Can You Trust Your Framing Square? Valley Jack Mistake
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2023
- Here is episode 76 that Scott is referring to in this video:
Cutting Valley and Jack Rafters for a Gable Dormer Ep.76 • Cutting Valley and Jac...
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Your humility is unsurprising, Scott, but still appreciated and valued. Yet again you provide life lessons to us that extend beyond the subject that you are ostensibly covering.
You are my version of Mr Hart. Thank you for your very special channel. Any son on the face of this planet would be proud to call you his friend and father
Please keep churning out this invaluable content sir.
Nobility is not being superior to your fellow man, its being superior to your former self.
-Ernest Hemingway.
Brilliant demonstration of that fact right here.
In a world filled with calculators, it's still nice to know how to do things the old fashion way.
What an honorable man. Your value extends far beyond youtube and carpentry. Thank you for this episode.
You are a great example of lifelong learning. And what a wonderful tribute to your mentor.
Scott you were so right about Neil Hart. As you know Dixonville would have never been the great place to grow up without Neil and Betty. Each of us that grew up there are better because of their influences.
Thank you for reminding me of the Harts and keep up the great work.
Love it my man. I'm a HS teacher that truly knows math. This is the stuff of legends that teaches math as life not math as theory.
My paternal grandfather was a master carpenter, his son (my dad) a pretty fair amateur. Just wish I’d spent more time and attention to the things they were trying to teach me. But, my father-in-law (also a excellent master carpenter, millwright, contractor and perfectionist) was shocked when I (a licensed, professional engineer) pulled out a hand saw and successfully made a quick cut. The look on his face was just so satisfying. I still have many of grandpa’s tools and admit I don’t use them often or anywhere near as good as he did but they represent something really special to me - those days as a young boy, sitting alongside him on the front porch and listening to him talk to friends and neighbors. On this Fathers’ Day, I miss all three so much and appreciate their example and things they taught me.
I learn about human character from Essential Craftsman. Well done, sir.
Best Carpenters chanel I have ever watch This man is a great teacher for anyone wanting to learn how to build a house
Great episode! As an engineer I’ve had to analyze and solve a lot of problems. Sometimes the hardest thing is challenging your base assumptions, but often times that is where the greatest lesson resides.
Man what I wouldnt give to have you as my neighbor. Ive kept up with you from very early on. And Im so glad I found you. Thank you for everything you have brought to the online world in the last several years.
SCOTT!! Thank you for this!! I caught this error in the Dewalt framing book as well. They said the same thing! I was like NOOOO!! it's ALWAYS a 45 with equally pitched hip roofs. This is for HANDSAW use only!!!
Never to old or proud to learn!
You my man could have been teacher or something in your past life cause when you r describing something it just clicks with me and makes all the sense in the world
You are one of my youtube heroes. Thanks for passing on knowledge.
Side cut length of jack rafters is still a handy table! For hips/valleys if you times it by 4, thats your out of square for a plywood pattern. You can also use it for when you have an overhang soffit coming down a roof using it the way you did as 8.5/12. Not exactly everyday things definitely helpful though.
You have to love a guy who is willing to admit he’s mistake and will take the time to explain it. Don’t just sit there, keep up the good work! 😊
How do you handle negativity in your life? Kill it with kindness! Thank you for the much needed lesson.
As a 30 something without a dad or even granddad to teach me these things I appreciate what you bring to the world. I'm very much self taught but always open to new ideas and advice. Ive gotten a lot out of your channel over the years. I appreciate of late you have begun mentioning folks like Jordan Peterson and some others. As a man in this world, its a tough gig. Blokes like you make it a bit easier. Thanks for everything
Neil Hart sounds like a super guy. Great to hear that he was involved in Scouting...a program that is near and dear to my heart.
My grandfather was a roofing Carpenter & worked 10 yrs past retirement. Many nice things were learnt, but outside work wasn't a good idea. He built a lathe for turning wood & I'm about to do a similar thing. Lots of good ideas for people as carpenters.
It is a rare man that can call a foul on himself and highlight a mistake. Bravo!
You are an inspiration to tradesmen.
Great example of how two things can be correct. Scott’s not wrong, the answer just changes as the tools at hand change.
Yeah, but in the original video he said to set that angle on the skil saw, which *is* straight up incorrect.
@@andrewalexander9492 Yup. I think I made a mistake once, and it was embarrassing. 😎😎
I either forgot or didn't know you were a fellow Oregonian. No wonder your carpentry knowledge & mine align so much, I got a 5-6 yr earlier start, (late '60's), but only about 100 miles north of you, in Lebanon.
I can't call the 2nd gen carpenter I worked for a mentor since his teaching style was 'pay attention to what I'm doing & be able to do it when I tell you to.' It was exactly like his positive reinforcement policy; non existent.
Fortunately, I also worked w/ my 3rd gen carpenter step-dad until lung cancer got him in '75, he had teaching & positive feedback enough for 3-4 people.
Did learn how to cuss in very creative ways by the other guy, especially when he'd mis-cut a rafter!
Many years later, (mid '90's), the guy I worked for came to Portland, where I was just finishing a recording studio.
A career crowning acheivement, I invited him to the 90% complete job site. His son, 6yrs younger & who'd worked w/ us as a teen, was bailing me out on a couple of aspects where subs had flaked on me, so the visit was dual purpose; see his son, see the job.
The next day, the son said to me, 'Wow, the old man was really impressed w/ the studio. Never heard say as much about anybody or any job as he did about you.'
'Really?', thinking he'd perhaps changed in his later years of life, (I hadn't worked for him for 30+ yrs). 'What'd he say?'
Without cracking a smile, he answered, 'He did a pretty good job on that studio.'
LOL... what our generation has done to break that cycle & keep the younger generations from experiencing THAT is hard to explain.
Even if you were lucky w/ & had a true mentor, you surely know of what I speak.
GeoD
Where this top cut mark is important, is when you have a large valley or jack that you need to cut with a circular saw. Just as Scott showed, you mark the the top, scribe your jack rafter all the way around. On a 12/12 pitch, the top cut is not 45 degrees. Use your framing square side cut measurements to find the value for the tongue side of the square. When you cut 2 by material with a skill saw, you don’t need this side cut measurement. With much wider material, you do. If you are using a 7 1/4” saw you can’t cut much more than about 2” of material. I once cut a large valley glue lam that was about 7” wide by 26” deep. I scribed all the way around and cut as deep as my skill worm drive would go. Then I finished up with a sawzall.
Cutting with a 8 point crosscut saw like Scott showed divides the men from the boys! I once was in a old court building in Ogden Utah (2018). In the attic, you could see a 10/12 hip roof with large hips and jack material. 4 x 14 hips and 4 x 12 rough sawn jacks. All hand cut. The building was constructed in the 1880s or 1890s. I looked in amazement at the jack cuts and how well they mated up to the hip. Great respect for some long dead carpenter(s)! Beautiful work. I showed the young carpenters with me the work and they were unimpressed, I couldn’t make them see how hard it was to do such a beautiful hand sawn job!
Learned how to use the rafter tables on a square to write my red seal carpentry exam other than that I have rarely used them.
I hope to shake your hand some day. You have inspired me for years, and I will be watching for as long as you make videos. I look up to you as an elder, a man, father and, well as a craftsman. Your videos are always more than a simple how to DIY, and I look forward to a life lesson from you, sir. Nate you do a wonderful job in your videos and with the editing, I am excited to see your house journey, as well as your journey in life with a thriving family around you. Thank you both for your continued honesty, humility and knowledge. Keep up the good work!
Great video mate. Well explained and full respect for taking the time to show how you rectify the past video . A true craftsman never stop learning . Cheers mate from Australia 🇦🇺
So what I learned today - God Bless Circular Saws! 🙂
My hat is off to you Scott. Keep up the good work and remember it's never to late to learn a new trick.
Always love the way you choose your vocabulary, and the fact that you actually think, along with the wisdom that is constantly a part of everything you do. I would like to repay the favor and show you something, but, I would like to ask you one question first: If I told you something absolutely unbelievable, would you...
A: ask me to explain better and provide evidence
B: consider me a crazy fool
I have been doing this for 35 years goes to show you can teach a old dog new tricks thank you
I love your heart lessons and your humble attitude
Sorry that some one would trash a humble soul.
What a great story of your connection with an elder! I really appreciate your ability to continue Neil’s legacy through this channel.
I’m sure I am one of many who would have benefited from a Neil in our young life. But we’re never too old to learn from others.
Well said, it's a very proud and humble person who can admit a mistake, in this case to the world. Our trade needs more guys like you
Thank you for explaining your thoughts and methods.
As I learned carpentry from a master and a masters master, my dad and grandad, I truly understand about not giving up what you were taught.
But as my grandad used to say, if someone can't learn from someone else, they are a fool. He also said he was never wrong, but he could be technically incorrect on occasion .
He used to say a framing square was generally smarter than half the people using them. For a chunk of metal, it is a pretty smart little gadget, if you know how to ask the questions.
When being “wrong” all those years meant still doing it right. Your an honorable man! Happy Fathers Day, y’all.
I remember that episode, and thinking that didn't sound right. Nice correction. One thing I would add is that the side-cut formula is still helpful when marking and cutting hips at the ridge, as they need to be marked and cut from both sides. On a low slope 45º with a speed square works, but as the pitch increases so does the angle across the crown side of the rafter. The saw is still set to 45º, but where to make that cut changes.
I so respect a man with humility. Thanks for your continued videos. Inspiring and educational.
Thank you for your honesty, we can learn from almost everyone!
I'm glad you corrected the error. I'm not so glad someone had to point out the error with a scathing comment rather than a gentle rebuke. A very classy way to handle both sir!
Happy Father’s Day mr Wadsworth!
Watching a guy cut a rafter, with a handsaw, wearing a smart watch. Technology has changed a bit
But did you watch this video on a smart watch, while hand cutting a rafter?
Humility month. You’re a legend Scott.
Greetings from up the road and down the way! We enjoy hearing about Betty and Neil. They were the best folks. I remember Neil parents and his care for them as they aged in place. Thank you for keeping their memory alive. That store was the center of the community in many ways. All those ways brought out the best in us.
Your legend grows
just met you and appreciate what you and Buckin' did today! Ken and Lynne
as always, just great! I grew up learning from a 90 year old man in a woodshop. 1976, Mr. Maurer. thank you!
Even if I were absolutely positive about offering a correction to a professional I'd still frame it as a question for two reasons. One, I've been wrong many times and there's nothing more embarrassing than asserting a falsehood as fact. Two, asserting anything rarely receives a thoughtful response like the one we have here in this video. Internet anonymity emboldens people of weak character to say things in a way they would never say face to face.
Agreed. Framing (ha!) a correction as a question is an excellent strategy for maintaining relationships, whether professional or personal. Sometimes (not always), it's a useful technique when teaching a son / daughter / student / subordinate.
It’s so great to see the old school ways of making complex cuts.
You're an incredibly honorable man. You're a true example of integrity and morality.
God bless you and your family 🙏😇
Excellent videos as always 🙏
There is a lot to love about the maths involved with roofing. Its good to know how to get all the angles, and its good to know the rules of thumb and the shortcuts for those angels. Knowing the right way will get you a good result if you are careful enough, but a lot of roofing can be simplified and a lot of human error taken out. Which really does matter, because people will cut roofs on the ground based on maths because the labor involved otherwise is extreme. There are roofs that test your skills, and where you cant rely on shortcuts, in those situations knowing how to draw out all the angles is great, but it seems the industry doesnt expect that, trusses or detail drawings are pretty common.
Good to see you using the hand saw. I recently acquired (when we cleaned out my parents house) my great grandfather's Henry Disston saw that is over 125 years old. Keep up the good work!
Sir, I learn stuff from you on your channel all the time - not all of it is carpentry and construction. Thank you for all you do! You are appreciated. God Bless!!
You, sir, are the antidote to current modern day buffoonery & clown show. And I thank you.
My late dad was a carpenter of 40 yeears...I'm sure he would have been proud to have you on his jobsite.
Well done and very special coming from someone who is a teacher to many of us out here in internet land. Thanks for sharing.
There is a use for this! Cutting mitered fascia tails in place, going off of a plumb cut rafter if you put your speed square on a 45 and try to transfer heel (short point) of the miter to the toe (longpoint of the miter) across the top edge of the board from back face to the front face and then mark your plumb cut. Because as you explained it Is a compound miter your pencil mark will not be a true 45.
You would do this so you could cut your miter in place from the front face of the fascia with a circular saw referencing off of where the back face meets the plumb cut of the rafter.
This comment brought tears to my eyes and I'm man enought ta say it. My dad passed in 2015 and retired as a 45 year master carpenter, a proud member of the union. I myself am an hvac troubleshooter with the smwa local 20 for the past 15 years. Reading this comment reminded me so much of listening to my father discuss work with his buddies. He was the type of guy that when he talked on a job site, the guys in the circle got quiet and took note. And I'm not sure he ever realized it as such. He was very humble. With fathers day on the horizon I guess it just hit me how much I truly miss this about him. I didnt feel skilled enough in my own field to hold my own in a conversation with him on such job site topics. I wish now that we had more time to share stories and laugh together on his porch sipping tea. All that to say, thank you sir. And Happy Father's Day.
Great video, we all learn more. 😊
Beautiful mea culpa Scott. Thank you.
My uncle a man whom I revered once told me.
A man who can admit a mistake take responsibility for that mistake and correct the mistake is a true craftsman.
There is Great value in having a working grasp at least of the theory behind why things work. Even if for efficiency or convenience those things are never applied grossly they are underpinning the work.
Basic or maybe intermediate question: give that construction grade dimensional lumber has rounded edges, when carrying a mark around a corner, do you try to compensate for where the mark would be on an imaginary sharp edge? Any tips on that? Going for
Admitting when your wrong and the way you do can say more then appearing to always be right, though it’s a strong temptation to all of us who do in fact know a thing or two.
Thanks for the video, I love a good story!
Greatly appreciated!
Great stuff man, just remember when we don't do this shit everyday like cutting rafters on a dormer, or framing up a dutch hip. It's hard to be perfect, And when we're doing this kind of work if we're not making a mistake here and there we ain't doing nothing.
As always thanks
Thanks for the knowledge that you share.
"If you use a hand saw very much, you are going to have a *powerful* right arm." Yes. For a few years anyway, until your joints are destroyed. I truly admire the hard workers of old, who did what they had to with the tools and procedures available to them, and achieved such impressive results. I'm a carpenter who stays in excellent physical condition via hard work, and I intend to still be capable of hard work when I'm 70. For me, "work smarter, not harder" means that highly repetitive motions are minimized (though not eliminated). Nail gun, not hammer. Power saw, not hand saw. Dig with a machine, not all day by hand. Also, the more dangerous tasks are minimized (though not eliminated). Less trips up the ladder. Work from scaffolding instead of ladders. Move big/heavy things with a machine, not 5 people, even if less efficient. Etc.
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their jobsite. It's an individual decision, there is no one right answer for everyone. I am only encouraging everyone to think both short-term *and* long-term when considering the balance between safety and efficiency. (And no, I didn't write this as an argument with Scott. I'm merely using his statement as an excuse to mention a perspective which I think isn't mentioned enough by tradesmen.)
A very wise perspective. It's become OK to denigrate health and safety in certain circles, but nobody should be seen as disposable or collateral damage. Working smarter not harder means you increase your chances of actually getting to retirement, and still have the strength and energy to enjoy it.
My dad taught me how to use a hand saw as a kid in early 70's. The handsaw is the original cordless saw.
Never knew what those numbers were for. Now I guess I know why my dad cussed me for getting welding spatter all over his framing square.
Great video, my friend.
You keep it honest, and real.
My HS wood shop teacher from oh so many years ago is still around and I am thankful to him for my love of wood working today.
Handsaw skills are useful to aquire
Nice save Scott. But knowing the basic principles gives you the skills to attack difficult problems with confidence. And how to use the skill saw to make the cut and why, the skill saw is only a shortcut.
Thanks for the awesome content and great video!!
Another great video
Love this stuff. And your a gem of youtube
Good episode, thanks.
Bravo...
Right on brother
Great story.
Well done my friend.
As always, a class act.
Hello from Ireland Scott! Love your channel
Good on ya
Thank you.
Great story
Great Story
This reminded me of my son´s plumbing apprenticeship with an old school plumber. He learned how to do things from scratch the old school way. Now he has his own crew with a large plumbing outfit doing only new construction where people are moving to nowadays. With his base knowledge he is able to solve all manner of problems that come up on a daily basis. If you know the reason for the rule, no problem is unsolvable.
Thank You again!! KUTGW
Amazing story ! You don’t have those guys around anymore! Love the channel! You are a true artist. I’ve been a craftsman for 20 years and just want to burrow myself in the deep woods. I’m so tired of living on this small 5,000 plus acre ranch. I want to move to the mountains and build cabins for my family and live off the land. I have the skills just need to make the move. Keep up the great work! From The Texas hill country with love.
Good stuff! Also, I've never seen anyone make a cheek cut with a hand saw 💪 great for video but definitely wouldn't want to cut the whole roof like that lol
There was another fella that admitted his mistakes. Turns out he took credit for providing a hole mess of complainers with water. He didn’t have to include that account in the book he was inspired to write but it showed a level of honesty and humility that even his Boss admired. In fact he was well known for his meekness. Scott, thank you for showing such qualities, you’re in good company.
Whoa.
Is Neal Hart related to Bob Hart the tool maker? I still have my Hart framing and trim hammers in use today, I bought over 25+ years ago
Thanks Scott your never to old to eat crow it sucks but it’s food for our brain see you next one
New isn't always better - after spending hours searching the latest battery powered circular saws or 'skill saws' - I have come to realise I should spend a ten of the cost of a new saw and buy a longer cord and rewire my mains powered saw - its fine its powerful and still true