodo has to believe that there's a way back because if there isn't for Smeagol then there might not be for Frodo either.
A lot of people also miss the fact that Book Frodo is never manipulated or fooled by Gollum. He always knows exactly what Gollum is, and yet still decides to show him mercy. Although I do love the films, I will always be sad at how they portray Frodo as weaker than he is in the book. A missed opportunity.
I heard that in the scene that had Gandalf bring the eagles to pick up Frodo and Sam. Peter had an extra eagle with them to pick up Smeagol also. Gandalf wouldn't have known what happened at the end.
Also, the last real conversation between Frodo and Gandalf was about pity. Compassion. Life and Death. Judgement.
_All about the creature, Gollum_
Gandalf ( from Frodo's perspective ) was not only talk, but lived and died his last words to his hobbit friend. He sacrifices himself to the Balrog to save the rest of the Fellowship.
I doubt Frodo forgot that.
The third eagle for Sméagol is a theory, but not stated in the books
yes, everyone please read tolkien's 246 letter
Andy Serkis should have won an Academy Award for his portrayal of Smeagol/Gollum. Hearing him do the voices alone was epic but the motion capture with the various faces and movements are one of the best acting jobs I have ever seen. He bows to no one!
He got an Oscar for his performance in The Two Towers! The trilogy racked up a fair number of awards, especially Return of the King.
@@emilyrln Andy Serkis did not win an Oscar for his role of Gollum in The Lord of the Rings films because he was not nominated. The only actor nominated in the trilogy's cast was Sir Ian McKellan for his supporting role as Gandalf.
@@beaux2585 my bad, I'm misremembering. He won an MTV award for Gollum. That speech has never left my mind 😂
With Smeagol, it really kinda *was* him. The Ring draws out whatever darkness is already in a person or twists the good to evil ends. Smeagol saying, "The Precious made us do it" is like saying "it's not my fault, it's the alcohol" as a defense for drunk driving. It's still a *choice.*
Oh, and in the book, Tolkien wrote that proposing to Rosy Cotton was the bravest thing Sam ever did.
Moreover he said "Smeagol lied" and not "Gollum lied". Small, but subtle indication.
Any good in Smeagol died long ago
@@delko-c6m Yes, quite right. And, as Ivan Ribeiro said, Smeagol wasn't a good hobbit to begin with. As I recall, he tended to play nasty pranks and the like.
@@brigidtheirish I think that's the intended storytelling yeah. Two Towers we learn that within Gollum is still the person Smeagol, with real emotions and complexity. But with the intro to Return of the King we immediately see that sweet lovely Smeagol is the one that immediately murders his friend to claim the ring. The twist that neither Gollum or Smeagol are good.
Yeah, Sméagol was not a good river hobbit. When he went home that day and said Deagol was missing, everyone kinda knew or had no trouble assuming that he did something to him. So how good of a person could you be when people automatically assume you murdered someone?
I swear, I've seen this movie over 50 times, and whenever I hear those horns, that signal the arrival of the Rohan army, followed by Theoden's speech, it always fills me with such emotion I cannot place, absolutely gutwrenchingly beautiful and moving. Tolkien will always be number 1 for me, such brilliance in the world of fantasy, in literature, is unmatched.
“A Sword Day, A Red Day! ‘Ere the Sun Rises! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH!” Always makes me tear up 😭
Éowyn was affected by The Black Breath. The Black Breath, also known as the Black Shadow, was a serious and often fatal condition, resulting from contact with a Nazgûl.
Aragorn helped heal those wounded by the Nazgûl. ”The hands of a king are the hands of a healer”
Correct, the same thing happend to Merry and Faramir. It's a shame the 'Houses of Healing' chapter fell so short in the movies, since in the books it's a biggie to reveal the Return of the King to the people of Gondor.
On the other hand, explaining all that would have made the EE even 30mins+ longer. Some shortcuts in the storyline had to be done.
With the aid of Athelas, the herb he used to staunch Frodo's wound after Weathertop.
It also has sort of a link to human history too I think. Wasn't there that belief that kings annointed by god had the power to heal, and would therefore allow the sick to touch them on special days in the year? My impression is that this was a tradition that carried through the middle-ages and at least up until the enlightenment.
Correct, thank you.
Yes. I wish Peter Jackson would have done a better job explaining that part since it seems to confuse a lot of first time watchers.
I just want to say that although everyone (rightly) finds Denethor despicable, we need to give the actor his due (I think his name is John Noble). The way he played crazy with tiny moves and ticks of his face was really masterful. Also, the books explain that the reason he’s gone off the deep end is that he also has a Palantir, one of the “seeing stones” like Saruman had, which turned the most powerful wizard into a traitorous evil creep. The Palantir is linked to Sauron, who has been filling Denethor’s mind with images of death and destruction, causing him to despair, and ultimately go mad. He wasn’t always the Denethor we see in the film. Loved your reactions, and will be here for The Hobbit trilogy.
*tics
It wasn't so much that the Palantir was linked to Sauron; Sauron had a Palantir of his own. Probably the one that had been kept in Minas Morgul (formerly Minas Ithil).
Indeed, and actually Denethor was far stronger in will and presence of mind than Saruman, so Sauron, seeing that he could not directly corrupt him, simply showed him that all was lost and there was no way out and thus induced in him a state of dispair.
@@rollomaughfling380 Yup, my bad. I knew that!
@@francksands Not exactly stronger. Saruman was beyond any doubt greater in power, but Denethor, unlike Saruman had no desire beyond opposing Sauron as well as being rightful master of his palantir by his stewardship. That being said movies did entire Denethor's family dirty and in the books until Faramir fell he was beyond any doubt the second greatest man of his generation (Aragorn being the first).
Also I really missed Beregond from the books (FYI simple soldier of the Minas Tirith who defended Faramir from being burned by holding the doors to the tombs from any who would bring a fire to Denethor even at the cost of killing them in place where it was forbidden under pain of death).
In the book, the scene of Aragorn caring for Eowyn's supernatural injuries is how people in the city figure out he's the rightful King - "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer" is the prophecy
Her love for Gollum reminds me of a dialogue from the office
"I don’t care if Ryan murdered his entire family, he is like a son to me" 😂
I think it’s because many people want to see him have a redemption arc. I get it.
@@angelaroberts3563 Yeah, you are right.
Domi's take on Smeagol still freaks me out. Since blaming the ring entirely doesn't fit with anything else pictured in the story. The ring accentuates what's already inside of people. Just like iseldure had a thirst for power and rule and immediately the ring fed into that and he kept it to accentuate his power. Smeagol just saw the ring (had not even touched it yet) and killed his own brother Deagol for it. This was something inherent in Smeagol's own character, not created by the ring. Bilbo found it, wore it and carried it for 60 or 70 years before showing any signs that it had affected him. Even when he could have killed Smeagol in the cave he had mercy on him with the ring in his pocket. Frodo carried this ring for almost a year on this horrific journey and although it wore him out and made him want to keep it, he fought it's attempt to change his basic character.
Yeah, it's too bad they weren't able to give Smeagol's history a bit more explanation. In the books he's described as always being a sneak and a horrible person, long before he ever found the ring.
I appreciate having sympathy and mercy for Smeagol in the Two Towers, but in Return of the King he's very clearly set on killing both Hobbits for the ring. He literally plots their deaths in front of Sam.
After Gollum crawled back into Smeagol's life there was no turning back. Any hope for Smeagol died at the end of the two towers.
@@unknown_user8449 yes, The movie shows Smeagol instantly heading underground after putting on the ring, but the books say that he attempted to use it to steal spy on and hurt people until he was caught and driven from their village.
Even without that info though, the movie shows that Bilbo had the ring for 60 to 70 years and the worst thing he ever did was make a bad face when he wasn't allowed to hold the ring again.
@@west-Co_exploration to be fair, it's a *really* bad face 😂 definitely a jump scare when I saw it in theaters!
@@emilyrln a reaction which Bilbo was instantly sorry for, apologized profusely and began weeping over. Vastly different than plotting to murder the one who now possessed it. The ring did not change Bilbo's character
@Blake N we live in strange times... I see people interpreting info in the most upside down manner possible, with no ability to discern any other ideas
Eomer's cry is always very moving. And he is the one who was always very cold and calm warrior and he warns Eowyn about fear and horror of battle but he never expected to be one of those who should be taking by it.
The despair in his cry was because his sister was not even supposed to be there. And seeing her unconscious just added to that because he likely thought she was dead.
He is the one who searched in the Two Towers for his cousin's body & turned the body over to identify it. I feel that after that point any sleep he had was plagued by nightmares of looking through bodies & turning over corpses over & over until he turns over one to see the face of Theoden or Eowyn.... his only close living family. So him seeing Eowyn's body - not only does it catch him off guard because he didn't know she was in the battle but he also is seeing his PTSD nightmares become his reality.
It is, relatively, "easy", to give up your own life. It is very hard to give up the lives of your most loved ones.
I want you to know, that Elrond, lord of elves had a brother - Elros, and two of them were best siblings. And he also chose a life of a mortal, and became a ruler of human nation. He lived for 500 years, but eventually died. So for Elrond - Arwen's choice was a HUGE flashback of grief and loss, not just bcs she is his daughter.
If I remember correctly, that brother's children eventually married into the kings of numenor, which means that Arwen is Aragorn's infinite-great aunt 😂
@@penzorphallos3199 Elrond's brother Elros was the first king of Numenor, so no need to marry into it.
@@canisrufusuk well, there we go. Wincest
No wonder Elrond was like, eww wtf
@@penzorphallos3199 Still FAR less incestious than the real world European aristocracy.
@@penzorphallos3199 arwen and aragorn are actually first cousins.
I love how Eowin’s brother wanted her and the Hobbit to NOT go into battle - not because they suck at fighting, but simply for saving them of horror and misery.
Notice how unhuman scream he released of hus lungs when he saw her body on the battlefield… experienced Veteran who got used to seeing death just immediately broke down.
I love how Sam was tempted by the ring when he briefly held it. Most people feel the desire to acquire more money, power, influence. To rise yourself up above all others and Sam was similar. What Sam saw when he held the ring was himself overthrowing sauron and turning the ruined plains of gorgorath (inside mordor) into a beautiful flowering garden. Then he almost immediately shook himself free of the vision and reminded himself that he is just Sam. All he wants is a bit of garden of his own to look after, not to cover all the land in his garden. He is just one hobbit, and doesn't need the whole world
"I could be SAMWISE THE STRONG!!!"
okay that's from the 1980 cartoon but yeah
I choose to believe that if the world were full of people - or maybe just had a _small few more people_ - who lived life inspired by, and to be like, Samwise Gamgee.. well, then I think the world would have almost no more problems bigger than pests in the garden and deciding what to eat for 2nd breakfast...
I think there are a lot of different things in that moment. He always saw how Frodo suffered and he doesn't want to burden him again with it as well as the ring whispering probably strengthening that and giving him impressions of what he could be keeping it etc. similar to Gandalf who could be tempted taking the ring to do good things.
@@6666Imperator I'm talking of the scene in the book, Sam puts on the ring to hide from the orcs and sees a vision of what he could do if he used the ring
@@xqiuvmah ah okay. Tbh it has been a while since I read the 3rd book (currently on a re-read of the first one) but Samwise the strong does ring a bell
Interesting how Domi says you can't forgive everyone else for their actions under the influence of the Ring and not forgive Smeagol for his. We see how characters, like the hobbits and Aragorn, who don't want the Ring take the most effort for the Ring to gain control over. Others, like Gandalf and Galadriel, would have their desire to do good exploited by the Ring and refuse it knowingly. Denethor and his sons want the Ring to defend their people. But Smeagol never resists the Ring, nor does he have any noble impulse. The Ring easily motivates Smeagol to murder and lie and the only influence it needs over him is his sole desire to possess the Ring.
True enough. Though the extent of his backstory is never clearly stated (Gandalf briefly mentions it, though not the specifics). Gollum held the ring for 478 years! Almost half a millennia of poison and corruption. Redemption could never truly happen for him as long as the ring existed. And as the movie showed, Gollum would never allow it to be destroyed if there was a way to prevent it. Only death could release him from his obsession.
Tolkien did suggest a form of afterlife for the mortal peoples of Middle Earth(The elves are bound to the world itself and immortal until its ending, though their souls can pass if they are slain in battle or grown weary from uncounted centuries of existence. When that happens their spirits return to Valinor(?) to rest for a time before returning anew) so perhaps Smeagol's soul, freed by the ring's destruction, found its way to peace.
@@austinseven4720 Is still like it that without him the Ring would not have been destroyed.
About Gollum, even before the Ring he was not a very good person. Yes, the Ring enhanced it quite a bit, but he wasn't exactly innocent. That's why it was able to ensnare him so quickly and easily. Contrast that with Bilbo, Frodo and Sam. They, at heart, are all good people who have no willingness to dominate others, which what the Ring was made for.
Very important detail you have laid out right here!
A belated thanks for your comment. This is downside to not reading the books. In fairness, I partly blame Jackson's portrayal of the Ring. At times it did seem like it had such an influence and hold on people, for no reason at all. But in the books, freewill played out more for the characters, Gollum not least of all. Tom Bombadil was such a mystifying character for not being tempted by Ring! Then there was Sam who, in spite of Its temptations, was so self-assured and self-content with his humble place in the world that he was able to give it up freely.
The Ring is not this master manipulator. It's a tool to corrupt what's there to corrupt already. Gollum was not a good person to begin with.
In mount doom even Frodo succumbed to the corruption of the Ring and then when Gullom took the
Ring and celebrated Frodo attacks Gullom not to destroy the Ring but to get it back for himself... but ultimately the lust for the Ring engendered by the Ring led to it's destruction
So evil cannot prevail as it leads to its own downfall when resisted long enough... and Frodo achieved that and therefore did not fail
In the book it is explained that Arwen offered her place on the ship to Frodo ship so that he could live out his life free of the pain that he was never free of in Middle Earth.
Ultimately Sam, Legolas, Gimli and Shsdofax sailed to the undying lands too.
Lastly Tolkien states in a letter that the principle hero of the story is Sam while Frodo is the main protagonist. Which is one of the reasons that the story ends with Sam's words "well I'm back,"
Pippin and Merry left The Shire as troublesome young hobbits, but came back as knights of Gondor and Rohan respectively. After they died and Aragorn too they were buried with him alongside the great kings of Gondor.
Pippin's words to Merry when he finds him by the dead Oliphaunt, "No, Merry. I'm going to look after you" show the reversal of their two roles. Earlier, when Gandalf and Pippin rode off to Minas Tirith, Merry told Aragorn how the two hobbits always got into trouble and how he always got Pippin out. Now it's Pippin's turn.
It is not mentioned in the movies, but Frodo, Merry, and Pippen are cousins, on the Took side.
@@jlew13jl Tooks and Brandybucks.
@@jlew13jl I think it mentioned in the movies when they went to Pony urn to wait for Gandalf but ends up meeting Aragon and escaping from Nazgûls.
i legit believe Theoden is one of the best character. Such a great arc from despair to leading an almost hopeless charge into a massive army of orcs screaming death. "i go to my fathers in whose mighty company i shall not now feel ashamed" hats off to you king theodon
Hopefully he will be reunited with his son too.
The most awesome thing about the rohirrim charge is. Orcs have the notion that all men fear Death.. So the moment they chanted death(asthough embracing they are dead already) Made the orcs fear the humans. Instead of the other way around.. Its such an awesome detail.
In the books, it is noted that orcs fear horses..
This is the reason for their reaction to the charge
Also if that entire scene was a complete real life scenario imagine 10 thousand men (and one women) on horse back charging at probably 25, 30 miles per hour at you whilst chanting death at the top of their lungs, at this moment you accept that you are well and truly fucked.
One of the questions that often comes up after watching this great trilogy is the true nature of Sméagol/Gollum, and I hear many people considering the dilemma that Frodo posed: was there ever a chance to truly save him? I think that the possibility of redeeming Sméagol is answered for us at the entrance to Mount Doom with the "Sméagol promised!" line from Frodo, and the response from Sméagol was very simple: "Sméagol lied." While Gollum may have appeared to the reader/viewer as the more evil and cruel of the two personalities, in the end we discover that Sméagol was the one who schemed, manipulated, misled, and gloated as he broke the oath that he swore. I think the fight with himself was real to an extent, because Sméagol obviously hated who he was and what he had become because of the ring, so his devotion to Frodo for a time was genuine, but that servitude wasn't a truly virtuous act. It was perhaps best described as something that allowed him to temporarily forget his past, and put aside his suffering by serving a different master apart from the ring, which helped to rekindle a spark of humanity within him for a time. But the motivation for that short respite from centuries of pain was more selfish than altruistic, so while it was a simulacrum of humanity that was reborn, it was only surface level, and it wasn't the best quality in a human being by an means.
Whether it was "slinker" or "stinker" who was in charge (those were Sam's names for him from the book - which I quite like - depending on how Sméagol/Gollum was acting at the moment), I think neither personality was redeemable in the end. Sméagol/Gollum deserved pity, yes, but beyond that there was nothing left of him to save, unfortunately.
We could argue Smeagol was alright, until Faramir's little trick.
But at some point, they were going to reach Mount Doom. And then Smeagol would never allow the ring to be destroyed.
I think Gandalf's "he may have some part to play" line is important here. Yes, Smeagol/Gollum couldn't be redeemed, and certainly after Faramir has Frodo 'betray' him, basically cannot be good. However....
No one is truly immune to The One Ring's influence, not forever at least. It's worth considering that, were Gollum not there in Mount Doom, Frodo still would not have destroyed The Ring, and Sam surely would not push Frodo in or otherwise hurt/kill him to separate it from his friend.
In a way Smeagol was needed...there's a very intentional parallel to the moment Elrond has the same exchange with Isildur in flashback as Sam did with Frodo, "Destroy it!" "No.". Elrond is also fundamentally good-natured, and so also did not choose violence against his ally to force the Ring's destruction, and so its evil persisted. For violence is a kind of evil, but also necessary to destroy that which is worse. The Ring had taken a pretty serious hold over Frodo, and in a way that was a sort of blind spot for Sam. He would not see Frodo hurt or killed even if he became as wretched and terrible as Gollum, or even if the fate of the world depended on it.
Frodo certainly needed Sam to support him unquestioningly, to favor his wellbeing even perhaps above the Greater Good, and to pick up the pieces even after Frodo, under the Ring's influence, did wrong. But perhaps he also needed Gollum, for who else would literally bite the Ring off his finger and, in the struggle for the Ring, technically aide in its destruction. Frodo did not choose to do petty evil of his own unalloyed will but through him evil was done, and he needed an adversary who did not serve Sauron, a part only Gollum could play.
@@bumfricker2487
Did you mean "After *Faramir* has Frodo betray him?"
@@robbob5302 haha, yes of course. Can't believe I just pulled a Denethor
Billy Boyd has actually spoken about "that moment right there" at the end. He said peter had suggested multiple versions and invited the" hobbits" to also give inputs on how that scene would play. If I recall correctly it was a thing they all came to see after trying different "endings" and ended up having a moment of them just silently watching eachother, knowing that the other hobbits wouldn't understand what they went through.
@@Santi-otero In a way, its a homage to Tolkien's experience after the First World War, coming back to his quiet town with the few friends he had that made it through with him, knowing among themselves the horrors they went through while the rest of their town is more focused on the coming harvest. And them sharing the drink between those who have seen as they have the horrors of war.
@@Santi-otero Dude, Thor said he's now reading the book. Please don't spoil it for him.
@@Santi-otero nonsense. In the book they are also emotionally " destroyed" but I understand why Jackson did what he did. However, the real ending with the scouring of the Shire is much more meaningful.
@@rickardroach9075 these comments aren't shoved into his face. Let people post what they want to
@@squaaaaak3178 As far as I remember only Frodo and Sam can be seen as "changed" or "destroyed" persons at the end of the story in the books, while Pippin and Merry definitely matured and have grown into true soldiers as proven by the battle for the Shire, but still kept their lighthearted and funny persona.
The support you gave golum was both surprising and incredibly disturbing. The number of red flags, the number of lies, death threats and fighting but you held to the faith till he fell. *It's somewhat admirable but it genuinely unnerved me*
It definitely provides a unique reaction and on one hand I feel like art is open to interpretation… but on the other it’s truly baffling. 😂
Yes!
She's not alone. Smeagol has always been a favorite character and my feelings about him are the same as hers.
@@ruinsane100 So that means you support the murderous, psychopathic, mutated hobbit who all along was playing Sam and Frodo in hope to kill them?!
@@robertfrancis9877 It means I have compassion for someone who, through no fault of their own, fell victim to the ring. Gandalf also had compassion for Smeagol. As did Bilbo and Frodo.
The Ride of the Rohirrim is the most spectacular scene that I have seen in a cinema. Still gives me chills. Also, Bernard Hill is left handed but Theoden is right handed so he had to do the whole 'sword on spear' scene with the sword in his wrong hand.
Gandalf talking about how the afterlife feels with Pippin is one of the scenes that grips me the most every damn time I watch ROTK. The despair but yet hope of a beautiful life after this is so good and Ian McKellen with his expression and the weight in his tone is just phenomenal.
The fact is that death in Middle Earth is actually like that (At least for elves), your soul goes to Valinor, the Immortal lands.
Absolutely, what I think Gandalf even only said that to possibly lighten Pippins fear of death. Probably nothing he said is true in the slightest.
@@Gabriele_Oliva Elves' spirits go to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor, where they "sleep" until they are reincarnated. They are tied to the physicality of the world, and Tolkien said that when the world ends, they will, too. Only humans go to Illuvatar when they die, which is called "The Gift of Illuvatar".
@@thefiendish186 Gandalf died and came back. He's just describing what he saw while he was over there.
I love how Tolkien described Sam fighting shelob (giant spider) in the book;
No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in the savage world of beasts; where some desperate small creature armed with little teeth alone, will spring upon a tower of horn and hide that stands above its fallen mate.
The hands of the king are the hands of a healer. One way Aragorn reveals himself to be the king is that he heals people after the battle, not just Eowyn. Her encounter with the witch king was extremely traumatic.
That healing power would have been very useful, when Frodo got stabbed on Weathertop.
@@robbob5302 Eowyn wasn't stabbed by the Witch King.
@@robbob5302 IIRC, Aragorn describes Frodo's injury as being beyond his ability to heal, implying that he does indeed have some healing ability but that it is insufficient for that specific injury. It might also be that out in the wilderness, he didn't have the necessary medicinal ingredients to hand.
Eowyn and Merry, in attacking and killing the Lord of the Nazgul, were infected by the Black Breath; a power that resides in "The Nine". They were dying the moment they killed the Witch-King. And so Aragorn had to save them using athelas (kingsfoil), a weed first brought to Middle Earth by the Numenorians and in the hands of the Kingly line, a powerful restorative:
When the Black Breath blows
and death's shadow grows
and all lights pass,
come athelas! Come athelas!
Life to the dying
In the king's hand lying!
If you're going to cut Gollum some slack for being under the influence of the One Ring then you have to do the same for Saruman and Denethor. They used the Palantirs, the seeing stones and were corrupted by Sauron. Denethor as a steward was not permitted to use the stone, that is reserved only for the king (Aragorn). He was shown the destruction of the city and the death of many of his people which made him despair.
As for Saruman he hoped to claim the Ring for himself and become ruler of Middle Earth, tempted by power. By the way it wasn't the fall that killed him, it was the sudden stop.
There is an old recording of J.R.R. Tolkien himself reading the scene of the Ride of the Rohirrim. His prose is just meant to be read out aloud. Someone has put it over the footage of the film here on youtube. One of the most epic scenes I've ever heard/seen.
I love that! Everytime I watch that scene I have Tolkiens voice narrating it
Said video does exist. I saw it on TikTok the other day
This one?
czcams.com/video/LWxnHuVEwUg/video.html
czcams.com/video/LWxnHuVEwUg/video.html
You're welcome mate.
Do you have a link?
The Battle of the Pelennor field in the book is so freaking epic. They did a great job in the movie, but the book is pure poetry. In the book, Eomer finds Eowyn on the battlefield during the battle. His grief and rage were so great that the orcs of Mordor fleed in terror and Eomer and his knights slaughtered hundreds of them.
and then the arrival of the pirate ships but with the king's banner. The films are really masterpieces, but the books.. omg I get goosebumps just thinking about it
What I love about the scene in the tavern is that you have these four hobbits who just returned from the adventure of a lifetime and have wonderful stories to tell, and everyone is more interested in the giant pumpkin that the farmer brought in. He's so proud of it that he keeps polishing it with his handkerchief. It really reiterates what Bilbo said in the first scene about hobbits celebrating the simple life.
The guy with the giant pumpkin is Andy Serkis who, of course, played Gollum.
I took this a little different.
I saw it as 4 war heroes returning back to their small town, where no one has any idea what happened.
All of the hobbits continued their lives, smoking, drinking, gardening, and enjoying the simple things in life. Whereas our 4 hobbits stood face to face with death, and triumphed over it - with pain, courage, love, fear, hopelessness, etc.
They come back to the Shire, and see the familiar folk, but the 4 of them are forever changed. The simple life they once lived, they can never return to after enduring the horrors and evils of middle earth. All they can do is cheers 🍻 and move on with their life, as that’s what all the other hobbits are obliviously doing anyways.
I would also compare it more to a soldier returning home from a war like Tolkien did after WWI. How would you be able to describe the horrors you saw to anyone who wasn't there? And would you even consider or be able to speak about it?
Besides the obvious wounds and mental exhaustion Frodo experienced through the ring, I would also argue that a major reason for Frodos departure from middle earth is, that the came back to a home that wasn't longer his home nor did he fit in anymore. Exactly like soldiers coming back or prisoners, that are released from prison after years or decades. Kind of like Brooks in the Shawshank redemption. You can't turn back time and neither can you forget. You come back to a place that is exactly like it used to be, but you yourself are not the same as you were. So you can't fit in anymore and ultimately decide that you don't belong there anymore.
The actors did such a good job in the tavern scene after getting back to the shire at conveying "This isn't us anymore" without any words.
Yep.
But I am angry that they cut the scouring of the shire
Sam actually wore the ring a few times in the books, he searched for Frodo for a few days, but even when wearing the ring he didn't fall for its power, also he was lucky because Pippin had revealed himself in the Palanthir to Sauron so his eyes were on Minas Tirith, believing the ring was there
And Merry was the one to make the witch king of Angmar mortal with his dagger (it was actually a dagger, but big enough to be a shortsword for a hobbit) :)
I think one of my fondest little details in this film is that Gandalf brings three eagles along to Mount Doom. One for Frodo, one for Sam... and one to carry Smeagol were he still alive
Gandalf holds out hope for everyone. Be like Gandalf, if you can't be like Sam
Oh I never realised that. Thank you that is such good insight.
Every time I see that third eagle arriving, my heart beaks 😭
That whole moment with Sam hesitating giving the Ring to Frodo. It really hearkens back to the beginning of The Fellowship, when Gandalf encouraged Bilbo to leave the Ring for Frodo.
Gandalf knew that it was important (to Bilbo's spirit and sanity) that he give up the ring of his own free will (rather than Gandalf taking it from him).
And, knowing what we know now, it's SO impressive that, after owning the Ring for 60+ years, Bilbo was, with some effort, able to drop it and step away (of his own will).
Very emotional ending. Small fact here you might not know, Ian Holm who plays Bilbo, originally played Frodo in the BBC's radio adaption of the three books. I still have the tapes. Its a bit of legacy moment. Not sure if you knew this. It always brings a tear to see/hear him in both.
The movies didn’t do Denethor justice, however, I think it was just because it would have been too much.
Denethor is actually a strong and noble man. He secretly had one of the Palantir (stone ball that Pippin looks at) and contended with Sauron himself for many many years resisting him and holding Mordor off.
Because he has the Palantir, he can see afar and that is how he knows that Aragorn rides with Theoden.
Eventually Sauron does finally corrupt Denethor amd drives him mad, hence all his craziness that happens in the movie. I just don’t think they had time to explain that, so he just comes across as a terrible guy.
There is even a moment when he personally leads his men in the fight, but like his son Boromir, he gave into despair because he couldn’t see any hope (fed to him from Sauron, like how the ring influenced Boromir).
And that is why you should read the books, even though the movies are so good too.
Denethor and Gimli are probably the most changed characters. But while Gimli is still a badass with less seriousness and more comic relief, Denethor really got the dirty treatment. Movies are great for trying to re-tell such a complex story, but it is great to read the books and get those subtle differences too. I was lucky enough to know the books before the movies and I totally agree with you that it is great to read them, even if one has already seen the movies.
What really broke Denethor was when Faramir came back. He knew he lacked the skill to heal him, and He only saw the black fleet and not who was on the ships. As Gandalf said, Denethor remembered he loved his son, only to have that love break him.
I think the original movie trilogy is so beloved also with book readers, not because they perfectly portray the story, but because they find a delicate balance between telling the story and making it believable to a degree you can follow and enjoy both as a fan of Tolkien's universe, as well as someone just getting introduced to it. There is some things in the movies I dislike, leaving out Denethor's reasoning for madness and Saruman of many colors... it doesn't portray the story accurately. But it's also okay. These might be the only movies I truly love despite not being perfect, because they don't pretend to be. They focus on Frodo and Sam and they focus on portraying the relationship between the fellowship. I shall ignore the fact that they made Sauron a massive flaming eye in a tower lmao.
Aragorn is very different too. He was all about being king from the start. He had the sword reforged as soon as they got to rivendell and had it with him the whole journey. He was also significantly weaker in the movie, where he was basically indistinguishable from a regular man.
They kinda had to make him somewhat of a villain. It would have taken too much time to properly due him justice. They couldn't have gotten into his backstory or his battle of wills with sauron so it's like well let's make him a villain to glorify the others a little.
Seeing Galadriel pull Frodo from his confusion has always made me so happy. She knows he has the strength and can carry on. I love the look on her face when she pulls him out of his depressed sadness.
The scene with Sam not wanting to give the ring to Frodo is a condensed version of what happened in the book. For a very brief time the ring almost ensnared Sam but in the book when he had to wear it while searching for Frodo. However in the end Sam overcame it because all he wanted was home and his little garden.
If it helps to deal with Gollum's death..he would have had to be killed eventually because by the time Frodo met him Gollum was sneaking into people's houses and killing/eating babies in the books. Smeagol was never an upstanding Stoor/hobbit to begin with and no one in his village trusted him completely. Even his own mother didn't trust him completely even before he killed Deagol to get the ring.
So lovely to watch you two react to my favorite movie series! I wanted to address Eomer's reaction to finding his sister's near lifeless body on the battlefield. I've heard a lot of reactor's complain that it was over-board and made them think she was dead. The thing is, she nearly was. As other's have explained, the evil of the Witchking of Angmar, nearly killed both Eowyn and Merry, even as they defeated him. Such was his power. But think for a moment of the fear Eomer must have felt, finding his sister there. Thor mentions that he believes that Eomer knows Eowyn wanted to fight and his speech to her about "War being the province of men" was to protect her, but I'd guess it really was to protect himself. Much is said about the sad life she has led, from her parents dying and her uncle being under the influence of Saruman. Her cousin dying and her brother being banished, but it's rarely mentioned that all these things happened to Eomer as well. I imagine that his sister being alive, well and safe was the one thing he could hold onto emotionally to keep him going and drive him forward. The thing that gave him courage in battle, knowing that what he did protected her. She was his emotional safety blanket, so to speak. So here he's just been in this insane battle, watched his people be slaughtered and his uncle, his KING die and in that moment of exhaustion, no doubt going to retrieve his Uncle's body, he finds his sister, her body lifeless appearing, strewn upon the battlefield. His sister who was supposed to be safe, in Edoras. His terror and horror in that moment is so powerful. His cry so believable. I only wish the movie framed that scene a little better, so that new watchers understood how close to death she was and could feel the impact of his pain.
He thought he lost his final piece of hope for the future, leavin him all alone 😢
Aaugh that part always makes me cry! Also when Theoden says "No parent should have to bury their child" 😭
As a Smeagol fan, domi, I think you'll appreciate this: Remember in Fellowship in the Mines of Moria when Gandalf and Frodo discussed Gollum? How pity stilled Bilbo's hand? Gandalf said that he felt in his heart that Gollum had a role to play in all of this still. Now look at the scene of the eagles and Gandalf coming to the rescue. There are three eagles. The one who is carrying Gandalf picked up one of the hobbits, leaving two. Makes you wonder if Gandalf brought a third eagle in case Smeagol was with them. In the books, Frodo does make a point of saying he cannot bring himself to hate Gollum. If he hadn't attacked and taken the ring from Frodo, the wraiths would have made it and claimed the ring from Frodo. And Sauron would return. So he did end up playing a vital role.
Uhg damn it, even just hearing the horn of Rohan as the Witch King towers over Gandalf as defeat seems to be upon us….the sound pierces all the chaos. Brings a tear to my eye everytime.
_Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last._
I prefer the theatrical version, but when you hear the horns in that scene it just hits different.
@@evenmoor Thank you for posting that excerpt.
@@Thelaretus It's one of my favorite moments in the book! 😀
When Sam hesitates to give the ring back I think it isn't just because of the ring influencing him, it is because he is worried what will happen to Frodo if he has the ring again. Two characters hold the ring and willingly give it back to Frodo (and of course Bilbo who willingly lets it go in the first place): everyone remembers here when Sam does, but Boromir also does when Frodo drops it on the mountain and he picks it up. A lot of people forget that. Four have the chance to take it but do not which are Faramir, Aragorn, Gandalf, and Galadriel. Gimli is the only person to ever actually try to destroy the ring since Frodo, just like Isildur, succumbs to the ring at the last moment before casting it into the lava.
I commented on the first part regarding the scorching of the shire in the books, but I want to mention the undying lands again. Bilbo and Frodo were granted to travel there with the elves and ring bearers (Galadriel has the ring of adamant, Gandalf the ring of fire and Elrond the ring of air), but Sam is a ring bearer too and he ventures there later in life, Legolas and Gimli go travel there together. The undyling lands aren't necessarily Valinor itself where the Valar (highest gods) reside, but from the shores you can probably see Valinor itself. In the undying lands... Bilbo and Frodo aren't immortal, but they have a chance to live out their days in good health, without the burden and pains of what they went through in regards to their wounds and the anguish from the ring. As a tl;dr about the Valar, at some point they say "fuck this" in regards to middle earth and left to create themselves a little safe space really far away. Some elves, such as Galadriel for example, left on their own terms, but also ended up exiled due to some nastiness they caused. Galadriel not taking the ring from Frodo, passing that test, being the ring of adamant's only bearer, she is allowed to return to Valinor itself. She is probably the most powerful elf still alive (apart from Glorfindel I guess, the elf known for 1v1ing a Balrog like Gandalf did, but folding it lol)
There are many great quotes from the third book, but one of my favorites is Sam's temptation by the Ring.
"He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. In that hour of trial it was his love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command."
My man Sam was offered ultimate power and he was like "Nah, I just need some po-tay-toes and the homie"
The chapter about Faramir and Eowyn in the houses of healing is in my top 3 chapters in the book
I especially love how Aragorn mentions that Eowyn will die if she awakens to despair, unless a healing comes that he could not bring. She awakens to despair - but she lives, because the healing came from Faramir.
(Meaning, to me, that only "true love" could save her, and because Aragorn was promised to another he couldn't bring it - but just so lucky for her, there was somebody who loved her!)
Eowyn and Faramir it may be my favourite couple in all Tolkien mythology
Agreed. As adorable as they are in the movie, the book version is pure, unadulterated fluff (in the very best sense). And Lord knows those two earned it!
What's your favorite chapter? 😇
@@chipmunkove_verze
I'd say it varies, depending on my mood... If someone hold a gun to my head and say "Chose!" I'd probably go with "Ther riders of Rohan" when Eomer, Gimli and Legolas have that very friendly introduction :D
But...there are so many perfect chapters... Ioreth nearly driving Aragorn mad in the houses of healing when he asks for athelas is just so perfect :D
Make no mistake. Smeagol was a bad guy. He's corrupted by the Ring, but he was probably the most easily corrupted of any character in the story. Which tells me that he is a bad guy without the Ring.
Facts my son and I were discussing today.
seeing thor tear up every now and then really makes my waterworks go ballistic, shows, how much he cares and feels with these movies
"Do you not know death when you see it, old man? This is MY hour!"
I know we don't really see much from the Witch King in the grand scheme of things, but that is one of the most badass lines and deliveries from any villain ever.
In the books they explain more about the palanthir the seeing stones. Both Saruman and Denethor thought they could use theirs to see what Sauron and others were doing and that their minds were strong enough to control them But Sauron controls the other stones and through them showed Denethor what he wanted him to see, the overwhelming forces of the dark so he broke his mind. That's why Gandalf, the wise one, warns them against looking into the stones.
Sauron has all of them? So wonder if they were destroyed in the tower breaking.
@@Reblwitoutacause I don't think we ever know how many they are and where they were located. Gandalf said something along the lines of "they have not all been found" and I think there were stones at places Sauron occupied long ago that were used to communicate over long distances.
The stone Saruman was using was probably there all along as was the one at Gondor that Denethor used. Denethor was actually a powerful man with magic, like his son Faramir but like Saruman his arrogance in using the stone brought him down.
A great deal was probably lost when everything build with Sauron's power fell. There was something in the books describing that the stones only saw a certain something afterwards, like a last impression of someone. So could no longer be used. But that's just a vague memory I have of it.
@@Iflie There were originally seven Seeing Stones - Palantiri - im Middle-Earth each one housed at a specfic location. For example, there was a stone at Orthanc, the one Saruman used, and one at Minas Tirith which is the one Denethor used. And earlier there had even been one at the tower on Weathertop. It and others were presumed lost at the bottom of the ocean hence "they are not all accounted for ".
@@MigsDances Sauron must have had at least one and as usually the most powerful mind could show others what he wanted them to see. Or torture Pippin when invading his thoughts as he had no power at all.
@@Iflie Yes he had obtained the stone from Minas Morgul the tower of the Witch King. He had the strongest will so he could manipulate the owners of the other ones. The stone of Minas Tirith became unusable and would only show the burning hands of Denethor. The other ones were lost at sea and down The River. There was one other one that the elves kept hidden until after the war and Gandalf took it with him into The West. Eventually there was only the Orthanc stone that remained and it was kept at Minas Tirith in the possession of the king.
In the books there is a conversation between Frodo and Gandalf that talks about the difference in Bilbo/Frodo's experience with the ring and Sméagol's. It has to do with their first act after seeing/getting the ring. Bilbo began his relationship with the ring with an act of pity and mercy. He spared Gollum. Sméagol's began with an act of Murder. he murdered Déagol. This gave the ring a far more powerful hold over Sméagol and eventually led him to become Gollum.
The pirate that got shot on the ship was Peter Jackson, he put himself in all three movies.
I love Eowin. Her uncle said that all he wants is to see her smile once more.
Though she looked on him in his final moments, she smiled for him, and gave him that wish.
"I know your face"
Been more than 40 years since I first read the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and Eowyn's fight with the Witch King, and nearly 20 years since I first saw it on the big screen, and it still gives me chills. Thanks for sharing your experience :)
I've mentioned this in another reaction video, but it's still worth repeating: In the book, Frodo never really trusted Smeagol either, and on several occasions had to resort to threats to get him to back off. He knew that Smeagol would probably betray them, but couldn't anticipate when, where or how.
Also, Sam had noticed that Smeagol had seemingly two different personalities and commented on it
Also, Sam had noticed that Smeagol had seemingly two different personalities and commented on it
the reason for eowyn basically dying is because when she killed the witch king it very nearly kills her. not sure exactly but i think it like drains her life force. same thing happens to merri to a lesser degree cause he also stabbed the witch king. Also in the books aragorn is an amazingly gifted healer so pretty much only him or elves had the ability to save eowyn
The speech Gandalf gives to Pippin is actually the description from the book of what Frodo and Bilbo see when they are on the Last Ship and it finally arrives in the Undying Lands.
Aragorn is shown healing Eowyn after she defeats the Witch King. Her arm was broken but she was more gravely hurt from contact with him. One of the women in the house of healing remembered her lore that the hands of the king are healing hands. It's one of the ways the people of the city start to understand that the king has returned.
Actually Sam never fully moves on either. After his wife passes he takes the last ship to Valinor. And Valinor is a real place it's not heaven. It is the land of the gods and elves. Also when Legolas leaves for Valinor, he takes Gimli with him. The only dwarf ever allowed there.
The charge of the Rohirrim is one of my favorite scenes in any movie ever. Theoden's speech, the contrasting armies, just epic in every single way. I watch it whenever I need to get pumped up for something I don't want to do.
The hobbits coming back to the Shire, sitting in silence with their drinks as everyone else continues as if nothing's happened, whilst they exchange glances. I feel that's very much an homage to Tolkien, who served in the British army during WW1 including during some of the very worst and bloodiest battles. It captures this idea of soldiers returning home, and whilst the home is how they left it, they've changed too much.
Since it wasn’t brought up in the video, the guy that Gimli made Legolas shoot by mistake on the ship was actually Peter Jackson! I believe he makes an appearance in all the films as different background characters
Yep. In fellowship he’s a guy in Bree eating a carrot, Two Towers he’s in Helms Deep and you see him throw a spear, and the Return of King shot on ship.
Although Smeagol was beyond saving... Gandalf didn't forget Smeagol. When the Eagles came to rescue them... there were 3 Eagles, one for each of them. Gandalf prepared to save Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol. He never forgot about Smeagol and still had hope he could be saved.
However, in the book Smeagol said truly he would not survive the destruction of the Ring--that he would then die, die into the dust.
Or maybe it's because 3 is a powerful number,like the Silmaril,the House of Men,the hairs Galadriel gives to Gimli,the races of elves that arrive to Valinor and so on
Tolkien also wanted to express hope that Smeagol was redeemable, and that's why Gandalf rode with three eagles to pick up Frodo and Sam, clinging to hope that gollum would be there too. But the difference with Smeagol was his heart was already corrupt before the ring showed up. That's why he was so quickly drawn to it, so easily murdered his friend, and became a dark and twisted monster under its influence, whereas Bilbo and Frodo became heroes because inside their hearts were pure.
31:00 if you actually look at Sam’s face, he’s not actually being corrupted by the ring. What’s he’s seeing is how corrupting it’s becoming to Frodo and wishing to keep it from hurting his friend more.
However, as Frodo keeps demanding, Sam finally gives in to handing it to him.
Domi: Yes, we lost Smeagol, but the Fellowship survived...
Boromir: Am I a joke to you??
🤣
It was funny during the Charge of the Rohirrim when she said that the music playing was 'such a hopeful song'... it is, utterly and overwhelmingly... but contrast the theme then with the first time you heard it at Edoras when the king was under control of Wormtongue, when the tattered flag of the Rohirrim ripped free and fluttered to the ground at Aragorn's feet. There was no hope then at all, just a longing for what has gone before and been lost.
I never blamed Boromir for being seduced by the ring, but I did blame Gollum for his actions because of it. Domi's views on Gollum are genuinely making me review how I think about him as a character.
Man every time I watch these movies or watch reactions to it I just stand amazed at how this movie isn't just better than other movies, but how unbelievably, incredibly, and insanely better these movies are than all other movies. It's like not even a competition, this is just....WOW, this is so so so so absurdly good it just blows my mind.
Which is why my apartment is covered in these swords and books.
And yes, there was hope for gollum, there are a thousand interesting things to say about lord of the rings and the meanings and themes and everything, but seeing as how much you loved Gollum (understandable) I think I should tell you that Gandalf agrees with you, Gandalf also thought and hoped that he could be saved. Gandalf arrives at mount doom with three eagles, the third eagle, was for him, Gandalf fully hoped that Gollum could be redeemed, and ultimately he was right, no force on earth could have willingly destroyed the ring, the only reason the ring fell is because Gollum was there, in the end Gandalf was right, the pity of Bilbo ruled the fate of many.
In the end, evil destroyed itself, as it shall always do.
It’s been noted a few times that “evil” is not merely a different perspective, it’s ultimately a self-defeating one. Given the slightest provocation, the orcs would attack each other or run away. Only Sauron kept them focused on the goal.
Other examples of evil being self-defeating in LotR being Wormtongue being the one who killed Saruman and Gollum being the one who got the Ring destroyed.
This is the best Films I have ever seen, and I am not sure that anybody will ever produce something better then this. The LOTR movies are truly the top of movies and deserves being the most awarded movie in history so far.
To clarify one thing, the Rohirrim were very viking like in the way that death in battle was considered the most honourable way to go. This was a tradition that had been almost forgotten for nearly 200 years and this speech that Theoden gives is his way of bringing it back.
I thought Theoden's speech was much better than Aragorn's speech at the Black Gates.
I think Gimli and Legolas just don't bother competing with Aragorn, since he's probably killing more than those two combined, through sheer badassery.
JRR Tolkien was a war veteran, so he knows exactly how Frodo was feeling at the end. How you can never really go back to how things were because of all the experiences, not just physical wounds but mental wounds as well.
tolkien he barely had any fight and did not want to join was forced in 15 july 1915 and during the war was bored, had the time to write poetry he couldn't fight and was declared incapable he returned to england in 8 november 1916 so take it easy he was no hero and had harsh words for the men who want to fight both wars for freedom and justice just because he writed amazing books donesn't mean h7is was the best amazing person around its all in his biografy g4ive it a read before speaking nonsense about His depiction of people going through impossible trials, surviving, and then not being whole when they return to "normal" life g4o kiss arses elsewhere
@@carlogiurizzato2441 Dude... that one battle he fought in was the Somme, one of the bloodiest battles of WW1 in which iirc almost 50% of involved Entente soldiers died... he was declared physically incapable due to contracting trenchfoot, a condition in which your leg goes gangrenous and starts rotting because he had to hold a destroyed and flooding german trench during the action.
Get your head out of CoD, not every soldier has to kill 500 enemies and fight across an entire theater to be a veteran worthy of respect.
@@pipgang8566 baffon Tolkien contracted trench fever, a disease carried by lice parassite not gangrenous and starts rotting because he had to hold a destroyed and flooding german trench during the action. bmoron go bite grass lying foohl en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien#First_World_War
@@carlogiurizzato2441 I’m sorry, I didn’t realize it bothered you so much. I’m glad you were able to speak your mind and got it off your chest. Didn’t mean to attack you personally with that comment. And before saying I’m the one writing nonsense, maybe look at your own comment which could barely qualify as English.
Now, as to what I wrote, I read this somewhere a while ago, yes, I haven’t researched it, I read it, thought it was neat and wanted to share something. But hey, glad you set me straight, good on you! You win the internet today, sir, with how nice and not hostile you have been towards a total stranger on the internet. Good day to you!
@@thegamingdutchman2280 my own comment could barely qualify as English because i m not english you racist whiteboy
*ONE OF THE GREATEST MOVIE TRILOGIES OF ALL TIME*
*the greatest
Denethor considered his son dead because he was cursed by a similar morgul wound that Frodo had on weathertop. He would’ve died as well had it not been for Aragorn aiding to him. That moment is also important since many saw Aragorn as their king.. not only their king, but a kind king.
Ages ago the world was lit by two Trees in Valinor, home of the Valar, until a huge spider that hated their light called Ungoliant attacked them & sucked out all their sap. This spider, Shelob, is one of Ungoliant's offspring & hates light just as much. Galadriel's Phial contains the light of Earendil, a Silmaril gem containing the last light of the Two Trees. Light & dark are not only symbols of good & evil in Tolkien but embodiments of them. The light of Earendil actually burns Shelob. Galadriel knew what she was doing with her gifts.
At the end of Fellowship, Frodo says to Sam "I'm glad you're with me". At the end of Return, Frodo says "I'm glad to BE WITH YOU". Tolkien always said that Sam was the TRUE Hero of the story.
The greatest but not the only hero. They were all pretty heroic, least not being Frodo for choosing to bear evil and suffer because of it. They all did their part to protect Frodo to fulfill the mission he was chosen for.
Intrestingly, the moment Saurons Messenger showed them Frodo chainmail, he gave them hope.
Because if they have his chainmail, yet it's not Sauron himself that greets them, and they does not throw them his head, then Frodo must have escaped with the Ring, meaning there is still hope to win.
I don’t think Arwen gets enough credit really. It’s her unrelenting belief in Aragorn and her hope that everything with work out that really helps drive Aragorn and the whole story really. she’s the only character who doesn’t give in to despair or doubt at some point in the trilogy. She really is the embodiment of light and hope in the story
Ok, you got me with the happy cross-eyed Frodo.
2 things. LotR is greatly influenced by Tolkien's experience from WWI. Also. Sam was a ring bearer. He sailed to Valinor in his old age after Rosie died. He left the Red Book to his daughter if I remember correctly.
One of the things that I love about the books, and which the films do a passably good job in translating, is the linear nature of the story. Tolkien was weaving a story in the style of an old Norse saga, where each new chapter is a consequence of the thing that came before it, rather than just a bunch of stuff that happens. Boromir was tempted, causing Frodo to flee from the Fellowship. Because Frodo fled, the Orcs mistakenly capture Merry and Pippin. Because the Orcs brought Merry and Pippin to Fangorn Forest, they meet Treebeard. Because they meet Treebeard, the Ents march on Isengard and destroy it. Because Isengard is destroyed, Rohan is free to assist Gondor. And so on. Tolkien doesn't rely on the heroes doing heroic things *because* they're heroes; they're in the right place at the right time, with the right attitude and information, to be ready for the next thing that happens.
literally every story is a consequence of the thing that came before its called cause and effect genius jesus the people on internet gets dunmper and dumnper as it gets , lolololol Tolkien doesn't rely on the heroes doing heroic things because they're heroes; they're in the right place at the right time, with the right attitude and information, to be ready for the next thing that happens, they're in the right place at the right time because its a fuscking book noromoron th7ing4 h7appens because the author decided so get a life
tolkien he barely had any fight and did not want to join was forced in 15 luglio 1915 and during the war was bored, had the time to write poetry he couldn't fight and was declared incapable he returned to england in 8 novembre 1916 so take it easy he was no hero and had harsh words for the men who want to fight both wars for freedom and justice just because he writed amazing books donesn't mean h7is was the best amazing person around its all in his biografy g4ive it a read before speaking nonsense about His depiction of people going through impossible trials, surviving, and then not being whole when they return to "normal" life g4o kiss arses elsewhere
@@carlogiurizzato2441 Stop embarrassing yourself.
Great description. 👍It's what gives the story a feeling of urgency - of happening "now", contributing to the odd feeling of realism. 😃And a great deal is made of what various characters *know* (or don't know) at any given point... and of how that knowledge, or lack of it, influences their mood and actions. Because Denethor knows too much, he despairs. Because Sam doesn't comprehend the scale of the task, he doesn't.
the scene where sam isnt giving the ring back is partially due to him not wanting it to hurt frodo anymore, the ring also feeds off ambition so as a hobbit whose biggest goal is a nice garden and some good tabaco there pretty resilient
I have to agree with you on Theoden. The depiction of him is so Shakespearean (how many great soliloquys does he have?). The way he was written for the movies, along with Bernard Hill's depiction, amazes me. In this film, I love his interactions with Eowyn.
It's a bit of a shame that they couldn't really go into Denethor's story. (pacing of the movie and such) But what we see of him, is the end of a very sad and tragic story of his downfall. He was an extremely righteous, kind, caring and noble man.
They really did him dirty. He was not THAT much of a twat in the books and really wanted to help his people, but he was so hopelessly ensorcelled by the palantír he couldn't bring himself to be an effective leader.
@@patrickwaldeck6681 One of the key themes of the books and the films is hope vs despair. What each can do to different people and how each handles them differently. They all go through both. Even Gandalf has moments of despair.
@@mycroft16 exactly and like Thor said, they showed it in the form of Theodin and Denthor.
The orcs wear different livery depending on their commanders. Cirith ungol means the tower of the moon, so those orcs symbol on their armour is a moon crescent with a skull’s face. They are commanded from minas morgul so they answer to the witch king. Shagrat’s orcs are from barad-dur, so they wear the great eye on their armour. They answer to the Mouth of Sauron (Sauron;s chief lieutenant). The movies make none of this clear.
The fight over the mithril shirt is actually because each of the two orc commanders - shagrat and gorbag - wants the credit for turning over the stuff to their commander - and they think frodo is some sort of elf spy, so each wants the credit for catching him too.
Ironically thats one reason the orcs dont chase frodo and sam hard into mordor - no orc wants to catch up with the elf warrior who they think killed lots of orcs in cirith ungol (which is the story the rest of the orcs are told).
That moment in the pub at the end of the movie is definitely not in the book. In the book saruman (aka ‘sharkey’) has scourged the shire and turned it into an industrial hell, and the 4 hobbits raised the shire to get rid of saruman and his half-orcs.
"There has to be a level of... obeying orders". Wise words, especially given events of the last couple of years.
And what's that supposed to mean ?!
what makes shelob scene even more badass is i think it's recorded that sam is the only creature/person to have ever wound her, that's how strong she is
The fact she ends up doing it to herself as well (in the books atleast)
26:25 I think the original oath they made to Isildur was to defend the Pelennor fields (where they now stand) and Minas Tirith when called upon (which they didnt do). Anything else is outside the original oath.
My take on Sméagol is this: some people are more susceptible to the Ring than others. But that level of susceptibility is indicative of their true character to some degree. Boromir was an honorable man, but beset by a demanding and cruel father, years of fighting and short on hope. So he gave into it. But realized his mistake and how blind he was. Sméagol is a river folk who lives much like a Hobbit. There was no Great War, Sauron hadn’t returned, and life was relatively peaceful. And it’s always been peaceful where he lived. To instantly go to murdering your best friend, without having even touched the Ring yet, just seeing it for less than a minute; shows something about who he always was. Was he a terrible person, probably not. But it says to me that there was always something very selfish about Sméagol’s nature, well before the Ring. And that he probably was at least a bit of a boisterous jerk.
I love when Gandalf arrives at Mt Doom to save Sam and Frodo, he has a spare eagle to carry Smeagol in case he was still alive
The pokerface of Thor. Gotta love it. Thanks for sharing your reaction and thoughts on the masterpiece by Peter Jackson. This journey is one of my favorites on all of CZcams. You both provide Premium entertainment.
This movie has the perfect line (my favorite quote of all time): «I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you.» Favorite character is Sam, by far.
And a moment at the end has been growning on my since I saw it the first time: I love seeing Frodo smile, shortly before he boards the ship. This look is so wholesome.
I have to say: This one has even more action than The Two Towers and a perfect ending, but The Fellowship of The Ring is still my favorite. Nothing can beat my first experience in the movie theatre. 12 year old me was mezmerized by everything. It started all of it. It introduced us many characters. It has badass action scenes, great character moments, an unexpected death of a major character, who is the head of the operation.
As to the weight of the ring, when Sam gives it back to him in Cirith Ungol after rescuing him, you can see the bruises and cuts from the chain because of the real weight increase of the ring. Not imagined. It is physically getting heavier and harder to carry.