One thing that I really appreciate about your podcasting style is how you never lost the 'we should do a podcast' conversational style of doing a podcast.
I feel like some of the weaker combos are more powerful as plan b or plan c. You don’t usually have a deck where the main game plan is bomberman. But a deck playing Breach/Brainstorm can slot in a Salvagers for an extra wincon. And I think that’s a great place for them to have power. Lean combos that may not be as fast, but also share the same cards as more powerful combos.
Good video but I think youre underrating chain of smog + witherbloom. It gets around more stax than bomberman. It gets around graveyard hate, activated ability hate, and artifact hate. It also doesnt need to worry about having an outlet with no hand since it just drains the table unlike bomberman which needs a commander as an outlet or some other way to use the mana without using your hand.
49:50 This is exactly how it works and now I can't get the image out of my head of someone swinging the Doom Blade at Devoted Druid and it goes full Transformers into a car to deflect the Doom Blade.
You guys really have something special. Your enthusiasm is really contagious. You guys make better content than the command zone with a fraction of their budget.
Was really good to hear Food chain stay in the middle, finishing my Rocco list today and just picked up my etched food chain the other day so I’m ready to watch it win some games!
I build a prossh food chain deck, and man that was the fastest win I’ve ever had I think. My friend who has been playing longer than me said “yup, that’s a prossh deck” as we shuffled up for another game 😂. Food chain wins games. Have fun bro
One of my favorite unusual combos that, I think, deserves more consideration, is Isocron w/ a tutor that fetches Nexus of Fate. (Can be Mystic Tutor, Vamp Tutor, Tainted Pact, and kiiiiinda Demonic Conult.) So, you cast Iso, imprint the tutor, grab Nexus, cast Nexus. If the tutor is of the top-of-the library type, you need to draw it (like doomsday almost). You can wait a round around the table, though that’s risky, and endstep it. Nexus gets shuffled away and on your next turn, you do it again. (If it’s a top of the library Tutor, you’ll naturally draw it as part of your extra turn) From there you can win in any number of ways. If your commander is a big beater, you punch people to death, or you just draw through your library and win with whatever Rubgoldberg setup you fancy. The pro of this is that your card quality is pretty high. Iso is a good card, and tutors are always played. Nexus, while a poor early game draw, can be a strong tempo piece as extra turns are always good. It also can sidestep many stax pieces, notably Rule of Law. It’s also a two-card combo, technically. Down side is that the whole thing costs 4 + 5UU so 11 mana total. The cost can be split at a higher risk. It also folds to Artifact hate, which is common. If Iso gets removed, that tutor is in exile, which feels bad. It’s also a little finicky, with top-of-the library tutors. A way to draw the card would speed the combo up exponentially. Tainted Pact, although, is cool, as you immediately put it to hand. Consult is super risky, you need to be sure you can close the game in as fee extra turns as possible. Still, as a mid-range style wincon with as few as one color, the framework is really strong. It dodges stax and can be tough to interact with. The combo works alone, but the more you add to it, the better it gets.
So I've finally gotten to play live commander games after 20 year absence. I really love cedh and this show has helped me tremendously! I'm still getting good at keeping up with tons of triggers and keeping mindful of certain cards in play that hem me up constantly and I forget they are there. Traveling for work makes live games hard but I get to play in commander groups all over the country so all the different players help alot. Can't wait to build one of yalls decks soon!
I do like this, pretty solid. I do think that people hold onto old combos too much and can't let go in their mind that they are tier 2 or worse currently.
@therealax6 it's multipurpose. I use it for both. To dig deeper and deeper to find what I need and then continue the combo. Most people freak when I drop it because they are so used to it being a win, until I reassure them that's not what I'm doing. Only until I present a loop of making infinite copies of thassa do I win and they realize it's too late. Too many times I've played this exact combo and won. Have a great positive win% with orvar at my LGS who tries ro compete against me in cedh lol
My favourite way to stop a Thoracle win as of yet is Angel's Grace in my Abzan Stax. Love the face from smile to disbelief after the demonic consultation has resolved and they see the Angel's Grace go on the stack XD
one of my fav combos, though not played in cedh is goblin sharpshooter + splinter twin (ideally with a haste enabler to go off in 1 turn, but people that dont know it usually don't worry about a random goblin sharpshooter lol). here's how it works: there needs to be any 1 toughness creature in play, yours, your opponents, doesnt matter as long as you can target it. cast splinter twin on sharpshooter - tap sharpshooter to create copy with twin - use copy to kill a random 1 toughness creature -> both sharpshooters untap. tap 1st shooter again to create another copy, use 2nd shooter to ping opponent, use 3rd shooter to kill itself, untapping the first 2, repeat until everyone is dead :) i play it in a high-power krenko deck with great results and the sharpshooter also is nice utility with other cards, like basilisk collar to work as an opponent creature boardwipe for example.
The meta joke about taking a break and looking into the comment section for rules analysis brings me here to mention that you guys are great and I think you were correct that the spell *fizzles* for lack of a legal target.
I think Underworld Breach + Grinding Station + any mana neutral artifact would have been worth mentioning, but it is very similar to Underworld Breach + LED + Brain Feeze
@@maxsternburg1956 I would disagree, because I would value the combo being easier to assemble more than you. Its a much easier to assemble combo, as most decks run 10+ mana neutral (or positive) artifacts and your usually aiming to mulligan into them anyway. All you have to do is run an outlet in you deck to win.
@@Threads_Of_Fate yeah I see your point, I still think brain freeze is significantly more powerful personally. There is also a huge difference between exiling all the cards you get off the mill from station, verses exiling most of your library with brainfreeze and protecting yourself with coutnerspells and such that are also in your graveyard
Another good point is that dockside enables food chain. 3 opposing artifacts and/or enchantments and dockside gets you the mana for food chain and dockside itself gives you the creature to exile to food chain for Squee or scourge
One of my favorite hulk piles is torch courier+incubation druid+vigean graftmage. Graftmage gives Druid a +1/+1 counter from the graft trigger. Sac the courier to give the Druid haste. Tap Druid for 3 blue mana, use 2 of it to untap with graftmage's ability, repeat infinitely. After infinite blue mana, you can filter into what ever other colors you need.
Also, I think witherbloom is better than bomberman, because you don't need another outlet and witherbloom apprentice is strong in a format based around ad naus. The incremental drain helps power up your ad naus while hindering your opponents' ad naus.
one of my fave combo's i built a deck around is: blisterpit gremlin (1 mana) + retraction helix (or banishing knack, both also 1 mana), + any mana positive mana rock eg mana crypt (0 mana), mox opal switched on, mox amber with commander, sol ring, grim monolith etc, now with infinite mana (colorless if u don't have any rocks that tap for any color), infinite storm count & cast triggers. ideally with mana crypt is infinite mana for 2 mana. Works the same as hullbreakker horror/tidespout tyrant combos but with untap triggers & waaaaay less mana required. Blisterspit gremlin's effect is usually rated at 3 mana in the form of jeskai ascendency, mirran spy, intruder alarm & the many other creatures that untap themselves on NONCREATURE casts.
Protean Hulk is of the same cloth as hermit druid. They are both 1 card win conditions. The "combo" is the memory's journey into thoracle or the hulk pile itself.
Devoted Druid/Swift Reconfiguration is the prime combo in Tayam, Luminous Enigma but not sure how much cedh he sees. But that is my pet deck. love that deck so much
I finally won a game with Chain of Smog/ witherbloom Apprentice. It was hilarious because I was getting manhandled and finally drew my 4th swamp to tutor for my chain of Smog and won with 3 life left
Idk if I missed discussion on this but Food Chain is a priority combo in Atraxa Grand Unifier, allowing you to generate infinite mana and repeat cast Atraxa to draw your whole deck and win off Thoracle
Devoted Druid + Swift Reconfiguration actually dodges Enchantment removal since you can always just activate the Devoted Druid again. There is no spot where the enchantment is on the table where it can be dealt with before you get inf mana. It avoiding summoning sickness too (vehicles dont care about it) is also pretty sweet.
7:00 you can switch LED with Dockside Extortionist too if it generates enough treasures to recast itself + brain freeze/thoracle and you have a way to sac it to recast it I assume? I know it's a small extra loop, to cast carrion feeder or viscra seer or what ever.
Animate Dead has a great line with Abdel that you can play through a RoL. I play it in Raffine with Vile Entomber: have Entomber on the battlefield, having discarded or tutored for abdel with the entomber to your gy; Animate Dead the Abdel to start the loop, exiling Entomber too; (don't even need to exile your lands) just entomb your whole library and then enchant Thorcale last iteration instead of Abdel for the win.
Great episode! I personally agree on most things except Devoted Druid + Swift Reconfig. The argument that ”this other combo has more commanders that goes along with it” isnt a valid argument when you sit down and play. What we didn't mention either is that devoted druid effectively gets haste with swift reconfiguration (since it becomes an artifact). Sure thrasios + white partner might be its only shell, but the combo is lethal, easy to set up and hard to interact with (if compared to all other combos). The cleanest way to win is by drawing with thrasios until we either hit thassa (scry to bottom) or chord of calling. Chord gets us Thassa and with the ability on the stack we draw our deck. It's extremely underplayed for the power it brings. Just the fact that you get a devoted druid off green suns zenith is also big. Only witherbloom would be the other combo where this is possible.
I was thinking of reasons why it's not that good, but the fact that the peudo-haste means you infinite at instant at such a lean cost really is potent. Perhaps why its being passed right now is that the cards by themselves are not amazing, so running both feels bad in spite of its undervalued power. There's some consideration that an opponent running Ouphe/Rod/Stony after you run Devoted is a big downside, though how most games play out after might mitigate that scenario. Again, no one running this combo enough, so no one is tipped that a devoted is "staxed" until a Thrasios+Wx plays removal, then wins instant speed.
@@KingHarlequin88 yes. Green is also the color that sometimes run Collector Ouphe and Null Rod since the dorks makes up for some rocks that you'd normally play otherwise. All these things said, I don't consider a Devoted Druid a >bad card< along with Thrasios. It's not the best 2-drop mana accelerant, but it's far from the worst. Swift Reconfiguration have come in clutch many games for me. Naturally the list I run is a midrange one with Seedborn Muse. Protecting muse from an occational Sword to Plowshares with Swift Reconfiguration is a truly valid play. But yea, swift reconfiguration as a card is hard to tutor for (if not in black) and has very limited usage.
31:52 I think you missed a few things in Dockside VS Underworld Breach. 1 Dockside can loop with Rule of Law in play with many cards like Emiel. 2 You need really few treasures to lood Dockside, so it reasonable faster to build Dockside lines than Underworld. 3 Dockside can punish your opponents and build all the mana you need from 2 mana. 4 You can use Kinnan and Wishclaw Talisman, and the new one Get Lost, to increse your Dockside count. 5 You will always run Dockside in your red deck, it doesn't matter, adding 1 card to loop it's not an issue, while Underworld Breach requieres an especific set up and using many cards you would not even think without Underworld Breach, like Brain Freeze and LED.
Everytime abrade gets mentioned dylan gets a bit excited and im right there with him, i just like that card. its always in my initial piles with red even tho often obviously it gets cut for rip apart if we're in white also.
Trickbind is great against thorcle also amazing how much other combos use thorcle so like if there was a ban it be interesting to see what cedh shifts to
In regards to stuff like Najeela+Derevi I think there's an argument it's in the same tier as the generic splashable wincons only because of how "accidentally" it wins on the spot. Thoracle+Consult is the best because it wins on the spot and is very mana efficient. Najeela+Derevi at best (with jeweled lotus) is also 3 mana and you can full swing at a single opponent and win the game only because a single person didn't have a blocker or because you were able to tap down the only blocker. I have almost been banned from my friend's high level table because of my Najeela deck lol
Trazyn the infinite as a commander + the black spell that entomb 3 creature (cant remember the name). Then you put pillipali , the platinium myr and smthg like ballista. Its 2 card combo that i like.
Hermit Druid and divining witch are the combo they aren't like ad nauseum, they are the demonic consultation/ tainted pact. I agree that they are weaker but I don't agree that they are different
I use one Ulamog in my cEDH deck, the commander is Yennett Cryptic Souvereign since she cheats odd cost spells I can cast Ulamog Infinite Gyre turn 3 with vampiric/imperial seal/ Scheming simetry although its it's better to just cheat peer into the abyss, I sometimes cast Ulamog and attack with anihilator 4 the local stax player just to make an statement it is so much fun, another fun story was that a blue farm player tried to mill y whole deck but since he could not due to Ulamogs effect to return all the gaveyard he could not win against me in the local tournament.
Love you guys, thank you for this awesome video! Is “IsoRev” really the preferred term over “drama club” for isochron + dramatic reversal? I’ve always called it the latter 🤣
It would be cool to see this topic frequently revisited or a "State of the meta" video. White has gotten a lot stronger, the meta is less stax and more midrange, the One Ring & Bowmaster exist...
I'd love to see a video that identifies how many of the cards that are banned in commander are worse than, say, Thassa's Oracle, Ad Naseum, Sol Ring, or Demonic Tutor.
Is falco spara pactweaver able to remove counters on its own or do you have to use other cards to remove counters and then get to cast the top card of your library? Someone please help.
Hey guys I inadvertently found a funny simic combo. Seedborn Muse, Temur Saburtooth, Winding canyons or flash enabler for creatures, emrakul the promised end, with enough lands to cast it. Basically you give your opponent infinite turns that you control. Not cedh viable but very funny. Pretty sure infinte casts don't work with emrakul so you need to cast during opponents turn to keep taking additional turn generated by emrakul.
Just wondering if that Bomberman combo can work with jewelled lotus if you plan to replay your commander over and over wouldn't that make infitie mana without having to discard your hand.
Poor IsoRev, it has fallen so far (over the years, not just your ranking^^), but yes it really fails to live up because of stronger stax and removal. Another angle to judge these combos woulde be: Which one is better on your starting hand? Or do you need to have an enabler in your starting hand? Example: Would you hold Food Chain + Consultation OR ramp into Polymorph for Hullbreaker?
Awesome detailed discussion guys! I shall keep the iso rev combo alive and strong in shimmer Zur! Played a game against Dylan where he had hull breaker horror out. Was able to steal it with Gilded Drake and combo off & win with his horror with my iso/rev out. Love this game for the smallest/biggest interactions. Join Patreon & hop in a Play Day y’all they have a great discord!
I think you guys did Whiterbloom Apprentice dirty. Not only those colors are crazy good for finding both cards. You don't need anything else, you compared it to Bomberman, but Bomberman still needs an outlet, Whiterbloom straight up kills the table.
If the other cards that Dualcaster went infinite with were more common (Ghostly Flicker), it becomes a really cool way to snipe a win. As it stands, it can't snipe the win with a twinflame cast by an opponent 😥
I think combos that rely on creatures are better in the current format. Most of the counters we use don't hit creatures, there's significantly less creature destruction nowadays, and with effects like Ranger captain not stopping them. Id also like to add the witherbloom chain is better than bomberman, Chain wins the game, Bomberman needs something else as a pay off. Same idea for Dockside v Breach, infinite mana means nothing without payoff
I hope you make a video about the combos you left off the list. I can’t think of a ton but I’ve thought of a few so you will surely come up with more and I hope you make a list.. just a big ol rated in order list of ALLLL THE COMBOS! There are reality chip/citadel top things and you might might expand on hermit druid lines and maybe Godo + Helm which actually does make it into some 99/98’s.. what else? There’s some stuff. That gain life lose life thing that the golgari chic… OH SHIT! You forgot Malcom + Glinthorn (I guess that’s a commander combo🤷♂️ fair enough.. heliod ballista, Grim monolith and things basalt monolith and things, other mage craft combos, whatever in the holy fuck krrrk uses to win the game.. I hope you do a video w the commander required combos and then you do “all the other combos”. I’m here for it, I think lots of people would be.. and did I mention?, there’s some stuff. 🖖great video I’m watching it for the second time almost back to back. Your the best cedh content there is on any platform full stop🖖
One thing that I really appreciate about your podcasting style is how you never lost the 'we should do a podcast' conversational style of doing a podcast.
Y'all are by far my favourite cEDH gameplay and discussion channel. Happy I decided to become a patron.
Thanks for your support!
yep, they re the best
Trying to learn cEDH. Found PtW. Happy
On another note, my budget doesn’t include LED, so that combo is ‘worse’ than Thoracle and Hulk, to me
wondering if you are still a patron a year later ? you still play magic ?
Proxy!
The best combo in cEDH is interactive gameplay + the friends we made along the way
enemies* 😂
@@w4tch0ut10 Frenemies*
That’s so fetch…land.
The friends we LOST along the way
How much mana is that?
You guys are so funny. Y'all are definitely the best cEDH combo. Love the channel. Thank you for uploading.
I feel like some of the weaker combos are more powerful as plan b or plan c. You don’t usually have a deck where the main game plan is bomberman. But a deck playing Breach/Brainstorm can slot in a Salvagers for an extra wincon. And I think that’s a great place for them to have power. Lean combos that may not be as fast, but also share the same cards as more powerful combos.
Good video but I think youre underrating chain of smog + witherbloom. It gets around more stax than bomberman. It gets around graveyard hate, activated ability hate, and artifact hate. It also doesnt need to worry about having an outlet with no hand since it just drains the table unlike bomberman which needs a commander as an outlet or some other way to use the mana without using your hand.
Yeah withersmog is much more powerful than bomberman. Wins through rule of law, doesn’t feed a rhystic study as much, doesn’t require an outlet
Excellent discussion, loved when Tyler looped during the Kraken Loops sections 😆
49:50 This is exactly how it works and now I can't get the image out of my head of someone swinging the Doom Blade at Devoted Druid and it goes full Transformers into a car to deflect the Doom Blade.
You guys really have something special. Your enthusiasm is really contagious.
You guys make better content than the command zone with a fraction of their budget.
They're both so high energy and well spoken.
Was really good to hear Food chain stay in the middle, finishing my Rocco list today and just picked up my etched food chain the other day so I’m ready to watch it win some games!
I build a prossh food chain deck, and man that was the fastest win I’ve ever had I think. My friend who has been playing longer than me said “yup, that’s a prossh deck” as we shuffled up for another game 😂. Food chain wins games. Have fun bro
Great that you explained the combos as you went really helps understand your reasons for the rating.
Always look forward to your new content ❤️ the gameplay is sick but the discussions are entertaining in a different but equally satisfying way
Best channel on CZcams. It has been inspiring to watch you guys grow.
One of my favorite unusual combos that, I think, deserves more consideration, is Isocron w/ a tutor that fetches Nexus of Fate. (Can be Mystic Tutor, Vamp Tutor, Tainted Pact, and kiiiiinda Demonic Conult.)
So, you cast Iso, imprint the tutor, grab Nexus, cast Nexus. If the tutor is of the top-of-the library type, you need to draw it (like doomsday almost).
You can wait a round around the table, though that’s risky, and endstep it.
Nexus gets shuffled away and on your next turn, you do it again. (If it’s a top of the library Tutor, you’ll naturally draw it as part of your extra turn)
From there you can win in any number of ways. If your commander is a big beater, you punch people to death, or you just draw through your library and win with whatever Rubgoldberg setup you fancy.
The pro of this is that your card quality is pretty high. Iso is a good card, and tutors are always played. Nexus, while a poor early game draw, can be a strong tempo piece as extra turns are always good.
It also can sidestep many stax pieces, notably Rule of Law.
It’s also a two-card combo, technically.
Down side is that the whole thing costs 4 + 5UU so 11 mana total. The cost can be split at a higher risk. It also folds to Artifact hate, which is common. If Iso gets removed, that tutor is in exile, which feels bad.
It’s also a little finicky, with top-of-the library tutors. A way to draw the card would speed the combo up exponentially. Tainted Pact, although, is cool, as you immediately put it to hand. Consult is super risky, you need to be sure you can close the game in as fee extra turns as possible.
Still, as a mid-range style wincon with as few as one color, the framework is really strong. It dodges stax and can be tough to interact with. The combo works alone, but the more you add to it, the better it gets.
So I've finally gotten to play live commander games after 20 year absence. I really love cedh and this show has helped me tremendously! I'm still getting good at keeping up with tons of triggers and keeping mindful of certain cards in play that hem me up constantly and I forget they are there. Traveling for work makes live games hard but I get to play in commander groups all over the country so all the different players help alot. Can't wait to build one of yalls decks soon!
I do like this, pretty solid. I do think that people hold onto old combos too much and can't let go in their mind that they are tier 2 or worse currently.
Maybe try have a game where the thoracle combo is “banned”. Test to see how that would affect your gameplay and deck building. Would be interesting
That's just a (house) ban on Thassa's Oracle, really - the card sees no play whatsoever for its pseudo-scry effect alone.
@@therealax6I disagree. I use it in orvar and as a backup wincon, i make infinite copies of her with infinite devotion
@@jasoncook2715 That's technically still using it for the win condition, not the scry-like effect...
@therealax6 it's multipurpose. I use it for both. To dig deeper and deeper to find what I need and then continue the combo. Most people freak when I drop it because they are so used to it being a win, until I reassure them that's not what I'm doing.
Only until I present a loop of making infinite copies of thassa do I win and they realize it's too late. Too many times I've played this exact combo and won. Have a great positive win% with orvar at my LGS who tries ro compete against me in cedh lol
@@jasoncook2715 If it didn't have the "you win the game" clause, would you still play it?
This is good content. Learned a lot here and I already watch the channel a ton.
My favourite way to stop a Thoracle win as of yet is Angel's Grace in my Abzan Stax. Love the face from smile to disbelief after the demonic consultation has resolved and they see the Angel's Grace go on the stack XD
Love this style of podcast, it's just like sitting at the table with your mate talking about cards
That was excellent lighting there at the end, I want Cameron to look like that in all episodes from now on XD
one of my fav combos, though not played in cedh is goblin sharpshooter + splinter twin (ideally with a haste enabler to go off in 1 turn, but people that dont know it usually don't worry about a random goblin sharpshooter lol). here's how it works: there needs to be any 1 toughness creature in play, yours, your opponents, doesnt matter as long as you can target it. cast splinter twin on sharpshooter - tap sharpshooter to create copy with twin - use copy to kill a random 1 toughness creature -> both sharpshooters untap. tap 1st shooter again to create another copy, use 2nd shooter to ping opponent, use 3rd shooter to kill itself, untapping the first 2, repeat until everyone is dead :)
i play it in a high-power krenko deck with great results and the sharpshooter also is nice utility with other cards, like basilisk collar to work as an opponent creature boardwipe for example.
The meta joke about taking a break and looking into the comment section for rules analysis brings me here to mention that you guys are great and I think you were correct that the spell *fizzles* for lack of a legal target.
47:19 the Sythis disrespect will not be tolerated!! Perfect combo for her
Preach!! Sythis is one Commander Masters enchantress precon away from being a higher tier (I'm assuming)
@@chrisdammeyer4347 sythis is already there. Just needs a second compact combo outside Heliod Ballista
very good ep! For the commander specific one (obviously having no idea what you have prepared) I'd like to throw in jhoira with words of wind
I think
Underworld Breach + Grinding Station + any mana neutral artifact
would have been worth mentioning, but it is very similar to
Underworld Breach + LED + Brain Feeze
oddly potentially easier to get online... wonder why no one talks about it hehe
This only mills yourself, so the upside of also hitting your opponents makes brain freeze much better.
@@maxsternburg1956
I would disagree, because I would value the combo being easier to assemble more than you.
Its a much easier to assemble combo, as most decks run 10+ mana neutral (or positive) artifacts and your usually aiming to mulligan into them anyway.
All you have to do is run an outlet in you deck to win.
@@Threads_Of_Fate yeah I see your point, I still think brain freeze is significantly more powerful personally. There is also a huge difference between exiling all the cards you get off the mill from station, verses exiling most of your library with brainfreeze and protecting yourself with coutnerspells and such that are also in your graveyard
Another good point is that dockside enables food chain. 3 opposing artifacts and/or enchantments and dockside gets you the mana for food chain and dockside itself gives you the creature to exile to food chain for Squee or scourge
This is an excellent format for your content. A lot of reasoning to chew on
the most charismatic and fun magic podcast there is!
One of my favorite hulk piles is torch courier+incubation druid+vigean graftmage. Graftmage gives Druid a +1/+1 counter from the graft trigger. Sac the courier to give the Druid haste. Tap Druid for 3 blue mana, use 2 of it to untap with graftmage's ability, repeat infinitely. After infinite blue mana, you can filter into what ever other colors you need.
Also, I think witherbloom is better than bomberman, because you don't need another outlet and witherbloom apprentice is strong in a format based around ad naus. The incremental drain helps power up your ad naus while hindering your opponents' ad naus.
Just bought the play to win metal shirt. As a new sub I had to buy it it's too badass
My favorite iso rev outlet is niv mizzet parun. It’s my favorite and first cedh deck I’ve ever built
one of my fave combo's i built a deck around is:
blisterpit gremlin (1 mana) + retraction helix (or banishing knack, both also 1 mana), + any mana positive mana rock eg mana crypt (0 mana), mox opal switched on, mox amber with commander, sol ring, grim monolith etc, now with infinite mana (colorless if u don't have any rocks that tap for any color), infinite storm count & cast triggers.
ideally with mana crypt is infinite mana for 2 mana. Works the same as hullbreakker horror/tidespout tyrant combos but with untap triggers & waaaaay less mana required.
Blisterspit gremlin's effect is usually rated at 3 mana in the form of jeskai ascendency, mirran spy, intruder alarm & the many other creatures that untap themselves on NONCREATURE casts.
Protean Hulk is of the same cloth as hermit druid.
They are both 1 card win conditions. The "combo" is the memory's journey into thoracle or the hulk pile itself.
Devoted Druid/Swift Reconfiguration is the prime combo in Tayam, Luminous Enigma but not sure how much cedh he sees. But that is my pet deck. love that deck so much
I finally won a game with Chain of Smog/ witherbloom Apprentice. It was hilarious because I was getting manhandled and finally drew my 4th swamp to tutor for my chain of Smog and won with 3 life left
I play a omnath locus of creation food chain deck, inspired by the one shown on the channel! Thanks for the idea!
Idk if I missed discussion on this but Food Chain is a priority combo in Atraxa Grand Unifier, allowing you to generate infinite mana and repeat cast Atraxa to draw your whole deck and win off Thoracle
Devoted Druid + Swift Reconfiguration actually dodges Enchantment removal since you can always just activate the Devoted Druid again. There is no spot where the enchantment is on the table where it can be dealt with before you get inf mana. It avoiding summoning sickness too (vehicles dont care about it) is also pretty sweet.
Great content, love this talks
I'd say for Korvold, dockside is better than food chain because of its _specific synergy_ with Korvold's ability
Great podcasts episode here 👍
It's videos like this that I got into cedh
7:00 you can switch LED with Dockside Extortionist too if it generates enough treasures to recast itself + brain freeze/thoracle and you have a way to sac it to recast it I assume? I know it's a small extra loop, to cast carrion feeder or viscra seer or what ever.
Animate Dead has a great line with Abdel that you can play through a RoL.
I play it in Raffine with Vile Entomber: have Entomber on the battlefield, having discarded or tutored for abdel with the entomber to your gy; Animate Dead the Abdel to start the loop, exiling Entomber too; (don't even need to exile your lands) just entomb your whole library and then enchant Thorcale last iteration instead of Abdel for the win.
I've never seen this line. It's pretty sick.
AWWWW YEAHHH! That was a quick turn around from the throaway comment that conceived it. haha
Great episode! I personally agree on most things except Devoted Druid + Swift Reconfig.
The argument that ”this other combo has more commanders that goes along with it” isnt a valid argument when you sit down and play.
What we didn't mention either is that devoted druid effectively gets haste with swift reconfiguration (since it becomes an artifact).
Sure thrasios + white partner might be its only shell, but the combo is lethal, easy to set up and hard to interact with (if compared to all other combos).
The cleanest way to win is by drawing with thrasios until we either hit thassa (scry to bottom) or chord of calling. Chord gets us Thassa and with the ability on the stack we draw our deck.
It's extremely underplayed for the power it brings.
Just the fact that you get a devoted druid off green suns zenith is also big. Only witherbloom would be the other combo where this is possible.
I was thinking of reasons why it's not that good, but the fact that the peudo-haste means you infinite at instant at such a lean cost really is potent. Perhaps why its being passed right now is that the cards by themselves are not amazing, so running both feels bad in spite of its undervalued power.
There's some consideration that an opponent running Ouphe/Rod/Stony after you run Devoted is a big downside, though how most games play out after might mitigate that scenario. Again, no one running this combo enough, so no one is tipped that a devoted is "staxed" until a Thrasios+Wx plays removal, then wins instant speed.
@@KingHarlequin88 yes. Green is also the color that sometimes run Collector Ouphe and Null Rod since the dorks makes up for some rocks that you'd normally play otherwise.
All these things said, I don't consider a Devoted Druid a >bad card< along with Thrasios. It's not the best 2-drop mana accelerant, but it's far from the worst.
Swift Reconfiguration have come in clutch many games for me. Naturally the list I run is a midrange one with Seedborn Muse. Protecting muse from an occational Sword to Plowshares with Swift Reconfiguration is a truly valid play.
But yea, swift reconfiguration as a card is hard to tutor for (if not in black) and has very limited usage.
31:52 I think you missed a few things in Dockside VS Underworld Breach. 1 Dockside can loop with Rule of Law in play with many cards like Emiel. 2 You need really few treasures to lood Dockside, so it reasonable faster to build Dockside lines than Underworld. 3 Dockside can punish your opponents and build all the mana you need from 2 mana. 4 You can use Kinnan and Wishclaw Talisman, and the new one Get Lost, to increse your Dockside count. 5 You will always run Dockside in your red deck, it doesn't matter, adding 1 card to loop it's not an issue, while Underworld Breach requieres an especific set up and using many cards you would not even think without Underworld Breach, like Brain Freeze and LED.
Everytime abrade gets mentioned dylan gets a bit excited and im right there with him, i just like that card. its always in my initial piles with red even tho often obviously it gets cut for rip apart if we're in white also.
Trickbind is great against thorcle also amazing how much other combos use thorcle so like if there was a ban it be interesting to see what cedh shifts to
I need a "Shut the fuck up about Hermit Druid" sound byte for my day to day
In regards to stuff like Najeela+Derevi I think there's an argument it's in the same tier as the generic splashable wincons only because of how "accidentally" it wins on the spot. Thoracle+Consult is the best because it wins on the spot and is very mana efficient. Najeela+Derevi at best (with jeweled lotus) is also 3 mana and you can full swing at a single opponent and win the game only because a single person didn't have a blocker or because you were able to tap down the only blocker. I have almost been banned from my friend's high level table because of my Najeela deck lol
Would love to see najeela list if you have one
Bless y’all ❤
Another big problem w DCM in Godo is that you can just use the twinflame on Godo to win so you kinda don’t need the DCM if you have the twinflame
THE GOAT POD. The PTW Experience!
Trazyn the infinite as a commander + the black spell that entomb 3 creature (cant remember the name). Then you put pillipali , the platinium myr and smthg like ballista. Its 2 card combo that i like.
Living for every time Cam says Gitchrog
Hermit Druid and divining witch are the combo they aren't like ad nauseum, they are the demonic consultation/ tainted pact. I agree that they are weaker but I don't agree that they are different
I use one Ulamog in my cEDH deck, the commander is Yennett Cryptic Souvereign since she cheats odd cost spells I can cast Ulamog Infinite Gyre turn 3 with vampiric/imperial seal/ Scheming simetry although its it's better to just cheat peer into the abyss, I sometimes cast Ulamog and attack with anihilator 4 the local stax player just to make an statement it is so much fun, another fun story was that a blue farm player tried to mill y whole deck but since he could not due to Ulamogs effect to return all the gaveyard he could not win against me in the local tournament.
that ending was some pro podcasting
Love you guys, thank you for this awesome video! Is “IsoRev” really the preferred term over “drama club” for isochron + dramatic reversal? I’ve always called it the latter 🤣
I asked for it and now I'm seeing it 😂😂😊😊😊😊
Omnath LOC, Food Chain+ is chef's kiss.
It would be cool to see this topic frequently revisited or a "State of the meta" video. White has gotten a lot stronger, the meta is less stax and more midrange, the One Ring & Bowmaster exist...
No freaking way dude, I literally suggested this as a topic for your next vid
I'd love to see a video that identifies how many of the cards that are banned in commander are worse than, say, Thassa's Oracle, Ad Naseum, Sol Ring, or Demonic Tutor.
And here I am playing Satoru, using 8 mana to ninjutsu Leveler and Oracle....😅but I had pulled it off more times than Consultation Oracle.
Is falco spara pactweaver able to remove counters on its own or do you have to use other cards to remove counters and then get to cast the top card of your library? Someone please help.
thanks
Here's a fun one: Temur Sabertooth, Dockside Extortionist, Alter of the Brood, mill your opponents without blue!
Burid Alive + reanimate Package , necrotic ooze Lines , and also entomb + reanimate
I making them draw a card after they exile their library but before oracle triggers would be the funniest way to stop the combo
Tayam can use Devoted Driod and Swift Reconfiguration.
Waiting for the comander centric combos list , Niv curiosity, derevi najeela, malcom bucaneer etc etc
I already know conspicious snoop combo is underrated. You simply have to play it in a goblin deck! its good vs. stax ; P
Hey guys I inadvertently found a funny simic combo. Seedborn Muse, Temur Saburtooth, Winding canyons or flash enabler for creatures, emrakul the promised end, with enough lands to cast it. Basically you give your opponent infinite turns that you control. Not cedh viable but very funny.
Pretty sure infinte casts don't work with emrakul so you need to cast during opponents turn to keep taking additional turn generated by emrakul.
I like dual caster in godo. always nice to copy someones tutor spell while you are counting to eleven :)
i love it here
This is what I love with cEDH. The combos except number 1 have versatility outside winning the game. Also Dockside is so broken.
Deadly dispute is my favorite way in black to hit thoracle
You sacing the thassa?
quality talk here!
Figured I better sub since I purchased like $200 in cards after binging your channel XD
I have a question, what about a fringe elas Il-kor with entomb/animate dead entombing leonin relicwarden?
Just wondering if that Bomberman combo can work with jewelled lotus if you plan to replay your commander over and over wouldn't that make infitie mana without having to discard your hand.
31:40 how bout grinding station with dockside breach >,< lol
oh forgot sac outlet needed or culling/infernal plunge
Poor IsoRev, it has fallen so far (over the years, not just your ranking^^), but yes it really fails to live up because of stronger stax and removal.
Another angle to judge these combos woulde be: Which one is better on your starting hand? Or do you need to have an enabler in your starting hand?
Example: Would you hold Food Chain + Consultation OR ramp into Polymorph for Hullbreaker?
That play to win hoodie is hard 😂
Awesome detailed discussion guys! I shall keep the iso rev combo alive and strong in shimmer Zur! Played a game against Dylan where he had hull breaker horror out. Was able to steal it with Gilded Drake and combo off & win with his horror with my iso/rev out. Love this game for the smallest/biggest interactions. Join Patreon & hop in a Play Day y’all they have a great discord!
I think you guys did Whiterbloom Apprentice dirty. Not only those colors are crazy good for finding both cards. You don't need anything else, you compared it to Bomberman, but Bomberman still needs an outlet, Whiterbloom straight up kills the table.
I always have a *visceral* response to how Cam says Viscera Seer.
If the other cards that Dualcaster went infinite with were more common (Ghostly Flicker), it becomes a really cool way to snipe a win. As it stands, it can't snipe the win with a twinflame cast by an opponent 😥
Dualcaster combos synergies with the magecraft combos
Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal is nuts. What is your guys take on using Lithoform Engine as a redundancy to Isochron Scepter?
Loved the ending: "Fuck it! We're done"
You guys missed a really obvious problem with Devoted Druid that I personally think takes it off of the top 10 immediately: summoning sickness.
Can't wait for the commander list to see where Tivit + Time Sieve ranks.
It’s out now! TOP 10 COMBOS THAT ARE A ONE CARD COMBO BECAUSE YOUR COMMANDER IS ONE OF THE CARDS IN THE COMBO
czcams.com/video/J57kNlPZuHk/video.html
I think combos that rely on creatures are better in the current format. Most of the counters we use don't hit creatures, there's significantly less creature destruction nowadays, and with effects like Ranger captain not stopping them.
Id also like to add the witherbloom chain is better than bomberman, Chain wins the game, Bomberman needs something else as a pay off. Same idea for Dockside v Breach, infinite mana means nothing without payoff
Best combo involves clock of omens and it’s not close!🎉
I would have liked to see Tyler in this discussion too , that guy is a genius , but nonetheless great discussion guys
Another pro of Witherbloom over Bomberman is that Witherbloom wins the game outright by itself, whereas Bomberman still needs another outlet to do so
I hope you make a video about the combos you left off the list. I can’t think of a ton but I’ve thought of a few so you will surely come up with more and I hope you make a list.. just a big ol rated in order list of ALLLL THE COMBOS!
There are reality chip/citadel top things and you might might expand on hermit druid lines and maybe Godo + Helm which actually does make it into some 99/98’s.. what else? There’s some stuff. That gain life lose life thing that the golgari chic… OH SHIT! You forgot Malcom + Glinthorn (I guess that’s a commander combo🤷♂️ fair enough.. heliod ballista, Grim monolith and things basalt monolith and things, other mage craft combos, whatever in the holy fuck krrrk uses to win the game.. I hope you do a video w the commander required combos and then you do “all the other combos”. I’m here for it, I think lots of people would be.. and did I mention?, there’s some stuff.
🖖great video I’m watching it for the second time almost back to back.
Your the best cedh content there is on any platform full stop🖖
And Ashaya combos
All the mono green stuff