Let's talk about how to approach the same idea from different angles and see how one affirms and another subverts. #guitar #musictheory #90s #nirvana #cardiacs #rickbeato
The opening riff itself wasn't Tim playing nor was it devised by Tim. It's by Jon Poole, who brought a huge amount of ideas and his talent to Cardiacs. Undoubtedly Tim was a genius in many ways but it's important to remember that Cardiacs were a band. A great number of huge individual talents as well as the collective sounds that made Cardiacs so unique.
True, but in the context of the video, that's not really the point. Tim and Jon worked together so beautifully, they may as well have been one at that point.
@@Jordan-cj6uyis there a previous non Cardiacs version? Don't answer, I'm just mocking your way of writing. Unless there is one, maybe Jon used it beforehand
I think it's an exaggeration to say that Tim Smith "suffered and struggled his entire musical career to prove to the world that his band even existed". The Cardiacs had a big and incredibly loyal following and enjoyed a long and successful career recording and playing live. They definitely could have had more commercial success and critical acclaim but they were never going to be as famous as Nirvana nor do I think they wanted to be. It's pretty clear Nirvana never wanted to be as famous as Nirvana either
Tim did the same thing other artists have done from time to time, overlaid the beauty contained in the music with a veneer of uglyness that can be offputting to most people. Zappa did that as well.
Tbh I found it incredibly sad that when Tim Smith died even my dear friends said things like "although his music wasn't really my thing", "I didn't care for his music to be fair but.." before expressing how sad his circumstances in later years were due to his ill health and an autoimmune disease. It's a bit like people saying "sorry but..". I mean OK, don't like his music but he was a human being 😐. I can't think of many occasions people have said it like that, esp when 2016 we had scores of celebrity deaths but hardly anybody let alone a best bud of mine would speak ill of any of them when they died. That to me objectively encapsulates the weird hatred cardiacs get.
I don’t think Tim Smith “struggled and suffered to prove…that his band existed.” Cardiacs outlasted many and played packed venues up to the end. Certainly they were mostly unknown outside of the UK but their music was unique in a way that meant they were never going to have mass cross-over appeal in the American market. I’m lucky to have seen Cardiacs many times. No other band comes close - whatever lineup they were playing with. Thank you for highlighting one of the best!
I agree with you with the caveat that you can hear stuff that's been theorized without knowing the academic way of communicating it. Gypsy Jazz is a good example of that in my opinion, and I think that's exactly what rick beato meant. kurt "heard" the theory without knowing how to verbalize it, just how I knew that flat VI major to I resolves beautifully before knowing what scale degrees were.
Great video! Kurt and Tim were both very talented guys but yeh, it’s obvious that Tim really knew his music theory and was operating in a different league. If Kurt had lived, it would have been a while before we saw him doing string arrangements, for example, on anything like Tim’s level. Does it matter? I think Beato was just making the point that if you have great ideas and you can get them out of your head and onto tape, then who cares how they got there? Music theory sure broadens your horizons, though. It gives you more options than just going on instinct. I’m sure it increases your chances of being a successful musician greatly. I think of it this way-if Kurt had been born 20 years later, would he be playing grunge? Unlikely. Would he be one of the most successful artists in the world? Possibly but I wouldn’t bet on it. If Tim had been born twenty years later would he be writing music earning him honorary PhDs from musical conservatories? Sure he would.
It' worth remembering Kurt pretty much invented Grunge, it was just indie/punk before I think Kurt would have become an acoustic wielding troubadour the vein of Neil Young...Kurt was never going to be Frank Zappa or Allan Holdsworth & it would be unfair to assess him in that context. He wrote songs and had his own vocal thing going on...& I'm confident if he was still with us & making music he would have developed in that frameork...the unplugged show kind of gave us a possible alternate timeline with hiim & what he would have transitioned into
Absolutely brilliant. You know, I discovered Cardiacs later in my late twenties and early thirties. I grew up in my teens with nirvana and the like, so I guess I feel an influence for both. But like Tim Smith I'm a composer, Cobain wasn't really a composer as such. There's no wrong way to do things, he played off pure feeling and how he understands dynamics and melody. Smith though is closer to Elfman than cobain. There's a definite difference imo ❤️
Jon Poole is a great guy and a brilliant musician, playing and writing. He really deserves more laudation. Get over to The Dowling Poole and Lifesigns to do so.
So it’s gonna sound like I’m nitpicking, but you missed something extremely important in “Smells Like Teen Spirit” so hear me out… First off, I’ve never listened to Cardiacs so I had to check that track out. Thanks, pretty awesome song. I’m gonna have to listen to them more now (someone give me recommendations please). In “Smells Like Teen Spirit” in the original key most agree that Kurt is playing F5, Bb5, Ab5, and Db5. Except, after the first set of chords in between the Bb5 and Ab5 he plays an all open string noise starting from the A string. This is important because mainly our ears are hearing the A tone out of all that noise since our ears pick up on the lowest note more predominantly. Hearing this tone which is played on a quick up beat helps lead us back down to Ab. Does Kurt know he’s doing this? That’s actually debatable. Krist Novoselic on bass guitar is reinforcing this sound by also playing an A natural after the Bb to help walk down to Ab. Sometimes he plays G to lead into Ab. These are good use of leading tones. The same thing is done after the Db to bring us back into the F at the beginning of the riff. Guitar plays an all open string noise while bass plays a C to give us that more complete sounding V to I authentic cadence. Does Nirvana know what they’re doing? Maybe not academically, but the tones are obviously important enough that they had to put them in there. A little known fact, Krist Novoselic played his bass tuned down a whole step (on the album) because he liked the timbre that it produced. He still played the open A which would now be fretted for him to play. If you listen closely he slides up quickly after hitting it most of the time since it’s on the 2nd fret and not just an open string. This gives proof of its use being less of a place holder and once again the sounds all seem to be very intentional regardless of whether they can give a name to the reason. And to be honest, I apologize because I don’t think I understand the take away from this video because I would definitely agree that Nirvana has developed an intuition of what’s going on. In fact, I think it’s all intuition on their part. They just don’t have any formal training on music theory. They know how to build basic chords. They don’t necessarily know the function of the chords they use. Their understanding is through feel, from where the tones pull them, and It never sounds incoherent. Their songs aren’t proper, but they also aren’t basic. The structure is a little more advanced. Do they know that? No. But it’s like grammar. I don’t have to know about dangling participles or decide whether I’m using past or future tense to form a coherent sentence. Music itself is just another form of artistic communication. Sorry to take you on that long ride. I don’t think you’re full of it, but I do agree with Rick Beato. Good job on your channel. I enjoyed your video. Keep it up.
Hello. I recommend "Sleep All Eyes Open" by Cardiacs. That is kind of their Nirvana moment. Kind of. You may or may not enjoy it... If you do - here's lots more czcams.com/video/62s6xR4C1to/video.html
@@edphantom3096 thanks for the play list. I really enjoy it. I don’t know how I missed out on these guys. This is right up may alley. Cardiacs remind me of Oingo Boingo a lot. They would pair well with Mr. Bungle too.
I'm a composer (as in, I've scored films, short cartoons, done jingles and themes, orchestrated parts intricately, written parts for more than one person to play etc) I'm not classically or formally trained. Am self taught. When I was in my mid twenties I became a bit dissilusioned with the singer songwriter thing, not sure where I fit in. But Tim Smith showed me that composing is a beautiful thing. My point is Kurt Cobain is the reason I picked up a guitar at all, but take something like In Bloom which Beato actually dissected recently and you'll see Kurt uses all 12 notes of the chromatic scale in that which is a nice touch and certainly not by accident. Kurt gets a lot of stick for simplicity at times but Beato makes a good case to show his strengths, whist Kurt isn't as musically adept as Tim Smith he absolutely was vital in his own right and his lasting impact on pop culture and music cannot be denied. As for Tim, people can claim he didn't get his dues, but what would that be? He influenced Blur and Mr Bungle there's not many bands that can say that! Tim never wanted to be a household name or doing jingle remixes for fairy liquid. Right now Cardiacs are emerging more and more as a lasting influence on the 90s and beyond As for "laying their fingers in a certain way" and stumbling on apparent brilliance? Well it didn't harm Andy Patridge, did it? He says that's how he'd often write if he hit a creative brick wall
I thought this was going to be a tute on writing hooks. Some years ago I gave a young music student some advice, 'learn all you can from your teacher, practice until your playing is really good and you have confidence in knowing your instrument, then throw everything away and start writing your own songs, your way,". I played with a great bass player years ago (theoretically solid with ideas and attitude), at times he would comment that what I played did not fit the key (structure) yet still worked. I found years ago that music is not a paint by numbers kind of thing. Great music contains a lot of implied direction and motion, yet can be shifted in the subtlest ways into other directions and colours as it unfolds. It is the reason blues and grass roots can still shine with minimal production. In my own famously unknown catalogue, some of my simpler tunes generate more views than my complicated pieces. Thanks for the post Alex.
I have no problem stating that Tim was THE greatest pop composer, period. Even as a FZ freak, I think Tim was even beyond Frank in his abilities to compose incredible psychedelic pop music. Also, I've written multiple times to Rick Beato and Doug Helvering regarding the brilliance and genius of Tim/Cardiacs......cricket cricket. They might think its some lo-fi two-chord punk band....
Cool video! In your version of the Nirvana riff, you missed a bunch of the subtlety going on in the real riff as played on the album. The Tim Smith riff is sweet and more technically ornate and interesting, but I think the simplicity and balance of the teen spirit riff is what cemented it in the collective cultural mind. In general I think the boiled down simplicity of Kurt's song writing was one of the biggest factors of their success.
I would pick spellbound by siouxsie and the banshees for a good example of alternative guitar ideas and an insight into what wonderful possibilties await on the guitar.I saw Cardiacs in sheffield in mid 80s and they just blew me away;fantastic - sort of postpunkprog very unique, Tim was a great guitarist I think a lot of people should acknowledge him as such.I can remember his set up -a westone guitar and a transister h/h amp , it sounded great in his hands,Cardiacs rocked sheffield Leadmill great gig>
Music is an art, and like all good art it thrives on emotion. Its the emotion and clever song writing apparent in the nirvana recordings . Logic can be a tool in music but creativity must take over to deliver something special. It has to deliver emotionally or else it is just a nice trick. And as we see with all great artists, jimi, the beatles, Van Halen, Bach, nirvana, their music is still loved long after their time
Thank you for this video. Subscribed! It is weird how the genius of Tim Smith is still ignored by musical blogers like Rick Beato just like musical press ignored him in 90s. Often I leave a comment about Cardiacs here and there recommending their music. So far only Ben Levin said he is aware of Cardiacs and love them.
I just don't think it's likely Rick's heard of them. He has been saying for years now he'd do a what makes this song great on Mr Bungle. But he hasn't. :/ I reckon he'd probably pick Retrovertigo Anwyay. So no big loss
I don't have a lot of time for Beato these days. I do have a lot of time for Cardiacs, and indeed Nirvana but I'm not sure what they really have to say about what Beato's point was here. When Beato was saying they don't need to know what they were doing, I doubt he was saying they don't need to compose with intention, or that it's just guesswork. Which I think is a little bit how you are interpreting it here by talking about how the writers of each riff might have arrived at them. As a composer who grew up self-taught and later had more formal education, it always slightly irritates me when people equate not knowing theory to guessing. I've never been a theory-based composer in that while I'm thinking creatively, and writing, I try to think as little as possible about the theory behind what I'm writing. And that's because I trust my ear, and I believe my ear is better and faster at music theory than I'll ever be trying to explain it out loud. I started writing music having no idea what I was doing but having a really strong ear for melody and harmony and understanding when what I was doing sounded how I like, and being able to make deliberate music choices in that way. And that's still basically my process, even though now I can go back over what I did and think 'ah, this is a tritone sub,' or 'here I'm borrowing from the lydian mode' later. That's nowhere near my head when I'm in the act of writing, and I'm very at peace with that, I don't think it affects my ability to trust my ears. The most I use theory in writing is as a quick shortcut to solving musical problems. Let's say in the course of my writing I've strayed far from the home chord and I want to get back there, and nothing is springing immediately to mind - then I might think 'okay, well what's the V chord and how might I get there from here?' but that's about 2% of my overall process. The point of all that text I guess is that I think Beato was just saying here that it doesn't matter if the writer knows all the terms for what they're doing, because he can explain it. And I agree with that, since the way that I work and the way I learned, I could never think of theory as anything other than a primarily descriptive tool, rather than a prescriptive one. It doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm doing, or that I'm stumbling around by accident to hit what I want. It just means that I have a very strong working relationship with my ear, and when it's just between me and my ear, the understanding of what I am doing operates on a very intuitive level.
Always felt that Bellyeye riff was a nod to Blur (perhaps specifically or too obviously There's No Other Way) who were themselves big Cardiacs fans. Sing To God is among other things the best least heard Britpop record.
Sorry to nitpick but you did talk about how important the G natural was to the riff when there isn't a G natural in that part. I am pretty sure that note is meant to be an F# not a G. Not 100% sure that it's an F# but it's definitely not a G.
Overall nice vid but i think you go too deep regarding ending second chord passage on G natural instead of g# - id assume that manually it was easier to him to make such puloff than to slide down one fret
@@nihilistlivesmatter5197 They both used very simple harmony--only rarely would they use a chord more complex than a minor seventh, and then it was intuitively, such as in the opening of _A Hard Day's Night_ or the second chord in the _Stairway_ progression. Page could read music, although probably not very well. Harrison never learned to read music. They had a ton of studio experience, so both were competent producers, esp. Page. Obviously, they were both versatile and highly inventive guitarists. We can say they knew what they were doing _within their sphere._
@@nevbarnes1034 I think you underestimate them & quite condescendingly so...'within their sphere' get over yourself they probably forgot more about harmony & chord contruction then you will ever know
@@nihilistlivesmatter5197 Then why did we never see it in their music? Why, for example, was Harrison unable to properly identify that chord in _A Hard Day's Night?_ (The Beatles leaned heavily on George Martin's classical expertise.) Moreover, most successful artists are only competent within their sphere, so that is no sort of insult--trust me, I've had to work with classical musicians attempting to play rock. Did you ever see Menuhin attempt jazz with Stéphane Grappelli?
@@nevbarnes1034 the chord in hard days night is infamously quite contentious.....constructed by Lennon & Harrisson playing subtly different voicings & throwing a piano & Paul's Bass into the mix..there's two questions what 19/20 yo George played & the overall expressed harmony Again you're generalising, unfairly & ignorantly so..we can throw Mick Ronson into the mix Bowie's 'rock' guitarist who's skilled arrangements went underthe radar...we can talk about Randy Rhoads or Fripp Trying not to be rude but I don't think you have a clue about 'rock' musicians & are propogating the usual uninformed negative tropes
I think this might be in danger of getting taken up as a "Cardiacs-vs-Nirvana" my-band-wins match. Both songs are on their way to different places, and give some indication of where that might be right away? ("Teen Spirit" is on its way to something more direct, though, where Bellyeye saves up some mystery in the lyrics.) I like them both. Which is the more interesting? I don't know. Can I have both, please? (I think Dave Grohl might even say something like that, too, what with him being both a Nirvana and a Cardiacs fan. ;-) ) Rick definitely errs on the side of the idea that "the market is right" when it comes to most of his song selections (with the exception of Swervedriver, so I suppose it might just be that he has his own "indie banner to fly"?) I find I tend to only listen to the What Makes This Song Great (which he hasn't done for ages) if I feel like I might need some correcting. (e.g. Of all the Van Halen songs, choosing the one the market said was right: Jump - the one I always skipped on the CD back in the day. Heard what he had to say. Agreed in principle. Still bypass it though.)
Absolutely you can have both! :D Ok my thumbnail is a little clickbait-y haha (I'm just a small channel after all) and I admit I've gotten more mileage over the years out of Tim's work than Kurt's, but there's always room for both and what speaks to you most. I've always been fascinated by how different artists approach similar materials to create, and HT will hopefully be an exploration of that.
@@alexmcinsnax I've got a T-shirt with a daisy on it, and I don't have one with a baby swimming, so I think that says that right now I know I'm getting more mileage from Tim's music, too, if it comes down to that. As for thumbnails, what good is a thumbnail that doesn't have some clickbait qualities to it? :D I love the way Tim avoids being pinned down about things like genre (it's Cardiacs genre; and when it's Sea Nymphs, it's that genre; easy question to answer, actually), and I think he avoids letting a song get restricted to one particular emotion, either. That might be part of the secret. Always leave room for the song to develop into its own creature, just like it's wisest to let a band have its very own character.
The principle of "Keep It Simple, Stupid" is why Nirvana (and much of early '90s alt-rock) sounds good, imho - and, yes, it was "simple" compared to much of the '70s and '80s diddle-fest. The simple power of Teen Spirit's riff is clear when compared to the similar, and more musically adept, riff of Bellyeye; or even the similar riff of the Pixies Umass, or Boston's More Than A Feeling (...teehee). Nirvana's peculiar alchemy was based on distillation. It was Occam's Razor in action. Nirvana returned to a stripped down punk ethos, whereas Cardiacs were a post-punk mind-fuck, with knobs on. Both crackin' bands, in my opinion; but Nirvana channeled a raw something-or-other that captures the ears like few other bands.
Great video! My hot take on this is a more qualitative one: that Cardiacs track instantly takes me back to very specific period of time - even just hearing the guitar, it’s just very much “of it’s time.” The Nirvana track, it feels timeless - and I can’t really put my finger as to “why,” but I think it’s because of what they chose to leave out. I feel like it’s always a risk with getting too ornate. And I think that’s part of the reason why “Smells Like Teen Spirit” remains so iconic: the critics loved it, the people loved it and it is timeless.
It's a great point! Objects/songs/films with timeless appeal seem to tap into something special for any generation. The niche will always be there and find it's fans, but the things that endure seem collectively to have that "feels like it's always been there" quality. Thanks for watching!
It is possible that Smells Like Teen Spirit seems ‘timeless’ because we’ve been hearing it everywhere we go for thirty years. It’s a great song and the verse parts evoke a lot of nostalgia (that’s personal, of course). The Cardiacs riff seems like it could have been written in the 70s or 90s. I can’t imagine someone putting it out today but the same could be said about the Nirvana riff.
This Cardiacs riff flows very naturally though, as if no ornamentation was there. Anyway, I don’t think it would’ve mattered if Tim Smith had chosen a more naked version for the riff. They had already been banned by one stupid magazine that doesn’t even exist anymore, and had too many stupid haters who were fans of more forgettable bands. Also, this Cardiacs track gets more and more elaborate on the way. A simpler version of that simple riff wouldn’t have made sense. And the track isn’t even the highest point in the album. Let’s face it. There is no big “mass” with the sensitiveness and taste it takes. I mean, they’re all watching Eurovision and listening to Måneskin now 😅 Even when an actually great band becomes very famous, most people become fans of the musicians’ lives, watch all the biopics, etc. but can’t tell a thing about their music. Like a half of The Beatles’ fans, who don’t get the difference between Love Me Do and A Day In The Life but still get at you if you just try to calm them down.
I gave up on Beato when I replied to his "No one can write like Sting" video with "Well Gotye did it". He responded pretty much telling me I was too stupid to know the difference. Also his channel now clearly panders to celebrities. I know people who know him and his ego is well known.
Firstly, Jon wrote this riff.... secondly I saw Cardiacs 150 times and 70% of the shows were packed, so “struggled and suffered to prove…that his band existed.”...nope
An interesting compare and contrast. I stopped watching ricks videos the day he posted a video about his awsome custom built DAW which in my mind was not fit for purpose, It seems like a petty thing but I knew that people would be watching the video and be likely to waste money that could be better spent (on instruments for example) and found myself wondering what his channel was even about. I could deal with the name dropping and the consistent sales pitches for his merch, and the other stuff that comes when people over personalise their channels. As for your compare and contrast between Cardiacs and Nirvana, initially I found it a bit unfair, I mean Nirvana are no where near the level of Cardiacs musically but I suppose that may have been a reason why you selected the two to begin with. In defence of Nirvana (and possibly rick if this is the point he was going with his comment), the music of the cardiacs is clearly orchestrated... the level of forethought that goes in to music does not negate the artistic and emotional impact of alteratives with a lesser level of articulation or (for lack of a better word) skill. If you were to pit a classical artist against an early 80 punk band they would both resonate with different audiences and for different reasons, the way their music would have been constructed and the resultant sound would both have merit, and the audience of both would likely favour their own.
Rick Beato, took against Cardiacs when a group of people tried to get him to listen to them. He thought it was a promotional attempt... Lost a bit of respect for him over that.
Your references to Beato are gratuitous, nothing to do with your main point. But as you brought him up: I think you misunderstood his opinion, which was that some people create great music without knowing music theory. That seems to me a generous viewpoint from someone who earns his living by teaching music theory, as well as being self evidently true. That's not the same as saying "don't bother learning theory". As to your main point, as a Cardiacs fan I believe that anything that draws attention to them (30 years too late) is to the good. I wish RB would do some videos on them.
For me, I find his general reverence for 90's guitar rock a bit baffling - as Alex mentions in this video. I like a lot of that stuff too, but he really promotes it as if it was the pinnacle of popular music.
@Benjamin K I don't really understand why anyone thinks that. I have learned to play pretty much every Nirvana song on guitar and they are all simple and repetitive. His vocal Melodies are the only area where I think he really shined
I'll always love Rick for championing Allan Holdsworth but Rick is a boomer (boomer here ;) with boomer sensibilities. You can't do the high school music teacher thing and explain rock with music theory bromides. There are literally hundreds of four-chord guitar riffs that follow the Teen Spirit antiphonal template (Space Cowboy, More Than a Feeling, to name just two out of zillions), which is derivative of them and not the other way around. You can explain how these riffs "work" with music theory, but in such a general way that it doesn't really say anything or lay out any principles. It's glorified personal taste. But Nirvana isn't on the same planet with Cardiacs. The Bellyeye intro riff (which never repeats in the song) leads into an earworm verse (in 8+6) and multiple choruses in different meters. The main chorus in 6/4 with the quarter-note chords I'd bet my eye teeth is influenced by the last head section of National Health's The Bryden Two-Step (For Amphibians). Their first drummer, Mark Cawthra, auditioned for National Health as a teenager. Dave Stewart politely but firmly said no ;) Tim was famously influenced by some of the more well-known 70s prog bands, Genesis, Gong, Gentle Giant, Zappa, but also by the ragged edge of experimental Canterbury. He lifted the title of Nurses Whispering Verses from a Slapp Happy lyric. There are not many "straight" rock tunes in Cardiacs' discography. Tim also famously said "it's all just tunes, innit?" He hated categorization and armchair music analysis from rock critics. Most true innovators chafe at music theory (cf. Allan Holdsworth, who invented his own concept of chord scales). So how would a music teacher, as Rick aspires to be, benefit anybody by breaking down the mother of all cliched chord movements? To what? Help guitarists write tunes as vacuous and derivative as Teen Spirit? No music teacher made Tim Smith or Allan Holdsworth Tim Smith or Allan Holdsworth.
Is your argument that Nirvana didnt know what they were doing? Because their riffs were more simple than eccentric and boundary-pushing, genius act Cardiacs? Or because Kurt learned from imitating the Beatles and his contemporaries rather than learning theory or geting a Doctorate in music? If someone crocheted a sock by learning how to do it from someone else without learning the names of each stitch and technique did they make a sock by accident? You accuse Rick Beato of being name droppy, but why are you bringing up Cardiacs? Is it to show how knowledgeable in obscure acts you are. How discerning you are? Look out ladies! This guy doesn't listen to Home Depot rock! Academic knowledge tells you nothing about a persons musical craft. Youve heard the saying, "the difference between a baker and a chef is the baker follows a recipe and a chef composes a recipe through learned skill"? Music Theory is academic knowledge. Its required for academics. It is not required for musicians. Music theory is trying to interpret what musicians are doing. Music created by recipe of theory is almost always poor music. A more accurate paraphrasing of Beato is, "it doesnt matter if [musicians] know what they are doing [in terms of theory]. I know what they are doing [in terms of theory]." You are conflating doing something without academic knowledge and doing something by accident. That's idiocy.
![This Band Changed My Life! [Cardiacs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZF0n1gI-d9w/mqdefault.jpg)
The opening riff itself wasn't Tim playing nor was it devised by Tim.
It's by Jon Poole, who brought a huge amount of ideas and his talent to Cardiacs.
Undoubtedly Tim was a genius in many ways but it's important to remember that Cardiacs were a band. A great number of huge individual talents as well as the collective sounds that made Cardiacs so unique.
This is correct. The guitar part you’re referencing on the cardiacs track was composed and performed by Jon Poole, not Tim Smith.
True, but in the context of the video, that's not really the point. Tim and Jon worked together so beautifully, they may as well have been one at that point.
Cardiacs are the greatest. RIP To Tim and Tim.
Jon Poole ate my underpants!
@@Jordan-cj6uyis there a previous non Cardiacs version? Don't answer, I'm just mocking your way of writing. Unless there is one, maybe Jon used it beforehand
I think it's an exaggeration to say that Tim Smith "suffered and struggled his entire musical career to prove to the world that his band even existed". The Cardiacs had a big and incredibly loyal following and enjoyed a long and successful career recording and playing live. They definitely could have had more commercial success and critical acclaim but they were never going to be as famous as Nirvana nor do I think they wanted to be. It's pretty clear Nirvana never wanted to be as famous as Nirvana either
A lot of people who were aware of Cardiacs passionately hated them, as well. It’s the haters’ loss but it can’t have been easy for Tim.
Tim did the same thing other artists have done from time to time, overlaid the beauty contained in the music with a veneer of uglyness that can be offputting to most people. Zappa did that as well.
Tbh I found it incredibly sad that when Tim Smith died even my dear friends said things like "although his music wasn't really my thing", "I didn't care for his music to be fair but.." before expressing how sad his circumstances in later years were due to his ill health and an autoimmune disease. It's a bit like people saying "sorry but..". I mean OK, don't like his music but he was a human being 😐. I can't think of many occasions people have said it like that, esp when 2016 we had scores of celebrity deaths but hardly anybody let alone a best bud of mine would speak ill of any of them when they died.
That to me objectively encapsulates the weird hatred cardiacs get.
Cardiacs. Not The Cardiacs. I’m not a pedant, I’m a stickler.
Tim would have accepted a "world famous Cardiacs" for sure.
I don’t think Tim Smith “struggled and suffered to prove…that his band existed.” Cardiacs outlasted many and played packed venues up to the end. Certainly they were mostly unknown outside of the UK but their music was unique in a way that meant they were never going to have mass cross-over appeal in the American market. I’m lucky to have seen Cardiacs many times. No other band comes close - whatever lineup they were playing with. Thank you for highlighting one of the best!
Putting the spotlight on Tim Smith and Cardiacs? Instant sub. Great video
I don't get the very prominent delay, it just muddies up the sound we're trying to analyze.
Tim Smith, Cardiacs, absolute genius, bless him, phenomenal band
They are both quite nice, it's all just tunes, innit? ;)
Great vid! Always nice to see Cardiacs getting some much-deserved recognition
CARDIACS 💖
I agree with you with the caveat that you can hear stuff that's been theorized without knowing the academic way of communicating it. Gypsy Jazz is a good example of that in my opinion, and I think that's exactly what rick beato meant. kurt "heard" the theory without knowing how to verbalize it, just how I knew that flat VI major to I resolves beautifully before knowing what scale degrees were.
Anyway, let’s get Cardiacs to Beato! Who is a vip follower of his?! We need to have him make a “The BEST BAND you never heard about” video!
Nah… On a second thought, the guy will never reply to that.
Great video! Kurt and Tim were both very talented guys but yeh, it’s obvious that Tim really knew his music theory and was operating in a different league. If Kurt had lived, it would have been a while before we saw him doing string arrangements, for example, on anything like Tim’s level.
Does it matter? I think Beato was just making the point that if you have great ideas and you can get them out of your head and onto tape, then who cares how they got there? Music theory sure broadens your horizons, though. It gives you more options than just going on instinct. I’m sure it increases your chances of being a successful musician greatly.
I think of it this way-if Kurt had been born 20 years later, would he be playing grunge? Unlikely. Would he be one of the most successful artists in the world? Possibly but I wouldn’t bet on it. If Tim had been born twenty years later would he be writing music earning him honorary PhDs from musical conservatories? Sure he would.
It' worth remembering Kurt pretty much invented Grunge, it was just indie/punk before
I think Kurt would have become an acoustic wielding troubadour the vein of Neil Young...Kurt was never going to be Frank Zappa or Allan Holdsworth & it would be unfair to assess him in that context.
He wrote songs and had his own vocal thing going on...& I'm confident if he was still with us & making music he would have developed in that frameork...the unplugged show kind of gave us a possible alternate timeline with hiim & what he would have transitioned into
Absolutely brilliant. You know, I discovered Cardiacs later in my late twenties and early thirties. I grew up in my teens with nirvana and the like, so I guess I feel an influence for both. But like Tim Smith I'm a composer, Cobain wasn't really a composer as such. There's no wrong way to do things, he played off pure feeling and how he understands dynamics and melody. Smith though is closer to Elfman than cobain. There's a definite difference imo ❤️
Jon Poole is a great guy and a brilliant musician, playing and writing. He really deserves more laudation. Get over to The Dowling Poole and Lifesigns to do so.
Two guitarists I wish were still on earth.
People are only now catching up with the late Tim Smith and his awesome band, Cardiacs.
So it’s gonna sound like I’m nitpicking, but you missed something extremely important in “Smells Like Teen Spirit” so hear me out…
First off, I’ve never listened to Cardiacs so I had to check that track out. Thanks, pretty awesome song. I’m gonna have to listen to them more now (someone give me recommendations please).
In “Smells Like Teen Spirit” in the original key most agree that Kurt is playing F5, Bb5, Ab5, and Db5. Except, after the first set of chords in between the Bb5 and Ab5 he plays an all open string noise starting from the A string. This is important because mainly our ears are hearing the A tone out of all that noise since our ears pick up on the lowest note more predominantly. Hearing this tone which is played on a quick up beat helps lead us back down to Ab.
Does Kurt know he’s doing this? That’s actually debatable. Krist Novoselic on bass guitar is reinforcing this sound by also playing an A natural after the Bb to help walk down to Ab. Sometimes he plays G to lead into Ab. These are good use of leading tones. The same thing is done after the Db to bring us back into the F at the beginning of the riff. Guitar plays an all open string noise while bass plays a C to give us that more complete sounding V to I authentic cadence.
Does Nirvana know what they’re doing? Maybe not academically, but the tones are obviously important enough that they had to put them in there. A little known fact, Krist Novoselic played his bass tuned down a whole step (on the album) because he liked the timbre that it produced. He still played the open A which would now be fretted for him to play. If you listen closely he slides up quickly after hitting it most of the time since it’s on the 2nd fret and not just an open string. This gives proof of its use being less of a place holder and once again the sounds all seem to be very intentional regardless of whether they can give a name to the reason.
And to be honest, I apologize because I don’t think I understand the take away from this video because I would definitely agree that Nirvana has developed an intuition of what’s going on. In fact, I think it’s all intuition on their part. They just don’t have any formal training on music theory. They know how to build basic chords. They don’t necessarily know the function of the chords they use. Their understanding is through feel, from where the tones pull them, and It never sounds incoherent. Their songs aren’t proper, but they also aren’t basic. The structure is a little more advanced. Do they know that? No. But it’s like grammar. I don’t have to know about dangling participles or decide whether I’m using past or future tense to form a coherent sentence. Music itself is just another form of artistic communication.
Sorry to take you on that long ride. I don’t think you’re full of it, but I do agree with Rick Beato. Good job on your channel. I enjoyed your video. Keep it up.
Hello. I recommend "Sleep All Eyes Open" by Cardiacs. That is kind of their Nirvana moment. Kind of. You may or may not enjoy it...
If you do - here's lots more czcams.com/video/62s6xR4C1to/video.html
@@edphantom3096 thanks for the play list. I really enjoy it. I don’t know how I missed out on these guys. This is right up may alley. Cardiacs remind me of Oingo Boingo a lot. They would pair well with Mr. Bungle too.
@@patrickmckibben1932 Yeah they're like a UK Boingo on one level (of many). Mike Patton is a known fan!
I'm a composer (as in, I've scored films, short cartoons, done jingles and themes, orchestrated parts intricately, written parts for more than one person to play etc) I'm not classically or formally trained. Am self taught.
When I was in my mid twenties I became a bit dissilusioned with the singer songwriter thing, not sure where I fit in. But Tim Smith showed me that composing is a beautiful thing.
My point is Kurt Cobain is the reason I picked up a guitar at all, but take something like In Bloom which Beato actually dissected recently and you'll see Kurt uses all 12 notes of the chromatic scale in that which is a nice touch and certainly not by accident.
Kurt gets a lot of stick for simplicity at times but Beato makes a good case to show his strengths, whist Kurt isn't as musically adept as Tim Smith he absolutely was vital in his own right and his lasting impact on pop culture and music cannot be denied.
As for Tim, people can claim he didn't get his dues, but what would that be? He influenced Blur and Mr Bungle there's not many bands that can say that! Tim never wanted to be a household name or doing jingle remixes for fairy liquid. Right now Cardiacs are emerging more and more as a lasting influence on the 90s and beyond
As for "laying their fingers in a certain way" and stumbling on apparent brilliance? Well it didn't harm Andy Patridge, did it? He says that's how he'd often write if he hit a creative brick wall
I thought this was going to be a tute on writing hooks. Some years ago I gave a young music student some advice, 'learn all you can from your teacher, practice until your playing is really good and you have confidence in knowing your instrument, then throw everything away and start writing your own songs, your way,". I played with a great bass player years ago (theoretically solid with ideas and attitude), at times he would comment that what I played did not fit the key (structure) yet still worked. I found years ago that music is not a paint by numbers kind of thing. Great music contains a lot of implied direction and motion, yet can be shifted in the subtlest ways into other directions and colours as it unfolds. It is the reason blues and grass roots can still shine with minimal production. In my own famously unknown catalogue, some of my simpler tunes generate more views than my complicated pieces. Thanks for the post Alex.
I have no problem stating that Tim was THE greatest pop composer, period. Even as a FZ freak, I think Tim was even beyond Frank in his abilities to compose incredible psychedelic pop music.
Also, I've written multiple times to Rick Beato and Doug Helvering regarding the brilliance and genius of Tim/Cardiacs......cricket cricket. They might think its some lo-fi two-chord punk band....
Cool video! In your version of the Nirvana riff, you missed a bunch of the subtlety going on in the real riff as played on the album.
The Tim Smith riff is sweet and more technically ornate and interesting, but I think the simplicity and balance of the teen spirit riff is what cemented it in the collective cultural mind.
In general I think the boiled down simplicity of Kurt's song writing was one of the biggest factors of their success.
I would pick spellbound by siouxsie and the banshees for a good example of alternative guitar ideas and an insight into what wonderful possibilties await on the guitar.I saw Cardiacs in sheffield in mid 80s and they just blew me away;fantastic - sort of postpunkprog
very unique, Tim was a great guitarist I think a lot of people should acknowledge him as such.I can remember his set up -a westone guitar and a transister h/h amp , it sounded great in his hands,Cardiacs rocked sheffield Leadmill great gig>
Whats the deal with the delay on all the time?are u The Edge's son?
I gave up on Rick when more and more he embodied "old man yells at cloud "
Music is an art, and like all good art it thrives on emotion. Its the emotion and clever song writing apparent in the nirvana recordings . Logic can be a tool in music but creativity must take over to deliver something special. It has to deliver emotionally or else it is just a nice trick. And as we see with all great artists, jimi, the beatles, Van Halen, Bach, nirvana, their music is still loved long after their time
nice video! I like both riffs. they just do different things. :)
Thank you for this video. Subscribed! It is weird how the genius of Tim Smith is still ignored by musical blogers like Rick Beato just like musical press ignored him in 90s. Often I leave a comment about Cardiacs here and there recommending their music. So far only Ben Levin said he is aware of Cardiacs and love them.
I just don't think it's likely Rick's heard of them. He has been saying for years now he'd do a what makes this song great on Mr Bungle. But he hasn't. :/ I reckon he'd probably pick Retrovertigo Anwyay. So no big loss
@@TONE11111Also Justin Hawkins loves Cardiacs. But we need to introduce Beato to them!
..I agree with your paraphrase of what Rick said, and Cardiacs were phenominal.....
in an 8 minute video i think a 4 minute pre amble is too long.
I don't have a lot of time for Beato these days. I do have a lot of time for Cardiacs, and indeed Nirvana but I'm not sure what they really have to say about what Beato's point was here.
When Beato was saying they don't need to know what they were doing, I doubt he was saying they don't need to compose with intention, or that it's just guesswork. Which I think is a little bit how you are interpreting it here by talking about how the writers of each riff might have arrived at them.
As a composer who grew up self-taught and later had more formal education, it always slightly irritates me when people equate not knowing theory to guessing. I've never been a theory-based composer in that while I'm thinking creatively, and writing, I try to think as little as possible about the theory behind what I'm writing. And that's because I trust my ear, and I believe my ear is better and faster at music theory than I'll ever be trying to explain it out loud. I started writing music having no idea what I was doing but having a really strong ear for melody and harmony and understanding when what I was doing sounded how I like, and being able to make deliberate music choices in that way. And that's still basically my process, even though now I can go back over what I did and think 'ah, this is a tritone sub,' or 'here I'm borrowing from the lydian mode' later. That's nowhere near my head when I'm in the act of writing, and I'm very at peace with that, I don't think it affects my ability to trust my ears.
The most I use theory in writing is as a quick shortcut to solving musical problems. Let's say in the course of my writing I've strayed far from the home chord and I want to get back there, and nothing is springing immediately to mind - then I might think 'okay, well what's the V chord and how might I get there from here?' but that's about 2% of my overall process.
The point of all that text I guess is that I think Beato was just saying here that it doesn't matter if the writer knows all the terms for what they're doing, because he can explain it. And I agree with that, since the way that I work and the way I learned, I could never think of theory as anything other than a primarily descriptive tool, rather than a prescriptive one. It doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm doing, or that I'm stumbling around by accident to hit what I want. It just means that I have a very strong working relationship with my ear, and when it's just between me and my ear, the understanding of what I am doing operates on a very intuitive level.
Always felt that Bellyeye riff was a nod to Blur (perhaps specifically or too obviously There's No Other Way) who were themselves big Cardiacs fans. Sing To God is among other things the best least heard Britpop record.
This is funny because I've said before Bellyeye sort of reminds me of a early-ish blur song which keeps getting interrupted by an alien invasion.
Sorry to be too simplistic! But you’re looking at this in educated hindsight!
Great video, but you should mix the audio louder, had to put the video on full volume on my phone
Sorry to nitpick but you did talk about how important the G natural was to the riff when there isn't a G natural in that part. I am pretty sure that note is meant to be an F# not a G. Not 100% sure that it's an F# but it's definitely not a G.
Overall nice vid but i think you go too deep regarding ending second chord passage on G natural instead of g# - id assume that manually it was easier to him to make such puloff than to slide down one fret
I pretty much define rock musicians as people who aren't trained on an instrument or taught theory, but who have fantastic instincts for music.
You can bet your a$$ Jimmy Page & George Harrisson knew hat they were doing
@@nihilistlivesmatter5197 They both used very simple harmony--only rarely would they use a chord more complex than a minor seventh, and then it was intuitively, such as in the opening of _A Hard Day's Night_ or the second chord in the _Stairway_ progression. Page could read music, although probably not very well. Harrison never learned to read music. They had a ton of studio experience, so both were competent producers, esp. Page. Obviously, they were both versatile and highly inventive guitarists. We can say they knew what they were doing _within their sphere._
@@nevbarnes1034 I think you underestimate them & quite condescendingly so...'within their sphere' get over yourself they probably forgot more about harmony & chord contruction then you will ever know
@@nihilistlivesmatter5197 Then why did we never see it in their music? Why, for example, was Harrison unable to properly identify that chord in _A Hard Day's Night?_ (The Beatles leaned heavily on George Martin's classical expertise.)
Moreover, most successful artists are only competent within their sphere, so that is no sort of insult--trust me, I've had to work with classical musicians attempting to play rock. Did you ever see Menuhin attempt jazz with Stéphane Grappelli?
@@nevbarnes1034 the chord in hard days night is infamously quite contentious.....constructed by Lennon & Harrisson playing subtly different voicings & throwing a piano & Paul's Bass into the mix..there's two questions what 19/20 yo George played & the overall expressed harmony
Again you're generalising, unfairly & ignorantly so..we can throw Mick Ronson into the mix Bowie's 'rock' guitarist who's skilled arrangements went underthe radar...we can talk about Randy Rhoads or Fripp
Trying not to be rude but I don't think you have a clue about 'rock' musicians & are propogating the usual uninformed negative tropes
Oh! So you like one better than the other one. Also, turn your reverb off. It sounds shit. (Just my opinion).
I think this might be in danger of getting taken up as a "Cardiacs-vs-Nirvana" my-band-wins match. Both songs are on their way to different places, and give some indication of where that might be right away? ("Teen Spirit" is on its way to something more direct, though, where Bellyeye saves up some mystery in the lyrics.) I like them both.
Which is the more interesting? I don't know. Can I have both, please? (I think Dave Grohl might even say something like that, too, what with him being both a Nirvana and a Cardiacs fan. ;-) )
Rick definitely errs on the side of the idea that "the market is right" when it comes to most of his song selections (with the exception of Swervedriver, so I suppose it might just be that he has his own "indie banner to fly"?) I find I tend to only listen to the What Makes This Song Great (which he hasn't done for ages) if I feel like I might need some correcting. (e.g. Of all the Van Halen songs, choosing the one the market said was right: Jump - the one I always skipped on the CD back in the day. Heard what he had to say. Agreed in principle. Still bypass it though.)
Absolutely you can have both! :D Ok my thumbnail is a little clickbait-y haha (I'm just a small channel after all) and I admit I've gotten more mileage over the years out of Tim's work than Kurt's, but there's always room for both and what speaks to you most. I've always been fascinated by how different artists approach similar materials to create, and HT will hopefully be an exploration of that.
@@alexmcinsnax I've got a T-shirt with a daisy on it, and I don't have one with a baby swimming, so I think that says that right now I know I'm getting more mileage from Tim's music, too, if it comes down to that.
As for thumbnails, what good is a thumbnail that doesn't have some clickbait qualities to it? :D
I love the way Tim avoids being pinned down about things like genre (it's Cardiacs genre; and when it's Sea Nymphs, it's that genre; easy question to answer, actually), and I think he avoids letting a song get restricted to one particular emotion, either. That might be part of the secret. Always leave room for the song to develop into its own creature, just like it's wisest to let a band have its very own character.
The principle of "Keep It Simple, Stupid" is why Nirvana (and much of early '90s alt-rock) sounds good, imho - and, yes, it was "simple" compared to much of the '70s and '80s diddle-fest. The simple power of Teen Spirit's riff is clear when compared to the similar, and more musically adept, riff of Bellyeye; or even the similar riff of the Pixies Umass, or Boston's More Than A Feeling (...teehee). Nirvana's peculiar alchemy was based on distillation. It was Occam's Razor in action. Nirvana returned to a stripped down punk ethos, whereas Cardiacs were a post-punk mind-fuck, with knobs on. Both crackin' bands, in my opinion; but Nirvana channeled a raw something-or-other that captures the ears like few other bands.
It's ace this is the most popular video here but the comments here are extremely revealing
Great video! My hot take on this is a more qualitative one: that Cardiacs track instantly takes me back to very specific period of time - even just hearing the guitar, it’s just very much “of it’s time.” The Nirvana track, it feels timeless - and I can’t really put my finger as to “why,” but I think it’s because of what they chose to leave out. I feel like it’s always a risk with getting too ornate.
And I think that’s part of the reason why “Smells Like Teen Spirit” remains so iconic: the critics loved it, the people loved it and it is timeless.
It's a great point! Objects/songs/films with timeless appeal seem to tap into something special for any generation. The niche will always be there and find it's fans, but the things that endure seem collectively to have that "feels like it's always been there" quality. Thanks for watching!
It is possible that Smells Like Teen Spirit seems ‘timeless’ because we’ve been hearing it everywhere we go for thirty years. It’s a great song and the verse parts evoke a lot of nostalgia (that’s personal, of course).
The Cardiacs riff seems like it could have been written in the 70s or 90s. I can’t imagine someone putting it out today but the same could be said about the Nirvana riff.
This Cardiacs riff flows very naturally though, as if no ornamentation was there. Anyway, I don’t think it would’ve mattered if Tim Smith had chosen a more naked version for the riff. They had already been banned by one stupid magazine that doesn’t even exist anymore, and had too many stupid haters who were fans of more forgettable bands. Also, this Cardiacs track gets more and more elaborate on the way. A simpler version of that simple riff wouldn’t have made sense. And the track isn’t even the highest point in the album. Let’s face it. There is no big “mass” with the sensitiveness and taste it takes. I mean, they’re all watching Eurovision and listening to Måneskin now 😅 Even when an actually great band becomes very famous, most people become fans of the musicians’ lives, watch all the biopics, etc. but can’t tell a thing about their music. Like a half of The Beatles’ fans, who don’t get the difference between Love Me Do and A Day In The Life but still get at you if you just try to calm them down.
I would listen to the cardiacs one, but Spotify says no
I gave up on Beato when I replied to his "No one can write like Sting" video with "Well Gotye did it". He responded pretty much telling me I was too stupid to know the difference. Also his channel now clearly panders to celebrities. I know people who know him and his ego is well known.
Rick Beato is one of them people where you can just smell their ego right away.
Firstly, Jon wrote this riff.... secondly I saw Cardiacs 150 times and 70% of the shows were packed, so “struggled and suffered to prove…that his band existed.”...nope
An interesting compare and contrast.
I stopped watching ricks videos the day he posted a video about his awsome custom built DAW which in my mind was not fit for purpose, It seems like a petty thing but I knew that people would be watching the video and be likely to waste money that could be better spent (on instruments for example) and found myself wondering what his channel was even about.
I could deal with the name dropping and the consistent sales pitches for his merch, and the other stuff that comes when people over personalise their channels.
As for your compare and contrast between Cardiacs and Nirvana, initially I found it a bit unfair, I mean Nirvana are no where near the level of Cardiacs musically but I suppose that may have been a reason why you selected the two to begin with.
In defence of Nirvana (and possibly rick if this is the point he was going with his comment), the music of the cardiacs is clearly orchestrated... the level of forethought that goes in to music does not negate the artistic and emotional impact of alteratives with a lesser level of articulation or (for lack of a better word) skill.
If you were to pit a classical artist against an early 80 punk band they would both resonate with different audiences and for different reasons, the way their music would have been constructed and the resultant sound would both have merit, and the audience of both would likely favour their own.
Rick wants to sell, he doesn't bring anything new to the table.
No.
Maybe.
Rick Beato, took against Cardiacs when a group of people tried to get him to listen to them. He thought it was a promotional attempt... Lost a bit of respect for him over that.
Yeesh did he actually do that?
Your references to Beato are gratuitous, nothing to do with your main point. But as you brought him up: I think you misunderstood his opinion, which was that some people create great music without knowing music theory. That seems to me a generous viewpoint from someone who earns his living by teaching music theory, as well as being self evidently true. That's not the same as saying "don't bother learning theory". As to your main point, as a Cardiacs fan I believe that anything that draws attention to them (30 years too late) is to the good. I wish RB would do some videos on them.
😶
Next do "the 80s" by Killing Joke and "Come as you are" by Nirvana.
And The Damned's 'Life Goes On ' 😅
I'm a fan of Rick Beato, but I have never understood his worship of Nirvana and especially Kurt Cobain.
Did he try to sell anything?
For me, I find his general reverence for 90's guitar rock a bit baffling - as Alex mentions in this video. I like a lot of that stuff too, but he really promotes it as if it was the pinnacle of popular music.
I’m like that with Christopher Hitchens: a great mind and a vital commentator, but could be a boorish prick.
Might have something to do with the fact that Kurt was a natural songwriting genius. Just guessing.
@Benjamin K I don't really understand why anyone thinks that. I have learned to play pretty much every Nirvana song on guitar and they are all simple and repetitive. His vocal Melodies are the only area where I think he really shined
I'm very biased but great video
I'll always love Rick for championing Allan Holdsworth but Rick is a boomer (boomer here ;) with boomer sensibilities. You can't do the high school music teacher thing and explain rock with music theory bromides. There are literally hundreds of four-chord guitar riffs that follow the Teen Spirit antiphonal template (Space Cowboy, More Than a Feeling, to name just two out of zillions), which is derivative of them and not the other way around. You can explain how these riffs "work" with music theory, but in such a general way that it doesn't really say anything or lay out any principles. It's glorified personal taste.
But Nirvana isn't on the same planet with Cardiacs. The Bellyeye intro riff (which never repeats in the song) leads into an earworm verse (in 8+6) and multiple choruses in different meters. The main chorus in 6/4 with the quarter-note chords I'd bet my eye teeth is influenced by the last head section of National Health's The Bryden Two-Step (For Amphibians). Their first drummer, Mark Cawthra, auditioned for National Health as a teenager. Dave Stewart politely but firmly said no ;) Tim was famously influenced by some of the more well-known 70s prog bands, Genesis, Gong, Gentle Giant, Zappa, but also by the ragged edge of experimental Canterbury. He lifted the title of Nurses Whispering Verses from a Slapp Happy lyric. There are not many "straight" rock tunes in Cardiacs' discography.
Tim also famously said "it's all just tunes, innit?" He hated categorization and armchair music analysis from rock critics. Most true innovators chafe at music theory (cf. Allan Holdsworth, who invented his own concept of chord scales). So how would a music teacher, as Rick aspires to be, benefit anybody by breaking down the mother of all cliched chord movements? To what? Help guitarists write tunes as vacuous and derivative as Teen Spirit?
No music teacher made Tim Smith or Allan Holdsworth Tim Smith or Allan Holdsworth.
Is your argument that Nirvana didnt know what they were doing? Because their riffs were more simple than eccentric and boundary-pushing, genius act Cardiacs? Or because Kurt learned from imitating the Beatles and his contemporaries rather than learning theory or geting a Doctorate in music?
If someone crocheted a sock by learning how to do it from someone else without learning the names of each stitch and technique did they make a sock by accident?
You accuse Rick Beato of being name droppy, but why are you bringing up Cardiacs? Is it to show how knowledgeable in obscure acts you are. How discerning you are? Look out ladies! This guy doesn't listen to Home Depot rock!
Academic knowledge tells you nothing about a persons musical craft. Youve heard the saying, "the difference between a baker and a chef is the baker follows a recipe and a chef composes a recipe through learned skill"? Music Theory is academic knowledge. Its required for academics. It is not required for musicians. Music theory is trying to interpret what musicians are doing.
Music created by recipe of theory is almost always poor music.
A more accurate paraphrasing of Beato is, "it doesnt matter if [musicians] know what they are doing [in terms of theory]. I know what they are doing [in terms of theory]."
You are conflating doing something without academic knowledge and doing something by accident. That's idiocy.
Stop using the silly 2nd camera/side shot. It has no purpose.
Please stop changing the camera angle, it's very distracting.