Interview with Giles Tremlett on the International Brigades of the Spanish Civil War
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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In the 1930s, 35,000 men and women from 61 different countries travelled to Spain to defend democracy against General Franco’s army. Collectively, they are remembered as the International Brigades.
In this episode of Travels Through Time, the journalist and historian Giles Tremlett takes us back to the year 1936 to learn more about the International Brigades. How important were they? Who were the leaders? How do we remember them today?
Show notes
Scene One: Barcelona on July 19, 1936 - The day that the (failed) coup launched by General Franco and others reaches Barcelona
Scene Two: Paris, Quai d'Orsay - October 10 1936 - Groups of young men hang around the platform for the night-train to Marseilles. They include Cambridge poet John Cornford, future Harvard Classics professor Bernard Knox, communist writer John Sommerfield and British-based German exile painter Jan Kurzke.
Scene Three: Madrid - November 8 1936 - The same people who arrived just four weeks earlier are now in uniform marching up the Gran Via in Madrid to the University City, which will soon become the front line.
Memento: A varsity-style team jacket worn by the USA team for the People's Olympiad
People/Social
Presenter: Peter Moore
Interview: John Hillman
Guest: Giles Tremlett
Production: Maria Nolan
Podcast partner: Colorgraph
Follow us on Twitter: @tttpodcast_
See where 1936 fits on our Timeline
Thanks so much for the video. I'm currently teaching a course on the Second Spanish Republic and the Spanish Civil War here in the UK (I'm Spanish), and I know my students will love this interview. Cheers 👋
Thanks JJ that's great to hear. Really appreciate it!
Laurie Lee's "As I walked Out One Midsummer Morning" and "A Moment of War" are two great books that offer a first-hand account of the struggle and division experienced by Spain in 1935-1936.
Love Laurie Lee's writing. Must check that out. Thanks Francesco.
@@TravelsThroughTime you are welcome! I've actually posted a review about the first book, which you can find here: czcams.com/video/AhO6bb5XJrc/video.html
Congratulations for this amazing episode.
Thanks Pablo!
39:03 former IB men forming resistance units during ww2... well, before that interesting things took place as well... in 1939-1941 many Polish (and guess other) IB men in France were busy convincing people that they should keep out of the imperialist war, that bourgeoisie intended to use them as canon fodder...
13:50 "the day before [i.e. on July 18] the coup starts in Madrid"... there was no action taken in Madrid on the 18th. Fanjul arrived in the Montana barracks on the 19th mid day
I have changed my mind again. I will order the book, it is 64 złoty here, to have even more fun. When in Warsaw give me a shout mr. Tremlett, would be amusing to have a vodka or two with you
Despite all rubbish and prop I enjoyed it. I felt like back in my youth, in the 1970s in Poland, the same style, language, threads, exaltation... had to open a vodka to celebrate
13:43 "tanks taking to the streets of Barcelona"... this is perhaps the most amusing idiocy. The Spanish army had some 5 (five) tanks at all, either prototypes or old F17, none of them in running state
37:38 indian philosophy books as front cover in the IB trenches... how moving... I was wept... philosophy at the service of liberty.. and the subaltetn can finally speak!
18:18 "the republic does not have the army because the army has gone to the other side". The republic does not have an army cause they have effectively dissolved it. And appearing on a street of Madrid in officer's uniform meant almost certain death. The have deprived themselves of an army on their own request
godly
17:17 "spontaneously travelling"... come on men, we are not kids. Comintern built a complex and costly machinery of recruitnent and logistics, including financing of travel, papers, accomodation and so on. And many party members were simply ordered to go, others were bullied to go, shamed to go, manipulated to go
29:54 "they are tall, they are blond"... wtf? Could you please share info what was the height (in cm) of an average IB man vs the height of an average Spanish male? Dying to learn
12:02 "hitler's games"... I thought the organizer was International Olympic Games Committee???
13:25 Franco is based in Africa when the coup started... well indeed Canary Islands are Africs, aren't they?
10:45 monarchy was overthrown in 1932...
17:04 "the last history of IB, written in the 1980s..." man, a bibliography book of works on IB, issued I think in 2012, lists around 500 titles... are you so much in love with yourself?
22:01 "the idea of popular front which comintern came to embrace"... embrace? Following the diaster in Germany Stalin told comintern that they were
No longer expected to fight socialist-fascists but join forces with them. So they executed orders they were given, dare they not!
Interesting discussion, if a bit simplistic. However your interlude / intro music is way too loud and jarring.
IB were "sort of organized by comintern" but they were not comintern's army... comintern was "sort of controlled by Moscow", but IB were not Stalin's tool... this is the logic!
31:45 on Madrid population terrified by news of Franco troops shooting people... yes, early November. Paracuellos was already in full swing. But this is not what madrilenos feared, no, why should they?
Non-intervention as beginning of the appeasement... what about Hitler denouncing de-armament obligations in 35? And Italian invasion in Africa in 35? And remilitarisation of Rheinland in March 36?
8:05 "franco's air force was 2/3 controlled by hitler and mussolini"... perhaps. And republican air force was 9/10 controlled by Stalin. Hidalgo de Cisneros was merely a front man for Smushkevitsch and his successors
La Passionaria as authority on democracy... After Feb 36, when Spanish democracy was already in tatters - to which PCE greatly contributed - when respondong to meagre complaints that PCE proposals are not constitutional, she declared: it is the peoples will which defines what is legal! And of course she did not mean a referendum to see what is "peoples will". Peoples will is expressed by PCE, the only genuine representative of the people. Ergo: what PCE wants is legal and right.
11:11 the church and the landowners decided to have a coup in 1936... hilarious
"country divided between anarchists, communists and socialists on the one side, and reactionary generals, landowners and priests on the other" 2:00. Man do you want to be taken seriously? This intro says it all
"Dictator sending their troops, Hitler and Mussolini"... there was one more dictator sending troops, quite a biggie... they called The Sun of the Peoples, you know?
130 pages into the book ans the most brave of all is Durruti.Where the republicans and brigaders exempt of any murders,rapes or misbehaviour? Enjoying the book but some of the sugarcoating on the actions of one of the sides i dont think its very positive to the reality of the moment then.
I Love The USSR
36:15 "they basically held a third of that line [i. e. Madrid frontline]. ??? There were no more than 2.000 IB men in Madrid in November 36. They formed at best 10% of the defenders. You are a Spanish national now? So you seem quite disdainful to your co-nationals
Stalin sent not enough aid, so they volunteered... thought they were sent by comintern, and this means Stalin?
23:30 Paris full of exiles from authoritarian Poland and they volunteered.... buhahaha... there were perhaps 15 political exiles from PL in paris, all retired politicians. 100% of Poles recruited in France were economic migrants, man. Guess the same for Hungarians that you also mention
"First victim of political extremism of the 20th century".. well, what about a big country a bit more east? They had something like bolshoi, or bolero, or bortsch... ever hearf of?
6:41 "general Franco and his generals rising against the republican democracy"... there was not much of this democracy left, but this is not the point. It was Franco and his generals rising. If you really want to personalize the coup, it was Mola's coup. Or Sanjurjo's. The next in line were Queipo, Goded, Fanjul. Then perhaps Cabanellas. Franco did not even enter the Junta initially... but you love your demons so much...
And this endless myth of international fraternity, unity, common goal... well, the Jews were so desperate to get out of the Polish unit, where they suffered from antisemitism, that eventually they opted out and formed the Botwin company
8:26 "blitzkrieg is practiced in Spain"... where did you get this idiocy from? Franco was lambasted for being unimaginative, slow, overly systematic, overcautious... how was Legion Condor supposed to practice blitzkrieg if they were only 20% ground troops? Show me a single Nationalist blitzkrieg-style operation
8:46 "republic which could have expected support from other democracies"... the word "other" does not fit here, as republic was hardly a democracy any more. And given chaotic, sectarian, bloody, fanatic, witch-hunting revolution unfolding with some 1.000 murdered per week I found it doubtful whether they could have expected support from London and Paris
6:26 "Franco very close to fully-fledged fascist" - ye, go on with your beloved hate. Franco fascist? A staunch Catholic, tending to monarchism, opportunist, pragmatic to extreme, military strongly adverse to ideology and theorizing, perhaps a bit of a dumb incapable of abstract reflection, who re-defined his regime continuously throughout 40 years... grow up man, have a sense of distinction. In the 1930 Roosevelt, MacDonalds and even Azana were dubbed fascists, if you fancy going this way...