I love my dwarf2 the images I got from this little telescope are fantastic, I also got to give many thanks to this channel Scott has taught how to process the images using Siril.
I know nothing about astrophotography but my wife loves to sit out on a clear night and just look up at the stars using her iPhone to try to find specific objects. For this reason the Seestar S50 with it’s ease of use would tick all the right boxes ,I also know it is bulkier but the case is more protective and when it is shoved in the back of the wardrobe when not in use at least it wouldn’t get damaged .so for this reason I’m really thinking this might be a good Christmas present.
thank you!! love the comparison, I would say the D2 is very good the only thing I will change is the calibration part, on that side the Seestar is better or easier to setup than the D2, both are great devices.
I just received my dwarf 2 and I love it. I really wanted to get the Seestar S50 but they seem to be unavailable until November. I'm pretty sure I will end up picking up the Seestar and using both. The Dwarf has surprising daylight capabilities.
Just one thing Scott, if you do notlar align Dwarf II, give it a try without tripod. You will see it is mucho more stable and does not get affected by wind.
@@ScottCastrophotography Hopefully your video will make me decide whether to purchase the Dwarf 2 (again…) or bite the bullet and wait for the Seestar. Theoretically astronomical equipment shops have already placed orders so that even if i order in a few days i might get within a month or two. If that is true then those who ordered directly from ZWO at a late time (e.g. August) are the ones who will receive last.
The easy answer to the question is Get both. Then you'll move up to an apo scope and a dslr, then a dedicated cooled ASTRO camera. This ain't a cheap hobby. And you will always be wanting to upgrade your equipment. Honestly, just use the dslr and lenses you have at first. Add a star tracker next. Then decide if this is a hobby for you. I think both of these camera/scope/mounts will be bought by people already into astrophotography, that want a quick, portable set up, like the owners of 12" dobson telescopes want a little 80mm grab and go.
@@Astronurd true, but you have to remember, some people don't mind pricing and just want the best quality stuff. If you ask me, Seestar compares well against vespera
@@ScottCastrophotography it does as far as detail for sure, but Vespera does cover the whole gambit of fov between these scopes with CovalENS with out the rotational issues
I'd like to see the two compared HxWxL in the video. From the specs the Seestar isn't hugely different except in width. Your side by side also shows the Seestar is a vertical design while the dwarf II is a horizontal design. Turning either one shows a much closer footprint overall. While the OEM box for the Seestar is huge, honestly it would fit in the average video camera bag I did use to tote my Sony Handicam in when I took it on hikes, or the bag I used for my film cameras and extra lenses. Sure the Dwarf is 'lite' but it's also small aperture and was designed initially around the terrestrial tracking usage. So I can see both being very useful in different ways and the combo would come under 10-11lbs(without tripods). Thats pretty light honestly.
This post-processing is far too lengthy and complicated for a beginner. For those people, just pull your image into Photoshop (or equivalent) and tinker with brightness, contrast, color balance and saturation. You can even stack with the blend layers,
I wish you would have done the same target for the Dwarf II where you polar aligned the Dwarf II and compared all three images together. I feel it is unfair to limit the Dwarf II’s potential, because the Seestar is unable to be used polar aligned. To me the Dwarf II’s advantages are as follows: greater field of view; ability to be polar aligned; portability; dual cameras; and auto tracking for terrestrial targets. The Seestar’s advantages are as follows: larger aperture (higher resolution); better software.
I think i spotted a guy who bought a dwarf 2 without knowing the s50 is coming out….there’s always newer and better stuff coming out, it makes no sense trying to talk down the new devices. The s50 is the better scope, hands down. But it doesn’t make the dwarf 2 a bad scope, just no longer the best small smart scope…
@@erebostd No I am not. I have not order either yet, but I am trying to decide which one to buy. I have followed both telescopes since they were both announced and I have watched all the videos I could find. It would be very interesting to me to see what is the difference between the same target polar aligned and in regular Alt/Az. Polar alignment basically turns it into an equatorial mount. If you don’t understand the potential benefits of polar alignment, you should not attack me and make false assumptions. Also S50 is not the hands down winner as all my advantages show for the Dwarf II, put your claims into question. There is no one perfect scope. I own several telescopes and many spotting scopes. Each are better at some things then the other. I have a NextStar 8SE with a planetary camera. This scope has a much bigger aperture and is very good for planets and small targets with the camera. It is also good for visual observation because it collects more light. I have various refactor telescopes and I am interested in getting a smaller portable telescope with larger field of view for imaging larger sections of the sky. The field rotation is a problem for me because you will get excessive field rotation, due to the need to have extended imaging time to compensate for the smaller apertures light gathering power. Also polar alignment may allow for longer sub times over 10 seconds and also help with walking noise and other imaging problems. I haven’t seen many videos comparing the differences yet. I have also noticed you do the same thing to other commenters here. Please stop attacking others and keep your comments more constructive.
@@MrCornwedanice commentary. I too am looking at both of these units, but this will be my first foray into a "smart scope" vs old fashioned astrophotography with a good wide angle, low f-stop lens to maximize light collection on long exposures. As a newbie, what exactly does polar alignment on pre-setup provide? Given you are telling the scope to "go to" any object you want in the sky... isn't that alignment hosed after the lens moves to those coordinates? For adaptability, and a wider field of view I lean to the dwarf personally. Did you make a purchase? Thanks for any help or feedback.
@@rickwhitfield7617 Alt/Az mounts suffer from field rotation. The earth is rotating with respect to the polar axis and unless you angle your scope along the polar axis your image will also rotate. You can only take short subs of around 10s before the image blurs too much. You also get image clipping as the rectangle field of view rotates with time. This is really noticed at an hour or above integration time. The other effects is strange circular artifacts called walking noise and other effects. Polar alignment will prevent much of these effects. You still need auto guiding to get longer exposures, but polar alignment helps a lot with both sharpness and sub times.
Very good video. You forgot to mention that the Dwarf has a removable battery. I bought a Dwarf and I haven’t been able to use it yet because of the weather. However, in early May, I decided to buy the Seestar as well because I think that way I have both options: wide image with less details and narrow image with more details. However, I still don’t have the Seestar because it seems that there is too much demand and they are being shipped very slowly. As a final suggestion, I would like to see an updated course on your channel on how to use Siril to process images and also how to use other tools such as solar video frame extraction tools for later processing or how to use GIMP in astrophotography. Thank you for your video.
@@dannymartinez3600 Yes, I received it. The Dwarf is a bit more complicated to use than the Seestar. The Seestar offers better images, but its field of view is much narrower than the Dwarf's, for example, the Andromeda galaxy is impossible to photograph in its entirety, only a part of it. The Seestar does not allow many camera adjustments or the option to stack photos with exposures longer than 10 seconds, and it also discards many photos, which can be a bit frustrating. I believe the Dwarf will soon receive a new software update that will greatly improve the image quality and ease of use, but I am still waiting for that. I am happy to have both and I think I will use them at the same time.
Let’s clarify what these are. These are designed as eaa setups not astrophotography rigs that require post processing hours of exposure time. The point is to go out and look at the sky like you would with a visual scope but with more detail and color. That’s all. I ordered the SeeStar for this reason. I have an astrophotography rig and a a few visual scopes. The SeeStar will probably replace my 8 inch dob for grab n go backyard viewing and to take on road trips and camping. Probably take it to friends houses when hanging over there. Edit: 9/19/2023, I’m seeing some really good wide field images from the SeeStar if you want to stack and post process. But I’ll still say this is primarily aimed at EAA for a near real time viewing experience.
The Dwarf 2 still holds up well, trouble is only 1/4 the aperture, This makes a difference as the Seestar has greater resolution due to larger aperture. While the Dwarf 2 has the advantage of a much larger field of view, but can also be it's downfall, larger field of view Means much smaller image scale, making it harder to see the detail. As the Seestar has a smaller field of view, means bigger image scale so easier to see detail. To see more detail on Dwarf 2 need to crop. Both actually compliment each other. I have the Dwarf 2, and getting Seestar also. Also as you can EQ mount the Dwarf 2, it does it does mean its better for more serious astrophotography so Dwarf 2 wins out here, and at the moment can stack all tiff from Dwarf 2. If your more into astrophotography being able to EQ mount the Dwarf 2 has the big advantage and a game changer. Also the Dwarf 2 is actually. More versatile as not only can you turn off the ir filter, but use 1.25" filters. With the Seestar, cannot turn off the ir cut filter and the lazy geek thinks adding other filters may not be a good idea. His testing so far shows Seestar is worse using other filters. But if you can, why not buy both, as both are a great buy. For what the Dwarf 2 does its amazing, and out of the box, think, Seestar can get away with less processing and get better results without heavy post processing
I have a DWARF II, not sure I like the ‘vertical’ image of the SeeStar. I would like to be able to add a lens to the DWARF to give a longer focal length for planets etc
I agree! I actually climbed a mountain with my dwarf ii and hid an engagement ring in the bag, and engagement to my girlfriend at the top of the mountain. She had no idea i had the ring because she never checks my telescope bag
@@ScottCastrophotography This is the best reply I've ever read LOL! Nice one Scott, my wife's crackin up! Your video has really generated so many fun comments to read & your responses are so very helpful regarding this new world of portable mini Telescopes.
I didnt polar align my dwarf but I did play around with my camera tilt angle and used the controller to move the dwarf out of curiousity and this seems to have messed up my motor function already posted it on the fb group.
Great comparison Scott. I already have the Dwarf II, but 'm thinking about also buying the Seestar. Portability is important for me, because I don't drive a car and I need to walk to the dark area (luckily) not far from my house. From my on all sides enclosed balcony I have a view from east via south to west and I can attach the Dwarf II on the outside of the balcony. Not sure if that's possible with the Seestar. By the way, what size is the screw of the Seestar tripod? Is that 1/4 or bigger?
Forgot to mentiont hat I really like the app for the Seestar. I think user experience is very important and the Seestar app looks like a lot of fun. At least more fun than the current Dwarf II app. Maybe the upcoming update of the app will bring some change in that.
Filter set is extra $100 if i recall, it also needs to plste solve before going to specific target. Seestar from m y first run of the equipment it didn't need calibration before going to specific targets.
Dwarf doesn't require bias or flats, only astro darks, and so does Seestar, that is what the enhancement session is, it's actually just dark frames being taken.
Thanks for the video Scott I think the seastar is a great alternative to getting into astrophotography The Price is Right do you think I will be able to take a picture of the comet?
Just watched the video. Well done! I would highlight the dwarf’s ability for STA mode connection. That means you do not have to be near the telescope, as long as it is within your router’s range. What about battery life? The dwarf is not very good. The Seestar needs to be absolutely levelled in order to calibrate?
If Seestar is not leveled, it will not track properly, Hence why it can't be polar aligned. Battery life is pretty much the same as dwarf ii maybe just half an hour longer if not connected to power.
Got the Seestar S50 just a week ago but then it started Raining. And since its suddenly sunny in a very unpredictable Welsh skies. It only took under 2 minutes to setup and calibrate to start solar imaging. Really game changer. And I bet that Celestron Origin at a whooping 3,999 USD pricetag does it even better since it has a bigger RASA telescope and a better camera.
Thats what i thought too and was considering a gti for my refractor and dslr until I was reminded that i would need to add a camera tethered to a laptop and an altair for plate solving! A n d that the longer focal/bigger aperture would translate into shorter and shorter exp times …
Now that five months have passed since you made this comparison video, seems a lot has changed with the software of these two scopes and I am having a difficult time deciding between the two. One thing I would like to have seen was a crop of the Dwarf Lab II image to bring it to same relative side as the SeeStar 50 and then see how sharp it looks by comparison. Have you done that? And after 5 months, have you picked a favourite, and if so, why? Thank you for your videos!
Seestar clearly wins for me as an amature who never made astrophotography. I think the comparisson is not relly fair as the real competition for Seestar is the Vaois Vespera.
@@Menudaesmiberza I have learned that the creator of the video only gets notified about a main comment in the video, so when you respond to a comment they already answered to you, they don't get the notification so you will wait forever. If you want him to see your answer, you need to make a new main comment :)
I like Dwarf 2 more than seestar. As Dwarf 2 supports polaris alignment, and it is very portable. The best telescope is always the one you used at the most of the time, I can take my Dwarf 2 whenever I have a trip.
@jimmy the best scope is the one you can use the most. Great point! waiting on a pre-ordered s50 now. I'm looking forward to having something easier than my 12" dob to share w people away from my house ;-)
If you order from Dwarflab in the link i have in the description, you could expect it in one or two weeks, but Seestar is on preorders right now if you order now you'd get it maybe next year🥲
@@ScottCastrophotography Thanks. That's exactly what happened! I had no experience with ”preorders”. 😁 (Oh! you say ”MAYBE” !? You mean, ”perhaps still this year, if you're lucky” - I hope! )
Anyone laugh when he said "buy both"? at that point, you could just buy a Sky-Watcher Heritage-150P Flextube Virtuoso GTi and use live stacking in sharp cap with a budget SvBony camera for much less money and you can record far more objects, both wide and tiny. This is what i use, though i do use my Canon 1300d too attached to the telescope. All controlled from any android phone or tablet.
Well, i posted a reply and it disappeared. There are youtubers who use a similar setup. My opinion on the two, i would choose the ZWO Seestar, ZWO are huge when it comes to astrophotography, they'll fix anything with software updates as they always do with their other hardware.
I also use a basic Goto alt/az visual scope for AP, in my case I use a 12” Goto Dobsonian (Orion XT2G). I think what we are seeing is that with modern low read noise CMOS cameras, fast low cost computing, and advanced processing, many of these low cost unguided Alt/Az systems can now do basic deep Sky AP as long as they are motorized and controllable from some type of computer, whether that be a built in system or an external system (ex: NINA fully automates mine even though it was never intended to be an AP rig). So I can imagine future vendors of basic small Goto scopes putting together fairly easy to use AP packages, or at least better enabling them to be configured for AP. That’s in addition to more of these all-in-one turnkey systems coming out. There is going to be a revolution in easier to use low cost AP and EAA in the next few years.
@@stevenmiller5452 I have used the Stelina and eVscope, these scopes are ok but they are extremely limited, they don't compete with any astrophotography setup at less than a quarter of the price, the sensors are good, the one in the Seestar has the same sensor as the ZWO ASI 462MC Camera. The more they start creating addons, the more it becomes another setup and moves away from the whole portable aspect that makes them appealing. You can create your own more flexible setup with a Sky-Watcher Heritage-114P Virtuoso, astro cam and Sharpcap which also has live stacking. The biggest problem with these telescopes like Seestar, if something breaks, getting it fixed outside of warranty is not going to be easy and they have a fixed magnification, filters are not easy to attach, they have to cover the whole objective lens making them cost much more than a traditional filter for telescopes. My opinion though, Seestar is the best one, ZWO should improve on their software, they have good reputation, the specs are on par with the Vespera, this is the one i am considering, i just wish they used a 4k sensor like the IMX678 that the ZWO ASI 678MC Camera uses because photos look like thumbnails on 4k screens and wouldn't have cost any more as both sensors cost the same. There is one way to get around the magnification limitation, they could use a longer focal length and have a mechanical focal reducer, this would increase the price but would work.
Dwarf II is also and Alt/Az mount and can be polar aligned and the software still will plate solve and go to target. The issues with the Dwarf II was how the tiny motors would support the telescope not vertically align. I have seen in the forums that it will support being inclined. I also heard in the Seestar forums that the software will most likely not support polar alignment, because the telescope will not be able to function correctly in an inclined position. The forums mentioned that the telescope has to be levelled and uses the compass to plate solve and find it’s initial start position (Dwarf II does not require this). They also mention mechanical issues and if it’s driveshaft/motors will support being in an inclined position. They also suggest this will also make it difficulty to support mosaic mode that can be used in their ASIAir device, which the S50’s software is based. To me this is a shame since it would solve the two biggest issues with the S50 (small field of view and field rotation). This leaves the future open for a 50mm apo chromatic smart telescope which supports polar alignment and mosaic mode at a sub $1000 price point. I am sure we will see this soon, as this would truly blur the lines between full rig Astro rig. It would be a full slam dunk if they they had auto guiding also. A dual camera system or Split View could allow this. We live in a wonderful time for astronomy, just as the stars are slipping through our vision as light pollution and satellites are ruining our view.
@@MrCornweda no reason to suspect the S50 isn't robust enough to be tilted at a modest angle. Except speculation. Seems very compact and sturdy to me. It's a trivial software change and some third party is likely to do it .
@@rackmasterhIt is more than just whether it can be inclined, but problems such as how well it will track mechanically. So far it has not been tested that I know of and the existing software will not support it (it will fail initial setup in this position). The S50 existing system as we see in Scott’s video makes it even more beginner friendly and you just have to turn it on and it will take dark flats and automatically align. I don’t own either scopes, but can only comment on what I read and saw. I have a Celestron Nexstar 8SE and you can use a wedge to polar align the telescope on it’s Alt/Az mount, but it is not recommended. For smaller scopes like the S50, it might not affect the tracking as badly. The Dwarf being so light and having such a wide field of view would definitely do better.
It already has the astro darks built in with the sub exposures. Whenever i use astro darks in siril with dark files too it ends up adding more noise instead of reducing it
Great field of view means nothing if your resolution is poor. Always go with a better resolution. As for portability, if it fits in the back of my car, it's portable. No serious amateur astronomer takes their telescope hiking, not even the semi-serious ones. Although, I have heard of a few non-serious astronomers have taken theirs to the beach.
Tons of serious amateur astronomers have to go to dark sites to image. So yes they do take their gear hiking. You can’t image if you live in a metro area.
This is such an awesome review, Thank You! I also have both platforms & both are super EZ and fast to setup. My experience has been the Dwarf II is a little better on planets, and for me, they've been super close to the same on Galaxy's, Nebulas & Clusters. I love the comment "Get Both" LOL. But Seriously, just be happy with either one, they're so close in capabilities that once you get one or the other dialed in & a clear night, you'll be having fun!
@ScottCastrophotography Awesome Thank You! I'm really blown away with how you switched between the 2 scopes. That seems impossible for me, guess it's why my kids tease me that I can't multi task LOL!
Also the people of DWARFLAB s are still working on improving the dwarfs app by including an ASIAIR style atlas’s for their device, things can only get better for the Little device. Also I have a telescope that’s controlled by the ASIAIR plus buying the seestar fir me will be a waste of money.
@@ScottCastrophotographyah, come on. He has a dwarf 2 and is salty he didn’t get the s50. You often can see it in the comments of s50 videos. If you see what the backlog of the Seestar software contains I’m interested to see a comparison in half a year or so. Maybe something for you? 😉👍
@@erebostdyou don’t speak for me how do you know I’m salty, yep I do own the dwarf2 I was mulling over which one I was going to buy I chose the dwarf 2.
I have a question. If I had more see stars like maybe four of them looking at the same object for the same amount of time what do you think the end result would be like? Obviously there be more data but will that be helpful? The reason why I ask is that the units are relatively portable and cost-effective
Your image would probably blow the minds of everyone who sees it. The image here was 3 hours of integration time, now imagine with 12, which is what you're saying. That would be incredible
@@jordydewolde4308 guess I mean using four SeeStars on the same Target for the same integration time. You would have four times the data to add together to make one image
I love my dwarf2 the images I got from this little telescope are fantastic, I also got to give many thanks to this channel Scott has taught how to process the images using Siril.
thanks for the positive comment! Dwarf ii is quite amazing!
Well done, great video comparison. Certainty shows the difference in image quality. Each one has pros and cons and you have highlighted them very well
Thank you very much!
Love seeing the editing on the photos afterwards - would love to see more videos like this, it's the biggest learning curve
Your wish is my command! Coming soon!
I know nothing about astrophotography but my wife loves to sit out on a clear night and just look up at the stars using her iPhone to try to find specific objects. For this reason the Seestar S50 with it’s ease of use would tick all the right boxes ,I also know it is bulkier but the case is more protective and when it is shoved in the back of the wardrobe when not in use at least it wouldn’t get damaged .so for this reason I’m really thinking this might be a good Christmas present.
Great video....I pre-ordered the Seestar during ZWO's promotion. I like all the stuff it comes with and does on its own.
Yeah this is the video for sure! It's the main question for everyone considering one of those smart scopes.
amazing power of Siril -thanks for the workflow shown
So glad you made this video ... I Just pre ordered the Seestar. Can't wait to play 😊
Awesome! I hope you enjoy it!
Thanks ... Got a sub and Like from me 👍
@@SeriouslyIssues thanks! Your support truthfully does help and mean a lot
@@SeriouslyIssues where did u buy it
Will watch it later on. I need to take my time with this video. Thanks!
Great job, Scott, thank you for another fantastic video!
the best scope is the one your using at the time.. I have both, use both and enjoy using both
thank you!! love the comparison, I would say the D2 is very good the only thing I will change is the calibration part, on that side the Seestar is better or easier to setup than the D2, both are great devices.
Thanks for all info and comparation beetwen this two devices. Ss everytime a pleasure to see your videos
Best regards from a Italian Ham Radio ;-) ;-)
Awesome! Good to hear from you!
I just received my dwarf 2 and I love it. I really wanted to get the Seestar S50 but they seem to be unavailable until November. I'm pretty sure I will end up picking up the Seestar and using both. The Dwarf has surprising daylight capabilities.
10:41 My eyeeeeessssss
Just one thing Scott, if you do notlar align Dwarf II, give it a try without tripod. You will see it is mucho more stable and does not get affected by wind.
I just got the S50, but I wish the S50 came in different colors. I also really like the Dwarf too.
Yeah. It's just an hour before Apple's event. Great timing!!
I hope you enjoy it!
@@ScottCastrophotography Hopefully your video will make me decide whether to purchase the Dwarf 2 (again…) or bite the bullet and wait for the Seestar. Theoretically astronomical equipment shops have already placed orders so that even if i order in a few days i might get within a month or two. If that is true then those who ordered directly from ZWO at a late time (e.g. August) are the ones who will receive last.
To the guy who asked me what I used to catch the Supernova? It was a Williams optics 102gt with an asi294mc pro and an asiair plus
The easy answer to the question is
Get both.
Then you'll move up to an apo scope and a dslr, then a dedicated cooled ASTRO camera.
This ain't a cheap hobby. And you will always be wanting to upgrade your equipment.
Honestly, just use the dslr and lenses you have at first. Add a star tracker next. Then decide if this is a hobby for you.
I think both of these camera/scope/mounts will be bought by people already into astrophotography, that want a quick, portable set up, like the owners of 12" dobson telescopes want a little 80mm grab and go.
Bought the dwarf because I can’t get my hands a S50 in short notice. See what it brings and maybe a S50 Mkii in the future….lol.
Next up, do the Seestar s50 vs Dwarf ll vs Vaonis Vespera vs Unistellar Equinox 2. The ultimate smart telescope showdown.
I'd love to😂 don't have my hands on vespera or equinox yet tho✌🏼
Not a fair comparison considering their prices.
@@Astronurd true, but you have to remember, some people don't mind pricing and just want the best quality stuff. If you ask me, Seestar compares well against vespera
@@ScottCastrophotography it does as far as detail for sure, but Vespera does cover the whole gambit of fov between these scopes with CovalENS with out the rotational issues
I'd like to see the two compared HxWxL in the video. From the specs the Seestar isn't hugely different except in width. Your side by side also shows the Seestar is a vertical design while the dwarf II is a horizontal design. Turning either one shows a much closer footprint overall. While the OEM box for the Seestar is huge, honestly it would fit in the average video camera bag I did use to tote my Sony Handicam in when I took it on hikes, or the bag I used for my film cameras and extra lenses. Sure the Dwarf is 'lite' but it's also small aperture and was designed initially around the terrestrial tracking usage. So I can see both being very useful in different ways and the combo would come under 10-11lbs(without tripods). Thats pretty light honestly.
This post-processing is far too lengthy and complicated for a beginner. For those people, just pull your image into Photoshop (or equivalent) and tinker with brightness, contrast, color balance and saturation. You can even stack with the blend layers,
I wish you would have done the same target for the Dwarf II where you polar aligned the Dwarf II and compared all three images together. I feel it is unfair to limit the Dwarf II’s potential, because the Seestar is unable to be used polar aligned. To me the Dwarf II’s advantages are as follows: greater field of view; ability to be polar aligned; portability; dual cameras; and auto tracking for terrestrial targets. The Seestar’s advantages are as follows: larger aperture (higher resolution); better software.
I think i spotted a guy who bought a dwarf 2 without knowing the s50 is coming out….there’s always newer and better stuff coming out, it makes no sense trying to talk down the new devices. The s50 is the better scope, hands down. But it doesn’t make the dwarf 2 a bad scope, just no longer the best small smart scope…
@@erebostd No I am not. I have not order either yet, but I am trying to decide which one to buy. I have followed both telescopes since they were both announced and I have watched all the videos I could find. It would be very interesting to me to see what is the difference between the same target polar aligned and in regular Alt/Az. Polar alignment basically turns it into an equatorial mount. If you don’t understand the potential benefits of polar alignment, you should not attack me and make false assumptions. Also S50 is not the hands down winner as all my advantages show for the Dwarf II, put your claims into question. There is no one perfect scope. I own several telescopes and many spotting scopes. Each are better at some things then the other. I have a NextStar 8SE with a planetary camera. This scope has a much bigger aperture and is very good for planets and small targets with the camera. It is also good for visual observation because it collects more light. I have various refactor telescopes and I am interested in getting a smaller portable telescope with larger field of view for imaging larger sections of the sky. The field rotation is a problem for me because you will get excessive field rotation, due to the need to have extended imaging time to compensate for the smaller apertures light gathering power. Also polar alignment may allow for longer sub times over 10 seconds and also help with walking noise and other imaging problems. I haven’t seen many videos comparing the differences yet.
I have also noticed you do the same thing to other commenters here. Please stop attacking others and keep your comments more constructive.
@@MrCornwedanice commentary. I too am looking at both of these units, but this will be my first foray into a "smart scope" vs old fashioned astrophotography with a good wide angle, low f-stop lens to maximize light collection on long exposures. As a newbie, what exactly does polar alignment on pre-setup provide? Given you are telling the scope to "go to" any object you want in the sky... isn't that alignment hosed after the lens moves to those coordinates? For adaptability, and a wider field of view I lean to the dwarf personally. Did you make a purchase? Thanks for any help or feedback.
@@rickwhitfield7617 Alt/Az mounts suffer from field rotation. The earth is rotating with respect to the polar axis and unless you angle your scope along the polar axis your image will also rotate. You can only take short subs of around 10s before the image blurs too much. You also get image clipping as the rectangle field of view rotates with time. This is really noticed at an hour or above integration time. The other effects is strange circular artifacts called walking noise and other effects. Polar alignment will prevent much of these effects. You still need auto guiding to get longer exposures, but polar alignment helps a lot with both sharpness and sub times.
Get both❤
Amen
Nice fair review Scott
What are their respective magnification capabilities? Do they accomplish it by digital interpolation or AI upscaling?
Very good video. You forgot to mention that the Dwarf has a removable battery. I bought a Dwarf and I haven’t been able to use it yet because of the weather. However, in early May, I decided to buy the Seestar as well because I think that way I have both options: wide image with less details and narrow image with more details. However, I still don’t have the Seestar because it seems that there is too much demand and they are being shipped very slowly. As a final suggestion, I would like to see an updated course on your channel on how to use Siril to process images and also how to use other tools such as solar video frame extraction tools for later processing or how to use GIMP in astrophotography. Thank you for your video.
Will keep your video suggestions in mind✌🏼
They both have removable batteries, that’s a must in my book 🙂👍
@recurso have you received your SEESTAR yet? If yes and you’ve got to use both, what’s your experience been like?
@@dannymartinez3600 Yes, I received it. The Dwarf is a bit more complicated to use than the Seestar. The Seestar offers better images, but its field of view is much narrower than the Dwarf's, for example, the Andromeda galaxy is impossible to photograph in its entirety, only a part of it. The Seestar does not allow many camera adjustments or the option to stack photos with exposures longer than 10 seconds, and it also discards many photos, which can be a bit frustrating. I believe the Dwarf will soon receive a new software update that will greatly improve the image quality and ease of use, but I am still waiting for that. I am happy to have both and I think I will use them at the same time.
We still haven't seen what the new software for the dwarf will bring to the party ..
Imagine what second or third generations of these scopes will be like! I’m going to wait. See how the Star Adventurer evolved in not too much time.
Curious what you think of Unistellar, and the Vespera
Let’s clarify what these are. These are designed as eaa setups not astrophotography rigs that require post processing hours of exposure time. The point is to go out and look at the sky like you would with a visual scope but with more detail and color. That’s all. I ordered the SeeStar for this reason. I have an astrophotography rig and a a few visual scopes. The SeeStar will probably replace my 8 inch dob for grab n go backyard viewing and to take on road trips and camping. Probably take it to friends houses when hanging over there.
Edit: 9/19/2023, I’m seeing some really good wide field images from the SeeStar if you want to stack and post process. But I’ll still say this is primarily aimed at EAA for a near real time viewing experience.
Do what you like with it. Youll be able to download individual images soon and stack and post process yourself.
The Dwarf 2 still holds up well, trouble is only 1/4 the aperture,
This makes a difference as the Seestar has greater resolution due to larger aperture. While the Dwarf 2 has the advantage of a much larger field of view, but can also be it's downfall, larger field of view Means much smaller image scale, making it harder to see the detail.
As the Seestar has a smaller field of view, means bigger image scale so easier to see detail.
To see more detail on Dwarf 2 need to crop. Both actually compliment each other. I have the Dwarf 2, and getting Seestar also.
Also as you can EQ mount the Dwarf 2, it does it does mean its better for more serious astrophotography so Dwarf 2 wins out here, and at the moment can stack all tiff from Dwarf 2. If your more into astrophotography being able to EQ mount the Dwarf 2 has the big advantage and a game changer.
Also the Dwarf 2 is actually. More versatile as not only can you turn off the ir filter, but use 1.25" filters.
With the Seestar, cannot turn off the ir cut filter and the lazy geek thinks adding other filters may not be a good idea. His testing so far shows Seestar is worse using other filters.
But if you can, why not buy both, as both are a great buy. For what the Dwarf 2 does its amazing, and out of the box, think, Seestar can get away with less processing and get better results without heavy post processing
Exactly! You just summed up the entire video in one comment!😂
Actually Cuiv sad the exact opposite about his use of an external filter. He thought his test was inconclusive for reasons he gave later .
I have a DWARF II, not sure I like the ‘vertical’ image of the SeeStar. I would like to be able to add a lens to the DWARF to give a longer focal length for planets etc
Can't the dwarf 2 do Equatorial or altazimuth shots?
After the post process what’s the image resolution? Reason for asking was wondering if you could crop the dwarfs 2 image and in large it?😮
I went for the Dwarf 2 due to its portability. I will take it for hiking and biking. The Seestar is simply too large and heavy for that.
I agree! I actually climbed a mountain with my dwarf ii and hid an engagement ring in the bag, and engagement to my girlfriend at the top of the mountain. She had no idea i had the ring because she never checks my telescope bag
@@ScottCastrophotography This is the best reply I've ever read LOL! Nice one Scott, my wife's crackin up! Your video has really generated so many fun comments to read & your responses are so very helpful regarding this new world of portable mini Telescopes.
@@HideOut55007 haha thank you😄 it was a fun real experience with dwarf ii 😂
I didnt polar align my dwarf but I did play around with my camera tilt angle and used the controller to move the dwarf out of curiousity and this seems to have messed up my motor function already posted it on the fb group.
Great comparison Scott. I already have the Dwarf II, but 'm thinking about also buying the Seestar. Portability is important for me, because I don't drive a car and I need to walk to the dark area (luckily) not far from my house. From my on all sides enclosed balcony I have a view from east via south to west and I can attach the Dwarf II on the outside of the balcony. Not sure if that's possible with the Seestar. By the way, what size is the screw of the Seestar tripod? Is that 1/4 or bigger?
It’s a standard tripod mount as far as i know 🙂👍. The dwarf is a great scope, but the s50 is more comparable to the (much more expensive) vespera….
Forgot to mentiont hat I really like the app for the Seestar. I think user experience is very important and the Seestar app looks like a lot of fun. At least more fun than the current Dwarf II app. Maybe the upcoming update of the app will bring some change in that.
Filter set is extra $100 if i recall, it also needs to plste solve before going to specific target. Seestar from m y first run of the equipment it didn't need calibration before going to specific targets.
Dwarf doesn't require bias or flats, only astro darks, and so does Seestar, that is what the enhancement session is, it's actually just dark frames being taken.
@@ScottCastrophotography thanks. Edited my comment
This should be interesting.
First test on a Galaxy in a while😏
Thanks for the video Scott I think the seastar is a great alternative to getting into astrophotography The Price is Right do you think I will be able to take a picture of the comet?
Yes! It actually has a comet tracking feature!
dwarf II takes darks when you start it for the first time and implements those darks to the images
Seestar takes darks at the beginning of the image too
Just watched the video. Well done! I would highlight the dwarf’s ability for STA mode connection. That means you do not have to be near the telescope, as long as it is within your router’s range. What about battery life? The dwarf is not very good. The Seestar needs to be absolutely levelled in order to calibrate?
If Seestar is not leveled, it will not track properly, Hence why it can't be polar aligned. Battery life is pretty much the same as dwarf ii maybe just half an hour longer if not connected to power.
Got the Seestar S50 just a week ago but then it started Raining. And since its suddenly sunny in a very unpredictable Welsh skies.
It only took under 2 minutes to setup and calibrate to start solar imaging. Really game changer.
And I bet that Celestron Origin at a whooping 3,999 USD pricetag does it even better since it has a bigger RASA telescope and a better camera.
The seestar should be available in my country for december
Is it possible to do live video of the stars with zwo Seestar?
Ye
If you still have to go through all the processing rigmarole then I'd prefer just buying a small refractor on a GTi and get better results.
You don't have to, it's up to your preferences. At half the price too
Thats what i thought too and was considering a gti for my refractor and dslr until I was reminded that i would need to add a camera tethered to a laptop and an altair for plate solving! A n d that the longer focal/bigger aperture would translate into shorter and shorter exp times …
Now that five months have passed since you made this comparison video, seems a lot has changed with the software of these two scopes and I am having a difficult time deciding between the two. One thing I would like to have seen was a crop of the Dwarf Lab II image to bring it to same relative side as the SeeStar 50 and then see how sharp it looks by comparison. Have you done that? And after 5 months, have you picked a favourite, and if so, why? Thank you for your videos!
Higher resolution always wins.
Seestar clearly wins for me as an amature who never made astrophotography. I think the comparisson is not relly fair as the real competition for Seestar is the Vaois Vespera.
The reason these are put to compete is because they are the same price point. Vespera pricing is way up there
@@ScottCastrophotographydoes Vespera merit the increase on the price? Thank you.
@@Menudaesmiberza I have learned that the creator of the video only gets notified about a main comment in the video, so when you respond to a comment they already answered to you, they don't get the notification so you will wait forever. If you want him to see your answer, you need to make a new main comment :)
I like Dwarf 2 more than seestar. As Dwarf 2 supports polaris alignment, and it is very portable. The best telescope is always the one you used at the most of the time, I can take my Dwarf 2 whenever I have a trip.
@jimmy
the best scope is the one you can use the most. Great point!
waiting on a pre-ordered s50 now. I'm looking forward to having something easier than my 12" dob to share w people away from my house ;-)
4:30 allows your image to be much larger??
Yes, if you eliminate field rotation you won't have to crop, meaning your final image would be wider than an image that isn't polar aligned👍🏼
Hi,
How long do these companies take between receiving an order and shipping it out ? Thanks.
If you order from Dwarflab in the link i have in the description, you could expect it in one or two weeks, but Seestar is on preorders right now if you order now you'd get it maybe next year🥲
@@ScottCastrophotography Thanks. That's exactly what happened! I had no experience with ”preorders”. 😁 (Oh! you say ”MAYBE” !? You mean, ”perhaps still this year, if you're lucky” - I hope! )
Anyone laugh when he said "buy both"? at that point, you could just buy a Sky-Watcher Heritage-150P Flextube Virtuoso GTi and use live stacking in sharp cap with a budget SvBony camera for much less money and you can record far more objects, both wide and tiny. This is what i use, though i do use my Canon 1300d too attached to the telescope. All controlled from any android phone or tablet.
If I'm being honest I've never heard of that setup before. Sounds interesting I'd like to check it out. Could you send me a link for those?
Well, i posted a reply and it disappeared. There are youtubers who use a similar setup.
My opinion on the two, i would choose the ZWO Seestar, ZWO are huge when it comes to astrophotography, they'll fix anything with software updates as they always do with their other hardware.
I also use a basic Goto alt/az visual scope for AP, in my case I use a 12” Goto Dobsonian (Orion XT2G). I think what we are seeing is that with modern low read noise CMOS cameras, fast low cost computing, and advanced processing, many of these low cost unguided Alt/Az systems can now do basic deep Sky AP as long as they are motorized and controllable from some type of computer, whether that be a built in system or an external system (ex: NINA fully automates mine even though it was never intended to be an AP rig). So I can imagine future vendors of basic small Goto scopes putting together fairly easy to use AP packages, or at least better enabling them to be configured for AP. That’s in addition to more of these all-in-one turnkey systems coming out. There is going to be a revolution in easier to use low cost AP and EAA in the next few years.
@@stevenmiller5452 I have used the Stelina and eVscope, these scopes are ok but they are extremely limited, they don't compete with any astrophotography setup at less than a quarter of the price, the sensors are good, the one in the Seestar has the same sensor as the ZWO ASI 462MC Camera. The more they start creating addons, the more it becomes another setup and moves away from the whole portable aspect that makes them appealing.
You can create your own more flexible setup with a Sky-Watcher Heritage-114P Virtuoso, astro cam and Sharpcap which also has live stacking.
The biggest problem with these telescopes like Seestar, if something breaks, getting it fixed outside of warranty is not going to be easy and they have a fixed magnification, filters are not easy to attach, they have to cover the whole objective lens making them cost much more than a traditional filter for telescopes.
My opinion though, Seestar is the best one, ZWO should improve on their software, they have good reputation, the specs are on par with the Vespera, this is the one i am considering, i just wish they used a 4k sensor like the IMX678 that the ZWO ASI 678MC Camera uses because photos look like thumbnails on 4k screens and wouldn't have cost any more as both sensors cost the same.
There is one way to get around the magnification limitation, they could use a longer focal length and have a mechanical focal reducer, this would increase the price but would work.
For me it's the portability of them. They are very small compared to other setup. Not really about the money
Seestar doesn't polar align because it doesnt use it. The mount is an alt az and there's no reason to polar align. Has nothing to do with compass.
Dwarf II is also and Alt/Az mount and can be polar aligned and the software still will plate solve and go to target. The issues with the Dwarf II was how the tiny motors would support the telescope not vertically align. I have seen in the forums that it will support being inclined. I also heard in the Seestar forums that the software will most likely not support polar alignment, because the telescope will not be able to function correctly in an inclined position. The forums mentioned that the telescope has to be levelled and uses the compass to plate solve and find it’s initial start position (Dwarf II does not require this). They also mention mechanical issues and if it’s driveshaft/motors will support being in an inclined position. They also suggest this will also make it difficulty to support mosaic mode that can be used in their ASIAir device, which the S50’s software is based. To me this is a shame since it would solve the two biggest issues with the S50 (small field of view and field rotation). This leaves the future open for a 50mm apo chromatic smart telescope which supports polar alignment and mosaic mode at a sub $1000 price point. I am sure we will see this soon, as this would truly blur the lines between full rig Astro rig. It would be a full slam dunk if they they had auto guiding also. A dual camera system or Split View could allow this. We live in a wonderful time for astronomy, just as the stars are slipping through our vision as light pollution and satellites are ruining our view.
@@MrCornweda no reason to suspect the S50 isn't robust enough to be tilted at a modest angle. Except speculation. Seems very compact and sturdy to me. It's a trivial software change and some third party is likely to do it .
@@rackmasterhIt is more than just whether it can be inclined, but problems such as how well it will track mechanically. So far it has not been tested that I know of and the existing software will not support it (it will fail initial setup in this position). The S50 existing system as we see in Scott’s video makes it even more beginner friendly and you just have to turn it on and it will take dark flats and automatically align. I don’t own either scopes, but can only comment on what I read and saw. I have a Celestron Nexstar 8SE and you can use a wedge to polar align the telescope on it’s Alt/Az mount, but it is not recommended. For smaller scopes like the S50, it might not affect the tracking as badly. The Dwarf being so light and having such a wide field of view would definitely do better.
Why dont you use Darks with Dwarf?
It already has the astro darks built in with the sub exposures. Whenever i use astro darks in siril with dark files too it ends up adding more noise instead of reducing it
@@ScottCastrophotography really, so dwarf firmware applies darks to individual subs , then stacks the calibrated files? Interesting
@shanekelly4836 yup 😄 that's why the subs, if astro darks are taken correctly, rarely have a lot of noise or hot pixels
Great field of view means nothing if your resolution is poor. Always go with a better resolution. As for portability, if it fits in the back of my car, it's portable. No serious amateur astronomer takes their telescope hiking, not even the semi-serious ones. Although, I have heard of a few non-serious astronomers have taken theirs to the beach.
LOL at you! Serious like you? LOL! Loads of people use scope on the beach! Nice and dark skies! LOL!!
@@DonnyHooterHoot You need to reread my post, you do not understand what was said.
Tons of serious amateur astronomers have to go to dark sites to image. So yes they do take their gear hiking. You can’t image if you live in a metro area.
This is such an awesome review, Thank You! I also have both platforms & both are super EZ and fast to setup. My experience has been the Dwarf II is a little better on planets, and for me, they've been super close to the same on Galaxy's, Nebulas & Clusters. I love the comment "Get Both" LOL. But Seriously, just be happy with either one, they're so close in capabilities that once you get one or the other dialed in & a clear night, you'll be having fun!
Right On! Is the Dwarf 2 better on planets because of the higher resolution sensor? I noticed that the Dwarf has an 8MP & SeeStar is only 2MP.
Exactly, i honestly can't say one is better than the other because each have their own benefits, if that makes sense. Clear skies my friend!
@@bluegrassmagee8697 i have yet to try Seestar for planetary. I'll let you know
@ScottCastrophotography Awesome Thank You! I'm really blown away with how you switched between the 2 scopes. That seems impossible for me, guess it's why my kids tease me that I can't multi task LOL!
Trust me when I say, it wasn't easy😂
Also the people of DWARFLAB s are still working on improving the dwarfs app by including an ASIAIR style atlas’s for their device, things can only get better for the Little device. Also I have a telescope that’s controlled by the ASIAIR plus buying the seestar fir me will be a waste of money.
Yup. As i said, up to preference. And i have a new announcement from Dwarflab coming soon✌🏼✌🏼
@@ScottCastrophotographyah, come on. He has a dwarf 2 and is salty he didn’t get the s50. You often can see it in the comments of s50 videos. If you see what the backlog of the Seestar software contains I’m interested to see a comparison in half a year or so. Maybe something for you? 😉👍
@@erebostdyou don’t speak for me how do you know I’m salty, yep I do own the dwarf2 I was mulling over which one I was going to buy I chose the dwarf 2.
@@ScottCastrophotography Give us a hint man! :)
@@erebostd You seem very biased towards ZWO and attack individuals personally and assume you know their thoughts.
I have a question. If I had more see stars like maybe four of them looking at the same object for the same amount of time what do you think the end result would be like? Obviously there be more data but will that be helpful? The reason why I ask is that the units are relatively portable and cost-effective
Your image would probably blow the minds of everyone who sees it. The image here was 3 hours of integration time, now imagine with 12, which is what you're saying. That would be incredible
Do you mean you have 4 seestars that you want to focus on 1 object, that will create 1 picture, how would that work, software speaking?
@@jordydewolde4308 guess I mean using four SeeStars on the same Target for the same integration time. You would have four times the data to add together to make one image
what Scott said, though 2 should be enough..if you wanna blow our minds off 🙂
Good video, lots of good facts. The conclusion is laughable. But entertaining none the less.