Thank You. Read an article 40 maybe 50 years ago about a guy, reloading for his Pro Shooter Wife that the first shot from her revolver was all over the place but subisquent shots were on spot. Conclusion was that when she drew from the holster, the powder was at the bullet end of the cartridge. The following rounds had a level out powder charge; what you just proved here. God Bless and stay safe.
That was why in old cowboy movies (20's/30's) they always pointed the muzzle up in the air before lowering to shoot. It settled the powder onto the primer for more bang and smoke.
with some powders (aa5 in particular) this can go very extreme in our long wheelgun cases, i did a .38 special load with aa5 that was pretty much +p+ (.35/44, 158gr at ~1200fps) but when you start using the load with the muzzle down first they were barely leaving the barrel, to the point they were clearly tumbling at 25 yards. when you first pointed the muzzle skyward it was definitely one spicy .38 so yeah, i think i'd stick my target loads for .45 and .44 in the .45 cowboy specials and .44 russians instead...
My nightstand gun is a S&W model 1917 from a 1927 South American contract. I load it with pure lead 230 grain bullets at 700 FPS in .45 AutoRim cases. Pretty close to what you have created here. Don't underestimate the deadlyness of them. It will penetrate a WhiteTail deer from front right shoulder to left rear hip at 30 yards. It is a formidable home defense load..
The 45 Cowboy Special is very close in size to the 455 Webley Mk1 blackpowder cartridge too. just a slight trimming needed. 18grs of Swiss 4Fg under a 265 gr bullet should get about 750 fps from a 6" revolver!
I still don't know 100% what i can and cannot show as far as load data, I mean "recipes". I am kind of amazed what I have been able to get away with a little discretion, like showing how to load batteries as slugs, etc.
Regarding your smokeless loads, one possibility for the wimpiness may be the fact that you’ve essentially increased the amount of freebore. That bullet is now having to jump a lot further distance to engage rifling, hampering the ignition and burn rate. A few years ago I had all but mastered reloading 22 long rifle. I found out with my smokeless loads that they would fire just fine in my Henry lever gun and would cycle in my Ruger 22/45 autoloader but were very sporadic out of a heritage Roughrider and would squib just about every time.
I busted out laughing when you said you were going to trim your 45 Colt cartridges down to 45 ACP size using a Lyman case trimmer!!! As I'm sitting here using my Lyman case trimmer to trim my 38 SPL brass down to 38 Colt for my 1851 Navy conversion cylinder. I immediately thought "I'll check back in a couple weeks". I guess the laughs were on me. How did you mount a drill onto that trimmer? I've been trimming these damn things for two days straight!!!
I made my own cowboy special too. Made them from magtech and starline cases, the starline brass had to be reamed out on the inside to get my 200 grains big lube bullet to seat witout a bulge. The magtech brass is thinner and thickens way deeper then the starline brass. I also had my sizer die reamed out because most (all) of the sizer dies I had were too tight and caused a lot of brass to last only 4 reloads, even with blackpowder. Because the O.D. of the case was then larger I could get a roll crimp with a standard 45 ACP seaterdie . My load was 18 grains of the cheapest 3F (ish) I could find, slight compression with the bullet (about 3mm). Used the same charge in my Rossi 92 with cous cous filler. I must say that I only used magtech brass in my rifle, that chamber was on the outside of the specs and my vaqueros were a bit tighter. After I reamed out my sizerdie I never lost brass due to splitting.
First time I have ever heard of you or watched your videos. I have to say, I am impressed. Loved the format and most importantly, the info and content. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Except it wasn't developed by Starline. While they were they were the original manufacturer, it was developed by a cowboy action shooter who went by the alias Adirondak Jack. And it was developed especially for cowboy action. RCBS makes an 45ACP roll crimp seater die. RCBS #18942
The guy that invented this cartridge, Adirondack Jack, recommended using the Hornady 3 die set # 546554 for 45 ACP/ AR / Win because it uses a roll crimp. Thanks for the great videos that you put out !!!
I've found that if you remove the sky screens on a cloudy day, the chrony will detect the bullet better. Granted, I have a 30 year old Chrony F1. YMMV. I can't tell what you are using and if that's applicable. Neat video though. Might give the special loads a try.
They will work in some revolvers chambered in 45ACP, if the cylinder doesn't come back to the recoil shield and if you load the Cowboy 45 Special like 45ACP (452 bullet, etc.) Shot a lot through Ruger Vaqueros. I also modified a Marlin 1894 45 Colt to feed and shoot them.
Using Trail Boss powder solves the problem of light loads in large capacity cases like the .45 Colt. It is a very bulky low pressure powder designed specifically to fill up all the powder space in cases to maintain a stable powder position and give consistent pressures.
I use trail boss all the time and when I make a video using it people tell me they can’t get it. So I make a video on short cartridges with faster burning powder and people tell me to just use trail boss. Lol go figure…
@@Everythingblackpowder Aint you got it figured out yet ? NOTHING is ever good enough for some people !! LOL As far as I am concerned this is another very informative Video That YOU (and not a naysayer)have made. Thank's
They stopped making trail boss back in 2021ish, I think. Rumor mills talk about the powder plant upgrading their lines to restart production, but when? I'll just stick to BP or even pyrodex if I have to.
In the 45 Colt chambers, the bullet will clear the Cowboy case before the bearing surface enters the throat of the chamber. That's roughly a .452" bullet in a .480" chamber before it hits the throat. So there is going to be some gas blow-by, and loss of velocity. I tried Starline 45CS brass with a .452" cast bullet and it is a snug fit to a no-go fit in a 45ACP cylinder, but the bullet is in the throat as it leaves the case, so not the blow-by situation. Enjoyed the vid, thanks for sharing!
You always seem to have helpful information with safety included with each video! I had a thought for your chronograph, would it be feasable to put an LED light hood over it (battery operated)? And im still looking to see someone in the bushes with a pot and hammer…again great shooting!!
I made some of these back in 1991 and wondered if anyone else ever had the idea. I used to actively participate in a lot of gun forums and remember when people started talking about doing it for cas shooting. I used a discontinued LEE die back then to load them, but a LEE 45 acp die will roll crimp. LEE ACP dies can adjust from taper to full roll albeit idk if it will reduce the bullet dia. because I haven't made any of these in many years and just don't recall. A Redding profile crimp die is basically a LEE bullet seating die (with different dimensions) with the stem and adjustment cap removed. I've often wondered why no one ever mentions this, but understand why LEE wouldn't...they've been in bed with Redding since at least the late 80's...
Kinda a cool idea I think karl from in range had some sort of device to shoot short cases like that in a lever guns some time back you might wanna find one
For the 1917, I guess if the .45 Cowboy brass has too much play, maybe the clips can help? Optionally, winding some metal wire around to base, adding height to the rim for spacing. Admittedly very ghetto, I got this idea from some police evidence photo where someone had done this to try to fit 9mm Luger in a .38 Special revolver. I've also seen a really old IDF archive photo where someone had used a hammer and punch to ding up the head of 9mm Luger cartridges, creating these little jagged 'flanges' so that they would sit on the extractor of a .38 Special revolver, because apparently there was no .38 Special ammo around at that very moment. I would not expect good reliability doing either of these, but it's probably not catastrophically dangerous.
I remember reading a thread on the SASS forum years ago from the original developer of the cowboy special, Adirondack Jack I think. He said he told Starline to take a 45 Colt and take the extra lenght out of the center of the cartridge. That way the mouth of the case is not too thick due to the internal taper. Thus a factory Cowboy Special is just a little bit better than making you own from cut down 45 Colts.
Nice stuff, thank you for sharing. I would love to see a deeper dive into loading .45 Colt. You know my focus on historical shooting, so I'm trying to recreate the M1873 cartridge as closely as I can (except for the Benet primers, of course). I had a custom mold made to produce a close match for the bullet, but no one can definitively tell me how much crimp I should have or how much I should be compressing the powder. I know the Fascists hate it when people talk about this kind of thing, so if you happened to think of a way around their ridiculous rules I'd love to see a deep dive into this. I'm using 35 grains of Swiss 3F, and this week the "plug" that holds the ejector assembly on my Colt 1860 Kirst conversion revolver worked its way halfway out of the tube from the old loading lever assembly, so I do think I'm going to have to cut my charges down a bit. LOL! I also used a Howell conversion cylinder to shoot the same cartridges from my Remington NMA, and the power was so great it drive the loading lever into the latch that holds it hard enough to break it off, which also might be considered nature's way of telling me to lighten the load.
Nice video. I have about 500 of the 45 Cowboy Special brass that I got but never got around to loading yet. Mainly because I don’t shoot 45acp and didn’t have the dies handy. One of these days maybe I’ll load some up. Thanks for another cool video.
I was making up some rounds for a friend's m1867 Remington RB in 50 Remington navy. Lucked out and found a bulled mold that would work and some reproduction brass. But could not find any dies for it so ended up making a crimping die from scratch and the reloaded cases seem to chamber just fine so we are just not going to bother with a sizing die. I had some accurate 5744 on hand so worked up a safe load for him to plink with. It might be worth looking into making a crimp die for your shortened rounds. The one I made was just mystery steel and did a crude heat treat, seems to be holding up ok.
such a cool fun lil round. i have a brass framed remmington with cartridge conversion. i dont want to stretch the frame out. so i load blanks for 45lc for the fourth of july. but i fire 45 cowboy special out of it, 45 acp dies taper crimp, with 230 grain powder coated round nose and 20grs of powder. ive done 17grs and it could prolly fit 22 grs if loaded to the brim and compressed. but 20 just feels right with a lil bit of compression.
Velocity is right in the neighborhood of plinker 45 ACP. I have the same chrony and it just likes having the sunshields on, even on cloudy days, to give it a monochromatic background to contrast the bullet shadow.
Thanks for the awesome content, keep it up! You can mount that case trimmer to a solid chunk of wood, then just clamp it in your bench vice. Works for mine!
I cut the case down to almost the correct length with a tubing cutter, then finish with the case trimmer and deburring tool. I use the same method to make 7.62x25 Tok brass from .223 brass.
I had to convert some 44 magnum brass into 44 Russian brass for an antique revolver. I had to pre trim the brass with a tubing cutter because my lyman case trimmer cutter dulled out after making about 8 cases with a full trim. And when loaded you want to talk thick brass? The loaded rounds were too big to fit in the chamber. I had to run the loaded ammo back through the resizing die with out the decapping pin, then they chambered just fine.
I've made .45 CS brass out of .45 Colt with the same trimmer however I haven't been to the range to test yet. I'll be shooting them out of a .45 Colt adapter in my SBS shotgun. I use .45 Schofield dies and can't remember what type of crimp they have. I'm guessing it's a roll crimp!
years ago I needed to make some 45/60 cartridges out of 45/70's I simply took a small tubing cutter, marked em for length and voila in about 30 minutes I converted 20 cartridges to 45/60 . Of course I wasnt going to do comp shooting so length to the .001" didnt matter. LOL
I ise the cowboy special brass loaded to around 800 fps according to the reloading book for the triple shot with live ammo. I use 45 acp dies and load data. They work good gonna try some black powder loads eventually
Cutting down to that size would be a good way to use those short Hornady FTX cases that keep somehow slipping into my supply of brass. I've been tossing them...
Redding Profile Crimp die trimmed back so it will crimp the the mouth of the Cowboy Special case. Hell, they might make you one. As for all the empty space in any handgun case, I take insulating foam that wraps a pipe and sharpen the mouth of a case to saw out little plugs and put them in place before the slug goes in, works good for me, use them over powder and under shot for snake loads, they do lead the barrel with shot.
Thank you. I got an email from Hodgdon a few months ago saying that trail boss is NOT discontinued and should be hitting shelves in late October. I’m keeping my fingers crossed
My only concern with using them in the 1917 would be headspace issues. It might fire fine or it might have light primer strikes if they are a little floppy due to the thinner rim. Dont know if they would slam back into the frame either and cause isues. Very interested to see the results. I doubt there would be any serious issues with yhe pressures your working with.
I use 45 Schofield brass in by 45 when I want to make a more efficient burning load in my single action Colt,they used to make 45 rimmed that was used in double action old Colts so you didn't have to use moon clips,the rim may have to be thinned a bit depending on each individual gun its used in,I use them in my 455 Webly.
I was given some 45 cowboy brass. I cant tell if i love them or hate them. For my original SAAs i run light loads most of the time. So using these just for the originals seems like a good idea. But it seem they are leading the barrel very quickly compared to normal 45 colt. I am thinking its because the bullet is traveling further until it hits the rifling. so it should be traveling much faster by the time it hits the rifling compared to regular 45 colt. I am still testing and haven't given up on them yet.
As a Younger and Thinner shooter with 30 06 surplus all over the place, more than 308 in the early 90's? I wanted to load a few 308's but had NO Brass as I had No 308 in these days. Soooo? thinking swiftly, I cut down some 308 lubed it well, and sized it incrementally right on down to 308! now days I would not dream of sacrificing a perfectly good 30 06 case for a lousy dime a dozen spent 308. I would rather rock my Garand than my 14. Know of any other Cases with similar rim or base dimensions as 45 long Colt? or? 45 70? I just noticed my spent Russian Steel case 7.62 54 R was almost good to go but steel. I got to dig through some garbage brass and see if I can take brass case 54 R another step closer to 45 LC? or 45 70? I was just messing around with this 45 long Colt case size for My First Time, as I just came into a 45 long colt Philippine Contract double action Colt.
I would like to make note of the load data here. DO NOT load them just like ACPs. 45ACP has a higher case pressure and there’s no guarantee that older things chambered in 45 colt can handle such pressure. Rugers have had testing performed to higher pressures/velocities. You need to know your arm of choice and load accordingly. I load them with 4gr of titegroup under a 160gr projectile. Using ruger vaqueros. Also have found that a Redding profile crimp die for 45 auto rim is the key. They load on a dillon pretty easily.
I'm looking into a way to keep using split .38 special cases by trimming them down to .38 long colt specs. This looks good but when I look into the lyman case trimmer I don't see any way to fit a drill to it like you have done.
Just a thought, if in time hand loading the 45 Colt brass case stretches from seating too many lead reloads saving the case by cutting down to 45 cowboy can add new life to mild hand loading if the primer pockets are still within micrometer specification
if i get my 3d printer working again, i wanna try making some single use moulds to make some funky long cast hollowpoints, think long enough to fill these out to normal .45colt OAL but with a gihundus cavity inside, practical? probably not cool and a fun money sink? of course
I wonder if Lee's Factory Crimp Die for .45 Auto Rim would work? It's not technically a roll crimp as far as I know, but it might do better than the built-in crimp on the seating die.
Can you cut down a 45 colt die, to make a shorter crimp die? Will that work? Would probably act more like a taper crimp, which would probably work out just fine. I can make you one with the lathe. Hawk
Interesting video. The loads don’t seem significantly different than .45 auto rim so why would you need to cut down .45 Colt cases? Is it due to the .45AR having a thicker rim?
How much powder was in the 44 henry/rimfire? I would think your BP loads and original 44 henry loads would be pretty close. I heard about a company years ago that made 45 cowboy special carriers for uberti henrys and the1866s. Always thought thatd be a pretty close setup
If a thicker rim (ala auto rim) is needed to lessen head space 45 Schofield brass should help and less trimming needed 🙂. Or just use Schofield brass as is😲I do, and get more consistent velocities with unholy smokless with Schofield brass than .45 Colt. ❤DJ
I dont see why theres a need for this brass. People could use 45 schofield brass, but i suppose its difficult to find these days along with everything else. I always found 45 schofield factory loaded ammo to be very anemic. As always, i enjoyed the video. Oh, you can use a standard pipe cutter to trim brass if youre wanting to take alot off. Its quicker. Just insert a steel rod inside the brass case you wish to cut. Use the case trimmer to shore it up.
IMHO, I don’t like Cowboy Specials! I tried some at a SASS Match … and missed consecutively! Switched back to 45 Colt and hit consecutively! Possibly, I’m use to “using” recoil? Don’t really know … but, I’ll stick to the Colt round.
Whats your opinion on using an over powder wad to try and keep small loads of smokeless in one spot (more or less) in the 45 colt? I'm new to reloading 45 colt, and just this week made up some 40gr 3f loads, 40gr pyro P loads, and some with titegroup i have on hand.
@@Everythingblackpowder right on, thanks. I really appreciate your no-bullshit videos and cutting through all the fuddlore and lies about black powder shooting.
Don't use the diffusers on heavily overcast days. I guess since there was never a real 45 long colt cartridge, the cowboys could be short colt making long colt a real thing now.
There was a prior cartridge called the .45 Colt Government, shorter than the std. 45 Colt. Likely where the term "Long Colt" came into being. You can read about in over on the Leverguns Forum in an article by Jim Taylor.
@@Everythingblackpowder Well, to be honest I've never blown one up or loaded one with airspace as an experiment, but in several years of dealing with BP every single time I've seen a discussion of the topic they always say don't leave airspace. So maybe it is an old wives tale. After I posted my first comment, I watched this guy's video where he says it is safe. If it is a myth, maybe it got started because someone somewhere loaded a muzzleloader, forgot they loaded it, then loaded it again, couldn't push the ball all the way down, figured the ball was just stuck a couple of inches short of the charge, fired it, and got a kaboom, and blamed it on the space they incorrectly believed existed between the charge and the "stuck" ball.
The only thing I have heard of is a 45 Schofield being a considered a short I would think it would be just fact of its short case and anything shorter than that would be considered in that class yes
@@andrewkelso3532 No... Though they may be shorter than 45 Colt, Each cartridge has it own correct designation like 45 Schofeild ... 45 M1877 45 colt Government 45 ACP and the recent Cowboy 45 Special. Its also incorrect to call "45 Colt" 45 long Colt.
Dude! Use a pipe cutter first and cut it a touch long and finish it in the trimmer... Sheesh... Do i have to think of everything?
Great vid! Thanks.
Thank You. Read an article 40 maybe 50 years ago about a guy, reloading for his Pro Shooter Wife that the first shot from her revolver was all over the place but subisquent shots were on spot. Conclusion was that when she drew from the holster, the powder was at the bullet end of the cartridge. The following rounds had a level out powder charge; what you just proved here. God Bless and stay safe.
That was why in old cowboy movies (20's/30's) they always pointed the muzzle up in the air before lowering to shoot. It settled the powder onto the primer for more bang and smoke.
with some powders (aa5 in particular) this can go very extreme in our long wheelgun cases, i did a .38 special load with aa5 that was pretty much +p+ (.35/44, 158gr at ~1200fps) but when you start using the load with the muzzle down first they were barely leaving the barrel, to the point they were clearly tumbling at 25 yards. when you first pointed the muzzle skyward it was definitely one spicy .38
so yeah, i think i'd stick my target loads for .45 and .44 in the .45 cowboy specials and .44 russians instead...
My nightstand gun is a S&W model 1917 from a 1927 South American contract. I load it with pure lead 230 grain bullets at 700 FPS in .45 AutoRim cases. Pretty close to what you have created here. Don't underestimate the deadlyness of them.
It will penetrate a WhiteTail deer from front right shoulder to left rear hip at 30 yards. It is a formidable home defense load..
The 45 Cowboy Special is very close in size to the 455 Webley Mk1 blackpowder cartridge too. just a slight trimming needed. 18grs of Swiss 4Fg under a 265 gr bullet should get about 750 fps from a 6" revolver!
Going to have to try this out with my old s&w. Sounds like a lot of fun!!!
I still don't know 100% what i can and cannot show as far as load data, I mean "recipes". I am kind of amazed what I have been able to get away with a little discretion, like showing how to load batteries as slugs, etc.
It seems like it’s different every time. I reckon it depends on the person who does the Manuel review
@@Everythingblackpowder I did have a video demonetized because you could see a flashlight mounted on one of the shotguns. True story.
@taofledermaus I believe it
@@Everythingblackpowder Yes, Manuel is a pretty chill dude. He always lets you slide
A tip from a machinist if you dont mind. Make a slip collet to go in your lathe and chuck it in a 3 jaw and buzz the off with a cutoff tool.
Regarding your smokeless loads, one possibility for the wimpiness may be the fact that you’ve essentially increased the amount of freebore. That bullet is now having to jump a lot further distance to engage rifling, hampering the ignition and burn rate. A few years ago I had all but mastered reloading 22 long rifle. I found out with my smokeless loads that they would fire just fine in my Henry lever gun and would cycle in my Ruger 22/45 autoloader but were very sporadic out of a heritage Roughrider and would squib just about every time.
I busted out laughing when you said you were going to trim your 45 Colt cartridges down to 45 ACP size using a Lyman case trimmer!!! As I'm sitting here using my Lyman case trimmer to trim my 38 SPL brass down to 38 Colt for my 1851 Navy conversion cylinder. I immediately thought "I'll check back in a couple weeks". I guess the laughs were on me. How did you mount a drill onto that trimmer? I've been trimming these damn things for two days straight!!!
I made my own cowboy special too. Made them from magtech and starline cases, the starline brass had to be reamed out on the inside to get my 200 grains big lube bullet to seat witout a bulge. The magtech brass is thinner and thickens way deeper then the starline brass. I also had my sizer die reamed out because most (all) of the sizer dies I had were too tight and caused a lot of brass to last only 4 reloads, even with blackpowder. Because the O.D. of the case was then larger I could get a roll crimp with a standard 45 ACP seaterdie . My load was 18 grains of the cheapest 3F (ish) I could find, slight compression with the bullet (about 3mm). Used the same charge in my Rossi 92 with cous cous filler. I must say that I only used magtech brass in my rifle, that chamber was on the outside of the specs and my vaqueros were a bit tighter.
After I reamed out my sizerdie I never lost brass due to splitting.
First time I have ever heard of you or watched your videos. I have to say, I am impressed. Loved the format and most importantly, the info and content. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Glad to hear it. Thank you
Except it wasn't developed by Starline. While they were they were the original manufacturer, it was developed by a cowboy action shooter who went by the alias Adirondak Jack. And it was developed especially for cowboy action. RCBS makes an 45ACP roll crimp seater die. RCBS #18942
Thank you
"I read it on the Internet, so it must be true" ...... Excellent words to live by. Has worked for me since the '90's :))
What?😮😮😮😮 Are you telling me the things on the internet are not true??
@@Thousand_yard_King Just the things you don't agree with ...... 😁
The guy that invented this cartridge, Adirondack Jack, recommended using the
Hornady 3 die set # 546554 for 45 ACP/ AR / Win because it uses a roll crimp.
Thanks for the great videos that you put out !!!
I've found that if you remove the sky screens on a cloudy day, the chrony will detect the bullet better. Granted, I have a 30 year old Chrony F1. YMMV. I can't tell what you are using and if that's applicable. Neat video though. Might give the special loads a try.
They will work in some revolvers chambered in 45ACP, if the cylinder doesn't come back to the recoil shield and if you load the Cowboy 45 Special like 45ACP (452 bullet, etc.) Shot a lot through Ruger Vaqueros. I also modified a Marlin 1894 45 Colt to feed and shoot them.
You've addressed my question... What did you have to do to modify the Marlin? I'd hate to do anything irreversible to mine.
Using Trail Boss powder solves the problem of light loads in large capacity cases like the .45 Colt. It is a very bulky low pressure powder designed specifically to fill up all the powder space in cases to maintain a stable powder position and give consistent pressures.
I use trail boss all the time and when I make a video using it people tell me they can’t get it. So I make a video on short cartridges with faster burning powder and people tell me to just use trail boss. Lol go figure…
@@Everythingblackpowder
Aint you got it figured out yet ?
NOTHING is ever good enough for some people !! LOL
As far as I am concerned this is another very informative Video That YOU (and not a naysayer)have made.
Thank's
They stopped making trail boss back in 2021ish, I think. Rumor mills talk about the powder plant upgrading their lines to restart production, but when?
I'll just stick to BP or even pyrodex if I have to.
In the 45 Colt chambers, the bullet will clear the Cowboy case before the bearing surface enters the throat of the chamber. That's roughly a .452" bullet in a .480" chamber before it hits the throat. So there is going to be some gas blow-by, and loss of velocity. I tried Starline 45CS brass with a .452" cast bullet and it is a snug fit to a no-go fit in a 45ACP cylinder, but the bullet is in the throat as it leaves the case, so not the blow-by situation. Enjoyed the vid, thanks for sharing!
You always seem to have helpful information with safety included with each video! I had a thought for your chronograph, would it be feasable to put an LED light hood over it (battery operated)? And im still looking to see someone in the bushes with a pot and hammer…again great shooting!!
Thank you
You had me at "Starline Brass" *shudders*... still watching of course.
I made some of these back in 1991 and wondered if anyone else ever had the idea. I used to actively participate in a lot of gun forums and remember when people started talking about doing it for cas shooting. I used a discontinued LEE die back then to load them, but a LEE 45 acp die will roll crimp. LEE ACP dies can adjust from taper to full roll albeit idk if it will reduce the bullet dia. because I haven't made any of these in many years and just don't recall. A Redding profile crimp die is basically a LEE bullet seating die (with different dimensions) with the stem and adjustment cap removed. I've often wondered why no one ever mentions this, but understand why LEE wouldn't...they've been in bed with Redding since at least the late 80's...
Kinda a cool idea I think karl from in range had some sort of device to shoot short cases like that in a lever guns some time back you might wanna find one
For the 1917, I guess if the .45 Cowboy brass has too much play, maybe the clips can help?
Optionally, winding some metal wire around to base, adding height to the rim for spacing. Admittedly very ghetto, I got this idea from some police evidence photo where someone had done this to try to fit 9mm Luger in a .38 Special revolver. I've also seen a really old IDF archive photo where someone had used a hammer and punch to ding up the head of 9mm Luger cartridges, creating these little jagged 'flanges' so that they would sit on the extractor of a .38 Special revolver, because apparently there was no .38 Special ammo around at that very moment. I would not expect good reliability doing either of these, but it's probably not catastrophically dangerous.
Write a book! You have some great stuff here. Id buy it.
I'm a simple man, I see cowboy load info I click.
Thanks for the video. Looked like a lot of fun.
I remember reading a thread on the SASS forum years ago from the original developer of the cowboy special, Adirondack Jack I think. He said he told Starline to take a 45 Colt and take the extra lenght out of the center of the cartridge. That way the mouth of the case is not too thick due to the internal taper. Thus a factory Cowboy Special is just a little bit better than making you own from cut down 45 Colts.
Fair enough
Nice stuff, thank you for sharing. I would love to see a deeper dive into loading .45 Colt. You know my focus on historical shooting, so I'm trying to recreate the M1873 cartridge as closely as I can (except for the Benet primers, of course). I had a custom mold made to produce a close match for the bullet, but no one can definitively tell me how much crimp I should have or how much I should be compressing the powder. I know the Fascists hate it when people talk about this kind of thing, so if you happened to think of a way around their ridiculous rules I'd love to see a deep dive into this. I'm using 35 grains of Swiss 3F, and this week the "plug" that holds the ejector assembly on my Colt 1860 Kirst conversion revolver worked its way halfway out of the tube from the old loading lever assembly, so I do think I'm going to have to cut my charges down a bit. LOL! I also used a Howell conversion cylinder to shoot the same cartridges from my Remington NMA, and the power was so great it drive the loading lever into the latch that holds it hard enough to break it off, which also might be considered nature's way of telling me to lighten the load.
CZcams I making it more difficult as we speak. I’m was thinking of putting the stuff I have to edit out on rumble.
Nice video. I have about 500 of the 45 Cowboy Special brass that I got but never got around to loading yet. Mainly because I don’t shoot 45acp and didn’t have the dies handy. One of these days maybe I’ll load some up. Thanks for another cool video.
Thanks Joe
You have the coolest name. And it fits you so well.
I was making up some rounds for a friend's m1867 Remington RB in 50 Remington navy. Lucked out and found a bulled mold that would work and some reproduction brass. But could not find any dies for it so ended up making a crimping die from scratch and the reloaded cases seem to chamber just fine so we are just not going to bother with a sizing die. I had some accurate 5744 on hand so worked up a safe load for him to plink with.
It might be worth looking into making a crimp die for your shortened rounds. The one I made was just mystery steel and did a crude heat treat, seems to be holding up ok.
such a cool fun lil round. i have a brass framed remmington with cartridge conversion. i dont want to stretch the frame out. so i load blanks for 45lc for the fourth of july. but i fire 45 cowboy special out of it, 45 acp dies taper crimp, with 230 grain powder coated round nose and 20grs of powder. ive done 17grs and it could prolly fit 22 grs if loaded to the brim and compressed. but 20 just feels right with a lil bit of compression.
Velocity is right in the neighborhood of plinker 45 ACP. I have the same chrony and it just likes having the sunshields on, even on cloudy days, to give it a monochromatic background to contrast the bullet shadow.
Thanks for the awesome content, keep it up!
You can mount that case trimmer to a solid chunk of wood, then just clamp it in your bench vice. Works for mine!
I cut the case down to almost the correct length with a tubing cutter, then finish with the case trimmer and deburring tool. I use the same method to make 7.62x25 Tok brass from .223 brass.
Perhaps you could make a .45 Cowboy roll crimp die by shortening a .45 Colt crimp die. If it works for the brass it should work for the die.
You’ve got the best outro on all of CZcams!!!
Hi Jake, you're always great, will you still make videos on homemade anciet muzzleloader propellent?
Yes in fact we are going to test some powder this weekend made from cork charcoal
@@Everythingblackpowder How would BBQ charchoal fare?
@@Everythingblackpowder, fantastic!
Charcoal made from a cottonwood tree works great. The DEXTRIN binds it really well
@@firestorm8471i think that the holy grail of charcoal Is a mixture of alder buckthorn charcoal with a little bit of White Willow charcoal
I had to convert some 44 magnum brass into 44 Russian brass for an antique revolver. I had to pre trim the brass with a tubing cutter because my lyman case trimmer cutter dulled out after making about 8 cases with a full trim. And when loaded you want to talk thick brass? The loaded rounds were too big to fit in the chamber. I had to run the loaded ammo back through the resizing die with out the decapping pin, then they chambered just fine.
It sounds like you're just recreating a 45 Scofield
Formula doesn't seem to trigger YTs feelings as a bad word😅
I've made .45 CS brass out of .45 Colt with the same trimmer however I haven't been to the range to test yet. I'll be shooting them out of a .45 Colt adapter in my SBS shotgun. I use .45 Schofield dies and can't remember what type of crimp they have. I'm guessing it's a roll crimp!
years ago I needed to make some 45/60 cartridges out of 45/70's I simply took a small tubing cutter, marked em for length and voila in about 30 minutes I converted 20 cartridges to 45/60 . Of course I wasnt going to do comp shooting so length to the .001" didnt matter. LOL
Reminds me of .45 Auto Rim. It's tantalizingly close....
I ise the cowboy special brass loaded to around 800 fps according to the reloading book for the triple shot with live ammo. I use 45 acp dies and load data. They work good gonna try some black powder loads eventually
Cutting down to that size would be a good way to use those short Hornady FTX cases that keep somehow slipping into my supply of brass. I've been tossing them...
Great idea! Too bad I threw all of mine away
@@Everythingblackpowder I have too..to this point. I've never bought any of them..they've been in some viewers have sent.
Done similar in my 44special. Was fun but not practical for it. But I can see a reason for 45 colt. 👍
I own a pro Chrono as well, try removing the shade pieces on the wires. Mine works well without the shades on a cloudy day.
my POS Chineta chrono needs a SHADE BOX to work.
Redding Profile Crimp die trimmed back so it will crimp the the mouth of the Cowboy Special case. Hell, they might make you one. As for all the empty space in any handgun case, I take insulating foam that wraps a pipe and sharpen the mouth of a case to saw out little plugs and put them in place before the slug goes in, works good for me, use them over powder and under shot for snake loads, they do lead the barrel with shot.
Have you tried the Lee factory crimp die. I use them on my 44 special and a nice heavy crimp increases accuracy
This is a great idea with the disappearance of Trailboss! 👍😃
Thank you. I got an email from Hodgdon a few months ago saying that trail boss is NOT discontinued and should be hitting shelves in late October. I’m keeping my fingers crossed
I hope so. I'm gonna stock up this time!
@@TUCOtheratt good idea. I was hoarding reloading components long before it was popular.
I bought a thousand of them a year ago they work great .
My only concern with using them in the 1917 would be headspace issues. It might fire fine or it might have light primer strikes if they are a little floppy due to the thinner rim. Dont know if they would slam back into the frame either and cause isues. Very interested to see the results. I doubt there would be any serious issues with yhe pressures your working with.
Great show I've done the same thing .love it .thank you.
Thank you
I use 45 Schofield brass in by 45 when I want to make a more efficient burning load in my single action Colt,they used to make 45 rimmed that was used in double action old Colts so you didn't have to use moon clips,the rim may have to be thinned a bit depending on each individual gun its used in,I use them in my 455 Webly.
I just use 45 Schofield and they work outstanding! -Gunny T sends
a small pipe cutter might work to cut down the brass but i have never tried it
Looks like you had some fun there ! Do you ever load round ball with your black powder loads ?
Yes
I was given some 45 cowboy brass. I cant tell if i love them or hate them. For my original SAAs i run light loads most of the time. So using these just for the originals seems like a good idea. But it seem they are leading the barrel very quickly compared to normal 45 colt. I am thinking its because the bullet is traveling further until it hits the rifling. so it should be traveling much faster by the time it hits the rifling compared to regular 45 colt. I am still testing and haven't given up on them yet.
That’s interesting. I didn’t have any leading with this batch
@WillardMcBain interesting. I am still testing. it could be something I am doing wrong.
I like the auto rim brass in my webley
As a Younger and Thinner shooter with 30 06 surplus all over the place, more than 308 in the early 90's? I wanted to load a few 308's but had NO Brass as I had No 308 in these days. Soooo? thinking swiftly, I cut down some 308 lubed it well, and sized it incrementally right on down to 308!
now days I would not dream of sacrificing a perfectly good 30 06 case for a lousy dime a dozen spent 308. I would rather rock my Garand than my 14.
Know of any other Cases with similar rim or base dimensions as 45 long Colt? or? 45 70?
I just noticed my spent Russian Steel case 7.62 54 R was almost good to go but steel. I got to dig through some garbage brass and see if I can take brass case 54 R another step closer to 45 LC? or 45 70? I was just messing around with this 45 long Colt case size for My First Time, as I just came into a 45 long colt Philippine Contract double action Colt.
I would like to make note of the load data here.
DO NOT load them just like ACPs. 45ACP has a higher case pressure and there’s no guarantee that older things chambered in 45 colt can handle such pressure. Rugers have had testing performed to higher pressures/velocities. You need to know your arm of choice and load accordingly.
I load them with 4gr of titegroup under a 160gr projectile. Using ruger vaqueros.
Also have found that a Redding profile crimp die for 45 auto rim is the key. They load on a dillon pretty easily.
Fair enough
I'm looking into a way to keep using split .38 special cases by trimming them down to .38 long colt specs. This looks good but when I look into the lyman case trimmer I don't see any way to fit a drill to it like you have done.
Just a thought, if in time hand loading the 45 Colt brass case stretches from seating too many lead reloads saving the case by cutting down to 45 cowboy can add new life to mild hand loading if the primer pockets are still within micrometer specification
Or just make a brass dowel to see how easily it snugs into the primer well
When I first started reloading 45acp I bought a Hornady die set,#044554, it has a roll crimp. I could never figure why.
if i get my 3d printer working again, i wanna try making some single use moulds to make some funky long cast hollowpoints, think long enough to fill these out to normal .45colt OAL but with a gihundus cavity inside,
practical? probably not
cool and a fun money sink? of course
Very interesting, always enjoy your videos
Thank you
I wonder if Lee's Factory Crimp Die for .45 Auto Rim would work? It's not technically a roll crimp as far as I know, but it might do better than the built-in crimp on the seating die.
I wonder if installing an LED panel (like a studio light) near the chronograph could fix the issue when it's cloudy?
Very good presentation... Fine shooting as well... LUCK..lol, you are on or you are not. But.. at 180 yds.. You will be eating well..
Thank you. It’s the firearm, it shoots so damn high it hit point of aim at 180 yards.
Nice job. You make some very interesting videos, fun to watch and follow along.
Cheers !!
Thank you
with a 200 grain bullet you can replicate the .44 Henry Flat that was used in the 1860 Henry/It was rim fire but the ballistics are similar.
I am lazy Just went to Starline and bought them
Nice vidya again. Got a website of your own, or a place where I can start diving into the Black?
Just CZcams
@@Everythingblackpowder I mean the bronze type of black. =)
Can you cut down a 45 colt die, to make a shorter crimp die?
Will that work? Would probably act more like a taper crimp, which would probably work out just fine. I can make you one with the lathe.
Hawk
Interesting video. The loads don’t seem significantly different than .45 auto rim so why would you need to cut down .45 Colt cases? Is it due to the .45AR having a thicker rim?
Yes the 45AR won’t fit in anything I own except the 1917
I have a set of Lee .45 Auto Rim dies that will roll crimp on the seating die.
How much powder was in the 44 henry/rimfire? I would think your BP loads and original 44 henry loads would be pretty close. I heard about a company years ago that made 45 cowboy special carriers for uberti henrys and the1866s. Always thought thatd be a pretty close setup
I believe they were 25gr
If a thicker rim (ala auto rim) is needed to lessen head space 45 Schofield brass should help and less trimming needed 🙂. Or just use Schofield brass as is😲I do, and get more consistent velocities with unholy smokless with Schofield brass than .45 Colt. ❤DJ
Interesting
Wonder if these would work in a .410, guessing they would not like your at the top of the pressure scale😂
I dont see why theres a need for this brass. People could use 45 schofield brass, but i suppose its difficult to find these days along with everything else. I always found 45 schofield factory loaded ammo to be very anemic. As always, i enjoyed the video. Oh, you can use a standard pipe cutter to trim brass if youre wanting to take alot off. Its quicker. Just insert a steel rod inside the brass case you wish to cut. Use the case trimmer to shore it up.
Schofield cases don’t fit the .45 Colt plate on my press.
🇺🇸💪👍💣 your videos are very helpful
Thank you
Just use the .45 ACP FCD from Lee. ;)
Have you tried your chronograph without the shades?
Yeah it struggles just the same
IMHO, I don’t like Cowboy Specials! I tried some at a SASS Match … and missed consecutively! Switched back to 45 Colt and hit consecutively!
Possibly, I’m use to “using” recoil? Don’t really know … but, I’ll stick to the Colt round.
Fair enough but these seemed plenty accurate for me.
Thanks for sharing
Whats your opinion on using an over powder wad to try and keep small loads of smokeless in one spot (more or less) in the 45 colt? I'm new to reloading 45 colt, and just this week made up some 40gr 3f loads, 40gr pyro P loads, and some with titegroup i have on hand.
I’ve never tried it with smokeless but I’ve heard of folks that have.
@@Everythingblackpowder right on, thanks. I really appreciate your no-bullshit videos and cutting through all the fuddlore and lies about black powder shooting.
@@chairzombie8378 thank you
Dam,cool,1,in,black,power
Don't use the diffusers on heavily overcast days.
I guess since there was never a real 45 long colt cartridge, the cowboys could be short colt making long colt a real thing now.
There was a prior cartridge called the .45 Colt Government, shorter than the std. 45 Colt. Likely where the term "Long Colt" came into being. You can read about in over on the Leverguns Forum in an article by Jim Taylor.
Greetings. Why yt start 'cenzoring' movies with putting stuff together and at the end something was assembled??
Ask CZcams
Will those cycle in a lever action?
I don’t think so
i could be wrong but i feel like your microphone is a little more "muffled" then normal. did you change anything?
only when you were talking next to your reloading bench tho
Nope
Will it also work in a lever action rifle ?
I don’t know. I didn’t try it
Pretty sure it's more than just 'advised' to avoid airspace in a black powder cartridge case.
I’ve loaded BP rounds with air space and it didn’t do anything scary.
@@Everythingblackpowder Well, to be honest I've never blown one up or loaded one with airspace as an experiment, but in several years of dealing with BP every single time I've seen a discussion of the topic they always say don't leave airspace. So maybe it is an old wives tale.
After I posted my first comment, I watched this guy's video where he says it is safe. If it is a myth, maybe it got started because someone somewhere loaded a muzzleloader, forgot they loaded it, then loaded it again, couldn't push the ball all the way down, figured the ball was just stuck a couple of inches short of the charge, fired it, and got a kaboom, and blamed it on the space they incorrectly believed existed between the charge and the "stuck" ball.
How about in a .455 Webley ?
I think these are very close to 455 Webley
Would the Specials be the equivalent of .44 Henry length, for the lifter ln a Henry rifle? Just curious...
They are very close in OAL
try and see if it would work in a Mk VI Webley revolver
I wish I owned a MKVI Webley
doesn't everyone @@Everythingblackpowder
@@fwi1298 I would hope so
Have you tried a Lee factory crimp die?
Not yet
Are you on Rumble?
Yes but not active
My .45 LC derringer just loves Cowboy special brass loaded with a stiff charge of Bullseye and a hard cast .451 round ball.
What do you think the 45 Schofield round is in that class of being a 45 short
@andrewkelso3533...
There has never been a 45 short Colt!
The only thing I have heard of is a 45 Schofield being a considered a short I would think it would be just fact of its short case and anything shorter than that would be considered in that class yes
@@andrewkelso3532
No... Though they may be shorter than 45 Colt, Each cartridge has it own correct designation like
45 Schofeild ...
45 M1877
45 colt Government
45 ACP
and the recent Cowboy 45 Special.
Its also incorrect to call "45 Colt" 45 long Colt.
Just be glad you don't need to make swiss vetterli brass that way..... that brass is THICK!