INFJ Masculinity
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- In this video, I answer a viewer question about masculinity in the INFJ personality type.
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I think masculine qualities show up stronger with things such as: Defending. Supporting. Encouraging. Protecting. Accepting. Explaining. Providing. Valuing. Dignifying. Fairness. Appreciating. And so much more. A father gives his children soooo much psychological strength just by being a good example. Not weak, a push over. And not harsh.
Masculine, sure. Vulnerable , no. Being a weak, pushover as you say is vulnerable. But don’t think for a second that vulnerability means being weak. Are you allowed to be vulnerable? Does that make you weak? Are you the only one allowed to have emotions? If so, then you’re part of the problem.
Being an INFJ doesn't stop me to improve and become a stronger, wiser, masculine man ☝
Gender exists but gender roles are totally a cultural thing
However, sex differences do prominently exist. The main problem is we don't know which average differences are influenced by culture and which differences are innate and natural. People are formed through both nurture and nature, but a lot of modern belief tends to emphasize nurture over nature, whereas I personally believe that nature is much stronger than nurture.
@@alistair1418 you have to destroy all the conditioning that the world had put in your head,this is the only way to find your true self🔥
@Gianluca Merlo I've already found my true self. I personally can't wait for everyone to shake off the social conditioning that the differences between men and women is negligible. Not that I'm saying I don't believe in individuals smh
@@alistair1418 are you sure about that?everiday i think that i have found myself for misbeliefing me after 1 or 2 days
INFJ male here. I never equated my sensitive and emotional side to being less masculine. It always caught me « by surprise » so to speak when some acquaintances tried to help me understand my supposed truth. I always thought : Not yet again? these people really don’t get it. They don’t understand that my openness, which they misunderstand as vulnerability is the external layer of something scaringly self-assured. My gentle side is the very best of me. They do not want to abuse me and discover that none of their condescending BS is helpful.
I have a hard time “seeing” gender for INFJ. We are so fluid in emotional waters… unfortunately, that is labeled, feminine. Thats not true. Be who you are. Thanks Clay
I am the female form and I was in the male energy 🤣 so that's now balanced worldwide
Agreed.
Same. I have the same thoughts as you :)
Same here ....😢
That's such an INFJ answer. And I agree 100%.
It takes more masculinity to be vulnerable and seek intimacy than it does to stuff that shit down.
Couldn't agree more. From my perspective, it takes so much more strength and confidence to be willing to be emotionally available and vulnerable, then it does to repress those feelings. The very reason that people avoid intimacy, vulnerability, and expression is fear. Doesn't look like a picture of strength to me.
I'm so similar to Clay in many, many ways. I have a very tough, rugged, gritty, handsome look to me as a Man. I work in a male dominant industry. (Carpentry/Construction.) There is always a bewildered look on new faces I work with though. Deep down I think my looks don't match my gentle, soft, caring nature.
I show all these sides to me, which culturally are seen as feminine, but in my eyes require immense courage and strength to continue in.
My man is an INFJ and his more feminine and vulnerable side is what I love about him. I have a more masculine side but I have no problem in being emotionally vulnerable and available. I'm an ISFJ by the way. Thanks for your videos Clay :)
Doubt you're more masculine than feminine AS AN ISFJ, but you know yourself better. From my experience all isfjs are one of the most feminine women which it is what it is..great imo.
@Moondust Maybe. I think I've jumped my FE as well in my early 20s, but I've gotten to appreciate it for what it is.
Infj observes your comment as a trap and a lure for exploitation.
@@moondust1798 funny you would say that because I'm wondering if I'm not a jumper isfj-isfp. My man says i am more of a p type but I definitely got lead FE lol.
@@serban2139 me too! I think I got to disrespect my Fe a bit. And i've got masculine TI. Time to enjoy my fe a bit more lol
As an INFJ male who doesn’t like sports I know the struggles of making new man friends.
I feel ya. I am very lukewarm towards sports. I don't worry about making friends with sports nuts since they aren't my tribe, so to speak.
Same here. I was an above average athlete in my youth. Middle school 100yd dash record holder and the coaches wanted me to play every sport. I didn't want to waste my time. I focused on scholastics and music instead. The high school football team, and coach, taunted me. The pressure from that tribe was ridiculous. Of course no friendships with those guys, some of them I was friends with in elementary school...I was rejected.
@Jimmy Running Dog That is a painful experience for a young INFJ. I played highschool basketball for a couple of years, but quit due to a lack of interest. I had an athletic body, but not mind.
The reaction from my coach and team mates was a combination of "meh" and good riddance.
then make women friends 🤷♂️
@@connorbounds9397 lazy thinking. male friends fill a void that female friends cannot fill
As an INFJ male, I feel more androgynous than masculine or feminine since I have a balance of both.
This is a deep subject... here is my take. Masculinity and Femininity are balancing, opposite "cosmic" forces or energies that exist inside and outside of human expression. Masculine energy is active, creative or destructive, logical and objective, focused, strong or powerful, individualized, constrained, and harsh, among other descriptors. Feminine energy is reactive or receptive, preserving, emotional or subjective, ambiguous or chaotic, meek or submissive, collective, open, and gentle, among other descriptors. In their absolute, most abstract form, Masculinity and Femininity are beyond the realm of definition, comprising an undefinable whole or unity that requires a dualistic expression in a universe within which opposites are foundational to its creative structure (positive and negative, light and dark, on or off, up or down, etc.) Yet the masculine and feminine find myriad expressions or definitions within the natural and anthropological world. As an example, on the basis of its ascribed qualities a lightning bolt could be strongly characterized as definitionally masculine. Similarly, a fog bank could be characterized as definitionally feminine. This definitional framework can be applied almost endlessly.
Men and women are generalized human expressions of the masculine and feminine, respectively. But as with most things, no one person, natural phenomenon, or object can be absolutely characterized one way or the other. The tendency is for women to express more feminine qualities and for men to express more masculine qualities, although all humans have the capacity to express both energies, and people should strive to find balance between the two within themselves, in their relationships, and in society. That is to say, if you are dealing with someone who is irrationally aggressive and hostile, the proper response (in most cases!) would be to assume a "feminine" role and attempt to calmly deescalate, employing agreeableness, gentleness, and openness. If you are in a work environment where nothing is getting done, it may be appropriate to take on a more masculine role, employing creative initiative, authority, focus, strength, and power to meet the immediate demands.
It is my opinion that the West has become excessively feminine in its social expression, and more traditionally masculine people like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate are popping up as a reaction to the current state of our culture. A culture that has become hostile to natural masculine expression, among other things, is causing a great deal of confusion about what it means to be a man today (especially, within the complex context of what society has generally expected of men in the form of husbands, workers, fathers, etc.). I believe that for the most part INFJs have a better balance of masculine and feminine, while also having a more conscious, intuitive understanding of these energies that the typical man or woman expresses unconsciously. As such, this puts us at odds with the culture as far as being a man or woman is concerned. I imagine this is harder for men, since society continues to maintain strict expectations for what it means to be a man as compared to women, whose gender roles have evolved and expanded rapidly since the sexual revolution.
TLDR: Don't worry about masculinity or femininity and just try to be a good person.
👀👌🍷😌
Damn that’s insightful
Be careful allowing your boy to show his emotions. In the dating world, if a man cries in front of his women, she will lose interest at that very moment. A woman wants a man to be strong. As an INFJ, it's just something I picked up on.
Agreed. If a boy cries in front of other boys, as well as in front of girls, it can be the end of them socially. It's ok to feel emotions, not always ok to express them, for a man that is. Same applies to an expression of emotion with violence for boys; needs to be kept in-check unless it's the only option, self defense being the main example.
Who cares what women think.
Alternatively teach your boy strength and self discipline so he still knows his emotions but isn't weak or dependant and then that will be attractive
So true! women say they want a man who can be vulnerable but in the end they are just deceiving themselves.
I'm sure Clay is aware of how the dating world works. I'd be careful about advising other people against raising their children a certain way, especially something like advising them to tread lightly with nurturing emotional expression in their children for the sake of dating prospects. I'd argue that the modern dating world encouraging emotionally immature and out of touch men is a big issue with our modern Western definitions of masculinity, which seems to take the worst of the hyperfeminine and hypermasculine and combine it into an overall ineffective and amorphous ideal prone to collapse and failure. I agree with etherspin that nurturing universally virtuous qualities like strength of character and self-discipline would be far more attractive than adopting a socially-fashionable handicap like emotional callousness or shielding.
I have recently discovered I am a male INFJ and have to say everything you said, I understand. We are literally birds of the same feather. Thank you, I will be subscribing! :)
Hello clay, im first! Also Infj here😁👊 keep making videos about INFJ, Be safe always bro✌️🙂
As an INFJ I´d completelly agree in majority of things u´ve said. In my view it´s better for man to be more emotional.
You sound confident in this vid, so whatever's happening keep going, it's working for you.
I catched strong Fi Vibes shared and I highly appreciate IT because I know some infj can struggle with Sharing Fi, cause Shadow function, Not built, or Not aware.
Brotherly love clay keep on churning up this content my man it's not rambling it's important stuff and we love you for it man
I’m not a man so I don’t have the same experience but as an INFJ female, I struggle with gender roles. In many ways I feel comfortable with my body as a woman but how I interact with society is more quiet, analytical, direct, while being sensitive to people’s needs, but without being overly “friendly”. I feel like a very steady INFJ…although at one point I tried to be much more stereotypical feminine “soft” and “caring” all the time. But it definitely felt like a lie. I think society needs to let go of all gender roles and let people just be who they need to be in the world and appreciate everyone for who they are at their core.
So what if a man what's to be man and accept that gender roles
@@soa2444 I agree. It should be just as valid to want to accept the gender roles as to not
@soa2444 I think what the commenter is saying is... just be you and don't express or repress something based on whether it is considered "manly" or not. If you are living in a way that is authentic to you, then great! And you get to be the one to determine what is authentic to you or not.
I relate to this comment so much. I'm an INFJ female too and throughout my life I'm seen as gender-neutral by other people because of my nerdy hobbies, behaviour, speech pattern and taste in fashion. I am also comfortable with my identity as a woman, but I don't feel comfortable with "acting" feminine, such as wearing dresses and using girly handbags. I am not judged harshly (except at school) for my perceived "masculinity" but a man probably would be criticised if he had similarly "feminine" interests. I can't agree with your conclusion more. Gender roles need to be abolished.
@DrowningInTea From my perspective, I don't think it's so much that gender roles need to be abolished, if that ever can even happen. I think that more so we need to teach ourselves to be fully accepting and embracing of ourselves and also we all need to be more accepting of others.
To be honest, I feel like by saying that gender roles need to be abolished is asking others to not be themselves. Whether it's gender roles or other ideas that society collectively decides, most people are going to gravitate towards wanting to be part of the pack so that they feel accepted and I don't really have an issue with that. I'm not like that, but that is who I am. Rather than trying to redefine or undefine genders, I would rather just promote more acceptance and respect for people, even when you can't relate.
We can also use our emotional intelligence to interact and lead people, I think it works pretty well.
People (even tough guys) are more open when you talk to them softly and pay attention to what they feel. It's about pass through armor, but often we need a little bit of time to find the key.
We can also are soft and strict, sweetness or gentleness is not weakness .
i concur: fuck fake friends. be authentic and let real friendships grow organically. 😊
As an INFJ and the I've always thought of traits like stoicism, strength, responsibility, bravery, etc. not as male traits but as traits everyone should aspire to have. Same with the more traditionally femenine traits like compassion and sensitivity. Once I started learning that these traits can be grouped into "masculinity" and "femininity" through social media I found it frankly pointless. Especially considering how, having spent long times volunteering in foreign countries, I know how these ideals of masculinity and femininity are restricted only to some cultures, but entirely different or even opposite in others. We should all aspire to have the best traits of both masculinity and femininity, regardless of our sex.
Interesting perspective Clay. I think it all comes down to what the individual thinks to be true. Unfortunately, the majority of people are unaware of this, so they basically see their assumptions about the polarity between masculinity and femininity as absolute truth.
Therefore, I think, the more you grow and raise your consciousness the more alone you will be.
Men need to be strong. Society is falling apart because of weak men. As an INFJ-A Man, I am constantly improving myself. Going through hard times gives us experience. Experience can either be a lesson that helps you grow as a man, or the experience makes you a victim to circumstance and makes you weaker if you allow it. Not to say that you can't express the way something makes you feel. That's just basic communication.
I agree, but everybody need to be strong, women too.
@@AA-fm3ht just in different ways
Nah, its because of women trying to make men weak
I heard somewhere that INFJ females tend to be more androgynous and INFJ males more feminine. As an INFJ female I can relate to that but it may also have something to do with my auxiliary function being Ti instead of Fe and I also get mistyped as INTJ in certain tests as a result.
I understand U my dear. Same Here. More masculine enfp learned to Fi more, because Fi was my Demon and my Copilot Function was Te. Thinking seems more Ratio, cool, Not emotional, Not Feeling.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what you heard, but as an INFJ male.... one of the main themes in my life is that I always atleast strived to live authentically and be true to myself. I love being a man, but I rarely tried to act more macho or masculine so as a result, some of my more feminine qualities are able to be seen by people.
Truthfully, I think it is natural for men to have some "feminine" sides and women to have some "masculine" sides. It's just that most of us either consciously or unconsciously hide it out of fear. I assure you that there are plenty of straight macho men out there who are secretly watching Hallmark movies and singing along to Taylor Swift alone in their pickup trucks 😀
@plebes78 I agree, probably why infj women appear androgynous where neither of the gender are perhaps following set rules of what is considered conventionaly feminine or masculine.
@SeelenTaucher that would be quite a nice order in my opinion.
By the way... women love INFJ men (as partners and friends... and many men as well). Social stereotypes just don't correspond with what we really need as human beings in relationship with other people.
Says who?
@@ayymen I do. I have an INFJ son and girls love his gentle vibe. They can feel safe with him, he is emotionally available and still bring them a male presence. I have also couple of INFJ male friends and love them much.
@@akakikola Thanks for the answer. But if I took what my mom tells me seriously I'd think I'm the sexiest man alive 😂.
Sorry, but most people don't know what masculinity is and what it means to be a man.
Here are some very masculine attributes in meaning of being an alpha male:
- cares about the whole group
- will confront people or reveal their true face if needed
- future-orientated
- sees the bigger picture
- strong values (this one has to be trained, but it's said it's natural to INFJs)
- competitive (INFJs usually are very competitive, but only in things they care about)
- often the leader of the leaders
The issue i have, and long have had since entering MBTI in 2014 is that the INFJ space is filled with content creators only providing self-reflect material, as opposed to content that enable INFJs better perspectives of real world social dynamics. Every single video is about how we are this, that, and lonely.. Yes, i get it. But how about some real world examples from INFJs specifically, on how to navigate certain personalities in certain social settings, or how to read body languages. It just doesn't exist, which is quite unfortunate with the deep, analytical abilities us INFJs have.
Alpha male is a misnomer and a misconception. The guy who created the concept debunked it’s invalidity. Alpha male is nothing more than human cultural fantasy. Animal groups don’t work by a single leader, it’s a bunch of families that control different aspects in a wolf pack and they do indeed collaborate and disperse. The dynamic is handled by each creature.
Alpha male is cultural appropriation of the animal packs by silly humans.
@@Radahntheconqueror Point taken. Regardless, there are key elements that define and separate masculinity from femininity. We cannot simply limp it all together and not take accountability for our own distinct roles in society.
THANK YOU!!! As an INTJ, it drives me crazy that characteristics are genderized. Instead of calling them masculine and feminine, I call characteristics receptive or active. And both men and women can be a unique combo of both.
I'm a INTJ male, and I was thinking about that. I believe that those things should be evident. I never understand why the society teach like that, it's kinda sort forget about the paternity.
So "you, society" look for a goods mothers, but don't care a pen for an eficient father... That just haven't sense. A father what is unviable to confort, support, care, encourage and to do feel protected his childs Is like a waste of time.
All this things when come from a mother are good, but don't did the same work that when if come from a father.
And you can't do any of that if you can't conect in a sort of "emotional" level with your kids.
My fiancé and I discussed about this same topic before. I’m an ISTP and he’s an INFJ and labeled as such (ISTP masculine & INFJ feminine). Being a hopeless romantic, he got many heart breaks and for me I always had my guard up and never felt feminine (& family would call me out in it too). Our conclusion on this topic is that that our 1st & 2nd cognitive function seems to dictate whether we lend more masculine or feminine and the only reason reason why we don’t feel connected to our “gender role” is because most people don’t want to get out of their comfort zone and work on their inferior (3rd & 4th functions) - So having a balance of both sides is good and can help each person have better understanding of themselves and better understanding of your partner = healthier version of oneself
My husband is an ISFJ, and he's the "mother" to our daughter due to his warmth, tolerance and availability. Very nurturing.
I am an INFP, and I require good sense, responsibility, respect, and gratitude. I am more focused on molding her character and encouraging learning then validating her every thought and emotion (which change by the second).
However, I depend on my husband as a provider of many things. He's masculine in that he gives me stability- both financially and emotionally. He listens but doesn't bleed out emotionally like perhaps I do.
I am feminine in that I respect him, admire him, appreciate him, and look up to him. I am feminine in my body, too.
100% on this! Emotionally, I am the female of the relationship, and yet, when it comes to management of the day to day life, meeting our goals, etc. I still take the strong “traditional” masculine role.
A group/herd of cats is called a clowder. Just in case anyone wants to know.
In my "perfect world" women would activate more of the typically masculine traits and men would be able to tap into their feminine side more freely. Better mental health for all might be the result of such a shift. However, vive la difference; there's nothing like feeling fabulously feminine (or magnificently masculine).
loved this video. as another infj man, thank you so much
Good stuff, Clay! and hello to all the INFJ men! So Clay, I watched all 15 minutes plus of your video, so there's a few extra minutes of watch time, which is always nice. Here is my somewhat long-winded response, and don't worry, it's positive and thus, hopefully worth your time.
So I've been reading a book called "Iron John" by Robert Bly. I recommend it, especially for INFJ men who may have grown up with trauma in their childhood. I want to make it clear that his book DOES NOT HATE ON WOMEN OR MEN. Rather, it simply seeks to identify an "authentic masculinity", if that even exists.
Bly talks about how what constitutes a "real man" always seems to be changing ACCORDING TO SOCIETY. For example, he talks about all the different ways the 1950's Male was different from the 1960's male and so on, and states that this is due to the fact that society is always defining and redefining masculinity, and he believed that this should not define a man or stop a man from becoming his authentic self. Walking away from these societal definitions is probably a good idea for many men.
Bly goes on to say that males in childhood and into adolescence and then adulthood often (not always) go one of two ways, either they 1. shrink back and hide, become fearful and passive or 2. they become overly macho and APPEAR to "rise above" their childhood abandonment issues/trauma if they had any. He suggests that NEITHER of these is necessarily an authentic masculinity and concludes that authentic masculinity is neither passive or macho, but lies in the sphere of what he calls the "deep masculine".
And here it is.... the authentic man according to Bly, is a man who TAKES DECISIVE ACTION, NOT WITH PASSIVITY OR SAVAGERY... BUT WITH RESOLVE. I was blown away by this. And How's that for advice for men that have inferior/repressed extroverted sensing? Wow! And by the way, anyone can do this regardless of their gender.
INFJ men, let's choose to focus on self-improvement, personal excellence and achievement. Let's take decisive action towards the achievement of worthy goals. Let's stop beating ourselves up. Let's stop allowing society to define us as men. Let's stop shrinking back, and for those who may be prone to it, let's also stop trying to control and dominate others and/or circumstances and situations . Men, let's WORK ON OURSELVES. Decisive action, not with savagery or passivity, but with RESOLVE. By no means does this apply to all men or in all situations, but I wanted to share in case anyone is able to gain some value from it. Thanks for all you do, Clay! Take care.
Such a great video! Greetings from an INFJ from the Netherlands
Thank you Clay for this awesome video! I had a conversation with someone a couple years ago about how cultures decides what a woman or man should be. Not only the gender but also the roles. what a mother, father, or a child should be and how the relationship between each has to look like. People end up feeling bad about themselves or would be trying to show others a fake image
Love your content man. You are always spot on in my opinion. We have alot of similarities in the way we think.
love ur content !
always makes me think and wonder ❤
Another wonderful chat! I agree with you, and also suspect hormones can sometimes have some involvement too.
I think the fixation on gender and gender roles that we see is all about belonging, even in circles where gender is seemingly rejected. Since INFJs naturally tend to fall outside any sort of box, we're doomed from the get-go when it comes to fitting in to those spaces. I think most of us fall for those traps when we feel lonely and then have to face further loneliness once we're rejected or realize we don't belong, before we finally commit to just being ourselves. So in terms of INFJ men, I feel like it's important for us to define the world wholly by our own definitions. Meaning that we will never be able to live up to most of the ideals that are placed upon us, but what we can do is identify what is the most important to us and what we wish to pursue. For me, that's meant really figuring out what it means for me to be a man and being authentic to that, while not holding anyone else to it (minus those I wish to be close with).
Thanks for addressing this! As an INFJ who grew up without a father, this is something Ive had to figure out for myself. And us being who we are, Ive ended up looking to the outside world for the answer. Ive come to the same conclusions as you about societies approach to masculinity and femininity. So now im just out here. Sooo, yea, thanks for the video haha.
Really resonated with this video! This is off topic but I'd love for you to make some more business related content, I think you have a very interesting perspective as an INFJ when it comes to markets and ways of thinking about society in an economic sense
I love seeing your feminine side through your recent videos, it really shows. It really suits you way better than in your early videos. I can tell you are really being comfortable in your skin now, and that is the way we all should be. Plus, I have always strongly disliked macho men as I like vulnerability in human beings, regardless of their gender. There are times where we all are going to show different sides to ourselves as long as we are authentic. We all have a fighter-personality in ourselves as well as vulnerable one, and we should not be ashamed of neither one or limited to express both.. Thank you for sharing your stories with us, I hope you always be kind to yourself. You are a very courageous, inspiring, honest and intelligent human being, and I applaud you for all these qualities that you possess. Humanity has a lot to learn, I mean, I lot.
This feels Like Fi and Fe Combo. Feel the Growth If His Fi more, Sharing the Personal emotional Side as Well and I highly enjoy it. As Long as WE are aware and trying No built our Essence and Not trying to Push us into roles given by society. 💖🌍
I agree with the made a man theory. I wasn't taught like that. I express my emotions more than most men. Didn't make me any weaker, but it did make me stronger and have the attitude of "I don't give an F about what you think about me," towards others. I find it very difficult to have male friendships but very easy to have female ones. Now I believe we are just human. Doesn't matter about all the tests, scores, or psycho stuff. We are simply who we are.
Great video as always, Clay. I wanted to say that as a man I am considered to be a sensitive individual--however not feminine--I try not to express it very much or show it. I am open with how I see things or feel things and great at communicating it, although I struggled with that all my life. I have perfected how to be an effective communicator, but I try my very best to hide my emotions (if that makes any sense) I try to be the strong individual and carry every one else’s burdens at the expense of my own happiness or wants or needs, it’s very taxing and it drains me in so many ways because I rarely see anyone reciprocating when I feel like I need the support so I choose not to speak to anyone. I have noticed that I particularly find it difficult sharing my fears or anxieties with women because I sense they can pick up on those and are affected emotionally easier than men. So I try to keep certain things to just male acquaintances, yet there is a lot of callousness with most men.
I'm also an INFJ man, I don't hide my emotions, I can't, and I find it beautiful when I see a man cry or be sad, I love the contrast, and for me, it gives more inner strenght to show their vulnerability. It's something very pure, I don't see that as weakness or feminine, it's part of life, you can be strong and masculine and show your emotions.
however, I do think that evolutionary biology explains why on a bell curve there will be more outliers of different traits with different genders. For example, Jordan Peterson pointed out that extreme neuroticism is dominated by females but that it makes sense if you think about our hunter gatherer past as a male had to protect himself whereas a female had to protect herself and a helpless infant . . . I am a psych nurse so this topic fascinates me professionally.
I am that guy biologically female and was in the male energy without knowing it.
I was reading myself for you to drop the S bomb!
Thank you for acknowledging how influential the media is, meaning, movies, TV, social media. I grew up in the TV generation before VHS, DVD's, Netfilx, even before cable. With only 3 channels to watch, it was very limited the images to serve as role models. The 'Marlboro Man' was the icon of... whatever
"with human beings if you see a pack of men and a pack of women it is quite easy to identify which is which"
not anymore😂😭
You are proving only proving my point with this comment. Most of what makes a man or a woman is cultural signalling.
@@ClayArnall oh yeah sure, tbh i was just cracking a joke but sure
As a more sensitive man who grew up at odds with cultural norms for masculinity, I used to believe this mindset was the best way forward, but I've started to turn away from this given what I see around me. I think it's incredibly important to be authentic to your nature, and I greatly value my emotions, but if you do not follow society's standards for masculinity to some degree, you will be left behind. This is why we desperately need better examples of good masculinity in media, as people are being driven to the manosphere looking for what they need when doing what they're told doesn't work. 'Being yourself' these days seems to lead young men lacking guidance or good foundations to either struggle heavily, or quit early on due to fierce competition and lack of interest. Women are no longer really oppressed, they can join the workforce and delay childbirth indefinitely (which they rightly deserve), don't necessarily need a man anymore to survive, men are more thirsty than ever, so it's only natural collective standards have risen. Historically 80% of women and 40% of men have reproduced, marriage fixed this temporarily, but with social media and the progression of culture the cat's out of the bag now and numbers are starting to lower on both sides
Male loneliness on the rise (1 in 3 men in the west are virgins or haven't recently been in a relationship), dating apps revealing looks and status matter more now than ever before, high divorce rates (70-80% are initiated by women), crazy ideologues like Andrew Tate gaining meteoric traction, LGBTQ+ community (nothing wrong with this) and trans women numbers growing more rapidly in the past few years.. mass shootings.. These things all seem to point to confused men being pushed to extremes with no place to go. So we really do need role models for masculinity for the part of us that play fights as a child, shows more aggression and assertiveness, plays with trucks, the part of us predominantly influenced by testosterone.. Otherwise we're tossed into society lacking guidance for something incredibly important that we don't quite understand yet. We need role models that can embody healthy masculine traits, while still valuing emotions and vulnerability.
as an infj woman, i run away from men who are too masculine, rational, pushing through, rough and tough. I really appreciate a man with emotional maturity and depth and to be honest, many women dont have much of this ability either even if it should be easier for them. You are not more emotionally open simply because you are a woman, i know many who are completely in their minds, disconnected from their bodies. For the men out there fearing that they may have this feminine side, i would love to encourage you to continue being this way, some of us really love this in you and we wouldnt settle for less. Emotional depth comes in different forms, sometimes in men, sometimes in women, but one thing is clear, it is a very rare gift.
It is so refreshing to hear that you think society‘s gender roles are bull shit. It is 100% true. I am a trans male and INFJ, and gender is not only a spectrum, it is personal. It depends on who you are. Men can be „feminine“ and women can be „manly“ and vice versa. If you look into gender from an LGBTQ+ perspective, you will learn quite a bit on this topic, just fyi. 😊
INFJ male, from what I have experienced, we (or at least I) really need a partner who is willing to flow into the masculine role at times when I want to be truly authentic and vulnerable. That does not mean I or other INFJ males can’t embrace the masculine as well, but we should be able to flow towards the feminine occasionally and our partners understand that and takes the other side when we do. A book that really helped me was Way of the Superior Man by David Deida.
Before the rise of agriculture, when we were hunters and gatherers, there was less difference between the sexes. We were much more egalitarian in many ways When land became valuable and people started owning land inheritance became important. The need for men to know they are giving land to their offspring became important. This is when women became property and some of the biggest cultural and societal differences between men and women arose.
Funny my husband is an INFP and I an INFJ... I'm the more masculine in our relationship.
I love your conversation though... great points made especially cultural norms. PREACH IT!! ~ Thank you, Melanie
Thank you
Basically nature vs nurture. Personally I believe it's a mix of both.
The polarity of gender roles are intense these days. Energy doesn’t have a gender, either just positive or negative. We evoke energy and that’s what matters.
I can relate. Your a beautiful man .
Indeed, a beautiful Soul.
What if parts of your authentic self is lacking as measured against your ideals... ? It's an underlying assumption in your response, it seems, that what's authentic is always a good thing ( good in respect to your set of values), but this assumption is, or at least can, be untrue.
With this in regard, it has to be a dynamic between ideals and what's in your nature (authentic), and in those aspect that your authentic self or natural inclinations are contradictory to your ideals you shouldn't just rationalize it by saying that you are being your authentic self, but instead try and suppress those bad aspects.
Very important insight!!!
Yes!!! All this!
I like your take on that. I've been watching a lot of Tarot, lately, and these people offer Archetypal energies explanations a lot of times. I think that everyone has a balance of polar opposites and this balance shifts over time back and forth, or will swing more toward one side or the other given a phase or a mood. To me this is a very personal thing. Masculinity seems to be describing YANG energy... expansiveness, divisive or penetrating, faster, more volatility. Although, when a woman is scorned... there can be a lot of volatility; so rather than defining this logically; I think that one needs to FEEL it. Hardness versus softness, receptive versus creative.
I think of myself as an Alchemist, very much concerned with balance; but not just balance but a moving balance. The proper proportions of something given at the correct time for a given situation. But blanket statements and behaviors seem to be what's causing a lot of the problems in the world.
DM
I like flowers architecture guns tattoos deep psychological conversations things like yoga and exploring the greater meaning of life but Im also pretty disciplined I like tough love motivational speaking I think that the line between the yen and Yang for me is an automatic door and I think I'm only 1% into the journey of learning how to walk through it at will but.. I've always felt very feminine especially in sexual relationships things like that
The day I discovered this channel I was 3 months into a separation and I had began a weight loss journey and started body building I'm still emotionally who I always have been and I'm very in tune with that but I am becoming a physically speaking, monster and this is intentional.
Clay you're probably the most important influence on my personal development journey because your input was more of an emotional one and I think that kept all the physical coaching I've been taking in a perfect balance
LOVE YOU BRO LET THAT HEART SHINE LIKE A LIGHTHOUSE BEACON
I'm an INFJ ( Practicing Orthodox Muslim ) I agree with a lot of things you said and also disagree with some points. I believe that There's a feminine side in every single man. AND THERE SHOULD BE A FEMININE SIDE IN EVERY MAN. Otherwise, He'll be no different than an Animal. On the other hand, I also believe that because of the challenges and hardships that we face both (Men & Women) plays a big part in deciding the balance of their ( femininity & masculinity). When my father died, my mother had to go through things that made her more masculine, otherwise, she wouldn't have made it and I wouldn't have made it. The same goes for a man, the more you suffer the more masculine approach you will have to take in order to protect yourself. but that doesn't mean one becomes heartless. I believe there has to be a balance. A man needs to be emotionally intelligent, to look after his family. To look after himself, To not become resentful because of this word. Finally, the actual concept of being a Man in Islam is straightforward, To be in touch with our spiritual and emotional side while also striving to just be better. avoiding the opposite gender (women) and keeping your chastity safe until you get married. ( yes men also have chastity ). To not indulge in activities that can destroy your and others' life. To not sexualize women. To look after his family, emotionally, physically, mentally, and financially. But, How many of us actually do that? In the end, I believe that every man needs to have some femininity in his heart, It's crucial. A balance is what we should strive for.
As a sigma INFJ male, I simplify all aspects of life to a caveman’s lifestyle to figure things out about myself. Then cross reference it with modern day, and come to the conclusion, cavemen were real men. Modern men are domesticated, and weak, mentally/physically/spiritually/work ethic.
Most men don’t fear winter anymore. Lacking proper preparation for survival of life. Easy times create weak men, weak men create hard times.
I as a female mostly has masculine side and i am a infj and i think i would be happy to find a cute guy or girl
And i can't just agree more than saying you rock
I think you shouldn't change who you are. I think a INFJ man is very rare and unique.
A lot of times I thought to myself it's better being who I am then picking up a false sense of masculinity.
Good traits are universal and thusly available for anyone.
Also, some social expectation I find highly questionable as they undermine the peace keeping/relationships.
However, it makes sense to me to celebrate and enjoy a female/male difference to create attraction.
The fundamental qualities pushed into us are helpful in communication Like training a dog. You actually train yourself how to behave in order to get the dog to behave the way you like. Same with masculine polarity
I really liked your thoughts on this topic. Can you make a video about homsexuality and it's imapct on today's society
Most toxic masculinity I've seen/experienced has come from masculine women. Especially, narcissistic women. They're very masculine.
I watched a few of your videos... like the one about INFJs in a Guardian World. I call myself the Guardian; but was not in reference to the Myers Briggs typology. I subscribed after watching the video. I think the main theme or takeaway here, is to act as authentically as possible, given the cultural repercussions. Let's say that in a day and age where you needed to be this Hyper Masculine person, or else you and your family would suffer... you would adapt to that to protect yourself and your family; but I think an INFJ would be highly unhappy in that day and age and their true nature, despite their best intentions would eventually and continually leak out in so many ways. I think an INFJ, faced with that kind of strict narrow minded view would either travel somewhere else, or find SOME way to change the system if they could.
DM
Thank you for the beautiful embellishment. Me being an INFJ, i was always a tomboy.... know, I'm more in my feminine but people use labels all the time which I don't understand. I've always had that androgyny mindset about myself & it always compilated my relationships, where I would bur the lines between man & woman what should be & the person i was dating would always said there was something wrong with me or make me feel ashamed. would always try to tame something they can't handle. You should be completely yourself... Your fluid, like water.... BE WATER MY FRIEND
I have a brother who is a year younger than I am. I remember a time when we were very young (3-4 & 4-5?) and my brother was pulling legs off of a spider for fun, and I was quite distressed by it. We are still very, very different in our attitudes and behaviors.
Many children need to be taught. Some others seem to innately have a base level of empathy. In the end, I think that is what a real narcissist is - a non-empathetic child that never quite grew out of that state.
Bradley Cooper is an INFJ.
infjs are very in touch with their emotions and feelings. Yes, it is a personality thing. We are just very comfortable with feelings and emotions. Other personalities often want to change the subject. Tell you to forget about things. Come up with all kinds of lies. It's bizarre. Yet, we can deal with all kinds of emotion.
Well done for allowing emotions and expressions with your kids. Obviously later talking about what they feel is good. There are not enough INFJ parents..... urrrrhhh
Hey Clay, loved this one in particular. Especially as an ENFJ. I may actually make a response video on my channel quoting you. But yeah, thanks per usual for your thoughts.
I've thought about collecting my thoughts a little more and doing another video on the topic. Send me the link if you post!
@@ClayArnall For sure! Will do.
I’m an INFJ male, there is no mistaking my masculinity. I worked Juvenile and adult corrections for 12 years. I’m a tall large man with natural strength. I was alway the first to intervene during a physical conflict. I must say I have alway despise arguing with inmates/wards. I never did like my job, do to the stress and I always felt like an actor playing a roll, it gets old and it is exhausting. I present as a very stoic and mostly mild mannered person 95% of the time , followed by 5% of the most intense person that you might ever meet. The intensity was always stirring, I just maintained a poker face until it was needed. I hated every minute of the intensity, but in said employment that aggression was necessary to maintain a safe working environment. Being an INFJ made me aware of the vibe of the dorm I work in at all times, probably why I was always the first to physically intervene when the wards started fighting. I could see it coming.
Intuition on a 1000 for that job
Good video. I’m a male INFJ. It’s difficult to make deep friends for me. I despise it when ladies point out that they have a husband or boyfriend. I’m gay, so what do I care? Well, if I don’t want to come out to everyone in the South, it’s a problem. 🤷♂️🤦🏻♂️
How I've found myself dealing with this, part of me just doesn't give a shit, the other part does my emotional side. In short I am ok with being me...
I think it is 50 /50 Thad is the way it works !
Hey Clay do you think your girlfriend could do one on INFJ femininity next. 🙏🏾😇
Maybe. when I was younger I was not as masculine but I am now, maybe it was from the army I dont know. I had two women tell me I reminded them of ragnar lol. that was during the lockdowns though, and I was the only one in my town who the cops were scared to give a ticket to for not following mandates. some people thought of me as the leader of the local resistance lol but I would rather have people lead themselves so I just showed up and protected people from the police.
Clay I'm wondering if you know much about the tendency for showing vulnerability as a man leading to women becoming unattracted to them. There is a lot of data on it and I know if you're interested in talking about this you'll find it
"Drying up" As it is crudely described
What is Emotional Integrity? NF Connections. NF can be deep, If people allow to Share emotional depth. Love that feminine Qualities in Humans much. And NF is more about metaphysic, Not too much about Sensory World. Some might say "Spiritual World". Sure I also enjoy Sharing physical actions Like hiking together, cooking, Cinema, whatever, but also would Love to Share more emotional and Spiritual depth, but Not everyone can do IT right from start. I wanted to learn get rid of the Te Society Roles and Behaviors. Enfp WHO used NeTe instead of Fi, because Fi was my demon for Long. Now I enjoy Sharing vulnerability with a View trusted people, but was Not easy way to crack the bricks. The inner Growth Levels and awareness Levels can be different at Times. And with different Connection Styles, IT depends. I learned about mbti and understood different Qualities and Powers of people. So I learned to appreciate the T types for their bold honest Ratio, Same for Sensors, I appreciate the "Not much thinking, simply doing" Style, while I also seek holistic deep Spiritual emotional Connection with NF. Everything and Everyone bring's their own Powers to complete the circle of Life. Thanks much for Sharing, ITS wonderful.
Very interesting.
I've not felt that my emotionality(prob not a word)
Was feminine. I reckoned it was a more whole/wholesome manifestation of true masculinity.
But I'm definitely emotional.
And my hair is past my shoulders. But my beard is 3"(ps also alot of grey)
ie I'm typically masculine and also will cry in front of close ones.
Interesting. 😎
As an INFJ man I generally wear the skirt in the relationships I've had 🤣I think it is courageous and strong (traditionally masculine traits you could say) to express your sensitive and emotional side (traditionally feminine traits you could say) where appropriate. So it's masculine being feminine in a round about way. So long as you are being true to who you are as a man with confidence.
You’re basically a beta male. Nothing strong about that, but masculine women like it. So… take care.
Do you know why a child became an infj? I have noticed that infjs share some patterns, like being an only child, speeding too much time alone growing up, emotionally unavailable parents etc.
The 4 INFJs I have in my life are not only children. I also am not, as i have a sister. I do notice though that most INFJs seem to have trauma of some kind.
I have a psychosis about aliens creating/making us and being evil , what would you think ? what are your thoughts ? etc...
You definitely need a part 2 to this. As an INFJ, i am sure you have your finger on the pulse of the current redpill movement, Andrew Tate, Boss B!tch, hypergamy, and leveling up concepts that's currently occurring. The idea of forgetting what people think is half the battle. The other half is explaining to men how to lead a relationship by where the role of a man is understood in order to prevent an imbalance. Many men today are seeking the advice of online redpill gurus because there is a lack of this teaching by their fathers. Therefore, i would be careful in not dismissing the current state of affairs. HOWEVER, this perspective must be provided by a man with extensive experience as playing the part of the masculine in the relationship, not the feminine. Perspective of reference is crucial.
The whole thing honestly makes me pretty sad. I think a lot of adults these days are neglected children trying to navigate a world they don't understand. For men, there's this constant narrative that you need to be useful and powerful and chosen and when we don't feel that, we feel like we've failed as men. There's also this disconnect from reality where overemphasized masculinity, whether that's men in porn or men in fiction or male influencers, replaces healthy masculinity which only further cements those feelings of failure. And there are so many people out there that are all too eager to manipulate those of us that are lost for a quick buck or for their own self-gratification. I think the only way to navigate that minefield is to disregard it entirely and say, I'm a man and I'm going to be a man that I respect. Shed all expectations and live authentically.
@@SDjilliaRE I wholeheartedly agree with you! I will not add a but, or caveat to your well, though out response. I will just say that we can't do it ourselves and as you said, instead of receiving the proper, balanced guidance, we have these toxic gurus taking advantage of men who do not know when to separate themselves from these hustlers.
@@HALFAMAZINGTV Definitely. It's a hard journey for all of us.
I don't think there is nothing wrong with ppl being I touch with femine side or Masculine sides if it works. It's no one's business. Comes down to respect an loyalty
01:38 🤔 Some INFJ men might relate more to female perspectives in relationships, possibly due to emotional closeness demands.
03:14 🚹🚺 Cultural norms strongly dictate gender roles, influencing how men and women express themselves and behave.
05:31 🧠 Much of what we perceive as masculine or feminine traits is culturally constructed rather than inherent.
07:34 🧠🤔 The extent to which gender differences are learned or innate remains uncertain.
10:48 🔄 Toxic masculinity often stems from societal expectations that discourage emotional vulnerability in men.
12:39 🤷♂ Being authentic to oneself is more important than conforming to societal expectations of masculinity.
Lots of good points here, but I think that the cultural ideas of men that are "pounded in" to people actually have a basis in evolutionary psychology, since men have been the ones throwing themselves into wars and stuff, while women typically stayed home to feed the babies. Just part of reality. However, I do think that culture has taken those things to a wild, toxic extreme, where men are expected to drive big trucks, not listen to jazz music, speak with rough and low voices, and get buzz haircuts. That shit is all fake as hell.
What would I not give to have an INFJ man in my life
Idk, I think the cat analogy is incorrect. Most of the cats you’ve encountered have been castrated or spayed. You can definitely distinguish behavior and structure between Toms and queens.
i was just thinking about this recently. Nearly half of people are istj or isfj.... the firstborns... and everybody else has different ideas, which the SJs can't or won't understand. You are on my wavelength, close to unlocking some interesting stuff. ;-) Please don't tell me you are the firstborn.. You say you find it hard to find a male friend! I find it hard to find a female friend! It's real. It's so difficult. Why can't we have friends of the opposite gender, just friends. There is something very wrong with this culture.
I'll be honest and say I struggle so much with this as a gay INFJ male. I wonder at times where some of my more natural "feminine" qualities come from. Is it from actually being an INFJ? Is it because I am gay and there is this stereotype of gay men being feminine. But of course there are gay men who aren't. Which I'd say I am. But then am I suppressing these feminine qualities to compensate for being a gay man? Or just a man in general? My head spins all night when I get on this topic. Needless to say I try not to overthink it and just be who I feel I truly am. 😅
Same.
Yes, beautifully said
The personality differences between the sexes have actually already been found. It’s true that we’re far more alike than different, but to say all “gender roles” are culturally conditioned is factually false.
Look up the study, “Why can't a man be more like a woman? Sex differences in Big Five personality traits across 55 cultures.” by DP Schmitt et al.