5:19 “there has always been the scripture from the first century” The scriptures existed in manuscripts in the first century, but we know, as a historical fact, that Christians did not know what the canon of the New Testament was until the 300s. Many early church leaders thought the letters of Clement, Ignatius, and the Shepherd of Hermas were scripture. Other church leaders thought Hebrews didn’t belong because it has an anonymous author. Some church leaders thought Revelation didn’t belong because they couldn’t understand it. To claim Christians had the Bible from the first century and used it to know the true faith is historically inaccurate. Christ gave us a church with specific teaching authority to teach the faith. That church, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, gave us the canon of scripture which we use. God bless! Keep fighting the good fight of faith, brothers
While the canon was adopted until the late third century, the scriptures themselves were all written before 100ad. Lists were already being circulated prior to 150ad that closely resembled the current canon in some places./..
@@bigtobacco1098 absolutely agree! The New Testament scriptures were all written in the first century. *Competing* lists of the canon were being circulated all the way up to the 4th century. Many bishops disagreed with one another on what the New Testament is. The Catholic Church definitively defined the New Testament canon. All Christians today use this list for the New Testament!
@@raydudo3672 the early believers used the oral teachings from the Apostles and the gifts of the Spirit, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, discernment were essential to the early church who relied heavily on the Spirit to get correct doctrine
New Covenant Whole Gospel: What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the CZcams videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Popes Jesus 1. St. Peter (32-67) 2. St. Linus (67-76) 3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) 4. St. Clement I (88-97) 5. St. Evaristus (97-105) 6. St. Alexander I (105-115) 7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) 8. St. Telesphorus (125-136) 9. St. Hyginus (136-140) 10. St. Pius I (140-155) 11. St. Anicetus (155-166) 12. St. Soter (166-175) 13. St. Eleutherius (175-189) 14. St. Victor I (189-199) 15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217) 16. St. Callistus I (217-22) 17. St. Urban I (222-30) 18. St. Pontian (230-35) 19. St. Anterus (235-36) 20. St. Fabian (236-50) 21. St. Cornelius (251-53) 22. St. Lucius I (253-54) 23. St. Stephen I (254-257) 24. St. Sixtus II (257-258) 25. St. Dionysius (260-268) 26. St. Felix I (269-274) 27. St. Eutychian (275-283) 28. St. Caius (283-296) 29. St. Marcellinus (296-304) 30. St. Marcellus I (308-309) 31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310) 32. St. Miltiades (311-14) 33. St. Sylvester I (314-35) 34. St. Marcus (336) 35. St. Julius I (337-52) 36. Liberius (352-66) 38. St. Damasus I (366-384) 39. St. Siricius (384-99) 40. St. Anastasius I (399-401) 41. St. Innocent I (401-17) 42. St. Zosimus (417-18) 43. St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419) 44. St. Celestine I (422-32) 45. St. Sixtus III (432-40) 46. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61) 47. St. Hilarius (461-68) 48. St. Simplicius (468-83) 49. St. Felix III (II) (483-92) 50. St. Gelasius I (492-96) 51. Anastasius II (496-98) 52. St. Symmachus (498-514) 53. St. Hormisdas (514-23) 54. St. John I (523-26) 55. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30) 56. Boniface II (530-32) 57. John II (533-35) 58. St. Agapetus I (535-36) 59. St. Silverius (536-37) 60. Vigilius (537-55) 61. Pelagius I (556-61) 62. John III (561-74) 63. Benedict I (575-79) 64. Pelagius II (579-90) 65. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604) 66. Sabinian (604-606) 67. Boniface III (607) 68. St. Boniface IV (608-15) 69. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18) 70. Boniface V (619-25) 71. Honorius I (625-38) 72. Severinus (640) 73. John IV (640-42) 74. Theodore I (642-49) 75. St. Martin I (649-55) 76. St. Eugene I (655-57) 77. St. Vitalian (657-72) 78. Adeodatus (II) (672-76) 79. Donus (676-78) 80. St. Agatho (678-81) 81. St. Leo II (682-83) 82. St. Benedict II (684-85) 83. John V (685-86) 84. Conon (686-87) 85. St. Sergius I (687-701) 86. John VI (701-05) 87. John VII (705-07) 88. Sisinnius (708) 89. Constantine (708-15) 90. St. Gregory II (715-31) 91. St. Gregory III (731-41) 92. St. Zachary (741-52) 93. Stephen II (III) (752-57) 94. St. Paul I (757-67) 96. Stephen III (IV) (767-772) 97. Adrian I (772-95) 98. St. Leo III (795-816) 99. Stephen IV (V) (816-17) 100. St. Paschal I (817-24) 101. Eugene II (824-27) 102. Valentine (827) 103. Gregory IV (827-44) 104. Sergius II (844-47) 105. St. Leo IV (847-55) 106. Benedict III (855-58) 107. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67) 108. Adrian II (867-72) 109. John VIII (872-82) 110. Marinus I (882-84) 111. St. Adrian III (884-85) 112. Stephen V (VI) (885-91) 113. Formosus (891-96) 114. Boniface VI (896) 115. Stephen VI (VII) (896-97) 116. Romanus (897) 117. Theodore II (897) 118. John IX (898-900) 119. Benedict IV (900-03) 120. Leo V (903) 121. Sergius III (904-11) 122. Anastasius III (911-13) 123. Lando (913-14) 124. John X (914-28) 125. Leo VI (928) 126. Stephen VIII (929-31) 127. John XI (931-35) 128. Leo VII (936-39) 129. Stephen IX (939-42) 130. Marinus II (942-46) 131. Agapetus II (946-55) 132. John XII (955-63) 133. Leo VIII (963-64) 134. Benedict V (964) 135. John XIII (965-72) 136. Benedict VI (973-74) 137. Benedict VII (974-83) 138. John XIV (983-84) 139. John XV (985-96) 140. Gregory V (996-99) 141. Sylvester II (999-1003) 142. John XVII (1003) 143. John XVIII (1003-09) 144. Sergius IV (1009-12) 145. Benedict VIII (1012-24) 146. John XIX (1024-32) 147. Benedict IX (1032-45) 148. Sylvester III (1045) 149. Benedict IX (1045) 150. Gregory VI (1045-46) 151. Clement II (1046-47) 152. Benedict IX (1047-48) 153. Damasus II (1048) 154. St. Leo IX (1049-54) 155. Victor II (1055-57) 156. Stephen X (1057-58) 157. Nicholas II (1058-61) 158. Alexander II (1061-73) 159. St. Gregory VII (1073-85) 160. Blessed Victor III (1086-87) 161. Blessed Urban II (1088-99) 162. Paschal II (1099-1118) 163. Gelasius II (1118-19) 164. Callistus II (1119-24) 166. Honorius II (1124-1130) 167. Innocent II (1130-43) 168. Celestine II (1143-44) 169. Lucius II (1144-45) 170. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53) 171. Anastasius IV (1153-54) 172. Adrian IV (1154-59) 173. Alexander III (1159-81) 174. Lucius III (1181-85) 175. Urban III (1185-87) 176. Gregory VIII (1187) 177. Clement III (1187-91) 178. Celestine III (1191-98) 179. Innocent III (1198-1216) 180. Honorius III (1216-27) 181. Gregory IX (1227-41) 182. Celestine IV (1241) 183. Innocent IV (1243-54) 184. Alexander IV (1254-61) 185. Urban IV (1261-64) 186. Clement IV (1265-68) 187. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76) 188. Blessed Innocent V (1276) 189. Adrian V (1276) 190. John XXI (1276-77) 191. Nicholas III (1277-80) 192. Martin IV (1281-85) 193. Honorius IV (1285-87) 194. Nicholas IV (1288-92) 195. St. Celestine V (1294) 196. Boniface VIII (1294-1303) 197. Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04) 198. Clement V (1305-14) 199. John XXII (1316-34) 200. Benedict XII (1334-42) 201. Clement VI (1342-52) 202. Innocent VI (1352-62) 203. Blessed Urban V (1362-70) 204. Gregory XI (1370-78) 205. Urban VI (1378-89) 206. Boniface IX (1389-1404) 208. Innocent VII (1404-06) 209. Gregory XII (1406-15) 210. Martin V (1417-31) 211. Eugene IV (1431-47) ( 212. Nicholas V (1447-55) 213. Callistus III (1455-58) 214. Pius II (1458-64) 215. Paul II (1464-71) 216. Sixtus IV (1471-84) 217. Innocent VIII (1484-92) 218. Alexander VI (1492-1503) 219. Pius III (1503) 220. Julius II (1503-13) 221. Leo X (1513-21) 222. Adrian VI (1522-23) 223. Clement VII (1523-34) 224. Paul III (1534-49) 225. Julius III (1550-55) 226. Marcellus II (1555) 227. Paul IV (1555-59) 228. Pius IV (1559-65) 229. St. Pius V (1566-72) 230. Gregory XIII (1572-85) 231. Sixtus V (1585-90) 232. Urban VII (1590) 233. Gregory XIV (1590-91) 234. Innocent IX (1591) 235. Clement VIII (1592-1605) 236. Leo XI (1605) 237. Paul V (1605-21) 238. Gregory XV (1621-23) 239. Urban VIII (1623-44) 240. Innocent X (1644-55) 241. Alexander VII (1655-67) 242. Clement IX (1667-69) 243. Clement X (1670-76) 244. Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89) 245. Alexander VIII (1689-91) 246. Innocent XII (1691-1700) 247. Clement XI (1700-21) 248. Innocent XIII (1721-24) 249. Benedict XIII (1724-30) 250. Clement XII (1730-40) 251. Benedict XIV (1740-58) 252. Clement XIII (1758-69) 253. Clement XIV (1769-74) 254. Pius VI (1775-99) 255. Pius VII (1800-23) 256. Leo XII (1823-29) 257. Pius VIII (1829-30) 258. Gregory XVI (1831-46) 259. Blessed Pius IX (1846-78) 260. Leo XIII (1878-1903) 261. St. Pius X (1903-14) 262. Benedict XV (1914-22) 263. Pius XI (1922-39) 264. Pius XII (1939-58) 265. St. John XXIII (1958-63) 266. Paul VI (1963-78) 267. John Paul I (1978) 268. St. John Paul II (1978-2005) 269. Benedict XVI (2005-2013) 270. Francis (2013
This question needed a historical response. From the early church to Catholicism, to orthodox churches to other traditional churches to Restoration.. noting migration from Ireland to USA and the church of Christ
I was CoC for 34yrs.... You men have above avg knowledge but its both partial knowledge and its a Stone-Campbell flavor of protestantism. And its extremely hard for you to see that because your identity is defined (and likely your emotions) by modern day Churches of Christ. I've been through it and my claim is valid. I can no longer associate myself w/CoC because of an unwritten theology of denying the Laws of Yahweh. CoC's make three basic fallacies: 1. Pretext to make yourself sound like you are the church that Christ established. (Rom 16:16) 2. Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7) 3. Presupposition the laws of Yahweh are the exact same thing as the old covenant. (hence the unbiblical term "old law" stated as de-facto) If modern day CoC's were the exact same church mentioned in Acts.. why do you not keep the Sabbath? They did. Paul did and encouraged the gentile converts to not let anyone judge them for it. 15 Yrs after the cross JAMES the brother of Yeshua stated de-facto that these new gentile converts would be learning the Laws.. in church.. on the Sabbath. 15 yrs after the cross! Why can CoC's not see that? Paul never said the laws of Yah would be "nailed to the cross". That's a straight up 100% out of context use of Col ch2. Isa 66 shows the Sabbath will be kept in the times of the new heavens and ne earth. Why can you not see that? Our Lord and savior PLAINLY said.. "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Why do you not believe what our messiah said? I've studied this is great depth. Even bought the 854 page encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell movement. Also went to Bethany to see the place for myself. Modern day Churches of Christ teach a heresy in that the basic laws of Yahweh were abolished at the cross. I'll leave this post with a message from John... So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the *COMMANDMENTS OF GOD* and hold to the *TESTIMONY OF JESUS*. Shalom
Truthnottradition - There is a lot to your comment and I'll try to address it thoroughly. - Dan Owen Pretext to make yourself sound like you are the church that Christ established. (Rom 16:16) · Answer: We believe any group can be a true church of Christ if they believe and practice what Christ and his apostles commanded us to do. Any association we have with what is called the Restoration Movement does not make us true churches of Christ. Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7) · Answer: God’s laws given to Moses and the nation of Israel were not given to other nations. Exodus 19:5-6; 20:1-2. The law of Moses was “added because of transgressions until the seed should come to whom the promise was made,” (Galatians 3:19-25). Because God swore that the priesthood would change, he had to change the law of Moses to keep that promise (Hebrews 7:12). Presupposition the laws of Yahweh are the exact same thing as the old covenant. (hence the unbiblical term "old law" stated as de-facto) · Answer: The Old Covenant as defined in Hebrews 8:13 is the one God made with the forfathers when “he took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, which covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them” (Hebrews 8:9-10). The laws stipulated in Exodus-Numbers were the stipulations of the agreement God made with Israel (Exodus 24:7-9). If modern day CoC's were the exact same church mentioned in Acts.. they would keep the Sabbath. · Answer: Where in Acts does it say that Christians kept the Sabbath? If you are talking about Acts 13 or Acts 18 when Paul entered the Synagogue to teach them about Christ, that had nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath. That was just the perfect opportunity to teach Christ to the Jews. The Christians met on “The First Day of the Week” (Acts 20:7). Paul himself said that we should not let anyone judge us on the keeping of holy days and Sabbath days because they were just shadows of what was to come in the Messianic age (Colossians 2:16-17; Hebrews 10:1). Paul never said the laws of Yah would be "nailed to the cross". · Answer: You are correct about the meaning of Colossians 2. However, in Ephesians 2:14-15, Christ clearly removed the Law of Moses, the barrier between Jews and Gentiles when he died on the cross and made them into “one new man” namely, Christians. Our Lord and savior PLAINLY said.. "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished,” · Answer: Jesus did not destroy the Law, he fulfilled it. The law said to sacrifice Lambs, but he fulfilled it when he became the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. The law commanded Levitical priests to sacrifice animals, but Jesus became both our High priest and our perfect sacrifice. In these and other ways he fulfilled the law so that it became obsolete. I'll leave this post with a message from John... So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and hold to the *TESTIMONY OF JESUS*." · Answer: The commandments of God which we keep today are the commandments of Jesus Christ and his apostles (Matthew 28:19-20).
@@Broadwaycoc Brother thank you for your reply! Laws of God and specifically the 7th day Sabbath is something I've studied in great depth. And as a result I discovered CoC's (which I both taught and preached in for 34yrs) are demonstrably protestant and theologically dispensationalist. I'll add this too.. after studying the restoration / Campbell-Stone movement and specifically Campbells "Sermon on the law" from 1816.... I can no longer think and act in those ways. They simply are not Biblical. Rather the construct we see in the Bible are Laws of God PLUS Covenants. Nowhere do we see the 7th day Sabbath abolished, nor do we see Protestantism (replacing Israel), nor do we see dispensation theology. Covenants have specific laws / instructions (Torah) associated with them. Covenants overlay those basic laws of God. Covenants never subvert or remove His holy and basic laws for mankind. Specifically the "ten words" (aka 10 commandments) are BASIC LAWS of God that are high level details about how to serve the greatest commands / principals of Loving Him and loving our neighbor. They are NOT covenant specific laws. You can see this for yourself if you do a timeline study for each of the ten. (I used an excel spread sheet to list out before Mt Sinai and after cross verses). I know I made a lot of claims in the first and this second post. But they are demonstrable. And even in your first response, you demonstrate the very points I was stating. I'm going to make separate posts for each point.... ❤
@@Broadwaycoc Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7) · Answer: God’s laws given to Moses and the nation of Israel were not given to other nations. Exodus 19:5-6; 20:1-2. The law of Moses was “added because of transgressions until the seed should come to whom the promise was made,” (Galatians 3:19-25). Because God swore that the priesthood would change, he had to change the law of Moses to keep that promise (Hebrews 7:12). Brother your approaching the Bible with a PRESUPPOSITION that Laws of God were given only to Moses. And your conflating them w/the old covenant and covenant specific laws. Hence the term I've heard nearly every bible lesson / sermon since 1987. "OLD LAW". CoC's say "old law" which is a non-biblical description to lump laws of God - laws of Moses - old covenant into ONE entity. This is why CoC's demand a "command" for everything we believers in Yeshua (Jesus) do. For example CoC's demand a commandment to keep the 7th day Sabbath for the Christian. That mindset / theology is rooted in dispensationalism. It's NOT biblical to think His basic laws were ended at the cross and replaced with something completely new. It was a SIN to commit adultery BEFORE Mt Sinai. Genesis 39:9 Please notice two things... 1. Nowhere do we see a "command" to not commit adultery prior to that verse. 2. How did Joseph know it was a sin against his fellow man and against God? This is a hard core Bible verse that calls it sin. But it doesn't fit the "must have a commandment" theology of dispensationalism and CoC's. Joseph knew because of knowledge that we don't have scripture for. If you believe Genesis 39:9 to be holy scripture then we have to see it as self evident this was known to be a basic law of God that was repeated in the 10 words our Father wrote in stone with His own finger... TWICE. The other 9 words are exactly the same! All 10 are demonstrable prior to mt Sinai and after the cross.
@@Broadwaycoc Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7) · Answer: God’s laws given to Moses and the nation of Israel were not given to other nations. Exodus 19:5-6; 20:1-2. The law of Moses was “added because of transgressions until the seed should come to whom the promise was made,” (Galatians 3:19-25). Because God swore that the priesthood would change, he had to change the law of Moses to keep that promise (Hebrews 7:12). In this response you have proven my point. Exodus 19:5-6 context is COVENANT and PRIESTHOOD. N-O-T basic laws of God. The greek for "My covenant" in verse 5 is bᵊrîṯ which in context of... God to man... means an alliance or divine ordinance with signs or pledges. The word for "law" in Exodus is tôrâ (Torah = instructions from God to man). Covenants are NOT basic laws. Rather much like a marriage of man.. we have pre-existing principals upon which we make our "covenant". Yahweh did the exact same thing at Mt Sinai. His basic laws were in place prior to giving of the covenant. Heb 3-9 context is NOT a removal of basic laws of God. It's context IS about a change in priesthood, the specific laws associated to that change, and a change of covenants. Ironicly Heb 3:12-19 lays out a warning for these post cross brethren (likely Jewish believers in Messiah) to NOT do what Israel did in the wilderness. (Ezekiel 22:8 You have despised My holy things and profaned My sabbaths) Ch 4:1-13 spells out how we are to be obedient and to rest in Christ. And specifically to keep the 7th day Sabbath! I mean brother... in verses 9 & 10 he plainly states the 7th day Sabbath that our Father kept and that we (post cross) are to keep. And PLEASE notice Heb ch4 is about ******35yrs after the cross******
@@Broadwaycoc Part A response: If modern day CoC's were the exact same church mentioned in Acts.. they would keep the Sabbath. · Answer: Where in Acts does it say that Christians kept the Sabbath? If you are talking about Acts 13 or Acts 18 when Paul entered the Synagogue to teach them about Christ, that had nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath. That was just the perfect opportunity to teach Christ to the Jews. After Cross Sabbath keeping - Acts 13:14-15 - went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets - Acts 13:27 - the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath - Acts 13:42-46 - In synagogue on Sabbath. And on the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. - Acts 15:19-21 - Writings of Moses being read in the synagogues every Sabbath. - Acts 16:13 - On Sabbath prayer was customarily made at the river. - Acts 17:2 - Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures. - Acts 18:4 - Paul reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. - Matt 24:20 - pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath - Isaiah 66:23 - And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord Specifically Acts 15:21 is a prime example where dispensation theology is fundamentally wrong. James states before the council and before Paul and Barnabas in a de-facto way... and ***15 yrs after the cross*** that the new gentile converts would be in Church on the Sabbath and learning the basic laws of God. I challenge you to answer this... why 15 yrs after the cross is the brother of Jesus confirming gentile converts are learning the laws of God and doing it in church and on every....... sabbath?
@@sparky4581 Show us one verse in the Bible where any apostle implemented foot washing as an ordinance to be performed in a worship assembly. Certainly at least Paul would have mentioned it in 1 Corinthians which is partially devoted to what happens "when you come together as a church." Jesus gave the example of foot washing to his apostles. His apostles under guidance of the Holy Spirit did not include it universally for Christians in their gatherings. Not everything you read, given in Scripture is for everyone. You will never understand what the Bible means until you first understand what it meant - specifically to those Christians living in the first century, because not one word of it was written directly to anyone outside of it's initial audience.
@@larrymcclain8874 I don't really get over concerned with if a person does foot washing of if they get communion every week or if they use grape juice or wine. It doesn't bother me if they use bread with yeast in it or not. It is just the arrogance of the coc that say they do it just like the 1st century church did and in the end by implication the only true church. Thus without direct statement pointing to the church the by way of salvation instead of Jesus. This is the mentality of all the restoration movement the JW's and the LDS. The Orthodox church and the Catholic do the same and say salvation is in the church. I was raised in and around the Coc from personal experience this can't be refuted, though it will be. As for creeds they say we don't have and but say, speak where the bible speaks and silent where the bible is silent. By definition a creed. Point in case say one thing and do or teach another. No foot washing is not an ordinance, it was an example, who knows if foot washing was practiced. The point was being humble and serving one another. I can't remember the exact reason i mentioned the foot washing.
When the laws of God are thrown in the trash can.. there is left a moral void. Instead of getting back to the Bible they (mostly A.C.) just invented a new flavor of conservative but still protestant church.
Greetings, all the coC's salute you. Good stuff, amazing what we can learn from history. Thanks for taking the time to share this, it does seem like there's a grey, dark gap of time between about the 1st-2nd century til the reformation then the explosion of the restoration in the late 1700's. I've often wondered if the restoration would've happened when it did if M Luther hadn't set the ball in motion when he did... We can learn a Lot from history, the bible IS history. Is there really any better history book than the bible?!?!... Halley's bible handbook is a good 1 to keep handy to help fill some gaps between 1st century & the restoration. A lot of us probably don't really grasp the significance of the dead sea scrolls, something else I need to read up on. Right down the road from my home congregation is a tiny little church called Owen's chapel coC that still meets where David Lipscomb preached back in the day. The building still has 2 "separate & apart" front doors; 1 for the men, 1 for the women, no joke. Both my folks are from KY, y'all keep up the good work of the church & gospel up there. take care, - Leeroy
Yeah there was an absolute explosion of Protestantism in the 1700-1800's. IMO it had more to do with the printing press and ability to travel and speak to differing groups.
John Wycliffe was not "Church of Christ denomination" John Wycliffe was an English scholastic philosopher, theologian, biblical translator, reformer, Catholic priest, and a seminary professor at the University of Oxford. He became an influential dissident within the Catholic priesthood during the 14th century and is considered an important predecessor to Protestantism.Wikipedia
I don't think Dan and Jed said he was in the "Church of Christ denomination." If anything they are trying to point out a vein of people/movements drawing the faithful back to Christ throughout history. And like they pointed out, in the end it is up to God to declare those who are righteous according to his judgement.
The Christians before your restoration movement were in the same places they are today; all over the place.
5:19 “there has always been the scripture from the first century”
The scriptures existed in manuscripts in the first century, but we know, as a historical fact, that Christians did not know what the canon of the New Testament was until the 300s. Many early church leaders thought the letters of Clement, Ignatius, and the Shepherd of Hermas were scripture. Other church leaders thought Hebrews didn’t belong because it has an anonymous author. Some church leaders thought Revelation didn’t belong because they couldn’t understand it.
To claim Christians had the Bible from the first century and used it to know the true faith is historically inaccurate. Christ gave us a church with specific teaching authority to teach the faith. That church, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, gave us the canon of scripture which we use.
God bless! Keep fighting the good fight of faith, brothers
While the canon was adopted until the late third century, the scriptures themselves were all written before 100ad. Lists were already being circulated prior to 150ad that closely resembled the current canon in some places./..
@@bigtobacco1098 absolutely agree! The New Testament scriptures were all written in the first century. *Competing* lists of the canon were being circulated all the way up to the 4th century. Many bishops disagreed with one another on what the New Testament is. The Catholic Church definitively defined the New Testament canon. All Christians today use this list for the New Testament!
@@raydudo3672 the early believers used the oral teachings from the Apostles and the gifts of the Spirit, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, discernment were essential to the early church who relied heavily on the Spirit to get correct doctrine
New Covenant Whole Gospel:
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Watch the CZcams videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Popes
Jesus
1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125)
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontian (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)
21. St. Cornelius (251-53)
22. St. Lucius I (253-54)
23. St. Stephen I (254-257)
24. St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25. St. Dionysius (260-268)
26. St. Felix I (269-274)
27. St. Eutychian (275-283)
28. St. Caius (283-296)
29. St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30. St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32. St. Miltiades (311-14)
33. St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34. St. Marcus (336)
35. St. Julius I (337-52)
36. Liberius (352-66)
38. St. Damasus I (366-384)
39. St. Siricius (384-99)
40. St. Anastasius I (399-401)
41. St. Innocent I (401-17)
42. St. Zosimus (417-18)
43. St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419)
44. St. Celestine I (422-32)
45. St. Sixtus III (432-40)
46. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
47. St. Hilarius (461-68)
48. St. Simplicius (468-83)
49. St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
50. St. Gelasius I (492-96)
51. Anastasius II (496-98)
52. St. Symmachus (498-514)
53. St. Hormisdas (514-23)
54. St. John I (523-26)
55. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
56. Boniface II (530-32)
57. John II (533-35)
58. St. Agapetus I (535-36)
59. St. Silverius (536-37)
60. Vigilius (537-55)
61. Pelagius I (556-61)
62. John III (561-74)
63. Benedict I (575-79)
64. Pelagius II (579-90)
65. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
66. Sabinian (604-606)
67. Boniface III (607)
68. St. Boniface IV (608-15)
69. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
70. Boniface V (619-25)
71. Honorius I (625-38)
72. Severinus (640)
73. John IV (640-42)
74. Theodore I (642-49)
75. St. Martin I (649-55)
76. St. Eugene I (655-57)
77. St. Vitalian (657-72)
78. Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
79. Donus (676-78)
80. St. Agatho (678-81)
81. St. Leo II (682-83)
82. St. Benedict II (684-85)
83. John V (685-86)
84. Conon (686-87)
85. St. Sergius I (687-701)
86. John VI (701-05)
87. John VII (705-07)
88. Sisinnius (708)
89. Constantine (708-15)
90. St. Gregory II (715-31)
91. St. Gregory III (731-41)
92. St. Zachary (741-52)
93. Stephen II (III) (752-57)
94. St. Paul I (757-67)
96. Stephen III (IV) (767-772)
97. Adrian I (772-95)
98. St. Leo III (795-816)
99. Stephen IV (V) (816-17)
100. St. Paschal I (817-24)
101. Eugene II (824-27)
102. Valentine (827)
103. Gregory IV (827-44)
104. Sergius II (844-47)
105. St. Leo IV (847-55)
106. Benedict III (855-58)
107. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
108. Adrian II (867-72)
109. John VIII (872-82)
110. Marinus I (882-84)
111. St. Adrian III (884-85)
112. Stephen V (VI) (885-91)
113. Formosus (891-96)
114. Boniface VI (896)
115. Stephen VI (VII) (896-97)
116. Romanus (897)
117. Theodore II (897)
118. John IX (898-900)
119. Benedict IV (900-03)
120. Leo V (903)
121. Sergius III (904-11)
122. Anastasius III (911-13)
123. Lando (913-14)
124. John X (914-28)
125. Leo VI (928)
126. Stephen VIII (929-31)
127. John XI (931-35)
128. Leo VII (936-39)
129. Stephen IX (939-42)
130. Marinus II (942-46)
131. Agapetus II (946-55)
132. John XII (955-63)
133. Leo VIII (963-64)
134. Benedict V (964)
135. John XIII (965-72)
136. Benedict VI (973-74)
137. Benedict VII (974-83)
138. John XIV (983-84)
139. John XV (985-96)
140. Gregory V (996-99)
141. Sylvester II (999-1003)
142. John XVII (1003)
143. John XVIII (1003-09)
144. Sergius IV (1009-12)
145. Benedict VIII (1012-24)
146. John XIX (1024-32)
147. Benedict IX (1032-45)
148. Sylvester III (1045)
149. Benedict IX (1045)
150. Gregory VI (1045-46)
151. Clement II (1046-47)
152. Benedict IX (1047-48)
153. Damasus II (1048)
154. St. Leo IX (1049-54)
155. Victor II (1055-57)
156. Stephen X (1057-58)
157. Nicholas II (1058-61)
158. Alexander II (1061-73)
159. St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
160. Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
161. Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
162. Paschal II (1099-1118)
163. Gelasius II (1118-19)
164. Callistus II (1119-24)
166. Honorius II (1124-1130)
167. Innocent II (1130-43)
168. Celestine II (1143-44)
169. Lucius II (1144-45)
170. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
171. Anastasius IV (1153-54)
172. Adrian IV (1154-59)
173. Alexander III (1159-81)
174. Lucius III (1181-85)
175. Urban III (1185-87)
176. Gregory VIII (1187)
177. Clement III (1187-91)
178. Celestine III (1191-98)
179. Innocent III (1198-1216)
180. Honorius III (1216-27)
181. Gregory IX (1227-41)
182. Celestine IV (1241)
183. Innocent IV (1243-54)
184. Alexander IV (1254-61)
185. Urban IV (1261-64)
186. Clement IV (1265-68)
187. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
188. Blessed Innocent V (1276)
189. Adrian V (1276)
190. John XXI (1276-77)
191. Nicholas III (1277-80)
192. Martin IV (1281-85)
193. Honorius IV (1285-87)
194. Nicholas IV (1288-92)
195. St. Celestine V (1294)
196. Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
197. Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
198. Clement V (1305-14)
199. John XXII (1316-34)
200. Benedict XII (1334-42)
201. Clement VI (1342-52)
202. Innocent VI (1352-62)
203. Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
204. Gregory XI (1370-78)
205. Urban VI (1378-89)
206. Boniface IX (1389-1404)
208. Innocent VII (1404-06)
209. Gregory XII (1406-15)
210. Martin V (1417-31)
211. Eugene IV (1431-47) (
212. Nicholas V (1447-55)
213. Callistus III (1455-58)
214. Pius II (1458-64)
215. Paul II (1464-71)
216. Sixtus IV (1471-84)
217. Innocent VIII (1484-92)
218. Alexander VI (1492-1503)
219. Pius III (1503)
220. Julius II (1503-13)
221. Leo X (1513-21)
222. Adrian VI (1522-23)
223. Clement VII (1523-34)
224. Paul III (1534-49)
225. Julius III (1550-55)
226. Marcellus II (1555)
227. Paul IV (1555-59)
228. Pius IV (1559-65)
229. St. Pius V (1566-72)
230. Gregory XIII (1572-85)
231. Sixtus V (1585-90)
232. Urban VII (1590)
233. Gregory XIV (1590-91)
234. Innocent IX (1591)
235. Clement VIII (1592-1605)
236. Leo XI (1605)
237. Paul V (1605-21)
238. Gregory XV (1621-23)
239. Urban VIII (1623-44)
240. Innocent X (1644-55)
241. Alexander VII (1655-67)
242. Clement IX (1667-69)
243. Clement X (1670-76)
244. Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
245. Alexander VIII (1689-91)
246. Innocent XII (1691-1700)
247. Clement XI (1700-21)
248. Innocent XIII (1721-24)
249. Benedict XIII (1724-30)
250. Clement XII (1730-40)
251. Benedict XIV (1740-58)
252. Clement XIII (1758-69)
253. Clement XIV (1769-74)
254. Pius VI (1775-99)
255. Pius VII (1800-23)
256. Leo XII (1823-29)
257. Pius VIII (1829-30)
258. Gregory XVI (1831-46)
259. Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
260. Leo XIII (1878-1903)
261. St. Pius X (1903-14)
262. Benedict XV (1914-22)
263. Pius XI (1922-39)
264. Pius XII (1939-58)
265. St. John XXIII (1958-63)
266. Paul VI (1963-78)
267. John Paul I (1978)
268. St. John Paul II (1978-2005)
269. Benedict XVI (2005-2013)
270. Francis (2013
This question needed a historical response. From the early church to Catholicism, to orthodox churches to other traditional churches to Restoration.. noting migration from Ireland to USA and the church of Christ
I was CoC for 34yrs....
You men have above avg knowledge but its both partial knowledge and its a Stone-Campbell flavor of protestantism. And its extremely hard for you to see that because your identity is defined (and likely your emotions) by modern day Churches of Christ. I've been through it and my claim is valid.
I can no longer associate myself w/CoC because of an unwritten theology of denying the Laws of Yahweh. CoC's make three basic fallacies:
1. Pretext to make yourself sound like you are the church that Christ established. (Rom 16:16)
2. Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7)
3. Presupposition the laws of Yahweh are the exact same thing as the old covenant. (hence the unbiblical term "old law" stated as de-facto)
If modern day CoC's were the exact same church mentioned in Acts.. why do you not keep the Sabbath? They did. Paul did and encouraged the gentile converts to not let anyone judge them for it.
15 Yrs after the cross JAMES the brother of Yeshua stated de-facto that these new gentile converts would be learning the Laws.. in church.. on the Sabbath. 15 yrs after the cross! Why can CoC's not see that?
Paul never said the laws of Yah would be "nailed to the cross". That's a straight up 100% out of context use of Col ch2.
Isa 66 shows the Sabbath will be kept in the times of the new heavens and ne earth. Why can you not see that?
Our Lord and savior PLAINLY said..
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Why do you not believe what our messiah said?
I've studied this is great depth. Even bought the 854 page encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell movement. Also went to Bethany to see the place for myself.
Modern day Churches of Christ teach a heresy in that the basic laws of Yahweh were abolished at the cross.
I'll leave this post with a message from John...
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the *COMMANDMENTS OF GOD* and hold to the *TESTIMONY OF JESUS*.
Shalom
Truthnottradition - There is a lot to your comment and I'll try to address it thoroughly. - Dan Owen
Pretext to make yourself sound like you are the church that Christ established. (Rom 16:16)
· Answer: We believe any group can be a true church of Christ if they believe and practice what Christ and his apostles commanded us to do. Any association we have with what is called the Restoration Movement does not make us true churches of Christ.
Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7)
· Answer: God’s laws given to Moses and the nation of Israel were not given to other nations. Exodus 19:5-6; 20:1-2. The law of Moses was “added because of transgressions until the seed should come to whom the promise was made,” (Galatians 3:19-25). Because God swore that the priesthood would change, he had to change the law of Moses to keep that promise (Hebrews 7:12).
Presupposition the laws of Yahweh are the exact same thing as the old covenant. (hence the unbiblical term "old law" stated as de-facto)
· Answer: The Old Covenant as defined in Hebrews 8:13 is the one God made with the forfathers when “he took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, which covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them” (Hebrews 8:9-10). The laws stipulated in Exodus-Numbers were the stipulations of the agreement God made with Israel (Exodus 24:7-9).
If modern day CoC's were the exact same church mentioned in Acts.. they would keep the Sabbath.
· Answer: Where in Acts does it say that Christians kept the Sabbath? If you are talking about Acts 13 or Acts 18 when Paul entered the Synagogue to teach them about Christ, that had nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath. That was just the perfect opportunity to teach Christ to the Jews. The Christians met on “The First Day of the Week” (Acts 20:7). Paul himself said that we should not let anyone judge us on the keeping of holy days and Sabbath days because they were just shadows of what was to come in the Messianic age (Colossians 2:16-17; Hebrews 10:1).
Paul never said the laws of Yah would be "nailed to the cross".
· Answer: You are correct about the meaning of Colossians 2. However, in Ephesians 2:14-15, Christ clearly removed the Law of Moses, the barrier between Jews and Gentiles when he died on the cross and made them into “one new man” namely, Christians.
Our Lord and savior PLAINLY said..
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished,”
· Answer: Jesus did not destroy the Law, he fulfilled it. The law said to sacrifice Lambs, but he fulfilled it when he became the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. The law commanded Levitical priests to sacrifice animals, but Jesus became both our High priest and our perfect sacrifice. In these and other ways he fulfilled the law so that it became obsolete.
I'll leave this post with a message from John...
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and hold to the *TESTIMONY OF JESUS*."
· Answer: The commandments of God which we keep today are the commandments of Jesus Christ and his apostles (Matthew 28:19-20).
@@Broadwaycoc Brother thank you for your reply!
Laws of God and specifically the 7th day Sabbath is something I've studied in great depth. And as a result I discovered CoC's (which I both taught and preached in for 34yrs) are demonstrably protestant and theologically dispensationalist. I'll add this too.. after studying the restoration / Campbell-Stone movement and specifically Campbells "Sermon on the law" from 1816.... I can no longer think and act in those ways. They simply are not Biblical.
Rather the construct we see in the Bible are Laws of God PLUS Covenants. Nowhere do we see the 7th day Sabbath abolished, nor do we see Protestantism (replacing Israel), nor do we see dispensation theology.
Covenants have specific laws / instructions (Torah) associated with them. Covenants overlay those basic laws of God. Covenants never subvert or remove His holy and basic laws for mankind.
Specifically the "ten words" (aka 10 commandments) are BASIC LAWS of God that are high level details about how to serve the greatest commands / principals of Loving Him and loving our neighbor. They are NOT covenant specific laws. You can see this for yourself if you do a timeline study for each of the ten. (I used an excel spread sheet to list out before Mt Sinai and after cross verses).
I know I made a lot of claims in the first and this second post. But they are demonstrable. And even in your first response, you demonstrate the very points I was stating. I'm going to make separate posts for each point.... ❤
@@Broadwaycoc
Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7)
· Answer: God’s laws given to Moses and the nation of Israel were not given to other nations. Exodus 19:5-6; 20:1-2. The law of Moses was “added because of transgressions until the seed should come to whom the promise was made,” (Galatians 3:19-25). Because God swore that the priesthood would change, he had to change the law of Moses to keep that promise (Hebrews 7:12).
Brother your approaching the Bible with a PRESUPPOSITION that Laws of God were given only to Moses. And your conflating them w/the old covenant and covenant specific laws. Hence the term I've heard nearly every bible lesson / sermon since 1987. "OLD LAW". CoC's say "old law" which is a non-biblical description to lump laws of God - laws of Moses - old covenant into ONE entity. This is why CoC's demand a "command" for everything we believers in Yeshua (Jesus) do. For example CoC's demand a commandment to keep the 7th day Sabbath for the Christian. That mindset / theology is rooted in dispensationalism. It's NOT biblical to think His basic laws were ended at the cross and replaced with something completely new.
It was a SIN to commit adultery BEFORE Mt Sinai. Genesis 39:9 Please notice two things... 1. Nowhere do we see a "command" to not commit adultery prior to that verse. 2. How did Joseph know it was a sin against his fellow man and against God?
This is a hard core Bible verse that calls it sin. But it doesn't fit the "must have a commandment" theology of dispensationalism and CoC's.
Joseph knew because of knowledge that we don't have scripture for. If you believe Genesis 39:9 to be holy scripture then we have to see it as self evident this was known to be a basic law of God that was repeated in the 10 words our Father wrote in stone with His own finger... TWICE.
The other 9 words are exactly the same! All 10 are demonstrable prior to mt Sinai and after the cross.
@@Broadwaycoc
Out of context use of passages to justify why you have thrown away / abolished the law of Yahweh. (Col ch2, Eph ch2. Rom 7)
· Answer: God’s laws given to Moses and the nation of Israel were not given to other nations. Exodus 19:5-6; 20:1-2. The law of Moses was “added because of transgressions until the seed should come to whom the promise was made,” (Galatians 3:19-25). Because God swore that the priesthood would change, he had to change the law of Moses to keep that promise (Hebrews 7:12).
In this response you have proven my point. Exodus 19:5-6 context is COVENANT and PRIESTHOOD. N-O-T basic laws of God.
The greek for "My covenant" in verse 5 is bᵊrîṯ which in context of... God to man... means an alliance or divine ordinance with signs or pledges. The word for "law" in Exodus is tôrâ (Torah = instructions from God to man).
Covenants are NOT basic laws. Rather much like a marriage of man.. we have pre-existing principals upon which we make our "covenant". Yahweh did the exact same thing at Mt Sinai. His basic laws were in place prior to giving of the covenant.
Heb 3-9 context is NOT a removal of basic laws of God. It's context IS about a change in priesthood, the specific laws associated to that change, and a change of covenants.
Ironicly Heb 3:12-19 lays out a warning for these post cross brethren (likely Jewish believers in Messiah) to NOT do what Israel did in the wilderness. (Ezekiel 22:8 You have despised My holy things and profaned My sabbaths)
Ch 4:1-13 spells out how we are to be obedient and to rest in Christ. And specifically to keep the 7th day Sabbath! I mean brother... in verses 9 & 10 he plainly states the 7th day Sabbath that our Father kept and that we (post cross) are to keep.
And PLEASE notice Heb ch4 is about ******35yrs after the cross******
@@Broadwaycoc
Part A response:
If modern day CoC's were the exact same church mentioned in Acts.. they would keep the Sabbath.
· Answer: Where in Acts does it say that Christians kept the Sabbath? If you are talking about Acts 13 or Acts 18 when Paul entered the Synagogue to teach them about Christ, that had nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath. That was just the perfect opportunity to teach Christ to the Jews.
After Cross Sabbath keeping
- Acts 13:14-15 - went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets
- Acts 13:27 - the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath
- Acts 13:42-46 - In synagogue on Sabbath. And on the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 15:19-21 - Writings of Moses being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.
- Acts 16:13 - On Sabbath prayer was customarily made at the river.
- Acts 17:2 - Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.
- Acts 18:4 - Paul reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
- Matt 24:20 - pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath
- Isaiah 66:23 - And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord
Specifically Acts 15:21 is a prime example where dispensation theology is fundamentally wrong. James states before the council and before Paul and Barnabas in a de-facto way... and ***15 yrs after the cross*** that the new gentile converts would be in Church on the Sabbath and learning the basic laws of God.
I challenge you to answer this... why 15 yrs after the cross is the brother of Jesus confirming gentile converts are learning the laws of God and doing it in church and on every....... sabbath?
ok..so why did the church need to be restored again?
Dont you know, because you dont do it exactly like the COC, who I've never seen do foot washing. Lol
@@sparky4581 Show us one verse in the Bible where any apostle implemented foot washing as an ordinance to be performed in a worship assembly. Certainly at least Paul would have mentioned it in 1 Corinthians which is partially devoted to what happens "when you come together as a church." Jesus gave the example of foot washing to his apostles. His apostles under guidance of the Holy Spirit did not include it universally for Christians in their gatherings. Not everything you read, given in Scripture is for everyone. You will never understand what the Bible means until you first understand what it meant - specifically to those Christians living in the first century, because not one word of it was written directly to anyone outside of it's initial audience.
@@larrymcclain8874 I don't really get over concerned with if a person does foot washing of if they get communion every week or if they use grape juice or wine. It doesn't bother me if they use bread with yeast in it or not. It is just the arrogance of the coc that say they do it just like the 1st century church did and in the end by implication the only true church. Thus without direct statement pointing to the church the by way of salvation instead of Jesus. This is the mentality of all the restoration movement the JW's and the LDS. The Orthodox church and the Catholic do the same and say salvation is in the church. I was raised in and around the Coc from personal experience this can't be refuted, though it will be.
As for creeds they say we don't have and but say, speak where the bible speaks and silent where the bible is silent. By definition a creed. Point in case say one thing and do or teach another.
No foot washing is not an ordinance, it was an example, who knows if foot washing was practiced. The point was being humble and serving one another.
I can't remember the exact reason i mentioned the foot washing.
@@larrymcclain8874 foot washing is not normal.
It’s done once a year in the
Roman Catholic Church
When the laws of God are thrown in the trash can.. there is left a moral void.
Instead of getting back to the Bible they (mostly A.C.) just invented a new flavor of conservative but still protestant church.
Greetings, all the coC's salute you. Good stuff, amazing what we can learn from history. Thanks for taking the time to share this, it does seem like there's a grey, dark gap of time between about the 1st-2nd century til the reformation then the explosion of the restoration in the late 1700's. I've often wondered if the restoration would've happened when it did if M Luther hadn't set the ball in motion when he did... We can learn a Lot from history, the bible IS history. Is there really any better history book than the bible?!?!... Halley's bible handbook is a good 1 to keep handy to help fill some gaps between 1st century & the restoration. A lot of us probably don't really grasp the significance of the dead sea scrolls, something else I need to read up on. Right down the road from my home congregation is a tiny little church called Owen's chapel coC that still meets where David Lipscomb preached back in the day. The building still has 2 "separate & apart" front doors; 1 for the men, 1 for the women, no joke.
Both my folks are from KY, y'all keep up the good work of the church & gospel up there.
take care,
- Leeroy
Yeah there was an absolute explosion of Protestantism in the 1700-1800's. IMO it had more to do with the printing press and ability to travel and speak to differing groups.
@@truthnottradition7 It was an interesting time & people really need to read about it.
John Wycliffe was not "Church of Christ denomination"
John Wycliffe was an English scholastic philosopher, theologian, biblical translator, reformer, Catholic priest, and a seminary professor at the University of Oxford. He became an influential dissident within the Catholic priesthood during the 14th century and is considered an important predecessor to Protestantism.Wikipedia
I don't think Dan and Jed said he was in the "Church of Christ denomination." If anything they are trying to point out a vein of people/movements drawing the faithful back to Christ throughout history. And like they pointed out, in the end it is up to God to declare those who are righteous according to his judgement.
Wow I just caught you having another name Leshem,Joshua 19:47
Good 1.