Magic Systems - Making a TTRPG From Scratch [Episode 36]
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- We're doing resource management systems today! I mean inventory systems... Wait... Magic systems! Well, technically it's all the same in my game and with good reasons. Firstly, I like my current inventory system and I think that extending the mechanic to the magic system gives a lot more freedom to how you cast spells. Stay tuned.
And don't forget to check out my Vertical Slice Edition of my game Explorers RPG on itch.io: wyverns-lair.itch.io/explorer.... And leave a follow if you want to keep tabs on my work. - Hry
![How You Should Implement Skills - Making a TTRPG from Scratch [Episode 19]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8cWGfa1R7LU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Combat in Non-Combat RPGs - Making a TTRPG from Scratch [Episode 20]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0o5vWmoS3KU/mqdefault.jpg)
you deserve a million subs, this is awesome
Thanks! I'm working on it😆
I just now discovered this video (and by extension, this channel).
It's very intriguing, and I am planning on going back and starting to watch the 'Making a TTPRG' playlist from the beginning. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! You're in for a... Bumpy ride🤣
Same
just started watching, and I have to say this is a pretty awesome idea for magic. I think for different 'aspects' you could class them by school similar to dnd's magic schools (Evocation, Necromancy, Illusion etc). The Iron Priest also sounds like an awesome class with an equally awesome name which reminds me of the Witchers and their silver swords used for killing monsters.
Thanks! I was thinking about the difference schools myself, but not just copy them over. My current idea is to use them as a basis and maybe add more or split them if they become too powerful.
I was aiming for the Witcher vibes, so that's cool! Still haven't come up with any cool abilities yet though😅
@@simplywyvern in my own magic system, different magic traditions have access to learning specific aspects...mostly because traditions have different paradigms of philosophy and also keep their knowledge secret or guarded for their own members. This makes it fun and easy for players to come up with new and interesting magical traditions.
Here’s an idea for the iron priest: if components can be spent to cast spells, iron could be a kind of multitool/wildcard battery component, capable of casting a variety of spells at high power, but needing to recharge after. That way, the “death blow” delivered by the Iron Priest could be a blast of several different spells that had been slowly powering up in their iron components.
Additionally; this could allow anybody to use iron, but also give the Iron Priest the greatest affinity with it
That's a great idea! I was thinking about something similar, or at least the same feeling. Still don't know how yet😅 but this could maybe be what I'm looking for.
But how would recharge work? Would you roll every hour/day and get an iron component if you succeed?
@@simplywyvern in mythology, Fey creatures and Ill Will are repelled specifically by Cold Iron. Maybe the iron heats up when channeling magic and requires time to cool off?
The Iron could take a day or two to fully cool down; but if used again while still hot, there’s a chance it could melt from stress.
Plus, now the priest can cast more spells in cold environments and fewer in hot ones, similar to how an ingredient caster can forage more in lusher environments.
Oh damn! That's amazing! That's like... I don't know... Solves everything. It just makes sense. Genius!
It both gives the player the incentive to keep as many iron cold as possible, but also to risk the hot ones when you're in need. Brilliant!
@@simplywyvern Thanks! That means a lot, I don’t know much about the setting and aren’t that good at this so I was worried coming up with an idea 😭
I’m glad I did well!
You're good at this!
So I got a few ideas for spell casting, the classes, and for types of magic.
Spell casting
These ideas are nebulous so add them in however you will and to whatever part.
Exploding dice (if you roll the max value you roll again), maybe artifacts let you roll a extra dice and cause it to explode as well or maybe cretin class features cause your dice to explode
Splitting dice: some class features or items might let you split your magic dice which means you roll more dice but they are less powerful, instead of 1d10 you roll 2d4
Class ideas
From what I know iron was not the only metal to be used against supernatural beings and some metals were better than others. Steel is the worst since its iron and carbon which dilutes the steels power. Iron is the next best since it is pure. Silver is the best and most powerful against spirits.
Types of magic
I think there are two ways you could go about doing this either (A) a set list or (B) not set list
With a set list you should keep it to 8 or less and keep them broad (eg light, dark, fire, illusions, etc) so that they can be applied to many situations
With a non set list you should have new aspects be made as you go and they should be fairly specific (flying, illumination, swords, etc)
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not quite sure if I want exploding dice. Mostly because I don't know when I should use them. Wait.... Maybe I can! So at first I was thinking about exploding dice against a cost. If you have a d10, you can only cast spells of cost 10 or less, so even if you exploded a d10, you already had 10+ result and it wouldn't be useful. But... If you have a more unreliable class using some "unstable chaotic magic" where you can choose whatever spell you want, regardless of cost, you can still cast a 10 cost spell even with a d4. Sure, going beyond a d4 and failing the roll with a 9 or less will have dramatic consequences!
I haven't figured out any spells yet, and if you have one spell with multiple costs or separate spells. If I choose one spell with multiple costs (say healing spell with cost 4 +2 per person), then exploding dice could be useful. Thanks!
I also like the idea of splitting dice. I've never thought about it, but it makes a lot of sense. If you're a good spellcaster, you can focus your spell if you really want to cast a 5 cost spell, but you don't want to risk rolling a d10, but 2d4 instead. Thanks again!
I mostly thought of using iron because "iron priests" is a cool name, but you have a point about diversified metals. Silver might help against some things and iron against others. It gives the iron priest not only the choice of how much metal to carry, but which!
I am leaning towards the set list of aspects, mostly because it'll be easier to make spells specific. You need "fire" and "darkness" to cast spell X. Now, that doesn't stop you from carrying "ashes from a dead king" which would both have fire and darkness. I fear that using an unset list either gives spell casters too much power, or the GM and players will butt heads when figuring out how powerful a spell actually is, because the GM can argue you'll need a feather to cast "feather falling", but you think a bird's beak is okay.
Thanks for the feedback! This is great!
So to answer your first question; I loved the camera movements. They were just enough, smooth and not jerky, and it was really cool particularly when you swoop round and in. So yeah, keep that up for me.
Secondly I really like this mechanic and I'm looking forward to seeing how you develop it.
Nice one!
Thanks!! I always appreciate your feedback 🥰
Wow. That is really creative. Keep going. I think consistancy is a good thing. There is a specific thing that comes to my mind. If magic fighters get spells than martial fighters should get spell-like abilities. Without such anilities, martial foghters can get underpowered especially at higher levels. There is even a trope for this, Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards. I noticed this problem in DND 5E. I haven't played the game enough to get a feel of the relative strength of classes. However I do think the martial classes got shafted due to the lack of spells alone. World of Warcraft, Pokemon and even DND 4E are examples of games that treat martial classes more fairly. They give spell-like abilities. This video takes the idea of of consistent mechanics to the next level. I didn't think that magic reasources can be like inventory reasources. Neat.
The reasource for magic is new. I am so used to the mana system that World of Warcraft has. Then when I got into DND, I learned about the Vancian system. That has spell slots instead of mana as a magical reasource. Magic the Gathering has its own unique management system with the deck and the lands as reasources. This video has items as magic reasources. That is unique, and it makes magic more grounded. The councept works well. In real life, magicians used all sorts of paraphenalia. There are even consumables like herbs, candles, oils and incense. Even churches use candles and incense. Churches can also use holy water as a consumable. Perhaps consumables can be used in place of mana or Vancian reasourse. More durable items can give permanent bonuses. This can be things like wands, staffs, cauldrons, brooms and crystal balls. A priest can use a holy item like a cross or roasary. I do like the idea of gathering magic consumable items in the environment. I have a lot of fun with this in Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild. Item hoarding is not an issue for me. I am confident in my item use, because I know I can get more later. I use nice items on weaker kinds of enemies. I am not even bothered by weapon breaking. There is a tradeoff which makes thinkgs fair. In order to get the items, one needs to spend time hunting for these items.
The three classes are so unique. That is cool. Magic can be organized in different ways. There are two main ways. One is to have different magic classes like in DND, World of Warcraft and other RPGs. Another is to have magic elements like Pokemon and Avatar the Last Airbender. There are other ways. Magic the Gathering is unique with its magic colors. Harry Potter has Hogwarts houses. Owl House has its magic covens. DND wizards have a bunch of subclasses. There is evocation, abjuration, transmutation etc. Perhaps one can base an entire magic system around that.
I came up with my own categories. There is nature, arcane, occult and holy. I have all my classes be magicians. Some even replace the martial classes. Nature deals with magic based on plants, animals and the earth. The main class is shaman. The role is a scout. Shamans are the replacement for rogue. Arcane deals with magical study and dealing with the energies of the universe. The main class is mage. The role is a cannon. Cannons are good at dealing direct damage from afar. Scouts are good at dealing damage upfront. There is magic that enhances close range strikes instead of damaging directly. Occult deals with mysteries, secret societies and spooky magic. The main class is warlock. The role is tank. Warlocks are a replacement for a warrior. Holy deals with worshiping deities and getting divine power. The main class is priest. The role is healer. I did come up with a lot more classes that are combos of the four. One class is the witch. This is a witch is both holy and nature magic. It focuses on the holy part. The druid class is like a witch except with more focus on nature. The witch is one of the most famous kinds of magicians in media, but it doesn't get a class. That sucks. So I made a witch class. I am going for a magician that is really into their Pagan religion with healing magic and a strong moral code. I am also going for one with some nature affinity as well. Witches can have their herb gardens and familiar animals. It is cool that the video has witch as a class. Having lots of consumable paraphernalia makes sense. Having natural stuff like herbs and mushrooms fit especially well. I do like having an element system. So I added that in as well. A character can be distinguished by both a class and an element. Elements have paper rock scissors mechanics. They are also easy to switch around in order to adapt to different opponents.
Thanks! I chose to have limited resources because you could limit magic users vs martial users. And it's a physical limit, which can easily be redesigned for martial classes.
And yes, the linear warrior- quadratic wizard was a thing back in the old DnDs, that's literally why warriors only leveled to level 10 and retired, while wizards leveled to level 20.
I like your classes. They seem fun and well thought-out 😁
I see magic systems like playing music; some people only play other's songs and some are composers. although more difficult, making your own spells from various magic aspects is lots of fun. in my own magic system, I use different Magical Energies which have 3 -4 unique aspects. The Magical Formulae is.... Magical energy + aspect + Form (shape) = magical effect. Ex: Radiant Energy + Warding aspect + Shield Form = "Shield of Radiant Warding".
A Magical Energy's aspects can also be combined with another magical energy's aspects for all sorts of effects. Such as Fire Energy's volatile & burning aspects + Air Energy's Movement (or carrying) aspect + Sphere Form = fireball.
Magical energy also determines how powerful the spells can be. I use a ranking system combined with power points but component slots could be used as well. Like if you have 2 ranks in Shadow Magic, then you can only use up to 2 component slots to power your spells using Shadow magic aspects.
as far as components... i classify them as Magical Assets (along with incantations, gesturing, holy symbols etc.), and to cast a spell there needs to be at least 3 Assets present, otherwise the casting difficulty will be harder. But you have me thinking... maybe other Assets could also use component slots, like a powerful incantation your renegade magus found in some deep, dark forgotten ruins, could be used to power the artifact level component slots (1d12). And gestures or somatic components, if you have learned and mastered the basic hand gestures and body postures for an aspect, then maybe these gestures could always occupy the lowest levels of component slots. of course then burning component slots wouldn't always be about replenishing ingredients, which seems to be a big "component" of your system. That could be a special perk (or feat) magic types can gain so their last component slot is always full, this way magic types could eventually always be able to cast at least 1d4 spells for known aspects.
It's cool to see someone creating their own flexible magic system and nice to share ideas. I really like your idea of slots for inventory.
Wow! That's some nice magic you got there 😁. It really seems thought out! It somewhat reminds me of a rpg/video game/I don't remember what it was, that I heard about whi h used words to create the same effect. "Radiant" + "Warding" + "Shield" = "Shield of Radiant Warding". But that's more for a free form magic casting.
I like what you say about composers and music. It makes me think that I would want a speciality or archetype or feat that would give you the option to construct your own spells😎
I've always liked the idea of difficult spells needing more resources and be harder to cast. Like having to travel to a cross between two ley lines and sacrifice a goat under the full moon. That way the players can have a long adventure to cast one ritual. It also makes sense that cults and cultists exist, if that's what's required to cast these rituals, and players could also start their own cult.
I also think your rules have a lot of cool ideas. Do you have them written down somewhere so I could have a look?
@@simplywyvern I do have a file for my magic system...but gotta say it's a bit rough; needs some work. I could put it up on google drive. Also, watching your videos made me start to re-evaluate my own game system. I think streamlining everything would help.
Well. I also have a lot of badly written stuff just lying around, so I've probably made worse than what you have🤣 If you wish to put it up on Google drive, I'd be happy to read it. Don't know if you prefer to post the link here or contact me on discord
@@simplywyvern discord would be cool! By the way, your Ork game really looks cool!
Thanks! Sorry for the late response, the CZcams app is terrible with notifying about replies...
My discord is WhatIsThatOnMyLeg#3478
The camera is quite ... Trippy... But i like it ngl
Thanks! I want to experiment some more, but it's a good start.
I have a question, may I use this in my game?
Even if I said no, game mechanics cannot be copyrighted or patented in any way, so you are free to use it as long as you don't specifically copy paste my words.
But, yes! Of course you can use it. And feel free to give me feedback if you find some flaws/improvements 😁
@simplywyvern of course! Just wouldn't feel right if I didn't ask first you know?
@simplywyvern actually to be honest, seeing you starting with explorers inspired me to make my game
Yeah. I understand what you mean. And I'm humbled that someone wants to use my system. Thank you😁
And I'm glad you've decided to start making an RPG. It's a fun hobby 😊
@simplywyvern you are welcome!
when is the face revealllllll?
I gave you a (robot)arm reveal! Isn't that enough? Maybe I'll make an OnlyFans for it🤣
I don't like that rolling low with the components snowballs
Good to know! Thanks for the feedback. What do you mean about snowballs?
@@simplywyvern snowballing. Think of a snow ball rolling down a hill gathering snow. It's a metaphor for positive or negative momentum. If you roll bad or good on the die, you can either cast 5 super power spells in a row, or lose all you components with even weak spells. I would personally recommend adding dice rather than increasing dice size. It make s casting still have some risk, but the mean and lower spells of whatever component number your have more stable, and the higher level less stable.
Ahh! That makes sense. I haven't playtested this yet, so I can't say how true this is. Maybe if you have played something similar, you could correct me:
Yes, it will snowball. And I think I want that. It's sometimes about the helpless feeling you get when you're losing power, and the strategic thinking about limited resources. I also intend to not have spells have linear levels. So a level 4 is not twice as effective as a level 2, but maybe 10 times(?).
Another behavior I'm hoping to accomplish is that players are aware of when they have access to powerful spells. I find that with DnD or other games where casting at different levels doesn't affect other spells, tend to make it so you hold back on casting high level spells, because "there might be a bigger enemy behind the corner". With this system, you have to think about what spell you want to cast. If you cast a low level spell and fail, it also means you lose access to high level spells. So you want to cast the high level spells as quick as possible and hopefully hit a powerful streak.
I haven't playtested anything of this yet, so these are just wishful thinking on my part. Please enlighten me if you know of any systems that accomplishes this, or if there's some flaw in my mechanic I'm not seeing.
@@simplywyvern that will make it fundamentally impossible to balance. Your going to keep balance between casting 5 level 5 spells without a hitch, and 5 level 1 spells. Each of which has equal chance kn your system. Casters are 3.5 dnd caster of both 20th and 1st level at once, vs whatever martial system you have.
Maybe. I'll have to playtest things. Now, one thing to not, and that's that there's no martial class. In fact, there's no combat (or if you're in combat, you've done a series of stupid decisions).
One problem you've pointed out is "what happens when you level up?". Because if players start with only level 1 spells there's little point in having 5 slots for components, because they only need one or two. Since they get more spells and more options as they level up, but the same amount of slots, they just get less freedom to use stuff. Hmm... Maybe I should reevaluate the whole thing🤔
I think you're waving your hands around a little too much