9:57 - The speed you set the bottom clutch to should be: engage_bottom = disengage_top * ratio disengage_bottom = engage_top * ratio (Or divide by ratio, depends on how you calculate the ratio so I hope you get the point.) By having the ratio 50 higher than these values kAN basically made a dead spot where 2 the torque is going through 2 sets of gears which, if clutches had infinite torque, would lock the gearbox... Good job xD If you want smoother shifts you could make the spacing between when it is engaged vs disengaged larger. 16:47 - kAN is just doing such weird stuff with loading the extensions xD... If you want to build a clutch like this, while still in a world just hit escape, click "script mods" and enable both BuilderToolExt and PartCollision. From BuilderToolExt you just need to uncheck the only checked box (prevent interpenetration) and then I think you can close it again (but don't quote me on the closing the window part, I personally always keep it open because having prevent interpenetration is actually very nice if you are building normally). For PartCollision you need the window open and hitting "T" will toggle collision for whatever part ur looking at. Not sure why kAN had so much trouble with it but here is the explanation of how to do it. 21:50 - Regarding reversing clutches, as far as I understand how they work is they have an input and an output side. Clutches determine wheter they are engaged solely by the input side. Meaning that what kAN did by reversing the clutches was really just reading the output speed of the transmission instead of inverting when the clutch is engaged. On another note, RPM is measured world-relative to the world. However fast the output of a centrifugal clutch is spinning has no influence on when it's engaged. (Which is I think where kAN's misunderstanding came from.) Just think about it, if the engine is stationary and it was acting as a normal clutch, you'd still want the car to be able to roll freely if the tires spin... 28:20 - Just tune the brakes man... Gonna be hard to lock those rear wheels if they don't put out enough torque to lock the wheels in the first place. Then again, how much torque a brake can apply depends on speed too, so maybe just put extra sets of brakes on it. Some weight would help a lot too as you said. Just change the material to sth heavy I guess. That being said, I think the wheels have terrible side to side friction as well. General comment on how the transmission works, basically if you consider the path through the transmission the power can take we have: Gear 1: in ------| | | |------|------|------ out Gear 2: in ------|------| | | |------|------ out Gear 3: in ------|------|------| | | |------ out Don't mind my bad ascii art. Verticals are the gears, horizontals represent axels and active clutches. You can see that by this chart even if the gears are still engaged, they are just freespinning whatever is on the other side.
When retrofitting brakes on the front axle, in real cars, it's regulated so that 70% of the braking force is applied to the front axle and 30% to the rear axle. This helps the car remain stable during braking and prevents it from skidding.
@@tqit3173 There may be slight variations due to weight distribution, but it's always the case that the front brakes more forcefully because the car compresses on the front axle during braking, thereby putting more load on it while the rear axle is relieved.
Centrifugal clutches exist in either direction. 2 simple examples: An small cart, which at low speeds does not couple the engine to the shaft, and then when the engine spins fast enough it will couple to the wheels and move the cart. A clutched yoyo, where when the yoyo is spinning fast enough, it just spins, but as it slows down the spinning yoyo is coupled to the shaft to make the string wind up. So both make perfect sense.
you also set the engine brake effect to max torgue so basically block the wheels when you get off throttle making the rear slide out. i think thats the gremlin haunting the build.
An Australian guy has worked out how to build a constant mesh gear box that even has reverse. This was years ago. He said he was talking with companies that make heavy equipment. I don't remember the exact design, but I do know it has a small shaft with gears that control the speed of other gears. By rotating it at the correct speed it would neutralist the output shaft speed.
now you got the steering geometry and the gearbox. now you need breaks and a good diff. you're really not stopping for the corners. but i can imagine how bad the grip of those tires is.
that's a pretty cool and quite a mechanical concept, when I made my autotrans I went with an RPM governor - 2 free difs set in a way to perform add and subtraction on RPMs with 2 centri clutches to operate it, spins one way when low, other way when high and doesn't inbetween, it's output going straight to a typical "gearblocks manual shifter". It's advantages are that it is very efficient (not quite 100% like yours lmao but it requires less than 30 torque unts to run at max rpm) thus outperforming weird CVT wannabees and it can perfectly keep the engine at the powerband thus outperforming spring loaded autotrans and yours. It's disadvantages however are of course huge size and a bit of wobble due to... lack of ressistance lmao, still need to figure out how to dampen it
I made a 3-speed gearbox using stepper motors kan... It was super easy and took about 2 hrs to complete it you need a sliding shaft that slides with the help of rackgear setup.
Few Ideas, - IFS, IRS, posi or lockers for diffs, AWD and full brakes. Beyond that full Ackerman, adjustable toe in/out, caster/camber and suspension. That should keep ya busy for a while. Then there is always tank tracks, oO.
If you want to go crazier and make this even more compact, you could mash the gears inside the Input axle of the Clutch using Interpenetration and NoCollision which will save you 1 stud per gear, Thanks for the video and the help from Blueflame, now i can start building Automatic Gearboxes too :D
And yes I would expect a inverse centrifugal clutch would work you could just clamp on the center and then as the RPMs pick up the release from the center hub instead of as you would expect extending outward into an outer hub
technically in reality, centrifugal clutches COULD work like in the game, but it would require a lot of tuning to get it right, for example, as soon as the output reaches the locking speed, the second gear would lock in and you could spin it even faster. so instead of output having the casing, the output would have the friction disks, which would allow second gear to lock in when the output is at a desired rpm.
Think of the clutch release at a higher RPM as similar to a centrifugal governor. As rpm increases in the engine, the spinning weights pull the power back. The clutch is using the weights to pull the clutch apart against a preloaded spring.
I would also attach a cross beam to the axle running into the diff to help hold it into place, because as you were driving it, I noticed it was tweaking to the side, idk if that would have any effect on the driving, but better to be safe than sorry.
I could definitely see where having the engage being lower would work, for the fact that it allows you a moment in time to disengage and engage into a different gear, basically one you disenge one gear, it switches to the next gear, one it reaches a certain point, it disengages at a high enough speed, that it allows the near gear to catch, and then so on.
9:30 - torque limit would go decresing from 1st gear to last gear, ideally you'd want to set to it kinda shifts down at ramps so it has force instead of speed. Ajust as necesary, someone smarter than me probably have a good equation for it.
A fun challenge would be putting in a reverse gear that you can toggle on and off then just use one dedicated throttle input for the whole thing and have a dedicated breaking input like in a real car. The triggers on the controller would be perfect for both since they're more of an analog input and can easily control how much you give it.
When it comes to braking, you don't want the wheels to lock up. When the tires skid, they have no traction and thus are worse at helping you stop. You need suspension, more weight, also like you said, 4 wheel braking. Idk what the tire situation is like in this game, but if you can get wider tires that would definitely help all the way around.
they do have traction when they skid - the issue is in static vs kinetic friction. static friction is higher than kinetic friction. when a wheel is turning at the same rate at which the vehicle is moving on the ground, you are using static friction. one the tire starts sliding, you are using kinetic friction, greatly reducing stopping power. Additionally, you lose a lot of the directional stability afforded to you by the treads themselves, making it easier for the tires to slide sideways. And if you are talking about real life, you also have the issue of burning off your treads due to the intense heat that amount of friction produces.
I guess the culmination of these videos needs to be a race car with full suspension, steering rack, all-wheel drive system, gearbox, and transfer case/LSD.
talking about reversing the numbers, wouldn't it be possible to just mount the centrifugal clutches in the other direction? (ingame, the silver part on right, and black part on left) It should give you same results without reversing numbers.
In real life, this would probably work by having something that grips the axle via springs and when it spins up lets go of the axle? Instead of gripping the outside when fast enough, do the opposite.
on the test frame, your differential keeps not meshing when you brake hard or accelerate hard, you might want to reinforce the power feed axial to meditate that.
kAN, I don't know if it matters at all, but the gear going from the transmission to the diff was suffering slip due to axle wobble from not adding supports.
Weren't there clutch options with gears incorporated into them? If they have centrifugal ones like that and come in the right sizes, wouldn't that be easier than messing with all the clipping stuff for making a compact transmission?
CVTs arent the same thing as automatic transmissions. CVTs use two tapered pulleys that get wider and skinnier to change the ratio continously. Automatic transmissions select individual gears based on inputs automatically.
There are a wide variety of CVTs. A simple one is two tapered pulleys, but that is just one. Another simple one is effectively the engine shaft is split into 2 clutches/friction disks which drive the output at different ratios. To have the lowest ratio, the side with the low ratio couples fully while the side with the high ratio doesn't couple at all; with the opposite happening for the highest ratio. In between, you have different amounts of friction pressing the discs together so there is a different amount of engagement between each. e.g. you can have each applying 50%, to have a ratio around the middle. This will likely result in excessive wear, and requires the clutches to smoothly change how much friction is applied over a wide range of velocities, instead of like a normal centrifugal clutch which just engage or disengages quite quickly.
I made a car with independent suspension for all four wheels and toggleable 4WD, but I have an issue where the front end keeps bouncing up and down while applying power, which gets worse with more weight and speed. I tried adjusting suspension settings from min to max and everything in between, including doubling the suspension, as well as adjusting motor torque settings, but nothing fixes it aside from activating the 4WD, which only makes it slightly bearable... Anyone got advice? I'd gladly take any you might have.
I don't think this is a transmission in the typical sense. The typical transmission is intended to provide a high range of output speed based on a low range of input speed. What this transmission does is create three different speed ranges based on the input. For example 0-300 input is 0-150 output, 300-600 input is 300-600 output, and 600-1000 input is 1200-2000 output, while a typical transmission would have 0-1000 as input for all three ranges, and 0-500, 0-1000, and 0-2000, as output for each range and the transmission shifts as the engine leaves its optimal power band.
I have but without sensors you can't control the timing of the piston engine very easily... currently the only way to toggle pistons on and off is with player controls. If the dev adds a way to trigger devices with other devices then a piston engine would definitely be something to do.
Doesn't really work like a transmission though. You're not resetting it to the power curve of the engine and dropping the RPM of the engine. More like a RPM range extender or something
eagerly waiting for the long video where kan makes a fully featured car with brakes, individual suspension, proper steering, awd differential, automatic 6 speed gearbox, carbody, lights, speed gauges, and set a sub 50 second lap from scratch.
9:57 - The speed you set the bottom clutch to should be:
engage_bottom = disengage_top * ratio
disengage_bottom = engage_top * ratio
(Or divide by ratio, depends on how you calculate the ratio so I hope you get the point.)
By having the ratio 50 higher than these values kAN basically made a dead spot where 2 the torque is going through 2 sets of gears which, if clutches had infinite torque, would lock the gearbox... Good job xD
If you want smoother shifts you could make the spacing between when it is engaged vs disengaged larger.
16:47 - kAN is just doing such weird stuff with loading the extensions xD... If you want to build a clutch like this, while still in a world just hit escape, click "script mods" and enable both BuilderToolExt and PartCollision. From BuilderToolExt you just need to uncheck the only checked box (prevent interpenetration) and then I think you can close it again (but don't quote me on the closing the window part, I personally always keep it open because having prevent interpenetration is actually very nice if you are building normally). For PartCollision you need the window open and hitting "T" will toggle collision for whatever part ur looking at.
Not sure why kAN had so much trouble with it but here is the explanation of how to do it.
21:50 - Regarding reversing clutches, as far as I understand how they work is they have an input and an output side. Clutches determine wheter they are engaged solely by the input side. Meaning that what kAN did by reversing the clutches was really just reading the output speed of the transmission instead of inverting when the clutch is engaged. On another note, RPM is measured world-relative to the world. However fast the output of a centrifugal clutch is spinning has no influence on when it's engaged. (Which is I think where kAN's misunderstanding came from.) Just think about it, if the engine is stationary and it was acting as a normal clutch, you'd still want the car to be able to roll freely if the tires spin...
28:20 - Just tune the brakes man... Gonna be hard to lock those rear wheels if they don't put out enough torque to lock the wheels in the first place. Then again, how much torque a brake can apply depends on speed too, so maybe just put extra sets of brakes on it. Some weight would help a lot too as you said. Just change the material to sth heavy I guess. That being said, I think the wheels have terrible side to side friction as well.
General comment on how the transmission works, basically if you consider the path through the transmission the power can take we have:
Gear 1:
in ------| | |
|------|------|------ out
Gear 2:
in ------|------| |
| |------|------ out
Gear 3:
in ------|------|------|
| | |------ out
Don't mind my bad ascii art. Verticals are the gears, horizontals represent axels and active clutches.
You can see that by this chart even if the gears are still engaged, they are just freespinning whatever is on the other side.
Sorry I didn't quite get all of that. Could you explain that one more time?
Real
This comment might have been written on a hurry but thanks for your service
Told you Blueflame would leave an epic reply :D
@@kANGaming its weekend stop the math
When retrofitting brakes on the front axle, in real cars, it's regulated so that 70% of the braking force is applied to the front axle and 30% to the rear axle. This helps the car remain stable during braking and prevents it from skidding.
*when its front heavy
nope@@tqit3173
@@tqit3173 There may be slight variations due to weight distribution, but it's always the case that the front brakes more forcefully because the car compresses on the front axle during braking, thereby putting more load on it while the rear axle is relieved.
@@warcookie3445not always, just extremely common, most model of gt3 use 49% F, 51% R. Which i find quite weird.
When my car brakes the back lifts up and it spins fast untill it stops
Centrifugal clutches exist in either direction.
2 simple examples:
An small cart, which at low speeds does not couple the engine to the shaft, and then when the engine spins fast enough it will couple to the wheels and move the cart.
A clutched yoyo, where when the yoyo is spinning fast enough, it just spins, but as it slows down the spinning yoyo is coupled to the shaft to make the string wind up.
So both make perfect sense.
I thought about the yo-yo as well.
A optional VR game-mode would take this game to another level
The way ur going about this learning and experimenting gets me thinking ur end goal would be a drift car.
you also set the engine brake effect to max torgue so basically block the wheels when you get off throttle making the rear slide out. i think thats the gremlin haunting the build.
An Australian guy has worked out how to build a constant mesh gear box that even has reverse. This was years ago. He said he was talking with companies that make heavy equipment. I don't remember the exact design, but I do know it has a small shaft with gears that control the speed of other gears. By rotating it at the correct speed it would neutralist the output shaft speed.
Anyone else notice at 22:59 kAN locks one of the centrifugal clutches?
wow so much simple with the clutches than the centrifugal govener and precicely calibrated springs I needed back in 2017
Thanks for using the follow cam for once. Much easier to watch
To join axels you can use a small cylinder instead of connectors to save some space. Though, if you're using no-clip, it doesn't matter.
This is exatly what I always wanted! A game where you can build your own torque converter automatic transmissions and put it in cars! YESSS!
now you got the steering geometry and the gearbox.
now you need breaks and a good diff.
you're really not stopping for the corners.
but i can imagine how bad the grip of those tires is.
that's a pretty cool and quite a mechanical concept, when I made my autotrans I went with an RPM governor - 2 free difs set in a way to perform add and subtraction on RPMs with 2 centri clutches to operate it, spins one way when low, other way when high and doesn't inbetween, it's output going straight to a typical "gearblocks manual shifter". It's advantages are that it is very efficient (not quite 100% like yours lmao but it requires less than 30 torque unts to run at max rpm) thus outperforming weird CVT wannabees and it can perfectly keep the engine at the powerband thus outperforming spring loaded autotrans and yours. It's disadvantages however are of course huge size and a bit of wobble due to... lack of ressistance lmao, still need to figure out how to dampen it
I made a 3-speed gearbox using stepper motors kan... It was super easy and took about 2 hrs to complete it
you need a sliding shaft that slides with the help of rackgear setup.
Few Ideas, - IFS, IRS, posi or lockers for diffs, AWD and full brakes. Beyond that full Ackerman, adjustable toe in/out, caster/camber and suspension. That should keep ya busy for a while.
Then there is always tank tracks, oO.
He's already done toe and camber, and iirc camber had zero effect (likely because it's not modeled)
If you want to go crazier and make this even more compact, you could mash the gears inside the Input axle of the Clutch using Interpenetration and NoCollision which will save you 1 stud per gear, Thanks for the video and the help from Blueflame, now i can start building Automatic Gearboxes too :D
And yes I would expect a inverse centrifugal clutch would work you could just clamp on the center and then as the RPMs pick up the release from the center hub instead of as you would expect extending outward into an outer hub
technically in reality, centrifugal clutches COULD work like in the game, but it would require a lot of tuning to get it right, for example, as soon as the output reaches the locking speed, the second gear would lock in and you could spin it even faster. so instead of output having the casing, the output would have the friction disks, which would allow second gear to lock in when the output is at a desired rpm.
Think of the clutch release at a higher RPM as similar to a centrifugal governor. As rpm increases in the engine, the spinning weights pull the power back. The clutch is using the weights to pull the clutch apart against a preloaded spring.
I would also attach a cross beam to the axle running into the diff to help hold it into place, because as you were driving it, I noticed it was tweaking to the side, idk if that would have any effect on the driving, but better to be safe than sorry.
I could definitely see where having the engage being lower would work, for the fact that it allows you a moment in time to disengage and engage into a different gear, basically one you disenge one gear, it switches to the next gear, one it reaches a certain point, it disengages at a high enough speed, that it allows the near gear to catch, and then so on.
For a awd set up you can tern the engine transmission sideways then put a open diff with a drive shaft going to the front and back diffs
@corbineugene7002 Turn
I love these gearblocks videos because we get to see kAN geek out over mechanical systems and then suck at driving them lol
9:30 - torque limit would go decresing from 1st gear to last gear, ideally you'd want to set to it kinda shifts down at ramps so it has force instead of speed.
Ajust as necesary, someone smarter than me probably have a good equation for it.
A fun challenge would be putting in a reverse gear that you can toggle on and off then just use one dedicated throttle input for the whole thing and have a dedicated breaking input like in a real car. The triggers on the controller would be perfect for both since they're more of an analog input and can easily control how much you give it.
Got an idea for you to try for the cvt you could try using the peak torque setting to allow it to slip and have another one set for higher
When it comes to braking, you don't want the wheels to lock up. When the tires skid, they have no traction and thus are worse at helping you stop. You need suspension, more weight, also like you said, 4 wheel braking. Idk what the tire situation is like in this game, but if you can get wider tires that would definitely help all the way around.
they do have traction when they skid - the issue is in static vs kinetic friction. static friction is higher than kinetic friction. when a wheel is turning at the same rate at which the vehicle is moving on the ground, you are using static friction. one the tire starts sliding, you are using kinetic friction, greatly reducing stopping power. Additionally, you lose a lot of the directional stability afforded to you by the treads themselves, making it easier for the tires to slide sideways.
And if you are talking about real life, you also have the issue of burning off your treads due to the intense heat that amount of friction produces.
Yeah, BlueFlame is pretty darn smart. Made a load of SM logic things.
Lol sounds like a jet engine
Bread
Bread
the bread is a lie
Daerb
Bread
Raw toast
A rock crawler or offroader type vehicle would be really cool in Gearblocks.
I’ve been waiting for suspension for a while now
You can rnable brakes at eaxh wheel by looking at wheel and changing "part behavior"
Hi
Can you build transmition with speed sensor ?
0to25 first gear
26-50 2gear
the transmission you built can easily be expanded to have more gears and add a reversing gear
Can't wait to see Kan build up a fully functional sports car
I guess the culmination of these videos needs to be a race car with full suspension, steering rack, all-wheel drive system, gearbox, and transfer case/LSD.
talking about reversing the numbers, wouldn't it be possible to just mount the centrifugal clutches in the other direction? (ingame, the silver part on right, and black part on left) It should give you same results without reversing numbers.
0:13 I definitely didn't hear CVT.
In real life, this would probably work by having something that grips the axle via springs and when it spins up lets go of the axle? Instead of gripping the outside when fast enough, do the opposite.
A fluid coupler?
Yes, like a yoyo with a clutch.
I don't need a degree in engineering as I can just watch kAN play Gearblocks! 🤓👍
@kangaming, I have a question what would be better to get out of the two base on what you have played, gearblocks or plasma.
this would be cool to be put into a rock crawler or something. Also I love your vids kAN
on the test frame, your differential keeps not meshing when you brake hard or accelerate hard, you might want to reinforce the power feed axial to meditate that.
kAN, I don't know if it matters at all, but the gear going from the transmission to the diff was suffering slip due to axle wobble from not adding supports.
Weren't there clutch options with gears incorporated into them? If they have centrifugal ones like that and come in the right sizes, wouldn't that be easier than messing with all the clipping stuff for making a compact transmission?
The crowd gear is flexing to the diff
put all of the upgraded parts together once you upgrade more stuff and make perfectly tuned car
you should see what happens if you delete the shaft to connect the tire and try with different things
We need more kan and railroads online. Thanks.
The First you have shown isnt that Bad, you Just need to Put another axle in with another 1:1 to the Output axle
you should maybe do vids where you show workshop builds
sometimes i forget that your a mechanical engineer if remember correctly, then you do stuff like this
CVTs arent the same thing as automatic transmissions. CVTs use two tapered pulleys that get wider and skinnier to change the ratio continously. Automatic transmissions select individual gears based on inputs automatically.
There are a wide variety of CVTs.
A simple one is two tapered pulleys, but that is just one.
Another simple one is effectively the engine shaft is split into 2 clutches/friction disks which drive the output at different ratios.
To have the lowest ratio, the side with the low ratio couples fully while the side with the high ratio doesn't couple at all; with the opposite happening for the highest ratio.
In between, you have different amounts of friction pressing the discs together so there is a different amount of engagement between each.
e.g. you can have each applying 50%, to have a ratio around the middle.
This will likely result in excessive wear, and requires the clutches to smoothly change how much friction is applied over a wide range of velocities, instead of like a normal centrifugal clutch which just engage or disengages quite quickly.
You only need to of the clutch’s
You should try make a FWD vehicle with suspension
cheerios to all creative minds! q=D
for the full car pleaaaase make a drift car, with the front steering angle as wide as RC drift cars got them.
I made a car with independent suspension for all four wheels and toggleable 4WD, but I have an issue where the front end keeps bouncing up and down while applying power, which gets worse with more weight and speed. I tried adjusting suspension settings from min to max and everything in between, including doubling the suspension, as well as adjusting motor torque settings, but nothing fixes it aside from activating the 4WD, which only makes it slightly bearable... Anyone got advice? I'd gladly take any you might have.
more kit builds
Can't you do the same thing with clutched gears?
I don't think this is a transmission in the typical sense. The typical transmission is intended to provide a high range of output speed based on a low range of input speed. What this transmission does is create three different speed ranges based on the input. For example 0-300 input is 0-150 output, 300-600 input is 300-600 output, and 600-1000 input is 1200-2000 output, while a typical transmission would have 0-1000 as input for all three ranges, and 0-500, 0-1000, and 0-2000, as output for each range and the transmission shifts as the engine leaves its optimal power band.
have you ever thought of making a piston engine like you have in scrap mechanic
I have but without sensors you can't control the timing of the piston engine very easily... currently the only way to toggle pistons on and off is with player controls. If the dev adds a way to trigger devices with other devices then a piston engine would definitely be something to do.
@@kANGaming or if you have a simple timer you could make the engine work at a constant rpm, for proof of concept.
@@kANGaming i meant make a rotating and sliding crank shaft and piston but i like your thought too
really if the slider bar would have just flipped when you crossed them over it woulda made more sense to you
why does the song remind me of like, a candyland or smth
Auto go brr
What happened to the terra tech worlds?
This sounds an awful lot like Comet 2spd mini bike "transmission"
Annnnd another game that makes me wanna spend 2 months pay on a PC 😅🙃 great video though!
🌞
People have been telling you to do this in the comments for quite a while
Why do you need a gearbox if its powered by electric motors?
Is there speed sensors in this game?
Doesn't really work like a transmission though. You're not resetting it to the power curve of the engine and dropping the RPM of the engine. More like a RPM range extender or something
Yo
Hello Can you build piston engine in this game
don't give up mr kAN 😂 *just kidding lol
Should pin Blueflame's comment
More
I made a 22 speed out of this
35m
steering angles are way to high
Make a helicopter
Noo
10th comment
fifth
eagerly waiting for the long video where kan makes a fully featured car with brakes, individual suspension, proper steering, awd differential, automatic 6 speed gearbox, carbody, lights, speed gauges, and set a sub 50 second lap from scratch.
I think Kan, you would enjoy the game "neon noodles" its a logic based puzzler, I think you would do well at it