BMW Z3 M Coupe: How To Fix The Flawed Chassis Design | Wheeler Dealers
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 23. 03. 2021
- Ant shows how to fix the chassis issues that are the result of a flawed original design by BMW, where the combination of a powerful engine and weak platform undermined the structural integrity of the car.
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Appreciate showing all the detail and the work strengthening the diff ear and the box, and I understand you canât put too much in on a flip... but in this case itâs the film that pays the bills so why not finish strong
You may know, but,
That cross beam (hat section) is spot welded to the floor and also meets âframe railsâ of sorts forming an H shape. Many Z3 rear floor fails tear out spot welds joining that box to floor in middle but also out at ends of that box where load must move out to outboard lengthwise boxes (itâs not so much the beam is too weak as the beam tears off the floor)... if those many spot welds already fail OEM, then stiffening the center of the beam may simply fail the spot welds more readily (especially outboard) ....
I suggest anyone read through Randy Forbes kit installation detail before copying this method....1000+ Z3 reinforced and proven on track with power adders. Those methods also address corrosion concerns by accessing those box sections from inside the trunk and allow coating all surfaces rather than leaving underprotected metal between the reinf plate and OE stampings Check all the spot welds along the H ... this will require removing the insulation from the trunk floor
Thatâs a sweet little beastie and looks worth the effort
Thanks again for sharing. Really do enjoy the content
plus the car is appreciating, make sense to beef up the subframe for more value
Came here to post exactly this. I love Ant, but this is not a complete repair.
He has made the problem even worse. The spot welds that hold the diff crossmember to the boot floor pull themselves apart under heavy acceleration.
By strengthening the crossmember it will transfer more of that load to the weak spot welds. He should have also seam welded the crossmember to the boot floor, across its full length and on both sides.
I have owned multiple Z3's over 15 years, he has one for a week and is an expert!.
Those that say 'good job' never owned a Z3 with this problem.
And besides, the fact that he had so much problem trying to get the diff hanger off, should have shown him that wasn't even an issue
Randy Forbes is the expert. He has been making a kit for over a decade that addresses weakness all the way up the chain as you describe.
This is still my all time favorite BMW Driving Machine ! What a hoot ! Understeer, oversteer, 4 wheel slide, all in the same corner? Check, check and check !
Even better with after market suspension đ
Such nice rust will grow between the metal.....
Thought about the same, it should have been better coated. I guess a good lanolin undercoating will do the trick anyways. Fluid film etc
What starts the problem is the soft sub frame bushings. These will allow the front movement of the differential, which then transfer to the rear mount. Change the the soft sub frame bushings to Powerflex polyurethane bushes.
Your video quality and content are exceptional; your voice is impressively clear and engaging. Well doneđ«
Awesome work, mate!!
Ant just the best!
I looked away when your were welding đ€Ł
Haha is it actually harmful I mean from behind the screen lol
@@albertobiserov9904 Did- Did you actually just ask that???
Great Job!
Nice work!!!đ
Nothing beats the randy forbes reinforcement kit. :)
Itâs better to not need it in the 1st instance. Donât buy BMW
better to use a solid chromoly cross beam: www.vorshlag.com/forums/forum/board-rules-and-announcements/announcements/6878-z3-e30-differential-reinforcement-fab-work
I don't anticipate mine ever breaking
nice work. ive wanted a Z3 since i was a kid.
It's like 20 years old. What are you all waiting for?
@@watson9897 Money.
What sort of hand cream do you use?
Besides the fact that this repair did not address the trunk floor-related reinforcements (an important omission), I would be very concerned about corrosion issues associated with bare metal surfaces including those caused as a result of welding heat on the cars OEM-finished sheet metal (this corrosion concern would also apply to the installation of the more comprehensive Randy Forbes kit as well, I think). I wonder if the use of stainless steel plate together with stainless steel fasteners and an appropriate epoxy adhesive would be an adequate way to effect a repair/reinforcement without leaving behind bare steel surfaces? Of course this type of repair would be very labor intensive and require high precision machining operations (principally drilling of well aligned holes for fasteners). Comments on this approach?
Fasteners are used when flex is expected and allowed. Welding is used when you want to mitigate flex.
Weld through primer would solve these issues though.
Loving the use of weld through primer there đ
Since the Z3s and Z3 Ms share the rear suspension with the E30, I believe this is an E30 only problem. The E36 had a rear subframe - with a different problem unless it's a M3 (reinforced from the factory).
I donât see an E30 rear suspension here.
no full version of this?
That looks like an Ireland Engineering real anti-roll bar. Good choice!
Pretty good anti-rolls if Ireland Engineering, but their green bushes I used were terrible, they deteriorated within two years with less than 2000km covered.
I wonder if you could comment on the steering feel of the clown shoe? Iâve driven a few of them recently as I contemplate buying one but find the front end to feel very vague with regard to inputs/outputs and feedback, almost as if you point the car and it hunts for the line youâve given it. I drive Miataâs and Porsches and find the steering to feel much more direct and precise on these cars. Is the BMW really that bad or have I just driven a few lemons. If this is just the inherent feel of the car, is there any way to fix it? Would love to hear anyoneâs thoughts on the matter. Thanks!
I loved the full version of this episode. It was fun, funny, entertaining and super informative - great presentation of a great car
You forgot sag on the rear camber
Where is the full version?
Can you just bolt on thick steam plates?
I like this new guy even though I miss EDD
What episode is this ??
WzmocniĆ podwozie to jest fachowiec đđ wszystko przemyĆlane i zgodnie ze sztukÄ
Any has a great car side manner!
my old bmw e46 cabriolet had the same problem
Sweet video, i need to make more reinforcements on my ls swapped M Roadster
They make a perfect companion to that LS...It's called a Corvette!
@@papatorr3669 đ corvette doesnât need the bay bridge welded on just to stop falling apart either đ
You don't have an LS swapped M Roadster. Stop lying.
@@hoonaticbloggs5402 But the Z3 is so cute and fun on narrow twisty two lane mountain roads! You don't need the M or the reinforcements.
@@-VaLaK go look at my videos
awesome
I miss Edd Cina but this guy is pretty good too.
Is this all Z3's or only the coupes?
Granxe Ant 6 straordinari il migliore al mondo tue Mike okđđđun abbraccio da Italy Nikođźđčđźđčđźđčâ€ïžâ€ïžâ€ïžđ
Does this problem carry over to all z3's or only the m coupe?
2.8s can experience it, especially with enthusiastic drivers. 1.9s almost never see it. Modified for power cars obv also experience it.
Lack of maintenance can also cause this issue, as the play in the subframe bushings allows for extra force applied to the trunk floor.
He did not fix the issue in this video though. Reinforced the diff ear, sure. But typically the whole crossmember pulls away from the trunkfloor, which he did not address.
Yay how to do some backyard level of reinforcement good joob now no more touching cars okay
happy birthtay ant.
More z3 contants please
I am no mechanical engineer but from what I can tell, the diff bracket not much during (hard) acceleration. Torques cancel out for the most part. Also when the car is at the correct height (not lowered too far), it has a large degree of 'anti-squat' due to the semi-trailing pushing the car up during acceleration. When introducing wheel hop however..............
Wheel hop happens easily on this car given el crapo suspension design. Road only needs to be moist not wet. Of course, wheel hop on other RWD sports cars (other than other BMWs) does not cause destruction of car's rear end.
Can you add subtitles
Hoping to avoid all the â youâre not Ed â comments
Edd is over rated! Ant is just as good!
@@joebloggs4191 exactly
@@joebloggs4191 never seen this dude before and I'm pleasantly surprised its like the top gear situation Chris Harris is amazing shouldnt be overshadowed by past đ
@@joebloggs4191 Ant-man!!
Heâs not Edd.
Nobody drills out spot welds anymore on panels they aren't reusing. Use an air file with 36 grit to remove the welds. That way you can skip.
Hi, thanks very much for this very informative item. I have just "discovered" a ~2002 z3 3.0i sitting outside of a garage in a small town. been there since 2013, so I have serious concerns about the ability of the engine to turnover after all belts and fluids have been replaced. The bet is to let an expert do the basic flush and replacement and then cross my fingers when he turns the key. Any advice?
... buy a citroen
this presenter is a chrome !! a smart kid !!
the european version dif cover has mounts on both sides, Randy Forbes has a kit he installs to beef up the Z3mcoupes rear end
Randy Forbes kit, or do like I did (on perfect condition coupe) 4mm stainless through trunk and 2 eared E36 M3 3.0 diff cover.
I'd like to know more
@@DavidGregoire_ are you on bimmerforums?
@@eedesign878 yes, and I know about the Forbes kit but I'm not a good welder so looking for alternatives. My bracket hasn't broken yet
@@DavidGregoire_ mine did not break either. I got my own solution, but to be honest I did it a bit ugly too. Should have used different shop entirely.
Hello, EE. How do I find your posts on bimmerforums? Also what are your thoughts on comment I posted above concerning stainless steel plates and fasteners together with an appropriate epoxy adhesive? Thx
How not to drill spot welds..
I didnât understand what was the problem? Why did you have to fix something? It seems perfectly fine
Weak subframe is a known problem on Z3 and requires reinforcement.
A real pro and he makes it look easy
Life is easy when
you have the right tools
The car of cars
The back half is more E30 than E36. E36 has different rear subframe issues.
Yeah I was like wtf when he said e36.
@@PatrickLipsinic
It is an E36 rear suspension.
Have you ever seen an E30 rear axle ??
The Z3M in the US has 100 cv less than in Europe, so the power is not the same issue for the chasis.
DeWalt (B&D) made their tools in red color?
I would rather not re-engineer a car after spending a fortune.
Exactly!
Bare metal to bare metal welded together this will rust as f in few years and will damage structural beam
leaving the bare metal exposed, try some weld thru primer bud
Don't think it will ever pass an mot now
I miss Ant on WD đ
Ant did an incredible job with this car. It was a good episode, but Mike actually belittles Ant's work on the anti sway bar by saying, 'We've already talked about that. . .' Then at the end of the show, Mike again praises himself when he mentions his work on the new wheels, which amounted to media blasting the wheels.
Theses programs with Edd China and Ant are very informative and great fun to watch, but when Mike chimes in, I chime out. His narcissistic and belittling comments of others work are not fun to see.
Ha changed a battery. Edd would have more batteries.
Yea easy!!! I wish you would work on a car covered in all the age and road crap we have to deal with in the real world.
đđđđđđđ
S52... you guys got it really rough over there. đ€Ł
Wouldnât this modification be a major fault at the MOT station? Constructive change to the design etc.
Pretty sure they built this in California - most of Ant's episodes were filmed in the US.
Wouldnât be a problem as these changes are chassis strengthening as long as thereâs no corrosion or damage, it would be a issue if chassis parts were removed that shouldnât off but a strengthening bar is a plus as long as the chassis strength hasnât been jeopardised.
what a nice problem to have , those M coupes are such a great looking wee car , but they are shooting up in value.
I've noticed that myself! It is crazy what they are going for now!!!
I should've never gotten rid of my 1999
@@michaellawson6334 Ive wanted one longer than that , I really do like them , sort of like a smaller Ferrari FF
@@tomthompson7400 I will get another one eventually but definitely not at these current crazy prices!! I'm seeing prices from $39K - $112K and we're talking about 1999's and maybe a 2000!!!!
I have no idea what happened in just the 7 years since I got rid of my 1999
@@michaellawson6334 strange how it works out ,,, i know the feeling though , sometimes I think I would have been Dolly Partons third bottle fed triplet , and If I had a duck it would drown ,, but thats just how things seem to go ,,, lol
@@tomthompson7400 That is hilarious!!!!!
This hurts to watch...
Sold my coupe cuz this issue at 40k miles. Never went back to bmw.
It's a $3 - 4k fix at a shop and the car is solid otherwise. These Z3Ms are still increasing in value as well, so doing this fix is almost a no brainer.
BMW has a long history of badly engineered, rear chassis.
My E30 ripped the rear bar brackets out after one track day..
Trunk to swaybar reinforcement brackets are common on Bimmers.
The chassis is not flawed. Source, S54 owner from 01. Hauled Jet Skis up and down the coast. You know ... no subframe issues. Basically hype to ad space.
The chassis is most definitely flawed, ask anyone who's ever tracked a z car. This modification is an absolute necessity for spirited driving. It's not a matter of IF your chassis starts splitting, but when.
When women breakdown the problem can be easy to put right. So show them Wheeler Dealers! And let's see some American beauties in the workplace learning directly.
(UK)
What gunt
Glad I didnât get one
No solid PPE.., đ..., That's not a good sign. He should have worm gloves and a face shield at least!
Thatâs why I went with the Z4. Much stiffer, great styling, and doesnât have these issues for the most part.
I have a Z3, a friend had a Z4. "Had" because they missed a turn on wet pavement and bumped the front wheels over a curb at probably 20 MPH with the brakes locked up and totalled the car. Whole front end was twisted beyond reasonable repair.
@@DconBlueZ skill issue
This is a rust disaster to beâŠ
What was going on with the semingly fake test driving on this episode ?? Looks like Eric and Ernie driving on the Riviera touch to me with odd looking steering inputs
Bmw should do a recall on those subframesâŠ.pathetic build by bmwâŠ
The worst thing about wheeler dealers is Brewer, he thinks he is that important he keeps saying , ME and ED, ME and ANT, Me and Elvis when they should be first, also itâs not ANYFINK itâs anything, the program is not about Brewer âŠ
Remember wear eye protection when working over your head, but lett us completely fuck up your hearing by not using ear protection when grinding! one and a half thumb up
you will never be Ed, there is nothing wrong with that z3 your just trying to be clever ,,and your not.
Boys stop tunning please.
Buy a MX5, so much fun and no "fixing" needed!
yeah but then you own yet another boring MX5
Miata rust behind the seat area, under the convertible top. Rust on the wheel arches. Plus the clown shoe are buying them for over 50k while the Miata is 5k.
@@DanielEhlmann You must like problems.
@@PatricioGarcia1973 Lucky you ain't a Clown Shoe then
I drove a MX5 once, never really got the appeal to be honest!
âGerman engineeringâ Hmmmmđ§
We all prefer Ed China, but Ant does a good replica
Why did you misspell his name if you love him so much?
I don't prefer Edd. He was okay but Ant is a master at this.
Edd was good but didn't seem to grow as the show needed to. Things get stale an embarrassing if they don't evolve.
Edd is way over rated!
Ant is a worthy replacement for Edd China.
Bodged up what was a chassis with no rust or cracks for no reason other then to make rubbish program
Yes. This problem is over played according to many repair garages I have spoken to
"no other reason" THAN, not "then"
You should be correct when correcting others.
Clown shoe.. Said so many things to let me know didnât know what heâs talking about
Buy an MX-5
Not good as it was with ed china. Didnt liked it
Une z3 M avec un 2.8 đ đ đ c est pas la 321cv. La pipe d admission est Celle de la 2.8. C est un simple z3 packM et non une M. Cette Ă©mission est naze. Je la boycotte desuite
Just donât buy this BMW crap
We đȘđș have stile Americans are like I don't like it I want a big pickup so I can transport things đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Utterly garbage car. Not worth any dime spent to make it âbetterâ.