Hawaiian Is Betting BIG on Boeing. Will It Pay Off?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 2. 07. 2024
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Chapters:
Intro - 0:00
Hawaiian's Fleet Strategy - 2:19
A Natural Upgrade - 3:19
Pivoting to Boeing - 5:14
Reason 1 - 6:01
Reason 2 - 9:00
Hawaiian's 787 Cabin - 10:42
Closing Thoughts - 12:21
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Hawaii is beautiful. It's sunny beaches and blue waters have made it an attractive vacation destination. But many will say it's the Hawaiian culture that makes visiting so special. Itâs fitting then, that Hawaiian Airlines mirrors this charm. The carrier is known for its signature hospitality, and it's earned them immense respect.
Now, when youâve built this kind of winning recipe, thereâs no harm in just sticking with it. But Hawaiian isnât resting on its laurels - itâs undergoing a major transformation. For years, the airlineâs built around Airbus. But now theyâre changing course. For the first time in decades, theyâre introducing a new Boeing to their fleet - the 787. Now, ditching Airbus and buying Boeing comes with plenty of risk. So, why did they do it? Why did Hawaiian buy the 787 Dreamliner? Let me explain...
#boeing #787 #aviation - Hry
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Iâm most interested in learning French as well as Iâm working on it since I want to visit a lot of places many that speak French like đšđŠ
I speak 7 languages.
Some of us humans are gifted, as I am.
I am from a musical family,
hearing and imitating what I hear.
Do not let them fool you
hey man! hope your doing well, can you make your next video on the potential airlines for the Boeing 777X? Like air New Zealand, KLM, Thai Airways, etc. Iâd love to here about the potential future of the plane
@@tomicaguyusa4633 GREAT IDEA! đĄ
They flew 767s for many years all the way up to 2019, so I'm not sure that makes them much of a loyalist to Airbus.
It's copium from Coby nowadays. He's determined to destroy Embraer by hoping Boeing buys them to fix Boeing...
"In February 2018, Hawaiian Airlines cancelled its order for six Airbus A330-800s to replace them with Boeing 787-9s priced less than $100-115m, close to their production cost of $80-90m, while their normal sales price is around $125m."
[Wikipedia]
So Boeing gave a very low price for 787-9s.
Thanks, didn't expect to find the price on Wikipedia.
But indeed, that explains quite something.
But given inflation 2021-2023, does that affect the production cost?
Alaska airlines also recently acquired Hawaiian Airlines. Theyâre all Boeing and Hawaiian still flies the 717. The 321neo LR they have have been plagued by engine issues.
@@TrentonThomas627they havenât yet but seems to be looking good. đđŒ
Boeing gave them more of a deal even before Alaska was in the picture. Simple. Having flown on both, as a passenger I prefer the A330neo with the 2-4-2 layout.
Me and my wife will ALWAYS prefer a a330 over any 787 because of it's 2-4-2 configuration. This means so much more than lower cabin altitude.
The comparison was 9-abreast A330 vs. 9-abreast 787. 787 wins hands-down in this regard due to the extra width.
@@airops423 I don't think that was the case, he's talking about Hawaiian (which has 2-4-2), but in those specific cases, sure I'd take the 787. And keep in mind, 3-3-3 in the a330 is rare, only seen in very few airlines.
@@apa182 â 7:29 "we looked at the A330-900 as an 8-abreast airplane and as a 9-abreast airplane. There are people who are operating the A330 with 9-abreast, and so we looked at that and in order to get that 9-abreast it wasn't consistent with the customer experience we provide to our guests today." So they really wanted nine-abreast, compared both the A330 and the 787 in nine-abreast configurations, and determined passenger comfort was not sufficient in the A330 in such a configuration. And then on top of that, as an added bonus, sure you get the lower cabin altitude, larger windows, etc.
The seating configuration has NOTHING to do with the cabin altitude. But the 787 has a much lower cabin altitude no matter what.
I don't think you understood what I meantâ@@TerminalBAviation
Customers prefer the 8-abreast A330 over the 9-abreast 787, because you have to ask only one person to get up to go to the restroom instead of two.
Yes,
If I'm not mistaken, Hawaiian is mainly a leisure airline. If so, most people will be traveling as a family or group, so it is not as big a deal to ask family or friends to move as strangers.
it's a shame because dreamliners were initially fitted as 2-4-2 but then an extra row was squeezed in similar to the 777 switch from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3
@@Gusearthand the same thing happened to the A330 NEO which a few airlines operate 9 abreast
And it's also NOT a modern Boeing jet. Meaning you're safer flying on it.
Ngl, I like how Hawaiian is extending their thoughts for commercial purposes, meaning they donât give up easily
The 787 has a 3-3-3 seating configuration in economy compared to 2-4-2 on the A330. The 787 economy is quite uncomfortable and more crammed, I would rather fly on an A330 whenever possible.
I mean itâs a wider plane that can fit 3-3-3 where the a330 would be too uncomfortable. If it made sense a 2-2-2 would be perfect, but the economics would be bad.
The trick is to not ride in economy. đ I have been up front on the lay-flats many times on the 787 and itâs been amazing. My only small complaint is the foot well when laying flat could be just a little wider. đ
I have flown with United on the 787. Once you experience the cabin environment and smoothness of the flight, you can't wait for the next one!
The business class experience is exceptional. There is also premier seating or economy plus with even better seats right behind business class. Airbus just cannot match the experience. Itâs not even close since economy plus and business class experience is better in the Boeing.
Until you try an A380 or an A350. The 787 is certainly Boeingâs best product, but itâs way behind the best Airbuses from a passengerâs perspective. (Note: Iâve flown on all those models)
Frankly, the 787 is an engineering marvel regardless of Boeing's tainted reputation. There has never been a lethal accident of the 787 and its exceptional aerodynamics & impressive range really makes the 787 backbone of several major airlines.
This sh*t was grounded before lol. Engineering sh*t đ€Ą
Iâll say this knowing some people âcloseâ to Hawaiian. Hawaiian originally went with Boeing over Airbus in order to have increased operating efficiency and because the Airbus variant they originally wanted got cancelled, BUT the main reason was because Boeing gave them a better deal compared to Airbus.
Iâll just say that Hawaiian hasnât necessarily been happy with Boeing after initial delays, but also experiencing the dodgy quality of Boeing as well (the issues arenât just with the MAX lol).
My guess knowing what I know is that theyâd probably go for Airbus again if they could, but theyâre too far in with Boeing to turn back right now (think Southwest with the MAX 7, but not as dire)
I'm curious, the additional efficiency of the 787 compensates the additional training requirements and maintenance cost?
That must have been a really good price they got to introduce a complete new chain of costs.
And seeing the issues with fasteners tightened from the wrong side, I'm not so sure about its resale values either.
@@jantjarks7946 Iâm not disagreeing with you at all man; you got good points. It was a nice deal⊠at least on paper at the time to justify the purchase lol
Why anybody would think that the issues didn't go beyond the MAX I find incredible. There's every chance the 777x. will become the 777xMAX!
â@@johnchristmas7522 The 777x is not even released for service yet. They know damn well not the release it now.
Could it be that Hawaiian Airlines is going to soon be a part of the Alaska Airlines group which is âProudly All-Boeingâ?
The order was made years before Alaskaâs start of acquisition efforts
@@Blank00 Alaska and Hawaiian were in talks well before the pandemic.
Maybe not after all is said and done. Alaska actually really liked the 321âs they had but itâs well known that Virgin America had horrible leases on their aircraft so those were definitely not sticking around.
Short story: Hawaiian knew the 787 is a great aircraft, so thatâs why they chose the aircraft
Keep up the good videos man!
Airbus has made the A330 NEO into a high circle aircraft like a narrow body airframe. Most asian airlines are choosing A330 neo for exactly that ability to be flown multiple times a day on medium haul flights.
you meant cycle?
these videos just keep getting better good work as always
Thanks for the vid
Once again a pretty good video. Your explanation what airlines consider when ordering airplanes was very clear and to the point. Keep the good videos rolling Coby.
Man I hope they'll bring their new Dreamliners here in Manila. HA's livery has always been one of the more refreshing ones among Western carriers.
"Dreamliner" has different connotations to me irrespective of the livery.
Great video Coby keep them coming however, I do have a few small things that I think you missed that affect why Hawaiian Airlines đș ordered the B787:
First off, before the Airbus A330-200 (the smaller variant that they fly) they used to fly the McDonell Douglas DC-10 and then in turn replacing the DC-10 with the Boeing 767-300ER retired in 2019. Hawaiian has always been a fan of the American made aircraft especially after Boeing acquired McDonell Douglas in 1997, because of this Hawaiian already knew that Boeing was a reliable company for their operations. (despite recent question about the reliability)
Second, the decision to order the Airbus A330 was probably also affected by the places that they flew, what I mean by that is many Asian airlines had ordered the B787 to replace their aging and Boeing 767s and at least historically a lot of decisions Hawaiian Airlines made weâre pretty aligned with the Asian airlines tended to do. Especially the Japanese carriers due to a large Japanese-American population and former Japanese-American leaders at Hawaiian. Iâm sure part of their decision was affected by the decisions of ANA and JAL đŻđ” Since both of these airlines operated Boeing 767s and looked to the B787 Dreamer to replace them, Hawaiian Airlines leadership felt that it would be wise to do the same after the A330neo order cancellation.
Third, major US carrier United Airlines was a major customer and operator of the B767 in fact, they were the launch customer for the type, in 2002 United Airlines ordered the upcoming B787 aircraft Hawaiian Airlines also took note, United Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines have shared and partnered on many different routes to from the US and Hawaii for many years now and when United Airlines made a decision historical, Hawaiian wasnât far behind with the same ideals.
Fourth and final reason, if we look at Hawaiianâs narrow body fleet they used to operate Douglas DC-9 and McDonell Douglas MD-80 series. These jets were primarily used for a short inter island hopper flights by the carrier and helped connect the islands with their main base at Honolulu. After Boeing and McDonell Doulas merged this legacy continued, Hawaiian would go on to order the MD-95 later rebranded as the Boeing 717 these aircraft, although not super popular when they were being produced, Iâve done an excellent job for Hawaiian Airlines connecting the islands and opening up more of Hawaii to travelers.
I think that these reasons listed above certainly helped also affect Hawaiian Airlines decision to order the Boeing 787. I also believe that in the future Hawaiian Airlines will order more Boeing aircraft as they never really wanted the Airbus A330 they ordered the A330 mostly because Airbus strong armed them into ordering the jet historically airbus gave them a very, very big discount as much as 70% off! Nowadays, that is completely illegal as there are antitrust laws to prevent âdumpingâ(Selling an aircraft at less than it cost to manufacture to break into a market.) However, we should also keep in mind that a lot of Asian airlines ordered the airbus A330 as well prior to the Boeing B787 being announced, it was the flashing new airplane to replace the B767 and Hawaiian was sold on it be it begrudgingly.
Anyways, great video Coby I really enjoyed this one. Also, I see youâre in the Business Class seat on the new Hawaiian B787-9 does that mean we will soon see a full review of the product on Coby Explores? I hope so! I am also very excited to see Hawaiian get these new B787 aircraft as I will be headed to Hawaii in summer 2025 and I canât wait! đ€© âïž hopefully flying the new Hawaiian B787 Dreamliner! đș đ€
Cheers đ„my friend and fellow aviation CZcamsr.
-Calebâs Aviation
Thanks for the further insight into the history of Hawaiian airlines previous aircraft. Now it makes a little more sense as to why they went with the 787 other than getting a big discount, which Iâm sure didnât hurt either.
Great Video !
Also worth noting is that HA underwent leadership change when the 787 was ordered. In FEB 2018 Peter Ingram replaced Mark Dunkerly and in MAR 2018 the order was announced.
Large Windows that let in natural light... If not locked to closed position...
Other than all the 787 windows are electronic, and don't actually dim to full dark.
Crikey Coby;you look well. Channel must be winning. That's genuinely goodđđ
Great analogy!
Is great your getting the info from the root not the surrounds.
Mt good friend is a Hawaiian Airlines pilot and he flew Airbus for many years and had to stop to get re-trained on the Dreamliner.
subscribed just cuz I flew on them all my life (born and raised on Oahu) and had the chance to fly on the DC10 silver version back in the 90s and the iconic 717. It is my fav airplane
The 787's wider fuselage also means more competitive business class products can be installed. The 330's fuselage width is too narrow and only space inefficient cabins can be installed if the business class product has to match wider aircraft comfort level.
The A350 did not have this issue.
The 787 is miserable in 9 abreast economy, at least with my shoulder width.
Aircraft of choice for economy A380, A350 (9ab), A220, narrow aisle A320 family and B777x.
Thankfully a lot of airlines don't operate the 787 the 737 or the 777 classic.
I hope the 737/320 successors will be sized for 18 in wide seats with a wide aisle. It would help with boarding speed and enable more competitive lie flat business class seats than what can be installed on the 320, even more so the 737.
Very expert hard cut at about 5:12
as a French, ur French is good Coby !
I just flew out of LAX a few days ago I could have sworn I say a Hawaiian 787 in parking towards the middle west of the airport
Its amazing that the 787 is only 4% more efficient than the A330meo on long range. I was expecting a bigger margin, considering one quite heavy. This gad can be narrowed over time.
As others seem to agree, 2-4-2 in the back is the way to go if you are looking for customer satisfaction. You never have to step over more than one person, you would break up more couples with the odd number 3-3-3 seating. So 240 in the back instead of 266 but the extra comfort of maybe a slightly wider seat, happy customers, etc may just well be worth the 26 seat difference. Come on Hawaiian(Alaska) please think about it. đ
For interisland flights, I think the Boeing 737-700 Max(if it ever comes out) with 138 seats or the E195 with 100 seats,(or 116 single class on the 195) 2 class configurations would be good choices. đ„ł
Very interesting.
does the a350 have the same cabin altitude and humidity benefits as the 787, both being made from composite materials?
With their pending merger with Alaska airlines, Alaska has said that they are excited for the 787 and it's potential to expand their International routes around the Asia Pacific Market
I thought about this before and am happy to see a video about it. Very good points raised, am I'm happy they went on the B787-9 but I still think the A330-900 would have made more sense in the long term. Those planes are cheaper than B787-9 because you reap the benefits now rather than later on resale value... And I really don't think airlines buy a plane for their resale value 20 years down the line.
I donât I know if this is important but you forgot to mention the 767 Hawaiian Airlines retried
IM SO EARLY! time to watch the video now!
Great Video, thanks. The very reason some Airlines choose the 787 (9 abreast seating) is the reason I choose the airline that flies the A330-900 (8 abreast). I prefer not to fly on Cattle Cars and/or Boeings. I understand why the cheaper 787 is popular with Bean Counters , but they won't get my business if there is a better alternative (IMO).
I thought the direct Airbus competitor of the 787 was the A350, not 330 . . . ?
HA should be cautious about the quality (or lack of) issues that Boeing is experiencing and will continue to for the foreseeable future.
Given the recent news of Boeing whistlelowers dying suddenly or being sacked as well as the actual mechanical disasters I think that Boeing is only one major accident away from a major loss of confidence by the flying public right now. That will mean a 'significant' degree of people refusing to fly on Boeing planes, and given profit margins, that could have a dramatic knock-on effect of a relatively small number of people only making that decision to not fly on Boeing. That could mean some airlines going out of business and the impact on the industry would be monumental. I think by comparison, Airbus still has a lot of goodwill in hand.
Hawaiian trying everything from the DC 8 L1011 and Dc 10 still trying to figure out what they want
Lol Hawaiian Air was always a Boeing loyalist when I grew up that always flew the 767 into San diego And that's all I saw.
Finally, Boeing coming back up
*casually flaunts premium seat*
Hawaiian probably purchased the 787-9 because Airbus was offering a deal on the A330 but not the A350-900, they didn't need to because the A350 is selling as well as the 787. Being able to fly nonstop to Singapore or London or Paris while not very likely is always a plus.
Passengers prefer 2-4-2, but 3-3-3 offers more seating capacity for the airline. Plus, Hawaiian got those 787s for a cheap price
Correct but 2-4-2 B787 does exist look at JL
@@EpicThe112 yes, but Hawaiian uses 3-3-3
@ludlos thanks for telling me about that and if you look at the Japanese example that's explained as JL vs NH B787s JL 2-4-2 while NH is 3-3-3.
Hawaiian's long haul (mainland or Asia) flights are LONG. So a few percent increase in fuel efficiency is not insignificant.
I think the Dreamliner is the best option for Hawaiian. The A330 is great for them, but the neo doesnât make sense. It would take a while until they get one and as Coby said, they got them really cheap. So why donât take the very good 787.
Hawaiian, a full-service airline known for being among the nicer ones in the US, considered putting 9-abreast in an A330neo⊠đđ Luckily common sense prevailed there. Iâm amazed they actually looked into it.
10:18 One thing you missed is the lack of provisions for Passenger-to-Freighter comversions for the 787. And that Freighter conversions are one of the biggest segments for retired passenger airliners.
11:05 I thought you talked about dimmable windows being locked by the cabin crew before? Or is that from flight reviewers? i forgorđ
I mean the a330 freighter isnât very popular on existing aircraft. Most of them just get scrapped anyway
Government pressure perhaps? They were all-in on AB & RR, when they went B787 they didn`t even choose RR hence my first words.
I â€the 787 Dreamliner it is game changing aircraft
Pls make a vid on ElAls recent aircraft orders
How does Israel make money? They dont do, make, anything.....Ohhhh...Since they are chosen....Money just falls out of the sky from god itself...
Babe, wake up, new Coby Explanes video just dropped!
The reason was that the a330neo is less efficient than the 787 which is replacing the a330 also Hawaiian has received discounts
Great video Coby! The Boeing 787 is a great aircraft, and I am excited to see Hawaiian Airlines operating it. Now, in your recent video on the World's Longest Flight, you mentioned the lack of direct flights from Europe to Hawaii. The reason behind this is because most airlines need a steady stream of business travelers to sustain these ultra-long-haul operations. However, as a leisure airline, Hawaiian Airlines doesn't need to do that. They can offer more affordable flights for price-sensitive travelers. Combine that with the ultra-long-haul capabilities of the 787 and Hawaiian suddenly has a winning recipe to capture a market that has yet to be exploited. Do you think Hawaiian might actually do this? Let me know!
Of course that's what happened. They were offered huge switchback discounts. Now they might be second-guessing their second-guessing. But they couldn't anticipate Boeing's continuing problems at the time.
Coby botching the French made my morning đđđ. Good luck with your travels and language learning!
Haha my accent sucks I know
â€Imagine the coming Boeing 777x how great will beâ€
Airbus is more interesting, specially for medium and short-haul. Always preferred it, 320neo, 321neo - way more comfortable compared to boeing options. 330 is a bit comlicated but it is still a very efficient plane specially for multiple flights per day which is what most airlines use it for.
Does this have anything to do with the merger/buyout by Alaska Airlines?
Hawaiian Airlines made the right choice for Boeing 787 Dreamliners!!!!
I'd suggest 767-400 but they don't sell those anymore!
Many Americans still think in terms of US-Europe when talking about Boeing-Airbus. Nothing is further from the truth. Airbus has a major facility in Mobile Alabama and is now also an American company.
Pretty obvious really, a dam good cheap price plus a kick back. Me? I would consider my customer lives first and go Airbus, despite the generous offer and anyway all they had to do was ask a whistle blower, they call them flying coffins!
The 787 hasn't had any fatal crashes
Anyone else notice the audio is out of sync with the video?
Sorry, did they forgot the A350-900?
For aloha price after discounts from Boeing?
Whatâs going to happen to the a330?
This video came out a day ago (28 Jun 2024) but seems to be referencing decisions made by Hawaiian Air in 2018. With all the recent bad news about Boeing quality control and aircraft coming apart mid-flight, Iâm now wondering whatâs going through Hawaiian Airâs leadersâ minds with respect to any r remaining pending orders.
With Alaska purchasing Hawaiian, I suspect Hawaiians fleet with eventually consist of 787âs and 737 maxâs. I think that theyâll replace their 717âs with E2 jets, seeing as Alaska already flies them.
Their 787 deliveries will be slower than they need. đ
Boeings best planes were the 757 and 767 by far.
Of course Boeing needs to be aggressive with pricing... Given the last 3-4 years and how the demonstrate they put profits above safety, they need to cut on price if they want to sell as before...
Hawaiian Airlines I hope to fly on them in the upcoming years which I'll have on my Bucket list!!!!
I wonder if this directive came from Seattle
Is it not because they were bought by Alaska which is an all Boeing fleet?
I also realize that Alaska said they will run Hawaiian as a separate brand and so the all Boeing fleet commitment maybe doesnât apply to them.
They ordered the 787 years before the merger was on the radar and Alaska Airlines is all narrowbody (mainline is all 737, regional is all E-175)
They ordered these Dreamliners way before the Alaska merger was announced. I also doubt they wanted to âlook more appealingâ to them because of their aircraft choice.
@@insainllamathey will keep both âbrandsâ so both liveries, both websites, etc but underneath the hood it will be a single airline.
What does anyone think of the Hawaiian Airline and Alaska Airline merger
Hawaiian basically has no money and had to go with the cheapest option with the A330 family. Boeing wanted to cancel out an AB customer and Hawaii is a show place for any supplier ...
I guess I didnt need to know after all.
Would you ask the HawaiianAirlines what they think about Boeing carefulness with door bolts, fuselage assembly, and about automatic systems which can down a plane if a measurement is false?
I mean, some of the details about MCAS and 787 production are currently under investigation by FAA or Congress for having become sloppy regarding production carefulness, so every question which comes out as a reminder to improve security levels will make Boeing consider doing better instead of just claiming they are good.
Why did this Airbus loyalist just SWITCH to Boeing?
Because they like standing in queues
I still don't justify, nor comprehend the switch to the 787...
You said benefactor but I believe you meant to say beneficiary
Hope this doesn't turn out to be a price over quality decision.
You can always hope. - that they arrive!
100 view after 3 mins, wow, keep it up coby
Yeahh it is a given Hawaiin got a deal. But all valid reasons, really. The dreamliner is a better plane coupled with lower acquisition costs its a given it was likely a tight race.
A350-800 ->> A330-800 ->> A330-900 ->> 787-9
could they have adopted a 2-4-2 on the 787 or is that not possible?
Absolutely possible. Google Japan airlines 787 seat map.
While I like the A330 and A350, I prefer the 777 and 787 over both of those. They made the right decision.
Old 777 good choice- 787 called flying coffins by the whistle blowers
The 777 is the greatest airplane ever created.
Im Airbus, but i think Hawaiian do their best decision, if...the demand went crazy and dreamliner cant afford it, i think they look after the A350 soon or later
On paper, the choice is great. However, giving the recent troubles with Boeing's production line, it will take longer to receive these planes.
You pivoted from the short A350 to the short A330 to the long A330, which brought the 787 into consideration. And then it was sll 787 vs A330. But you didnât explane why the long A350 didnât come back into consideration when the 787 did. Why not?
just one foot wider plane body allows for an extra seat? eek! i guess the chieftains better travel first class đ
Never going on a Boeing. Aloha, Hawaiian.
I disagree regarding the comfort.
The A330 is way more comfortable
Was expecting A350 option for HA. Left disappointed.
Hawaiian burned so much customer loyalty by jacking up their ticket prices when their main competitor went out of business, and they really stuck it to us for years until Southwest showed up and challenged them on fares. They may call themselves Hawaiian, but they're pretty short on aloha.