Phono cartridge stylus types: In search of the perfect groove tracker
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2021
- There are many types of phono cartridges and their various parts can change considerably from model to model. The diamond tip, or stylus, that is responsable of picking up the music from the grooves, is one of the most important and its technology is constantly evolving from the middle of the past century up to today. Discover with us the main shapes and their sonic characteristics.
ERRATA CORRIGE: As some have pointed out, the FM carrier in the JVC CD-4 system (shibata stylus) is responsable to separate the 4 channels, which are together, not the reproduce the rear channels as I stated in the video.
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ERRATA CORRIGE: As some have pointed out, the FM carrier in the JVC CD-4 system (shibata stylus) is responsable to separate the 4 channels, which are together, not the reproduce the rear channels as I stated in the video.
The first major symptom you hear when a Microline wears out is a reduction in volume. You'll still get great tracking and reading of frequency range - just lower dB.
I have a number of different types. The stylus type is only one element of a complex electromechanical system. The moving Mass and compliance of the cartridge and the performance of the tonearm matter a lot.polyvinylchloride is a relatively soft material that can easily be permanently deformed by exceeding its elastic limit. Low dynamic mass and high compliance reduce record wear by requiring lower tracking force to stay in the groove. A high contact area reduces stress on the plastic. A dynamically balanced tonearm with very low friction bearings such as jewels also reduces required tracking force. The best solution is the optimized moving magnet design. Another advantage it has is high output compared to the higher mass lower compliance low output moving coil design. The frequency response of the cartridge can be easily manipulated through equalization. Bright sounding cartridges like Ortophon at least decades ago had a poorly damped resonance at around 15 khz. They compensated for the high end rolloff of many speakers. If you undertrack a cartridge it will lose contact with the groove only to come crashing down. Channel separation is also important. Compared to digital sources harmonic distortion of records is high but usually below the threshold of audibility.
Thank you Guido. Your discussion was VERY helpful for me because I had been out of the vinyl world for a long time. Back in my day the elliptical stylus was the most attainable. I remember when the short lived quadraphonic CD-4 format came out that you needed a special diamond to maximize the 4-channel effect but I did not know this was called Shibata. So right now I have a fairly low -end Technics P-mount TT that my brother-in-law gave me. I immediately upgraded to an AT -style cartridge with a hyper-elliptical nude diamond and It sounds amazing! For my humble little system it is a major upgrade. I hope in future you will dive deeper into this topic. Again thanks because you have guided and inspired me on my analog journey and I am grateful.
I'm back! During my short hiatus with SACD and abandoning Analog, I have come back to vinyl and I'm not changing!
I've become too obsessed with being too analytical with my so-called listening sessions and forgot how to enjoy music!
Welcome back!!!!
Excellent video as usual, Guido!!
I have a Jico SAS and am very happy with the results
So intesting! Thank you very much!
Best summary I have ever seen on stylus types and advantages/disadvantages of each. Great work and many thanks
Great job! Very detailed and very good info. Ya gotta love you tube. You got a new sub.
Thank you. Very helpful.
Excellent!
Fantastic video .
I just bought a vm540ml and it is a wonderful cartridge. I would like to get the same sound quality for my DJ carts but, until now , I can't find any equivalent product, unfortunately. For me, the best improvements in sound quality regards sibilance... with the AT cartridge there is not any sibilance left, it's very pleasant.
Thank you for your videos.
Interesting! Thanks!
I'm using the same cartridge and love it. To me its better than the 2M blue which I also own.
That is the one that caught my attention as I mention the vintage Line Contact AT that I've been using for many years. This one with the microline stylus SOUNDS like it would be a good and similar sounding choice. That is why I wanted to ask our very knowledgeable host what he thought
I hear you, Sir….all DJ cartridges are bland-sounding conical styli carts (save for a few releases by Ortofon) made to withstand back-cueing…..I recommend the Shure M44-G as I find it is still the best if the lot (buy new styli from Jico). However, I am waiting for someone to finally buy a pair of Decca DJ carts to try out, but the price seems unrealistic.
I'm having terrible trouble with inner groove distortion. I'm hearing great things about the 540. Sibilance is terrible in my denon cart. Sounds like the 540 is working well for you and works well to reduce the Sibilance?
Hi Guido. Great overview. Especially on the lifetime of the different stylus shapes. As a big fan of the DL103. There are some things I look different at when it concerns the conical shape. Enjoyed the video. Not easy to summarize all facts. Cheers. /Paul
In fact! It's not only a matter of stylus as I said in the end and the Denon is a clear example of that! :-)
The best thing I did for Vinyl playback was to invest in an expensive cartridge. I went from a OM-10 to a Sumiko Olympia to a Soundsmith Zephyr MKIII. The last jump was a huge improvement in sound reproduction. I also upgraded the TT with the Soundsmith, but the cartridge was the real winner.
Good job!
I can only agree with Rick. I have a modest TT, the Denon DP-47f and I upgraded from the Denon DL-110 to a Soundsmith Zephyr MKIII. Just for reference, the Zephyr MKIII costs 3x as much as the rest of the TT... maybe not the best way to go :-). The difference was nothing short of astounding. I'm not talking about the usual audiophile, squint with both ears to hear a small difference if you stand on your left foot and tilt your head 2.65°, I'm talking about transistor radio to stereo hifi-system difference.
I have been saying this not only in this video but since the beginning of the channel, the cart along with the phono preamp is the heart of the vinyl system reproduction!
Been thinking about getting that soundsmith Zephyr but I was not sure it would be that much better than my ortofon 2m black but now you got me thinking different.
@@Drivehead103 While the Ortofon 2M Black is a good cartridge stepping up the the Zephyr MK III will be a very nice improvement. Additionally, Soundsmith will rebuild the cartridge to new for 20% of the original cost of the cartridge.
Thanks a lot for the good informations. You are always interesting to listen to....
Thank you so much!
Very enjoyable video! I have a "nude" elliptical, and I'm pretty happy with it! Although if your record's aren't cleaned properly , it can give you distortion at volume peaks!
Thx! Nice!
Thanks very interesting
I love Shiba Inu and the Shibata ! Good Japanese stuff.
God explanied 😍👍👍
@7:25 - it's actually very common again - Audio Technica changed the AT150MLX line contact to a shibata recently.
Great information sir 👍👍👍👍
Thanks!
I got an Audio Technica AT-440MLb because I was getting so annoyed with inner groove distortion on my Conical and Elliptical carts. The problem has now gone, I won't look back from a MicroLine. My one is no longer available but the replacement model is VM540ML
Good job!
540ml is great
Yep, the VM540ML is great. But the much cheaper MicroLine-equipped VM95ML is even better! Treble lift tamed, midrange doesn't sound thin & all "hollowed out" like on the 540.
Everything is the same as the 540ML except for the curves of the body & a different cantilever.
Clearly the cantilever is the "magic sauce" here.
$100 less than the VM540ML @ just $150USD!
@@joerosen5464 I might have to try one of those. I am also interested in the 95sh too
Like the new video for your channel introduction!
Thx!
Oh yes! I meant to mention that too. *VERY* sharp intro now (and transitions) Lovely! 👍
Thanks. Could you possibly cover the different suspensions? Also, how cleaning fluids can affect suspensions.
I had opportunity to compare with the same turntable three types - spherical, elliptyc and line contact All of them the same producer. My conclusion is that results depend mainly on wear of LP. If LP is noticeably wear the spherical will show LP's limits in the highest tones - but do not sound dull - only some details are more hidden , the elliptic will read them acompanied of existing eventual distortions making sound more crisp but sounds full and beautifull and line contact type reads also all but with less THD
But as for me that impressions are not so easy to spot and need trained ear. I did not feel differences when playing LP which is "like new". Other advantage of line contact is that it uses samllest tracking force - instead 1,3- 1,5 uses 1,0g and never skipped raw. The problem it makes is that each portion of dust will stay with needle and needs to be cleaned because it is enough to lift pickup.
My My Sonic Labs cartridges have the one called "semi-line contact" stylus which is quite well received here in Japan.
That's a nice way for their Marketing Department to say: "Hyperelliptical"!🤣
My Sonus Blue Gold stylus had a propriety Pathimax custom Shibabta tip. Very high compliance for light low mass tone arms with a 1.5 tracking force . 20-45K freq range very detailed sound.
Nice!
I had one of these as well, early on in my HiFi travels. Didn't realise that it had a Shibata stylus, but it makes a bit of sense in hindsight. It had above-average detail, certainly a bit better than a Shure M95ED.
But definitely not in the same league as my B&O MMC20CL, which had the "unfair" advantage of a sapphire cantilever on top of a "Contact Line" (B&O's name for their proprietary Line Contact shape🙄).
I remember that the Blue had absolutely INSANE compliance; that being the peak of the era of the race to minimise tonearm effective mass & stylus VTF to virtually nil, thus requiring cartridges with insanely high compliances. Which the Blue had!
Rated at about 50cu, when now a value of 20cu is a bit on the higher side of typical.
That Sonus sure could track, though!
Sweet, relatively neutral, with very slightly wimpy bass performance & an audible but not-at-all annoying bit of treble prominence. Fond memories!😊
How did youtube know my stylus just broke? Great discussion, thank you! I'm looking at a Shibata replacement for my AT440ML cartridge that lasted 20 years.
I obviously don’t have much experience with records, so what I’m about to say could be ignorant heresy. I cannot, see from a technical aspect how records can come close to a good digital source and a descent dac. When you see how digital music works and it’s drawbacks, I decided to look into an all analog system. But good lord, there’s setting up, maintenance, wear items, expense, and it’s own significant drawbacks in quality. To me, it seems fun, but it’s kinda like painting a picture, when you can just grab a camera. Keep in mind, I could have bought speakers, but I built the speakers I’m using, so I get it. But again, I’ve never heard a truly good record system, so there’s that. I want to, but I’m the only one that I know of that gets into this stuff.
I like your honest straightforward comment. I perfectly understand and see your point. Unfortunately I agree on the fact that analog does need a little investment if compared to a good pair of headphones and a smartphone. BUT when you discover how intimate, soulful, vibrant and engaging analog media can sound, you simply can’t look back. Obviously this is also due to the terrible mastering that most digital media has.
What I've been told, ML styli last 1000 hours aprox., the longest lasting type followed by the shibata (800hr), Conical (500grs), and elliptical (300hr).
Acording to Audio Technica chart of styli. 🤔
I am no going to add anything to what I said in the other comments and video but I just want to highlight that what Audio Technica states is NOT a standard, it's their own specs
Awesome, just awesome. Any chance you can continue this and talk about cantilever properties (Boron verses blah blah blah)? great video and I'm looking for a MC cart for my Linn and need more info. thanks again
Yes, good idea!
It's a interesting point about the micro-line stylus wearing faster having a smaller contact surface... for example when it comes to tape heads it can be counterintuitive, as the more wear a tape head has, the wider the contact surface with the tape, and therefore more friction and faster wear. So a tape head wears out faster the more wear it has.
Micro-Line stylii actually have by far the longest rated life of any of the profiles. The nature of the cut is such that it's contact patch doesn't expand with wear, as do other types.
Note that Audio-Technica rates their ML stylii at an astonishing 1000hrs., but only 500hrs. for their Special Line Contact (SLC), Shibata, & Elliptical profile types.
Spherical/Conical types they rate at just 300hrs.
🤓Do your math: it's actually cheaper to dig deeper into your wallet (as well as the record groove😏) for the extra initial tariff for a Micro-Linear or its equivalents (such as JICO's SAS, Audio-Technica's MicroLine, Ortofon's Replicant 100, Shure's Micro-Ridge, or Soundsmith's OCL) than to buy an Elliptical-tipped cartridge!🤔
The difference in running cost between the Line-contact & Shibata stylii vs. the Micro-Linear one can be QUITE dramatic:
The price differential is not only very small, in Audio-Technica's case they actually charge MORE for their inferior (sonically as well, IMPE) Shibata & "Special" Line-contact cartridges in their 3 different MM lines (VM-95, VM-500, & VM740 series)!🤪
Only the spherical stylus has a lower actual operating cost: even 3 spherical stylii cost less than one Micro-Linear one.
But the difference is truly NOT worth it in terms of the vastly inferior sonic quality & tracing ability.
Here's a bit more math🤓:
I've got about 4000 LP's. I can only listen to one stylus at a time. The stylus is replaceable. Many of my records are NOT.🫣
What's the cost of ruined records & a much 💩ier listening experience on top of that? 🤔🧐
Great video Guido! I was wondering if you’d talk about optical styli, that would be great as well
It's a good topic. I will pick that up in the future!
@@anadialog thanks! I had not been following much the channel recently but I think the last topics have been great, feels like the early ones. Grazie, abbraccio de un amico mezzo brasiliano e mezzo americanno, allora anche di origine italiana
Grazie!!
Great video !!!! And info update on different stylus shapes and information video by Peter Letterman....I do not have any of his cartridges....I have a a Shure v15 v, Denon 110 and Denon 103 which has been retip with a nude elliptical stylus....Im looking for a fine line contact....now....may a audio technica their higher line range...looking forward to hear which cartridge you found that was a gem !!!!....Eddie from New York.....😎🏙🗽☕☕☕☕🎵🎶🎵🎶
You talked about mass earlier. So as you advanced in design, the stylus tried to follow the grooves better AND also had less mass. I always used to tell people that the major difference between a needle and a stylus was about $ 30.00. haha
Indeed, several styli are miniaturistic!
On a CD4 quadraphonic recording the ultra-high frequency carrier has the difference not the rear channel on it The rear channel is in both front left and right channels,what the carrier does seperates the front from the rear channel on both left and right
Thank you for pointing that out. I will put a clarification on this!
Very informative and well done video! Im very happy with a Van Den Hul MC One special cartridge the VDH stylus has performed exceptionally well!
Thx!
@13:45 - when you said the 'alchemy ' of the cartridge.. alchemy usually suggests transformation / transmutation - are you referring to the basic idea of putting things together?
The spherical is the best if You using second hand records , less problem easy to listening well setup i use m44-7 by Shure
Well done sir! 👍 for many years I have been using what used to be Audio Technica's Flagship model (about 35 years ago 😊) the Vintage Flagship Vector Aligned Linear Contact Audio Technica DR500LC, is its fancy name. It is a Line Contact stylus and I've always been impressed with the detail it reveals even now. At the time, it was even considered very clinical, but pairing with my overall system since it is comprised of tall completely open baffle dipole multi-driver line arrays, which probably is a bit laid back, this cartridge compliments it I think very well the vintage (Read: Ancient!) Revolver table I have is also considered a little laid back, so I think there is a decent synergy there.
If I may ask please your opinion, if you don't mind, since I've had this one so long if I ever wish to say try another TT where I can more easily install cartridges (the Lynn Basik tonearm is very proprietary and I'm afraid to touch it!) from what I've read, it SOUNDS like the *AT vm540ml* might be a comparable sound, since it is also considered pretty detailed (I see the fellow below also has that one) Do you think that this would be a good cartridge to consider since I have been used to the very detailed sound of the AT Line Contact all these years? I know people really like the Ortofon's, but just the fact that they are 'Elliptical' kind of discourages me because I can't see how they would be as detailed.
May I please ask your thoughts concerning this and perhaps if you think I should check out any other cartridges that would be comparable in sound and price?
Thank you kindly, and a most excellent explanation as usual! 😁
I set up, repair, & occasionally do modifications to turntables for a High End Audio store. The store sells several brands, with models recommended on my say-so as I have alot more skill & experience & product knowledge (not to mention better ears, by his own admission. And he's no tin ear). The store carries Audio-Technica, Dynavector, Grado, Goldring, Nagaoka, & Ortofon. Neither of us have much time for MC cartridges; we both find them highly overrated, overpriced, & then there's the further & otherwise needless cost to purchase a good step-up transformer and/or spend alot more money on the phono stage itself. And, like you, I also own a Linn Basik (which I not entirely affectionately nickname "Bay-SUCK") which I use along with a far more expensive Linn Ittok ("S***ok, Sucks c***...) on my 1st generation Michell Gyrodec amongst several other tables in my vintage collection (it's currently on one of my 2 CJ Walker CJ-55's).
I don't understand why you consider the Basik so hard to install & set up cartridges on. The Basik is neither better nor worse in this respect than any other captive-bearing design of arm that has a "fixed" headshell. May I presume that is your issue with it? The worst thing about working with such a "continuous" armtube tonearm is that it's HIGHLY preferable that you remove it from the turntable to both initially install & do your final "torquing in" of the cartridge. In the Basik's case, it's hardly a worry since Ito (the Japanese company that makes Linn's tonearms) has LOUSY machining of either or both their bearing races & the ball bearings themselves (ABEC 7 they ain't!). I found, on average, that only about 1 in 3 Basiks have an "acceptable" amount of bearing friction (~>40mg, which I consider VERY generous. >20mg is the minimum for an excellent tonearm). I had to try several before I found one that didn't actually skip at various points along the record groove when running low VTF (≈1.5g), high compliance (
As far as cartridges to recommend (AFTER you've read my other reply concerning your tonearm), as I'd said, the store I work with is a dealer for at least a half-dozen brands. Audio-Technica, Dynavector, Grado, Goldring, Nagaoka, & Ortofon. Dynavector only makes MC's, so I'd rule them out completely. Their one high output model (so therefore compatible with MM phono stages) is the 10X5. Ignore the positive reviews. It doesn't deserve any!
Grado is nice, I recommended alot Green 2's (haven't worked with the "3" version yet; Kung Flu & all that!🏌️). Second from bottom of the range, which is the Black for about $20 less. Grado has come a löÖÖöng way from the total 💩 they made in the 70's, although they LÖÖK exactly identical. The mid 1960's tooling that makes the casework with the stupid half-shielded body (causing hummmm problems in turntables that don't have metal platters to act as a shield, like Rega's stupid 💩!), & probably most of the innards as well, hasn't been updated since then. As noted above, lord knows it should be! But enough (just!) things have been improved that I can recommend the Green. I wouldn't waste any more money on ANY of their cartridges above this model, as they're really all the exact same cartridge!!! But, you can get that exact same thing in all-wooden body (yummy yummy SEVERELY HUMMY!🙄), and/or with more powerful magnets (which, aside from barely noticeable increased output, DOES NOTHING! 🏌️). It appears that Grado uses only elliptical stylii, perhaps their rather primitive "Twin Tip" biradial (figure 8 shaped) with its barely 0.4x0.7mil & usually bonded construction as befits cheap cartridges under $75USD. I have absolutely scoured their literature & website & cannot find ANY reference to what stylus type/dimensions is used on ANY of the models in the lower 2 of the 3 series (the "Lineage" models use either MicroRidge or a fancy line contact of some sort. But at the $6000USD entry price & low output/MC level generators, who the hell cares???😘). I recommend the Green as being good value for its price of ≈$90USD. That said, it really only offers parity with offerings from Ortofon OM5E/10 & Audio-Technica's VM95E; both of whose products, especially A-T's, are streets ahead of Grado's haphazard QC). Cheap systems usually beg for as much fattening of their tone as you can give them, preferably without adding fuzzy distortion or cliff-walling the treble response to do it! But if you like the sound of an old A-T Line Contact or Shibata MM, then you should really like the highly-rated VM540ML. A cartridge whose sound I know well. A sound I respect more than I love... 🤔
Both the VM500 & 700 series, the higher 2 of A-T's 3 MM series, use what löÖök to me exactly like the one fitted to all the overbright & "pinched midrange" 70's 80's thin-sounding MM models. Only its incredible tracking ability, with the accompanying lack of distortion (which means less listening fatigue) & SOTA retrieval of low-level detail, save it from sounding rather..."Digital Ready"😬. So I've saved the best for last: for 2/3rds the price of the 540ML, you can get the same stylus in an absolutely equivalent plastic body as the 500 series all have. This model, the VM95ML, is a $150USD take on all comers GIANT KILLER! 😀 It has a rather different cantilever than the one on the higher series: Noticeably fatter, & with a rough exterior finish that suggests anodising or at least, some sort of controlled oxidation. This might even give the cantilever ceramic-like rigidity & inertness; after all, aluminium oxide is the basis for at least one type of ceramic material...The upshot of this different cantilever is that the VM95 series, including the remarkable $60 VM95E that replaced the AT95E (& btw, I've compared these 2 as well. The VM95E is a clearly audible improvement to what was already the Giant-Killer of entry-level carts!), doesn't have anywhere near the same degree of MC-type "rocket ship" treble lift. A db or 2 is left, as opposed to the 5+db of lift @ 10kHz the 540ML suffers from! Best of all, the midrange no longer sounds hollowed out like it does with the 540ML. 😘 Finally! The very first A-T MM cartridge I can love (so I bought 3 for myself!😀)! Icing on the cake: Tracking ability & low-level detail ability is EXACTLY as good as the 540ML. And if anything, the fuller tone gives a slightly better sense of dynamics (not that the 540ML is noticeably lacking in this regard).
The 2g rated VTF (I find 2.1-2.2g optimal) is high enough to help out with the 💩y Basik bearings, & the compliance is low enough to ensure an ideal match with tonearms in the 8-15g effective mass range. Oh, & either ML cartridge SMOKES the Ortofon 2M Blue. Which is nothing more than a much less expensive OM10 dressed up in designer clothing (if you dare dismantle a 2M, & I have, the Generator body is EXACTLY the same!🤔 You can prove this to yourself without sacrificing a body by putting either an OM stylus in a 2M body, or truly hilarious, a 2M stylus on an OM body...& hear it work PERFECTLY!!! 🙄) Even the flagship $755USD (ripoff alert!) 2M Black (the stillborn OM40!?🤔) is a little less detailed & ever so slightly inferior with regards to tracking, as its Shibata stylus is slightly inferior to the MicroRidge type. I proved this to myself by also buying the $50 more expensive VM95SH, the top of the VM95 series that has a Shibata stylus on it as the ONLY difference between it & the 95ML. As I suspected, it was close; but the ML was just that little bit cleaner, tighter, more detailed, a slightly more confident tracker, & just plain a bit less fuzzy. Which the VM95SH isn't, really. Only in direct comparison will you notice...But for some stupid Audio-Technica reason that only they understand, A-T seems to think that you should pay more for the audibly inferior Shibata & "Special Line Contact" (VM740SLC) stylii. But hey! Their stupid is your gain!😘
Finally, a brief comment about Nagaoka: Ignore them & they'll go away! Nothing to see here, except eye-watering prices that make Ortofon's greedy cynicism löÖök rather tame. And having owned several of the better ones in the past, I can confidently opine that Nagaoka wasn't much cop in the 80's either. Now they want $900 just to give you something better than an ordinary elliptical stylus! 🙄
Ah well. Their No.102 record sleeves are very nice at least!😘
@@joerosen5464 Wow and *WOW!* again!
Mr. Joe, you frigg'n ROCK mate! 😲 HOLY SMOKES man, how could I possibly ask for a more thorough and helpful reply. You are the Living $h**z Bro, thank you, thank you, and thank you again! 😁
Awesome. Sure didn't know that about the Lynn Basik. Although I've certainly seen others diss it. I will check that out with the bearings, thanks! It's been a while since I noticed, but it seems like the last time I accidentally kind of bounced it around it SEEMED like it was pretty free floating, but I will definitely check it.
And, Bro, the information about the cartridges is beyond awesome! Thank you again for saving me a $h**load of trouble and expense. I've heard great things about the 540ml, but I've also heard some mention about the tipped up treble. So, it sounds like it's gonna be the 95ml for me! I'll mail you the difference 😊 Quite honestly, I just truly do not want to mess with the Revolver & Lynn Basik setup. I'm not that experienced and believe it or not that old DR500LC amazingly still sounds really good, detailed, and spacious. BUT... at some point I THINK that I would like to try a well reviewed inexpensive TT like the highly spoken of Fluance. And yes, it does come with the underwhelming Ortofon Blue, but with the Dumb$h**proof universal headshell, I should easily be able to plug in a 95ml. That might be interesting because recently I've added an IFI Phono2 (now discontinued and replaced by the IFI Phono3 at twice the price $1000!) and also the all tube Littlebear T11 to try as phono amps instead of the phono sections in my vintage (Read: Ancient!) Discrete Sherwood Newcastle amps that I have running dual/mono, one per side for over 20 years. So far after burning both phono amps in, I must say that I am quite impressed with the sound of both!
Normally, I cannot post a link to pictures of my system and Google's AI usually instantly removes it, but I will try in a reply to this post in order to show you the system I'm dealing with and how it is set up. I've added comments to the lower right of some of the pictures giving more details about my system. Suffice to say, that with the 2 tall multi-driver completely open baffle dipole line arrays, the sound is very spacious but perhaps a tad laid-back. Thus the nice pairing with the very revealing 500LC cartridge.
Hey, I cannot thank you enough my friend for the excellent and most helpful advice. A very well earned and big *'THANK YOU!!!'*
If this post survives, here are some pictures and detailed descriptions about my system for those who are totally bored and have absolutely *NOTHING* else to do! 😎
photos.app.goo.gl/9ja3UKob7tppW4Y38
Great talk - thank you!
For more information about playing mono, styrene and 78 rpm recordings check out:
Joe Collins - Phono Cartridge Basics | Stylus Shape, Tracking Force and Anti-Skate video.
Thanks! I did two dedicated videos, one on mono: czcams.com/video/m6q2JBOiD80/video.html
And one on 78rpm playback: czcams.com/video/_aybfww2nIg/video.html
Bravissimo! Comunque la mia at 95ml, che è microline, è data come 800 ore (!) di riproduzione...quindi come durata (perlomeno sulla carta audiotechnica) è notevole. Grande tracking...e pure grande raccolta di polvere e sporco dai dischi che pur sembrano puliti :D
Grazie! Mi viene da dire appunto, 800 ore sono pochine il resto delle testine di qualità va dalle 1500 alle 2000 ore. Però sono 800 ore al top!
@@anadialog appero'! Ho giradischi da 30 anni ma non ho mai approfondito il discorso durata...sara' che usando spesso stanton, shure e ortofon da 80\100 euro non mi ponevo la questione...Comunque davvero grande testina la At95ml....e' vero che una 680 v3 con stilo elittico, sulla musica piu' clubbosa e piena di basse (hip hop, dance, disco ecc) da forse piu' "emozioni", seppur meno dettaglio sicuramente; ma come "dettaglio" beh la piccola besta rossa e' stato un salto in avanti notevole: vinili che "conosco" da sempre, ora sembrano proprio "differenti"....potendone apprezzare molto di piu' le piccole sfumature (panpottaggio, profondita' ecc) sembrano davvero piu' "ricchi".
Interesting stuff! I wonder why Ortofon chose a nude shibata for it's top of the Cadenza line, Cadenza black. I think it sounds fantastic but as you said, it's more the sum of the parts than the stylus alone. Any insight on this choice?
Because it is an excellent cut and more durable!
Theres people who buy 500 dollar pressings and wash them after every play on 500 dollar styli that makes sense, but buyng VG or VG + records and running them through line contact is insane. So conical and elliptical is very good for regular folks who blow on records to clean them, just need to be replaced often.
Great informative video, liked! Now, sorry for my dumb questions: Why didn't they make reading styluses having the same shape as recording stylus? Wouldn't this assure that (almost) entire musical information engraved into the grooves is gathered and then played to our ears?
Thanks! Well they are actually very similar but one has to cut lacquer one has to read vinyl. The tangential type of reading would bring the playback closer to the cutting process but that type of arm/tracking is quite expensive and has some drawbacks
Great video as usual. Can you please tell me if you can remember, how many hours until your Dynavector DV-20X2 stylus needed replacing, since it's a micro ridge. And what headshell did you use with that cartridge on your Technics turntable? Any reply will be much appreciated. Thanks.
Well my Dynavector is still nice and healthy. That diamond stylus is sure hard! So can't reply on that. The best headshell for the Technics was the Orsonic 101b. The real ones are vintage but Chinese replicas are pretty good IMO.
Just my opinion of course but I've always kept a conical stylus around for worn records sometimes hearing less detail especially for beat up records can be a good thing.
That is an excellent way to get the best out of them, grooves have a conical ware in old and used records plus you also get less surface noise!
plz make a video on portable hifi audio setup with best bang for the buck speaker, player and headphones
Own a Pickering XV-15 /757s StereoHedron (NOS) . I just love the sound from that. Have a 625 stylus to, it's good. But 757s is so much better.
Great stuff! Congrats!
The Steriohedron had also been my favorite too . How on earth can it be replaced? When I couldn't get a new one I was talked into a 680 EL II for my Stanton and found that to be very good sounding (Yeah it takes a good 3 grams to do it) . I think it actually sounds better than any of the .0002×.0007 ellipticals. So we're do I find a .0004 × .0007 elliptical for the 680. I really need to save that EL II before I ware it out. Maybe... should I consider a hypereliptical? I've got a 681 too really can't hear a difference anymore. The thing about them is they are the moving iron type. Sorta noticed all the cartridges I like are moving iron. Yeah my Acutex and Empire. Oh and the Grato.
Have you ever touched on the different cartridge generating mechanisms? Most know about moving magnet, and moving coils, but few are aware of moving iron designs, such as Grado and ADC. Lower moving mass like a moving coil, but much higher output like a moving magnet.
I haven't because there are loads of videos out there on the topic. Well, moving Iron is actually quite popular if you are an audiophile. Perhaps fewer people know about the Moving Micro Cross type. Maybe in the future I will do a video on this.
@@anadialog There is also the strain gauge type.
Exactly!
Good video
Why Denon 103r which is conical consider as one of the best cartridges?
And personal wish could you please make the same video about r2r heads
No info published
Maybe there is no big difference in r2r heads?
Good point, which proves my last statement. It's the entire cartridge that makes good sound, not the stylus!
Nevertheless, the Denon has its force also in its low cost. At higher levels things change quite a bit. On the other hand there are 103 mods that bring the cart to that level.
Heads have some differences but they are not that typologiesed. In any case it's a good topic for the feature! Thanks!
What about using the Shibata needle in a MARANTZ TT143 or a REVOX B975,
What would you recommend for Yamaha GT-5000 with short straight arm? No offset angle is offered. The stylus would have a bigger angles with the grooves vs longer tonearms. With this said, is the conical stylus better than shibata, elliptical, or line contact?
IMO conical is a great tracker and offers regardless the tonearm a warm, engaging sound BUT not holographic, rather flat with low quality transients and timber. Therefore I prefer a line contact or other refined styli.
It's totally like listening to Christoph Waltz. 😅 My good man.
😆
Did RCA not use a Microridge stylus in their CES Selectavision player you it might have had a conductive stripe to allow it to read the signal out of the grooves that would after processing and decoding produce the sound and video signals that would be sent to your TV.
12:56
life span of microcline (1000 hours) stylus is 3 times HIGHER, than an elliptical (300 hours) stylus, because of 3 times less pressure.
next text from audio-technica site:
Every cartridge diamond stylus becomes worn after a period of play.
Around 500 hours for a conical stylus, 300 hours for an Elliptical stylus, 1000 hours for a Microlinear stylus, and 800 hours for a Shibata stylus.
Yes, tracking force is part of the game, absolutely, but also design. AT is indicating their carts and their specs, which are obviouslyow to sell more, they are not a fixed law. It really depends from a long series of things, tracking force, antiskating, proper allignment, types of records, shape, etc.
@@anadialog same tracking force 2gr and 3 times LESS specific pressure per unit area still leave doubts?
really?
@@igorkoch7291 I would say, as argued here before, that Micro type styli last roughly as long as Line Contacts in general. EVERY stylus, should be replaced around the 500 - 1000 hour mark and both of those roughly reach those figures without issue.
@@leon9021 agree.
Hello Guido,
I am a bit late commenting on your video for CZcams standards.
I really enjoyed this summary of different styluses. And this brings me to a question I have and that I am in search of somebody who could shed some light on. Yamaha makes a high end turntable the GT5000 (on their website) and it's 8" completely straight tone arm flies in the face of everything that is generally believed to be important for a tone arm. What do you make of this? And also I think for it's unique design, this turntable could be possible one of the most interesting pieces of audio gear to review. It would be great if you would be interested and had the ability to do that. (The British Audiophile recently told his audience that he has a good contact with Yamaha. And at the same time he does not care for turntables. So perhaps he is willing to help...)
Quite similar if you think to my Kuzma I just reviewed even though I am not a true reviewer, that is not the main topic of my channel just one of the topics and usually I review what I own. In any case I will keep my eyes open!
Great explanation ✌
I'm sure you have already mentioned this before,
- but what is your main cartridge?
And do you also use the re-tipping service by Torlai Roberto?
Only 400 € for an Ogura cantilever + nude fine-line.
I'm asking since he's pretty popular and based in Italy.
I'm very worried about sending my Blackbird to a foreign country 🙈
I currently have a Kiseki Purple Heart and the Pure Fidelity Stratos I recently reviewed. Great stuff. I once sent my Lyra Dorian to Torlai because the catilever got bent and probably had damage inside but in that case he didn't bring back the original sound and was quite expensive.
@@anadialog
wow man you're rocking the fancy stuff !!! 🙈
I'll check out the review 😯
It doesn't come as a surprise that the sound changed after a repair, getting the exact same parameters twice (even if using same materials) to me seems impossible.
Also you yourself have to re-align the cart on the headshell again..! And I'm very OCD with my mintLP Best tractor and microscoped alignment..!!
You can never achieve the same alignment twice, the sound will always change, and that upsets me and my OCD 😂
Just curious, if the shibata style is the pinnacle of listening to all kinds of music or is there a possibility that different needle types can bring out the best for different types of records? Like pressing, kind of music and how it was recorded etc...
Good question. Actually you should be using a quality conical stylus for original releases prior to 1984. Since afteebyhat date they started to use superfineline styli for quality control.
@@anadialog Thanks. I have an Sumiko Olympia, Nagaoka MP 110 and Audio Technica VM 95. Was thinking about buying a Shibata stylus.
@ANA[DIA]LOG Nah. I have a microridge for even my original pre 1984 albums, and it does wonders.
Hi, Guido. I've been watching your videos for some years now. So I'm aware that you also listen to CDs, reel to reel, tapes.... Well, lately I'm having some doubts about an issue concerning CDs that you may know the answer. The deal is: when it comes to vinyl, the quality may vary from different plants in the same country, pressings from different countries and even pressings from the same plant in different years. (I'm not including reissues and what have you, but only the same issue/edition). For instance; an original 91 USA pressing of Nevermind may sound different from a 91 copy from Germany, Italy, Brazil and so on. We know the reasons for that, that's ok. But I never thought that theses differences would happen to CDs. I always thought that a 91 USA CD of Nevermind would sound exactly the same as a German, Italian, Brazilian CD. And not only that, but that an original 91 CD would have the exact same quality of a reissue from 94 or 97 (besides remastering editions). For me digital files/CDs were passed around countries with no interference whatsoever. Only the quality of the booklet would vary, not the sound. Any ideia? Thanx for the videos.
Hi Rodrigo, for what I know in some cases CDs are produced in the country of production starting from their production master copy. That already changes the sound signature, plus the tape recorder, and the converter will all introduce sonic changes.
@@anadialog Thanx for the answer. I always thought that CD (re)production had not tapes/master copies involved. That one country received a CD from the artist original country and just made copies of it.
Later on yes, but until mid 90's not so often...
Very interesting video for me as I am looking at Audio Technicas VM95 stylus as they fit my Linn K9 cartridge. The Shibata is more expensive than the Microline version so I thought that would be the better one but it seems that you are saying the Microline is the best, is that correct?
It is but it will last less than the Shibata
Yes the MicroLine is better at tracking (95ML). The reason why the Shibata (95SH) is more expensive is because they are sourcing the shape from elsewhere as I understand it.
@@anadialog Again, I do not believe this to be the case as Shibatas should be replaced around the same time the Micro type will if not sooner. Its more gradual wear but both are unacceptably worn after 500 - 1000 hours I believe.
There is a paratrace available for the k9
Audio-Technica states that MicroLine stylus' life span is 1000 hours while Shibata and Special Line Contact - 800 hours.
Which one is your favourite stylus please? Brand and model? 😄👍
It would be presumptuous to claim that. I have tried very few in my life compared to what is out there. Let's just say that soon I will review something that truly blew my mind of of the water...finally!
Hi are straight arm are good to listen to record using the S shape concorde cartridge needle i.just want to know how you feel about straight arm turntable
They have both pros and cons. In the end they are both excellent, nobody wins. Engineering is more important, how the tonearm is built!
@@anadialog thank you so much 👍😎
What's a Bi radial stylus then ? I have an Audio Technica AT450. Is it any good ? How does it compare to most others ??
It’s between the spherical and the elliptical and in reality quite similar if not identical to the elliptical
Nasty head bump, did the Mrs odject to the new Kuzma??
:)
😆 no, but for the amp I am trying out, sort of...
@@anadialog Then i suggest first you should go for a helmet, then the amp. :)
🤣
Which cartridge did you choose instead of lyra kleos?
Upcoming...stay tuned!
What stylus is used for mono records and stereo vinyl records?
Potentially any type. The difference is in the cut, not the material. In other words, mono needs a specific stylus cut. In any case the typical shapes are spherical or elliptical since they are used with older records.
I have a Coral MC 82 that I bought for my Rega Planar 2 about 20 years ago. Van den hul stylus. Sounds fine. Is it still legit?
Woah! How much music do you listen to usually? Wait, but the stylus is more recent right?
@@anadialog Some years ago it was quite a lot. Not so much lately as I use another turntable.
Hello Guido, and everyone. Could someone name few "line" type of MC cartridges not expensive maybe up to 600 , if there are any, Thank you
Thank you for this very detailed video, but I'm a little confused about one thing.
You say that the Microline stylus, or whatever they call them, degray very quickly, but Audio Technica says that their Microline have a life span of 800 hours, which impressive if you consider that every other stylus in their line has 300 hours.
Am I missing something here or you just made a mistake?
Not very quickly just quicker than the rest. If we are talking diamond both 300 and 800 seem quite low. A decent cart with the proper tracking force can at least go double or triple that. Maybe they intend when the degradation start but again it seem very low to me. We would all be buying new styli/carts every 6 months or so and that is not the case.
La Goldring G1042 indica come stilo Gyger S, a quale famiglia apparterrebbe?! Dopo prove di ascolto sul mio technics 1210 GR supera la Nagaoka MP-500 :-O
È una Fritz Geiger (particolare), quindi tra le microridge
Are "MicroLine" and "MicroLinear" the same exact thing ?
I believe so
There are not azimuth optimization service in all Sicily :( I need to buy the software and the gear to do it by myself on my Kuzma), watch a shame .
Great topic, but you are incorrect at the end, Micro type styli last longer than Line Contacts. The sound shifts faster once it is worn out, but it takes longer to get there.
Peter Ledermanns minimum figures:
Spherical / Conical - 150hrs
Elliptical - 250hrs
Shibata/Line contact - 400hrs
SAS/MicroRidge - 500hrs
Hi Leon, not really. You got mixedup. Those are values related to how long styli keep 15Khz performace. In that case Microridge/SAS/microline win, but after a while they start to wear out much faster than the others having a lower number of hours overall. It is also logic if you think about it. A protruding line is more subject to wear than a large surface. In fact Peter Ledermanns himself says this here: czcams.com/video/eltkbgtr4O4/video.html at 2:20 . In fact those hours you are indicating would be kind of short for all cartrdiges. Fortunately they last longer than that!
I own a Soundsmith. I called them to see when they recommend sending it in for evaluation and reworking. They will return a cartridge to like new for 20% of the original price. They told me 1000 to 1200 hrs use for my Zephyr MK III.
@@anadialog Yes these are the minimum figures, but the ridge lasts longer than the contact points for lesser styli.
I would not use any stylus for longer than 500 - 1000 hours and Micro types reach these figures just fine. Some will choose to use their styli for longer, some even play conicals for thousands of hours, but this is unreasonable in my book and any stylus should be replaced when this 15KHz standard starts to heavily distort.
There are extensive threads on the topic where old Shure, Jico and Audio Technics papers are discussed, microscope pictures taken after hour intervals and the safe boundary is the 500 - 1000 hour mark even for the top of the line profiles.
So I would ultimately not say that you are losing hours with Micro types.
Ok, now you are diving in opinions. I cited your own source who clearly says that they have a fast wear after the initial stellar performace as well as many others. So here is my opinion: If I have to buy 2K/3K $ carts with microline that only last 500 hrs then I prefer investing in a great line contact that will offer similar performance for 4 times longer. I had a Lyra Dorian microridge that lasted exactly that, 500hrs, maybe less, what a disappointment...but the sound was great.
@@anadialog Im sorry about your Lyra, I have also had a Paratrace stylus which is similar to Line Contact as you said, and it only lasted 350 hours before distortion was audible on Jazz music.
My Microlines have lasted closer to 1000 hours before, but I can tell you that, according to those papers like the Shure, no stylus will last 4000 hours, its simply math and physics that tell us the diamond material can not hold its shape for this long, even under optimal circumstances. You should replace the Line Contacts at a similar timeframe as the Micro is my point.
Im not sure what causes the difference in hours even with the same shape, maybe sourcing and the quality of the cut plays a factor. So maybe some Line Contacts can last longer than certain Micro types and vice versa but I think in general it averages out to roughly the same amount of hours.
And you dont have to spend so much for a Microline, the VM95ML is only 150$.
You will generally get more detail and tracking ability with the advanced cuttings, but you lose out in other areas, particularly speed, energy and coherence between instruments. The Micro Ridge design has a tendency to separate instruments so much they can sound completely isolated from each other. It is no coincidence that one of the most popular cartridges among "audiophiles" is still the 1962 Denon DL-301, which has a simple conical stylus. On their current top MM cartridge, Otofon now uses a Shibata stylus instead of the highly advanced Friz Geiger design. Some fans of Classical music sternly believe in going no further up the "stylus ladder" than the elliptical design for these reasons. Also, to make any sense of the advanced designs at all, you need increasingly higher quality equipment in regard to turntable, tonearm, cables and phono stage. To put an expensive Nagaoka MP500 on a low budget DJ deck, as some people do, is like putting Formula 1 wheels on a Fiat 126.
I own both the MP200 and Mp500.
The larger elliptical of the mp200 is much more forgiving with your alignment and VTA, though I still spend just as much time painstakingly calibrating it to get every last ounce of fidelity from it.
The Mp500 with its nude fine-line, is less forgiving, sounds much more detailed but also much more susceptible to misalignment, if it's perfectly dialed in by experienced users it is the better cart.
But I do understand the idea that elliptical is better, it's smoother on the ears, and it's still a realistic amount of details - and I completely agree that it all blends together in a good way.
The advanced styli separates things in a way where everything is crystal clear and stands on it's own. Which can also be impressive.
Right now I'm using a Sumiko Blackbird, much more expensive than MP500.
It bettered the finely aligned MP500 right out the gate, even during early stages of being dialed in.
That's B.S. The more advanced shapes have more speed and energy and coherence than any lesser stylus could possibly manage. That's just fact.
@@bkkersey93 while i agree with you, i think what he means is - styli with more advanced shapes like micro ridges are almost like 2way system transducers, where the high frequency elements are tracked by a specific ridge of the stylus.
A cart like the lomc Denon DL-103 with it's conical stylus produces a very homogenous/ coherent sound, where the high frequency elements blends well with the overall sound which is inherent with these sphericals.
I've heard Ortofon Anna Diamond - the best there is, which was carefully aligned and set up by industry leaders at Munich high-end convention - and yes obviously that sounds much better and doesn't lack any homogeny or coherence.
I think most of the problem is that people with lesser tables, tonearms and lack of ability to set up a cart goes for advanced stylus shapes, with mixed results.
Conical tips don’t suffer from pinch effect of the grove nearer the run out grove
Actually the elliptical stylus was invented to overcome this effect that affects mainly conical styli
I've always wondered how a diamond stylus can wear out from vinyl. Diamonds are the hardest substances known to mankind, so how could vinyl, which is very soft, wear them out?
Everything wears out after enough amount of time. But you are right, it does not seem possible...but it is! It obviously depends also on the adopted tracking force but the answer is around 1000/2000 hours of playback consume a good part of the stylus, which is very very small...that is also important to know.
Have you every been to a cliff and rock covered beach before? Ever notice how the big stones you can sit and relax on near the water are typically really smooth and not rough like sandpaper. Thats because the water grinds the stone over the years and wear them down smoothly. Same with diamonds on vinyl, nothing lasts forever and any physical interaction causes wear on some level.
Ciao, riesci ad attivare i sottotitoli? Grazie
1:43 our cömpact täyp hi$tör€yy
We all know that the perfect stylus would have the shape off the cutter head. But if we have this, we would cut a groove in a groove.
Indeed! 😄
The perfect groove tracker is the stylus that cut the groove. And we all know we can't have that one 😋
There is no such thing as a perfect groove tracker. And the better the stylus gets the more lasertechnology comes into play in development….then you finally know the next step …the next level…
In fact we are constantly in search!
so many details, - till it becomes "orthodox" nearly !
You said micro line only is good for shirt time audio technica says they should be good for 1000 hours do you think this is incorrect
1000 hours IS a short time! I think we can even go beyond that if the tracking force isn't above 2g
bonded diamonds are glued. nude, do not use adhesive, conical generally pick up more surface noise than elliptical. you have a lot of misinformation going in this video!
Humm, I think you have watched the video with little attention, plus I see editing...not sure enough? I said that bonded and tipped diamonds are mounted on metal shanks. I did not specify how, but no mistake there my fried. Now I see that you are mistaken becuse nude diamonds may be indeed glued, not always, in fact Isaid USUALLY. For both types check this PDF from Ortofon. I think we can agree that they are a reference: www.ortofon.com/media/14912/everything_you_need_to_know_about_styli_types.pdf
For the noise I never compared one to another, I just said that conical has less contact so it has less surface noise in general, because it is touchig les part of the record. That is a fact.
Learn how to enunciate the different terms!
I am mainly Italian so clearly I will never be perfect in that sense.